1998 Utah Jazz defeated the most talent ever to make a Finals

[3ball]

Hakeem Olajuwon got destroyed in 1st round.

Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Greg Popovich and their 56-win Spurs got destroyed in 5 games in the conference semifinals.

Shaq's most stacked team ever (4 All-Stars) were swept in the conference finals (the Jazz also defeated Shaq the prior year in 1997 - they owned Shaq).

Has anyone defeated three top 15 all-time players like that just to make a Finals (Hakeem, Duncan, Shaq)?

Btw, Utah was relatively unathletic at the center position, but Ostertag and the Jazz handled Shaq easily because they had a reputation of being one of the smartest teams in the league.. Smart teams have always exploited guys like Shaq who can't adjust and attack in different ways because their game is based mostly on athleticism..

The Jazz's victories over Shaq in 1997 and 1998 reminds me of how the relatively unathletic, but smart Spurs and Mavs routinely exploit the rigidity of Lebron-ball - unathletic, smart teams own Lebron, just like they do Shaq.

[dubeta]

They would've dismantled the Bulls in 6 if the refs officiated the series correctly.

[SouBeachTalents]

Here are some Finals runs that rival that

1967 76ers: Oscar, Russell, Hondo
1988 Pistons: Moses, Jordan, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Parish
1994 Rockets: Drexler, Barkley, Malone, Stockton
1995 Rockets: Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Robinson
2011 Mavs: Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Harden
2012 Thunder: Dirk, Kobe, Gasol, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili

[dubeta]

Even Jordan's navigational efficiency™ wouldn't be able to stop them in a fairly officiated series.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

All stars don't mean anything when they don't perform up to par. NVE, Jones and Kobe all respectively shit the bed against Utah; they were literally awful.

I agree that the Jazz circa '97 and 98 are underrated when it pertains to ATG teams, but you can do away with the hysterics.

[Eric Cartman]

Here are some Finals runs that rival

1988 Pistons: Moses, Jordan, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Parish

This one takes the cake imo.

[Lebron23]

OP needs to check his eyesight and memory. Hakeem was a shadow of his former self in the 1998 NBA Season. He just averaged 16.4 ppg on 48.3 FG%, and 9.8 rpg. The Rockets only won 41 games during that season.

[John Tesh]

They would've dismantled the Bulls in 6 if the refs officiated the series correctly.

Shut up.

[John Tesh]

Here are some Finals runs that rival that

1967 76ers: Oscar, Russell, Hondo
1988 Pistons: Moses, Jordan, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Parish
1994 Rockets: Drexler, Barkley, Malone, Stockton
1995 Rockets: Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Robinson
2011 Mavs: Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Harden
2012 Thunder: Dirk, Kobe, Gasol, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili

Stopped at the bold. Pointless to name big name players if were not even close to their prime.

[LAZERUSS]

Here are some Finals runs that rival that

1967 76ers: Oscar, Russell, Hondo
1988 Pistons: Moses, Jordan, Pippen, Bird, McHale, Parish
1994 Rockets: Drexler, Barkley, Malone, Stockton
1995 Rockets: Malone, Stockton, Barkley, Robinson
2011 Mavs: Kobe, Gasol, Durant, Westbrook, Harden
2012 Thunder: Dirk, Kobe, Gasol, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili

Oscar, Lucas, Russell, Sam Jones, Havlicek, Thurmond, and Barry, ALL in their PRIMES...as well as HOFers Satch Sanders, KC Jones, Baily Howell, and Wayne Embry...

all in all...ELEVEN HOFers...

[Lebron23]

Kobe Bryant only averaged 15.4 ppg during that season. A 26 yrs.old Shaq was the only consistent performer for the Lakers during that season.

Both Jones and Van Excel under performed in the playoffs.

[TheMarkMadsen]

2010: KD/WB/ Harden/Deron/Boozer/Milsap/Nash/Amare/KG/Ray/Rondo

[dubeta]

2010: KD/WB/ Harden/Deron/Boozer/Milsap/Nash/Amare/KG/Ray/Rondo

Yup, Gasol was historically great.

[ShawkFactory]

2001 lakers were better.

[r0drig0lac]

Pistons

/thread

[3ball]

OP needs to check his eyesight and memory. Hakeem was a shadow of his former self in the 1998 NBA Season. He just averaged 16.4 ppg on 48.3 FG%, and 9.8 rpg.


