People bring up race too often.

[joe]

I was just reading an article on Grantland about Will Ferrell. In it, the writer keeps saying how Will Ferrell was representative of the ''Shrinking White Guy.'' This symbol of white males, goofy, tall, whatever else he imagines this group to be.

Before that, there was the Walking Dead (Spoilers from a couple of weeks ago incoming). --- When Noah died, people kept mentioning how the show keeps killing off its black characters. And whenever there is a long scene featuring only black characters, people bring up how strange or different it is.

It is cool and hip for white people to do this. They are always like, ''the black characters have so much depth.'' Or, ''the white father is X.'' Everything is brought up in terms of race so often. It really is annoying.

Racism, and race differences, are definitely things that have an impact on the world. But it is brought up way too much at this point. I feel like I hardly notice race very often, except when other people keep bringing it up. I was not thinking of Noah as a black character, only when reviewers and commentators kept referring to him as one.

I was doing some youth basketball coaching (humble brag) over the winter, and there was this older black guy who was also coaching. We talked and got along well, I was never like... oh, this is a black person that I am talking to. He was just another coach.

Anyway, I wish I had kept a little notepad of all the times that people have went out of their way to mention someones race. Does this annoy anyone else?

[DEADPOOLZOMBIE]

Thanks for the spoilers asshole.

[Fawker]

you have never been exposed to the animalistic ways of ******S

[You Cant Ban Me]

shut cha white ass up

[CavaliersFTW]

you have never been exposed to the animalistic ways of ******S
:biggums:

[HitandRun Reggie]

http://dewey.district65.net/teachers/alemanm/Class_Downloads/FOV1-0001BE34/FOV1-0001BE3A/boy-cried-wolf.gif

[Joyner82reload]

you have never been exposed to the animalistic ways of ******S
http://media.giphy.com/media/YPIrsRqqO7oB2/giphy.gif

[Bandito]

I feel the same way. Where I am from you don't really see that barrier between white and black so when I came to the states everybody use to do that. It was so weird at first.

[Dasher]

Eh, it's not brought up enough. People routinely are having their lives ruined and ended because of racism.

[Dresta]

It's the national neurosis. A combination of personal feelings of insecurity and a masochistic guilt-complex.

It doesn't help that the policies pursued over the past half century could only be divisive, and a stoke to racial tensions. Young black males found it easier to find employment when they faced official discrimination than now, when they have affirmative action programs. Talk about irony.

[CeltsGarlic]

www.creedthoughts.gov.www\creedthoughts

[Patrick Chewing]

One race. Human race.


http://i.imgur.com/r7CgwRN.gif

[The Iron Sheik]

It's the national neurosis. A combination of personal feelings of insecurity and a masochistic guilt-complex.

It doesn't help that the policies pursued over the past half century could only be divisive, and a stoke to racial tensions. Young black males found it easier to find employment when they faced official discrimination than now, when they have affirmative action programs. Talk about irony.

what policies? civil rights act of 1964?

and affirmative action is not meant to procure jobs. it's not meant to secure a place anywhere. it's not even meant to help just black people. it doesn't put minorities ahead of white people. no law does that.

[DeuceWallaces]

Eh, it's not brought up enough. People routinely are having their lives ruined and ended because of racism.

Exactly, it's the driver of so many economic, political, entertainment, educational, etc. issues; it's most likely under, and not over stated.

[BlakFrankWhite]

One word:insecurity

[Jailblazers7]

Lol its way worse when people pull the "why are people talking about race all the time, I don't see color" shtick

[Patrick Chewing]

Exactly, it's the driver of so many economic, political, entertainment, educational, etc. issues; it's most likely under, and not over stated.


We'll never stop talking about race with this mentality. There has never been a better time to be successful and live happily in this country than now. I will say that race relations have been made worse by this administration, but you cannot tell me that minorities do not have the best opportunity to succeed at this very moment in time.

The more we talk about race and single it out, the further and further we get from one another. Race discussions nowadays are purely political. People like you actually do more harm than good.

Let's say you were born black, are you telling me that you're automatically at a disadvantage because of your skin color? Opportunity and success is only exclusive to one race?

[GimmeThat]

Just wait until its accent and bi-lingual capability.

[Akrazotile]

Exactly, it's the driver of so many economic, political, entertainment, educational, etc. issues; it's most likely under, and not over stated.


:roll: this posturing clown hiding behind dasher's post for cred

[GimmeThat]

Eh, it's not brought up enough. People routinely are having their lives ruined and ended because of racism.

And I suppose you can say that those who work under a racist environment, can only be a fraction of its superior, instead of a fraction of where beholds the competitors.

[MEB2kDeez]

One race. Human race.


http://i.imgur.com/r7CgwRN.gif
:applause: and that is the truth..

[Raymone]

Lol its way worse when people pull the "why are people talking about race all the time, I don't see color" shtick

We see it. We just don't put such a huge emphasis on it to the point of obsession.

[ace23]

Let's say you were born black, are you telling me that you're automatically at a disadvantage because of your skin color?
Yes...

[Raymone]

Let's say you were born black, are you telling me that you're automatically at a disadvantage because of your skin color? Opportunity and success is only exclusive to one race?

I might say yes only if I were confused about which century we were in.

1815 or 1915.

[Patrick Chewing]

Yes...


Pure mythology. Do Latinos have more advantage? I have tan skin and am clearly not white, yet I have a great-paying job and was given certain grants in college due to my race to help me pay for college.

Just because Whites founded the nation and have more wealth due to inheritance does not mean that the rest of us are screwed.

[ace23]

Pure mythology. Do Latinos have more advantage? I have tan skin and am clearly not white, yet I have a great-paying job and was given certain grants in college due to my race to help me pay for college.

Just because Whites founded the nation and have more wealth due to inheritance does not mean that the rest of us are screwed.
Check it out:

The fact that you've succeeded does not mean racism does not exist.

Crazy right

[sdot_thadon]

It's because it's still an issue. It hasn't went away, the conversation has been changed but not resolved. It's just handled with the softer political correctness of the current society. I've seen major strides taken as a whole but for every step forward there's dumb shit that sets the whole movement back. Just take online idiots for example, the things people are willing to say when they aren't forced to stand before others and stand behind their words......

[RidonKs]

deucewallaces : "race matters"
patrick chewing : "race doesn't matter"
gimmethat : "as a matter of fact, every race starts from the same line, wherever they draw it"
me : "......"

[oarabbus]

OP is white

[DeuceWallaces]

Let's say you were born black, are you telling me that you're automatically at a disadvantage because of your skin color?

Yes and there are mountains of evidence supporting this statement. I know you're not much of a thinking man, but you could try to get your wheels turning every once in a while but you open your trash can of a mouth.

[Patrick Chewing]

Check it out:

The fact that you've succeeded does not mean racism does not exist.

Crazy right


That wasn't my question though. My question was if I was at a disadvantage born any other color but white?

