Most Complete Seasons [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

3ball

03-20-2015, 01:46 PM

Tim Duncan 2002-03

NBA MVP
Best record in the NBA (60-22)
NBA Champion
NBA FMVP

Regular Season: 23.3 PPG, 12.9 RPG, 3.9 APG, 2.9 BPG
NBA Playoffs: 24.7 PPG, 15.4 RPG, 5.3 APG, 3.3 BPG
NBA Finals: 24.2 PPG, 17.0 RPG, 5.3 APG, 5.3 BPG
Finals Game 6 (Closeout): 21 PTS, 20 REB, 10 AST, 8 BLK
Meh, Duncan and Robinson were Utah's bitch back when Malone still had something left - Popovich won 56 games with Duncan/Robinson in 1998, but got destroyed in WCSF by the Jazz in 5 games.

Duncan/Robinson shouldn't feel bad, because Shaq and Hakeem also got destroyed by the Jazz in the 1998 playoffs - Duncan/Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon represent the greatest collection of talented ever defeated to make a Finals (Jazz in 1998)..
.

T_L_P

03-20-2015, 01:48 PM

Meh, Duncan and Robinson were Utah's bitch back when Malone still had something left - Popovich won 56 games with Duncan/Robinson in 1998 but got destroyed in playoffs by Jazz in 5 games.

Duncan/Robinson shouldn't feel bad, because Shaq and Hakeem also got destroyed by the Jazz in the 1998 playoffs - Duncan/Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon represent the greatest collection of talented ever defeated to make a Finals..

I happen to think you're a good poster; don't ruin it by talking about shit that was 5 whole years before the season mentioned.

It's like talking about 00 Nash to discredit what he did in 05. It's silly and completely agenda-driven.

Dragic4Life

03-20-2015, 01:49 PM

Still gay though...

KembaWalker

03-20-2015, 01:49 PM

TheMilkyBarKid

03-20-2015, 01:50 PM

Something that should be taken into consideration when comparing the greats - Were they able to put together an entire season where the league was theirs.

This means mvp, ring and finals mvp.

MJ, kareem, bird, magic, hakeem, shaq, duncan and lebron all have done this.

I'm sure wilt and russell would have too had they been given a greater chance.

Hats off to these greats.

aj1987

03-20-2015, 01:55 PM

LeBron James 2012:

NBA MVP
NBA Champion
NBA FMVP
All-NBA First Team
All Defensive First Team
4th in DPOY Voting

RS....: 27.1 PPG 7.9 RPG 6.2 APG 1.9 SPG 0.8 BPG 60.5% TS
PO....: 30.3 PPG 9.7 RPG 5.6 APG 1.9 SPG 0.9 BPG 57.6% TS
Finals: 28.6 PPG 10.2 RPG 7.4 APG 1.6 SPG 0.4 BPG 55.8% TS

LeBron James 2013:

NBA MVP
NBA Champion
NBA FMVP
All-NBA First Team
All Defensive First Team
2nd in DPOY Voting
Best Record in the NBA (66-16)
2nd Longest Winning Streak Ever

RS....: 26.8 PPG 8.0 RPG 7.3 APG 1.7 SPG 0.9 BPG 64% TS
PO....: 25.9 PPG 8.4 RPG 6.6 APG 1.8 SPG 0.8 BPG 57.6% TS
Finals: 25.3 PPG 10.9 RPG 7.0 APG 2.3 SPG 0.9 BPG 52.9% TS

ninephive

03-20-2015, 02:02 PM

Meh, Duncan and Robinson were Utah's bitch back when Malone still had something left - Popovich won 56 games with Duncan/Robinson in 1998, but got destroyed in WCSF by the Jazz in 5 games.

Duncan/Robinson shouldn't feel bad, because Shaq and Hakeem also got destroyed by the Jazz in the 1998 playoffs - Duncan/Robinson, Shaquille O'Neal and Hakeem Olajuwon represent the greatest collection of talented ever defeated to make a Finals (Jazz in 1998)..
.
Come on, a rookie Duncan against a near prime Karl Malone is not exactly a fair comparison....and he didn't even get outplayed that bad:

Malone: 24.6 / 10.0 / 3.8 / 1.0 (42% shooting)
Duncan: 21.0 / 8.4 / 1.2 / 1.6 (49% shooting)

...that series was a lot closer than it looked in the box score (Jazz scored 1 total point more than the Spurs in the entire series and the Spurs almost stole games 1 & 2 in Utah...they were like 6 points away from being up 3-0 in that series).

Malone is pretty much the one superstar in the past 15 years Duncan hasn't had the pleasure of knocking out of the playoffs.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 02:03 PM

a prime-to-peak Chamberlain from '60 thru '68.

No one else even sniffs what he accomplished.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

aj1987

03-20-2015, 02:04 PM

a prime-to-peak Chamberlain from '60 thru '68.

