View Full Version : Curry's current season equals either of Nash's MVP seasons
Eric Cartman
03-21-2015, 05:12 PM
So, if you agree that Nash deserved those MVP's, there should be no doubt that Curry is the MVP: 23 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, with much better defense than Stevie had, leading his team to the best record in the league with a rookie coach. Nash didn't even average 20 points his MVP campaigns.
This should be a no brainer given the precedent.
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 05:26 PM
Curry averages 8 more points and only 3 less assist
easily MVP
Lebronxrings
03-21-2015, 05:26 PM
Warriors are a top 5 seed even without curry.
Quickening
03-21-2015, 05:30 PM
Warriors are a top 5 seed even without curry.
This. Thompson been out recently, and Curry averaging 35 percent from the field and they're still winning easily with other all stars going off.
Im Still Ballin
03-21-2015, 05:40 PM
2-6 without Nash in 2004-2005
0-3 without Nash in 2005-2006
2-4 without Nash in 2006-2007
0-1 without Nash in 2007-2008
5-4 without Nash in 2008-2009
1-0 without Nash in 2009-2010
1-7 without Nash in 2010-2011
1-4 without Nash in 2011-2012
12-29 without Nash during his stint in PHX
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 05:41 PM
Though I would have no problem with Curry winning the MVP, there's more to comparing their seasons than individual stat lines.
'05 Nash turned a 29 win team into a 62 win team. '06 Nash led Phoenix to 54 wins while shooting 50/40/90 with better individual numbers.
By arguing that accepting Nash's MVPs = supporting Curry's MVP case you're ignoring the other candidates. Has Curry really been more valuable to his team than Harden? Or even Westbrook? What happens to those squads in their current states without those key players? I think that Nash did deserve his MVPs, and while Curry may be a deserving candidate I'm not sure if he's the most deserving (though I don't really have a horse in this race, I don't care who wins).
Most valuable player isn't necessarily the best player, which is why comparing stat lines between seasons isn't a great way to gauge value to a team. If Curry does win, he will have been a deserving candidate, but if he doesn't win it's not a knock on him, he'll still be a deserving candidate who happened to be overshadowed by another deserving candidate (probably Harden if Curry doesn't win).
TL;DR - Curry is a deserving candidate but he isn't alone in that department, comparing stat lines is a poor way to justify his candidacy, imo.
Im Still Ballin
03-21-2015, 05:46 PM
Curry averages 8 more points and only 3 less assist
easily MVP
During Nash's statistical peak he averaged 18 and 12
5 less points but 4 more assists
Atleast 8 points accounted for from those extra 4 assists
Maybe more due to threes
2.5 for every assist is a fair guestimate
10+ points accounted for
5+ points accounted for compared to Curry's 23 and 8
Not to mention better efficiency across the board with less turnovers in less minutes a game
StephHamann
03-21-2015, 05:47 PM
2-6 without Nash in 2004-2005
0-3 without Nash in 2005-2006
2-4 without Nash in 2006-2007
0-1 without Nash in 2007-2008
5-4 without Nash in 2008-2009
1-0 without Nash in 2009-2010
1-7 without Nash in 2010-2011
1-4 without Nash in 2011-2012
12-29 without Nash during his stint in PHX
The Phoenix Suns were the second worst team in the west with 29 wins before Nash arrived. And their offense was rated 94.2 per game, which was only 1 point above the 93 points league average.
He was basically the only addition in 2004 and the Suns won 62 games with him, while having the by far best offense with 110 points per game.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
How great is our Gawd ?
http://nerdatthecooltable.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Steve-Nash-Alley-Pass.jpg
RightToCensor
03-21-2015, 05:49 PM
Point God ^
What does Nash's seasons have to do with this season?
You think Curry is the only one with a better statistical season?
How old are we?
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 05:51 PM
During Nash's statistical peak he averaged 18 and 12
5 less points but 4 more assists
Atleast 8 points accounted for from those extra 4 assists
Maybe more due to threes
2.5 for every assist is a fair guestimate
10+ points accounted for
5+ points accounted for compared to Curry's 23 and 8
Not to mention better efficiency across the board with less turnovers in less minutes a game
Nash's assist totals were inflated due to the system.
