Rip Hamilton

[3ball]

Think about how this guy got his points - now realize that's how ALL wings played in previous eras - SG's and SF's alike - there were no ball-dominant wing players in the 80's and up until the mid-90's.

Guys like Dominique, Drexler, and Jordan scored EXACTLY the same way Rip Hamilton did - by moving off-ball - the only difference is they were way more athletic.. But most of their buckets were catch-and-shoot or catch-and-go buckets just like Rip - that's just how all wings used to play.

That's why it's so funny when new fans compare wing players from different eras, and then debate which era made it more difficult to dribble-penetrate - previous era wings were never affected by efforts to stop dribble-penetration, because they didn't dribble-penetrate..

Furthermore, off-ball players benefit the most from spacing and ball movement, so previous era wings are better suited to take advantage the current environment than today's more exploitable, point-guard-wannabe wing players.. Anytime a good defense focuses on stopping a ball-dominator, the ball-dominator invariably gets shut down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4) unless they have an off-ball game (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) they can resort to.

Also, today's fans are wrong about dribble-penetration anyway - it's easy to prove that dribble penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. NBA Vice-President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson was the creator and implementer of the new rules, and he said a major objective (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of the new rules was to increase dribble-penetration.. He subsequently stated the rule changes had worked (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to increase penetration, thus proving that penetration occurs more now than before the rule changes.

The NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that penetration accounts for more points than any other method in today's game, just like the NBA intended - the game is now based on dribble-penetration.. Not that any of this matters - again, the off-ball games of previous era wings have never been affected by efforts to stop dribble penetration - infact, off-ball players are the biggest beneficiaries of the spacing and ball movement that today's game provides.
.

[ISHGoat]

http://img.pandawhale.com/150454-dubya-didnt-read-lol-gif-Imgur-mFw7.gif


SHUT THE FCUK UP 3BALLS

[Chadwin]

If defenders are respecting the shooters in both eras and staying close to a man, then it's easier to get into the paint now.

[T_L_P]

Only thing I remember was Rip being better than Jordan in the era where zone defenses were allowed.

[3ball]

If defenders are respecting the shooters in both eras and staying close to a man, then it's easier to get into the paint now.


Also, today's fans are wrong about dribble-penetration anyway - it's easy to prove that dribble penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. NBA Vice-President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson was the creator and implementer of the new rules, and he said a major objective (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of the new rules was to increase dribble-penetration.. He subsequently stated the rule changes had worked (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to increase penetration, thus proving that penetration occurs more now than before the rule changes.

The NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that penetration accounts for more points than any other method in today's game, just like the NBA intended - the game is now based on dribble-penetration.. Not that any of this matters - again, the off-ball games of previous era wings have never been affected by efforts to stop dribble penetration - infact, off-ball players are the biggest beneficiaries of the spacing and ball movement that today's game provides.
.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Guys like Dominique, Drexler, and Jordan scored EXACTLY the same way Rip Hamilton did - by moving off-ball - the only difference is they were way more athletic..
Some of the purest bullshit I've seen all day.

[3ball]

Some of the purest bullshit I've seen all day.
It's not bullshit at all.

Drexler, MJ and Dominique scored most of their points off of catch-and-go's and catch-and-shoot.

Are you disputing this?... It's a fact.

When did you ever see Dominique or Drexler employ a point-guard style ala Westbrook, Harden or Lebron?
.

[Chadwin]

my summary of illegal D vs zone era:

if you are surrounded by crap shooters that aren't respected, it is easier to get into the paint in the illegal D era (defenders can't help on a Don Nelson iso in the illegal D era but can flood your side in the zone era)

if you are surrounded by good shooters that are respected, it is easier to get into the paint in the zone era (defenders have to stay at home in both eras but the guy on you cannot hand/forearm check in the zone era)

in theory of course

[Real Men Wear Green]

It's not bullshit at all - it's just not something you had thought of in that way before.

Drexler, MJ and Dominique scored most of their points off of catch-and-go's and catch-and-shoot.

Are you disputing this?... It's a fact.