No one else even sniffs what he accomplished.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
1 ring?
Missing the PO's while averaging 45/24/3?

Dragic4Life

03-20-2015, 02:05 PM

1 ring?
:oldlol:

DatAsh

03-20-2015, 02:18 PM

67 Wilt.

RS: 24.1 PPG, 24.2 RPG, 7.8 APG, 64% TS
PO: 21.7 PPG, 29.1 RPG, 9.0 APG, 55% TS
Finals: 17.7 PPG, 28.5 RPG, 6.8 APG, 50% TS

With GOAT caliber defense.

Team went 68-13 with an SRS of 8.50

24-Inch_Chrome

03-20-2015, 02:24 PM

Still gay though...

No one asked about your personal life.

jlip

03-20-2015, 02:38 PM

Bill Russell- 1963
All Star MVP
League MVP
All NBA 1st Team
Champion

RS: 16.8ppg 23.6rpg 4.5apg
PO: 20.3 ppg 25.1ppg 5.1apg
Finals 20.0ppg 26.0rpg 5.3apg- Would have easily been Finals MVP

BlakFrankWhite

03-20-2015, 02:41 PM

Duncan's '03 is GOAT

Young X

03-20-2015, 02:52 PM

Jordan's '91 season is the most perfect season. Maybe the best regular season and playoff run in history both in one year. No injuries, played every game, won his 1st ring, won MVP, FMVP and the scoring title. Bulls went 14-2 in the playoffs and their only 2 losses were both because of last second gamewinners; maybe the closest a team has come to being undefeated in the playoffs.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:01 PM

1 ring?
Missing the PO's while averaging 45/24/3?

Took that same basic roster in '64, but with a new coach, to a 48-32 season, and a trip to the Finals, where, as always, he plastered Russell.

One ring, and yet, destroyed the GOAT "winner" in EIGHT H2H playoff series.

aj1987

03-20-2015, 03:04 PM

Took that same basic roster in '64, but with a new coach, to a 48-32 season, and a trip to the Finals, where, as always, he plastered Russell.

One ring, and yet, destroyed the GOAT "winner" in EIGHT H2H playoff series.
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/83/83d862ca6be03de5ee238d4456895c9ba2ef149f200dfc1376 6e04ae56b7a237.jpg

Jordan's '91 season is the most perfect season. Maybe the best regular season and playoff run in history both in one year. No injuries, played every game, won his 1st ring, won MVP, FMVP and the scoring title. Bulls went 14-2 in the playoffs and their only 2 losses were both because of last second gamewinners; maybe the closest a team has come to being undefeated in the playoffs.
'01 Lakers? If Shaq makes his FT's in the 4th, they would've gone 16-0.

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 03:05 PM

'00 Shaq
'67 Wilt
'91 Jordan
'94 Hakeem
'03 Duncan
'12 LeBron
'86 Bird
'87 Magic

Probably the 8 most "complete" seasons imo

dubeta

03-20-2015, 03:09 PM

Where's Kobe? :(

OldSchoolBBall

03-20-2015, 03:17 PM

'00 Shaq
'67 Wilt
'91 Jordan
'94 Hakeem
'03 Duncan
'12 LeBron
'86 Bird
'87 Magic

Probably the 8 most "complete" seasons imo

Kareem's 1971 belongs on there.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:18 PM

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/83/83d862ca6be03de5ee238d4456895c9ba2ef149f200dfc1376 6e04ae56b7a237.jpg

No excuses...just FACTS. Something you always avoid.

And kep in mind that basketball is a TEAM game, and the best TEAM usually wins.

Just ask MJ, who couldn't win a ring in his first six seasons, and in fact had a LOSING playoff record in that span.

And you find fault with Chamberlain's "45-23" season, which BTW, wasn't his greatest scoring season...and yet how about MJ's highest scoring season, when he averaged 37 ppg, and was SWEPT in the FIRST ROUND? Jordan didn't win shit until Pippen and Grant came along.

How about a PRIME Kareem...who went to TWO Finals, winning ONE ring, in his first TEN SEASONS? Or Kareem winning a ring in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414 from the field (including a game seven performance of 4 points, on 2-7 shooting, with three rebounds, and five PF's?

How about Bird, playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career, and "only" winning THREE rings...including a ring in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG% (and his teammate, the seldom heard of Cedric Maxwell winning the FMVP)? Oh, and he lost with HCA SEVEN times.

How about Kobe getting credited for three rings, in which his TEAMMATE dominated them? Or Kobe doing all he could to not win a ring in 2010, with a game seven performance of 6-24 from the floor? Oh, and he single-handedly shot his team's out of the Finals in 2004 and 2008, as well.

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll: "Mr. First Round Exit" himself. The KING of FIRST ROUND ROUND EXITS, and most all of those were blow-outs. THREE Finals in 18 seasons!

