Wilt claims Jordan would have been on the bench in the 60's, "would be crushed"

[TheMarkMadsen]

skip to 6:30

this dude is delusional, also claims Shaq's game wouldn't have translated to the 60's.

Dude sound so insecure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIkonXt2VI

[Roundball_Rock]

Every player thinks his era>>>subsequent eras. :lol The fact is great players would be great in any era.

[warriorfan]

skip to 6:30

this dude is delusional, also claims Shaq's game wouldn't have translated to the 60's.

Dude sound so insecure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIkonXt2VI



how ironic

[LoneyROY7]

Dude was legit delusional.

[JohnFreeman]

IQ as high as his freethrow percentage

[navy]

He's kinda right about Shaq. The game wasnt nearly as physical back in the 60s so Shaq would presumably get called for lots of fouls. But that depends on the refs I guess.

Jordan would dominate the 60s guards. Who were probably the weakest out of any era for guards.

[Prometheus]

:biggums:

Damn. We know players always condescend to descendant eras, but this is pretty insane.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Every player thinks his era>>>subsequent eras. :lol The fact is great players would be great in any era.

This. :applause:

Every player thinks that his era was better/tougher and that modern players wouldn't be able to hack it...it's all insecurity.

[warriorfan]

Jordan would do well he would be down to fight when the time came.

[dubeta]

Jordan stans shouldnt get defensive at this, Jordan has said similar things about LeBron, like when LeBron was drafted in 2003 Jordan said something on the lines on LeBron would be on of the lower end of SFs in the entire league and stuff like that

[AirBourne92]

inb4 camp lazlo lazarus shows up

[Marchesk]

:biggums:

Damn. We know players always condescend to descendant eras, but this is pretty insane.

Not sure if it's as bad as what the Iceman had to say in response to Klay Thompson breaking his 1 quarter scoring record.

[warriorfan]

Not sure if it's as bad as what the Iceman had to say in response to Klay Thompson breaking his 1 quarter scoring record.


What did he say?

[Marchesk]

What did he say?

https://youtu.be/kuXIpxoMYtc

Some gems:

"I say he didn't break my record."

"The three point is the worst shot in basketball."

"Why would you want to shoot a 40% shot when you can shoot a 50% shot inside the two point line?"

He starts sounding a little bit more reasonable after a while, but that first part was funny.

[G0ATbe]

Every grandpa thinks the eras that come after theirs are weak in comparison. Not surprised. Kobe,Kareem, and maybe even Jordan would all be 50ppg+ scorers in the 60s.

[SouBeachTalents]

https://youtu.be/kuXIpxoMYtc

Some gems:

"I say he didn't break my record."

"The three point is the worst shot in basketball."

"Why would you want to shoot a 40% shot when you can shoot a 50% shot inside the two point line?"

He starts sounding a little bit more reasonable after a while, but that first part was funny.

Salty

[inclinerator]

lol at all those tall tales

[dubeta]

And people try and argue he'll be better than Javale McGee in today's league because he was more 'intelligent' :oldlol:

[Marchesk]

And people try and argue he'll be better than Javale McGee in today's league because he was more 'intelligent' :oldlol:

Wilt wasn't stupid. He was being salty because Jordan was getting GOAT love. And Wilt had a legendary persona to keep up.

To be fair to some of the salty, bitter old timers, the sports media does tend to ignore their accomplishments and focus on marketing the most recent stars as the best, breaking records based on cutting off at a certain year, and so forth.

[oh the horror]

And people try and argue he'll be better than Javale McGee in today's league because he was more 'intelligent' :oldlol:




The real shit that makes you sound stupid as hell is that you believe Javale McGee would be good in any era.

[warriorfan]

Yes, JaVale Mcgee has the same BBIQ as a player who had the most assists in the league for a season.


:facepalm

[The_Pharcyde]

The real shit that makes you sound stupid as hell is that you believe Javale McGee would be good in any era.


Guy is a hack

Who cares what he has to say, just trying to get people upset for whatever reason(psychological issues probably)

[scandisk_]

Wilt prolly couldn't say that in front of Michael :roll:

Salty, delusional or not that's just Wilt being competitive. You show little to no love to a threat :applause: ALPHA AS PHUCK!

[plowking]

The real shit that makes you sound stupid as hell is that you believe Javale McGee would be good in any era.

You think he wouldn't be a great player in the 50's and 60's? Seriously?

What other athlete outside of Wilt would have been comparable to 7 foot McGee with his jumping ability and length?

[jstern]

I started watching the interview from the beginning, before the specific time that the OP gave, and Wilt completely complimented Michael. He said that Michael was a special kind of player that could play in any era. A rare specimen, that every man in the NBA should give 10% of their salary too. And then he starts goofing around about how if he played in his era, Michael could do whatever he wants, just don't come to where the big men are, the OP puts in the title that Michael Jordan would have been a bench warmer, and all you guys just start talking out of your behinds.

[iamgine]

Wilt is known for his hyperbolic statements. It's not meant to be taken literally.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I started watching the interview from the beginning, before the specific time that the OP gave, and Wilt completely complimented Michael. He said that Michael was a special kind of player that could play in any era. A rare specimen, that every man in the NBA should give 10% of their salary too. And then he starts goofing around about how if he played in his era, Michael could do whatever he wants, just don't come to where the big men are, the OP puts in the title that Michael Jordan would have been a bench warmer, and all you guys just start talking out of your behinds.

because thats exactly what he said, it was 1997, he wasn't going to just begin bashing Jordan immediatly after being asked about him..

but after 20 seconds of talking about jordan his true feelings come out, begins to talk about how Jordan wouldn't be able to finish at the rim in the 60's because they would lay him out, talks about how he would be on the bench, basically describes Jordans game as circus show hyped up by the media

[jstern]

Wilt is known for his hyperbolic statements. It's not meant to be taken literally.

All that he simply said, after saying things like every player should give Jordan 10% of their salary, was that the fans and era were different, and that his own coach would bench him, and opposing fans would turn against him, if he tried to do his fancy dunks, layups, etc. But that the opposite was the truth in that current 1990s era.

[jstern]

because thats exactly what he said, it was 1997, he wasn't going to just begin bashing Jordan immediatly after being asked about him..

but after 20 seconds of talking about jordan his true feelings come out, begins to talk about how Jordan wouldn't be able to finish at the rim in the 60's because they would lay him out, talks about how he would be on the bench, basically describes Jordans game as circus show hyped up by the media

You people have low comprehension, that gets colored by what you want to hear. Doesn't even take Wilt's personality into account, and would just rather take an out of context quote literally.

I mean, what exactly do you want Wilt, an ultra competitive, big talker to say? That Jordan would dunk on his ass?

[TheMarkMadsen]

All that he simply said, after saying things like every player should give them 10% of their salary, was that the fans and era were different, and that his own coach would bench him, and opposing fans would turn against him, if he tried to do his fancy dunks, layups, etc. But that the opposite was the truth in that current 1990s era.

great example of hearing what you want to hear.

he says that when the Bulls are up 90 and MJ is out there doing his 360 dunks he would have been benched.. which is just clearly him being salty and taking low key shots at Jordan by making up some bull shit hypothetical just so he could diss him

"you think he would be crushed"

"I don't think, I know"

Wilt goes on to say that Jordan wouldn't be able to pull off his moves in the 60's..

"so you're saying Jordan would have been on the bench the whole time"

"absolutly"

try and spin it as many ways as you want, but Wilt is clearly salty and delusional with the way he talks about the NBA compared to his days

[TheMarkMadsen]

You people have low comprehension, that gets colored by what you want to hear. Doesn't even take Wilt's personality into account, and would just rather take an out of context quote literally.

I mean, what exactly do you want Wilt, an ultra competitive, big talker to say? That Jordan would dunk on his ass?


ultra competitive and Wilt don't belong in the same sentence.

and I would expect him to give props to Jordan and promptly STFU after giving him his praise instead of having to throw out the "he wouldn't be shit in my era" nonsense

[sd3035]

Wilt would be flippin burgers in this era

[Smoke117]

Damn if Jordan is riding the pine, Kobe must be the towel boy.

[jstern]

great example of hearing what you want to hear.

he says that when the Bulls are up 90 and MJ is out there doing his 360 dunks he would have been benched.. which is just clearly him being salty and taking low key shots at Jordan by making up some bull shit hypothetical just so he could diss him

"you think he would be crushed"

"I don't think, I know"

Wilt goes on to say that Jordan wouldn't be able to pull off his moves in the 60's..

"so you're saying Jordan would have been on the bench the whole time"

"absolutly"

try and spin it as many ways as you want, but Wilt is clearly salty and delusional with the way he talks about the NBA compared to his days

How is saying that the fans in the 60s would not have appreciated it, unlike the fans in the 90s means that Wilt was being salty? Is what he saying not true? It's not even a put down. So how is he saying something that's true, after lathering Jordan's ass, equal Wilt being salty.

How is Wilt saying that Jordan for lack of a better word would dominate in any era = him being salty. Wilt has a competitive, joking personality, that players like him, Kobe have, where there's nothing they can't do, yet you want him to say that Jordan would dunk on his face, over and over, and if he doesn't it means that he's being salty.

[iamgine]

Wilt was saying MJ's fancy moves would've been taken as an insult back then. Therefore opponents would do very hard fouls on Jordan if he keep doing it and even his own coach and fans would hate those moves therefore benching him.

Like today if you keep scoring at end of an already decided game it would be taken as an insult.

[warriorfan]

Wilt was saying MJ's fancy moves would've been taken as an insult back then. Therefore opponents would do very hard fouls on Jordan if he keep doing it and even his own coach and fans would hate those moves therefore benching him.

Like today if you keep scoring at end of an already decided game it would be taken as an insult.


This. If you showboated you would get undercut midair, an elbow directly into your nose, or just a plain old sucker punch. Fighting was part of the game.

[jstern]

ultra competitive and Wilt don't belong in the same sentence.

and I would expect him to give props to Jordan and promptly STFU after giving him his praise instead of having to throw out the "he wouldn't be shit in my era" nonsense

No, you want Wilt to act that way, but that doesn't mean he should. Is that how things run in your house, where there's a hierarchy, and anyone under you must not dare show any signs of being an equal person, or show any confidence? And Wilt said that Jordan would be great in any era, including his.

[Asukal]

Wilt was always insecure, what else is new? :confusedshrug:

A guy talking shit out of his ass has small ***** syndrome. That's what wilt was. Mountain lions and 20k women...... all irrelevant bullshit to divert attention from his failures on the court. :facepalm

[sd3035]

Wilt was always insecure, what else is new? :confusedshrug:

A guy talking shit out of his ass has small ***** syndrome. That's what wilt was. Mountain lions and 20k women...... all irrelevant bullshit to divert attention from his failures on the court. :facepalm

True, just like his strength claims. He was a scrawny wimp who preferred the company of men

[aj1987]

https://youtu.be/kuXIpxoMYtc

Some gems:

"I say he didn't break my record."

"The three point is the worst shot in basketball."

"Why would you want to shoot a 40% shot when you can shoot a 50% shot inside the two point line?"

He starts sounding a little bit more reasonable after a while, but that first part was funny.
10 shot sample:

10*0.40*3 = 12
10*0.50*2 = 10

He wasn't salty. He was just being an idiot.

[Dr.J4ever]

See, this is what I'm saying we should guard against.

It's not just players that say this kind of stuff, it's the fans too. Usually, for fans, the era when they first started liking basketball or watching it, or began idolizing a superstar, that's the era that was the best ever.

If you care about basketball more than your stan tendencies, you would be more objective and see basketball for what it really is. You would see how basketball has evolved since your youth. Sounds simple, but very difficult for many people to do, especially the stans.

[3ball]

basketball has evolved since your youth.


see, this is that dumb, think-like-everyone-else type thinking that is erroneous.

most people erroneously think everything evolves.. not true - some things DEvolve.

today's game is a great example of that - when man interferes with the rules and artifically changes something, that doesn't constitute evolving.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan

Okay.

[deja vu]

So people in the 60s don't like players doing fancy dunks and layups? So they prefer boring shit during those times?

If someone did a windmill dunk back then he would've been lynched. :roll:

[Dr.J4ever]

see, this is that dumb, think-like-everyone-else type thinking that is erroneous.

most people erroneously think everything evolves.. not true - some things DEvolve.

today's game is a great example of that - when man interferes with the rules and artifically changes something, that doesn't constitute evolving.

"Artificially changes"? Basketball is not a game of nature. It's artificial. That's it's primary nature. It's a game created by man, and man changes the game to suit it's tastes for business reasons. It was true then. It is true now.

When man changes the rules, yes the game changes. That's the main point. The game is different today, because man changes the rules.

Don't be so defensive.

[MiseryCityTexas]

He's kinda right about Shaq. The game wasnt nearly as physical back in the 60s so Shaq would presumably get called for lots of fouls. But that depends on the refs I guess.

Jordan would dominate the 60s guards. Who were probably the weakest out of any era for guards.

Jordan and Kobe would destroy Gail Goodrich,Sam Jones, Hal Greer, Don Ohl

[3ball]

man changes the game to suit it's tastes for business reasons.

When man changes the rules, yes the game changes. That's the main point. The game is different today, because man changes the rules.


http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200

Well apparently, man changed the rules to make post scoring easier - we finally have definitive statistical proof that post scoring is easier than ever today: the NBA's new player-tracking data (linked above) shows that Al Jefferson posts up a super-high percentage of the time - just like the bigs in previous eras - and yet he's a league-leader at 0.97 PPP on the post.

Accordingly, we know that the following 11 players from 1996 would be > 0.97 PPP in today's game, and therefore bump Al Jefferson down to at least #11, probably further:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - he'd be the best all-round big in today's game)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And probably Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.