When did you ever see Dominique or Drexler employ a point-guard style ala Westbrook, Harden or Lebron?
Yes, they scored after catching the ball. :rolleyes: That is accurate. What is garbage is your assertion that they played like Rip Hamilton. You are talking about some of the greatest slashers the game has ever seen. Guys that got double and triple-teamed. They were defended that way because a single defender absolutely could not keep them from the basket. No, they did not play like point guards (where did that come from?) but Jordan was a good enough ballhandler that he could play pg and in fact did at points early in his career. Reggie Miller played like Rip Hamilton. Not MJ, Drexler or Nique. This is not Rip. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gBSYqK4HkM)

[G0ATbe]

I agree. Jordan would be a rich mans Rip Hamilton in this era.

[Im Still Ballin]

Think about how this guy got his points - now realize that's how ALL wings played in previous eras - SG's and SF's alike - there were no ball-dominant wing players in the 80's and up until the mid-90's.

Guys like Dominique, Drexler, and Jordan scored EXACTLY the same way Rip Hamilton did - by moving off-ball - the only difference is they were way more athletic.. But most of their buckets were catch-and-shoot or catch-and-go buckets just like Rip - that's just how all wings used to play.

That's why it's so funny when new fans compare wing players from different eras, and then debate which era made it more difficult to dribble-penetrate - previous era wings were never affected by efforts to stop dribble-penetration, because they didn't dribble-penetrate..

Furthermore, off-ball players benefit the most from spacing and ball movement, so previous era wings are better suited to take advantage the current environment than today's more exploitable, point-guard-wannabe wing players.. Anytime a good defense focuses on stopping a ball-dominator, the ball-dominator invariably gets shut down (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4) unless they have an off-ball game (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) they can resort to.

Also, today's fans are wrong about dribble-penetration anyway - it's easy to prove that dribble penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. NBA Vice-President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson was the creator and implementer of the new rules, and he said a major objective (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of the new rules was to increase dribble-penetration.. He subsequently stated the rule changes had worked (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to increase penetration, thus proving that penetration occurs more now than before the rule changes.

The NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that penetration accounts for more points than any other method in today's game, just like the NBA intended - the game is now based on dribble-penetration.. Not that any of this matters - again, the off-ball games of previous era wings have never been affected by efforts to stop dribble penetration - infact, off-ball players are the biggest beneficiaries of the spacing and ball movement that today's game provides.
.
Incorrect 2ball,

MJ played his career in the illegal defense rule schemes era, whilst Rip played during the heightened peak of defense, after the removal of illegal defenses in 2000 and 2001, and prior to the handchecking rules (That however was already truly dealt with during the 80's and 90's)... Jordan benefited as an individual from the 90's defense, he often didn't have to play much off-ball and could isolate frequently as the rules gave him freedom to do so without the defense being able to react and change...

otoh;

Why the low post offense has declined (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370159)


In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).

http://media.giphy.com/media/PfS9JTMb9zF7i/giphy.gif
- Notice the single coverage, open paint

In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-KIom4maMFs/STc0_Mq5DlI/AAAAAAAAOrY/zT3MdULists/s1600/2-3%2BZone.jpg
- Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lol Jordan would bring the ball up and run the offense quite often. No comparison with Rip.

[3ball]

You are talking about some of the greatest slashers the game has ever seen (Drexler, Dominique, MJ)


True, but for off-ball players like Rip and Reggie, slashing and spotting up was ALL they did - but obviously, the slashing part wasn't done as athletically as Drexler or Dominique..

You're just being confused by the athleticism difference, which inspired you to correctly state that Dominique, Drexler, and MJ are some of the greatest slashers of all time - but Rip and Reggie slashed just as much, just not nearly as athletically.





they scored after catching the ball.


Btw, the bolded above is all that's needed to prove the point - since Drexler, Dominique and MJ score in an off-ball fashion AFTER catching the ball, they aren't affected by efforts to stop dribble-penetration.

[ImKobe]

Incorrect 2ball,

MJ played his career in the illegal defense rule schemes era, whilst Rip played during the heightened peak of defense, after the removal of illegal defenses in 2000 and 2001, and prior to the handchecking rules (That however was already truly dealt with during the 80's and 90's)... Jordan benefited as an individual from the 90's defense, he often didn't have to play much off-ball and could isolate frequently as the rules gave him freedom to do so without the defense being able to react and change...

otoh;

Why the low post offense has declined (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=370159)

Kobe has done some incredible stuff against zone defenses and his 2009 & 2010 runs are very underrated because of that. He actually posted up in the zone and just shot over his defenders, no petty Lebron-go-into-pass-mode type of shit every time around. People wonder why Kobe shoots so much, but you put him in the 90s in his prime years and you'd see him put up even bigger scoring numbers than he did in the mid-2000s, imo.