You're forgetting that Utah crushed Hakeem the previous year in the 1997 as well, when he was 23 PPG and 11 RPG.

Also, 16 PPG, 10 RPG, and 2.0 BPG in 1998 is still excellent, especially if it's coming from Hakeem - his Defensive Box Score +/- of 3.6 was superior to every big man in today's game, by far - I'm talking Cousins, Lopez, Horford, Drummond, Deandre, Chandler, Gasol, Gasol.

And again, Utah didn't just beat Hakeem in 1998, they beat the 56-win Spurs led by Duncan-Robinson-Popovich, and swept Shaq's most talent-laden team ever.

No team has ever had to go through this many Top 15 all-time players to make a Finals.

[Trollsmasher]

Physicality is in-fact, NOT good defense. Physicality is rash, erratic and overstated. Good defense is communication, teamwork, spacing and angles. The 90's are often cited as a great defensive era with towering shotblockers at the center position in the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo... Defense is WAY more than blocks and steals, it is why when you compare the advanced statistics of the 90's to the 2000's and 2010's, it is inferior defensively.

Examples of "Physical, yet poor 90's defense"
http://giant.gfycat.com/PoshBleakIvorygull.gif
-Notice the offensive freedom, and ease to drive to the hoop? Notice the late shotblock attempt which would be called a chest to chest poster on physical defense?
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif
-Notice the lack of spacial awareness? The ease of drive to the hoop? The late shotblock attempt which would then interpretted as 'physical'?

Now for some examples of good defense
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
-Notice the complete lack of attention for the two Lakers on either wings, the intentional coverage of floor space to deny ball dribble penetration... Effective scheme to stop a superstar, to beat it one would need to have the adequate floor spacing via shooters, and effective passing/offball movement

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lebronceleb2.gif
-Notice the shading of the ball defender, and lane protection, complete disregard for the Miami wing players... This subtle zoning forces Lebron to take a midrange jumper when in previous eras where zones were outlawed via the Illegal Defenses rule schemes, the shading defenders would have to be covering their men unless they wished to get a violation of Illegal defense. Lebron would be able to drive to the hoop alot easier under ID rules.
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Milbuck]

Jordan played in eras of weak defenses that are comparitvely weaker to the modern era that allows zones. Illegal defense eras had defenses hands tied behind their backs,

Physicality is in-fact, NOT good defense. Physicality is rash, erratic and overstated. Good defense is communication, teamwork, spacing and angles. The 90's are often cited as a great defensive era with towering shotblockers at the center position in the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo... Defense is WAY more than blocks and steals, it is why when you compare the advanced statistics of the 90's to the 2000's and 2010's, it is inferior defensively.

Examples of "Physical, yet poor 90's defense"
http://giant.gfycat.com/PoshBleakIvorygull.gif
-Notice the offensive freedom, and ease to drive to the hoop? Notice the late shotblock attempt which would be called a chest to chest poster on physical defense?
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif
-Notice the lack of spacial awareness? The ease of drive to the hoop? The late shotblock attempt which would then interpretted as 'physical'?

Now for some examples of good defense
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
-Notice the complete lack of attention for the two Lakers on either wings, the intentional coverage of floor space to deny ball dribble penetration... Effective scheme to stop a superstar, to beat it one would need to have the adequate floor spacing via shooters, and effective passing/offball movement

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lebronceleb2.gif
-Notice the shading of the ball defender, and lane protection, complete disregard for the Miami wing players... This subtle zoning forces Lebron to take a midrange jumper when in previous eras where zones were outlawed via the Illegal Defenses rule schemes, the shading defenders would have to be covering their men unless they wished to get a violation of Illegal defense. Lebron would be able to drive to the hoop alot easier under ID rules.http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[Alamо]

03 Duncan took out 4 different MVPs pretty much at the top of their game + Kidd, Amare, Marion, Marbury. Not to mention not one of those series' went to a game 7


:bowdown: :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

2001 lakers had the most impressive run by far

SWEPT Portland ( Rasheed Wallace, Scottie Pippen, Damon Stoudemire, Steve Smith, Dale Davis, Bonzi Wells, Arvidas Sabonis, Stacey Augman, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Shrempf )


SWEPT Sacramento ( Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Doug Christie, Vlade Divac, Jason Williams, Bobby Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu )


SWEPT Spurs ( Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Steve Kerr )



3 teams who all are finals worthy competition

portland would have been the 2000 nba champions if not for the lakers
sanantonio would have been the 2001 nba champions if not for the lakers
sacramento would have been the 2002 nba champions if not for the lakers


far and away the most dominant/impressive first 3 rounds of all time

[3ball]

^^^^^ all those GIF's show the exact same defense as any era, where the defenders sag off shooters that are camping behind the 3-point line - EVERY era plays that type of defense.