The league changed the rules in 2005 to increase the percentages on ball movement and dribble penetration, which have surpassed post-ups in some spots.. But Al Jefferson is proof that the percentages on post-ups themselves hasn't diminished at all - infact, they've probably increased, along with everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).
.

[Dr.J4ever]

http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200

Well apparently, man changed the rules to make post scoring easier - we finally have definitive statistical proof that post scoring is easier than ever today: the NBA's new player-tracking data (linked above) shows that Al Jefferson posts up a super-high percentage of the time - just like the bigs in previous eras - and yet he's a league-leader at 0.97 PPP on the post.

Accordingly, we know that the following 11 players from 1996 would be > 0.97 PPP in today's game, and therefore bump Al Jefferson down to at least #11, probably further:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - he'd be the best all-round big in today's game)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And probably Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.

The league changed the rules in 2005 to increase the percentages on ball movement and dribble penetration, which have surpassed post-ups in some spots.. But Al Jefferson is proof that the percentages on post-ups themselves hasn't diminished at all - infact, they've probably increased, along with everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html).
.

There's no question that bigs today can't post up as well as bigs from the 90s. I think the reason for that is a combination of rules today, and because bigs today are focused on different things like the ability to defend the pick and roll and switch over to the guard on the perimeter, and shoot the 3 to create the all important spacing necessary to compete at a high level in today's game. The modern game has forced GMs to look for flexibility in bigs to do all these things, and post up skills have been sacrificed as a result.

This is why today in Phlly we are debating the ability of Noel to play with Embiid on offense and defense. Can Noel step out to guard stretch 4s? Can Embiid co-exist with Noel on offense due to spacing?

See, in the past having twin towers would always be a great thing, and there would be no questions as to their viability, but today it's more complicated and delicate. It can be made to work in special circumstances and with great effort, and even Pop had to sit Splitter in game 3 last year vs. the thunder, if you recall, in favor of Diaw, to create more spacing and even more shooting.

Again, the main point is the game is different. Some things done in the past would not be as efficient today, and some things done today would not work so well in the past.

The game has evolved. Whether it's better is really a matter of taste and opinion, but I happen to think players are more athletic overall today, and shooting from the perimeter has improved too. For post play and iso play, I would give the nod to the 80s and 90s.

[3ball]

bigs today are focused on different things like the ability to defend the pick and roll and switch over to the guard on the perimeter


These are excuses - everything you said above is a defensive function that has no bearing on a big man's offensive function and whether he gets to post up or not.

Btw, it seems like you don't understand WHY big men have to defend guards on the perimeter in today's game - it's because teams lure big men away from the rim by using screen roll offenses and starting them further out on the floor than previous eras.. Defending high screen rolls prevents big men from contesting at the rim where they have the advantage - instead, they are forced to contest quicker guards on the perimeter, where they are at a big disadvantage.. And it's a ballhandler's dream - today's game lets them face big men on the perimeter more than ever before, and accordingly, they face less rim protection than ever before.

Today's floor-spreading offenses aren't the only thing weakening defenses by taking bigs away from the rim - the paint-camping ban also prevents big men from contesting at the rim as often.. Obviously, if a coach had the option of camping their big men in the paint or having them defend guards on the perimeter, they would choose paint-camping - this is elementary.. It's been long-proven that camping a big man under the rim allows the team to defend the floor more evenly and maximizes a team's overall defensive capability.
.

[3ball]

There's no question that bigs today can't post up as well as bigs from the 90s. I think the reason for that is a combination of rules today...


You can always resort to the argument that we don't have post-up efficiency stats for prior eras.. But we know that 1.00 PPP is considered excellent for ANY scoring method and that's what high-volume poster Al Jefferson gets in today's game.. Jefferson is a league-leader in post efficiency with 0.97 PPP, even though he would be a 2nd tier big man (non-top 10) in previous eras.

The fact that 2nd tier bigs from previous eras would lead the league today in post PPP flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies... The only reason coaches don't use post-ups as much as before is because floor-spacing and the hand-check ban increased efficiencies on ball movement and dribble penetration, allowing these methods to SURPASS post-ups.. But Al Jefferson scoring 1.00 PPP on the post proves that post efficiencies THEMSELVES haven't diminished at all.

Also, if we are keeping it real, simple logic tells us that today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds rule force defenders to help from further distances on post players.. So even without the Al Jefferson proof, it makes sense that post PPP is higher today than it used to be.. After all, everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) is.
.

[julizaver]

skip to 6:30

this dude is delusional, also claims Shaq's game wouldn't have translated to the 60's.

Dude sound so insecure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIkonXt2VI

Almost every elite past, present athlete had an enormous ego. But from what I heard from that clip Wilt said that Jordan would be benched or crushed in case of showmanship, NOT BECAUSE LACK OF BASKETBALL QUALITIES, SKILLS. In one of his books he claimed that players like Bird, Magic and Jordan could play in any era of basketball.

What he meaned was: Jordan did his flashy dunk and next play there would be a hard foul in retaliation. There was an archive article where Wilt himself said about Johny Kerr (If I remembered correctly) that Kerr could not jump one inch from the floor, BUT YOU DON'T DUNK ON HIM, because of above mentioned reasons.



Crushing like when Jordan try to dunk on Kareem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvo_Saiwsgw

[T_L_P]

Found Laz in the YT comments:

"For those who say that Chamb played against white nobodies and that the league is so much more competitive today, should consider this:

In the early 70's, a 33-35 year old, slower Chamberlain, with bad knees, adeptly handled a 22-24 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - though Kareem was still better than Chamb at that point. At the same time, in the late 80's, a 36-38 year Kareem was dropping 35-40 points against a young Hakeem Olajuwon and other centers. What does it tell you that a young Kareem was having more trouble against an old Chamb than an old Kareem was against a young Olajuwon? It says that an old Chamb would have been very competitive today. And a prime Chamberlain would have dominated practically everyone today"

Dude is insane.

[julizaver]

Jordan and Kobe would destroy Gail Goodrich,Sam Jones, Hal Greer, Don Ohl

Yes, overall the perimeter players from '80s and '90s were better than perimeter players from '60s. But modern day centers could not destroy Wilt for sure - they are smaller and less athletic. And in my opinion there is no center in the history of the game past and present who could destroy prime Wilt Chamberlain. It was long discussed here that early '70s were the Golden era for centers.

[LeBird]

Found Laz in the YT comments:

"For those who say that Chamb played against white nobodies and that the league is so much more competitive today, should consider this:

In the early 70's, a 33-35 year old, slower Chamberlain, with bad knees, adeptly handled a 22-24 Kareem Abdul Jabbar - though Kareem was still better than Chamb at that point. At the same time, in the late 80's, a 36-38 year Kareem was dropping 35-40 points against a young Hakeem Olajuwon and other centers. What does it tell you that a young Kareem was having more trouble against an old Chamb than an old Kareem was against a young Olajuwon? It says that an old Chamb would have been very competitive today. And a prime Chamberlain would have dominated practically everyone today"

Dude is insane.

:biggums: :lol

That aside, anyone who watches that interview and thinks the OP has characterised it correctly is on crack.

Wilt said that in his era you couldn't be a showboat. Not only would opposition players put you on your ass, your own teammates and coach would be against you because of it and you'd be benched for being disrespectful. So if Jordan kept doing that (the showy stuff), he'd be benched for certain in that era.

That's pretty reasonable. He probably is a bit salty that Jordan was being stupidly hyped, but that point in itself is fine.

[Psileas]

Wilt trolling before trolling was considered cool. And catching even "modern era" trolls' feelings. Gotta love it :oldlol:


ultra competitive and Wilt don't belong in the same sentence.

Definition of ignorance. Wilt was trying to win all the time, at everything he did. All his peers admitted this.


and I would expect him to give props to Jordan and promptly STFU after giving him his praise instead of having to throw out the "he wouldn't be shit in my era" nonsense

What you expected is completely irrelevant and exposes your ignorance on Wilt's competitiveness.

[Akhenaten]

Crushing like when Jordan try to dunk on Kareem:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvo_Saiwsgw

So turning your back and cowering = "crushing" :oldlol:

KAJ was fortunate to not have gotten shat upon in that clip

[PistonsFan#21]

I thought it was pretty much a known fact that Wilt is a compulsive liar with a huge ego :confusedshrug: No surprise there.

His claims should not be taken seriously:

"I slept with over 20 000 women"

"Jordan would be a scrub in the 60's"

"I beat a lion with my barehands by throwing him on the other side of the mountain"

"I had a 48 inch vert"

[coin24]

Wilt trolling before trolling was considered cool. And catching even "modern era" trolls' feelings. Gotta love it :oldlol:



Definition of ignorance. Wilt was trying to win all the time, at everything he did. All his peers admitted this.



What you expected is completely irrelevant and exposes your ignorance on Wilt's competitiveness.

Hmm that doesn't sound right, he didn't win too many titles did he?:yaohappy:

[jongib369]

Comprehension isn't a strong point for some of you I guess....Let's put it this way, do you guys think if Shaq was SUPER pissed off at Jordan and wanted to get rough with him, he couldn't?

The man said crushed, as in a bigger dude will CRUSH him.

:biggums:

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wilt made a lot of off the wall claims, and spun his own yarn. All bull shit.

[julizaver]

So turning your back and cowering = "crushing" :oldlol:

KAJ was fortunate to not have gotten shat upon in that clip

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk:

"During the 1940s and '50s, 7-foot center and Olympic Gold Medalist Bob Kurland was dunking regularly during games.Yet defenders viewed the execution of a slam dunk as a personal affront that deserved retribution; thus defenders often intimidated offensive players and thwarted the move. Satch Sanders, a career Boston Celtic from 1960 to 1973, said:

"...in the old days, [defenders] would run under you when you were in the air... ...trying to take people out of games so they couldn't play. It was an unwritten rule..."

I think this is exactly what KAJ did to MJ in that video !!!

[LAZERUSS]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk:

"During the 1940s and '50s, 7-foot center and Olympic Gold Medalist Bob Kurland was dunking regularly during games.Yet defenders viewed the execution of a slam dunk as a personal affront that deserved retribution; thus defenders often intimidated offensive players and thwarted the move. Satch Sanders, a career Boston Celtic from 1960 to 1973, said:

"...in the old days, [defenders] would run under you when you were in the air... ...trying to take people out of games so they couldn't play. It was an unwritten rule..."

I think this is exactly what KAJ did to MJ in that video !!!

:applause: :applause: :applause:

And, as ALWAYS, the idiotic "bashers" completely taking Wilt's comments out of CONTEXT...to of course, further their biased and repeatedly STUPID agendas.

[LAZERUSS]

ultra competitive and Wilt don't belong in the same sentence.

and I would expect him to give props to Jordan and promptly STFU after giving him his praise instead of having to throw out the "he wouldn't be shit in my era" nonsense


Oh of course...after all, there is a long list of players who averaged 45.8 mpg during their regular season career, and then 47.2 mpg over the course of their entire post-season career, right?

BTW...maybe you should take the time to look at the NBA RECORD BOOK, which has his name PLASTERED all over it...including many POST-SEASON records.

:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Hmm that doesn't sound right, he didn't win too many titles did he?:yaohappy:

TEAM game you idiot.

How many titles did MJ win before Pippne and Grant arrived?

Why did a PRIME Kareem win exactly ONE title in his first ten seasons?

How about Bird, playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career, and "only" winning THREE rings...and losing with HCA SEVEN times?

How about Hakeem...with his EIGHT FIRST ROUND exits in his 15 playoff seasons, and only three Finals?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[julizaver]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

And, as ALWAYS, the idiotic "bashers" completely taking Wilt's comments out of CONTEXT...to of course, further their biased and repeatedly STUPID agendas.

They did not bother to watch the video and just comment on thread title.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt would be flippin burgers in this era

Oh of course. After all the NBA is filled with 7-1+ (7-3 in shoes), 290 lb., 7-8 wingspan players with 40" verticals, and with enormous strength and power.

A prime Shaq would be a bum in the current NBA, right?

You won't find 6-7 3/4" players who can barely dunk, putting up 26-12 seasons in the current NBA, right?

Nor 6-9 3/4" centers putting up 24-12 seasons and in only 33 mpg, in the current NBA, right?

[AirFederer]

:lol
I like when Conan says "basketball used to be about team play, now it`s onloy guys showing off" or something to that effect.
Wilt`s response: "Absolutely."


Wait, isn`t Wilt the one who shot 40+ shots per game for full seasons?
:biggums:

[LAZERUSS]

:lol
I like when Conan says "basketball used to be about team play, now it`s onloy guys showing off" or something to that effect.
Wilt`s response: "Absolutely."


Wait, isn`t Wilt the one who shot 40+ shots per game for full seasons?
:biggums:

Well, his COACH asked him to take 40 shots per game? Why? Because he took one look at the pathetic cast of clowns that surrounded Wilt (and who had played horrifically in the '61 playoffs)...and decided that their ONLY hope was for Chamberlain to shoot.

Oh, and then Wilt single-handedly took that same cast of goobers, the core of which was the same last place roster her inherited two years earlier (but now older and worse)..to a game seven, two point loss against the HOF-laden, and 60-20 Celtics in the EDF's.

And a few years later, Chamberlain led a team to a dominating world title with a 24-24-8- .683 stat-line, and on only 14 FGAs per game.

In other words, Wilt did whatever his coach's asked of him, and whatever it took to win.

[Helix]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

And, as ALWAYS, the idiotic "bashers" completely taking Wilt's comments out of CONTEXT...to of course, further their biased and repeatedly STUPID agendas.


The fact is Laz, the Wilt bashing and trolling has gotten way, WAY out of hand on this site. It's gotten so disgusting I don't even bother coming here much anymore. I'm at a loss as to how the people in charge here can continue to allow one of the greatest basketball players that ever lived to be treated like this. I have no problem at all with posters making arguments against Chamberlain as long as they do it with facts and do it without bashing and trolling. But that's not what's going on here. What's going on here is ridiculous.