Handchecking would be legal, but we saw what he did in 01. Dude would average 40 a game in Jordan's era.

[3ball]

If the creator and implementer of the new rules (VP of Operations Stu Jackson) says increasing penetration is a major objective (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of the new rules, and then says the new rules HAVE WORKED (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to increase penetration, then that proves penetration is higher today than it was before.

Period.

We can take the NBA's word for it - we don't even need the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) that show penetration accounts for more points than any other scoring method in today's game.

[Real Men Wear Green]

True, but for off-ball players like Rip and Reggie, slashing and spotting up was ALL they did - but obviously, the slashing part wasn't done as athletically as Drexler or Dominique..

You're just being confused by the athleticism difference, which inspired you to correctly state that Dominique, Drexler, and MJ are some of the greatest slashers of all time - but Rip and Reggie slashed just as much, just not nearly as athletically.:oldlol:




Btw, the bolded above is all that's needed to prove the point - since Drexler, Dominique and MJ score in an off-ball fashion AFTER catching the ball, they aren't affected by efforts to stop dribble-penetration.
Confession: I don't know who scores without catching the ball as I had always thought catching the ball was the first part of getting the ball but I forget that I'm talking to the father of the off-ball assist so whatever.

[3ball]

in 2001, zones were permitted


But in 2005, the NBA introduced a new defensive 3 seconds rule, which banned zones INSIDE the paint.

After the rule change, zones were only allowed outside the paint.. INSIDE the paint, the new defensive 3 seconds rule took over - this rule forced defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times, or vacate the paint - this is the very definition of man-to-man defense.

Furthermore, it's a VERY STRICT brand of man-to-man: a man's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is 16 x 19 feet, so paint defenders must stand right next to their man at all times, even when both players are inside the paint.

Previous era paint defenders were allowed this armslength provision too, but they could also stay in the lane if their man was OUT of armslength reach - the defender's man could be anywhere inside the paint and up to 3 feet outside the lane on either side, as stipulated in rule Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines:

2b. "When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area."

Rule 2b allowed paint defenders to stand far away from their man - this is definition of zone defense.. Indeed, zone defense was allowed in the paint in previous eras.. Otoh, today's game requires man-to-man defense in the paint, as stipulated by the armslength provision (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) in the defensive 3 seconds rule.
.

[SaltyMeatballs]

When I first read the title I thought some guy with the last name of Hamilton died and then I realized you were talking about RICHARD Hamilton :oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe has done some incredible stuff against zone defenses and his 2009 & 2010 runs are very underrated because of that. He actually posted up in the zone and just shot over his defenders, no petty Lebron-go-into-pass-mode type of shit every time around. People wonder why Kobe shoots so much, but you put him in the 90s in his prime years and you'd see him put up even bigger scoring numbers than he did in the mid-2000s, imo.

Handchecking would be legal, but we saw what he did in 01. Dude would average 40 a game in Jordan's era.
Agreed

The hand-checking rule is often overstated anyways

They had been complaining about hand-checking since the 70's... and they in fact made rules against it much earlier than 2004

[3ball]

:oldlol:


the athleticism blinds you - you simply can't distinguish between a catch-and-go that resulted in a boring a layup or runner from Rip, and a catch-and-go that resulted in an acrobatic, athletic play from Dominique or MJ.

it's the same thing, but the athleticism makes it look different to you - don't worry, as you get older, you get smarter.

[Rooster]

It's not bullshit at all.

Drexler, MJ and Dominique scored most of their points off of catch-and-go's and catch-and-shoot.

Are you disputing this?... It's a fact.

When did you ever see Dominique or Drexler employ a point-guard style ala Westbrook, Harden or Lebron?
.

:facepalm :facepalm

LMAO .

How can Jordan averaged 23 FGA and averaged 5 assist if he was an off ball player.

Something does not add up in your fact.:oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

But in 2005, the NBA introduced a new defensive 3 seconds rule, which banned zones INSIDE the paint.

After the rule change, zones were only allowed outside the paint.. INSIDE the paint, the new defensive 3 seconds rule took over - this rule forced defenders to stay within armslength (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) of their man at all times, or vacate the paint - this is the very definition of man-to-man defense.