[3ball]

.
Otoh - here's how 3-point shooters take defenders out to the 3-point line thus clearing the paint of defenders:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c33b0be11565b94476f8e7a7e9902217.gif




Compare that to previous eras that didn't shoot 3's or have spacing, so defenders didn't have to guard the 3-point line and could crowd the paint instead:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif

[ShawkFactory]

2001 lakers had the most impressive run by far

SWEPT Portland ( Rasheed Wallace, Scottie Pippen, Damon Stoudemire, Steve Smith, Dale Davis, Bonzi Wells, Arvidas Sabonis, Stacey Augman, Shawn Kemp, Detlef Shrempf )


SWEPT Sacramento ( Chris Webber, Peja Stojakovic, Doug Christie, Vlade Divac, Jason Williams, Bobby Jackson, Hedo Turkoglu )


SWEPT Spurs ( Tim Duncan, David Robinson, Antonio Daniels, Terry Porter, Derek Anderson, Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Steve Kerr )



3 teams who all are finals worthy competition

portland would have been the 2000 nba champions if not for the lakers
sanantonio would have been the 2001 nba champions if not for the lakers
sacramento would have been the 2002 nba champions if not for the lakers


far and away the most dominant/impressive first 3 rounds of all time
Totally. People should never forget just how dominant Shaq was at the time.

[sportjames23]

They would've dismantled the Bulls in 6 if the refs officiated the series correctly.


Funny thing is, they refs did. And the Bulls were the ones who won in 6.

And won their 6th ring, at that.

6/6, bitch.

Go cry in your cereal over your boy only being 2/5.

[Im Still Ballin]

Incorrect 2ball

There are subtle yet singificant rule differences that alter the way defenses defended offenses. Looks are deceiving, the defenses may seem the same but the rules permit the ability of those defenders and the freedom at which they can exert themselves to defend offenses. Otoh;

In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).

http://media.giphy.com/media/PfS9JTMb9zF7i/giphy.gif
- Notice the single coverage, open paint

In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
- Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!

[Trollsmasher]

Incorrect 2ball

There are subtle yet singificant rule differences that alter the way defenses defended offenses. Looks are deceiving, the defenses may seem the same but the rules permit the ability of those defenders and the freedom at which they can exert themselves to defend offenses. Otoh;

In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).

http://media.giphy.com/media/PfS9JTMb9zF7i/giphy.gif
- Notice the single coverage, open paint

In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
- Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[nba_55]

Incorrect 2ball

There are subtle yet singificant rule differences that alter the way defenses defended offenses. Looks are deceiving, the defenses may seem the same but the rules permit the ability of those defenders and the freedom at which they can exert themselves to defend offenses. Otoh;

In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).

http://media.giphy.com/media/PfS9JTMb9zF7i/giphy.gif
- Notice the single coverage, open paint

In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
- Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Robin-Lopez-Suns-Bench-Shock-Reaction.gif

[nba_55]

Jordan played in eras of weak defenses that are comparitvely weaker to the modern era that allows zones. Illegal defense eras had defenses hands tied behind their backs,

Physicality is in-fact, NOT good defense. Physicality is rash, erratic and overstated. Good defense is communication, teamwork, spacing and angles. The 90's are often cited as a great defensive era with towering shotblockers at the center position in the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo... Defense is WAY more than blocks and steals, it is why when you compare the advanced statistics of the 90's to the 2000's and 2010's, it is inferior defensively.

Examples of "Physical, yet poor 90's defense"
http://giant.gfycat.com/PoshBleakIvorygull.gif
-Notice the offensive freedom, and ease to drive to the hoop? Notice the late shotblock attempt which would be called a chest to chest poster on physical defense?
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif
-Notice the lack of spacial awareness? The ease of drive to the hoop? The late shotblock attempt which would then interpretted as 'physical'?