I don't care if there are racists out there. There are 8 billion people in the world. All with their own opinions.

The fact that you and I have the opportunity to do whatever we want in 2015 speaks volumes from where our people have been.

[sdot_thadon]

That wasn't my question though. My question was if I was at a disadvantage born any other color but white?

I don't care if there are racists out there. There are 8 billion people in the world. All with their own opinions.

The fact that you and I have the opportunity to do whatever we want in 2015 speaks volumes from where our people have been.
Again the answer is yes, epescially in this country. Can't speak for many other parts of the world but I have told by several other nationalities that this is the case.

[joe]

I don't identify with my race, I identify more with my age, or my beliefs. I am not walking in life thinking I am part of some ''shrinking white man'' demographic, or part of some white group. That is what I mean. Read the Grantland article in my OP, you will see what I am talking about. It is annoying.

When Michonne, Tyreese, and Noah talk on Walking Dead, I am not like wow.... 3 black characters. This is so interesting, so awesome, etc. Michonne is not a black person, she is a knife wielding badass who has a sensitive side that she hides. Tyreese is a thoughtful, anti violent person who can also snap at times. Noah is smart, young, optimistic, good hearted. They are not just the color of their skin, and people always boil it down like that in reviews or in conversation. ''Walking Dead kills off yet another of its black characters.'' He is just another character that died, stop it. It is just as sad as any other character dying, why are we talking about him being black. It is unnecessary.

Stop bringing up race all the time over these small little matters. It is pointless, annoying, stupid.

When you have a police station that kills X amount of black people per year and there might be institutional racism, that's different. I am not saying racism doesn't exist, or even that I am immune to grouping people up. But these constant little, ''you represent the mid-20s white male,'' it is dumb and not necessary. Race is a huge deal in some ways, but because of that, people make it a huge deal in ALL ways. Race is a big deal when you have a genocide or institutional racism or a culture of stereotyping. But it isn't a big ****ing deal when Will Ferrell makes a movie or Noah dies two weeks after Tyreese.

[Akrazotile]

Yes and there are mountains of evidence supporting this statement. I know you're not much of a thinking man, but you could try to get your wheels turning every once in a while but you open your trash can of a mouth.


You are confusing being born into the average black family with simply having black skin.

One is currently a disadvantage, the other is not.


Anyhow everyone has varying degrees of innate prejudice, just like any other personality type. Some people are naturally flamboyant, some people are naturally shy, some people are naturally outdoorsy, some people are indoorsy, some talk a lot, some like men, some like women, and some are more naturally xenophobic than others. That's simply a biological reality that isnt gonna change.

The question is why are you so obsessed with racial sensitivity? I'm not talking about simply supporting civil rights or anything, I'm talking about the obsession with PC minutiae. Is it just generic filler since you have zero to say, ever, and simply use it as some kind of offering to make you appear intellectual? You hide behind the race card cause you have nothin else bro? Not funny, not athletic, not a handsome man, not a real intellect, look like a woman, troll the forest like a fairy n shit? The race card is the only thing you can muster enough minimal testosterone to be aggressive and confident about? You hide behind that shit constantly. And considering youre white, theres no actual tangible social/biological advantage for you to gain by arguing the black cause, so it must be like emotional, right?

Im genuinely curious.

[RidonKs]

You are confusing being born into the average black family with simply having black skin.

One is currently a disadvantage, the other is not.
:wtf:


Today i learned that DeuceWallace wasnt a white Anglo protestant hillbilly from the bible belt. Mind blown.
:biggums:


in other news, there are no white faced emoticons. somebody needs to create a thread on this subject so that we can share a discussion with one another on what this means to our multicultural online community...

[Jailblazers7]

I don't identify with my race, I identify more with my age, or my beliefs. I am not walking in life thinking I am part of some ''shrinking white man'' demographic, or part of some white group. That is what I mean. Read the Grantland article in my OP, you will see what I am talking about. It is annoying.

When Michonne, Tyreese, and Noah talk on Walking Dead, I am not like wow.... 3 black characters. This is so interesting, so awesome, etc. Michonne is not a black person, she is a knife wielding badass who has a sensitive side that she hides. Tyreese is a thoughtful, anti violent person who can also snap at times. Noah is smart, young, optimistic, good hearted. They are not just the color of their skin, and people always boil it down like that in reviews or in conversation. ''Walking Dead kills off yet another of its black characters.'' He is just another character that died, stop it. It is just as sad as any other character dying, why are we talking about him being black. It is unnecessary.

Stop bringing up race all the time over these small little matters. It is pointless, annoying, stupid.

When you have a police station that kills X amount of black people per year and there might be institutional racism, that's different. I am not saying racism doesn't exist, or even that I am immune to grouping people up. But these constant little, ''you represent the mid-20s white male,'' it is dumb and not necessary. Race is a huge deal in some ways, but because of that, people make it a huge deal in ALL ways. Race is a big deal when you have a genocide or institutional racism or a culture of stereotyping. But it isn't a big ****ing deal when Will Ferrell makes a movie or Noah dies two weeks after Tyreese.

Part of the reason the bolded is true is because whites are stereotyped like other races in America. For example, nobody really thinks "wow you are so well-spoken" when they meet an average white guy. Other races are burden with a lot of preconceived notions that you (and me) have no idea about because we are white.

And honestly, I think you are being crazy oversensitive. You are annoyed by a movie/tv critic reading between the lines and applying cultural commentary to their review of a movie? That's kind of their job dude.

btw there is no link to that Grantland article you mentioned in the OP. I read it earlier but just saying.

[Siemens]

:facepalm

[ace23]

That wasn't my question though. My question was if I was at a disadvantage born any other color but white?
Yes, due to racism.

[Raymone]

Individual racism still exists in some places in America, but systemic/institutional racism in the 21st century is basically a myth.

[Patrick Chewing]

Yes, due to racism.


How is racism preventing you from being successful?

[ace23]

Individual racism still exists in some places in America, but systemic/institutional racism in the 21st century is basically a myth.
:roll:

[oarabbus]

Individual racism still exists in some places in America, but systemic/institutional racism in the 21st century is basically a myth.


That's what's great about racism and racists. Whenever someone is racist, it's always the one bad apple. Systemic racism always has plausible deniability. Even when it's the entire Ferguson PD with racism problems, it's somehow never institutional. (for the record I've stated many times how asinine the Ferguson riots were)

[Siemens]

That's what's great about racism and racists. Whenever someone is racist, it's always the one bad apple. Systemic racism always has plausible deniability. Even when it's the entire Ferguson PD with racism problems, it's somehow never institutional. (for the record I've stated many times how asinine the Ferguson riots were)

:applause:

[ace23]

How is racism preventing you from being successful?
Go read up a bit on racism. You're looking severely retarded.

Peace.

[Raymone]

Go read up a bit on racism. You're looking severely retarded.

Peace.

At least tell him which history book to check out.