Furthermore, it's a VERY STRICT brand of man-to-man: a man's arm is only 3 feet long and the paint is 16 x 19 feet, so paint defenders must stand right next to their man at all times, even when both players are inside the paint.

Previous era paint defenders were allowed this armslength provision too, but they could also stay in the lane if their man was OUT of armslength reach - the defender's man could be anywhere inside the paint and up to 3 feet outside the lane on either side, as stipulated in rule Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines:

2b. "When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is adjacent (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area."

Rule 2b allowed paint defenders to stand far away from their man - this is definition of zone defense.. Indeed, zone defense was allowed in the paint in previous eras.. Otoh, today's game requires man-to-man defense in the paint, as stipulated by the armslength provision (http://www.nba.com/nba101/misunderstood_0708.html) in the defensive 3 seconds rule.
What you've posted is convoluted bull shit

That is describing a post up play

[3ball]

I had always thought catching the ball was the first part of getting the ball


see, this is what i'm talking about you not being too bright.

today's strong-side flood is specifically designed to stop the ballhandler, but the tactic is actually exploited by ball movement and off-ball players.

off-ball play is not the same as being the ballhandler... i recommend you go back to school.

[3ball]

:facepalm :facepalm

LMAO .

How can Jordan averaged 23 FGA and averaged 5 assist if he was an off ball player.

Something does not add up in your fact.:oldlol:
jordan scored most of his points off-ball.. watch ANY game.

he had many 40 and 50 point games where he would score ALL his point off-ball... or on all jumpshots... or on all drives.

whatever hole the defense provided, Jordan would exploit THAT hole - he wouldn't try to pound a square peg into a round hole (i.e. the way Lebron forces lebron-ball at all times).

[Real Men Wear Green]

see, this is what i'm talking about you not being too bright.So...catch the ball is not part of getting the ball?


today's strong-side flood is specifically designed to stop the ballhandler, but the tactic is actually exploited by ball movement and off-ball players.

off-ball play is not the same as being the ballhandler... i recommend you go back to school.
See, here's the thing: Unlike you, I actually know what I'm talking about and have actually seen Jordan, Nique, Hamilton, Miller, and Drexler play. The reason why you are completely disqualified from discussion is that you persist in writing really dumb things. You write a lot in support of your thesis but you're basically a 15 year-old trying to reach a word minimum on an English paper. Because no one, and I mean, no one, that actually watched Rip Hamilton and MJ would say they played the same4 style. You tossed in your little qualifier "but MJ was more athletic"...

But, no.

If you are going to say MJ was like Hamilton you might as well say he was like JJ Redick. Just more athletic. Like Tony Allen. Just more athletic. I mean, they're all shooting guards, right? What could possibly be the difference?

Did we see Miller and Hamilton perfect the fadeaway? Beat double-teams off the dribble? I bet Miller and Hamilton would both tell you that you're full of shit. You think MJ could have a season averaging 35 points and 6 assists imitating Reggie Miller? You're a verbose dumbass. Idiots don't make more sense by talking more, they just produce a lot more stupidity.

[3ball]

defenders can't help on an iso



http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif


You left spacing out of your analysis - when there is spacing, defenders have to help much more often..

Without spacing, defenders are in closer proximity and can help from closer distances.. or they are already there ready to help.





defenders can flood your side in the zone era


Today's defensive 3 seconds rule and spacing forces bigs out of the paint - they must defend in a flood and shading-type fashion, which means coming AWAY from the hoop and defending a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - today's game forces bigs to trade in their strength and advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (previous era paint-camping), for a major disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult.. Teams score more today than in the mid-90's.

[Smoke117]

You're a moron.

[3ball]

If you are going to say MJ was like Hamilton you might as well say he was like JJ Redick. Just more athletic.


Why don't you go on youtube and watch an old Jordan game - ANY game - just the highlights are sufficient.

You'll see that a super-ton of his points are spot-up jumpers just like JJ Redick.. There are many games where he scores literally 40+ and 50+ points ON ALL CATCH-AND-SHOOT, even in the Finals.

As an off-ball player, Jordan scored mostly via catch-and-shoot and catch-and-go slashes - watch any game and you'll see 80% of his points are scored this way, just like Rip and Reggie.