Now for some examples of good defense
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
-Notice the complete lack of attention for the two Lakers on either wings, the intentional coverage of floor space to deny ball dribble penetration... Effective scheme to stop a superstar, to beat it one would need to have the adequate floor spacing via shooters, and effective passing/offball movement

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lebronceleb2.gif
-Notice the shading of the ball defender, and lane protection, complete disregard for the Miami wing players... This subtle zoning forces Lebron to take a midrange jumper when in previous eras where zones were outlawed via the Illegal Defenses rule schemes, the shading defenders would have to be covering their men unless they wished to get a violation of Illegal defense. Lebron would be able to drive to the hoop alot easier under ID rules.
:biggums:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Robin-Lopez-Suns-Bench-Shock-Reaction.gif

[tpols]

.
Otoh - here's how 3-point shooters take defenders out to the 3-point line thus clearing the paint of defenders:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c33b0be11565b94476f8e7a7e9902217.gif




Compare that to previous eras that didn't shoot 3's or have spacing, so defenders didn't have to guard the 3-point line and could crowd the paint instead:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif

Why do you always say this like it's a good thing? So players back then we're less skilled and couldn't shoot? So the average role player was worse lol.. ?

#weakera

[Milbuck]

Jordan played in eras of weak defenses that are comparitvely weaker to the modern era that allows zones. Illegal defense eras had defenses hands tied behind their backs,

Physicality is in-fact, NOT good defense. Physicality is rash, erratic and overstated. Good defense is communication, teamwork, spacing and angles. The 90's are often cited as a great defensive era with towering shotblockers at the center position in the likes of Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mutombo... Defense is WAY more than blocks and steals, it is why when you compare the advanced statistics of the 90's to the 2000's and 2010's, it is inferior defensively.

Examples of "Physical, yet poor 90's defense"
http://giant.gfycat.com/PoshBleakIvorygull.gif
-Notice the offensive freedom, and ease to drive to the hoop? Notice the late shotblock attempt which would be called a chest to chest poster on physical defense?
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif
-Notice the lack of spacial awareness? The ease of drive to the hoop? The late shotblock attempt which would then interpretted as 'physical'?

Now for some examples of good defense
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
-Notice the complete lack of attention for the two Lakers on either wings, the intentional coverage of floor space to deny ball dribble penetration... Effective scheme to stop a superstar, to beat it one would need to have the adequate floor spacing via shooters, and effective passing/offball movement

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/lebronceleb2.gif
-Notice the shading of the ball defender, and lane protection, complete disregard for the Miami wing players... This subtle zoning forces Lebron to take a midrange jumper when in previous eras where zones were outlawed via the Illegal Defenses rule schemes, the shading defenders would have to be covering their men unless they wished to get a violation of Illegal defense. Lebron would be able to drive to the hoop alot easier under ID rules.
http://i.imgur.com/90U6Oi4.gif
:yaohappy:

[DonDadda59]

Examples of "Physical, yet poor 90's defense"
http://giant.gfycat.com/PoshBleakIvorygull.gif
-Notice the offensive freedom, and ease to drive to the hoop? Notice the late shotblock attempt which would be called a chest to chest poster on physical defense?
http://giant.gfycat.com/ImaginaryDevotedHoneybee.gif
-Notice the lack of spacial awareness? The ease of drive to the hoop? The late shotblock attempt which would then interpretted as 'physical'?



How is that an example of 'poor defense'? That was actually sound help D by Zo in both instances, he just got to the spot a hair late because he was challenging a grade A athlete in Pippen. In his career Mourning blocked FAR more shots than he got dunked on. In fact, you can't point to a single Center in the league today who blocked, altered, challenged more shots than Zo in te 90s. Reason why a guy like Pip has so many great poster dunks (chest to chest :oldlol: ) and Lebron doesn't (ass to ass) is because there was actually someone in the paint to challenge Pip's dunk attempts.

And the second gif is clearly an example of a 90s team playing a 2-3 zone. :confusedshrug:

[warriorfan]

How is that an example of 'poor defense'? That was actually sound help D by Zo in both instances, he just got to the spot a hair late because he was challenging a grade A athlete in Pippen. In his career Mourning blocked FAR more shots than he got dunked on. In fact, you can't point to a single Center in the league today who blocked, altered, challenged more shots than Zo in te 90s. Reason why a guy like Pip has so many great poster dunks (chest to chest :oldlol: ) and Lebron doesn't (ass to ass) is because there was actually someone in the paint to challenge Pip's dunk attempts.