The same system that has allowed d league level players to average 9 assist per game entire seasons.
Hey Yo
03-21-2015, 05:55 PM
So, if you agree that Nash deserved those MVP's, there should be no doubt that Curry is the MVP: 23 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, with much better defense than Stevie had, leading his team to the best record in the league with a rookie coach. Nash didn't even average 20 points his MVP campaigns.
This should be a no brainer given the precedent.
The Suns record the year before Nash got there was 29-53. With Nash 62-20
Then they lost their leading scorer and 2nd leading rebounder (from the year before) 3 games into the following season. They only won 8 less games (54-28) than the previous season. That's pretty impressive
You can't compare Curry's situation to Nash'
Im Still Ballin
03-21-2015, 05:56 PM
Nash's assist totals were inflated due to the system.
The same system that has allowed d league level players to average 9 assist per game entire seasons.
Nash WAS the system
There's a reason why no teams have been able to copy their run and gun method and why Mike D has failed everywhere else he has coached
Steve was the engine
Warriors are a top 5 seed even without curry.
Top 5 isn't good enough for MVP. Name me one MVP winner since 1980 whose teams weren't #1 or #2 seed.
#5 Clippers are 11 games behind #1 seed.
#5 Wizards are 13 games behind #1 seed.
Hell, #2 seed Grizzlies are 7.5 games behind. #2 seed Cleveland are 9 games behind.
Lead your team to #1 seed is a huge gap this year. Curry is legit MVP-worthy.
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 06:00 PM
Nash WAS the system
There's a reason why no teams have been able to copy their run and gun method and why Mike D has failed everywhere else he has coached
Steve was the engine
He's failed because he's never had teams as stacked as those suns team.
Guys like Joe Johnson, Marion, Diaw & Amare don't just come out every year.
Meanwhile, Kendall Marshall ran the system last year, averaged 9 assist per game and now can't find a job.
Chris Duhon was putting up 9-10 assist per game under dantoni and then couldn't find a job without him.
Jeremy Lin has never looked the same as he did under dantoni.
Im Still Ballin
03-21-2015, 06:04 PM
Can any of those scrub PGs shoot like Nash?
No
The GOAT shooter
You're acting like Steve did nothing after Mike D was gone
He took a team with Grant Hill and Channing Frye as main pieces to the conference finals, a win or two away from the NBA finals
RightToCensor
03-21-2015, 06:08 PM
People still think Mike D'Antoni's system was successful on its own? How old are we?
Uncle Drew
03-21-2015, 06:09 PM
Meanwhile, Kendall Marshall ran the system last year, averaged 9 assist per game and now can't find a job.
Of course he can't, he has a torn ACL. :facepalm
He's failed because he's never had teams as stacked as those suns team.
Guys like Joe Johnson, Marion, Diaw & Amare don't just come out every year.
Meanwhile, Kendall Marshall ran the system last year, averaged 9 assist per game and now can't find a job.
Chris Duhon was putting up 9-10 assist per game under dantoni and then couldn't find a job without him.
Jeremy Lin has never looked the same as he did under dantoni.
Unlike those other guys, Nash still led the league twice with 11+ AST per game after D'Antoni went to New York.
Nash was Nash before and after D'Antoni.
Eric Cartman
03-21-2015, 06:19 PM
Are we gonna act like Nash played any defense during that period? How old are we?
Im Still Ballin
03-21-2015, 06:21 PM
Are we gonna act like a PG has much influence on a team's defense?
Nash wasn't a great defender, but he was a safe one
A lot of players gamble way too much in the passing lanes
RightToCensor
03-21-2015, 06:31 PM
Are we gonna act like Nash played any defense during that period? How old are we?
Oh man, nice comeback. How could of Steve Nash ever been an All-Star?
Oh wait... #3 all-time in assists, the most efficient shooting PG in league history, played through a bloodied mouth (multiple times), broken nose, and swollen eye.