You DO know what catch-and-shoot and catch-and-go means right?... It almost sounds like you don't, because you seem to think that Rip did these things, but not MJ.

[Eric Cartman]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/didnt-read-lol-gif-4.gif

[jzek]

RIP :cry:

[warriorfan]

http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/didnt-read-lol-gif-4.gif


racist

[04mzwach]

Why don't you go on youtube and watch an old Jordan game - ANY game - just the highlights are sufficient.

You'll see that a super-ton of his points are spot-up jumpers just like JJ Redick.. There are many games where he scores literally 40+ and 50+ points ON ALL CATCH-AND-SHOOT, even in the Finals.

As an off-ball player, Jordan scored mostly via catch-and-shoot and catch-and-go slashes - watch any game and you'll see 80% of his points are scored this way, just like Rip and Reggie.

You DO know what catch-and-shoot and catch-and-go means right?... It almost sounds like you don't, because you seem to think that Rip did these things, but not MJ.
Jordan scored in many different ways. Rip's specialty was catch and shoot, while Jordan was post up fade, stepback fades, off the dribble drives. Jordan was more ball dominant than Rip and a much better scorer. Catch and shoots are designed for great shooters. Sure, Jordan can shoot but Rip is an elite shooter. Ray Allen is an elite shooter. Kyle Korver is an elite shooter. All guys that would be great for the catch and shoot.

[3ball]

If you are going to say MJ was like Hamilton you might as well say he was like JJ Redick. Just more athletic.


A big part of Jordan's game was playing like JJ Redick - I would estimate that 30-40% of Jordan's points came from catch-and-shoot... It was a HUGE part of his game - I wouldn't have made this thread otherwise.

If you don't realize this, then you haven't seen Jordan play - you might think you have, but in reality, you're just some starry-eyed, dumb kid that doesn't know what he's watching.

Btw, I've played against many NBA players competitively, not just pick up ball, so I know what I'm talking about and have a deeper understanding of how the game works.. Whereas what are you?.. You just watch the game like a casual fan - you're just some shallow-thinking fool who thinks Jordan didn't play anything like JJ Redick... like a wide-eyed kid who has no clue
.

[ZMonkey11]

Hamilton compared to Jordan. Hamilton reacts.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/Michael%20Jordan/2%20Washington%20Wizards/l347628cd0000121668ed1.jpg

[Chadwin]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif


You left spacing out of your analysis - when there is spacing, defenders have to help much more often..

Without spacing, defenders are in closer proximity and can help from closer distances.. or they are already there ready to help.



Today's defensive 3 seconds rule and spacing forces bigs out of the paint - they must defend in a flood and shading-type fashion, which means coming AWAY from the hoop and defending a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - today's game forces bigs to trade in their strength and advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (previous era paint-camping), for a major disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult.. Teams score more today than in the mid-90's.

That's not a Don Nelson iso.

[3ball]

That's not a Don Nelson iso.
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif


No one did Don Nelson iso's except Don Nelson, and they weren't successful then or now..

Most people don't realize that isolation plays are LOWER PERCENTAGE PLAYS - the shots they obtain are more contested than shots obtained via screen-roll penetration or ball movement.. Like, if Lebron started iso'ing every play, his percentage would go DOWN, not up.

Isolations have never been a winning strategy - no championship team from the 80's won with isolations - teams like the Celtics and Lakers ran beautiful offenses that relied on the best ball movement and teamwork the game's ever seen.

Btw, the 2nd GIF above shows the same type of defense as the first one - that was the standard setup when Jordan caught it on the elbow - defenders weren't guarding the 3-point line, so they didn't have anywhere else to go other than the paint.

[aj1987]

Do people actually still read 3ball's posts? :facepalm

[navy]

Btw, I've played against many NBA players competitively, not just pick up ball, so I know what I'm talking about and have a deeper understanding of how the game works..
.
Are we gonna let this slide?

[warriorfan]

Are we gonna let this slide?


3ball is Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan is 3ball

[navy]

3ball is Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan is 3ball
Hmmm....it's possible.

But no way someone can make a claim like that and not back it up.

3ball. Explain.

[3ball]

Hmmm....it's possible.

But no way someone can make a claim like that and not back it up.

3ball. Explain.
i played D1

(pm me for pictures)

haha as if a billionaire would have time to come on here himself..

