Who are the 5 Greatest Finals Performers Ever?

[Wade's Rings]

Mike? Bird? Magic? Hakeem? Duncan? Shaq? Wade?

Wilt? Lebron? :lol

[JT123]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.

[Fudge]

Durant would have been up there, but the refs and his teammates let him down.

[Spurs m8]

Honestly, ****ing **** Wade.

Played like a washed up loser last year, undid any work he'd done previously.

Plus he's a dirty dog on the court, go knee some more players in the nuts why dont ya

Cheers

[BasedTom]

Honestly, ****ing **** Wade.

Played like a washed up loser last year, undid any work he'd done previously.

Plus he's a dirty dog on the court, go knee some more players in the nuts why dont ya

Cheers
dude is living rent free in your head :roll:

[dubeta]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.

This. It was blatant sabotage

[Pointguard]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.
Lebron is definitely the biggest reason he doesn't have a three peat. You can't even describe that craziness he did in 2011.

[dubeta]

LeBron put up 28 ppg on 60% fg and 50 % from 3 last finals. I don't think anyone else in NBA history could do that level of efficiency. Therefore I would go with him.

[SouBeachTalents]

LeBron put up 28 ppg on 60% fg and 50 % from 3 last finals. I don't think anyone else in NBA history could do that level of efficiency. Therefore I would go with him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8

[20Four]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1FuYJ1U2YZ8
/thread

[pauk]

None of those mentioned....

Jerry West & Elgin Baylor.

b-b-bu-bub-but 1 of 100 in Finals.

[GrapeApe]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.

Trolling aside, do you really think Wade playing better would have made any difference? They weren't winning that series regardless. On the other hand, had Lebron played just slightly better in 2011 the Heat would have had their 3 peat.

[Fire Colangelo]

Trolling aside, do you really think Wade playing better would have made any difference? They weren't winning that series regardless. On the other hand, had Lebron played just slightly better in 2011 the Heat would have had their 3 peat.

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree. But the Hear absolutely had a fighting chance last year had Wade played better. Game 1 was really close, I think the game was within 2 when Lebron went out with cramps at around 4 mins. Had Wade played better down the stretch they could've stole game 1, instead he Spurs went on a 15-3 (or something like that) run.

The series probably would've went to 6-7 but they definitely had a chance if Wade played better.

[Beastmode88]

Jordan's 41 ppg final. :bowdown:

[dubeta]

Jordan's 41 ppg final. :bowdown:

Nope, sorry.

[Beastmode88]

Nope, sorry.

Fine, Lebron James 3 ppg in the 4th quarter in 2014. :bowdown:

[SouBeachTalents]

Nope, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[dubeta]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

He had 3 bad games that series just like Wade vs Pacers 2012, dont see what the problem is. :confusedshrug:

[JT123]

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree. But the Hear absolutely had a fighting chance last year had Wade played better. Game 1 was really close, I think the game was within 2 when Lebron went out with cramps at around 4 mins. Had Wade played better down the stretch they could've stole game 1, instead he Spurs went on a 15-3 (or something like that) run.

The series probably would've went to 6-7 but they definitely had a chance if Wade played better.
:applause:

[The_Pharcyde]

Fine, Lebron James 3 ppg in the 4th quarter in 2014. :bowdown:


Anything lebron did bad isn't his fault and anything the heat did well was all lebron

Guys logic makes no sense, let him live in whatever world he resides in
Mj is still the goat, let his brain think whatever it wants... You can never convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced

[SouBeachTalents]

He had 3 bad games that series just like Wade vs Pacers 2012, dont see what the problem is. :confusedshrug:

Slight difference is, Wade averaged 33/7/4 on 62% the rest of the series and helped Miami win the series

[Deuce Bigalow]

MJ
Shaq
Magic
Hakeem
West

[DatAsh]

Jordan and Shaq of the guys listed.

Jordan, Shaq, Russell all time, and West is up there as well.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan, West, Shaq

[ArbitraryWater]

Trolling aside, do you really think Wade playing better would have made any difference? They weren't winning that series regardless. On the other hand, had Lebron played just slightly better in 2011 the Heat would have had their 3 peat.

Hell yeah.. If Wade plays better they can win game 1, and have a much better chance in game's 3-5.

LeBron was on in the 3rd quarter of G4, but Wade didn't rally the troops with him. In fact, he was nearly scoreless after both game 3 and 4 after the first 3 quarters, and by then the game was over.

[SexSymbol]

Jordan, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe

[T_L_P]

Kobe

:oldlol:

[ArbitraryWater]

Jordan, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Kobe

You're hilarious :oldlol:

[Harison]

What West did was the best Finals performance ever IMO.

Overall: Russell, he didnt know how to lose.

[Dresta]

I know what you're trying to say, and I agree. But the Hear absolutely had a fighting chance last year had Wade played better. Game 1 was really close, I think the game was within 2 when Lebron went out with cramps at around 4 mins. Had Wade played better down the stretch they could've stole game 1, instead he Spurs went on a 15-3 (or something like that) run.

The series probably would've went to 6-7 but they definitely had a chance if Wade played better.
Sorry, but why are you blaming Wade for game 1? If the heat was enough to make Bron leave the game and not return, then it seems like it would be enough to make Wade struggle to finish the game (especially considering his fitness/injury situation that season).

You expected that Wade to carry Miami home in those conditions (conditions in which the much fitter and less injured Bron couldn't even play), against the defense of Kawhi and Danny Green focused on him alone with Bron out of the game?

That game was over as soon as Bron left the court. That Miami team didn't have anything like the depth to keep pace down the final stretch, with its best player sitting on the bench.

They won game 2, and got annihilated in the rest. The whole team was 2 steps too slow on defense, and they got shredded. Wade playing better doesn't really change any of that. Bron had only to not choke in 2011 for Miami to win.


Hell yeah.. If Wade plays better they can win game 1, and have a much better chance in game's 3-5.

LeBron was on in the 3rd quarter of G4, but Wade didn't rally the troops with him. In fact, he was nearly scoreless after both game 3 and 4 after the first 3 quarters, and by then the game was over.
And if Bron actually plays then maybe Wade plays better, as he wouldn't be the sole focus of an exceptional defense. Look how tired Miami and Wade were at the end of game one. His body failed him just like Bron, yet he at least finished the game.

You simply cannot excuse Bron for game 1 and blame someone else, when his inability to play was the cause of Miami's breakdown. Bron has a single injury issue: completely excused! Wade has knee problems in multiple playoffs (which he plays through), so his aggregated stats are weaker than normal, even though he came up huge in 2012 & 2013, when it mattered most: Wade let Bron down by not averaging enough! He was only a 'role-player'!

Excuse me for pointing out the absurd double standards here.

[ninephive]

LeBron put up 28 ppg on 60% fg and 50 % from 3 last finals. I don't think anyone else in NBA history could do that level of efficiency. Therefore I would go with him.
People forget this...Lebron was great last year. Spurs were just unconscious.

[Marchesk]

Barry deserves a mention also, although it was only 2 NBA finals. Still, one was a 40.8 and the other was winning without much of a supporting cast.

West averaged 30 over 9 finals. Kind of hard to ignore that. Lebron has never averaged 30.