Jerry West? "Mr. 1-9" in his Finals. And he can thank WILT for his ONE ring, in a post-season in which he shot .376 (and a Finals in which he shot .325.)

Keep trying though...

BigNBAfan

03-20-2015, 03:19 PM

a prime-to-peak Chamberlain from '60 thru '68.

No one else even sniffs what he accomplished.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Exactly, no one considered to be top 10 of all time have had a bigger regular season to playoffs drop

https://backhomeagain07.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/reggie-choke.jpg

Even reggie's doing the wilt!

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:22 PM

Exactly, no one considered to be top 10 of all time have had a bigger regular season to playoffs drop https://backhomeagain07.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/reggie-choke.jpg

THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYOFF PERFORMER of ALL-TIME.

In his 23 MUST WIN PLAYOFF GAMES...

31.1 ppg
26.4 rpg
.540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

Included were the ONLY THREE 50+ point games. Oh, and a 45-27 MUST WIN FINALS GAME, as well.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

aj1987

03-20-2015, 03:25 PM

No excuses...just FACTS. Something you always avoid.

And kep in mind that basketball is a TEAM game, and the best TEAM usually wins.

Just ask MJ, who couldn't win a ring in his first six seasons, and in fact had a LOSING playoff record in that span.

And you find fault with Chamberlain's "45-23" season, which BTW, wasn't his greatest scoring season...and yet how about MJ's highest scoring season, when he averaged 37 ppg, and was SWEPT in the FIRST ROUND? Jordan didn't win shit until Pippen and Grant came along.

How about a PRIME Kareem...who went to TWO Finals, winning ONE ring, in his first TEN SEASONS? Or Kareem winning a ring in a Finals in which he averaged 13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shot .414 from the field (including a game seven performance of 4 points, on 2-7 shooting, with three rebounds, and five PF's?

How about Bird, playing alongside HOF-laden rosters his entire career, and "only" winning THREE rings...including a ring in which he averaged 15 ppg on a .419 FG% (and his teammate, the seldom heard of Cedric Maxwell winning the FMVP)? Oh, and he lost with HCA SEVEN times.

How about Kobe getting credited for three rings, in which his TEAMMATE dominated them? Or Kobe doing all he could to not win a ring in 2010, with a game seven performance of 6-24 from the floor? Oh, and he single-handedly shot his team's out of the Finals in 2004 and 2008, as well.

Hakeem? :roll: :roll: :roll: "Mr. First Round Exit" himself. The KING of FIRST ROUND ROUND EXITS, and most all of those were blow-outs. THREE Finals in 18 seasons!

Jerry West? "Mr. 1-9" in his Finals. And he can thank WILT for his ONE ring, in a post-season in which he shot .376 (and a Finals in which he shot .325.)

Keep trying though...
Deflecting and excuses. Keep trying though, grandpa.

Milbuck

03-20-2015, 03:29 PM

LeBron James.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:34 PM

Deflecting and excuses. Keep trying though, grandpa.

Once again...just exposing the idiot that you are.

But thanks for playing...

navy

03-20-2015, 03:39 PM

I happen to think you're a good poster;
Seems that the only one in the wrong here is you.

J Shuttlesworth

03-20-2015, 03:42 PM

Any MVP/FMVP season really.

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 03:47 PM

Any MVP/FMVP season really.

Except Willis Reed

SexSymbol

03-20-2015, 03:48 PM

THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYOFF PERFORMER of ALL-TIME.

In his 23 MUST WIN PLAYOFF GAMES...

31.1 ppg
26.4 rpg
.540 FG% (in post-seasons that shot .435 in the same span.)

Included were the ONLY THREE 50+ point games. Oh, and a 45-27 MUST WIN FINALS GAME, as well.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

There's biased, there's complete nonsense, and then there's this utter bullshit.
Imagine if somebody actually would believe it? How would you feel goddamn, there's children here.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:50 PM

There's biased, there's complete nonsense, and then there's this utter bullshit.
Imagine if somebody actually would believe it? How would you feel goddamn, there's children here.

Of course, unlike YOU, I merely posted actual FACTS.

aj1987

03-20-2015, 03:51 PM

Once again...just exposing the idiot that you are.

But thanks for playing...
I'm the idiot? You're the turd who basically believes made up BS and portrays them as facts, all the while ignoring ACTUAL FACTS and numbers.

Wilt was a choker and statpadder. Dude played for his numbers and nothing more. Deal with it.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:51 PM

I'm the idiot? You're the turd who basically believes made up BS and portrays them as facts, all the while ignoring ACTUAL FACTS and numbers.

Wilt was a choker and statpadder. Dude played for his numbers and nothing more. Deal with it.

PROVE IT.