Lets not mentioned how he's the greatest floor general in NBA History.
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 06:31 PM
Can any of those scrub PGs shoot like Nash?
No
The GOAT shooter
You're acting like Steve did nothing after Mike D was gone
He took a team with Grant Hill and Channing Frye as main pieces to the conference finals, a win or two away from the NBA finals
dude i said his assist numbers were inflated, wtf does that have to do with how well he shoots?
grant hill and channing frye? I guess you forgot Amare
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 06:32 PM
Oh man, nice comeback. How could of Steve Nash ever been an All-Star?
Oh wait... #3 all-time in assists, the most efficient shooting PG in league history, played through a bloodied mouth (multiple times), broken nose, and swollen eye.
Lets not mentioned how he's the greatest floor general in NBA History.
FFS can anybody stay on topic, wtf does being an all star have to do with anything?
He's talking about being MVP
RightToCensor
03-21-2015, 06:34 PM
FFS can anybody stay on topic, wtf does being an all star have to do with anything?
He's talking about being MVP
Oh man, nice comeback. How could of Steve Nash ever been a two time MVP?
Oh wait... #3 all-time in assists, the most efficient shooting PG in league history, played through a bloodied mouth (multiple times), broken nose, and swollen eye.
Lets not mentioned how he's the greatest floor general in NBA History.
Nash wasn't a bad defender anyway, it is a false argument. He wasn't great, he wasn't terrible, he was average and his teams were always about average on the Suns when you adjusted for pace.
By the way, he was backed up by Amare and Diaw behind him- not exactly the '85 Bears. Marion was a stopper, and that's about it. And straight from Amare's mouth: ''We didn't practice defense under D'Antoni.'' There is your great coach in action.
Speaking of the coach, how did D'Antoni create Nash when the 2010 Suns were one of the greatest offenses of ALL TIME, without D'Antoni coaching? Not even running the same system? Not to mention his Mavericks teams with Dirk were top of the league in scoring every single year.
Where are all of these other point guards putting up 18 and 12 on historic shooting numbers? I see Chris Paul and a bunch of undersized shooting guards who never learned how to pass in middle school.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 06:36 PM
Oh man, nice comeback. How could of Steve Nash ever been a two time MVP?
Oh wait... #3 all-time in assists, the most efficient shooting PG in league history, played through a bloodied mouth (multiple times), broken nose, and swollen eye.
Lets not mentioned how he's the greatest floor general in NBA History.
:rockon:
Eric Cartman
03-21-2015, 06:40 PM
Oh man, nice comeback. How could of Steve Nash ever been an All-Star?
Oh wait... #3 all-time in assists, the most efficient shooting PG in league history, played through a bloodied mouth (multiple times), broken nose, and swollen eye.
Lets not mentioned how he's the greatest floor general in NBA History.
Get your point, but what gives?
You saying Curry deserves it as Nash did? Or that he doesn't?
Also, that last sentence is a joke, the correct answer is Magic Johnson.
RightToCensor
03-21-2015, 06:43 PM
They both deserve the MVP. But this year it has to be Harden.
Magic Johnson was the most aesthetically pleasing PG in league history, but Nash's teams had historically great offensive numbers year-by-year. Nash wins this.
warriorfan
03-21-2015, 06:46 PM
Steve Nash sucks shit and is a beta
The End.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 07:17 PM
In my opinion Curry is a deserving candidate, but Harden is making too much noise for there to be a clear cut favorite either way. Curry is putting up great numbers on an elite shooting line on the league's best team, but Harden is carrying Houston into the playoffs while also posting a great individual line. Neither sparked the same kind of team turnaround that Nash did, but they both still have great cases on the season as far as skill and value.
It can be difficult to gauge value, and while I think Harden is probably the favorite right now it could go either way at the end of the season.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 07:17 PM
Steve Nash is a top-5 all-time PG and is the greatest shooter in NBA history.
The End.
FTFY.
