Hakeem and Shaq>>>>wilt/Russel

[retaxis]

Far more skill, ball handling, shot blocking, defence and intensity then these old school players. If Wilt/Russel played today, Wilt would be something like a Robin Lopez/Pachulia where as Russel would be like a Joel Anthony.

They played at a weak era without 3 pt shooting where everyone just jacked shots up and they grabbed easy rebounds over 6-5 centres and 5-9 guards. If Shaq were playing in those days you have to throw all ur 5-9 guards and ur 6-3 PFs and 6-5 stick figured centres at him. Hakeem would have an absolute field day with his arsenal of moves too.Wilt wouldn't give u anymore than Robin Lopez or Javale Mcgee on both ends of the floor and Russel at 6-9 would get eaten alive by DMC/AD/Gasols/D12 etc.

[retaxis]

Far more skill, ball handling, shot blocking, defence and intensity then these old school players. If Wilt/Russel played today, Wilt would be something like a Robin Lopez/Pachulia where as Russel would be like a Joel Anthony.

They played at a weak era without 3 pt shooting where everyone just jacked shots up and they grabbed easy rebounds over 6-5 centres and 5-9 guards. If Shaq were playing in those days you have to throw all ur 5-9 guards and ur 6-3 PFs and 6-5 stick figured centres at him. Hakeem would have an absolute field day with his arsenal of moves too.Wilt wouldn't give u anymore than Robin Lopez or Javale Mcgee on both ends of the floor and Russel at 6-9 would get eaten alive by DMC/AD/Gasols/D12 etc.
6-5 skinny centres and 5-8/5-9 slow point guards going for lay ups and shots in the post (no 3pt line back then) getting torn up to pieces by todays athletic big men.

[LAZERUSS]

Kareem and Thurmond >>>> Hakeem and Shaq.

A 38-39 year old KAJ averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against a 23-24 year old Hakeem in 10 straight H2H's. Included were THREE games of 40+ (40, 43, and 46 points.)

A 40 year old Kareem outscored a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the field by a .567 to .403 margin in their four H2H games.


A PEAK Shaq, playing against a fading Hakeem, put up a 37 point game, which was his highest game against Hakeem (Hakeem's high game against Shaq was 35 BTW.)


An aging Thurmond battled a PEAK Kareem in 35 H2H games. Kareem managed to score 30+ points against Nate in five games, with a HIGH of 34. And in those 35 games, KAJ shot .447 against Thurmond.


So, KAJ and Nate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shaq and Hakeem.

[Marchesk]

How original OP

[LAZERUSS]

6-5 skinny centres and 5-8/5-9 slow point guards going for lay ups and shots in the post (no 3pt line back then) getting torn up to pieces by todays athletic big men.

The current NBA has a plethora of 6-9 1/2 centers, most of whom are the best in the game (Howard, Cousins, Drummond, and Jordan.) Guess what...Bill Russell was exactly the same height (but was more athletic.)

Put the best centers of the early 70's up against the best centers of the current NBA, and it would be the equivalent of Hurricane Katrina. Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Dave Cowens, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore, Kareem, and Wilt, would just FEAST on these clowns. Hell, Neal Walk would be among the best centers in today's game.

[Helix]

Far more skill, ball handling, shot blocking, defence and intensity then these old school players. If Wilt/Russel played today, Wilt would be something like a Robin Lopez/Pachulia where as Russel would be like a Joel Anthony.

They played at a weak era without 3 pt shooting where everyone just jacked shots up and they grabbed easy rebounds over 6-5 centres and 5-9 guards. If Shaq were playing in those days you have to throw all ur 5-9 guards and ur 6-3 PFs and 6-5 stick figured centres at him. Hakeem would have an absolute field day with his arsenal of moves too.Wilt wouldn't give u anymore than Robin Lopez or Javale Mcgee on both ends of the floor and Russel at 6-9 would get eaten alive by DMC/AD/Gasols/D12 etc.