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 03:54 PM

PROVE IT.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but Wilt's career 7 ppg drop off in the playoffs and 11 ppg drop off in the Finals would probably be a good starting point

aj1987

03-20-2015, 03:57 PM

PROVE IT.
.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 03:59 PM

I don't have a dog in this fight, but Wilt's career 7 ppg drop off in the playoffs and 11 ppg drop off in the Finals would probably be a good starting point

Of course, you are ignoring CONTEXT. A "scoring" Wilt played in 52 of his 160 post-season games, and in only ONE Finals, out of his SIX. Oh, and 30 of those 52 games were against RUSSELL.

Give me a list of GOATs who averaged 30 ppg, 27 rpg, 5 apg, and shot 10 percentage points over the post-season league eFG%...and likely 8+ bpg, as well,..over the course of their first 67 playoff games. Hell, find me a GOAT who averaged that over the course of ONE playoff SERIES. I doubt you could find a GOAT with ONE playoff GAME with that stat-line...much less over a 67 game span.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:01 PM

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Default NBA choking rating

Advanced Formula: Losses with HCA + playoff ppg drop + finals ppg drop + playoff rpg drop + finals rpg drop + playoff apg drop + finals apg drop + playoff fg% drop + finals fg% drop + playoff ft% drop + finals ft% drop - rings

Wilt Chamberlain: 5 + (30.1-22.5) + (30.1-18.6) + (22.9-24.9) + (22.9-24.6) + (4.4-4.2) + (4.4-3.8) + (54.0-52.2) + (54.0-55.9) + (51.1-46.5) + (51.1-37.5) - 2 = 37.3

That nonsense again?

Find me any legitimate NBA historian who has ever used a formula so full of holes.

GTFO.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:03 PM

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 04:03 PM

Of course, you are ignoring CONTEXT. A "scoring" Wilt played in 52 of his 160 post-season games, and in only ONE Finals, out of his SIX. Oh, and 30 of those 52 games were against RUSSELL.

Give me a list of GOATs who averaged 30 ppg, 27 rpg, 5 apg, and shot 10 percentage points over the post-season league eFG%...and likely 8+ bpg, as well,..over the course of their first 67 playoff games. Hell, find me a GOAT who averaged that over the course of ONE playoff SERIES. I doubt you could find a GOAT with ONE playoff GAME with that stat-line...much less over a 67 game span.

I'm assuming you consider him a "scoring Wilt" through the '66 season? If so, regular season to postseason ppg drop remains exactly the same, he goes from a 40 ppg regular season scorer to a 33 ppg postseason scorer

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:08 PM

I'm assuming you consider him a "scoring Wilt" through the '66 season? If so, regular season to postseason ppg drop remains exactly the same, he goes from a 40 ppg regular season scorer to a 33 ppg postseason scorer

Except, he didn't make the playoffs in a season in which he averaged 44.8 ppg (and also led the NBA in FIFTEEN statistical categories, including WIN SHARES and PER.)

BTW, please post his averages against his OPPOSING CENTERS in those six playoff runs, as compared to how he did against them in his regular season H2H's. For instance, he had HIGHER PPG averages against RUSSELL in '64, '65, and basically the exact same in '66 (except he shot much higher from the floor in the post-season H2H's.) In his '60 and '62 post-seasons against Russell, he STILL averaged 34 and 31 ppg.

aj1987

03-20-2015, 04:09 PM

That nonsense again?

Find me any legitimate NBA historian who has ever used a formula so full of holes.

GTFO.
.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Still stands. Dude is the GOAT choker.

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 04:13 PM

BTW, Wilt's "decline" in his SIX Finals.

In those six regular seasons, he averaged 23 ppg and 21 rpg. In those six finals, he averaged 19-24. Oh, and he outshot his opposing centers, ALL in the HOF, by a collective margin of .559 to .439 from the floor.

A huge decline alright.

1964
RS: 35 ppg
F: 29 ppg

1967
RS: 24 ppg
F: 18 ppg

1969
RS: 21 ppg
F: 12 ppg

1970
RS: 27 ppg
F: 23 ppg

1972
RS: 15 ppg
F: 19 ppg

1973
RS: 13 ppg
F: 12 ppg

J Shuttlesworth

03-20-2015, 04:14 PM

Damn 1969 is unacceptable.

RIP Laz

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:17 PM

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

Still stands. Dude is the GOAT choker.

Even if we were to use these stats, ALL of which are taken completely out of CONTEXT, Wilt "the choker" averaged a 22-24 stat-line in his post-season CAREER, all while not only shooting about 10 percentage points above the post-season league eFG% average. And he did so while CRUSHING his peers on the glass, and DRAMATICALLY lowering their FG% shooting. Oh, and he likely had a career post-season average of 8+ bpg. In the known games that we do have, he blocked 570 shots in 80 games, or over 7 bpg.