[ArbitraryWater]

And if Bron actually plays then maybe Wade plays better, as he wouldn't be the sole focus of an exceptional defense. Look how tired Miami and Wade were at the end of game one. His body failed him just like Bron, yet he at least finished the game.

You simply cannot excuse Bron for game 1 and blame someone else, when his inability to play was the cause of Miami's breakdown. Bron has a single injury issue: completely excused! Wade has knee problems in multiple playoffs (which he plays through), so his aggregated stats are weaker than normal, even though he came up huge in 2012 & 2013, when it mattered most: Wade let Bron down by not averaging enough! He was only a 'role-player'!

Excuse me for pointing out the absurd double standards here.

This isn't a double standart.

You can't blame someone for not playing with a cramp :ohwell:

The guy couldn't walk... had to be carried off for the last few meters.

Wouldn't you have loved to see Wade carry home that game?

Wade was able to play, LeBron's BODY failed him, but they were all tired.

The moment LeBron came out, they collapsed (And I want to add I was disgusted with the refereeing in game 1, particularly after Bosh's 3 and-one which put them up 6-7, and the Spurs got nervous, the referee's bailed them out on a Leonard clank, Spurs may have never gotten close if they don't get that call).

Wade himself has said he was HEALTHY in 2014, and while he struggled with injuries, it's not like he played through pain in 2013, either. Just limited.

He's aware of his mediocrity the last two years, which is why when he recently said his Body is feeling the best in years, he himself wondered why it wasn't the case the last couple of years... He knows they could have used it the last finals, and he knows he could have been better overall the last few years.

[Dresta]

This isn't a double standart.

You can't blame someone for not playing with a cramp :ohwell:

The guy couldn't walk... had to be carried off for the last few meters.

Wouldn't you have loved to see Wade carry home that game?

Wade was able to play, LeBron's BODY failed him, but they were all tired.

The moment LeBron came out, they collapsed (And I want to add I was disgusted with the refereeing in game 1, particularly after Bosh's 3 and-one which put them up 6-7, and the Spurs got nervous, the referee's bailed them out on a Leonard clank, Spurs may have never gotten close if they don't get that call).

Wade himself has said he was HEALTHY in 2014, and while he struggled with injuries, it's not like he played through pain in 2013, either. Just limited.

He's aware of his mediocrity the last two years, which is why when he recently said his Body is feeling the best in years, he himself wondered why it wasn't the case the last couple of years... He knows they could have used it the last finals, and he knows he could have been better overall the last few years.
And you're trying to tell me Wade's diminished playoff performances have nothing to do with his body failing him? Please...


As for the bolded, Wade has said similar things multiple times already, only for it to turn out not to be true, or for him to have another set-back. To say he didn't play through pain in 2013 is absurd, he had multiple bone bruises on his right knee, had it drained before game 7, and his discomfort was clear as day (that bang his knee took from Ginobili almost hurt me it looked so uncomfortable).

edit: i'm not sure if 14 was his fitness (not able to keep up with quick ball-movement of SA), or whether he had another flare-up. Miami and Wade have always kept the details pretty close to their chests, but something clearly wasn't right. He couldn't keep pace, physically, and it didn't help that Miami was old all-round, and severely lacking in depth.

[stalkerforlife]

MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, West.

/thread

[Wade's Rings]

MJ, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq, West.

/thread

:lol

[WadeStan]

Might as well name this thread who choked more: Lebron in 2011 in his prime and fully healthy with a fully healthy prime Wade doing most of the legwork in a series where they clearly had the advantage vs Wade in 2014, past his prime and injured with a healthy prime Lebron James doing most of the legwork in a series in which they were outmatched, playing a gimmicky defense on the tail end of consecutive finals experiences.

There's a reason why teams don't 4 peat. It's not just Wade who stunk up the joint. But the 3 peat would have happened if Lebron didn't lay an egg.

Well dang, I just answered my own question. :D

[EnoughSaid]

It doesn't matter if Wade would have went off last year. The Spurs would have still won. They were too hot and too good defensively. The team was just exhausted.

Anyway,

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade

[Wade's Rings]

Might as well name this thread who choked more: Lebron in 2011 in his prime and fully healthy with a fully healthy prime Wade doing most of the legwork in a series where they clearly had the advantage vs Wade in 2014, past his prime and injured with a healthy prime Lebron James doing most of the legwork in a series in which they were outmatched, playing a gimmicky defense on the tail end of consecutive finals experiences.

There's a reason why teams don't 4 peat. It's not just Wade who stunk up the joint. But the 3 peat would have happened if Lebron didn't lay an egg.

Well dang, I just answered my own question. :D

That name tho:bowdown:

[3ball]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.


Blame Lebron for falling far short of media predictions that he would be GOAT and 3-peat like MJ - MJ dealt with the same languishing teammates in the 1998 Finals, when Pippen averaged 15 PPG and 41% FG just like Wade in 2014, and Rodman averaged 3 PPG, 8 RPG on 46% FG (compared to Bosh's 14 PPG, 5 RPG, 55% FG).

Also, the Bulls were facing the #1 offense in the league in the 1998 Finals - the 113 ORtg Utah Jazz had just destroyed Hakeem, Duncan/Robinson, and Shaq in quick succession to reach the Finals - this is perhaps the greatest collection of talent ever defeated to reach a Finals.

But rather than shoot 17 times per game and get destroyed like Lebron did in 2014, Jordan shot 28 times per game and kept his team in it - that way, he allowed himself the opportunity to be GOAT at the end (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCTp57LQro)... Why can't Lebron do this?... :facepalm ... because he's nowhere near GOAT, that's why.. he's a team-hopping beta.
.

[sd3035]

It doesn't matter if Wade would have went off last year. The Spurs would have still won. They were too hot and too good defensively. The team was just exhausted.

Anyway,

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade


this is a pretty good list

[John Tesh]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.

LeBron cost Wade a 3 peat by his pathetic performance in 2011. :confusedshrug:

[John Tesh]

Fine, Lebron James 3 ppg in the 4th quarter in 2014. :bowdown:

:oldlol:

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron, Kobe, and Wilt don't belong on these lists. D-Wade has a better case than those guys.

[LAZERUSS]

LeBron, Kobe, and Wilt don't belong on these lists. D-Wade has a better case than those guys.

Wilt played in SIX Finals, essentially won TWO FMVPs, was the best player on the floor in FOUR of them, and overall dominated his opposing centers, all in the HOF.

He posted Finals of:

29 ppg, 28 rpg, .517 FG% (holding Russell to an 11-25 .386 series)

18 ppg, 29 rpg, .560 FG% (holding Thurmond to a 14-27 .343 series)

23 ppg, 24 rpg, .625 FG% (holding Reed to a 23 ppg, 11 rpg, .483 series)

and 19 ppg, 23 rpg, .600 FG% (holding Lucas to a 20 ppg, 10 rpg, .500 series, and basically nothing afer game one.)

FOUR DOMINANT series, and with only TWO of them in his PRIME.

[Wade's Rings]

Otherwise, I really liked how Dirk played in 2011 - Lebron followed Wade's lead of mocking Dirk's cold, and then Dirk bossing them both over and over the rest of the series and into submission.

In Game 5, Wade played solid in the Clutch and throughout the limited minutes he played.

In Game 6, Wade was dealing with a hip injury (reason why his minutes were limited in Game 5).