[LAZERUSS]

The fact is Laz, the Wilt bashing and trolling has gotten way, WAY out of hand on this site. It's gotten so disgusting I don't even bother coming here much anymore. I'm at a loss as to how the people in charge here can continue to allow one of the greatest basketball players that ever lived to be treated like this. I have no problem at all with posters making arguments against Chamberlain as long as they do it with facts and do it without bashing and trolling. But that's not what's going on here. What's going on here is ridiculous.

It is really only a handful of morons that either troll, or they are completely ignorant. But yes, they continually show up in these Wilt topics, and constantly make complete fools of themselves. And yes again, they provide ZERO knowledge or facts to their arguments.

In any case, this forum needs knowledgeable posters like yourself, so please fell free to provide your insight.

[riseagainst]

just from this comment alone, Wilt's all time ranking went down from top 20 all time to barely top 100.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Oh of course...after all, there is a long list of players who averaged 45.8 mpg during their regular season career, and then 47.2 mpg over the course of their entire post-season career, right?

BTW...maybe you should take the time to look at the NBA RECORD BOOK, which has his name PLASTERED all over it...including many POST-SEASON records.

:facepalm

show me the long list of players who are supposed to be GOAT candidate that lost more times than they won in the finals, benched in game 7, and had a losing record in the playoff against their biggest rival?

averaged 45-24 and can't even make the playoffs. Averaged 50 ppg in a reg season but zero 40 ppg playoff series

2/6 Finals record and in the majority of the 60s you only needed one round to make the NBA Finals in an 8-14 team league - had it way easier and still can't get it done.

The worst part about Wilt only winning 2 rings? He only won his second ring because the Willis Reed was injured and didn't play in the 1972 NBA Finals. What happened when Willis Reed did play against Wilt? Wilt ended up with an 0-2 playoff record against Willis in the 1970 and 1973 NBA Finals. HUGE asterisk next to Wilt's 1972 Finals MVP.

Wilt also had a 1-6 playoff record against Bill Russell, and a 1-1 record against inexperienced Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who outscored him in both playoff meetings.

Wilt had a hell of a lot of Hall of Famers on his side - Jerry West, Goodrich, Greer, Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Thurmond, Guy Rodgers, Tom Gola, Chet Walker. His own teammate Jerry West was so good, even when the Lakers lost in 1969, West showed up his teammate Chamberlain by winning the Finals MVP while Wilt choked away the 3-2 lead

- 8 points in Game 6 outscored by old Russell, quit and sat on the bench in Game 7

[AirFederer]

His coach asked him to score 100? No show there :lol


Well, his COACH asked him to take 40 shots per game? Why? Because he took one look at the pathetic cast of clowns that surrounded Wilt (and who had played horrifically in the '61 playoffs)...and decided that their ONLY hope was for Chamberlain to shoot.

Oh, and then Wilt single-handedly took that same cast of goobers, the core of which was the same last place roster her inherited two years earlier (but now older and worse)..to a game seven, two point loss against the HOF-laden, and 60-20 Celtics in the EDF's.

And a few years later, Chamberlain led a team to a dominating world title with a 24-24-8- .683 stat-line, and on only 14 FGAs per game.

In other words, Wilt did whatever his coach's asked of him, and whatever it took to win.

[BigNBAfan]

That big hollow brain of his.... dude wasnt the brightest, explains why he couldn't shine under the spotlight aka playoffs.

[julizaver]

show me the long list of players who are supposed to be GOAT candidate that lost more times than they won in the finals, benched in game 7, and had a losing record in the playoff against their biggest rival?

averaged 45-24 and can't even make the playoffs. Averaged 50 ppg in a reg season but zero 40 ppg playoff series

2/6 Finals record and in the majority of the 60s you only needed one round to make the NBA Finals in an 8-14 team league - had it way easier and still can't get it done.

The worst part about Wilt only winning 2 rings? He only won his second ring because the Willis Reed was injured and didn't play in the 1972 NBA Finals. What happened when Willis Reed did play against Wilt? Wilt ended up with an 0-2 playoff record against Willis in the 1970 and 1973 NBA Finals. HUGE asterisk next to Wilt's 1972 Finals MVP.

Wilt also had a 1-6 playoff record against Bill Russell, and a 1-1 record against inexperienced Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who outscored him in both playoff meetings.

Wilt had a hell of a lot of Hall of Famers on his side - Jerry West, Goodrich, Greer, Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Thurmond, Guy Rodgers, Tom Gola, Chet Walker. His own teammate Jerry West was so good, even when the Lakers lost in 1969, West showed up his teammate Chamberlain by winning the Finals MVP while Wilt choked away the 3-2 lead

- 8 points in Game 6 outscored by old Russell, quit and sat on the bench in Game 7

There are answers to all your questions here in ISH. There are in almost every Wilt's tread.
If you are really interested in why one of the GOAT players had only 2 titles.

Just about his 0 2 vs Reed in the Finals:
1970 - Wilt returned ahead of schedule after season ending knee injury just to participate and help Lakers in the post season. Reed himself observed that Wilt was not the same player after injury having lost some of his mobility ( lateral) and took full advantages of it in the first 4 games. Wilt made the adjustments after watching video of the games and start to counter Reed more and more succesfully making some clutch plays. Reed broke down injured in game 5 and with inspired play from his teamates Knicks won that game. Overall aging not fully recovered Wilt had GOAT numbers in that series. And Frazier was the star of the last game (can watch it on youtube). In fact the Knicks were so great as a team that they won 2 of the 3 games with Reed playing only a total of 30 minutes (or less, need to check and most of them he was handycaped by the injury). Not to take any of Reed's inspirational leadership of course.

For 1973 Finals Wilt played against the HOF combo of Reed and Lukas. You can check the last game of that series ( you can find the full game on youtube) and make your own conclusion.Then we can speek about Reed vs Wilt. When watching keep in mind that it was Wilt's last game ever and he was almost 37 at the time.

About West, as he was the best in 1969, he had his worst playoff run in 1972 (till that time)and was in great shooting slump. Wilt was great in the Finals and won the only ring for Jerry.

[Psileas]

show me the long list of players who are supposed to be GOAT candidate that lost more times than they won in the finals, benched in game 7, and had a losing record in the playoff against their biggest rival?

averaged 45-24 and can't even make the playoffs. Averaged 50 ppg in a reg season but zero 40 ppg playoff series

2/6 Finals record and in the majority of the 60s you only needed one round to make the NBA Finals in an 8-14 team league - had it way easier and still can't get it done.

The worst part about Wilt only winning 2 rings? He only won his second ring because the Willis Reed was injured and didn't play in the 1972 NBA Finals. What happened when Willis Reed did play against Wilt? Wilt ended up with an 0-2 playoff record against Willis in the 1970 and 1973 NBA Finals. HUGE asterisk next to Wilt's 1972 Finals MVP.

Wilt also had a 1-6 playoff record against Bill Russell, and a 1-1 record against inexperienced Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who outscored him in both playoff meetings.

Wilt had a hell of a lot of Hall of Famers on his side - Jerry West, Goodrich, Greer, Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Thurmond, Guy Rodgers, Tom Gola, Chet Walker. His own teammate Jerry West was so good, even when the Lakers lost in 1969, West showed up his teammate Chamberlain by winning the Finals MVP while Wilt choked away the 3-2 lead

- 8 points in Game 6 outscored by old Russell, quit and sat on the bench in Game 7

For anyone who's not trolling, all this BS has been crushed ad nauseam in dozens and dozens of cases. You posted some "Wilt wasn't competitive" crap, which not only were you unable to validate, you even posted cases that pretty much ruin your argument, like "non competitive" Wilt having 50 and 45 ppg seasons. So, what kind of stats should we be expecting from an actually competitive Wilt?

More evidence:
-Teammates of Wilt have claimed he was trying to win at everything he took part, even through cheating, which is a feature of competitive personalities.
-In Cavs' Wilt extensive video (I think), someone (probably Pollack) claims that only Jordan was as competitive a player as Wilt.
-Kareem claims he played ultra tough against Wilt or else he'd humiliate him (and he still was way less efficient vs Wilt compered to vs the rest of the league).
-Wilt repeatedly had huge games when it was claimed he had lost his ability to score.
-Lots of cases when he was challanged on a personal level, then proceeded to destroy his challenger (Gus Johnson dunked on him, Wilt blocked the shit out of him next time he tried to do so again, Phil Jackson blocked him once, Wilt blocked Jackson 5 times in a row, Wilt's fadeaway was blocked from behind in an exhibition game by Jackie Jackson, then Wilt had a dunk feast against Jackson's team, dominated hyped rookies, etc).
-His quotes that you did not expect.

The evidence shows a very competitive person. If you deny it, you basically claim that Wilt became the MDE while just toying with the competition.

[BigNBAfan]

For anyone who's not trolling, all this BS has been crushed ad nauseam in dozens and dozens of cases. You posted some "Wilt wasn't competitive" crap, which not only were you unable to validate, you even posted cases that pretty much ruin your argument, like "non competitive" Wilt having 50 and 45 ppg seasons. So, what kind of stats should we be expecting from an actually competitive Wilt?

More evidence:
-Teammates of Wilt have claimed he was trying to win at everything he took part, even through cheating, which is a feature of competitive personalities.
-In Cavs' Wilt extensive video (I think), someone (probably Pollack) claims that only Jordan was as competitive a player as Wilt.
-Kareem claims he played ultra tough against Wilt or else he'd humiliate him (and he still was way less efficient vs Wilt compered to vs the rest of the league).
-Wilt repeatedly had huge games when it was claimed he had lost his ability to score.
-Lots of cases when he was challanged on a personal level, then proceeded to destroy his challenger (Gus Johnson dunked on him, Wilt blocked the shit out of him next time he tried to do so again, Phil Jackson blocked him once, Wilt blocked Jackson 5 times in a row, Wilt's fadeaway was blocked from behind in an exhibition game by Jackie Jackson, then Wilt had a dunk feast against Jackson's team, dominated hyped rookies, etc).
-His quotes that you did not expect.

The evidence shows a very competitive person. If you deny it, you basically claim that Wilt became the MDE while just toying with the competition.

Where was this 'competitive person[ality]' during the playoffs?

[jlip]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slam_dunk:

"During the 1940s and '50s, 7-foot center and Olympic Gold Medalist Bob Kurland was dunking regularly during games.Yet defenders viewed the execution of a slam dunk as a personal affront that deserved retribution; thus defenders often intimidated offensive players and thwarted the move. Satch Sanders, a career Boston Celtic from 1960 to 1973, said:

"...in the old days, [defenders] would run under you when you were in the air... ...trying to take people out of games so they couldn't play. It was an unwritten rule..."

I think this is exactly what KAJ did to MJ in that video !!!


Oscar Robertson echoed these sentiments:

[QUOTE=jlip]"[I]The 6-5 Oscar Robertson, one of the game

[Psileas]

Where was this 'competitive person[ality]' during the playoffs?

He was right there, posting higher ppg averages in half his playoff series than in his regular season averages against the same opponent.

[John Tesh]

I'm just shocked that Wilt can still claim things. I thought he was dead.

[StephHamann]

IQ as high as his freethrow percentage

https://33.media.tumblr.com/144e852b68d55737d9e431b52c3371a8/tumblr_nlff7ghQ0S1tvbnqlo2_r1_250.gif

[AirFederer]

Wasn't Wilt a Globetrotter? Sooo what was that about?

I heard he lost some games even then :lol

[LAZERUSS]

show me the long list of players who are supposed to be GOAT candidate that lost more times than they won in the finals, benched in game 7, and had a losing record in the playoff against their biggest rival?

averaged 45-24 and can't even make the playoffs. Averaged 50 ppg in a reg season but zero 40 ppg playoff series

2/6 Finals record and in the majority of the 60s you only needed one round to make the NBA Finals in an 8-14 team league - had it way easier and still can't get it done.

The worst part about Wilt only winning 2 rings? He only won his second ring because the Willis Reed was injured and didn't play in the 1972 NBA Finals. What happened when Willis Reed did play against Wilt? Wilt ended up with an 0-2 playoff record against Willis in the 1970 and 1973 NBA Finals. HUGE asterisk next to Wilt's 1972 Finals MVP.

Wilt also had a 1-6 playoff record against Bill Russell, and a 1-1 record against inexperienced Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who outscored him in both playoff meetings.

Wilt had a hell of a lot of Hall of Famers on his side - Jerry West, Goodrich, Greer, Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Thurmond, Guy Rodgers, Tom Gola, Chet Walker. His own teammate Jerry West was so good, even when the Lakers lost in 1969, West showed up his teammate Chamberlain by winning the Finals MVP while Wilt choked away the 3-2 lead

- 8 points in Game 6 outscored by old Russell, quit and sat on the bench in Game 7

First of all, just getting to SIX Finals was an amazing accomplishment. Bird made it to five with HOF-laden rosters his entire career. And Hakeem played 18 seasons, and only went to three.

One round to reach the Finals? Wilt's teams faced the greatest dynasty in NBA history, in either his first, or second round, SIX times. Unlike so many other GOAT candidates, he didn't get to build up his stats with four rounds.

His teams also faced a PEAK Kareem (:roll: at "inexperienced") in two straight seasons, and with STACKED rosters that went 66-16 and 63-19. Oh, and he faced that 66-16 team without his two best teammates (West and Baylor both missed the playoffs.) BTW, he statistically outplayed that PEAK Kareem in the first series (and in fact, received a standing ovation as he left the floor...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.) And while Kareem heavily outscored Chamberlain in the '72 WCF's, virtually EVERY account, including the MILWAUKEE PRESS claimed that Wilt outplayed a PEAK Kareem. TIME MAGAZINE went so far as to claim that Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a PEAK Kareem. BTW, Kareem slowly declined after that season, and was never as dominant again.