[Akrazotile]

That's what's great about racism and racists. Whenever someone is racist, it's always the one bad apple. Systemic racism always has plausible deniability. Even when it's the entire Ferguson PD with racism problems, it's somehow never institutional. (for the record I've stated many times how asinine the Ferguson riots were)


Discrimination and prejudice are a part of life. You think whites don't suffer from preconception in certain types of athletics and music? Asians don't deal with certain dating preconceptions based on historic stereotypes? Arabs going through the airport? Blacks are no different, people inherently make presumptions based on history and experience. That's a biological reality, not some right wing construction.

We all live in the same society, so we all have an awareness of the historical patterns of groups. Some people are overt and outspoken about them, others try to hide them or consciously ignore them, but for someone like deucewallace or ridonks to PRETEND they don't make these judgements is nothing but pretentious posturing hogwash. They do. Everyone does. Spike Lee and Ice Cube do. Sonia Sotomayor does. Donald Sterling does. Dog the Bounty Hunter does.

Racism is a belief in racial superiority. Institutional racism would be the federal government actively pigeonholing people into certain social classes based on race. That's institutional racism. Cops in Ferguson making snap judgements or just being assholes to people based on internal prejudice is not institutional racism. Apartheid is institutional racism. A bully cop giving out lots of jaywalking tickets to blacks isn't institutional racism. There are no laws or sanctioned guidelines instructing them to do so, it is simply individuals acting on their prejudices.

The reality is, some people are bullies. There are whites who mock blacks, blacks who mock whites, japs who mock viets, gays who mock mexicans, mexicans who mock gays, women who mock men, etc. Every group has xenophobes. EVERY group.

There's no "solution" to making all black people immune from prejudice, criticism, and stereotypes. If they think they're singled out, if they think it's holding them back, if they think the government sanctions it, then whomever feels that way needs to just walk away and go elsewhere because it's not going to change anytime soon. White people are a numerical majority and have a historical economic advantage. That's a simple reality nobody can control. If you feel that handicaps you, try your luck elsewhere.

The only reason it gets such heavy play is because blacks are such a historic "underdog" and whites are such a historic "favorite." Just like nobody cares about the Spurs vs Pistons, but if you put a juggernaut against a cinderella, you get a huge viewership, because the juggernaut has a huge fanbase, and everyone else will watch to root for the Cinderella.

I got my own life to live and I can't worry about every time a white person is caught on a hidden cell phone camera saying the word ******. Deuce wants to spend his energy campaigning against that, that's his deal, because he has nothing else. No other ambitions, abilities, and so forth. He clings to the idea of showing everyone he's "sensitive social justice guy" because he doesn't fit in any other way, and he's desperate for some social placement like dat. I care about my friends and family, including the gay people in my family and my friends who are racial minorities. But the people in Ferguson gotta do their own thing. If they don't like what the cops are doing, elect different people, hold boycotts, put more of your own people into the force. There are options, but most people in America don't vote, they don't organize, they don't communicate, they just complain. And if they have a good excuse to riot like retards, they'll do that, too. I can't waste my time trying to fight their battles just because they're black and I'm supposed to want to be some kind of hero for them. **** that. I got 1 life to live and I'm already 30. Clock's ticking. Ferguson, your'e on your own.

[DeuceWallaces]

You're pretty wrapped up in whatever I have to say and what I'm doing.

[Akrazotile]

You're pretty wrapped up in whatever I have to say and what I'm doing.


Youre just a good example to point to of someone who takes positions based on personal agenda, soapboxing, posturing etc instead of logic and analysis.

It's important to recognize what really motivates someone like you, so that people dont make the mistake of taking you seriously.

[Patrick Chewing]

Go read up a bit on racism. You're looking severely retarded.

Peace.


So there's racists all around you just keeping you down huh?


So pathetic. Get off your ass and get a job. You're looking severely lazy.

[Nanners]

Youre just a good example to point to of someone who takes positions based on personal agenda, soapboxing, posturing etc instead of logic and analysis.

It's important to recognize what really motivates someone like you, so that people dont make the mistake of taking you seriously.

funny, this is pretty much a flawless description of yourself. :oldlol:

[Akrazotile]

funny, this is pretty much a flawless description of yourself. :oldlol:


Oh shit, good one man! Like, hes rubber and Im glue! I get it!

So much egg on my face right now, damn. Soul crushed to the max.

[Nanners]

Oh shit, good one man! Like, hes rubber and Im glue! I get it!

So much egg on my face right now, damn. Soul crushed to the max.

your posts in this thread are pretty much the textbook definition of "soapboxing" :oldlol:

deuce might be a forest troll and he might look like a tranny, but he is certainly not a soapboxer. thats you.

[Akrazotile]

your posts in this thread are pretty much the textbook definition of "soapboxing" :oldlol:

deuce might be a forest troll and he might look like a tranny, but he is certainly not a soapboxer. thats you.



:biggums:


bro there aint no 'might' about it :biggums:

[longtime lurker]

I was just reading an article on Grantland about Will Ferrell. In it, the writer keeps saying how Will Ferrell was representative of the ''Shrinking White Guy.'' This symbol of white males, goofy, tall, whatever else he imagines this group to be.

Before that, there was the Walking Dead (Spoilers from a couple of weeks ago incoming). --- When Noah died, people kept mentioning how the show keeps killing off its black characters. And whenever there is a long scene featuring only black characters, people bring up how strange or different it is.

It is cool and hip for white people to do this. They are always like, ''the black characters have so much depth.'' Or, ''the white father is X.'' Everything is brought up in terms of race so often. It really is annoying.

Racism, and race differences, are definitely things that have an impact on the world. But it is brought up way too much at this point. I feel like I hardly notice race very often, except when other people keep bringing it up. I was not thinking of Noah as a black character, only when reviewers and commentators kept referring to him as one.

I was doing some youth basketball coaching (humble brag) over the winter, and there was this older black guy who was also coaching. We talked and got along well, I was never like... oh, this is a black person that I am talking to. He was just another coach.

Anyway, I wish I had kept a little notepad of all the times that people have went out of their way to mention someones race. Does this annoy anyone else?


There's nothing wrong with acknowledging race. The whole "I don't see color" act is the most bullshit idea ever. Nothing wrong with acknowledging that walking dead has 4 black characters and thinking it's kind of cool for a major TV show and nothing wrong with pointing out that they're quick to kill off said characters(a common TV trope). Its great that you not seeing race keeps you from ever having to acknowledge the uglier truth of institutional racism. But that's not reality.

[Graviton]

I watched "The Lazarus Effect" few weeks ago and halfway through the movie told my friends "I bet the black guy dies first". The other potential "victims" were 2 white guys and a white woman, but the poor black dude was the first one to die.

And I also recall back in Alien vs Predator 2, when the mutant was chasing 4 jocks (3 white, 1 black). All of them jumped in the pool to get away and while they were swimming to the other side I thought to myself "There is a 75% chance the one that doesn't make it is white". But what do you know the black guy aka the 25% is the one that ends up dying while the rest escape. :lol

[Akrazotile]

I'm
I watched "The Lazarus Effect" few weeks ago and halfway through the movie told my friends "I bet the black guy dies first". The other potential "victims" were 2 white guys and a white woman, but the poor black dude was the first one to die.

And I also recall back in Alien vs Predator 2, when the mutant was chasing 4 jocks (3 white, 1 black). All of them jumped in the pool to get away and while they were swimming to the other side I thought to myself "There is a 75% chance the one that doesn't make it is white". But what do you know the black guy aka the 25% is the one that ends up dying while the rest escape. :lol


Statistically black folks have shorter average lifespans than whites.

Sounds like a simple case of art imitates life, no? Horror movies just trying to be realistic :confusedshrug:

[Graviton]

I'm


Statistically black folks have shorter average lifespans than whites.

Sounds like a simple case of art imitates life, no? :confusedshrug:
And they are also terrible swimmers so it could explain the 2nd example.

I remember back in the Olympics when Michael Phelps was going for the perfect record, in the men's team competition the 2 white guys went in and got a lead, the black guy was 3rd and lost the lead all by himself but luckily the last white guy was 4th and he single handedly brought that shit back and won the gold. And that wasn't a movie, that was reality. :lol

[joe]

And they are also terrible swimmers so it could explain the 2nd example.

I remember back in the Olympics when Michael Phelps was going for the perfect record, in the men's team competition the 2 white guys went in and got a lead, the black guy was 3rd and lost the lead all by himself but luckily the last white guy was 4th and he single handedly brought that shit back and won the gold. And that wasn't a movie, that was reality. :lol

How about that Army commercial a while back with the black guy on the diving board, talking about how he used to not be able to swim. lol. I notice race in situations like that like everyone else. But I think people go out of their way to bring it up to make up for the awkwardness.

[Bandito]

Discrimination and prejudice are a part of life. You think whites don't suffer from preconception in certain types of athletics and music? Asians don't deal with certain dating preconceptions based on historic stereotypes? Arabs going through the airport? Blacks are no different, people inherently make presumptions based on history and experience. That's a biological reality, not some right wing construction.

We all live in the same society, so we all have an awareness of the historical patterns of groups. Some people are overt and outspoken about them, others try to hide them or consciously ignore them, but for someone like deucewallace or ridonks to PRETEND they don't make these judgements is nothing but pretentious posturing hogwash. They do. Everyone does. Spike Lee and Ice Cube do. Sonia Sotomayor does. Donald Sterling does. Dog the Bounty Hunter does.

Racism is a belief in racial superiority. Institutional racism would be the federal government actively pigeonholing people into certain social classes based on race. That's institutional racism. Cops in Ferguson making snap judgements or just being assholes to people based on internal prejudice is not institutional racism. Apartheid is institutional racism. A bully cop giving out lots of jaywalking tickets to blacks isn't institutional racism. There are no laws or sanctioned guidelines instructing them to do so, it is simply individuals acting on their prejudices.

The reality is, some people are bullies. There are whites who mock blacks, blacks who mock whites, japs who mock viets, gays who mock mexicans, mexicans who mock gays, women who mock men, etc. Every group has xenophobes. EVERY group.

There's no "solution" to making all black people immune from prejudice, criticism, and stereotypes. If they think they're singled out, if they think it's holding them back, if they think the government sanctions it, then whomever feels that way needs to just walk away and go elsewhere because it's not going to change anytime soon. White people are a numerical majority and have a historical economic advantage. That's a simple reality nobody can control. If you feel that handicaps you, try your luck elsewhere.

The only reason it gets such heavy play is because blacks are such a historic "underdog" and whites are such a historic "favorite." Just like nobody cares about the Spurs vs Pistons, but if you put a juggernaut against a cinderella, you get a huge viewership, because the juggernaut has a huge fanbase, and everyone else will watch to root for the Cinderella.

I got my own life to live and I can't worry about every time a white person is caught on a hidden cell phone camera saying the word ******. Deuce wants to spend his energy campaigning against that, that's his deal, because he has nothing else. No other ambitions, abilities, and so forth. He clings to the idea of showing everyone he's "sensitive social justice guy" because he doesn't fit in any other way, and he's desperate for some social placement like dat. I care about my friends and family, including the gay people in my family and my friends who are racial minorities. But the people in Ferguson gotta do their own thing. If they don't like what the cops are doing, elect different people, hold boycotts, put more of your own people into the force. There are options, but most people in America don't vote, they don't organize, they don't communicate, they just complain. And if they have a good excuse to riot like retards, they'll do that, too. I can't waste my time trying to fight their battles just because they're black and I'm supposed to want to be some kind of hero for them. **** that. I got 1 life to live and I'm already 30. Clock's ticking. Ferguson, your'e on your own.
And yet you spend posting on Ish 40 times a day every night while drinking your youth away.

[Dresta]

Does anyone really for a second think racism doesn't exist? That is not the question here. It is an irrelevancy, and quite simply, an utterly mindless utopianism to even think racism could ever be 'eradicated' - you might as well try to empty the Pacific Ocean with a teaspoon. The question is why blacks are such poor achievers relative to everyone else, and that actually, historically, discrimination in no way necessitates poverty or socio-economic instability. The Jews are a mighty fine example: a people that has been persecuted all throughout history, which has in all places faced active and intensive discrimination, only to exceed the prosperity of the natives in almost every place they've been to (even to the point where the natives blame them for all their problems!).

It begs the question of why and how they were doing better economically when they faced far more racism and far greater discrimination, than now. Also, if the problem were simply racism, then West Indian immigrants would not, for a long time, have been earning more than the average white native. There are other - more important - factors at play here.

Start admitting that culture, heritage, and family stability - these things matter more for moving up the socio-economic ladder, and they always have. I am not exactly much of a family values man myself, but it is pure frivolity to pretend these things don't give people a better chance in life. I know, when people want to be selfish, and want to justify their own selfishness, they deny reality and that's what people who deny the importance of these things are doing - justifying their own behaviours to themselves.


what policies? civil rights act of 1964?

and affirmative action is not meant to procure jobs. it's not meant to secure a place anywhere. it's not even meant to help just black people. it doesn't put minorities ahead of white people. no law does that.
:roll: - no. What policies? Can you possibly be serious? The USA has been utterly transformed by Federal policies since the sixties - where have you been?

Johnson's incredible failure in his 'war on poverty' shows many of the problems. Since this time, the number of out of wedlock births among blacks has tripled from less than a quarter, to almost 3 quarters (it doubled simply from 1965 to 1975). The welfare state has incentivised single parenthood, and as a consequence done great harm to marriage, and to the possibility of forming cohesive and stable families in black communities. Spending on welfare here more than doubled in a mere decade (between early 60s and early 70s), and you can see the results of this expansion clear as day.

The minimum wage law has resulted in masses of unemployed young black men, who, instead of working for a low wage, developing skills, and making themselves more employable, can't find work, and end up getting involved in the criminality that is incentivised by the government (drug dealing, gangsterism, a product of the government-mandated 'drug war'). These help to produces environments so destructive to learning of all kinds that even those who try to help themselves, are frequently pulled back down by their acquaintances.

No racial group would flourish under such poor conditions for personal development. As a whole, blacks are less independent than they were in the Jim Crow era, and that is really sad, though a direct consequence of treating them like children, and basing federal policy on personal pity for them (as LBJ did to blacks; and who likes to be pitied, really? Perhaps a lot of black criminality is a backlash against a society that constantly pities and patronises black people - i would not be surprised if this has a subconscious effect).

[Dresta]

Yes and there are mountains of evidence supporting this statement. I know you're not much of a thinking man, but you could try to get your wheels turning every once in a while but you open your trash can of a mouth.
No there isn't. There is mountain of evidence suggesting that other factors are at play here, but keep ignoring them to plug the solution-less and only divisive 'race agenda.'

There are many examples, all over the world and throughout history, which show that even official discrimination doesn't prevent the economic affluence of a minority group, provided it brings with it some good cultural mores.

[DeuceWallaces]

No there isn't. There is mountain of evidence suggesting that other factors are at play here, but keep ignoring them to plug the solution-less and only divisive 'race agenda.'

There are many examples, all over the world and throughout history, which show that even official discrimination doesn't prevent the economic affluence of a minority group, provided it brings with it some good cultural mores.

Yes, there are. Hundreds of studies, if not thousands. Go pick up a copy of Kerbo's Social Strat. and Inequ. or any other standard Urban Soc textbook. No one's saying it's the only factor, but you're a moron if you can't see that it's a major factor when even properly controlled for with poverty and other indicators.

[Dresta]

Yes, there are. Hundreds of studies, if not thousands. Go pick up a copy of Kerbo's Social Strat. and Inequ. or any other standard Urban Soc textbook. No one's saying it's the only factor, but you're a moron if you can't see that it's a major factor when even properly controlled for with poverty and other indicators.
'properly controlled for..' - oh yeah, and how is that done, objectively? In a discipline with no constants you somehow think a simple regression analysis is going to bring you to the truth of the matter? Oh, you poor, literal-minded fool, spinning in a blind faith in statistics you don't even understand :roll: .

You actually think it's possible to separate these interlinked and interlocking factors? The most undeniable correlation lies between the break-up of black families and black poverty, also the increase in welfare and the minimum wage and increased youth black unemployment. Discrimination and poverty, on the other hand, is not even correlated.

Again, West Indian immigrants earned more than your average white American at about the same time Kerbo wrote his book in sociology (sociology? :oldlol: - what a joke it is that you think these clowns have any credibility whatsoever, sociology is one of the fluffiest and flakiest disciplines around). Way to deny the facts, way to get caught up in statistical mumbo-jumbo that doesn't come close to representing reality. If you actually knew any mathematicians who work with statistics, you would know, that when presenting things to the general public, it is possible to make them say whatever you want.

(As one, who worked on game theory for 30+ years told me: 'give me the data, tell me what you want it to show, and i'll make it look that way'). The methodology of the social sciences is wholly arbitrary, and cannot lead to any kind of useful knowledge or understanding. Political Science and Sociology, for the most part, use completely outdated (and repudiated) statistical methods they've taken from economics, so crude that an undergrad econ student could see right through them, even.

Try to think for yourself for once, look around the world, and see the myriad of examples of discriminated against minorities flourishing more than the natives, and you will see it has everything to do with their close-knit cultures, the emphasis they place on learning, etc. Whining about 'racism' and 'discrimination' never got anyone anywhere; the minorities that were successful succeeded in spite of discrimination, not because it didn't exist.

[Droid101]

I've never seen so many words that say so little.

Dresta is the master of posting nothing. :lol

[Dresta]

Incredible, that someone who never posts anything except for snide insults and some posturing moral-denunciations, is actually complaining that a post filled with information 'says nothing' - no, Driod, dear chap, it only says 'nothing' to you because your ears are not open. You're the equivalent of a child holding his hands over his ears and singing 'lalalalala i can't hear you tralala'

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Unfortunately idiots are comfortable with being simple-minded and myopic.

To be specific, goofy posters on ISH that believe the color of your skin has any merit on your personality and intelligence.

[Budadiiii]

Dresta supplying insane amounts of rat poison in this thread.

[robert de niro]

I've never seen so many words that say so little.

Dresta is the master of posting nothing. :lol
you might agree or disagree but acting like his posts say nothing... :rolleyes:

[DeuceWallaces]

'properly controlled for..' - oh yeah, and how is that done, objectively? In a discipline with no constants you somehow think a simple regression analysis is going to bring you to the truth of the matter? Oh, you poor, literal-minded fool, spinning in a blind faith in statistics you don't even understand :roll: .

You actually think it's possible to separate these interlinked and interlocking factors? The most undeniable correlation lies between the break-up of black families and black poverty, also the increase in welfare and the minimum wage and increased youth black unemployment. Discrimination and poverty, on the other hand, is not even correlated.

Again, West Indian immigrants earned more than your average white American at about the same time Kerbo wrote his book in sociology (sociology? :oldlol: - what a joke it is that you think these clowns have any credibility whatsoever, sociology is one of the fluffiest and flakiest disciplines around). Way to deny the facts, way to get caught up in statistical mumbo-jumbo that doesn't come close to representing reality. If you actually knew any mathematicians who work with statistics, you would know, that when presenting things to the general public, it is possible to make them say whatever you want.

(As one, who worked on game theory for 30+ years told me: 'give me the data, tell me what you want it to show, and i'll make it look that way'). The methodology of the social sciences is wholly arbitrary, and cannot lead to any kind of useful knowledge or understanding. Political Science and Sociology, for the most part, use completely outdated (and repudiated) statistical methods they've taken from economics, so crude that an undergrad econ student could see right through them, even.

Try to think for yourself for once, look around the world, and see the myriad of examples of discriminated against minorities flourishing more than the natives, and you will see it has everything to do with their close-knit cultures, the emphasis they place on learning, etc. Whining about 'racism' and 'discrimination' never got anyone anywhere; the minorities that were successful succeeded in spite of discrimination, not because it didn't exist.

It seems as though you like to post under the guise of some scientific mind, but it's clear you're quite inept if you don't understand simple experimental designs and analysis that can easily control for covariates such as income while assessing the impacts of race on economic or social achievement.

Seriously, I tried to give your verbose ramblings the benefit of the doubt in the past, but it's clear you really don't understand science with statements like this.

You really are a dumbass if you truly believe that.

[The Iron Sheik]

Does anyone really for a second think racism doesn't exist?

according to many white people, yes. racism doesn't exist anymore in 2015


Johnson's incredible failure in his 'war on poverty' shows many of the problems. Since this time, the number of out of wedlock births among blacks has tripled from less than a quarter, to almost 3 quarters (it doubled simply from 1965 to 1975). The welfare state has incentivised single parenthood, and as a consequence done great harm to marriage, and to the possibility of forming cohesive and stable families in black communities. Spending on welfare here more than doubled in a mere decade (between early 60s and early 70s), and you can see the results of this expansion clear as day.

yes, people purposely have kids so they can get an extra check a month that won't cover all of the expenses that come with children. the money you get from welfare or food stamps isn't shit. it's not enough to completely live off of by itself, and it's not meant to be, which is why you can't get things like food stamps without first being employed.

government welfare didn't encourage people to just start f*cking more. you aren't this stupid


The minimum wage law has resulted in masses of unemployed young black men, who, instead of working for a low wage, developing skills, and making themselves more employable, can't find work, and end up getting involved in the criminality that is incentivised by the government (drug dealing, gangsterism, a product of the government-mandated 'drug war'). These help to produces environments so destructive to learning of all kinds that even those who try to help themselves, are frequently pulled back down by their acquaintances.

more bullshit. i find it hilarious how people who spend no time around black people outside of the ones they interact with online, somehow have so much insight as to how black people think. it's nothing but bullshit conjured from your own racist preconceived notions about black people. you act like black dudes are getting jumped for trying to go to school, and are constantly ridiculed for getting good grades or some shit :oldlol: it's not other black people keeping black people in poor neighborhoods. it's the problem of being poor in and of itself. poverty isn't something that one can just wake up and say "i'm done with this". it's a process. and it's a process that isn't available to everybody.


No racial group would flourish under such poor conditions for personal development. As a whole, blacks are less independent than they were in the Jim Crow era, and that is really sad, though a direct consequence of treating them like children, and basing federal policy on personal pity for them (as LBJ did to blacks; and who likes to be pitied, really? Perhaps a lot of black criminality is a backlash against a society that constantly pities and patronises black people - i would not be surprised if this has a subconscious effect).

let me ask you something...if black people were getting so much handed to them, getting treated so much better by the government, why are they still so far behind as you so eloquently described earlier? i wasn't aware that there were any laws mandating that black people get shit that other people don't.

[joe]

let me ask you something...if black people were getting so much handed to them, getting treated so much better by the government, why are they still so far behind as you so eloquently described earlier? i wasn't aware that there were any laws mandating that black people get shit that other people don't.

The argument is that the government is actively hurting black people (and poor people), even though their laws are ostensibly trying to help. Minimum wage is an example of this. In theory, the government creates a minimum wage with the idea of helping lower-tier employees earn a livable wage. Companies are not paying these people enough money to live on, so the government steps in and creates a ''floor,'' under which no employee can be paid.

This plan backfires, however. Instead of simply paying lower-skilled employees higher wages, companies instead CUT jobs that are not worth the cost of a minimum wage.

In the large scale economy, the minimum wage law has destroyed an unknowable amount of jobs. A noticeable example is gas station clerks. Back in the day, gas stations would hire people to pump your gas for you. You would pull up, hand the guy your money, and never have to step out of your car. Today, that job is almost completely gone- thanks to the minimum wage laws. For the owner of a gas station, the cost of hiring an employee to pump gas is too high; it outweighs the benefits in customer convenience and, of course, profit margins.

So, when you talk about black people not having access to the process of leaving poverty, I would respond that that many black teens are not able to enter the labor force because of these minimum wage laws. And that sets them back as they are filling out resumes later in life. However, this is almost all teenagers; it is increasingly more difficult for young and unskilled workers to get hired, no matter what color they are. This is all related to the government influence in the economy, in this case, minimum wage.

The same argument applies to many things the government does. Even with the best of intentions, government interference tends to backfire. Not always; there are examples of government interference having an objectively positive effect. But as a rule, that is the case.

For statistics to back this up, you can see that black peoples rate of employment was rising faster BEFORE the passing of the civil rights act than after. And that the price of college was catastrophically lower before government was handing out student loans. And that the price of a doctor visit was cheaper before government got involved. And, ultimately, that you could support a whole family on ONE income before the government screwed up the whole damn economy. And now, two working people can hardly get by.

[Droid101]

The greatest example is gas station clerks. Back in the day, gas stations would hire people to pump your gas for you. Today, that job is almost completely gone. For the owner of a gas station, the cost of hiring a minimum wage employee to pump gas outweighs the benefits in customer convenience and, of course, profit margins.

False. Oregon gas stations are required by state law to have someone there to man the pumps. They're not going out of business.

Wonder why that is? I guess Orgeon businesses are just better run than every other business in the country? Or maybe the owners don't need to up their profits 3% that quarter and ****ing hire someone.

[joe]

False. Oregon gas stations are required by state law to have someone there to man the pumps. They're not going out of business.

Wonder why that is? I guess Orgeon businesses are just better run than every other business in the country? Or maybe the owners don't need to up their profits 3% that quarter and ****ing hire someone.

New Jersey also has employees pump your gas, which is why I wrote that this job is mostly gone. I am very careful with my words, you should be a more careful reader.


And the fact that government is forcing gas stations to do that should tell you something.

What it tells me, is that gas stations are losing money on these employees. Otherwise, they would be hiring them themselves. In your world, you just paint them as evil; they are simply being greedy to keep that extra 3% of profit. But what you don't realize is that a company cannot make decisions that lose them money. Because if they do, and their competitors don't, they are at a disadvantage. Their competitors have more money to use for marketing, for paying new employees, for ordering new products that customers want. You cannot just knowingly hire someone who is losing money for you, because your competitors will not make that same mistake.

If the government is forcing everyone to do this in Oregon, the competitor problem does not exist. But it is still, by definition, forcing Oregon gas stations to lose money. This is exactly why the post office is bankrupt. It is exactly why the military budget is so wasteful. The government has no problem wasting money, because none of it is theirs. It must feel nice to tell business owners what to do with their money. All the politician cares about is sounding good on the podium and getting more votes, as he forces and demands others to spend their own money in a way that most benefits himself. What a productive ''job'' these people are doing.

Ironically, though, it was the government that lost those jobs to begin with. Now, in Oregon, they are forcing them to return. Irony at its finest.

[BasedTom]

False. Oregon gas stations are required by state law to have someone there to man the pumps. They're not going out of business.

Wonder why that is? I guess Orgeon businesses are just better run than every other business in the country? Or maybe the owners don't need to up their profits 3% that quarter and ****ing hire someone.
Because they're required to do so by state law? Perhaps Oregon business owners aren't special snowflakes, but they're just complying with the established regulations in place?

[NumberSix]

The argument is that the government is actively hurting black people (and poor people), even though their laws are ostensibly trying to help. Minimum wage is an example of this. In theory, the government creates a minimum wage with the idea of helping lower-tier employees earn a livable wage. Companies are not paying these people enough money to live on, so the government steps in and creates a ''floor,'' under which no employee can be paid.
Here's the problem with minimum wage. It's not on an island unaffected by outside factors.

Minimum wage is generally for low skill jobs. It's simple supply and demand. There's no particular value in low skill work because anybody can do it. A surgeon on the other hand is more valuable because they are in shorter supply.

What happens when you also go ahead and flood the market with low skilled workers from all over the world? The minimum wage actually becomes the MAXIMUM wage for low skill jobs. If you have no particularly valuable skills, you're stuck in minimum wage forever.

[joe]

Here's the problem with minimum wage. It's not on an island unaffected by outside factors.

Minimum wage is generally for low skill jobs. It's simple supply and demand. There's no particular value in low skill work because anybody can do it. A surgeon on the other hand is more valuable because they are in shorter supply.

What happens when you also go ahead and flood the market with low skilled workers from all over the world? The minimum wage actually becomes the MAXIMUM wage for low skill jobs. If you have no particularly valuable skills, you're stuck in minimum wage forever.

The market being flooded with low skilled workers, though, makes the minimum wage even more of a burden. The only leverage a low-skilled worker really has is pay. If he is willing to accept slightly less pay, he can get the job and gain some skills and experience. Over time, he can leverage those skills and experience into higher paying positions. But since the government has made that kind of negotiation illegal, the lowest skilled workers are priced out of the market. They are competing for jobs at 8-9 dollars an hour, when their true value might be more like 6 or 7. So if anyone applies for the job who is even slightly more skilled, they are screwed.

If that person could say, ''I will do this job for 6 dollars an hour. I might not be as skilled as your other candidates, but I will take less money in exchange for this on the job experience,'' they might have a shot. But minimum wage forces the least skilled to compete with the slightly more skilled for the same wage. Who is going to get hired?

By the way, the idea of working for minimum wage sickens me. I honestly I think it is terrible to have to pump gas for 9 dollars an hour, let alone 6. But I think these free market arguments are correct, in that they do the best job of explaining human nature, and how people interact in the market. I wish there was less greed and employees were all willing to share their profits with the little guy.

[Akrazotile]

It's one thing to simply see things differently and have legitimately different opinions on subjects.

But posters like Droid and DeucePhallus are always so INCREDIBLY suffused with agenda instead of logic that it just boggles the mind.

Droid is obsessed with homosexuals for some reason, so he is FIERCELY loyal to the liberal cause. It's a blind, retarded, mindless loyalty but he's loyal nonetheless. He just shouts talking points. He fights the battles he's told to fight, takes the position he's supposed to on every issue, he's literally a front-line soldier for the liberal agenda and hasn't actually given the issues the slightest consideration of his own. He just knows that he loves homosexuals, he's desperate to see them accepted, and since the liberal side of the aisle pays that lip service he is all in for them. The dude has no actual brain. He has no qualifications to speak on intellectual issues. He has no understanding, no logic, no reasoning skills, he's just a drone. It's amazing.

Deucewallace is similar but is mostly in it for the image. He's insecure and wholly plain and unspecial, so he tries to take "edgy" liberal views to make himself seem like he has something that stands out about him. Of course, intelligent posters see through the guise easily, but not surprisingly he does have some of the more easily wowed posters fooled.


But seriously, having a discussion with these two when you're trying to actually tease out the truth of the issue, is like doing this :hammerhead: :banghead: over and over again to infinite.

[NumberSix]

The market being flooded with low skilled workers, though, makes the minimum wage even more of a burden. The only leverage a low-skilled worker really has is pay. If he is willing to accept slightly less pay, he can get the job and gain some skills and experience. Over time, he can leverage those skills and experience into higher paying positions. But since the government has made that kind of negotiation illegal, the lowest skilled workers are priced out of the market. They are competing for jobs at 8-9 dollars an hour, when their true value might be more like 6 or 7. So if anyone applies for the job who is even slightly more skilled, they are screwed.

If that person could say, ''I will do this job for 6 dollars an hour. I might not be as skilled as your other candidates, but I will take less money in exchange for this on the job experience,'' they might have a shot. But minimum wage forces the least skilled to compete with the slightly more skilled for the same wage. Who is going to get hired?

By the way, the idea of working for minimum wage sickens me. I honestly I think it is terrible to have to pump gas for 9 dollars an hour, let alone 6. But I think these free market arguments are correct, in that they do the best job of explaining human nature, and how people interact in the market. I wish there was less greed and employees were all willing to share their profits with the little guy.
It's like people are completely unaware that the original reason for things like minimum wages and unions was to make sure that whites didn't lose their jobs to blacks who were willing to work for less.

[Patrick Chewing]

let me ask you something...if black people were getting so much handed to them, getting treated so much better by the government, why are they still so far behind as you so eloquently described earlier? i wasn't aware that there were any laws mandating that black people get shit that other people don't.


If Blacks cannot survive even with all the handouts they are given, then that's on them. When black families are born into a handout society, that's all they'll ever expect. Their government will take care of them cause of this slavery thing and this segregation thing that happened years ago. That's the reason why the Black community overwhelmingly votes Democrat. Democrats fill their heads with handouts and spew propaganda about the other party and how the other party won't take care of them. But look at how disenfranchised the Black community has been for years. All under Liberal leadership.

Look at all these grants and scholarships for blacks that are available to them in college. You know who's taking advantage of those?? Haitians. I can't tell you how many Haitians are in college versus native-born Blacks. There should be no reason why Haitians or Latinos are more successful than the average Black person in America. No reason.

[Dresta]

It seems as though you like to post under the guise of some scientific mind, but it's clear you're quite inept if you don't understand simple experimental designs and analysis that can easily control for covariates such as income while assessing the impacts of race on economic or social achievement.

Seriously, I tried to give your verbose ramblings the benefit of the doubt in the past, but it's clear you really don't understand science with statements like this.

You really are a dumbass if you truly believe that.
yeah bruh, you can just isolate a single factor, using a wholly arbitrary and selective method to do so, and it be completely accurate an non-arbitrary :hammerhead: - honestly, your credulity is right off the charts if you believe such nonsense. If it so valid why don't you prove its epistemological validity? Do you even have an epistemological basis for the things you believe, or do you just believe them? As far as i'm concerned it doesn't fit under the narrow definition of 'science' because it isn't open to falsification; it's an abstract, a construct, and has no tangible existence. If it can't be disproven then you really have no right to purport it as scientific fact, really. Such statistics can never be disproven because they are arbitrary selected nonsense. There are no constants in history - get that into that thoughtless head of yours, jeez.