[dubeta]

In Game 5, Wade played solid in the Clutch and throughout the limited minutes he played.

In Game 6, Wade was dealing with a hip injury (reason why his minutes were limited in Game 5).

Nice excuses

[3ball]

Fine, Lebron James 3 PPG in the 4th quarter of 2014 Finals


True... And when did Lebron get the idea that his team was loaded enough to win a Finals with him only taking 17 shots per game and averaging 28 PPG?

Jordan never thought his supporting cast was anywhere near that good - when he was Lebron's age, he was taking 31 shots per game and averaging 41 PPG in the Finals... And even that cut it too close - both the Suns and Bulls averaged EXACTLY 106.7 PPG and 113.0 ORtg in that series.

Clearly, Jordan's aggressive methodology is more inspiring to teammates on both ends of the floor than Lebron's passive, efficiency-protection approach.

Also, people say that Lebron is the team leader on defense, but we know that's just hyperbole and based on ancedotes; he's never shown sustained dominance on that end.

In the 2014 Finals, Lebron's defensive assignment played better than anyone in the series and got Finals MVP.

[sd3035]

Fine, Lebron James 3 ppg in the 4th quarter in 2014. :bowdown:


http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/hbal.gif

[FlashDwyaneWade3]

Not Wade. I will NEVER forgive him for costing Lebron a 3 peat with his pathetic performance last June.
I'll never forgive LeBron for costing D-Wade his 2nd NBA title in 2011 after he choked. Pathetic.

[Wade's Rings]

I'll never forgive LeBron for costing D-Wade his 2nd NBA title in 2011 after he choked. Pathetic.

Arguably the GOAT choke, Pathetic.

[Lebron23]

I'll never forgive LeBron for costing D-Wade his 2nd NBA title in 2011 after he choked. Pathetic.


Same with Wade's performance in the 2014 NBA Finals.

[Wade's Rings]

Same with Wade's performance in the 2014 NBA Finals.

Heat still lose if Wade plays up-to-par in 2014. Not the case in 2011.

[Lebron23]

Heat still lose if Wade plays up-to-par in 2014. Not the case in 2011.


Not if Bosh also "shows up" in the NBA Finals.

[Wade's Rings]

Not if Bosh also "shows up" in the NBA Finals.

2011 or 2014?

[Lebron23]

2011 or 2014?

Bosh only averaged 14.0 ppg, and 5.2 rpg in the 2014 NBA Finals.

[SouBeachTalents]

Blame Lebron for falling far short of media predictions that he would be GOAT and 3-peat like MJ - MJ dealt with the same languishing teammates in the 1998 Finals, when Pippen averaged 15 PPG and 41% FG just like Wade in 2014, and Rodman averaged 3 PPG, 8 RPG on 46% FG (compared to Bosh's 14 PPG, 5 RPG, 55% FG).

Also, the Bulls were facing the #1 offense in the league in the 1998 Finals - the 113 ORtg Utah Jazz had just destroyed Hakeem, Duncan/Robinson, and Shaq in quick succession to reach the Finals - this is perhaps the greatest collection of talent ever defeated to reach a Finals.

But rather than shoot 17 times per game and get destroyed like Lebron did in 2014, Jordan shot 28 times per game and kept his team in it - that way, he allowed himself the opportunity to be GOAT at the end (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PRCTp57LQro)... Why can't Lebron do this?... :facepalm ... because he's nowhere near GOAT, that's why.. he's a team-hopping beta.
.

You've made this same sorry ass comparison before. Just :oldlol: at saying Wade and Pippen were equal based on their ppg. Pippen was in the running for Finals MVP through 4 games of that series due to his defense, sure as hell couldn't say the same for Wade. And also :oldlol: at comparing Bosh and Rodman by looking at their ppg, like they played even remotely the same role and Rodman was EVER known for his scoring. Rodman took 13 FGA all series, Bosh took more in Game 5 alone.

Some quotes comparing Pippen and Wade that series


Jackson called Kukoc the X-factor in the game. But Pippen was the deciding factor. He was at his best in the first half, scoring all 10 of his points as the Bulls jumped to a 49-31 lead. Defensifvely, Pippen dominated. He opened the game defending the offensively limited Greg Ostertag. That matchup allowed Pippen to roam and disrupt the Utah offense. He slid in front of Karl Malone on two occasions to draw a charge. He popped outside and made life unbearable for Stockton, who finished with two points and five turnovers.

Indeed, the normally sure-handed Jazz turned the ball over 26 times. With Pippen on the perimeter, every entry pass into the low post became and adventure.

"It's a luxury for us to have a defender like Scottie," Jackson said. "He's able to hang tight with whoever he's playing and recover to help on our defensive sets so Utah can't operate.

"Scottie is capable of being a one-man wrecking crew, and this was a pure example of that. His defense is what really blew the game open."

[QUOTE]Everything bottomed out during those last two Finals games

[dubeta]

You've made this same sorry ass comparison before. Just :oldlol: at saying Wade and Pippen were equal based on their ppg. Pippen was in the running for Finals MVP through 4 games of that series due to his defense, sure as hell couldn't say the same for Wade. And also :oldlol: at comparing Bosh and Rodman by looking at their ppg, like they played even remotely the same role and Rodman was EVER known for his scoring. Rodman took 13 FGA all series, Bosh took more in Game 5 alone.

Some quotes comparing Pippen and Wade that series






This, Wade and Bosh were truly horrific.

[JT123]

Arguably the GOAT choke, Pathetic.
:facepalm Replying to yourself now? Wade trolls have no shame.

[Wade's Rings]

:facepalm Replying to yourself now? Wade trolls have no shame.
:roll: :oldlol: :lol

I don't have an Alt, Clown.

You've already been exposed as Dragic4life/Dubeta/LebronXRings and you still reply to yourself or make threads and have only your alts reply :applause:

[dubeta]

Wade's Rings* meltdown. Nobodys buying your smileys :oldlol:

Exposed now he's back-pedalling how pathetic.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade's Rings* meltdown. Nobodys buying your smileys :oldlol:

Exposed now he's back-pedalling how pathetic.

Switched to his Alt :facepalm

Stop replying and save yourself the embarrasment :oldlol:

[Young X]

No Magic mentions? His '87 finals might be the best ever. His game 6 against the 76ers as a rookie is one of the most impressive performances in finals history. Maybe the most consistent finals performer out of everybody, even the series where his team lost were still solid.

[LAZERUSS]

No Magic mentions? His '87 finals might be the best ever. His game 6 against the 76ers as a rookie is one of the most impressive performances in finals history. Maybe the most consistent finals performer out of everybody, even the series where his team lost were still solid.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[sportjames23]

Nope, sorry.


LOL, better than any Finals Lebron ever had. Hell, MJ's worst Finals are better than any of Lebron's.

[SouBeachTalents]

LOL, better than any Finals Lebron ever had. Hell, MJ's worst Finals are better than any of Lebron's.

I'd say LeBron's 2012 & 2013 were better than Jordan's '96, and his 2012 would have an argument with Jordan's '98

[Wade's Rings]

I'd say LeBron's 2012 & 2013 were better than Jordan's '96, and his 2012 would have an argument with Jordan's '98

Maybe not 2013 because Jordan faced an All-Time 1 on 1 Defender in 96.