Oh, and Bird won one more ring that Chamberlain, including one in which he scored 15 ppg on a .419 FG%. Chamberlain lost a Finals series in which he averaged 29 ppg, 28 rpg, and shot .517...and just annihilated "his biggest rival" in very single category. Which was something he would routinely do.

Kareem won a ring in a seven game Finals, with a 13 ppg, 4 rpg, .414 Finals. Chamberlain lost a seven game Finals, with a 23 ppg, 24 rpg, .625 FG% stat-line.

Hakeem won a ring with a game seven in the Finals shooting 10-25 from the field. Duncan won a ring with a game seven in which he shot 10-27. Bird won a ring shooting 6-18 in a game seven. Kobe won a Finals with a game seven in which he shot 6-24 from the floor. And Kareem won a Finals with a game seven of 2-7 from the field. Chamberlain lost two game seven's while posting stat-lines of 18-27 on 7-8 shooting, and 21-24 on 10-16 shooting from the floor.


Playoff scoring? Sure, Chamberlain didn't have a 50 ppg series. No one else ever did either. Furthermore, and again, a prime "scoring" Wilt was facing the greatest dynasty, and the greatest defensive center, in 30 of his 52 playoff games...and STILL AVERAGED 33 ppg in that same span. Oh, and he also was pulling down 27 rpg while doing so, and outshooting the post-season league eFG% by 10 percentage points.

We also know this...a prime "scoring" Wilt had the mis-fortune of playing in the weaker Western Conference in ONE playoff series. Oh, and all he did was average 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and shoot .559 (in a post-season NBA that shot .420 overall)...in a seven game series. And in that seventh game, all he could do was hang 39 points, on 19-29 shooting, with 26 rebounds, and 10 blocked shots.

It has been pointed out before, that Wilt never even ONCE had the good fortune to have faced the Lakers of the 60's in the playoffs. We do know that Russell beefed up his post-season stats feasting on the Lakers in that same period (FIVE times in the Finals.) We also know that Wilt faced the Lakers 86 times in the decade of the 60's, and had 42 games of 40+ points against them, which included 19 of 50+, 7 of 60+, and 2 of 70+.

As it was, Chamberlain had FOUR entire post-seasons of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and even 37 ppg. He also had post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. Oh, and in the entire history of NBA post-season basketball, there have only been THREE 50+ point games scored in MUST WIN situtaions. And guess who has ALL of them?

In fact, Wilt played in 23 MUST WIN post-season games...and averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, and shot .540 from the field (in post-season NBA's that shot about .430 in that same span...or a full 11 percentage points above the league average.) BTW...only TWO players have a higher ppg average in playoff MUST WIN games...Lebron, at 31.8 ppg, and MJ at 31.3 ppg...and neither approached Wilt's rpg, nor FG%'s.

Of course, a basher like yourself never brings up post-season rebounding. How come? Is it because Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by his opposing centers even ONCE? Or that he not only outrebounded "his biggest rival" in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series, but he was doing so by as much as NINE rpg in a series?

And how about you give me a list of players who had post-season runs in which they scored 30+ ppg, and grabbed 20+ rpg in the same post-season? I'll make it easy for you...ONLY Wilt accomplished that feat, and he did it FOUR times. In fact, a PRIME Chamberlain, in his first 67 post-season games (35 of which were against Russell, and another six against Thurmond)...AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (again, in post-seasons that shot .420 overall.) Now, give me a list of GOAT candidates, who had even ONE post-season SERIES with that stat-line. Hell, give your list GOATs who had ONE GAME with that line.

A Chamberlain that you labeled as "non-competitive" had 13 post-seasons in which he averaged 20+ rpg in EVERY one. He had NINE entire post-seasons of 20+ ppg and 20+ rpg.

How about assists? Chamberlain LED the NBA in apg in the '67 post-season, at ...get this... 9.0 apg. Included were two straight SERIES of 11 and 10 apg, with a high game of 19. Go ahead, and give me your list of GOAT centers who matched that.

Defense? How about this...Chamberlain outshot his opposing centers (ALL in the HOF BTW), in his SIX Finals, by a combined margin of .559 to .439. He also had series in which he ousthot Russell by margins of .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and even .556 to .358. He had playoff series against Thurmond in which he outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392, .560 to .343, and .611 to .373. BTW, Thurmond had three straight post-season series, and against a PEAK Kareem, in which he held Kareem to .486, .405, and .428 shooting. Chamberlain also outshot Bellamy in the '68 CF's by a margin of .584 to .421. And, against a PEAK Kareem, he held Abdul-Jabbar to .481 and .457 shooting (and in the last four games of the '72 WCF's...to a combined...get this... .414 from the field!)

Incidently, Wilt and Kareem played in two playoff series, and in their two clinching games, Chamberlain outshot KAJ from the field by a combined margin of .545 to .383.

True, Russell's TEAMs held a 7-1 H2H margin in series wins over Wilt's, BUT, let's examine them a little closer, shall we? Russell's TEAMs won FOUR of those series with game seven wins by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. In series in which Chamberlain either outplayed, or downright crushed Russell. In other words...Wilt was a mere nine points away from holding a 5-3 playoff margin over Russell.

BTW, you mentioned Wilt's six points in game six of the '69 Finals. How come you didn't mention game seven? Could it be because Wilt oustcored Russell, 18-6; outhsot Russell, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21? Oh, and how about this interesting fact in that same series...Wilt shot .875 from the field in that game, while Russell shot .286. However, Russell's TEAMMATES outshot Wilt's by a collective margin of .477 to .360...in a TWO POINT win. Baylor shot 8-22, and even West missed more shots than he made (14-29.)

Of course, you also didn't mention the fact that Wilt outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Russell from the floor in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series. Most by HUGE margins. He outscored Russell by margins as much as 22-10 ppg, 28-14 ppg, 29-11 ppg, and 30-16 ppg. He outrebounded Russell by margins as much as 30-26 rpg, 31-25 rpg, and 32-23 rpg. And he outshot Russell by margins as much as .500 to .397, .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and .556 to .358.

Yep...the "non-competitive" Wilt.

[coin24]

Cool story laz:lol

[julizaver]

Where was this 'competitive person[ality]' during the playoffs?

Busy to post 30-30 series vs Russell in 1965 EDF om 0.550 shooting.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267732

BTW how much players in the history had 20-20 series let alone 30-30 ???
How much players in the history had 30 rpg post series.
What is to grab 55 rebounds vs Russell (widely regarded as the best rebounder ever) or to average 4 rebounds more than him in 148 games ???
What is the second best rebounding post season behind Wilt's 22.5 rpg (17 games) in his last post season ever in 1973 at almost 37 years of age ?

Why the new wave of centers playing into 70s KAJ, Hayes, Walton, Mosses, Gilmore, McAdoo, Laneer ... never aproached Wilt's dominance at the boards (his last post-season in 1973) although they were all in their primes during 70s ?

[LAZERUSS]

Busy to post 30-30 series vs Russell in 1965 EDF om 0.550 shooting.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267732

BTW how much players in the history had 20-20 series let alone 30-30 ???
How much players in the history had 30 rpg post series.
What is to grab 55 rebounds vs Russell (widely regarded as the best rebounder ever) or to average 4 rebounds more than him in 148 games ???
What is the second best rebounding post season behind Wilt's 22.5 rpg (17 games) in his last post season ever in 1973 at almost 37 years of age ?

Why the new wave of centers playing into 70s KAJ, Hayes, Walton, Mosses, Gilmore, McAdoo, Laneer ... never aproached Wilt's dominance at the boards (his last post-season in 1973) although they were all in their primes during 70s ?

:applause: :applause: :applause:

BTW, Chamberlain's '65 EDF's has a strong case as the greatest post-season series ever played. He not only carried his 40-40 team, that had gone 34-46 the year before without him, to a game seven, one point loss on the road, against a Celtics team that went 62-18, and was at the peak of it's dynasty, but he just annihilated Russell in the process. Just a staggering destruction of a GOAT candidate, and a player widely regarded as the GOAT defensive center. Oh, and in the clinching game seven, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 30-15, outrebounded Russell, 32-29, and outshot Russell from the floor by a 12-15 (.800) to 7-16 (.438) margin. And also, Wilt scored eight of his team's last 10 points, including 2-2 from the line with 36 secs left, and a thunderous dunk over Russell with five secs left.

In any case... 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, on a .555 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .429!) Oh, and how about Wilt's margin in known blocked shots of 35-22?

GOAT.

[aj1987]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

BTW, Chamberlain's '65 EDF's has a strong case as the greatest post-season series ever played. He not only carried his 40-40 team, that had gone 34-46 the year before without him, to a game seven, one point loss on the road, against a Celtics team that went 62-18, and was at the peak of it's dynasty, but he just annihilated Russell in the process. Just a staggering destruction of a GOAT candidate, and a player widely regarded as the GOAT defensive center. Oh, and in the clinching game seven, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 30-15, outrebounded Russell, 32-29, and outshot Russell from the floor by a 12-15 (.800) to 7-16 (.438) margin. And also, Wilt scored eight of his team's last 10 points, including 2-2 from the line with 36 secs left, and a thunderous dunk over Russell with five secs left.

In any case... 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, on a .555 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .429!) Oh, and how about Wilt's margin in known blocked shots of 35-22?

GOAT.

You do know that people can look shit up, right?

Before Wilt: 22-23
After Wilt: 18-17

Dude managed to win 1 game more than what they won. :oldlol:

Game 7 of that EDF: 110-109 Celtics won by 1 in a game in which Wilt went 6-13 from the FT line.

Also, please post sources (none of which say allegedly) for the numbers and the play-by-play.

[LAZERUSS]

show me the long list of players who are supposed to be GOAT candidate that lost more times than they won in the finals, benched in game 7, and had a losing record in the playoff against their biggest rival?

averaged 45-24 and can't even make the playoffs. Averaged 50 ppg in a reg season but zero 40 ppg playoff series

2/6 Finals record and in the majority of the 60s you only needed one round to make the NBA Finals in an 8-14 team league - had it way easier and still can't get it done.

The worst part about Wilt only winning 2 rings? He only won his second ring because the Willis Reed was injured and didn't play in the 1972 NBA Finals. What happened when Willis Reed did play against Wilt? Wilt ended up with an 0-2 playoff record against Willis in the 1970 and 1973 NBA Finals. HUGE asterisk next to Wilt's 1972 Finals MVP.

Wilt also had a 1-6 playoff record against Bill Russell, and a 1-1 record against inexperienced Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, who outscored him in both playoff meetings.

Wilt had a hell of a lot of Hall of Famers on his side - Jerry West, Goodrich, Greer, Cunningham, Elgin Baylor, Thurmond, Guy Rodgers, Tom Gola, Chet Walker. His own teammate Jerry West was so good, even when the Lakers lost in 1969, West showed up his teammate Chamberlain by winning the Finals MVP while Wilt choked away the 3-2 lead

- 8 points in Game 6 outscored by old Russell, quit and sat on the bench in Game 7

Reed vs. Wilt?

A prime Chamberlain used Reed as one of his many punching bags. Fortunately for Willis, Walt Bellamy was traded to the Knicks in the 65-66 season, and Reed was able to avoid H2H's with Wilt until his '68-69 season, when Bellamy was traded away at mid-season.

But for the benefit of the uneducated, like yourself, here were the Wilt-Reed H2H's from '64-65 to 68-69:

In Chamberlain's 64-65 season, he faced Reed TWELVE times...and just carpet-bombed a helpless Willis.

In those 12 games, Chamberlain outscored Reed by a collective margin of 38.6 ppg to 22.8 ppg, which included beatdowns by margins of 37-22, 29-12, 46-25, 41-8, 52-23, and 58-28.

Wilt outrebounded Reed by a collective margin (we only have 6 of Reed's known games BTW)... of 21.3 rpg to 15.0 rpg. Included were margins of 28-14 and 32-8.

We only have one of Reed's FG% games...but as always against Wilt, it was below average. In this case, WAY below average. He shot 8-24 in that game, or .333. Meanwhile, we have 10 of Wilt's known games, and Chamberlain shot .532 against Reed in those 10 H2H's.


After Bellamy was traded in the 68-69 season, a PEAK Reed and a prime Wilt battled in two more H2H's.

Here were their cumulative totals:


Reed: 20.0 ppg, 9.5 rpg, 3.0 apg, .459 FG%
Wilt: 28.0 ppg, 22.0 rpg, 4.0 apg, .688 FG%

BTW, Chamberlain's Sixers downed Reed's Knicks, 4-2, in the '68 playoffs. Of course, Wilt went H2H to with Bellamy in that series, and as always, just crushed him. But, in any case, Wilt LED BOTH teams in scoring (25.5 ppg), rebounding (24.2 rpg), assists (6.3 apg), and FG% (.584.)


As for the '70 Finals...

Chamberlain was the better player in FIVE of the seven games. True, Reed was injured in game five (and to that point the two had split the first four games)...but of course, the bashers will never mention that Chamberlain was only four months removed from major knee surgery, and was nowhere near 100%. In any case, in those seven games...

Wilt outscored Reed, 23.2 ppg to 23.0 ppg; outrebounded Reed, 24.1 to 10.5 rpg; and outshot Reed, .625 to .483.


And in their '73 Finals, in which the Knicks won the last four games of that series...all in the last minute, and by margins, of 4, 4, 5, and 9 points...Wilt outplayed Reed in THREE of those five games, including the LAST game, when he outscored Reed, 23-18 and outrebounded Reed, 21-12.

Of course, West was nursing injuries, and Hairston had just come back from a season long injury, and was nowhere near his '72 form.