J Shuttlesworth
03-21-2015, 07:18 PM
In my opinion Curry is a deserving candidate, but Harden is making too much noise for there to be a clear cut favorite either way. Curry is putting up great numbers on an elite shooting line on the league's best team, but Harden is carrying Houston into the playoffs while also posting a great individual line. Neither sparked the same kind of team turnaround that Nash did, but they both still have great cases on the season as far as skill and value.
It can be difficult to gauge value, and while I think Harden is probably the favorite right now it could go either way at the end of the season.
I think Harden should be the MVP but Curry will ultimately win it because I think the media likes him more.
It's close enough to where I don't mind either player winning though.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 07:23 PM
I think Harden should be the MVP but Curry will ultimately win it because I think the media likes him more.
It's close enough to where I don't mind either player winning though.
Agreed. I think I would give Harden a slight edge over Curry, but both are fully deserving candidates for the award.
Even though the season is winding down a lot could still change, I think it'll be affected by whoever finishes stronger. Curry is probably going to be played less in preparation for the playoffs but Harden won't have that luxury if Houston wants to secure home court advantage for the first round. No matter who wins there shouldn't be any issues over their credibility.
warriorfan
03-21-2015, 08:05 PM
I think the greatest shooter in the game maxed out at 18 ppg on a historically fast paced team
:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 08:09 PM
:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:
Shooter, not scorer. Reading comprehension please.
ArbitraryWater
03-21-2015, 08:17 PM
Curry averages 8 more points and only 3 less assist
easily MVP
the simplicity of basketball to Kobe fans :)
Steve's impact isn't one to be gauged by raw box score stats.
He made historically great offenses ('06 without Stoudemire), overall, PG stats can be taken with a grain of salt as far as I'm concerned.
TheMarkMadsen
03-21-2015, 08:19 PM
I see that AW is the last person to post in this thread and i'd be willing to bet my account that he's either a) quoting me from pages back or b) bringing up Kobe
edit: what do you know :roll: :roll:
warriorfan
03-21-2015, 08:22 PM
the simplicity of basketball to Kobe fans :)
Steve's impact isn't one to be gauged by raw box score stats.
He made historically great offenses ('06 without Stoudemire), overall, PG stats can be taken with a grain of salt as far as I'm concerned.
05'
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html
06'
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 08:33 PM
05'
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2005.html
06'
http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2006.html
In 2005 Phoenix led the league in ORTG and PPG.
In 2006 Phoenix posted the second best ORTG in the league (missed out on first by 0.3) and led the league in PPG (despite Stoudemire playing only 3 games).
If we're talking solely about offensive impact (which we are), the results are clear. Even in the links that you posted, did anyone beat Nash's offense/100 in either year?
rhowen4
03-21-2015, 09:29 PM
No, I don't think curry is doing as much as nash did.
Prime_Shaq
03-21-2015, 11:02 PM
2-6 without Nash in 2004-2005
0-3 without Nash in 2005-2006
2-4 without Nash in 2006-2007
0-1 without Nash in 2007-2008
5-4 without Nash in 2008-2009
1-0 without Nash in 2009-2010
1-7 without Nash in 2010-2011
1-4 without Nash in 2011-2012
12-29 without Nash during his stint in PHX
GSW 0-2 without Curry. 0% Winrate.
warriorfan
03-21-2015, 11:06 PM
In 2005 Phoenix led the league in ORTG and PPG.
In 2006 Phoenix posted the second best ORTG in the league (missed out on first by 0.3) and led the league in PPG (despite Stoudemire playing only 3 games).
If we're talking solely about offensive impact (which we are), the results are clear. Even in the links that you posted, did anyone beat Nash's offense/100 in either year?
What about this little thing that some people like to call....defense? :roll:
24-Inch_Chrome
03-21-2015, 11:25 PM
What about this little thing that some people like to call....defense? :roll:
When did anyone ever call Nash a great defender? Those Phoenix squads were offense first, and they did it exceptionally.
You posted those links in response to AW discussing his offensive contributions as they showed up beyond box stats....which they did in those RAPM stats. He led the league in offense/100, which shows that his offensive impact did go beyond the box scores, to the point where he was contributing more offense based on that metric than anyone else in league as far as impact. Thanks for proving his point.
DatAsh
03-21-2015, 11:43 PM
the simplicity of basketball to Kobe fans :)
Steve's impact isn't one to be gauged by raw box score stats.
He made historically great offenses ('06 without Stoudemire), overall, PG stats can be taken with a grain of salt as far as I'm concerned.
This.
MVP Nash was incredible. One of the best offensive players ever.
Curry averages 8 more points and only 3 less assist
easily MVP
Add 8 individual points and take way 3 assists is about the same accountability on the boxscore as removing 8 individual points and adding 3 assists.....
3 more assists means Nash was two-way accountable for up to 9 points depending on if he assisted 2 point shots and/or 3 point shots..... not to mention the passes that were not recorded as assists but should, like when you create for a teammate for the easiest layup/dunk ever and he gets fouled because of it & misses, gets sent to FT line and hits all his FTs, same 2 points he would get if he wouldnt be fouled, same 2 points you were accountable for aswell.... this should be an assist & NBA/basketball officiating knows it, but its to late now, would not be fair to basketball history records....
Its more KEWL with individual scoring by majority of fans.... but assists does the same job on the boxscore.... and its KEWLER to see than individual scoring for some others (like me) when you see the insane & flashy vision/passing skills Nash possessed.... some players simply made passing much more fun to watch than individual scoring, Magic Johnson is a prime example.... my jaw fell down each time he threaded the needle, just looks away and lazerbeams the ball through multiple defenders arms/ears/legs right into the pocket of a surprised teammate under the basket..... Nash was kindof like that aswell....
warriorfan
03-22-2015, 12:18 AM
Add 8 individual points and take way 3 assists is about the same accountability on the boxscore as removing 8 individual points and adding 3 assists.....
3 more assists means Nash was two-way accountable for up to 9 points depending on if he assisted 2 point shots and/or 3 point shots..... not to mention the passes that were not recorded as assists but should, like when you create for a teammate for the easiest layup/dunk ever and he gets fouled because of it & misses, gets sent to FT line and hits all his FTs, same 2 points he would get if he wouldnt be fouled, same 2 points you were accountable for aswell.... this should be an assist & NBA/basketball officiating knows it, but its to late now, would not be fair to basketball history records....
Its more KEWL with individual scoring by majority of fans.... but assists does the same job on the boxscore.... and its KEWLER to see than individual scoring for some others (like me) when you see the insane & flashy vision/passing skills Nash possessed.... some players simply made passing much more fun to watch than individual scoring, Magic Johnson is a prime example.... my jaw fell down each time he threaded the needle, just looks away and lazerbeams the ball through multiple defenders arms/ears/legs right into the pocket of a surprised teammate under the basket..... Nash was kindof like that aswell....
you know what else is also KEWL? defense you fuccing idiot
24-Inch_Chrome
03-22-2015, 01:53 AM
you know what else is also KEWL? defense you fuccing idiot
http://miami-water.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/nashsteve.jpg
No one in this thread has called Nash a good defender. His value came from his offensive impact which, according to the RAPM numbers you posted, was the best in the league for both of his MVP years. Stop trying to change the focus of the discussion, accept his offensive value.
dunksby
03-22-2015, 03:44 AM
Stop labeling Nash as a disastrous defender while propping Curry's defense up, it's so ****ing stupid, neither are known for their defense. And Nash's impact and playmaking ability blows Curry out of the water, old man Nash made Gortat's career relevant.
warriorfan
03-22-2015, 03:47 AM
Stop labeling Nash as a disastrous defender while propping Curry's defense up, it's so ****ing stupid, neither are known for their defense. And Nash's impact and playmaking ability blows Curry out of the water, old man Nash made Gortat's career relevant.
Get back to me when Nash starts on the best defense in the league.
:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:
dunksby
03-22-2015, 03:57 AM
Get back to me when Nash starts on the best defense in the league.
:yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy: :yaohappy:
Are you gunning for the worst poster label in fewest posts record?
Eric Cartman
03-22-2015, 04:01 AM
There is virtually no difference in impact Nash in 06 and Curry in 15.
ImKobe
03-22-2015, 04:25 AM
Nash WAS the system
There's a reason why no teams have been able to copy their run and gun method and why Mike D has failed everywhere else he has coached
Steve was the engine
It was D'Antoni's system and how do you define success? Because they never sniffed an NBA title.
Let's look at Nash's weapons over his PHX stint, shall we?
Amare
Marion
Joe Johnson
Raja Bell
Boris Diaw
Leandro Barbosa
Grant Hill
Shaq
Vince Carter
Jason Richardson
Q-rich
Goran Dragic
Tim Thomas
Kurt Thomas
Nash was a maestro and he ran the offense flawlessly, but he was a shit defender and their best run was to the WCF in 2010, where Kobe obviously got in their ass. Those teams however were stacked with talent on offense and Mike D'Antoni's system has benefited almost every player he ever coached in terms of putting up numbers, Nash is no exception in this...We saw a broken down Kobe put up career high scoring efficiency with 27/6/6 a game in that same system...We saw Kendall fricken Marshall average 8.8 assists a game in 29 mpg in that same system last year.
Im Still Ballin
03-22-2015, 04:47 AM
Yet why has Mike's system never worked anywhere else and why did Nash continue to succeed even without Mike D?
Maybe it wasn't about Mike and maybe it was because of Nash?
How come The Suns went from one of the worst records to one of the best upon Nash's arrival?
?
How come most of those players have never been able to achieve the same success they did with Phoenix elsewhere?
warriorfan
03-22-2015, 06:28 AM
Yet why has Mike's system never worked anywhere else and why did Nash continue to succeed even without Mike D?
Maybe it wasn't about Mike and maybe it was because of Nash?
How come The Suns went from one of the worst records to one of the best upon Nash's arrival?
?
How come most of those players have never been able to achieve the same success they did with Phoenix elsewhere?
0/0 Steve Nash blows and is Beta
Better stats, better PER, better defense
Less minutes
Dresta
03-22-2015, 07:11 AM
Shaq should have won in 05 really. Nash won over Shaq (his last dominant year). Curry's competition is James freakin Harden :lol - of course he is the mvp.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-22-2015, 11:02 AM
There is virtually no difference in impact Nash in 06 and Curry in 15.
What about the impact of Curry's competition? Raw impact data isn't enough to justify an MVP win in terms of a direct season comparison, it's relative to each player's competition.
iamgine
03-22-2015, 11:14 AM
Nash was much more than his stats suggest.
It might be D'antoni system, or it might be the rule change that helped propel his game but Nash just...dominated. He wreck defenses. Not just on a one on one basis like Shaq did to Mutombo. Nash wrecked opponent's entire team defense and leave them in ruins on a constant basis. One of the GOAT offensive player in terms of impact. It was an absolute joy to watch him.
24-Inch_Chrome
03-22-2015, 11:24 AM
Nash was much more than his stats suggest.
It might be D'antoni system, or it might be the rule change that helped propel his game but Nash just...dominated. He wreck defenses. Not just on a one on one basis like Shaq did to Mutombo. Nash wrecked opponent's entire team defense and leave them in ruins on a constant basis. One of the GOAT offensive player in terms of impact. It was an absolute joy to watch him.
:applause:
Nastradamus
03-22-2015, 11:37 AM
So, if you agree that Nash deserved those MVP's, there should be no doubt that Curry is the MVP: 23 points, 8 assists, 2 steals, with much better defense than Stevie had, leading his team to the best record in the league with a rookie coach. Nash didn't even average 20 points his MVP campaigns.
This should be a no brainer given the precedent.
He's not up against the same field. Nobody should be saying he isn't worthy of an MVP in a vaccuum.
stephanieg
03-22-2015, 01:35 PM
Give it to Curry, if only so we don't have to live in a world where James Harden of all people is the MVP. That would be embarrassing.