Lebron was just held back by himself again through the first 5 games and 3 quarters.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Barry deserves a mention also, although it was only 2 NBA finals. Still, one was a 40.8 and the other was winning without much of a supporting cast.

West averaged 30 over 9 finals. Kind of hard to ignore that. Lebron has never averaged 30.
Barry averaged 39.2 fga for those 40.8 ppg doe :biggums:

[dubeta]

I'd say LeBron's 2012 & 2013 were better than Jordan's '96, and his 2012 would have an argument with Jordan's '98

LeBron's 2014 was also better than Jordan's 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998

57% Fg, 51% from 3, 68% True Shooting percentage, and 28, 8, 4 in limited minutes

One of the highest Finals PER in NBA history

[T_L_P]

LeBron's 2014 was also better than Jordan's 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998

57% Fg, 51% from 3, 68% True Shooting percentage, and 28, 8, 4 in limited minutes

One of the highest Finals PER in NBA history

1/3 of LeBron's points were in garbage time/blowout situations, not to mention his terrible D.

91 Jordan averaged 31/7/11/2/1.5. It was far better than LeBron's.

Also, since you're so obsessed with PER, 06 Wade and 03 Duncan have the two greatest Finals performances ever. :cheers:

[Wade's Rings]

1/3 of LeBron's points were in garbage time/blowout situations, not to mention his terrible D.

91 Jordan averaged 31/7/11/2/1.5. It was far better than LeBron's.

Also, since you're so obsessed with PER, 06 Wade and 03 Duncan have the two greatest Finals performances ever. :cheers:

:bowdown:

[nba_55]

1/3 of LeBron's points were in garbage time/blowout situations, not to mention his terrible D.

91 Jordan averaged 31/7/11/2/1.5. It was far better than LeBron's.

Also, since you're so obsessed with PER, 06 Wade and 03 Duncan have the two greatest Finals performances ever. :cheers:
:facepalm
His horrible D? The defensive system spobot was using was completely exposed by pop, Lebron couldn't do anything to fix that. It was on the coaching staff and they didn't change anything. And no, his points were not in garbage time.

[nba_55]

Through Jordan's 1st three-peat, his Finals averages were 36 PPG and 8 APG, so literally every single Finals game was an all-time performance for 3 straight years - he far more clutch Finals moments in that period than Kobe, Lebron, and Wade combined.

Otherwise, I really liked how Dirk played in 2011 - Lebron followed Wade's lead of mocking Dirk's cold, and then Dirk bossing them both over and over the rest of the series and into submission.

What's Jordan's finals stats without Pippen?

no...... what's his 2nd round stats without Pippen? :yaohappy:

[SouBeachTalents]

What's Jordan's finals stats without Pippen?:yaohappy:

What's LeBron's without Wade?

[nba_55]

What's LeBron's without Wade?

He atleast has stats for that, Jordan's stats are 0 all over the place. :yaohappy:

[SouBeachTalents]

He atleast has stats for that. :yaohappy:

Lol, while that's true, they sure weren't good. And he didn't win a single game either

[nba_55]

Lol, while that's true, they sure weren't good. And he didn't win a single game either

He has many years left to win without Wade, and Jordan.... :yaohappy:

[bdreason]

Russell
Hakeem
Shaq
Jordan
West

[bdreason]

No Magic mentions? His '87 finals might be the best ever. His game 6 against the 76ers as a rookie is one of the most impressive performances in finals history. Maybe the most consistent finals performer out of everybody, even the series where his team lost were still solid.



The final spot was between West and Magic for me. I went with West, because you know a guy is balling out when his team loses in the Finals... and they still give him the MVP.

[3ball]

Through Jordan's 1st three-peat, his Finals averages were 36 PPG and 8 APG.

Literally every single game he played was an all-time performance for 3 straight years - he far more clutch Finals moments in that period than Kobe, Lebron, and Wade have in their entire careers combined.

Otherwise, I really liked how Dirk played in 2011 - Lebron followed Wade's lead of mocking Dirk's cold, and then Dirk bossing them both over and over the rest of the series and into submission.. It's the most sustained example of Jordan-like hero dominance I've seen since Jordan.

[Wade's Rings]

bump

[SouBeachTalents]

Jordan
Shaq
Hakeem
West
Havlicek

[Young X]

Magic Johnson >>>>>

[triangleoffense]

91-93, and then 96 and 98 MJ definitely on the list. That only leaves room for one more.. either one of Shaq's or Kareem's finals'.

[SouBeachTalents]

91-93, and then 96 and 98 MJ definitely on the list. That only leaves room for one more.. either one of Shaq's or Kareem's finals'.

:biggums:

[triangleoffense]

:biggums:
The 72-10 season is not up there? I know it's the finals but GOAT season definitely should be up there especially if he wins MVP.. Jordan is just held up to a higher standard even though all six of his finals can be argued especially if he threepeated twice. Longetivity in the finals.. only Kobe and a few others have won back to back FMVPS, especially if he won back-to-back-to-back FMVPs twice.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Jordan, West, Shaq, Hakeem

[SouBeachTalents]

The 72-10 season is not up there? I know it's the finals but GOAT season definitely should be up there especially if he wins MVP.. Jordan is just held up to a higher standard even though all six of his finals can be argued especially if he threepeated twice. Longetivity in the finals.. only Kobe and a few others have won back to back FMVPS, especially if he won back-to-back-to-back FMVPs twice.

I'd never dispute Jordan having a GOAT level season in '96, but I'd also never consider his '96 Finals to be anywhere near GOAT level either

[SamuraiSWISH]

Otherwise, I really liked how Dirk played in 2011 - Lebron followed Wade's lead of mocking Dirk's cold, and then Dirk bossing them both over and over the rest of the series and into submission.. It's the most sustained example of Jordan-like hero dominance I've seen since Jordan.
Um, what are you talking about? That's mythic hyperbole. That didn't happen at all. Dirk didn't play great in the Finals. And he wasn't bossing people or making them submit.

Game 6 he was putrid, and was carried largely by Jason Terry. Got huge un-expected contributions from Chandler, JJ Barrea, Kidd and Stevenson through out the entire series. The Mavs as a unit rose to the challenge, it wasn't some solo Dirk performance.

Contributing to their win was LeBron going into cowardly ghost mode, and then consequently the Miami Heat beat themselves. Played down to the competition. Probably due to coaching, and on floor lack of leadership / hierarchy.

Dirk also choked and wasn't very good in 2006 v.s. the Heat either. So how on earth as a historian of the game, would he be on your list. Dirk's run in 2011 was nice, but his Finals performance is attached along with it, when he honestly wasn't great. It's overrated.

1) MJ

then ...

2 - 4) West, Hakeem, and Shaq

then Bird / Magic / Duncan

then Wade / LeBron / Kobe

[triangleoffense]

I'd never dispute Jordan having a GOAT level season in '96, but I'd also never consider his '96 Finals to be anywhere near GOAT level either
We all know Jordan is held to a higher standard.. how can you not when your 6/6 in finals and FMVPs.. Goat titles, records, etc.

[Naero]

then Wade / LeBron / Kobe

None of them have been consistently great finals-performers.

Wade: two great finals (2006; 2011); two decent finals (2012; 2013); one atrocious outing (2014).

LeBron: three great finals (2012; 2015); two decent finals (2013; 2014); two shrinkages for the ages (2007; 2011).