[3ball]

Btw, just for the record, here's a couple Finals games where Jordan scores most his points on catch and shoot jumpers, and virtually ALL of them off-ball:

1993 Finals, Game Two, 42/12/9

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpJIzWgD-mI\



1992 Finals, Game Five, 46 PTS

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIZ3d0pnY1U

[Kblaze8855]

So I imagined Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, and so on I guess....isolation wings were invented in 1996.....those dudes were not clearing out and slowing the game down going one on one...

Adrian shot 57% comingoff screens to shoot long 2s all day...

[3ball]

So I imagined Adrian Dantley, Mark Aguirre, and so on I guess....isolation wings were invented in 1996.....those dudes were not clearing out and slowing the game down going one on one...

Adrian shot 57% comingoff screens to shoot long 2s all day...
For the most part, off-ball play consists of catch-and-go, catch-and-shoot, and post/triple-threat.

The latter is the most iso-oriented and ball-dominant (ball-stopper) although none are as iso-oriented or ball-stopper as dribble penetration.

Dominique and Drexler were catch-and-shoot and catch-and-go guys, who also utilized SOME triple-threat/post-game to their repertoire.

Aguirre and Dantley were the opposite - they were MOSTLY post/triple-threat players, with SOME catch-and-shoot (and a fair amount of catch-and-go).
.

[AirBourne92]

funny how your username is 3ball but jordan had the most garbage and useless long range jumper of all time

ironic

[3ball]

funny how your username is 3ball but jordan had the most garbage and useless long range jumper of all time

ironic


Playoff Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 35 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG / 35.2% 3 PT
LEBRON: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG / 33.3% 3 PT


Finals Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 53% FG / 40.7% 3 PT
LEBRON: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG / 31.2% 3 PT


MJ purposefully didn't work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU&t=0m06s) on his 3 PT shot, even though his form was flawleess - his superior form is partly why he was the far better playoff and Finals 3-PT shooter... You know.. when it MATTERS.
.

[aj1987]

Playoff Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 35 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG / 35.2% 3 PT
LEBRON: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG / 33.3% 3 PT


Finals Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 53% FG / 40.7% 3 PT
LEBRON: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG / 31.2% 3 PT

MJ purposefully didn't work (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2CyJdCq-zU&t=0m06s) on his 3 PT shot, even though his form was flawleess - his superior form is partly why he was the far better playoff and Finals 3-PT shooter... You know.. when it MATTERS.
.


That insecurity... :roll: :roll: :roll:


Bringing up LeBron in a random conversation. LeBron got you shook, dude.

[3ball]

That insecurity...


Bringing up LeBron in a random conversation.


i'm responded to the other poster who said MJ couldn't shoot the long ball.

so i had to point out that he shoots it better than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals.. notice the bolding of the 3-point percentage.

but i'm guessing jordan's ridic PPG and assist averages shook you, and made you insecure about your guy Lebron, so you didn't even notice the bolded 3-point percentages.

[JohnFreeman]

Some of the purest bullshit I've seen all day.
:roll:

[NBAplayoffs2001]

i'm responded to the other poster who said MJ couldn't shoot the long ball.

so i had to point out that he shoots it better than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals.. notice the bolding of the 3-point percentage.

but i'm guessing jordan's ridic PPG and assist averages shook you, and made you insecure about your guy Lebron, so you didn't even notice the bolded 3-point percentages.

Jordan is God.

[aj1987]

i'm responded to the other poster who said MJ couldn't shoot the long ball.

so i had to point out that he shoots it better than Lebron in the playoffs and Finals.. notice the bolding of the 3-point percentage.

but i'm guessing jordan's ridic PPG and assist averages shook you, and made you insecure about your guy Lebron, so you didn't even notice the bolded 3-point percentages.
Why the **** do think I'm insecure. I have MJ as the GOAT and by a fair margin. You're the one who brought up LeBron out of the blue.

Admit it, dude. LeBron got you shook like you got Alzheimers.

[Chadwin]

Isolations have never been a winning strategy - .

Hakeem Olajuwon says hello.

[Papaya Petee]

Hey guys, did you know that Richard Hamilton slashed as much as Michael Jordan, Nique, and Drexler? He just wasn't as athletic so its deceiving?


:roll: :roll: You are so ****ing retarded it makes my head hurt. Did your brothers and sisters throw rocks at you and push you down the stairs as a kid?