Again, give me the list of GOATs who averaged a 20-20 in their career post-seasons, and likly outshooting their peers by well over 10 percentage points in the process (and often as much as 20+.)

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:18 PM

Damn 1969 is unacceptable.

RIP Laz

How about '60, '62, '64, '65, '66, '67, '68, '70, '71, '72, and '73?

aj1987

03-20-2015, 04:19 PM

Even if we were to use these stats, ALL of which are taken completely out of CONTEXT, Wilt "the choker" averaged a 22-24 stat-line in his post-season CAREER, all while not only shooting about 10 percentage points above the post-season league eFG% average. And he did so while CRUSHING his peers on the glass, and DRAMATICALLY lowering their FG% shooting. Oh, and he likely had a career post-season average of 8+ bpg. In the known games that we do have, he blocked 570 shots in 80 games, or over 7 bpg.

Again, give me the list of GOATs who averaged a 20-20 in their career post-seasons, and likly outshooting their peers by well over 10 percentage points in the process (and often as much as 20+.)
Likely? GTFO, fool.

.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

1964
RS: 35 ppg
F: 29 ppg

1967
RS: 24 ppg
F: 18 ppg

1969
RS: 21 ppg
F: 12 ppg

1970
RS: 27 ppg
F: 23 ppg

1972
RS: 15 ppg
F: 19 ppg

1973
RS: 13 ppg
F: 12 ppg

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:23 PM

1964
RS: 35 ppg
F: 29 ppg

1967
RS: 24 ppg
F: 18 ppg

1969
RS: 21 ppg
F: 12 ppg

1970
RS: 27 ppg
F: 23 ppg

1972
RS: 15 ppg
F: 19 ppg

1973
RS: 13 ppg
F: 12 ppg

'64 Finals. 29.2 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 29.1 ppg.

'67 Finals. 17.5 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Thurmond. 20.8 ppg.

'69 Finals. 11.7 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 16.0 ppg.

'70 Finals. 23.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Reed, 12.0 ppg.

'72 Finals. 19.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Lucas, 16.8 ppg.

'73 Finals. 11.6 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Reed, 12.2 ppg.

Yep...dramatic declines.

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 04:27 PM

'64 Finals. 29.2 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 29.1 ppg.

'67 Finals. 17.5 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Thurmond. 20.8 ppg.

'69 Finals. 11.7 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 16.0 ppg.

'70 Finals. 23.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Reed, 12.0 ppg.

'72 Finals. 19.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Lucas, 16.8 ppg.

'73 Finals. 11.6 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Reed, 12.2 ppg.

Yep...dramatic declines.

Does that include Wilt's 45 point Game 6 that Reed missed?

aj1987

03-20-2015, 04:27 PM

'64 Finals. 29.2 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 29.1 ppg.

'67 Finals. 17.5 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Thurmond. 20.8 ppg.

'69 Finals. 11.7 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Russell, 16.0 ppg.

'70 Finals. 23.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Reed, 12.0 ppg.

'72 Finals. 19.2 ppg. Regular season H2H with Lucas, 16.8 ppg.

'73 Finals. 11.6 ppg. Regular season H2H's with Reed, 12.2 ppg.

Yep...dramatic declines.
Holy shit! Stop deflecting and trying to change the argument, dude. You're 3ball and Euroleague level delusional. You seriously need to check into a mental institution.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:38 PM

Does that include Wilt's 45 point Game 6 that Reed missed?

So what?

In all of their post-season games, how many 45-27 games, on 20-27 shooting, did Kareem, Hakeem, and Shaq have? And let's be realistic here, those guys faced many clowns in their post-seasons. Hell, Hakeem didn't face a legitimate NBA center in his first three playoff series in his '94 run.

BTW, Wilt accomplished that only FOUR months after major knee surgery.

Oh, BTW, a PRIME Chamberlain had games of 46, 52, and 58 points against Reed in his career. In fact, he had a season, in which he faced Reed 12 times, in which he averaged 38.6 ppg.

And, in their '68 H2H's, Wilt outscored a PEAK Reed, 28.0 ppg to 20.0 ppg; outrebounded Reed, 22.0 rpg to 10.0 rpg, and outshot Reed from the floor by a .688 to .459 margin.

John Tesh

03-20-2015, 04:42 PM

I can't remember the years, but ones that stand out to me are:

Jordan
Olajuwon
Shaq
Duncan

SouBeachTalents

03-20-2015, 04:42 PM

So what?

BTW, he did so only FOUR months after major knee surgery.

Oh, BTW, a PRIME Chamberlain had games of 46, 52, and 58 points against Reed in his career. In fact, he had a season, in which he faced Reed 12 times, in which he averaged 38.6 ppg.

And, in their '68 H2H's, Wilt outscored a PEAK Reed, 28.0 ppg to 20.0 ppg; outrebounded Reed, 22.0 rpg to 10.0 rpg, and outshot Reed from the floor by a .688 to .459 margin.

Lol, so what? Your ENTIRE argument in that post was how Wilt did compared to his H2H against his opposing center in the Finals, yet you include a game he dropped 45 points without Reed even playing? That makes his 23 ppg average literally impossible since he never scored over 22 points in any game Reed played in

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:43 PM

Holy shit! Stop deflecting and trying to change the argument, dude. You're 3ball and Euroleague level delusional. You seriously need to check into a mental institution.

Sorry to continue you to pound you with FACTS...

BTW, MJ's scoring and efficiency dropped against the "Bad Boys" in his series from '88 thru '91 (and really, the prime Pistons were from '88 thru '90.)

Shaq's scoring and efficiency dropped dramatically against the Robinson-led Spurs from '99 thru '02.

And Kareem's scoring and efficiency fell off the cliff in his post-season H2H's against Wilt and Thurmond from '71 thru '73.

How come?

How come Wilt gets ripped when his post-season numbers declined and with EIGHT series (and THREE more against Thurmond) against RUSSELL?

dubeta

03-20-2015, 04:44 PM

Wilt was such as choker :roll:

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:50 PM

Lol, so what? Your ENTIRE argument in that post was how Wilt did compared to his H2H against his opposing center in the Finals, yet you include a game he dropped 45 points without Reed even playing? That makes his 23 ppg average literally impossible since he never scored over 22 points in any game Reed played in

Not his fault that Reed didn't play.

Furthermore, how come you don't acknowledge WILT's injury and subsequent surgery?

How about this...Chamberlain played three games in the regular season following his surgery, and averaged 12.7 ppg, 12.0 rpg, and shot .500 from the floor. In his post-season, he averaged 22 ppg, 22 rpg, and shot .549. And, in the Finals... 23 ppg, 24 rpg, and on a .625 FG%.

DRAMATIC INCREASES...

BigNBAfan

03-20-2015, 04:53 PM

wilt is prob the most overrated player in Hx

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 04:54 PM

BTW, Wilt had a seven game series against RUSSELL, of 30.1 ppg, 31.4 rpg, and on a .555 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 shooting, with 32 rebounds.

And he took his 40-40 team to within TWO points of upsetting the 62-18 Celtics on their home floor.

Arguably the greatest post-season series ever played.

Oh, and he also had a MUST WIN playoff game against RUSSELL, in which he scored 50 points, on 22-42 shooting (in a post-season NBA that shot .402), with 35 rebounds.

Arguably the greatest playoff GAME in post-season history.

Poochymama

03-20-2015, 08:46 PM

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 08:51 PM

Damn, it's rare to see anyone getting ethered the way Laz is in this thread.

Just cold hard facts. I'm sure he'll bring up H2H stats or use raw totals to try and compare with modern raw totals as if that means anything to anyone with a brain.

Fact is, Wilt declined hard in the playoffs and even harder in the finals than any other all time great. Even cherry picking his scoring seasons he's at 20ppg at best after adjusting for pace.

Easily the biggest choker of anyone in the top 20, and he's actually calling him the most clutch. :roll: :roll: :roll:

Yep...a Chamberlain who averaged 29.2 ppg on 24 FGAs in the '64 Finals, as compared to a Hakeem who averaged 32.8 ppg on 29 FGAs in the '95 Finals. BTW, adjust Wilt's FG% from the .420 eFG% that was shot in the '64 post-season, to Hakeem's .500 eFG% of the '95 post-season, and he would have shot .615 in the '95 post-season. Give him Hakeem's FGAs, and he would have averaged 40 ppg in the '95 Finals.

Poochymama

03-20-2015, 10:32 PM

Yep...a Chamberlain who averaged 29.2 ppg on 24 FGAs in the '64 Finals, as compared to a Hakeem who averaged 32.8 ppg on 29 FGAs in the '95 Finals. BTW, adjust Wilt's FG% from the .420 eFG% that was shot in the '64 post-season, to Hakeem's .500 eFG% of the '95 post-season, and he would have shot .615 in the '95 post-season. Give him Hakeem's FGAs, and he would have averaged 40 ppg in the '95 Finals.

Just because players in the 60s couldn't shoot for s*** doesn't mean you get to adjust his efficiency up. If anything his efficiency would drop in today's game.

Also :roll: at trying to cherry pick FGA to try and hide the fact that he missed 60% of his ass ton of freethrows that series. That's all you ever do is cherry pick and try to deceive people.

Bottom line is Hakeem averaged 4 more ppg on a team with 22% less possessions, and he did it on 1% better efficiency(51 TS% vs 50 TS%). And this is "scoring" Wilt being compared to Hakeem. Try comparing Wilt to Shaq or Jordan as a finals performer and it's not even a comparison.