And the second gif is clearly an example of a 90s team playing a 2-3 zone. :confusedshrug:


Thats what I was thinking...I think he is just trolling or some shit

[3ball]

in 2001, zones were permitted


But in 2005, the NBA introduced a new defensive 3 seconds rule, which banned zones INSIDE the paint.

After the rule change, zones were only allowed outside the paint.. INSIDE the paint, the new defensive 3 seconds rule took over - this rule forced defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times, or vacate the paint - this is the very definition of man-to-man defense.

Furthermore, it's a VERY STRICT brand of man-to-man: a man's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is 16 x 19 feet, so paint defenders must stand right next to their man at all times, even when both players are inside the paint.

Previous era paint defenders were allowed this armslength provision too, but they could also stay in the lane if their man was OUT of armslength reach - the defender's man could be anywhere inside the paint and up to 3 feet outside the lane on either side, as stipulated in rule Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines:

2b. "When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area."

Rule 2b allowed paint defenders to stand far away from their man - this is definition of zone defense.. Indeed, zone defense was allowed in the paint in previous eras.. Otoh, today's game requires man-to-man defense in the paint, as stipulated by the armslength provision (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) in the defensive 3 seconds rule.





Illegal defense also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif

Why would anyone need to double-team an off-ball player in the no-spacing environment shown above?... That would be like telling a girl with double FF's that she needs an enhancement.

Defenders didn't have to help as much in previous eras - with no spacing, they were already there... that's the DEFINITION of no-spacing.





Illegal defense also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player


Not only is the double-teaming of off-ball players not applicable to no-spacing environments where defenders are already in close proximity, but soft double-teaming of off-ball players occurs automatically in the paint area anyway, due to legal paint-camping.

Under the current rules, if an offensive player was standing on the left block, his defender must stand right next to him (within "armslength", as stipulated by today's defensive 3 seconds rule).. Accordingly, if a different offensive player is posting up on the RIGHT block, the left block defender can't move off his man further than armslength to help.. Ideally, the left block defender should stand right under the rim halfway in between both blocks - but he can't because that's 8 feet away and out of armslength of his man on the left block.

However, in a previous era, since the offensive player on the left block is within 3 feet of either side of the paint, the left block defender can paint-camp anywhere inside the paint, as stipulated in Rule 2b of the Illegal Defense Guidelines.. Therefore, the left block defender would be able to paint-camp right under the rim, halfway in between both blocks, and in optimal position to help on both post players and penetrators - with their paint presence, paint-campers automatically and perpetually provide this type of soft-double team help.





There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).


It's a well-documented, statistical fact that 1-on-1 results in the lower percentage shot attempts than any other type of offense.. So letting a guy dribble the ball for 10 seconds until he can take his man is a low percentage shot - like, if Lebron had to do that every play, his percentage would go DOWN, not up.

There used to be two or three guys that did this, but it was never a successful style - the NBA certainly didn't ban it because it was having success - they banned it because they thought it looked too boring to casual fans.. They replaced it with rules that made penetration easier (hand-check ban) and cleared the paint (defensive 3 seconds) - consequently, high quality shots are more available than ever before, so the tougher 1-on-1 shots pursued as much.





http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif

- Notice the single coverage, open paint


INDEED!!!!!!!!!.... :biggums:





today's game allows strong zones (floods)


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0107/Klay-New-03.gif


Today's defensive 3 seconds rule and spacing forces bigs to defend in a flood and shading-type fashion, which means they must come AWAY from the hoop and defend a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - today's game forces bigs to trade in their strength and advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (paint-camping), for a major disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult.. Teams score more today than in the mid-90's and it's a statistical fact that most plays in today's game are dribble-penetration plays - dribble-penetration occurs more than ever before due to the hand-check ban (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) coupled with wider, spacing-enhanced driving lanes.
.

[3ball]

Why do you always say this like it's a good thing? So players back then we're less skilled and couldn't shoot? So the average role player was worse lol.. ?

#weakera
players not being able to shoot in previous eras meant defenders didn't have to guard the perimeter and could pack the paint.. it's physics: the lack of floor-spreading meant defenders were guarding a smaller surface area - this makes it harder to score in the paint..

like, if stephan curry went back to 1985, he wouldn't have anyone spreading the floor for him, so the paint would be packed like nothing he's ever seen.. and the play would be waaaaay more physical - like night and day... good thing he's not injury prone.. oh wait.
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[Poetry]

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:confusedshrug: