Breaking down Jordan vs Lakers defense in 91' NBA finals

[Im Still Ballin]

GAME 1
http://share.gifyoutube.com/vMY9NY.gif
- Notice how Divac had to choose between doubling Michael or staying on his man... He was not allowed to hang back, shading the lane blocking MJ's dribble penetration to the hoop, due to the Illegal Defense Rules

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vZM77l.gif
- Jordan was able to isolate a mismatch freely... Even though he took a shot rather quickly you can notice the lack of lane protection and had he sized up his mismatch and waited a little longer he would have had an easy drive to the rack... The Illegal Defense Rules in full thrust here

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y0xYYz.gif
- Notice the reluctance of Magic who is positioned just slightly above the FT line... Illegal defense rules limits him from moving further down the court to help on Jordan's drive, whilst his man opponent is situated at the 3pt line... You can also notice the lack of attention of the big in the lane, prior to Jordan's drive he is focused on finding his man opponent to thus avoid an illegal defense violation... As he finds his man Jordan has already began his drive and he is too late to provide protection to thwart dribble penetration.. We must remember that the rules definitely impact players habits and tendencies when they move around the court.

[Im Still Ballin]

Reserved for GAME 2

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y7BWjn.gif
- Notice the confusion of the defense? Oh so careful not to get called for an illegal defense... There is obviously some confusion and bad defense by the Lakers but they as a team defense, have their hands tied behind their backs. The lack of freedom leaves a wide open bulls player under the hoop for Jordan to make an easy over the top pass. In modern times, the defensive bigs would ahve just switched whilst shading Jordan's potential dribble penetration. Noi confusion, defensive freedom, effective defense.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd4qG.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mP40zZ.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

Reserved for GAME 3

[andgar923]

Too easy

[Marchesk]

Reserved for FMVP

[warriorfan]

I'm Still Beta is the worst poster on the forum. He makes threads and gets bodied in them and then starts spamming new topics, he did this the other day when he was stanning Steve Nash.





Stop hiding from http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371556 and take your whipping like a good little Beta

[Trollsmasher]

OP destroying Jordanites this fine evening:applause:

[atljonesbro]

Jordan mythologists getting destroyed left and right. Time to pack it up.

[Im Still Ballin]

The funny thing is that I'm not saying that Jordan isn't great

Only that defenses were handicapped prior to 2001

[nba_55]

Im still Ballin is one of the greatest posters in ISH history :applause: :applause: :applause:

[AirFederer]

Reserved for OP IS A FAKKIT

[pauk]

3ball wont like this. :no:

[ClipperRevival]

Jesus Christ this board is sad. So much agenda driven threads.

[Hey Yo]

Notice the reluctance

Pretty much summed up Magic's career on the defensive end.

[TheMarkMadsen]

can't lie, these 3 gifs from one game change my entire opinion on a 31/7/11/3/1 finals series

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[G0ATbe]

:applause: repped.

[Genaro]

Sources can confirm 3ball is gathering gifs as we speak.

[Im Still Ballin]

Take note guys I will then do the same thing with one of Kobe's finals as he is the most comparable player to Jordan

It will be a good comparison of similar players playing different qualities of defenses.

Kobe fans; any suggestions for which finals series? I'm thinking 2009

[Hey Yo]

Take note guys I will then do the same thing with one of Kobe's finals as he is the most comparable player to Jordan

It will be a good comparison of similar players playing different qualities of defenses.

Kobe fans; any suggestions for which finals series? I'm thinking 2009
Well.......there's only 3 that could be used.

[3ball]

OP, are you serious with those GIFs?

The paint is packed in all them.

In all those GIF's, Jordan is taking a highly contested shot ON defenders - that doesn't happen nearly as often in today's game.

Today's spacing allows offensive players more room to beat defenders, so they don't have to finish over and through AWAITING defenders like previous eras.. it's a big difference.

You guys are dumb as **** - clapping for the OP for showing how packed the paint was in previous eras - that HELPS previous eras and HURTS today's era.. But keep cheering - you guys are delusional.
.

[Im Still Ballin]

3ball you miss the point and then some

The defense is slow and there is minimal lane protection

Prevention of a drive is much better than contesting a drive

[warriorfan]

OP, are you serious with those GIFs?

The paint is packed in all them.

In all those GIF's, Jordan is taking a highly contested shot ON defenders - that doesn't happen nearly as often in today's game.

Today's spacing allows offensive players more room to beat defenders, so they don't have to finish over and through AWAITING defenders like previous eras.. it's a big difference.

You guys are dumb as **** - clapping for the OP for showing how packed the paint was in previous eras - that HELPS previous eras and HURTS today's era.. But keep cheering - you guys are delusional.
.


Why do you think he sped up all the clips 2 to 3 times normal speed?


OP is a fraud :yaohappy:

[Im Still Ballin]

I'm using gifyoutube

It doesn't have a speed option as far as I am aware

[Jacks3]

Now imagine playing in a era where zone AND hand-checking was allowed.

It's crazy. No wonder league-average TS and ORTG saw a huge decline during those seasons.

Perimeter stars of the 99-04 era deserve more respect.

[Heavincent]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yxo5ab.gif

Notice Pierce and Garnett's positioning. Neither of them are guarding a man, and are forming a wall to prevent Kobe from driving to the rim in the first place. This is what good defenses of today do: force the offensive player into an area where they feel comfortable guarding him.

[3ball]

Prevention of a drive is much better than contesting a drive


You think today's game PREVENTS DRIVES?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that penetration accounts for more points than any other method in today's game.

Now let me put a cherry on this sundae: Not only does today's game allow dribble-penetration more than any other scoring method, but you've already conceded that once the penetrator is in the lane, there is no one there to contest or protect the rim!!!!!
.

[3ball]

So let me get this straight - you guys think the Vice President of Basketball Operations Stu Jackson is flat-out lying and pulling some shit out his ass when he says the rule changes worked to increase penetration (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html)?

And then, you guys have no problem completely ignoring the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) that show dribble-penetration is the most used scoring method in today's game?

So no matter what, defenses in today's spaced-out game are super-tough and harder to score on?... GTFO... You're delusional and/or unaware.
.

[3ball]

Al Jefferson would be a 2nd tier bigman in 1996 - no better than the 12th-best:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - unbelievable all-round talent)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And he'd probably be behind Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.


Of course, in addition to the proof that dribble-penetration is easier, we have proof that post scoring is easier as well:

We know that 1.00 PPP is considered excellent for ANY scoring method, yet that's what high-volume poster Al Jefferson gets in today's game on the post.. Furthermore, Jefferson and others would be ranked as 2nd tier big men in previous eras, yet they are league-leaders in post efficiency today (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200), and they're all at the universally-recognized standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP.

This elite post efficiency from 2nd tier bigs flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies... The only reason coaches don't use post-ups as much as before is because floor-spacing and the hand-check ban increased efficiencies on ball movement and dribble penetration, allowing these methods to SURPASS post-ups.. But Al Jefferson scoring 1.00 PPP on the post proves that post efficiencies THEMSELVES haven't diminished at all.

Also, if we are keeping it real, simple logic tells us that today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds rule force defenders to help from further distances on post players.. So even without the Al Jefferson proof, it makes sense that post PPP is higher today than it used to be.. After all, everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) is.

[The_Pharcyde]

These lebrons worshippers get worse by the day

The guy is great, but no need to try and tear down the goat cause your boy can't take the crown undoubtedly....

Sad lives, o well MJ is still the GOAT... They get so mad at that fact

[DonDadda59]

Take note guys I will then do the same thing with one of Kobe's finals as he is the most comparable player to Jordan

It will be a good comparison of similar players playing different qualities of defenses.

Kobe fans; any suggestions for which finals series? I'm thinking 2009

Post that one finals from Bron where the Spurs only defense on him was single coverage with Boris Diaw standing 5 feet away from him and letting him take as many jumpers as he wanted.

[Im Still Ballin]

Kobe's the most similar player to MJ so we will use him

Lebron is something we've never seen before so it's hard to put a comparison on him

Closest guess would be a mix of Magic Johnson and Karl Malone... Plus Jordan explosion

[andgar923]

Post that one finals from Bron where the Spurs only defense on him was single coverage with Boris Diaw standing 5 feet away from him and letting him take as many jumpers as he wanted.
Dat advanced modern defense tho!

[DonDadda59]

Dat advanced modern defense tho!

Can you imagine MJ being 'guarded' by Boris Diaw with 5 ft of space to operate in the finals? Muhphucka would average 60 PPG no joke. :oldlol:


Kobe's the most similar player to MJ so we will use him

Kobe was drafted in 1996, he played many of the same teams/defenses Jordan did. I personally remember him being a homeless man's Jamal Crawford during that era... but maybe you know something I don't :confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

GIFS are for kids.

I can make an entire vid off ONE game showing MJ facing tougher defense, than Bran in an entire series.

[Im Still Ballin]

Nostalgia

[DonDadda59]

Nostalgia


Chicago Is Zoning In

A farmer at heart, Phil Jackson was planting seeds again today. He kept referring to Seattle's tenacious defense as a "zone defense," perhaps angling early for some illegal defense calls.

"The one we like the best is the box and one on Michael," Jackson said.

Jackson also basically dared George Karl to stick Gary Payton on Michael Jordan, saying he genuinely believed the Sonics would not make that move. "I don't think Seattle is going to put Gary Payton on Michael Jordan," Jackson said. "We like that matchup because he'll get in foul trouble.

"In a zone defense like Seattle plays, they're just going to send him some way where they can double-team him all the time."

-'N.B.A. FINALS: NOTEBOOK;Jackson Can't Picture The Nets in His Future', NY Times
6/4/96

Now I know this isn't like the sort of Boris Diaw iso, 5 feet of space D that Bron has to deal with in the finals...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WpkXlrJxtw





Keep reaching kid, you'll accomplish what all the Bean stans before you never could :cheers:

[Asukal]

Nostalgia

Ahhhh I recall when the spurs dared leflop to shoot open jumpers..... Dat modern defensive scheme..... :applause:

[Im Still Ballin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

[DonDadda59]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHwMkn6tvnE

Jimmy Buckets played some great man D with little to no help :applause:

Not quite Boris Diaw in the finals level though, but still admirable.

Didn't now how many ridiculous and low IQ 3s Bron chucked that game/series. Thank you for pointing that out. :cheers:

[warriorfan]

DonDadda taking a huge shit on I'm Still Beta like always... :oldlol:


dude is a clown

[Paul George 24]

Reserved for GAME 2

http://share.gifyoutube.com/y7BWjn.gif
- Notice the confusion of the defense? Oh so careful not to get called for an illegal defense... There is obviously some confusion and bad defense by the Lakers but they as a team defense, have their hands tied behind their backs. The lack of freedom leaves a wide open bulls player under the hoop for Jordan to make an easy over the top pass. In modern times, the defensive bigs would ahve just switched whilst shading Jordan's potential dribble penetration. Noi confusion, defensive freedom, effective defense.

http://share.gifyoutube.com/KYd4qG.gif

http://share.gifyoutube.com/mP40zZ.gif

MUCH BETTER DEFENCE THAN LEBRON EVER FACE :applause:

[TheMan]

I'm Still Ballin' is a sad and lonely Azn kid, as clueless about hoops as he is about women and life in general :oldlol:

He seriously believes it's tougher to dribble drive today than before:roll:

Just finished watching Monta Ellis basically live in the paint versus the defending NBA champions but MJ would struggle in this era :rolleyes:

Oh and yeah, Boris Diaw on MJ with 5 feet of space = GOAT defensive scheme :oldlol:

OP is a fvcking moron, gets taken in his own threads on the regular, why we even bother with this idiot is beyond me.:facepalm

[Im Still Ballin]

These Jordanites are FURIOUS right now. Just imagine how furious they'll be when Lebron takes home another championship and FMVP in June

And I'm white, son.

[Blue&Orange]

Notice how Divac had to choose between doubling Michael or staying on his man...

:lol Divac didn't had time to choose, when he realized what Jordan was doing, was already throwing a dunk, what a retard. That gif have ZERO to do with any rule whatsoever.




Jordan was able to isolate a mismatch freely... Even though he took a shot rather quickly you can notice the lack of lane protection

Oh shit, isolate a mismatch freely? that really is something we don't see on daily basis in todays game :roll: LAck of lane protection, there were 3 guys in the paint, the other two, one was contesting Jordan shot, the other was late getting on defense. :roll:



Notice the reluctance of Magic who is positioned just slightly above the FT line...

I don't even know what to say about the third gif. :roll: Other than the speed and footwork of Jordan unparalleled in todays game, what the point of that gif? That shit happens repeatedly in todays game.
Coaches today take their centers out, and leave the paint defenseless because the are reluctant to leave someone open behind the 3pt line and this retard is talking about a player being reluctant to leave his man open? :roll:


This was the best you got from a full game, from a era were defense was supposed to suck? Thanks for proving the world otherwise. :roll: :roll: :roll:


The time this dumbfack wasted thinking he had the brainpower to achieve something.

[TheMan]

All those gifs show a packed paint, what the hell is the OP's point again :confusedshrug:

[TheMan]

These Jordanites are FURIOUS right now. Just imagine how furious they'll be when Lebron takes home another championship and FMVP in June

And I'm white, son.
:biggums:
Why should Jordan fans be "furious"? You're the one getting sonned in your own thread...as always :oldlol:

[Blue&Orange]

OP is a ****ing loser that have multiple accounts each with a fake hardon for some random player, so that when he sucks Lebron d1ck people think he is unbiased :roll:

How pathetic can you be?

[DonDadda59]

All those gifs show a packed paint, what the hell is the OP's point again :confusedshrug:

I don't know, something about Boris Diaw's advanced cushion defense holding Bron to 3/18 shooting in the finals (https://youtu.be/PE5auU7uvwU?t=8m)? :confusedshrug:

Break that down for us, OP. :roll:

[Im Still Ballin]

You clearly don't understand the rules

[Im Still Ballin]

Oh, the haters have arrived

[Im Still Ballin]

Newsflash

Jordan isn't God

Yahtzee

[warriorfan]

I'm shook as fucc




:roll: :roll: :roll:

[jstern]

I'm shook as fucc


:lebronamazed:

[TheMan]

I don't know, something about Boris Diaw's advanced cushion defense holding Bron to 3/18 shooting in the finals (https://youtu.be/PE5auU7uvwU?t=8m)? :confusedshrug:

Break that down for us, OP. :roll:
Yeah you pointed that out, can you just imagine the stats MJ would put up if the Spurs put fatboy Diaw on him and just dared MJ to shoot open jumpers all series long :biggums:

[The_Pharcyde]

Newsflash

Jordan isn't God

Yahtzee


Yeah Duh he isn't God, but he certainly is the best basketball player of all time

Yahtzee!!!

[DonDadda59]

Newsflash

Jordan isn't God

Yahtzee

:no:


"I didn't think anyone was capable of doing what Michael has done to us," marveled Celtics ace Larry Bird. "He is the most exciting, awesome player in the game today. I think it's just God disguised as Michael Jordan."

http://dangerouspyt.com/main/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/gif-baby-lawd-gif.gif


Yeah you pointed that out, can you just imagine the stats MJ would put up if the Spurs put fatboy Diaw on him and just dared MJ to shoot open jumpers all series long

http://info.autoworksmn.com/Portals/94047/images/disgusted-meme.png

^Pop during the series.

[Im Still Ballin]

Surprising how all the MJ fanboys rock up all at once...

Expect to see plenty more Illegal defense threads in the future

I'm exposing the 90's... Thread by thread

[ClipperRevival]

It's agenda driven threads like this which make this place less enjoyable to visit. Just knowing that the purpose of this thread is to unfairly degrade a player/era in order to boost another player/era is pretty sad.

[Im Still Ballin]

It's agenda driven threads like this which make this place less enjoyable to visit. Just knowing that the purpose of this thread is to unfairly degrade a player/era in order to boost another player/era is pretty sad.
Sounds like you should be at RealGM then

ISH is the big leagues sonny, best go back to the drawing board

[dubeta]

Im Still Ballin F*cking destroyed this thread, the haters ARE shook.

I'm a big time Jordan fan myself and even I am reconsidering MJ's GOAT status after reading this thread

[DonDadda59]

Surprising how all the MJ fanboys rock up all at once...

Expect to see plenty more Illegal defense threads in the future

I'm exposing the 90's... Thread by thread

I'll be there, chasing you off from your own thread as usual. Youse a bitch, always remember that.

http://i50.tinypic.com/d8b49.jpg

[Im Still Ballin]

You came in about 3 hours too late, again.

Try to catch the thread when it drops. 3ball tried and got denied like a San Antonio Lebron focused zone scheme.

[ClipperRevival]

Sounds like you should be at RealGM then

ISH is the big leagues sonny, best go back to the drawing board

Big board as in getting gifs here and there from situations that would support your agenda driven case? Hey, I could make a youtube video of all the air balls and bad plays Lebron has made and say this is "proof" that Lebron sucked. But anyone with a brain knows that's not the case. Just like your cute little gifs prove nothing. Stop trying so hard man. Enjoy the game we all love.

[ClipperRevival]

Im Still Ballin F*cking destroyed this thread, the haters ARE shook.

I'm a big time Jordan fan myself and even I am reconsidering MJ's GOAT status after reading this thread

:oldlol: You're the ultimate MJ hater. At least be honest. Why do you have to lie on a message board?

[Im Still Ballin]

Tl;dr

[dubeta]

:oldlol: You're the ultimate MJ hater. At least be honest. Why do you have to lie on a message board?

READ my user title, READ it bro

[NBAplayoffs2001]

READ my user title, READ it bro

Should read "1 of 9 alts"

[DonDadda59]

You came in about 3 hours too late, again.

Try to catch the thread when it drops. 3ball tried and got denied like a San Antonio Lebron focused zone scheme.

So he was LeBron and you were Diaw?

Nice :applause:

[sportjames23]

Reserved for FMVP


Ether

[ClipperRevival]

READ my user title, READ it bro

Lol. I've seen you bash MJ time and time again. Isn't the 1-9 MJ's record without Pip or something like that?

[TheMan]

It's agenda driven threads like this which make this place less enjoyable to visit. Just knowing that the purpose of this thread is to unfairly degrade a player/era in order to boost another player/era is pretty sad.
The OP is a retard doe, his threads always backfire. The only "people" who agree with him is dubeta and his alts along with the 4 or so other Bran stans...everyone else considers him a joke of a poster.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Damn....I'm a HUGE Jordan fan but even i can't argue against what OP posted. Too much facts, too much ether.

[Im Still Ballin]

I've got too many TL;DR's to hand out here

form a line children

[warriorfan]

Guys who wants to see my dick? Can I send you a picture? Am am am I a big daddy yet?




:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[scandisk_]

Oh FFS OP and 3ball = same dude. Don't fall for his antics :oldlol:

[Im Still Ballin]

warriorfan can you stop following me?

Your obsession with me is getting out of hand

[warriorfan]

warriorfan can you stop following me?

Your obsession with me is getting out of hand


ngga you getting cyber bullied just sit there and take it like the snitch you are, maybe afterwards you can get your self esteem up by sending some more dick pics to dudes :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Those defenses are so sophomoric. Do they even know what lane shading is? Heck, I don't think those medieval players even evolved yet.

Jeremy Lin could score 130 points on that defense. Blindfolded, with 1 hand tied behind his back, without shoes, and having gone 4 weeks without water.

[jongib369]

Those defenses are so sophomoric. Do they even know what lane shading is? Heck, I don't think those medieval players even evolved yet.

Jeremy Lin could score 130 points on that defense. Blindfolded, with 1 hand tied behind his back, without shoes, and having gone 4 weeks without water.

:lebronamazed: Imagine if he did :bowdown:

:roll:

[Trollsmasher]

You think today's game PREVENTS DRIVES?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

The NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that penetration accounts for more points than any other method in today's game.

Now let me put a cherry on this sundae: Not only does today's game allow dribble-penetration more than any other scoring method, but you've already conceded that once the penetrator is in the lane, there is no one there to contest or protect the rim!!!!!
.
35 ppg for the best team? That's down from 40 ppg for your average late 80's/early 90's team

[JohnFreeman]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[nba_55]

Im Still Ballin smashed Jordan stans so bad in this thread that I actually feel bad for them.:(


- FACT: 1-9 without Pippen

[sekachu]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yxo5ab.gif

Notice Pierce and Garnett's positioning. Neither of them are guarding a man, and are forming a wall to prevent Kobe from driving to the rim in the first place. This is what good defenses of today do: force the offensive player into an area where they feel comfortable guarding him.



Notice the defensive leak of celtic defense. Garnett left out odom in the middle. If that was MJ, he would passed to him and odom could either make a easy shot or pass it to gasol if gasol's defender guard him instead.
MJ's instant reflect is way beyond kobe.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Yeah, weak defense, which is why today's stars have NEVER had to make as many moves and counters on a single play to score a basket as this one by Jordan vs. LA in the '91 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVUXJ8Q7ehY#t=1m25s

Lebron never has to navigate around that many defenders because the paint is wide open and the spacing is FAR better.

[TheMan]

Yeah, weak defense, which is why today's stars have NEVER had to make as many moves and counters on a single play to score a basket as this one by Jordan vs. LA in the '91 Finals: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qVUXJ8Q7ehY#t=1m25s

Lebron never has to navigate around that many defenders because the paint is wide open and the spacing is FAR better.
:no: Jordan never went up against athletic defensive super freaks like Boris Diaw doe...

[Beastmode88]

:no: Jordan never went up against athletic defensive super freaks like Boris Diaw doe...

http://static-mb.minutebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/diaw-fail.jpg

dude looks like he's 50 with white hair. need some of that just for men shit. and he's locking down bran bran? :biggums:

[riseagainst]

OP getting destroyed in his own thread.

:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

http://static-mb.minutebuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/diaw-fail.jpg

dude looks like he's 50 with white hair. need some of that just for men shit. and he's locking down bran bran? :biggums:
For a moment, I thought that was Barack Obama