My oh my........how much worse can it get around here!

[retaxis]

People like to bump up these myths of these great players who were more physically gifted than modern players but let's look at world records in athletics etc e.g Olympics. World records are always being broken because humans have evolved. I have no doubt that Russell is modern days Joel Anthony and would not be able to play centre in today's day. He is just too undersized and weak to match up with the seven footers and would look like bosh playing a centre. Wily on the other hand would be a poor mans hibbert who can't shoot. Why do some people hold onto these myths that they would be great now? Wily played well against Kareem because Kareem respected him as a veteran when kareeem was entering the league. Once they got a few years into the leagle Kareem would eat wilt alive.

[LAZERUSS]

People like to bump up these myths of these great players who were more physically gifted than modern players but let's look at world records in athletics etc e.g Olympics. World records are always being broken because humans have evolved. I have no doubt that Russell is modern days Joel Anthony and would not be able to play centre in today's day. He is just too undersized and weak to match up with the seven footers and would look like bosh playing a centre. Wily on the other hand would be a poor mans hibbert who can't shoot. Why do some people hold onto these myths that they would be great now? Wily played well against Kareem because Kareem respected him as a veteran when kareeem was entering the league. Once they got a few years into the leagle Kareem would eat wilt alive.

Kareem was in his 4th season, and age 26 in Wilt's last season.

BTW, in their LAST 10 H2H games, a PEAK Kareem shot .434 against a 35-36 year old Wilt.

Given the fact that a prime Chamberlain was far more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would face a few years later, it is a certainty that a prime Chamberlain would have at least a prime Kareem's equal, and likely superior.

And we both know that a prime Wilt would have slaughtered the likes of Ewing and Hakeem.

[coin24]

Stop baiting Laz he cant wait to paste his saved essays:oldlol:

[zizozain]

Hakeem>wilt>Russel>Shaq

Kareem is the greatest tho

[-23-]

Kareem was in his 4th season, and age 26 in Wilt's last season.

BTW, in their LAST 10 H2H games, a PEAK Kareem shot .434 against a 35-36 year old Wilt.

Given the fact that a prime Chamberlain was far more dominant against the same centers that a prime Kareem would face a few years later, it is a certainty that a prime Chamberlain would have at least a prime Kareem's equal, and likely superior.

And we both know that a prime Wilt would have slaughtered the likes of Ewing and Hakeem.

I can't think of any player that peaks at 26, can you? There's no way Kareem's peak is at his 4th season

[LAZERUSS]

I can't think of any player that peaks at 26, can you? There's no way Kareem's peak is at his 4th season

Kareem PEAKED in his SECOND and THIRD seasons. He was NEVER again as dominant as he had been in those two years, and against the same centers he would face from those two years on.

And MANY players peaked in their early 20's. You could make a case that MJ peaked in his 4th season. Shaq's statistical numbers suggested that he peaked in his 2nd season. Chamberlain averaged a 50-25 in his third season. A young McAdoo hit his peak in his 3rd season. Thurmond hit his peak in his 3rd season.

BTW, most rebounders hit their peaks early on.

In any case, Kareem was 23-25 at his PEAK.

BTW, since you probably aren't aware of this fact...back in Kareem's day, players played four years of college ball before they were drafted into the NBA.

[ClipperRevival]

Kareem and Thurmond >>>> Hakeem and Shaq.

A 38-39 year old KAJ averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG% against a 23-24 year old Hakeem in 10 straight H2H's. Included were THREE games of 40+ (40, 43, and 46 points.)

A 40 year old Kareem outscored a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the field by a .567 to .403 margin in their four H2H games.


A PEAK Shaq, playing against a fading Hakeem, put up a 37 point game, which was his highest game against Hakeem (Hakeem's high game against Shaq was 35 BTW.)