However, in the '72 Finals, the Lakers won the last four games, and three of them were by solid margins (the other an OT win in which Chamberlain was just phenomenal.) And Lucas played 46 mpg in that series, and averaged 20 ppg on a .500 FG%. I seriously doubt that Reed would have been capable of duplicating that. And given his inability to defend Wilt prior to that, I have no doubt that Chamberlain would still have equalled his 19 ppg, 23 rpg, .600 FMVP performance.

In any case, a healthy Chamberlain just owned Reed...even at his peak.

[LAZERUSS]

You do know that people can look shit up, right?

Before Wilt: 22-23
After Wilt: 18-17

Dude managed to win 1 game more than what they won. :oldlol:

Game 7 of that EDF: 110-109 Celtics won by 1 in a game in which Wilt went 6-13 from the FT line.

Also, please post sources (none of which say allegedly) for the numbers and the play-by-play.

Good for you.

True, the Sixers only improved slightly in the REGULAR season after acquiring Wilt in mid-season (and for THREE players and a boatload of cash BTW), BUT, in their post-season...

They stomped Oscar's LOADED 48-32 Royals team, 3-1, and in the clinching game, Chamberlain poured in 38 points, on 14-22 shooting, with 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks.

Wilt shot 6-13 from the line, and Russell went 1-2. Oh, and for the series, guess what...Chamberlain not only badly outscored Russell from the line (as he did against every center he faced in the playoffs), but outshot by a .583 to .472 margin. Overall, Chamberlain had a TS% advantage over Russell of .560 to .450!

So, Wilt's IMPACT went WAY beyond "one more game than what they won."

As for the source...

Page 142 of Cherry's book on Wilt...Wilt: Larger than Life.

"Wilt scored 8 of his team's final 10 points, including two critical free throws with 36 seconds left. He dunked on Russell to bring the Sixers a point behind with five seconds remaining. Russell, throwing the ball in bounds for Boston, hit the guide wire on the backboard, a violation that gave the ball to Philadelphia."

Of course, as you should know, "Havlicek stole the ball!", and Boston eked out a win and avoided the biggest upset in NBA playoff history.

BTW, Wilt's Sixers would then post the best record in the NBA over the course of each of the next three seasons.



Incidently, in game seven of the '62 EDF's, the Sixers were down 107-102 with 1:24 left. Wilt then dunked a teammate's miss, was fouled in the process, and MADE the FT. He tied the game with 16 seconds left, but Sam Jones hit the game-winning shot over...you guessed it...Wilt's outstretched fingertips to win the game. Which was just another example of Wilt basically playing Boston one-against-five in that series.

Next question...

[ralph_i_el]

First of all, just getting to SIX Finals was an amazing accomplishment. Bird made it to five with HOF-laden rosters his entire career. And Hakeem played 18 seasons, and only went to three.

One round to reach the Finals? Wilt's teams faced the greatest dynasty in NBA history, in either his first, or second round, SIX times. Unlike so many other GOAT candidates, he didn't get to build up his stats with four rounds.

His teams also faced a PEAK Kareem (:roll: at "inexperienced") in two straight seasons, and with STACKED rosters that went 66-16 and 63-19. Oh, and he faced that 66-16 team without his two best teammates (West and Baylor both missed the playoffs.) BTW, he statistically outplayed that PEAK Kareem in the first series (and in fact, received a standing ovation as he left the floor...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.) And while Kareem heavily outscored Chamberlain in the '72 WCF's, virtually EVERY account, including the MILWAUKEE PRESS claimed that Wilt outplayed a PEAK Kareem. TIME MAGAZINE went so far as to claim that Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a PEAK Kareem. BTW, Kareem slowly declined after that season, and was never as dominant again.

Oh, and Bird won one more ring that Chamberlain, including one in which he scored 15 ppg on a .419 FG%. Chamberlain lost a Finals series in which he averaged 29 ppg, 28 rpg, and shot .517...and just annihilated "his biggest rival" in very single category. Which was something he would routinely do.

Kareem won a ring in a seven game Finals, with a 13 ppg, 4 rpg, .414 Finals. Chamberlain lost a seven game Finals, with a 23 ppg, 24 rpg, .625 FG% stat-line.

Hakeem won a ring with a game seven in the Finals shooting 10-25 from the field. Duncan won a ring with a game seven in which he shot 10-27. Bird won a ring shooting 6-18 in a game seven. Kobe won a Finals with a game seven in which he shot 6-24 from the floor. And Kareem won a Finals with a game seven of 2-7 from the field. Chamberlain lost two game seven's while posting stat-lines of 18-27 on 7-8 shooting, and 21-24 on 10-16 shooting from the floor.


Playoff scoring? Sure, Chamberlain didn't have a 50 ppg series. No one else ever did either. Furthermore, and again, a prime "scoring" Wilt was facing the greatest dynasty, and the greatest defensive center, in 30 of his 52 playoff games...and STILL AVERAGED 33 ppg in that same span. Oh, and he also was pulling down 27 rpg while doing so, and outshooting the post-season league eFG% by 10 percentage points.

We also know this...a prime "scoring" Wilt had the mis-fortune of playing in the weaker Western Conference in ONE playoff series. Oh, and all he did was average 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and shoot .559 (in a post-season NBA that shot .420 overall)...in a seven game series. And in that seventh game, all he could do was hang 39 points, on 19-29 shooting, with 26 rebounds, and 10 blocked shots.

It has been pointed out before, that Wilt never even ONCE had the good fortune to have faced the Lakers of the 60's in the playoffs. We do know that Russell beefed up his post-season stats feasting on the Lakers in that same period (FIVE times in the Finals.) We also know that Wilt faced the Lakers 86 times in the decade of the 60's, and had 42 games of 40+ points against them, which included 19 of 50+, 7 of 60+, and 2 of 70+.

As it was, Chamberlain had FOUR entire post-seasons of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and even 37 ppg. He also had post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. Oh, and in the entire history of NBA post-season basketball, there have only been THREE 50+ point games scored in MUST WIN situtaions. And guess who has ALL of them?

In fact, Wilt played in 23 MUST WIN post-season games...and averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, and shot .540 from the field (in post-season NBA's that shot about .430 in that same span...or a full 11 percentage points above the league average.) BTW...only TWO players have a higher ppg average in playoff MUST WIN games...Lebron, at 31.8 ppg, and MJ at 31.3 ppg...and neither approached Wilt's rpg, nor FG%'s.

Of course, a basher like yourself never brings up post-season rebounding. How come? Is it because Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by his opposing centers even ONCE? Or that he not only outrebounded "his biggest rival" in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series, but he was doing so by as much as NINE rpg in a series?

And how about you give me a list of players who had post-season runs in which they scored 30+ ppg, and grabbed 20+ rpg in the same post-season? I'll make it easy for you...ONLY Wilt accomplished that feat, and he did it FOUR times. In fact, a PRIME Chamberlain, in his first 67 post-season games (35 of which were against Russell, and another six against Thurmond)...AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (again, in post-seasons that shot .420 overall.) Now, give me a list of GOAT candidates, who had even ONE post-season SERIES with that stat-line. Hell, give your list GOATs who had ONE GAME with that line.

A Chamberlain that you labeled as "non-competitive" had 13 post-seasons in which he averaged 20+ rpg in EVERY one. He had NINE entire post-seasons of 20+ ppg and 20+ rpg.

How about assists? Chamberlain LED the NBA in apg in the '67 post-season, at ...get this... 9.0 apg. Included were two straight SERIES of 11 and 10 apg, with a high game of 19. Go ahead, and give me your list of GOAT centers who matched that.

Defense? How about this...Chamberlain outshot his opposing centers (ALL in the HOF BTW), in his SIX Finals, by a combined margin of .559 to .439. He also had series in which he ousthot Russell by margins of .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and even .556 to .358. He had playoff series against Thurmond in which he outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392, .560 to .343, and .611 to .373. BTW, Thurmond had three straight post-season series, and against a PEAK Kareem, in which he held Kareem to .486, .405, and .428 shooting. Chamberlain also outshot Bellamy in the '68 CF's by a margin of .584 to .421. And, against a PEAK Kareem, he held Abdul-Jabbar to .481 and .457 shooting (and in the last four games of the '72 WCF's...to a combined...get this... .414 from the field!)

Incidently, Wilt and Kareem played in two playoff series, and in their two clinching games, Chamberlain outshot KAJ from the field by a combined margin of .545 to .383.

True, Russell's TEAMs held a 7-1 H2H margin in series wins over Wilt's, BUT, let's examine them a little closer, shall we? Russell's TEAMs won FOUR of those series with game seven wins by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. In series in which Chamberlain either outplayed, or downright crushed Russell. In other words...Wilt was a mere nine points away from holding a 5-3 playoff margin over Russell.

BTW, you mentioned Wilt's six points in game six of the '69 Finals. How come you didn't mention game seven? Could it be because Wilt oustcored Russell, 18-6; outhsot Russell, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21? Oh, and how about this interesting fact in that same series...Wilt shot .875 from the field in that game, while Russell shot .286. However, Russell's TEAMMATES outshot Wilt's by a collective margin of .477 to .360...in a TWO POINT win. Baylor shot 8-22, and even West missed more shots than he made (14-29.)

Of course, you also didn't mention the fact that Wilt outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Russell from the floor in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series. Most by HUGE margins. He outscored Russell by margins as much as 22-10 ppg, 28-14 ppg, 29-11 ppg, and 30-16 ppg. He outrebounded Russell by margins as much as 30-26 rpg, 31-25 rpg, and 32-23 rpg. And he outshot Russell by margins as much as .500 to .397, .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and .556 to .358.

Yep...the "non-competitive" Wilt.


ok

[Helix]

Incidently, in game seven of the '62 EDF's, the Sixers were down 107-102 with 1:24 left. Wilt then dunked a teammate's miss, was fouled in the process, and MADE the FT. He tied the game with 16 seconds left, but Sam Jones hit the game-winning shot over...you guessed it...Wilt's outstretched fingertips to win the game. Which was just another example of Wilt basically playing Boston one-against-five in that series.


And, with about a minute left in the game, Wilt was called for goaltending on what many have said was a very questionable call and others have said it was a downright horrible call. I didn't see it, it was a little before my time, so I can't give an opinion. Regardless though, there's that blasted leprechaun again.

[Bodhi]

For anyone who's not trolling, all this BS has been crushed ad nauseam in dozens and dozens of cases. You posted some "Wilt wasn't competitive" crap, which not only were you unable to validate, you even posted cases that pretty much ruin your argument, like "non competitive" Wilt having 50 and 45 ppg seasons. So, what kind of stats should we be expecting from an actually competitive Wilt?

More evidence:
-Teammates of Wilt have claimed he was trying to win at everything he took part, even through cheating, which is a feature of competitive personalities.
-In Cavs' Wilt extensive video (I think), someone (probably Pollack) claims that only Jordan was as competitive a player as Wilt.
-Kareem claims he played ultra tough against Wilt or else he'd humiliate him (and he still was way less efficient vs Wilt compered to vs the rest of the league).
-Wilt repeatedly had huge games when it was claimed he had lost his ability to score.
-Lots of cases when he was challanged on a personal level, then proceeded to destroy his challenger (Gus Johnson dunked on him, Wilt blocked the shit out of him next time he tried to do so again, Phil Jackson blocked him once, Wilt blocked Jackson 5 times in a row, Wilt's fadeaway was blocked from behind in an exhibition game by Jackie Jackson, then Wilt had a dunk feast against Jackson's team, dominated hyped rookies, etc).
-His quotes that you did not expect.

The evidence shows a very competitive person. If you deny it, you basically claim that Wilt became the MDE while just toying with the competition.

What? Wilt was the least competitive person to ever play in the league

Who asks to sit out the fourth quarter of game 7 the NBA finals? No other player would even think of something like that

[Helix]

What? Wilt was the least competitive person to ever play in the league

Who asks to sit out the fourth quarter of game 7 the NBA finals? No other player would even think of something like that


GOOD GRIEF!!! Another ugly troll raises its head.

[aj1987]

......
You can make all the excuses you want, but Wilt choked and statpadded harder than any other "ATG" ever. Dude stopped playing defense whenever he was racking up fouls, FFS.

Also, the previous season, that craptastic team made the PO's and took the Royals to 5 games. So much for Wilt's dominance. Dude cared about his stats and not winning.

As for posting the best records,

1966 - Got rekt by Russell
1967 - Saved by his teammates in the Finals (7th leading scorer in the series? :oldlol: )
1968 - Choked against the Celtics (6-15 FT's in game 7)

Keep typing up them excuses though.

[LAZERUSS]

You can make all the excuses you want, but Wilt choked and statpadded harder than any other "ATG" ever. Dude stopped playing defense whenever he was racking up fouls, FFS.

Also, the previous season, that craptastic team made the PO's and took the Royals to 5 games. So much for Wilt's dominance. Dude cared about his stats and not winning.

As for posting the best records,

1966 - Got rekt by Russell
1967 - Saved by his teammates in the Finals (7th leading scorer in the series? :oldlol: )
1968 - Choked against the Celtics (6-15 FT's in game 7)

Keep typing up them excuses though.

1966: Chamberlain averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against the Celtics in the EDF's. Meanwhile, his TEAMMATES collectively .352 from the floor in that series. But go ahead and blame Chamberlain. BTW, in the clinching game five loss... 46 points on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds.

1967: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt AVERAGED a TRIPLE-DOUBLE in that series, with a 22 ppg, 32 rpg, 10 apg average on a .556 FG%. In the clinching game five win, he outscored Russell, 29-4, outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5, outassisted Russell, 13-7, and outrebounded Russell, 36-21 (oh, and he blocked 7 shots as well.)