Mike D'Antoni's system = Give it to Nash every possession.
DatAsh
03-22-2015, 02:10 PM
Add 8 individual points and take way 3 assists is about the same accountability on the boxscore as removing 8 individual points and adding 3 assists.....
3 more assists means Nash was two-way accountable for up to 9 points depending on if he assisted 2 point shots and/or 3 point shots..... not to mention the passes that were not recorded as assists but should, like when you create for a teammate for the easiest layup/dunk ever and he gets fouled because of it & misses, gets sent to FT line and hits all his FTs, same 2 points he would get if he wouldnt be fouled, same 2 points you were accountable for aswell.... this should be an assist & NBA/basketball officiating knows it, but its to late now, would not be fair to basketball history records....
Its more KEWL with individual scoring by majority of fans.... but assists does the same job on the boxscore.... and its KEWLER to see than individual scoring for some others (like me) when you see the insane & flashy vision/passing skills Nash possessed.... some players simply made passing much more fun to watch than individual scoring, Magic Johnson is a prime example.... my jaw fell down each time he threaded the needle, just looks away and lazerbeams the ball through multiple defenders arms/ears/legs right into the pocket of a surprised teammate under the basket..... Nash was kindof like that aswell....
An assist isn't worth 2-3 points. It's worth less than 1. Why do you keep ignoring that?
DatAsh
03-22-2015, 02:11 PM
Nash was much more than his stats suggest.
It might be D'antoni system, or it might be the rule change that helped propel his game but Nash just...dominated. He wreck defenses. Not just on a one on one basis like Shaq did to Mutombo. Nash wrecked opponent's entire team defense and leave them in ruins on a constant basis. One of the GOAT offensive player in terms of impact. It was an absolute joy to watch him.
:applause:
Im Still Ballin
03-22-2015, 02:11 PM
An assist isn't worth 2-3 points. It's worth less than 1. Why do you keep ignoring that?
An assist is a scored basket
Whether it be a 2 pointer or 3
Points accounted for
Mike D'Antoni's System: Plays
Play #1 - Have Marion set a screen for Nash. Have Nash make an impossible pass. Score two points.
Play #2 - Have Amare set a screen for Nash. Have Nash make his defender look silly and then hit nothing but net on his jump shot.
Play #3 - Have Diaw set a screen for Nash. Have Nash pull up for 3 and splash it all over his defenders face.
Here is a great video breaking down this mastermind offense. Because of D'Antoni, Nash has 32 and 17 on 70% shooting in a playoff elimination game, on the road. Dat system.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8SN5oHl7aY
DatAsh
03-22-2015, 02:32 PM
An assist is a scored basket
Whether it be a 2 pointer or 3
Points accounted for
I guess it depends on how you want to view the world "accountable". The passer is partly "accountable" for every pass that leads directly to a scored basket. He's only responsible for a - less than 1 - fraction of the points though.
If you're trying to assign value to an assist or point the way Pauk is, then 1 assist should generally be less valuable than 1 point. Giving the passer credit for 2 to 3 points - giving him full credit - means that the receiver of his passes would miss 100% of the time without the assist, which is obviously false.
I guess it depends on how you want to view the world "accountable". The passer is partly "accountable" for every pass that leads directly to a scored basket. He's only responsible for a - less than 1 - fraction of the points though.
If you're trying to assign value to an assist or point the way Pauk is, then 1 assist should generally be less valuable than 1 point. Giving the passer credit for 2 to 3 points - giving him full credit - means that the receiver of his passes would miss 100% of the time without the assist, which is obviously false.
You have gone down that dark road into ridiculous semantics that no longer have any bearing on your initial discussion. Are we really adding their points and assists and saying who is better? Wilt scored more than Russell, I believe.
DatAsh
03-22-2015, 03:39 PM
Are we really adding their points and assists and saying who is better?
I wasn't. Pauk always tries to add them together as if that's what he's trying to do. Not sure what his real intent is.
Wilt scored more than Russell, I believe.
Huh?
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