An aging Thurmond battled a PEAK Kareem in 35 H2H games. Kareem managed to score 30+ points against Nate in five games, with a HIGH of 34. And in those 35 games, KAJ shot .447 against Thurmond.


So, KAJ and Nate >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Shaq and Hakeem.

Didn't Ralph Sampson primarily guard Kareem during 1985-1986?

[LAZERUSS]

Didn't Ralph Sampson primarily guard Kareem during 1985-1986?

Only in the WCF's. And he did a great job against Kareem.

In the regular season it was almost exclusively Hakeem. And his coach was roasted for it.

[ClipperRevival]

Only in the WCF's. And he did a great job against Kareem.

In the regular season it was almost exclusively Hakeem. And his coach was roasted for it.

Hmm. That sounds odd given that Sampson was the center.

But anyways, the Rockets did eliminate the Showtime Lakers in 1986 and Hakeem did average 31 ppg and 11 rpg in that playoff series. And that was in only his 2nd year.

[LAZERUSS]

Hmm. That sounds odd given that Sampson was the center.

But anyways, the Rockets did eliminate the Showtime Lakers in 1986 and Hakeem did average 31 ppg and 11 rpg in that playoff series. And that was in only his 2nd year.

I'm not at my main pc right now, but I have a link with Kareem's 46 point game against Hakeem. Same with newspaper recap. I will post them later.

And Sampson was their PF. He did move to KAJ in the '86 WCF's.

Oh, and in their four H2H's in the '86-87 season (no Sampson), a 40 year old Kareem outscore a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the floor by a .567 to .403 margin.

Hakeem was never close to being able to defend Kareem.

BTW, even in the '86 WCF's, Kareem averaged 27 ppg on a .492 FG%.

In his 10 regular season H2H's from '84-85 thru 85-86 against mostly Hakeem... 32 ppg on a .630 FG%, with three games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)

[ClipperRevival]

I'm not at my main pc right now, but I have a link with Kareem's 46 point game against Hakeem. Same with newspaper recap. I will post them later.

And Sampson was their PF. He did move to KAJ in the '86 WCF's.

Oh, and in their four H2H's in the '86-87 season (no Sampson), a 40 year old Kareem outscore a 25 year old Hakeem, and outshot him from the floor by a .567 to .403 margin.

Hakeem was never close to being able to defend Kareem.

BTW, even in the '86 WCF's, Kareem averaged 27 ppg on a .492 FG%.

In his 10 regular season H2H's from '84-85 thru 85-86 against mostly Hakeem... 32 ppg on a .630 FG%, with three games of 40, 43, and 46 points (on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes.)

I did check around and it did seem like Sampson was the PF.

But anyways, Hakeem was in his 1st and 2nd year during this time. He was raw. No shame giving up good numbers to Cap. But Hakeem also held his own.

It's like how much stock can you put into prime Hakeem schooling young Shaq? Some stock but not entirely. You have to see the circumstances for what it is.

[aj1987]

The current NBA has a plethora of 6-9 1/2 centers, most of whom are the best in the game (Howard, Cousins, Drummond, and Jordan.) Guess what...Bill Russell was exactly the same height (but was more athletic.)

Put the best centers of the early 70's up against the best centers of the current NBA, and it would be the equivalent of Hurricane Katrina. Willis Reed, Nate Thurmond, Wes Unseld, Elvin Hayes, Dave Cowens, Walt Bellamy, Bob Lanier, Artis Gilmore, Kareem, and Wilt, would just FEAST on these clowns. Hell, Neal Walk would be among the best centers in today's game.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

41 year old Steve Nash would be the best PG in the '60's and CURRENT MJ would be the best SG. Stop hyping up that weak ass era.

OP, yes, Hakeem & Shaq >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mental midget & Bill Russell.

[LAZERUSS]

I did check around and it did seem like Sampson was the PF.

But anyways, Hakeem was in his 1st and 2nd year during this time. He was raw. No shame giving up good numbers to Cap. But Hakeem also held his own.