Kobe: two great finals (2002; 2009); two decent finals (2001; 2010); three egregious shrinkages (2000; 2004; 2008).

Consistence is the mainstay to merit the reputation of a legendary finals-performers, and they all have been in a sizeable litany of finals appearances without registering truly legendary finals for the majority of them.

Even their best finals performances may not even crack the top-10 finals performances of all time, except for possibly Wade in 2006.

[ArbitraryWater]

We all know Jordan is held to a higher standard.. how can you not when your 6/6 in finals and FMVPs.. Goat titles, records, etc.

You're the same guy who recently made a thread exposing your putrid order of how things happened in your mind... 1996 was a poor finals for MJ, stop talking out of your ass.

[SamuraiSWISH]

None of them have been consistently great finals-performers.
I didn't argue they were. That's why I ranked all those guys ahead of them. And for that very reason.

Wade
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

Dwyane has been the most consistent Finals performer out of all of them actually with only one real stinker and it came when he was very clearly injured.

LeBron
Great Finals: 2012
Good Finals: 2013, 2015
Decent Finals: 2014
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Great Finals: 2009
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008

None of them had legendary finals, Wade was closest but it's dampened by the excessive amount of suspect officiating.

Let's say for comparison

Jordan
Legendary Finals: 1991, 1992, 1993
Great Finals: 1997
Good Finals: 1998
Bad Finals: 1996

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015
Great Finals: 2012, 2014
Good Finals: 2013
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: -
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2009, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008

Jordan
Legendary Finals: 1991, 1992, 1993
Great Finals: 1997
Good Finals: 1998
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 1996

[Young X]

Jordan's '97 finals against Utah is definitely legendary to me.

[ClipperRevival]

Wade
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015
Great Finals: 2012, 2014
Good Finals: 2013
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: -
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2009, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008

Jordan
Legendary Finals: 1991, 1992, 1993
Great Finals: 1997
Good Finals: 1998
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 1996

To me, Kobe was at his absolute best as a superstar who knew the right balance between getting his and getting his teammates involved in the 2009 playoffs (and finals). I thought that was the closest to MJesque type play from Kobe. He was dominant. So I would call that a great finals, and even closing in on legendary because that's the finals that really set him apart from being Shaq's second fiddle.

And Wade's 2006 finals was definitely legendary, not just great.

[ClipperRevival]

Jordan's '97 finals against Utah is definitely legendary to me.

Close to it.

32.3 PPG
7.0 RPG
6.0 APG

Flu game. Game winner in game 1.

[Young X]

How the hell is Lebron's '15 finals legendary and '97 Jordan isn't?

31/8 + game winner in game 1
38/13/9 in game 2
Flu game + game winner in game 5
39/11/4 + assist to Kerr's game winner in game 6

= 5th championship/FMVP

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

How the hell is Lebron's '15 finals legendary and '97 Jordan isn't?

31/8 + game winner in game 1
38/13/9 in game 2
Flu game + game winner in game 5
39/11/4 + assist to Kerr's game winner in game 6

= 5th championship/FMVP

LeBron was on some legend shit, shooting ~30% outside the paint. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

How the hell is Lebron's '15 finals legendary and '97 Jordan isn't?

31/8 + game winner in game 1
38/13/9 in game 2
Flu game + game winner in game 5
39/11/4 + assist to Kerr's game winner in game 6

= 5th championship/FMVP

:cheers: MJ is just held to a higher standard.

Like in 1996, he didn't shoot great FG% wise (.415%) but still gave you 27.3 ppg being guarded by one of the best on ball defenders ever in GP at his peak.

[SamuraiSWISH]

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015
Really?

And Young X is right an argument for 1997 being legendary series. I didn't want to seem overly homerish. He had that legendary game 6 in 1998 but the series as a whole he was very good, especially considering age, but not great.

[ClipperRevival]

Really?

And Young X is right an argument for 1997 being legendary series. I didn't want to seem overly homerish. He had that legendary game 6 in 1998 but the series as a whole he was very good, especially considering age, but not great.

Like I said above, MJ is simply held to a higher standard. You can also make the case that his 1998 series was legendary given the fact that he averaged 33.5 ppg and scored 45 points in clinching game 6 and had that great sequence to end the game. If they lose that game, game 7 is in Utah. It was THAT close to going to 7 but MJ didn't let it happen.

[SamuraiSWISH]

:cheers: MJ is just held to a higher standard

Like in 1996, he didn't shoot great FG% wise (.415%) but still gave you 27.3 ppg being guarded by one of the best on ball defenders ever in GP at his peak.
This is true he's held to a higher standard. His game 3 performance on the road essentially won the series too. If we are ranking from best to worst all of their "bad Finals"

MJ '96
Kobe '08
Wade '14 (injured)
Kobe '00 (injured)
LeBron '07
LeBron '11 / Kobe '04

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LeBron was on some legend shit, shooting ~30% outside the paint. :oldlol:

Let me correct myself: 39-137 (28%) from outside of 5ft during the NBA finals

http://archive.4plebs.org/boards/pol/image/1386/09/1386093883522.gif

[ClipperRevival]

This is true he's held to a higher standard. His game 3 performance on the road essentially won the series too. If we are ranking from best to worst all of their "bad Finals"

MJ '96
Kobe '08
Wade '14 (injured)
Kobe '00 (injured)
LeBron '07
LeBron '11 / Kobe '04

Yup. Game 3 pretty much ended the series as no one comes back from being down 0-3.

And Bron '11 and Kobe '04 laid eggs. They were terrible. Bron for shying away from the moment and Kobe for trying to do too much. LOL.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Yup. Game 3 pretty much ended the series as no one comes back from being down 0-3.

And Bron '11 and Kobe '04 laid eggs. They were terrible. Bron for shying away from the moment and Kobe for trying to do too much. LOL.
Yup in their primes too.

In essence if you boil both guys down to their most significant flaws which held them back from being even greater as players. Those two Finals them.

The 2004 Finals with Kobe's relentless selfishness and god complex. Personal glory hunting.

And LeBron's 2011.

Cowardly. Pouting, lack of reliable take over scoring skills and shying away from the moment even when the chips were stacked in their favor.

And yes MJ's 98 performance is underrated. I might bump his 97 up to legendary and his 98 performance to great. If he doesn't go into super will power mode in Utah during game 6, and it goes 7 games, last on the road ... with Pippen basically done. Bulls lose the series.

MJ knew when to strike and put a team away to keep things from getting out of hand. LeBron's 2015 would have been legendary if he had this ability and feel for the moment. He should have put them away in game 1 and that game 4 at home where they let Golden State back into the series.

And SMH at Arbitrary Water. Ever the LeBron Stan. 2015 is legendary even given that shooting percentage and a weak elimination game. And his man got Finals MVP. If LeBron would've won finals MVP in defeat it would've been legendary.

But then he has Kobe's best Finals as the man for his team, 2009, as simply decent? At worst it was good. At best it was great.

2012 is LeBron's best finals. And it isn't legendary.

[ClipperRevival]

Yup in their primes too.

In essence if you boil both guys down to their most significant flaws which held them back from being even greater as players. Those two Finals them.

The 2004 Finals with Kobe's relentless selfishness and god complex. Personal glory hunting.

And LeBron's 2011.

Cowardly. Pouting, lack of reliable take over scoring skills and shying away from the moment even when the chips were stacked in their favor.

And yes MJ's 98 performance is underrated. I might bump his 97 up to legendary and his 98 performance to great. If he doesn't go into super will power mode in Utah during game 6, and it goes 7 games, last on the road ... with Pippen basically done. Bulls lose the series.

MJ knew when to strike and put a team away to keep things from getting out of hand. LeBron's 2015 would have been legendary if he had this ability and feel for the moment. He should have put them away in game 1 and that game 4 at home where they let Golden State back into the series.

And SMH at Arbitrary Water. Ever the LeBron Stan. 2015 is legendary even given that shooting percentage and a weak elimination game. And his man got Finals MVP. If LeBron would've won finals MVP in defeat it would've been legendary.

But then he has Kobe's best Finals as the man for his team, 2009, as simply decent? At worst it was good. At best it was great.

2012 is LeBron's best finals. And it isn't legendary.

:cheers:

When you have a chance to win a game, you have to capitalize on it. MJ did this better than anyone. There are moments and situations in games where a basket or two or a defensive stop or two can seal games. That's what MJ did.

Bron certainly had chances to steal a couple of games in 2015 but couldn't capitalize. Had he won that series, it would've been legendary stuff no doubt. But he did carry a tremendou load and his efficiency dropped a lot in the 4th, possibly some of it due to fatigue. But he also showed he wasn't a dynamite iso player. But his first 4 games in the series was amazing.

[Stu Jackson]

mj
shaq
the sky captain

tmac would be here if he had kobes teams

kd will be here some day

[Bay Area Baller]

I'd never dispute Jordan having a GOAT level season in '96, but I'd also never consider his '96 Finals to be anywhere near GOAT level either


best 2 way argument on the boards, greaat job :applause: :applause:

[Naero]

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015


I knew LeBron's overrates 2015 finals performance would be mentioned here. Clearly, the four-time MVP was indisputably the best player of that series; however, anytime someone vaunts the epithet of "Legendary" to it

[Wade's Rings]

Wade
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015
Great Finals: 2012, 2014
Good Finals: 2013
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: -
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2009, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008

Jordan
Legendary Finals: 1991, 1992, 1993
Great Finals: 1997
Good Finals: 1998
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 1996

Wade's 2006 Finals is legendary and Bron's 2015 Finals definitely isn't legendary.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Wade
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: 2006
Good Finals: 2011, 2012
Decent Finals: 2013
Bad Finals: 2014

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015
Great Finals: 2012, 2014
Good Finals: 2013
Decent Finals: -
Bad Finals: 2007, 2011

Kobe
Legendary Finals: -
Great Finals: -
Good Finals: 2002
Decent Finals: 2001, 2009, 2010
Bad Finals: 2000, 2004, 2008


2009 "decent finals" Kobe

32/6/7 on 53% TS


2013 "good finals" Lebron

25/11/7 on 53% TS



fuccing delusional as always

[ArbitraryWater]

2009 "decent finals" Kobe

32/6/7 on 53% TS


2013 "good finals" Lebron

25/11/7 on 53% TS



fuccing delusional as always

some people take FG% into context more rather than TS%, or defense, or 4th quarter play (where Kobe shot 30% in the 4th quarters/OT in 2009) ;)

[Heavincent]

LeBron
Legendary Finals: 2015


:roll:

[TheMarkMadsen]

some people take FG% into context more rather than TS%, or defense, or 4th quarter play (where Kobe shot 30% in the 4th quarters/OT in 2009) ;)

which is what lebron shot in the 4th of the 2015 finals that you just claimed was legendary..

and lebron lost

while Kobe won

but don't let that get in the way of your agenda..

[Heavincent]

Lebron gets wrecked by Iguodala in one-on-one coverage, Cavs offense is a complete disaster all series (even in the two games they won)...legendary performance though.

[ArbitraryWater]

which is what lebron shot in the 4th of the 2015 finals that you just claimed was legendary..

and lebron lost

while Kobe won

but don't let that get in the way of your agenda..

I know, and that is one of the biggest things what people have on that finals series, but I also see the injuries to his teammates, how awfully they performed with him off the court OR ON IT BUT NOT BEING THE ONE MAKING THE FINAL PASS (to all the bullshit 'LeBron ball hurts the team' talk), the minutes played, scoring, rebounding, playmaking... so in that case, looking at his production and the distributive help, against the top team of the 2015 season with the MVP, losing in 6 close games, thats legendary to me... people said Cavs didn't have a shot once Love went down....

then Kyrie went down...

and we almost got a game 7.

Can't hate on that.

[TheMarkMadsen]

nothing you just typed out makes lebrons 2015 legendary :oldlol: :oldlol:

[TheMarkMadsen]

Lebron gets wrecked by Iguodala in one-on-one coverage, Cavs offense is a complete disaster all series (even in the two games they won)...legendary performance though.

the cavs had historically bad offense in the finals

but the guy running the offense and making every decision while holding the ball the entire time had a legendary performance.. lmao what

and Kobe's 09 finals was "decent" because he shot 30% in the 4th even though he put up 32/6/7 and won the series, but bran's 15 series was legendary even though he shot 30% in the 4th and lost the series..

dat logic

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[ArbitraryWater]

As always, since LeBron's all-around game so convincingly trumps Kobe's, and all talk BESIDES FG% is being avoided... Isn't FG% the ONE thing you guys so desperately avoided all these years? :oldlol:

I won't go through all this again, Kobetards going tunnel vision.

But here, I'll leave this...

Most Points scored & assisted per game in NBA Finals History

-LeBron James 2015: 57.7
-Michael Jordan 1993: 55.3
-Michael Jordan 1991: 54.4
-Jerry West 1969: 52.7

Game 5 (ESPN Stats & Info)
Cavaliers shot 6-of-25 from the field and 1-of-11 from 3-point range when LeBron James didn

[Rocketswin2013]

Lebron's 2015 finals was definitely a GOAT- level impact series. There is no other player in that series who could swing the game-to-game results so immensely with or without their precense.

You take lebron out the entire series and you are looking at the biggest, worst drubbing in NBA playoff history. Ypu take any other player out and regardless of W/L outcome, the margin of victories would be... Reasonable.

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-30-2015/Aryjf6.gif


MJ's 1993 Finals was particularly impressive because he showed that good efficiency at very high volume (33 fga) CAN keep up with a stacked, juggernaut offense and squeak by for the win.

The 1993 Finals were remarkable because both teams averaged exactly 106.7 ppg and 113.0 ORtg, so MJ's 41/9/6 on 51% was barely enough to keep up with the Suns.. Certainly, if MJ had shot 39% instead of 51%, the Bulls would've probably been swept.

Otoh, compare that with Lebron's 2015 Finals - he shot 39% but still won two games - surely, he would've won the series easily if he shot 51% - he would've averaged over 40 ppg like MJ and his level of domination would've been so much higher.. There is no way Lebron loses the 2015 Finals by averaging 40+ ppg on 50%.. But Lebron shot poorly and has no excuse for it because he was never doubled like MJ was, and he enjoyed the most secluded isolations in the history of the game.. But the statistical reality is that Lebron isn't capable of good efficiency at high volume because he's bad at the additional midrange and isolations required of high volume shooting - you can't get 33 fga on all 3-and-D.

Btw, Lebron's poor shooting at high volume in the 2015 playoffs ended any questions about whether the Heat could've won the 2014 Finals if Lebron had shot more - we know that he simply can't maintain his efficiency at very high volumes.. 39% wouldn't have beat the Spurs either.

Of course, there's no danger in letting Lebron shoot 39%, so Lebron's inability to have good efficiency at high volume allowed the Warriors to permit his secluded 1-on-1 clearouts all series long without bothering to take the ball out of his hands.

Lebron's lack of midrange ability didn't just prevent him from good efficiency at high volumes and subsequent double-teams, but it prevents him from being as good in the 80's, when midrange was the primary option remaining in the absence of the 3-pointers necessary to make screen-roll/drive-and-kick mathematically worthwhile.

[TheMarkMadsen]

that's really cool AW, I'm very impressed that a guy can hold the ball for 24 seconds on the shot clock and put up tons of stats on bad efficiency while getting destroyed in the last 3 games of the series..

he should be scoring or assisting on every play when he's holding the ball 99.8% of the time :oldlol:

notice how those other guys on the list won those series minus West in 69' which was due to another 2/6er in Wilt..

single coverage all series, held the ball for 24 seconds every possession, shot 30% in the 4th, missed multiple shots to win multiple games, played like dog shit in over time, played terrible in the game with a chance to go up 3-1, couldn't play effectively with TT and Mozgof together on the floor..

oh you forgot something too

most missed shots in NBA finals series history

Lebron James 2015

legendary doe :applause:

there is nothing legendary about losing while playing a style that doesn't even allow for your two best teammates to be on the floor at the same time

[TheMarkMadsen]

You take lebron out the entire series and you are looking at the biggest, worst drubbing in NBA playoff history.

funny that you would say that because the worst drubbing in nba finals history came against the HEAT in 2014 which Lebron played the most minutes out of anybody in the series..


+70 is largest point differential in Finals history, surpassing Celtics' +65 in 1965. (h/t @SportsVentz & Elias)

[PHILA]

http://i.imgur.com/4MBirzT.jpg

[Wade's Rings]

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]As always, since LeBron's all-around game so convincingly trumps Kobe's, and all talk BESIDES FG% is being avoided... Isn't FG% the ONE thing you guys so desperately avoided all these years? :oldlol:

I won't go through all this again, Kobetards going tunnel vision.

But here, I'll leave this...

Most Points scored & assisted per game in NBA Finals History

-LeBron James 2015: 57.7
-Michael Jordan 1993: 55.3
-Michael Jordan 1991: 54.4
-Jerry West 1969: 52.7

Game 5 (ESPN Stats & Info)
Cavaliers shot 6-of-25 from the field and 1-of-11 from 3-point range when LeBron James didn

[Poochymama]

2015 was not a legendary finals performance, and I hesitate to even call it good, given how good of a player Lebron is (top 5 ever if were talking strictly how good he is).

Lebron played below his usual standards that series.

- His shot was off
- He was missing layups
- Played terrible defense

The only thing he really did better than he usually does is rebound. You could see him down there fighting for rebounds because he knew they needed it and Love was gone.

Ignoring efficiency, he put up huge raw totals, but only because he was really the only one capable of doing anything offensively on that team. That team was hot garbage, arguably one of the worst ever in the finals. They were somewhat competitive with the Warriors because the Warriors played horribly relative to how they had been playing all season. The fact that the Cavs, with one of the worst offenses ever(basically one guy with a broken shot doing everything) stole a couple from them is testament to how far below their standards they played. Don't mistake Lebron's raw totals as some legendary unreproducable thing. There are at least several other players (one of them being other versions of Lebron) who would put up far better numbers than he did under the same circumstances.

Put a version of Lebron out there who actually has a great jumpshot and can kill the Warriors for single covering him all series(2014 Lebron) or one who can bully his way down into the lane and either demand a double and shred them with his elite passing or get a 70+% rim shot(while also playing legendary defense) and Cavs probably win the series. No version of any player would make that Cavs team a better team than that Warriors team, but several, including Lebron could win the series, given how the Warriors played.

2012, now that's a legendary series. His post game and ability to get down low were epic. His off ball game was as good as it's ever been. He was playing within an established offense. And his defense was legendary; some of the best defense I've ever seen from a perimeter player.

2014 would be legendary if his defense wasn't terrible, but it wouldn't have mattered anyway, as there was simply no way to beat the spurs given the help he had and how well they were playing.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:oldlol: Bron was taking what 35-38 shots for those 40 points

cavs were also 1-2 when lebron scored 40 points in the finals (and of course on bad efficiency)

using the same criteria Kobe haters use for Kobe I would have to say that Lebron was chucking up shots at the expense of his team..

[Heavincent]

:oldlol: Bron was taking what 35-38 shots for those 40 points

And Iguodala was on an island against Bran all series. Obviously Bran isn't to blame (he really didn't have much help offensively), but excuse me for not being very impressed with him scoring a bunch of points on bad efficiency against single coverage. Big whoop.

As I said, the Cavs won those 2 games in spite of their shitty offense.

[Rocketswin2013]

funny that you would say that because the worst drubbing in nba finals history came against the HEAT in 2014 which Lebron played the most minutes out of anybody in the series..
And in that series it was only competitive when he was on the floor. They were blown out several times as soon as he sat.

[Hey Yo]

funny that you would say that because the worst drubbing in nba finals history came against the HEAT in 2014 which Lebron played the most minutes out of anybody in the series..
So if Wade or Bosh played the most minutes for Miami in the 2014 Finals..... the outcome of the series would have been different or less lopsided??

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol: Bron was taking what 35-38 shots for those 40 points

Great, you found something that those other players were better at.. the stat is what is is, whoop dee doo...


cavs were also 1-2 when lebron scored 40 points in the finals (and of course on bad efficiency)

using the same criteria Kobe haters use for Kobe I would have to say that Lebron was chucking up shots at the expense of his team..

thats.. not quite it :ohwell:

[Hey Yo]

:oldlol: Bron was taking what 35-38 shots for those 40 points
Wade avg. 16 FTA per game and avg. almost 13ppg from the FTL in order to avg 35ppg in 2006 Finals.

[Kblaze8855]

Im amazed at times the numbers/records people straight up fabricate to make a point. Lebron did not miss the most shots in finals history. He wouldnt even have caught Rick Barrys 67 miss total if they went to a game 7.

[Wade's Rings]

Great, you found something that those other players were better at.. the stat is what is is, whoop dee doo...

So lets NOT add Context to the stat :applause:

[TheMarkMadsen]

So if Wade or Bosh played the most minutes for Miami in the 2014 Finals..... the outcome of the series would have been different or less lopsided??

when was that said...

just showing that the worst drubbing in NBA finals history came against a Lebron led team.. dude was saying if Lebron didn't play they would have received the worst finals loss ever.. but that had actually just happened last year.. with lebron on the court..

[warriorfan]

Im amazed at times the numbers/records people straight up fabricate to make a point. Lebron did not miss the most shots in finals history. He wouldnt even have caught Rick Barrys 67 miss total if they went to a game 7.

Rick Barry played at a 20% higher pace than LeBron did though. If LeBron went to game 7 and we adjusted the amount of possessions it would be pretty close I think.

[Wade's Rings]

Wade avg. 16 FTA per game and avg. almost 13ppg from the FTL in order to avg 35ppg in 2006 Finals.

If Wade took 33 shots a Game like Bron based on his 47% FG% he would have scored 30-32 without Free Throws. Throw in Bron's 11 FTA and Wade's 77% FT% that's another 8 points totaling 38-40 points for Wade, you tried though :sleeping

[TheMarkMadsen]

i'm amazed that you're a mod on this sight and have probably seen 50+ post claiming Kobe missed the most shots in nba finals history in 2010 and only decide to start correcting people when lebron is involved..

[Vaniiiia]

The Mark is Mad, son.

[Legends66NBA7]

http://i.imgur.com/4MBirzT.jpg

Pretty cool.

#5 would be a tough one to find.

[Legends66NBA7]

i'm amazed that you're a mod on this sight and have probably seen

I laughed harder than I should have.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I laughed harder than I should have.

i'm going to blame my fone

[Hey Yo]

when was that said...

just showing that the worst drubbing in NBA finals history came against a Lebron led team.. dude was saying if Lebron didn't play they would have received the worst finals loss ever.. but that had actually just happened last year.. with lebron on the court..
You stressed that LeBron played the most minutes in the worst beat down in Finals history.

Would that scenario been any different if Wade or Bosh played the most minutes??

[TheMarkMadsen]

You stressed that LeBron played the most minutes in the worst beat down in Finals history.

Would that scenario been any different if Wade or Bosh played the most minutes??

I just explained this to you :facepalm :facepalm

"just showing that the worst drubbing in NBA finals history came against a Lebron led team.. dude was saying if Lebron didn't play they would have received the worst finals loss ever.. but that had actually just happened last year.. with lebron on the court.."

[Hey Yo]

If Wade took 33 shots a Game like Bron based on his 47% FG% he would have scored 30-32 without Free Throws. Throw in Bron's 11 FTA and Wade's 77% FT% that's another 8 points totaling 38-40 points for Wade, you tried though :sleeping
He practically did..... but the FGA didn't count due to the numerous phantom fouls that were called in Wade's favor that put him on the line 16x per game.

[Hey Yo]

I just explained this to you :facepalm :facepalm

"just showing that the worst drubbing in NBA finals history came against a Lebron led team.. dude was saying if Lebron didn't play they would have received the worst finals loss ever.. but that had actually just happened last year.. with lebron on the court.."
fair enough....

[Wade's Rings]

He practically did..... but the FGA didn't count due to the numerous phantom fouls that were called in Wade's favor that put him on the line 16x per game.

Wade 24 FGA + 16 FTA= 40 FGA(hey yo logic)

Lebron 33 FGA + 11 FTA= 44 FGA(hey yo logic)

:confusedshrug:

You tried though :sleeping

[sd3035]

Mike? Bird? Magic? Hakeem? Duncan? Shaq? Wade?

Wilt? Lebron? :lol


:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[3ball]

Don't mistake Lebron's raw totals as some legendary unreproducable thing. There are at least several other players (one of them being other versions of Lebron) who would put up far better numbers than he did under the same circumstances in 2015 Finals.

However, put a version of Lebron out there who actually has a great jumpshot (2014 Lebron) and Cavs probably win the 2015 Finals. No version of any player would make that Cavs team a better team than that Warriors team, but several, including Lebron could win the series, given how the Warriors played.



The only reason Lebron shot well in 2014 is because he only took 17 fga, so he was able to shoot all 3-and-D... But in 2015, he took 33 fga - you can't get that on all 3-and-D.. You have to shoot a lot of midrange, which means you must have good midrange to shoot well at such a high volume.

However, it's a FACT that he shoots 37% from midrange for his career - this precudes him from ever having good efficiency at high volume.. So you're wrong when you say 2014 Lebron could've won this year's Finals - he simply can't get enough 3-and-D at the 33 fga shot volume to have good efficiency - that's a statistical fact..

His poor efficiency at very high volume is also how we know the Heat wouldn't have won in 2014 if Lebron took 33 fga instead of 17 fga - obviously, 39% wouldn't have beaten the Spurs either... He's never been a good shooter, which is why your claim that a good-shooting Lebron could've won, is false.
.

[Kblaze8855]

i'm amazed that you're a mod on this sight and have probably seen 50+ post claiming Kobe missed the most shots in nba finals history in 2010 and only decide to start correcting people when lebron is involved..

Did I now? As usual people let their perception matter more than reality. Not only will I defend Kobe if I see reason....I've done so on exactly this issue:

www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=314389




A lot of those are just made up. How the hell would they know how
many buzzer beaters Jerry West, Sam Jones, Cousy, Hondo, Gervin, or
Monroe missed?

And some that could be checked on I dont believe he holds. Rick barry
took 40+ shots in I think 5 games of one finals and he had some 10-30
or so games too. If Kobe surpassed Rick Barrys missed shot total for
67 id be shocked. Off the top of my head Barry went like 15-45, 10-30,
and 22 of 48 or 50 before he got hot at the end of the series. How
could Kobe have missed more shots? Even in a 7 game series. Barry
had nights missing more shots than Kobe took most of the time. Dude
took 45-50 shots at least once a week. It didnt stop in the finals. He
put up 40ppg but he probably averaged 38 shots and missed way more
than half.

And if things like that are wrong it throws the whole list into question.
Im all for well done hate if you are making sense. But a lot of these
charts, lists, and so on only look reasonable to people who dont know
enough to question it.

I should start producing these hater chart things. Mine wouldnt be
100% right either but it wouldnt be wrong enough to make me look like
an idiot.




And you are in that topic too.

But people just see what they want to.

I don't care if it's Kobe LeBron or anyone else. I hate people bullshitting the public presenting things I know aren't true as facts. when I come across it I'll point it out.

[BuffaloBill]

No order

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade

[Wade's Rings]

No order

Jordan
Shaq
Duncan
Hakeem
Wade

:applause:

[Hey Yo]

Wade 24 FGA + 16 FTA= 40 FGA(hey yo logic)

Lebron 33 FGA + 11 FTA= 44 FGA(hey yo logic)

:confusedshrug:

You tried though :sleeping
Not my logic at all. I didn't say every foul called in Wade's favor was a shooting foul.

96fta in a 6 game series is very suspect.

:coleman:

[Wade's Rings]

Not my logic at all. I didn't say every foul called in Wade's favor was a shooting foul.

96fta in a 6 game series is very suspect.

:coleman:

You said he practically did since he kept getting called phantom fouls :confusedshrug:

Bron has a series averaging 15.75 FTA :confusedshrug:

[SwayDizzle]

in no order
MJ
Kobe
Shaq
Magic
Hakeem

[Hey Yo]

You said he practically did since he kept getting called phantom fouls :confusedshrug:

Bron has a series averaging 15.75 FTA :confusedshrug:
No I didn't. I said numerous. Which means a combo of both.

Was LeBron's 15.75 FTA in a 6 game series, in the Finals, while registering 24FGA or less?

[Wade's Rings]

No I didn't. I said numerous. Which means a combo of both.

Was LeBron's 15.75 FTA in a 6 game series, in the Finals, while registering 24FGA or less?

Gave you the wrong numbers, it was 14.75 FTA and why does it matter if it wasn't 6 Games? It was 4 Games, and he took 19 FGA per Game.