1968:

Save myself some trouble:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

And this from a Chamberlain who was nursing assorted injuries, including the same basic injury that rendered Reed to a statue in the '70 Finals...and Wilt STILL averaged 48 mpg in that seven game series.

Oh, and in what could have been the clinching win in game five, all Chamberlain did was outscore Russell, 28-8, outrebound Russell, 30-24, and outshoot Russell, 11-21 to 4-10 from the floor.

And for the series, a Wilt who was seen NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout... 22 ppg, 25 rpg, and 7 apg.

In that game seven of the Finals...Wilt badly injured his leg, and pulled himself out for TWO minutes. His idiotic coach refused to let him back in, and his team lost the game by two points, and the coach was essentially fired a short time later. As Cherry would write...Van Breda Kolff's obstinence not only cost LA their first ever title, it basically cost him his career, as well.

In any case, Chamberlain would go on to LEAD his '72 Lakers to their first ever title in Los Angeles, and win the FMVP in the process.

Now, I want YOU to PROVE to everyone here that Wilt quit playing defense after he was in foul trouble.

I can PROVE to you that he did not...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain

[QUOTE][B]In Game 3, Chamberlain scored 26 points and grabbed 20 rebounds for another Lakers win, and in a fiercely battled Game 4, the Lakers center was playing with five fouls late in the game. Having never fouled out in his career

[aj1987]

1967:
Wilt AVERAGED a TRIPLE-DOUBLE in that series, with a 22 ppg, 32 rpg, 10 apg average on a .556 FG%. In the clinching game five win, he outscored Russell, 29-4, outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5, outassisted Russell, 13-7, and outrebounded Russell, 36-21 (oh, and he blocked 7 shots as well.)

Why the **** are you talking about the EDF, when what I posted about was clearly the FINALS? Also, stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Post FACTS.

http://i.imgur.com/GW9UXVB.png

You can make all the excuses you want, but Wilt choked and statpadded harder than any other "ATG" ever. Dude stopped playing defense whenever he was racking up fouls, FFS.

Also, the previous season, that craptastic team made the PO's and took the Royals to 5 games. So much for Wilt's dominance. Dude cared about his stats and not winning.

As for posting the best records,

1966 - Got rekt by Russell
1967 - Saved by his teammates in the Finals (7th leading scorer in the series? )
1968 - Choked against the Celtics (6-15 FT's in game 7)

Keep typing up them excuses though.


Chokers gonna choke.

[LAZERUSS]

Why the **** are you talking about the EDF, when what I posted about was clearly the FINALS? Also, stop pulling numbers out of your ass. Post FACTS.

http://i.imgur.com/GW9UXVB.png

You can make all the excuses you want, but Wilt choked and statpadded harder than any other "ATG" ever. Dude stopped playing defense whenever he was racking up fouls, FFS.

Also, the previous season, that craptastic team made the PO's and took the Royals to 5 games. So much for Wilt's dominance. Dude cared about his stats and not winning.

As for posting the best records,

1966 - Got rekt by Russell
1967 - Saved by his teammates in the Finals (7th leading scorer in the series? )
1968 - Choked against the Celtics (6-15 FT's in game 7)

Keep typing up them excuses though.


Chokers gonna choke.

'67 Finals...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain DOMINATED that series. He wiped out a PEAK Thurmond (in Nate's greatest season BTW)...

let's post their game-by-games, shall we...

Wilt outscored Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Chamberlain outrbounded Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Wilt outassisted Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. And he outshot Thurmond from the field in ALL SIX games.

AND, while teammate Greer shot 5-16 from the floor in the clinching game six win, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

Virtually EVERYONE who witnessed that series proclaimed WILT as THE reason why his Sixers won that series, and the title.

Had the FMVP existed I can assure you that Chamberlain would have won a UNANIMOUS FMVP.

Of course, it was also no coincidence that Wilt won MVPs in '66, '67, and '68, as well.

In fact, in their ten years in the league together, Wilt was voted First Team ahead of Russell by a 7-2 margin (and should have been in '69 as well.)

And again, you have provided ZERO research which would show Chamberlain's defense with five fouls (which BTW, occurred a TOTAL of 13 times in his 160 post-season games.) BTW, he had a TOTAL of 73 playoff games with TWO fouls, or LESS.

GTFO with your pathetic attempts to disparage Chamberlain. You have been blown to shreds in every feeble attempt.

[aj1987]

'67 Finals...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain DOMINATED that series. He wiped out a PEAK Thurmond (in Nate's greatest season BTW)...

let's post their game-by-games, shall we...

Wilt outscored Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Chamberlain outrbounded Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Wilt outassisted Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. And he outshot Thurmond from the field in ALL SIX games.

AND, while teammate Greer shot 5-16 from the floor in the clinching game six win, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

Virtually EVERYONE who witnessed that series proclaimed WILT as THE reason why his Sixers won that series, and the title.

Had the FMVP existed I can assure you that Chamberlain would have won a UNANIMOUS FMVP.

Of course, it was also no coincidence that Wilt won MVPs in '66, '67, and '68, as well.

In fact, in their ten years in the league together, Wilt was voted First Team ahead of Russell by a 7-2 margin (and should have been in '69 as well.)

And again, you have provided ZERO research which would show Chamberlain's defense with five fouls (which BTW, occurred a TOTAL of 13 times in his 160 post-season games.) BTW, he had a TOTAL of 73 playoff games with TWO fouls, or LESS.

GTFO with your pathetic attempts to disparage Chamberlain. You have been blown to shreds in every feeble attempt.
7th leading scorer in the Finals. 24 PPG in the RS, 24 PPG in the first 2 rounds, and 18 PPG in the Finals.

:oldlol:

Keep the excuses coming.

[Jailblazers7]

Wasn't Wilt notoriously petty and jealous because he thought he wasn't given the respect he deserved? Not a surprise he says some shit like this.

[jlip]

7th leading scorer in the Finals. 24 PPG in the RS, 24 PPG in the first 2 rounds, and 18 PPG in the Finals.

:oldlol:

Keep the excuses coming.

Scoring more points doesn't make you better or more important especially when that is not your role.

[LAZERUSS]

Scoring more points doesn't make you better or more important especially when that is not your role.

And in his biggest games in the '67 playoffs, he absolutely DOMINATED them.

In his clinching game five win in the EDF's, he outscored Russell, 29-4; outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; outassisted Russell, 13-7; and outrebounded Russell, 36-21.

In his clinching game six win in the Finals, he outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outshot Nate, 8-13 to 4-13; and outrebounded Nate, 23-22.

[BigNBAfan]

Lets be real, wilt in todays era is a current Bynum

[LAZERUSS]

And, with about a minute left in the game, Wilt was called for goaltending on what many have said was a very questionable call and others have said it was a downright horrible call. I didn't see it, it was a little before my time, so I can't give an opinion. Regardless though, there's that blasted leprechaun again.


In the research that exists on that game, that "goal-tending" call was VERY controversial. Oh, and BTW, Wilt had FIVE fouls when he went for that block.

And another side-note, Chamberlain was praised for his DEFENSE in that game seven.

[LAZERUSS]

Lets be real, wilt in todays era is a current Bynum

Yep...if a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with a 27" vertical can put up a 24-12 season in 34 mpg, then a 7-1+ Wilt, at 290 lbs, and with a 7-8 wingspan, and a 40" vertical, and no doubt the strongest man to have ever played the game...and with this skill-set...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

would be a "Bynum" in the CURRENT NBA.

GTFO you idiot.

[BigNBAfan]

Yep...if a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with a 27" vertical can put up a 24-12 season in 34 mpg, then a 7-1+ Wilt, at 290 lbs, and with a 7-8 wingspan, and a 40" vertical, and no doubt the strongest man to have ever played the game...and with this skill-set...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

would be a "Bynum" in the CURRENT NBA.

GTFO you idiot.

Already resorting to personal attacks? Weakest form of argument.
We going to act like he didnt look like manute bol on the day of his 100pt game?

[dubeta]

Yep...if a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with a 27" vertical can put up a 24-12 season in 34 mpg, then a 7-1+ Wilt, at 290 lbs, and with a 7-8 wingspan, and a 40" vertical, and no doubt the strongest man to have ever played the game...and with this skill-set...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

would be a "Bynum" in the CURRENT NBA.

GTFO you idiot.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


This is why you don't take weak era stans seriously

[LAZERUSS]

Already resorting to personal attacks? Weakest form of argument.
We going to act like he didnt look like manute bol on the day of his 100pt game?

Show me the footage of Wilt's 100 point game please.

In fact, show me the footage of just one of his 40+ point games.

Or how about the 132 30-30 games in which he plastered his peers with, including guys like Russell, Lanier, and Bellamy.

Or the hundreds of 30-20 games he put up, and against guys like Thurmond, Reed, Russell, Bellamy, Lanier, Hayes.

Or the hundreds of 20-20 games that he had including players like Hayes, Lanier, Bellamy, Russell, Thurmond, Reed, and Kareem, and MANY of them in the post-season.

[BigNBAfan]

Show me the footage of Wilt's 100 point game please.

In fact, show me the footage of just one of his 40+ point games.

Or how about the 132 30-30 games in which he plastered his peers with, including guys like Russell, Lanier, and Bellamy.

Or the hundreds of 30-20 games he put up, and against guys like Thurmond, Reed, Russell, Bellamy, Lanier, Hayes.

Or the hundreds of 20-20 games that he had including players like Hayes, Lanier, Bellamy, Russell, Thurmond, Reed, and Kareem, and MANY of them in the post-season.

What does this have to do with anything?

Show me a picture of water on pluto

[LAZERUSS]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:


This is why you don't take weak era stans seriously

Easily a 40". This is INDISPUTABLE.

He was known to have dunked on a 12 foot rim. He was known to have dunked from taking off behind the FT line. He was known to have touched the top of the backboard. And he won a college HIGH JUMP championship.

Oh, there is FOOTAGE of Chamberlain, with a leap from a standing still position, and with his off-hand, coming within inches of the top of the backboard. There is NO QUESTION that Chamberlain, in his early 20's, and with a running start, would have EASILY touched the top of the backboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q

That is why you need to do some actual RESEARCH before you make yourself look like a fool.

[LAZERUSS]

What does this have to do with anything?

Show me a picture of water on pluto

Once again, YOU claimed that he looked "Manute Bol" in his 100 point game.
I asked you to prove it. You couldn't, which is no surprise.

Chamberlain was putting up 70+ point games on HOFer Walt Bellamy, who stood 6-11, and would measure at over 7-0 with shoes in today's NBA. He also hung 60+ point games on the 6-9 1/2 Russell (the same EXACT height as Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, and Howard in TODAY's NBA BTW.)

[aj1987]

Scoring more points doesn't make you better or more important especially when that is not your role.
Convenient how Wilt's "role" changes according to his fans to excuse his chokes.

[LAZERUSS]

Convenient how Wilt's "role" changes according to his fans to excuse his chokes.

Yep...a Wilt who averaged a 24-24-8 in the regular season, and then a post-season of 21-29-9.

Dramatic decline, right? BTW, and aside from himself, he faced the two other GOAT defensive centers in NBA history. Just ask a PEAK Kareem who had three straight playoff runs against an aging Thurmond, in which he shot .486, .405, and .428. A 38-39 year old Kareem averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against a 23-24 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's, including THREE of 40+.

[aj1987]

Yep...a Wilt who averaged a 24-24-8 in the regular season, and then a post-season of 21-29-9.

Dramatic decline, right? BTW, and aside from himself, he faced the two other GOAT defensive centers in NBA history. Just ask a PEAK Kareem who had three straight playoff runs against an aging Thurmond, in which he shot .486, .405, and .428. A 38-39 year old Kareem averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against a 23-24 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's, including THREE of 40+.
.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals


Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

[aj1987]

Dat Laz meltdown doe....


:applause: :applause: :applause:

And, as ALWAYS, the idiotic "bashers" completely taking Wilt's comments out of CONTEXT...to of course, further their biased and repeatedly STUPID agendas.

Oh of course...after all, there is a long list of players who averaged 45.8 mpg during their regular season career, and then 47.2 mpg over the course of their entire post-season career, right?

BTW...maybe you should take the time to look at the NBA RECORD BOOK, which has his name PLASTERED all over it...including many POST-SEASON records.

:facepalm

TEAM game you idiot.

How many titles did MJ win before Pippne and Grant arrived?

Why did a PRIME Kareem win exactly ONE title in his first ten seasons?

How about Bird, playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career, and "only" winning THREE rings...and losing with HCA SEVEN times?

How about Hakeem...with his EIGHT FIRST ROUND exits in his 15 playoff seasons, and only three Finals?

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Oh of course. After all the NBA is filled with 7-1+ (7-3 in shoes), 290 lb., 7-8 wingspan players with 40" verticals, and with enormous strength and power.

A prime Shaq would be a bum in the current NBA, right?

You won't find 6-7 3/4" players who can barely dunk, putting up 26-12 seasons in the current NBA, right?

Nor 6-9 3/4" centers putting up 24-12 seasons and in only 33 mpg, in the current NBA, right?

Well, his COACH asked him to take 40 shots per game? Why? Because he took one look at the pathetic cast of clowns that surrounded Wilt (and who had played horrifically in the '61 playoffs)...and decided that their ONLY hope was for Chamberlain to shoot.

Oh, and then Wilt single-handedly took that same cast of goobers, the core of which was the same last place roster her inherited two years earlier (but now older and worse)..to a game seven, two point loss against the HOF-laden, and 60-20 Celtics in the EDF's.

And a few years later, Chamberlain led a team to a dominating world title with a 24-24-8- .683 stat-line, and on only 14 FGAs per game.

In other words, Wilt did whatever his coach's asked of him, and whatever it took to win.

It is really only a handful of morons that either troll, or they are completely ignorant. But yes, they continually show up in these Wilt topics, and constantly make complete fools of themselves. And yes again, they provide ZERO knowledge or facts to their arguments.