It's like how much stock can you put into prime Hakeem schooling young Shaq? Some stock but not entirely. You have to see the circumstances for what it is.

That never happened. Even in the '95 Finals, Shaq outplayed Hakeem. And in their early H2H's it was at best, a draw for Hakeem. After '95, it was a one-sided beatdown. By the '99 playoffs a prime Shaq just wiped the floor with a fading Hakeem.

[ClipperRevival]

That never happened. Even in the '95 Finals, Shaq outplayed Hakeem. And in their early H2H's it was at best, a draw for Hakeem. After '95, it was a one-sided beatdown. By the '99 playoffs a prime Shaq just wiped the floor with a fading Hakeem.

Oh boy, here we go again. I conceded a little in your way and was hoping you would do the same. Hakeem's Rockets swept the Magic and Hakeem won Finals MVP. Game. Set. Match.

[LAZERUSS]

Oh boy, here we go again. I conceded a little in your way and was hoping you would do the same. Hakeem's Rockets swept the Magic and Hakeem won Finals MVP. Game. Set. Match.

I'll get back to this topic later.

The REALITY was, Hakeem's TEAMMATES slaughtered Shaq's TEAMMATES.

I'll post more on this later.

[dubeta]

Wilt wouldn't even be able to make the league today, forget about him 'matching' with the best bigs today

[ClipperRevival]

I'll get back to this topic later.

The REALITY was, Hakeem's TEAMMATES slaughtered Shaq's TEAMMATES.

I'll post more on this later.

I already read what you have to say about this topic and that's why I said, "oh boy, here we go again." I have no interest in seeing this again so don't bother.

[-23-]

Kareem PEAKED in his SECOND and THIRD seasons. He was NEVER again as dominant as he had been in those two years, and against the same centers he would face from those two years on.

And MANY players peaked in their early 20's. You could make a case that MJ peaked in his 4th season. Shaq's statistical numbers suggested that he peaked in his 2nd season. Chamberlain averaged a 50-25 in his third season. A young McAdoo hit his peak in his 3rd season. Thurmond hit his peak in his 3rd season.

BTW, most rebounders hit their peaks early on.

In any case, Kareem was 23-25 at his PEAK.

BTW, since you probably aren't aware of this fact...back in Kareem's day, players played four years of college ball before they were drafted into the NBA.

Thanks for proving that you're just a stat whore. There's more to a peak than just stats. If you're trying to argue that Shaq/Mj peaked in their 4th season, you're just straight up delusional. It's almost a consensus that MJ PEAK play was 91-93. Where he was not just refined as a scorer, but as a teammate as well.

[ClipperRevival]

It's just so annoying to see youngsters so blatantly disrespect greats of the past and on the flip side, seeing the old timers give little respect to today's players. Why can't you people be more objective and just try to see things for what they are? This board is so littered with both groups. Do you not love this game? If so, why must you have such agendas and such biased beliefs/opinions?

[Marchesk]

Wilt wouldn't even be able to make the league today, forget about him 'matching' with the best bigs today

http://s14.postimg.org/887bx3rw1/wilt_top_backboard.jpg

Show a picture of another NBA player getting that close to the top of the backboard. Wilt did that off one step.

[LAZERUSS]

I did check around and it did seem like Sampson was the PF.

But anyways, Hakeem was in his 1st and 2nd year during this time. He was raw. No shame giving up good numbers to Cap. But Hakeem also held his own.

It's like how much stock can you put into prime Hakeem schooling young Shaq? Some stock but not entirely. You have to see the circumstances for what it is.


First things first...

Kareem vs. Hakeem. Just a one-sided beatdown from day 1....

Here is the footage of a 39 year old Kareem just annihilating a 24 year old Hakeem one-on-one...

http://www.nba.com/video/channels/nba_tv/2013/09/13/20130803-kareem-vs-rockets.nba/

How about a newspaper recap...

https://news.google.ca/newspapers?id=GQ4QAAAAIBAJ&sjid=nYsDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2074,1339920&hl=en

How about their career H2H's...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=olajuha01

And take a look at their four H2H's in 86-87 (Sampson did not play in any)...with a 40 year old Kareem vs. a 25 year old Hakeem.


And again, in their first 10 straight H2H's...a 38-39 year old Kareem averaged 32 ppg on a .630 FG%, with three games of 40+.

Now, given the fact that Kareem's PEAK began in the second half of his rookie season, and at age 22, and thru the entire 70-71 season and post-season, and then thru the entire 71-72 regular season, and at age 24...

how do you think a 40 year old Hakeem would have fared against a 25 year old Kareem?


BTW, how about a 35-36 year old Artis Gilmore vs a 23-24 year old Hakeem, and in their fist TEN straight H2H's from 84-85 thru 85-86...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gilmoar01.html

Gilmore averaged 23.7 ppg, on get this... a .677 FG%!

Next...

[sd3035]

http://s14.postimg.org/887bx3rw1/wilt_top_backboard.jpg

Show a picture of another NBA player getting that close to the top of the backboard. Wilt did that off one step.


Kevin Durant

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2nknig.jpg

[LAZERUSS]

Oh boy, here we go again. I conceded a little in your way and was hoping you would do the same. Hakeem's Rockets swept the Magic and Hakeem won Finals MVP. Game. Set. Match.

Again, one of the biggest myths in NBA history was the so-called "schooling of Shaq" by Hakeem in the '95 Finals.

But let someone who actually took the time to break that series down play-by-play help...

Thanks to Colts18...


I decided to rewatch the 1995 finals and chart each possession to see to how effective Shaq and Hakeem were on the court. A special shout out to Jordanbulls for providing the video of this series


Total:
Hakeem: 253 touches, 140 doubles (55.3%)
Shaq: 221 touches, 146 doubles (66.1%)

Here are their stats when they were guarded by each other:
Shaq 32-57 (56.1 FG%), 6-8 FT, 67.3 double teamed%, .578 TS%, 17 assists, 1 O-reb allowed to Hakeem
Hakeem: 31-75 (41.3 FG%), 9-13 FT, 60.2 double teamed%, .446 TS%, 8 assists, 3 O-reb allowed to Shaq

Shaq blocked 2 Hakeem shots, Hakeem blocked 0 Shaq shots. Hakeem did make a 3P on Shaq. Hakeem guarded Shaq on 73.3% of the touches he had, while Shaq guarded Hakeem on 69.6% of his touches. Hakeem got a lot more fastbreak touches than Shaq so in the halfcourt, they guarded each other about even.

When they weren't being guarded by each other, Shaq was being guarded by Charles Jones and Hakeem by Horace Grant.

Shaq vs Jones: 7-11 FG (63.6 FG%), 35 doubles in 52 touches (67.3%), 2 assists
Hakeem vs Grant: 13-24 (54.2 FG%), 33 double teams in 58 touches (56.9%), 6 assists

Jump shots:
Hakeem: 27-62 (43.5%)
Shaq: 2-7 (28.6%)

The vast majority of Shaq's shots were close range hooks.

Dunks:
Hakeem: 1 dunk (vs grant)
Shaq: 9 dunks (2 of them were in Hakeem's face)

Fouls drawn on offense:
Shaq: 37 (17 on Hakeem)
Hakeem: 21 (9 on Shaq)

Hakeem did draw 4 Shaq charges.

Shaq was called for 5 travels, Hakeem 2.

Plus/Minus (Houston outscored Orlando by 28 points total):
On court:
Shaq: -12 in 180 minutes
Hakeem: +17 in 179 minutes

Off court:
Shaq: -16 in 16:37 of action (Houston scored 133 points per 48 in the minutes Shaq missed)
Hakeem: +11 in 17:11 of action (134 points per 48 in the minutes he was off the court)

Interestingly enough, in 2 of the games, the Magic outscored the Rockets when Shaq was on the court. The magic were -8 in about 9 minutes of action without Shaq in game (lost by just 2 points). In game 3, they were -4 in the minutes Shaq missed in a game where they lost by 3 points. In game 1, the Rockets outscored the magic by 9 in the minutes Hakeem missed, but they were outscored by a combined 4 points in games 3 and 4 without Hakeem.

Observations:
-Orlando was for some reason really committed to doubling Hakeem in game 1. They were throwing a lot of hard doubles. Hakeem had 5 assists in that game, all of them 3 pointers, 4 came off of doubles (one was a triple team). I'm guessing it was a response to Hakeem's series vs Robinson. For the rest of the series, Orlando didn't double Hakeem as much and they threw softer doubles.

-Hakeem made like 5 or 6 baskets in transition to Shaq's 1 or so. So while Shaq didn't get credit for giving up those buckets since he didn't guard, a few of those times Shaq was slow in transition. Shaq got about 3 or shots

-One of the commentators compared Horry to Scottie Pippen and Walton took the comment seriously. They are vastly different players IMO

-I'm not sure why Penny wasn't more aggressive. Kenny Smith couldn't guard him at all. When Penny did drive to the basket, he made a few shots over Hakeem.

-Drexler was the man in this series. He really wanted to get his first title badly. For some reason, people rarely talk about him despite him getting more WS than Hakeem in that playoff run

-It's fashionable these days to **** on Hakeem's cast in 94, but this cast was much better than that one. The guards outplayed Orlando's guards. Horry played really well. The 3P shooters benefited a lot from the shortened 3P line.

-Contrary to popular belief, handchecking wasn't allowed in 95. The refs called like 2 handchecking fouls in this series

-I'm so thankful the NBA got rid of the illegal defense. The refs called like 5 of them in each game. It destroyed the flow of the game and limited the ways you could double team a player.

More info...


Of course, aside from Colts18, whose take was right on...

Here were the REAL facts of that series...

Hakeem's teammates just ANNIHILATED Shaq's. Shaq averaged 6.3 apg in that series, and if his brick-laying teammates could have hit anything remotely close to a normal percentage, it would have been considerably higher.

Hakeem's TEAMMATES outshot Shaq's TEAMMATES from the field by a .467 to .434 margin. And it was even worse from the arc... .402 to .347.

Then, think about this...

Take Shaq and Hakeem's FT's MADE out of the equation (and BTW, Shaq MADE more...(24-18)...and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 78-37 margin in that series...or 41 points.

Now, in game one, Hakeem's Rockets beat Shaq's Magic, 120-118. We all know that Nick Anderson missed four straight FTs in the last 10 secs, but to add to that, take away Shaq's and Hakeem's made FTs, and the Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's by a 13-7 margin from the line.

How about game two? First of all, I get a kick out of those that claim that Hakeem outplayed Shaq in the first half, and that Shaq's 23 second half points were meaningless. the FACT was, Hakeem was a beaten dog in the second half. He was physically beaten to a pulp. Furthermore, had Shaq not gotten into some questionable foul trouble in the first half, the game might have been mych different. In any case, the Rockets won by 11 points, and Hakeem's teammates outscored Shaq's from the line, by a 28-9 margin.

Game three. More of the same. Houston wins 106-103...and Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by a 18-13 margin. BTW, Hakeem outscored Shaq, 31-28, but he went 14-30 from the field, while Shaq went 11-17. Pretty much the way of the entire series. Hakeem scored 4.8 ppg more in the seties, but took over 10 more FGAs per game to do so.

Game four. More of the same. Hakeem's teammates outscore Shaq's from the line by an 18-8 margin...in a 12 point win. This is the ONLY game in the series in which Hakeem outplayed Shaq.