Inb4 TS is a garbage stat

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 10:43 PM

Just because players in the 60s couldn't shoot for s*** doesn't mean you get to adjust his efficiency up. If anything his efficiency would drop in today's game.

Also :roll: at trying to cherry pick FGA to try and hide the fact that he missed 60% of his ass ton of freethrows that series. That's all you ever do is cherry pick and try to deceive people.

Bottom line is Hakeem averaged 4 more ppg on a team with 22% less possessions, and he did it on 1% better efficiency(51 TS% vs 50 TS%). And this is "scoring" Wilt being compared to Hakeem. Try comparing Wilt to Shaq or Jordan as a finals performer and it's not even a comparison.

Inb4 TS is a garbage stat

I could also name player-after-player who shot better in the late 60's, than they did in the early 60's (including WILT.) Then, I could name player-after-player that shot better in the 70's than they did in the 60's. Then I could name player-after-player who shot MUCH better in the 80's, than they did in the 70's.

Then, I could name player-after-player who shot WORSE in the 90's than they did in the 80's...

wait...that would mean that the players became LESS skilled in the 90's. Guys like Robinson, Ewing, and Hakeem,...all WORSE in the 90's than in the 80's.

You are a complete IDIOT if you believe that ERA FG%'s don't matter. For instance, Chamberlain played as many as FIVE games in FIVE nights. And he ad several FOUR-IN-FOUR's, as well. Back-to-back's...that was the NORM in the early-to-mid 60's.

A few years ago the NBA went on strike, and they had to condense the schedule in the second half of the season, for a couple of months. FG% efficiency declined DRAMATICALLY in that period, and it only came close to normal when the regular schedule resumed.

And Chamberlain was shooting as high as .727 in his career, in leagues that shot .456. In today's era, when the eFG%'s are at nearly .500...well, he likely would shatter the .800 mark. Especially against the plethora of 6-9 centers like Jordan, Drummond, Howard, and Cousins.

Wilt's TS%'s compared to league average were at times, 10-15 percentage points above the league average.

And yes, if a 38-39 year old Kareem could average 32 ppg on a .630 FG% in the course of TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem (and Gilmore was at 24 ppg on .677 shooting against Hakeem in 10 straight games in that same period)...and if a 40 year old Kareem could outscore a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshoot him by a .567 to .403 margin in their four seasonal H2H's...well, a PRIME Chamberlain would just have CARPET-BOMBED Hakeem.

Poochymama

03-20-2015, 10:47 PM

I could also name player-after-player who shot better in the late 60's, than they did in the early 60's (including WILT.) Then, I could name player-after-player that shot better in the 70's than they did in the 60's. Then I could name player-after-player who shot MUCH better in the 80's, than they did in the 70's.

Then, I could name player-after-player who shot WORSE in the 90's than they did in the 80's...

wait...that would mean that the players became LESS skilled in the 90's. Guys like Robinson, Ewing, and Hakeem,...all WORSE in the 90's than in the 80's.

You are a complete IDIOT if you believe that ERA FG%'s don't matter. For instance, Chamberlain played as many as FIVE games in FIVE nights. And he ad several FOUR-IN-FOUR's, as well. Back-to-back's...that was the NORM in the early-to-mid 60's.

A few years ago the NBA went on strike, and they had to condense the schedule in the second half of the season, for a couple of months. FG% efficiency declined DRAMATICALLY in that period, and it only came close to normal when the regular schedule resumed.

And Chamberlain was shooting as high as .727 in his career, in leagues that shot .456. In today's era, when the eFG%'s are at nearly .500...well, he likely would shatter the .800 mark. Especially against the plethora of 6-9 centers like Jordan, Drummond, Howard, and Cousins.

Wilt's TS%'s compared to league average were at times, 10-15 percentage points above the league average.

And yes, if a 38-39 year old Kareem could average 32 ppg on a .630 FG% in the course of TEN STRAIGHT games against Hakeem (and Gilmore was at 24 ppg on .677 shooting against Hakeem in 10 straight games in that same period)...and if a 40 year old Kareem could outscore a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshoot him by a .567 to .403 margin in their four seasonal H2H's...well, a PRIME Chamberlain would just have CARPET-BOMBED Hakeem.

Save the era link hypothesis. You've posted it a hundred times already.

Wilt was a great player playing with a bunch of people that don't devote their lives to the game the way people today do. He wouldn't shoot a higher % today than he shot then, you'd be a fool to believe he would.

LAZERUSS

03-20-2015, 10:54 PM

Save the era link hypothesis. You've posted it a hundred times already.

Wilt was a great player playing with a bunch of people that don't devote their lives to the game the way people today do. He wouldn't shoot a higher % today than he shot then, you'd be a fool to believe he would.