In any case, this forum needs knowledgeable posters like yourself, so please fell free to provide your insight.

First of all, just getting to SIX Finals was an amazing accomplishment. Bird made it to five with HOF-laden rosters his entire career. And Hakeem played 18 seasons, and only went to three.

One round to reach the Finals? Wilt's teams faced the greatest dynasty in NBA history, in either his first, or second round, SIX times. Unlike so many other GOAT candidates, he didn't get to build up his stats with four rounds.

His teams also faced a PEAK Kareem (:roll: at "inexperienced") in two straight seasons, and with STACKED rosters that went 66-16 and 63-19. Oh, and he faced that 66-16 team without his two best teammates (West and Baylor both missed the playoffs.) BTW, he statistically outplayed that PEAK Kareem in the first series (and in fact, received a standing ovation as he left the floor...and the game was played in MILWAUKEE.) And while Kareem heavily outscored Chamberlain in the '72 WCF's, virtually EVERY account, including the MILWAUKEE PRESS claimed that Wilt outplayed a PEAK Kareem. TIME MAGAZINE went so far as to claim that Wilt DECISIVELY OUTPLAYED a PEAK Kareem. BTW, Kareem slowly declined after that season, and was never as dominant again.

Oh, and Bird won one more ring that Chamberlain, including one in which he scored 15 ppg on a .419 FG%. Chamberlain lost a Finals series in which he averaged 29 ppg, 28 rpg, and shot .517...and just annihilated "his biggest rival" in very single category. Which was something he would routinely do.

Kareem won a ring in a seven game Finals, with a 13 ppg, 4 rpg, .414 Finals. Chamberlain lost a seven game Finals, with a 23 ppg, 24 rpg, .625 FG% stat-line.

Hakeem won a ring with a game seven in the Finals shooting 10-25 from the field. Duncan won a ring with a game seven in which he shot 10-27. Bird won a ring shooting 6-18 in a game seven. Kobe won a Finals with a game seven in which he shot 6-24 from the floor. And Kareem won a Finals with a game seven of 2-7 from the field. Chamberlain lost two game seven's while posting stat-lines of 18-27 on 7-8 shooting, and 21-24 on 10-16 shooting from the floor.


Playoff scoring? Sure, Chamberlain didn't have a 50 ppg series. No one else ever did either. Furthermore, and again, a prime "scoring" Wilt was facing the greatest dynasty, and the greatest defensive center, in 30 of his 52 playoff games...and STILL AVERAGED 33 ppg in that same span. Oh, and he also was pulling down 27 rpg while doing so, and outshooting the post-season league eFG% by 10 percentage points.

We also know this...a prime "scoring" Wilt had the mis-fortune of playing in the weaker Western Conference in ONE playoff series. Oh, and all he did was average 39 ppg, 23 rpg, and shoot .559 (in a post-season NBA that shot .420 overall)...in a seven game series. And in that seventh game, all he could do was hang 39 points, on 19-29 shooting, with 26 rebounds, and 10 blocked shots.

It has been pointed out before, that Wilt never even ONCE had the good fortune to have faced the Lakers of the 60's in the playoffs. We do know that Russell beefed up his post-season stats feasting on the Lakers in that same period (FIVE times in the Finals.) We also know that Wilt faced the Lakers 86 times in the decade of the 60's, and had 42 games of 40+ points against them, which included 19 of 50+, 7 of 60+, and 2 of 70+.

As it was, Chamberlain had FOUR entire post-seasons of 33 ppg, 35 ppg, 35 ppg, and even 37 ppg. He also had post-season series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, 39 ppg, and 39 ppg. Oh, and in the entire history of NBA post-season basketball, there have only been THREE 50+ point games scored in MUST WIN situtaions. And guess who has ALL of them?

In fact, Wilt played in 23 MUST WIN post-season games...and averaged 31.1 ppg, 26.4 rpg, and shot .540 from the field (in post-season NBA's that shot about .430 in that same span...or a full 11 percentage points above the league average.) BTW...only TWO players have a higher ppg average in playoff MUST WIN games...Lebron, at 31.8 ppg, and MJ at 31.3 ppg...and neither approached Wilt's rpg, nor FG%'s.

Of course, a basher like yourself never brings up post-season rebounding. How come? Is it because Wilt played in 29 post-season series, and was never outrebounded by his opposing centers even ONCE? Or that he not only outrebounded "his biggest rival" in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series, but he was doing so by as much as NINE rpg in a series?

And how about you give me a list of players who had post-season runs in which they scored 30+ ppg, and grabbed 20+ rpg in the same post-season? I'll make it easy for you...ONLY Wilt accomplished that feat, and he did it FOUR times. In fact, a PRIME Chamberlain, in his first 67 post-season games (35 of which were against Russell, and another six against Thurmond)...AVERAGED 30.4 ppg, 27.0 rpg, 4.5 apg, and shot .515 from the field (again, in post-seasons that shot .420 overall.) Now, give me a list of GOAT candidates, who had even ONE post-season SERIES with that stat-line. Hell, give your list GOATs who had ONE GAME with that line.

A Chamberlain that you labeled as "non-competitive" had 13 post-seasons in which he averaged 20+ rpg in EVERY one. He had NINE entire post-seasons of 20+ ppg and 20+ rpg.

How about assists? Chamberlain LED the NBA in apg in the '67 post-season, at ...get this... 9.0 apg. Included were two straight SERIES of 11 and 10 apg, with a high game of 19. Go ahead, and give me your list of GOAT centers who matched that.

Defense? How about this...Chamberlain outshot his opposing centers (ALL in the HOF BTW), in his SIX Finals, by a combined margin of .559 to .439. He also had series in which he ousthot Russell by margins of .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and even .556 to .358. He had playoff series against Thurmond in which he outshot Nate by margins of .500 to .392, .560 to .343, and .611 to .373. BTW, Thurmond had three straight post-season series, and against a PEAK Kareem, in which he held Kareem to .486, .405, and .428 shooting. Chamberlain also outshot Bellamy in the '68 CF's by a margin of .584 to .421. And, against a PEAK Kareem, he held Abdul-Jabbar to .481 and .457 shooting (and in the last four games of the '72 WCF's...to a combined...get this... .414 from the field!)

Incidently, Wilt and Kareem played in two playoff series, and in their two clinching games, Chamberlain outshot KAJ from the field by a combined margin of .545 to .383.

True, Russell's TEAMs held a 7-1 H2H margin in series wins over Wilt's, BUT, let's examine them a little closer, shall we? Russell's TEAMs won FOUR of those series with game seven wins by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points. In series in which Chamberlain either outplayed, or downright crushed Russell. In other words...Wilt was a mere nine points away from holding a 5-3 playoff margin over Russell.

[aj1987]

Cont..


BTW, you mentioned Wilt's six points in game six of the '69 Finals. How come you didn't mention game seven? Could it be because Wilt oustcored Russell, 18-6; outhsot Russell, 7-8 to 2-7; and outrebounded Russell, 27-21? Oh, and how about this interesting fact in that same series...Wilt shot .875 from the field in that game, while Russell shot .286. However, Russell's TEAMMATES outshot Wilt's by a collective margin of .477 to .360...in a TWO POINT win. Baylor shot 8-22, and even West missed more shots than he made (14-29.)

Of course, you also didn't mention the fact that Wilt outscored, outrebounded, and outshot Russell from the floor in EVERY one of their EIGHT post-season series. Most by HUGE margins. He outscored Russell by margins as much as 22-10 ppg, 28-14 ppg, 29-11 ppg, and 30-16 ppg. He outrebounded Russell by margins as much as 30-26 rpg, 31-25 rpg, and 32-23 rpg. And he outshot Russell by margins as much as .500 to .397, .517 to .386, .555 to .447, and .556 to .358.

Yep...the "non-competitive" Wilt.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

BTW, Chamberlain's '65 EDF's has a strong case as the greatest post-season series ever played. He not only carried his 40-40 team, that had gone 34-46 the year before without him, to a game seven, one point loss on the road, against a Celtics team that went 62-18, and was at the peak of it's dynasty, but he just annihilated Russell in the process. Just a staggering destruction of a GOAT candidate, and a player widely regarded as the GOAT defensive center. Oh, and in the clinching game seven, Chamberlain outscored Russell, 30-15, outrebounded Russell, 32-29, and outshot Russell from the floor by a 12-15 (.800) to 7-16 (.438) margin. And also, Wilt scored eight of his team's last 10 points, including 2-2 from the line with 36 secs left, and a thunderous dunk over Russell with five secs left.

In any case... 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, on a .555 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .429!) Oh, and how about Wilt's margin in known blocked shots of 35-22?

GOAT.

Reed vs. Wilt?

A prime Chamberlain used Reed as one of his many punching bags. Fortunately for Willis, Walt Bellamy was traded to the Knicks in the 65-66 season, and Reed was able to avoid H2H's with Wilt until his '68-69 season, when Bellamy was traded away at mid-season.

But for the benefit of the uneducated, like yourself, here were the Wilt-Reed H2H's from '64-65 to 68-69:

In Chamberlain's 64-65 season, he faced Reed TWELVE times...and just carpet-bombed a helpless Willis.

In those 12 games, Chamberlain outscored Reed by a collective margin of 38.6 ppg to 22.8 ppg, which included beatdowns by margins of 37-22, 29-12, 46-25, 41-8, 52-23, and 58-28.

Wilt outrebounded Reed by a collective margin (we only have 6 of Reed's known games BTW)... of 21.3 rpg to 15.0 rpg. Included were margins of 28-14 and 32-8.

We only have one of Reed's FG% games...but as always against Wilt, it was below average. In this case, WAY below average. He shot 8-24 in that game, or .333. Meanwhile, we have 10 of Wilt's known games, and Chamberlain shot .532 against Reed in those 10 H2H's.


After Bellamy was traded in the 68-69 season, a PEAK Reed and a prime Wilt battled in two more H2H's.

Here were their cumulative totals:



BTW, Chamberlain's Sixers downed Reed's Knicks, 4-2, in the '68 playoffs. Of course, Wilt went H2H to with Bellamy in that series, and as always, just crushed him. But, in any case, Wilt LED BOTH teams in scoring (25.5 ppg), rebounding (24.2 rpg), assists (6.3 apg), and FG% (.584.)


As for the '70 Finals...

Chamberlain was the better player in FIVE of the seven games. True, Reed was injured in game five (and to that point the two had split the first four games)...but of course, the bashers will never mention that Chamberlain was only four months removed from major knee surgery, and was nowhere near 100%. In any case, in those seven games...

Wilt outscored Reed, 23.2 ppg to 23.0 ppg; outrebounded Reed, 24.1 to 10.5 rpg; and outshot Reed, .625 to .483.


And in their '73 Finals, in which the Knicks won the last four games of that series...all in the last minute, and by margins, of 4, 4, 5, and 9 points...Wilt outplayed Reed in THREE of those five games, including the LAST game, when he outscored Reed, 23-18 and outrebounded Reed, 21-12.

Of course, West was nursing injuries, and Hairston had just come back from a season long injury, and was nowhere near his '72 form.

However, in the '72 Finals, the Lakers won the last four games, and three of them were by solid margins (the other an OT win in which Chamberlain was just phenomenal.) And Lucas played 46 mpg in that series, and averaged 20 ppg on a .500 FG%. I seriously doubt that Reed would have been capable of duplicating that. And given his inability to defend Wilt prior to that, I have no doubt that Chamberlain would still have equalled his 19 ppg, 23 rpg, .600 FMVP performance.

In any case, a healthy Chamberlain just owned Reed...even at his peak.

Good for you.

True, the Sixers only improved slightly in the REGULAR season after acquiring Wilt in mid-season (and for THREE players and a boatload of cash BTW), BUT, in their post-season...

They stomped Oscar's LOADED 48-32 Royals team, 3-1, and in the clinching game, Chamberlain poured in 38 points, on 14-22 shooting, with 26 rebounds, and 10 blocks.

Wilt shot 6-13 from the line, and Russell went 1-2. Oh, and for the series, guess what...Chamberlain not only badly outscored Russell from the line (as he did against every center he faced in the playoffs), but outshot by a .583 to .472 margin. Overall, Chamberlain had a TS% advantage over Russell of .560 to .450!

So, Wilt's IMPACT went WAY beyond "one more game than what they won."

As for the source...

Page 142 of Cherry's book on Wilt...Wilt: Larger than Life.

"Wilt scored 8 of his team's final 10 points, including two critical free throws with 36 seconds left. He dunked on Russell to bring the Sixers a point behind with five seconds remaining. Russell, throwing the ball in bounds for Boston, hit the guide wire on the backboard, a violation that gave the ball to Philadelphia."

Of course, as you should know, "Havlicek stole the ball!", and Boston eked out a win and avoided the biggest upset in NBA playoff history.

BTW, Wilt's Sixers would then post the best record in the NBA over the course of each of the next three seasons.



Incidently, in game seven of the '62 EDF's, the Sixers were down 107-102 with 1:24 left. Wilt then dunked a teammate's miss, was fouled in the process, and MADE the FT. He tied the game with 16 seconds left, but Sam Jones hit the game-winning shot over...you guessed it...Wilt's outstretched fingertips to win the game. Which was just another example of Wilt basically playing Boston one-against-five in that series.

Next question...

1966: Chamberlain averaged 28 ppg, 30 rpg, and shot .509 against the Celtics in the EDF's. Meanwhile, his TEAMMATES collectively .352 from the floor in that series. But go ahead and blame Chamberlain. BTW, in the clinching game five loss... 46 points on 19-34 shooting, with 34 rebounds.