And, don't forget that this was a 22 year old Shaq, playing against a Hakeem in his his absolute prime. Oh, and BTW, the Hakeem fans will never mention that a 26 year old Shaq just obliterated a 36 year old Hakeem a couple of years later in yet just another first round exit for Hakeem.

And then this...


Hakeem's TEAMMATES, collectively, had a considerably higher TS% in that series, than Hakeem, himself. So, those that favor this stat, had better prepared to explain that. Looks to me like Houston won that series DESPITE Hakeem.

Meanwhile, Shaq's TS% in that Finals was far greater than what his teammates gave him.

Hakeem shot 55-115 from the field, 1-1 from the arc, and 18-26 from the line.
His teammates shot 70-136 from 2pt range, 36-91 from the arc, and 77-97 from the line.

Shaq shot 44-74 from the field, and 24-42 from the line.
His teammates shot 78-156 from 2 pt range, 41-118 from the arc, and 37-47 from the line.

Using a TRUE TS%, Hakeem shot .508. His teammates collectively shot .589.

Shaq shot a TRUE TS% of .589. His teammates shot a collective .533.


Hell, Hakeem didn't even shoot the post-season NBA average in eFG% (.488 to the league average of .504.)

Hakeem was SAVED by his TEAMMATES in the '95 Finals.

Now, how about their career H2H's...

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=olajuha01&p2=onealsh01

At BEST, a PEAK Hakeem held his own against a 20-22 year old Shaq, and the reality was, that was being generous to Hakeem. After the '95 Finals, Shaq pretty much treated owned Hakeem.

Interesting too, the Hakeem-lovers always bring up the '95 Finals, but they quietly avoid their '99 playoff H2H, when once again, Hakeem led his team down in flames in the first round, while Shaq just abused him.

[LAZERUSS]

Kevin Durant

http://oi62.tinypic.com/2nknig.jpg

Yep...the total of extent of the research done by the "bashers."

Their only form of research is in their coloring books.

[sd3035]

Yep...the total of extent of the research done by the "bashers."

Their only form of research is in their coloring books.


that's clearly above 13 feet, don't be a hater

[LAZERUSS]

It's just so annoying to see youngsters so blatantly disrespect greats of the past and on the flip side, seeing the old timers give little respect to today's players. Why can't you people be more objective and just try to see things for what they are? This board is so littered with both groups. Do you not love this game? If so, why must you have such agendas and such biased beliefs/opinions?

I hope you were not directing that line at me.

Here is my current all-time Top-13...

1. Wilt
2. MJ
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Russell
6. Shaq
7. Duncan
8. Kobe
9. Lebron
10. Bird
11. Moses
12. Hakeem
13. Dr. J

Two players from the 60's, three players from the 70's, 4 players from the 80's, 2 from the 90's, and 2 from the 00's. And all of them spanned at least two decades.

[retaxis]

Wilt is a good modern day backup centre. I wouldn't trust him with scoring though he doesn't seem to be as effective as other ATG notice the wilting in the playoffs. Russell on the other hand would be an Elton brand who can't make jump shots and would have a reggie Evans sort of role. I have no doubt these guys would not match up with the likes of dwight, DMC, gasol etc. they will still be good role players but a player like mozgov in the 60s people will be saying he is 9 feet tall and could do layups from half court.

[LAZERUSS]

Wilt is a good modern day backup centre. I wouldn't trust him with scoring though he doesn't seem to be as effective as other ATG notice the wilting in the playoffs. Russell on the other hand would be an Elton brand who can't make jump shots and would have a reggie Evans sort of role. I have no doubt these guys would not match up with the likes of dwight, DMC, gasol etc. they will still be good role players but a player like mozgov in the 60s people will be saying he is 9 feet tall and could do layups from half court.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Just too funny.

Thanks for the jokes. Nice to see one here with a sense of humor.