A near-prime Chamberlain easily outplayed a young Kareem in their one H2H before he shredded his knee. And, in their first 11 career H2H meetings, when Wilt was still somewhat of a scorer, he was dead-on even with a peaking Kareem. AND, in his last ten straight games, against a PEAK Kareem, he held KAJ to a .434 FG%. A 38-41 year old Kareem not only outscored a 23-26 year old Hakeem, he outshot him by a .607 to .512 margin.

How about these numbers from a Wilt in his LAST season, and at age 36...

Vs. Cowens in 4 H2H's:

Cowens: 31.3 ppg, 19.8 rpg, .454 FG%

Wilt: 14.3 ppg, 14.5 rpg, .588 FG%

vs. Reed in 3 regular season H2H's:

Reed: 12.0 ppg, 10.0 rpg, .471 FG%

Wilt: 6.3 ppg, 23.3 rpg, .529 FG%

vs. Reed in 5 Finals' H2H's:

Reed: 16.4 ppg, 9.2 rpg, .493 FG%

Wilt: 11.6 ppg, 18.6 rpg, .525 FG%

vs. Bellamy in 4 H2H's:

Bellamy: 17.0 ppg, 18.0 rpg ( 2 known games), .400 FG% (2 known game)

Wilt: 9.8 ppg, 20.5 rpg, .593 FG%

vs. Unseld in 4 H2H's:

Unseld: 12.8 ppg, 15.3 rpg, .481 FG%

Wilt: 12.8 ppg, 20.8 rpg, .769 FG%

vs. McAdoo in 4 H2H's:

McAdoo: 16.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, .450 FG% (3 known games)

Wilt: 20.5 ppg, 21.3 rpg, .850 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 7 regular season H2H's:

Thurmond: 12.3 ppg, 21.6 rpg, .315 FG%

Wilt: 5.1 ppg, 16.6 rpg, .684 FG%

vs. Thurmond in 5 playoff H2H's:

Thurmond: 15.8 ppg, 17.2 rpg, .373 FG%

Wilt: 7.0 ppg, 23.6 rpg, .611 FG%

vs. Lanier in 6 H2H's:

Lanier: 21.2 ppg, 13.4 rpg (5 known games), .374 FG% (5 known games)

Wilt: 19.8 ppg, 16.3 rpg, .764 FG%

vs. Kareem in 6 H2H's:

Kareem: 29.5 ppg, 17.8 rpg, .450 FG%

Wilt: 11.0 ppg, 16.0 rpg, .737 FG%

This, from a Chamberlain who was 36 years old, and three years removed from major knee surgery.

Now, given the FACT that a PRIME Chamberlain was FAR more dominant against the same centers that a PRIME Kareem would face a few years later ...AND given the FACT that a WAY-PAST-PRIME Kareem was routinely dropping 40+ point games on Hakeem (and just slaughtering Ewing, as well)...well...I have no doubt that a PRIME Wilt would have just SHELLED the likes of Hakeem and Ewing.

aj1987

03-21-2015, 01:49 AM

Sorry to continue you to pound you with FACTS...

BTW, MJ's scoring and efficiency dropped against the "Bad Boys" in his series from '88 thru '91 (and really, the prime Pistons were from '88 thru '90.)

Shaq's scoring and efficiency dropped dramatically against the Robinson-led Spurs from '99 thru '02.

And Kareem's scoring and efficiency fell off the cliff in his post-season H2H's against Wilt and Thurmond from '71 thru '73.

How come?

How come Wilt gets ripped when his post-season numbers declined and with EIGHT series (and THREE more against Thurmond) against RUSSELL?
.511 FT% shooter in the regular season
.465 in the playoffs
.375 in the finals

Chamberlains ppg in regular season: 30.1
Chamberlains ppg in playoffs: 22.5
Chamberlain's ppg in the Finals: 18

1964
RS: 35 ppg
F: 29 ppg

1967
RS: 24 ppg
F: 18 ppg

1969
RS: 21 ppg
F: 12 ppg

1970
RS: 27 ppg
F: 23 ppg

1972
RS: 15 ppg
F: 19 ppg

1973
RS: 13 ppg
F: 12 ppg

Dude was a choking statpadder. Would be a poor man's Whiteside in today's league.

StrongLurk

03-23-2015, 12:58 PM

Come on, a rookie Duncan against a near prime Karl Malone is not exactly a fair comparison....and he didn't even get outplayed that bad:

Malone: 24.6 / 10.0 / 3.8 / 1.0 (42% shooting)
Duncan: 21.0 / 8.4 / 1.2 / 1.6 (49% shooting)

...that series was a lot closer than it looked in the box score (Jazz scored 1 total point more than the Spurs in the entire series and the Spurs almost stole games 1 & 2 in Utah...they were like 6 points away from being up 3-0 in that series).

Malone is pretty much the one superstar in the past 15 years Duncan hasn't had the pleasure of knocking out of the playoffs.

Yes, put that little boy 3 ball in place.