1967: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Wilt AVERAGED a TRIPLE-DOUBLE in that series, with a 22 ppg, 32 rpg, 10 apg average on a .556 FG%. In the clinching game five win, he outscored Russell, 29-4, outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5, outassisted Russell, 13-7, and outrebounded Russell, 36-21 (oh, and he blocked 7 shots as well.)

1968:

Save myself some trouble:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328011&postcount=14

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9328006&postcount=13

And this from a Chamberlain who was nursing assorted injuries, including the same basic injury that rendered Reed to a statue in the '70 Finals...and Wilt STILL averaged 48 mpg in that seven game series.

Oh, and in what could have been the clinching win in game five, all Chamberlain did was outscore Russell, 28-8, outrebound Russell, 30-24, and outshoot Russell, 11-21 to 4-10 from the floor.

And for the series, a Wilt who was seen NOTICEABLY LIMPING throughout... 22 ppg, 25 rpg, and 7 apg.

In that game seven of the Finals...Wilt badly injured his leg, and pulled himself out for TWO minutes. His idiotic coach refused to let him back in, and his team lost the game by two points, and the coach was essentially fired a short time later. As Cherry would write...Van Breda Kolff's obstinence not only cost LA their first ever title, it basically cost him his career, as well.

In any case, Chamberlain would go on to LEAD his '72 Lakers to their first ever title in Los Angeles, and win the FMVP in the process.

Now, I want YOU to PROVE to everyone here that Wilt quit playing defense after he was in foul trouble.

I can PROVE to you that he did not...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilt_Chamberlain



Psileas has also posted other games in which Wilt blocked key shots while in foul trouble, including game-savers.

Oh, and one more thing...in Wilt's entire career, he played 45 mpg, and averaged 2.0 PF's per game. And in his post-season career, he averaged 47.2 mpg, and a mere 2.5 PF's per game.

The reality was, Chamberlain was SELDOM even sniffing foul trouble. And yet he was reducing a PEAK Kareem to post-season series of .481 and .457 shooting, or about 10 full percentage points below his regular season NBA averages. And, in the last four pivotal games of the '72 WCF's, he held that PEAK Kareem, in his greatest season, to .414 shooting.

GOAT.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Next...

[aj1987]

Cont..

'67 Finals...

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Chamberlain DOMINATED that series. He wiped out a PEAK Thurmond (in Nate's greatest season BTW)...

let's post their game-by-games, shall we...

Wilt outscored Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Chamberlain outrbounded Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. Wilt outassisted Thurmond in FIVE of the SIX games. And he outshot Thurmond from the field in ALL SIX games.

AND, while teammate Greer shot 5-16 from the floor in the clinching game six win, Chamberlain outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

Virtually EVERYONE who witnessed that series proclaimed WILT as THE reason why his Sixers won that series, and the title.

Had the FMVP existed I can assure you that Chamberlain would have won a UNANIMOUS FMVP.

Of course, it was also no coincidence that Wilt won MVPs in '66, '67, and '68, as well.

In fact, in their ten years in the league together, Wilt was voted First Team ahead of Russell by a 7-2 margin (and should have been in '69 as well.)

And again, you have provided ZERO research which would show Chamberlain's defense with five fouls (which BTW, occurred a TOTAL of 13 times in his 160 post-season games.) BTW, he had a TOTAL of 73 playoff games with TWO fouls, or LESS.

GTFO with your pathetic attempts to disparage Chamberlain. You have been blown to shreds in every feeble attempt.

And in his biggest games in the '67 playoffs, he absolutely DOMINATED them.

In his clinching game five win in the EDF's, he outscored Russell, 29-4; outshot Russell, 10-16 to 2-5; outassisted Russell, 13-7; and outrebounded Russell, 36-21.

In his clinching game six win in the Finals, he outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outshot Nate, 8-13 to 4-13; and outrebounded Nate, 23-22.

In the research that exists on that game, that "goal-tending" call was VERY controversial. Oh, and BTW, Wilt had FIVE fouls when he went for that block.

And another side-note, Chamberlain was praised for his DEFENSE in that game seven.

Yep...if a 6-9 1/2 Cousins, with a 27" vertical can put up a 24-12 season in 34 mpg, then a 7-1+ Wilt, at 290 lbs, and with a 7-8 wingspan, and a 40" vertical, and no doubt the strongest man to have ever played the game...and with this skill-set...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

would be a "Bynum" in the CURRENT NBA.

GTFO you idiot.

Show me the footage of Wilt's 100 point game please.

In fact, show me the footage of just one of his 40+ point games.

Or how about the 132 30-30 games in which he plastered his peers with, including guys like Russell, Lanier, and Bellamy.

Or the hundreds of 30-20 games he put up, and against guys like Thurmond, Reed, Russell, Bellamy, Lanier, Hayes.

Or the hundreds of 20-20 games that he had including players like Hayes, Lanier, Bellamy, Russell, Thurmond, Reed, and Kareem, and MANY of them in the post-season.

Easily a 40". This is INDISPUTABLE.

He was known to have dunked on a 12 foot rim. He was known to have dunked from taking off behind the FT line. He was known to have touched the top of the backboard. And he won a college HIGH JUMP championship.

Oh, there is FOOTAGE of Chamberlain, with a leap from a standing still position, and with his off-hand, coming within inches of the top of the backboard. There is NO QUESTION that Chamberlain, in his early 20's, and with a running start, would have EASILY touched the top of the backboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QF8yJ1J1W7Q

That is why you need to do some actual RESEARCH before you make yourself look like a fool.

Once again, YOU claimed that he looked "Manute Bol" in his 100 point game.
I asked you to prove it. You couldn't, which is no surprise.

Chamberlain was putting up 70+ point games on HOFer Walt Bellamy, who stood 6-11, and would measure at over 7-0 with shoes in today's NBA. He also hung 60+ point games on the 6-9 1/2 Russell (the same EXACT height as Cousins, Jordan, Drummond, and Howard in TODAY's NBA BTW.)

Yep...a Wilt who averaged a 24-24-8 in the regular season, and then a post-season of 21-29-9.

Dramatic decline, right? BTW, and aside from himself, he faced the two other GOAT defensive centers in NBA history. Just ask a PEAK Kareem who had three straight playoff runs against an aging Thurmond, in which he shot .486, .405, and .428. A 38-39 year old Kareem averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against a 23-24 year old Hakeem in TEN STRAIGHT H2H's, including THREE of 40+.

[jlip]

Convenient how Wilt's "role" changes according to his fans to excuse his chokes.

Actually his role changed according to his coaches and teams. It's very similar to how KG went from a 22/13/4 player in '07 with the Wolves to a 19/9/3 player in '08 with the Celtics. While putting up worse stats all around, he got far more MVP talk in '08 than in '07. Yes, with a better cast of players in Boston, his team had a better record, but the MVP consideration had absolutely nothing to do with scoring whatsoever. It was based on a non scoring quality, defense. One could argue that he was actually a better player in '08 than he was in '07.

Prior to '87 you didn't judge whether Magic was dominating based on how many points he scored. It's because scoring was not his role.


In the '86 regular season Bird led the Celtics in scoring avg. 26/10/7. He avg. ~24/ 10/10 in the Finals with Mchale leading the team in scoring. Not one person would say that Bird "shrunk" in the Finals that year. Scoring is not the end all be all.

[aj1987]

Actually his role changed according to his coaches and teams. It's very similar to how KG went from a 22/13/4 player in '07 with the Wolves to a 19/9/3 player in '08 with the Celtics. While putting up worse stats all around, he got far more MVP talk in '08 than in '07. Yes, with a better ast of players in Boston his team had a better record, but the MVP consideration had absolutely nothing to do with scoring whatsoever. It was based on a non scoring quality, defense. One could argue that he was actually a better player in '08 than he was in '07.

Prior to '87 you didn't judge whether Magic was dominating based on how many points he scored. It's because scoring was not his role.
We're talking about Wilt's numbers dropping dramatically in the SAME season.

[Beastmode88]

Wilt and Russell said they would stop shaq as well. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[LAZERUSS]

We're talking about Wilt's numbers dropping dramatically in the SAME season.

Which, of course, NEVER happened. Post his regular season H2H numbers against the SAME teams that he would face in the playoffs, and then get back to me.

BTW, post his RPG and FG% numbers, as well as those of his OPPOSING centers in those post-season H2H's, as well.

Let me give you an example.

In Russell's '67 regular season, he averaged 13.3 ppg, and shot .454 from the floor against the NBA. Against Wilt in the EDF's... 10.2 ppg on .358 shooting.

In Thurmond's '67 regular season, he averaged 18.7 ppg, and shot .437 against the NBA. Against Wilt in the Finals... 14.3 ppg and on a .343 FG%.

Bellamy in his '68 regular season... shot .541 from the field. Against Wilt in the playoffs that season... .421.

Kareem shot .577 from the field in his '71 regular season. Against Wilt in the WCF's... .481.

Kareem shot .574 from the floor against the NBA in his '72 regular season. Against Wilt in the WCF's... .457 (including .414 in the last four pivotal games.)

I could post many more examples, as well.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt and Russell said they would stop shaq as well. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

How about a 6-8 230 lber...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wg3BiOw4TWo

oh, and how about the great Eddy Curry in his career H2H's with Shaq...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=curryed01&p2=onealsh01

[aj1987]

Which, of course, NEVER happened. Post his regular season H2H numbers against the SAME teams that he would face in the playoffs, and then get back to me.

BTW, post his RPG and FG% numbers, as well as those of his OPPOSING centers in those post-season H2H's, as well.

Let me give you an example.

In Russell's '67 regular season, he averaged 13.3 ppg, and shot .454 from the floor against the NBA. Against Wilt in the EDF's... 10.2 ppg on .358 shooting.

In Thurmond's '67 regular season, he averaged 18.7 ppg, and shot .437 against the NBA. Against Wilt in the Finals... 14.3 ppg and on a .343 FG%.

Bellamy in his '68 regular season... shot .541 from the field. Against Wilt in the playoffs that season... .421.

Kareem shot .577 from the field in his '71 regular season. Against Wilt in the WCF's... .481.

Kareem shot .574 from the floor against the NBA in his '72 regular season. Against Wilt in the WCF's... .457 (including .414 in the last four pivotal games.)

I could post many more examples, as well.
Stay delusional, old fart.

GOATside >>>>> Wilt and it's not even close. FOH with your '60's BS.

[BigNBAfan]

Jordan would be 10x better in Wilt's era
Wilt in Jordan's era would jared dudley or MAYBE manute bol

[scm5]

Wow. Wilt claims he benched 600....

With that kind of wingspan benching that kind of weight, no wonder he beat up mountain lions.

[John Tesh]

This is why Wilt wasn't the master of head games that Russell was.

[Kendom]

Did anyone here listen to his statements in context? his statement about Jordan being benched was in reference to some of Jordan's flashy moves, he was highlighting the culture difference between the way that flashiness was perceived in the 60s as opposed to the 90s, he said that if Jordan did those moves his coach would have benched him. It wasn't about Jordan's ability it was his playing style. Although he did say that Jordan wouldn't be able to be as successful in his era.

[andgar923]

Flashy moves?

What MJ did was simply a reaction to the defense.

Just in the same manner that Elgin, Connie, Oscar, Hawk, Pistol, Ice, hillman, Thompson, Erving and many others reacted to the defense.

Wilt is delusional.

If some players in the past were acrobatic aka "flashy" in past eras, what makes him think MJ wouldn't?

Did Red bench Cousy for being flashy?

If MJ performed like he did for his career, coaches would let him be as 'flashy' as he desired. And there's nothing the defense could do that other physical defenses that MJ faced would be able to do.

[DatAsh]

Flashy moves?

What MJ did was simply a reaction to the defense.

Just in the same manner that Elgin, Connie, Oscar, Hawk, Pistol, Ice, hillman, Thompson, Erving and many others reacted to the defense.

Wilt is delusional.

If some players in the past were acrobatic aka "flashy" in past eras, what makes him think MJ wouldn't?

Did Red bench Cousy for being flashy?

If MJ performed like he did for his career, coaches would let him be as 'flashy' as he desired. And there's nothing the defense could do that other physical defenses that MJ faced would be able to do.

This is actually a good point. Jordan wasn't the first player to start doing acrobatic finishes in traffic. There were guys in the Wilt's own era doing the exact same moves, and just like Jordan - other than breakaway dunks - they weren't doing it for flash, they were doing it because it helped them score. Shoot, there were guys before Wilt's time that had even flashier games than Jordan, and crowds loved them for it.

[Paul George 24]

skip to 6:30

this dude is delusional, also claims Shaq's game wouldn't have translated to the 60's.

Dude sound so insecure

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZIkonXt2VI

NO MATTER,WILT IS BILL RUSSELL'S BITCH FOREVER

[jongib369]

This is actually a good point. Jordan wasn't the first player to start doing acrobatic finishes in traffic. There were guys in the Wilt's own era doing the exact same moves, and just like Jordan - other than breakaway dunks - they weren't doing it for flash, they were doing it because it helped them score. Shoot, there were guys before Wilt's time that had even flashier games than Jordan, and crowds loved them for it.
It would depend on the coach and who he's going against. Some coaches would let him, some players wouldn't be offended. But the opposite was true to with all I've heard about hot dogging. Heck didn't Jordans coach in college even limit him a little?

[andgar923]

It would depend on the coach and who he's going against. Some coaches would let him, some players wouldn't be offended. But the opposite was true to with all I've heard about hot dogging. Heck didn't Jordans coach in college even limit him a little?

Yup

MJ actually apologized to Dean Smith after the famous 'rock the cradle' dunk, but Dean said it was okay.

As I stated, if you perform coaches will let you get away with shit.

It was considered offensive to teams if you tried to showboat on them even in the 90s, so naturally teams took offense if you did it in the 80s as well. So it wasn't as if players only took offense in the 50s and 60s when Wilt played.