You wouldn't know science if it smacked you straight in the face. You're rather indicative of the latest generation of 'scientists' who define science as 'what i've been told works by my teacher' and who spend their time conducting the most pointless of research to meet a quota, but which serves no actual function aside from careerism. I know your type: good grades, no brains - typical, mediocre, boring. It's generally what happens when science is opened up to the masses and divorced from its philosophical underpinnings: science as pragmatism, science as a means of expedience (and thus a vast overvaluation of what science can actually show and tell us as human beings) - these being rather typical motivations of the rabble, i.e. you.


according to many white people, yes. racism doesn't exist anymore in 2015
yes, people purposely have kids so they can get an extra check a month that won't cover all of the expenses that come with children. the money you get from welfare or food stamps isn't shit. it's not enough to completely live off of by itself, and it's not meant to be, which is why you can't get things like food stamps without first being employed.

government welfare didn't encourage people to just start f*cking more. you aren't this stupid

more bullshit. i find it hilarious how people who spend no time around black people outside of the ones they interact with online, somehow have so much insight as to how black people think. it's nothing but bullshit conjured from your own racist preconceived notions about black people. you act like black dudes are getting jumped for trying to go to school, and are constantly ridiculed for getting good grades or some shit :oldlol: it's not other black people keeping black people in poor neighborhoods. it's the problem of being poor in and of itself. poverty isn't something that one can just wake up and say "i'm done with this". it's a process. and it's a process that isn't available to everybody.



let me ask you something...if black people were getting so much handed to them, getting treated so much better by the government, why are they still so far behind as you so eloquently described earlier? i wasn't aware that there were any laws mandating that black people get shit that other people don't.Here you go, proving you have not a leg to stand on, and are nothing more than a hysterical race-baiting piece of trash. You have nothing interesting or useful or insightful to say so you mindlessly demonise your opponent as a 'racist' because you have no answer for the things he is saying. I'll just expose the gross stupidity of your post before never replying to you again, because people like you simply are not worth having a discussion with, if they need dehumanise their opponents in such a way:

1. There is most certainly a culture, rather prevalent in black communities, that disdains learning, education, and basically all the behaviours that would allow them to get ahead in the world. This is incredibly destructive and by no means limited to black communities (they are simply less well protected against it). I speak from my own experience, actually, as when i went to school, i would hide the book i read on the bus, because it was embarrassing to be seen reading outside of school. That's just the way it is in a lot of places, and the problem is more pronounced among blacks because they don't have the family structures that protect against things like peer-pressure (nearly 75% born out of wedlock!). No race would succeed in these conditions. It has nothing to do with race you ignorant piece of shit, and everything to do with culture.

2. Your last paragraph? Why if they're given stuff are they failing? Why do you think genius? Because dependency doesn't increase an individual's resourcefulness and self-sufficiency now, does it? Rather, it makes them more dependent, a perpetual liability, a perpetual child who needs to be looked after and cared for. Do you know what type of person is usually resourceful? Someone who's had to work their arse off to get what they have. Do you know who tends not to be? Spoiled kids who get things given to them all throughout life.

3. It's got little to do with 'wanting to have kids', and everything to do with taking away the major incentive to avoid such pregnancies directly, which encourages irresponsible behaviours, as there is protection in case of early pregnancy (the correlation between the increase in these benefits, and the mushrooming of out of wedlock births, is clear as day - it fits logically, and it fits empirically, so stop denying it). It is really little more than common sense, something you evidently lack.

Now **** off and get lost. I won't be replying to you again.



Look at all these grants and scholarships for blacks that are available to them in college. You know who's taking advantage of those?? Haitians. I can't tell you how many Haitians are in college versus native-born Blacks. There should be no reason why Haitians or Latinos are more successful than the average Black person in America. No reason.
Clearly Haitians don't have to deal with racism :confusedshrug:

[DeuceWallaces]

yeah bruh, you can just isolate a single factor, using a wholly arbitrary and selective method to do so, and it be completely accurate an non-arbitrary :hammerhead: - honestly, your credulity is right off the charts if you believe such nonsense. If it so valid why don't you prove its epistemological validity? Do you even have an epistemological basis for the things you believe, or do you just believe them?

Yeah, it's called the scientific process. Wow. You really just exposed yourself. You're not that bright. This is basic experimental design and analysis but you don't understand it at all. It's a very simple analysis to control for poverty or any other covariate while focusing on race.

I'm really disappointed in you. You put up quite the front but really don't understand much beyond the high school level.

[NumberSix]

Yeah, it's called the scientific process. Wow. You really just exposed yourself. You're not that bright. This is basic experimental design and analysis but you don't understand it at all. It's a very simple analysis to control for poverty or any other covariate while focusing on race.

I'm really disappointed in you. You put up quite the front but really don't understand much beyond the high school level.
Do any of your posts ever contain anything other than "you don't understand what you're talking about"?

[The Iron Sheik]

If Blacks cannot survive even with all the handouts they are given, then that's on them. When black families are born into a handout society, that's all they'll ever expect. Their government will take care of them cause of this slavery thing and this segregation thing that happened years ago. That's the reason why the Black community overwhelmingly votes Democrat. Democrats fill their heads with handouts and spew propaganda about the other party and how the other party won't take care of them. But look at how disenfranchised the Black community has been for years. All under Liberal leadership.

what "handouts" are black people given that other people aren't?

and you said of all this shit but still didn't answer my question


Look at all these grants and scholarships for blacks that are available to them in college. You know who's taking advantage of those?? Haitians. I can't tell you how many Haitians are in college versus native-born Blacks.

haitions are black people. you're confusing "race" with nationality.

and no black person gets millions or thousands of dollars in grants just for being black. again, if all of this shit was just sitting there available to take for free, why are black people so behind like you said?


There should be no reason why Haitians or Latinos are more successful than the average Black person in America. No reason.

what allowed you to reach this conclusion that those groups are "more successful" than black people? you've done some field research

[DeuceWallaces]

Do any of your posts ever contain anything other than "you don't understand what you're talking about"?

Maybe you should read the beginning of the thread? That might be a good idea. Not just my response to someone who's writing 500 words on how you can't control for poverty or other important covariates while analyzing the effects of race on economic and social achievement.

Should I agree with him? Would that be a good idea? "Yes person talking about scientific analysis who actually has no idea what he/she is talking about. Yes you are right. You can't analyze race at all."

[The Iron Sheik]

snip


all of this shit to say nothing. guy gets emotional when someone points out his racism. that's what i hate. i don't care if someone is racist. that's fine. i just hate passive aggressive racism that white people try to pass off as intellectualism. saying black people suck isn't really a new idea or something groundbreaking, son.

you and pat keep saying that black people are given handouts that are so much greater than others that it should be impossible (according to pat) for them to be behind anyone else (even though you still haven't pointed out what these handouts are), but yet black people are...still behind according to you all again. black people aren't raised thinking that the federal government will just...take care of them their entire life, because that's impossible anyway.

again, what black-specific benefits are these? if black people are just given so much shit, it shouldn't matter if they're responsible or not because the government will just make up for their mistakes, right? you probably saw some black chick on twitter post about getting her income tax when thinking this up huh?

[Patrick Chewing]

what "handouts" are black people given that other people aren't?

and you said of all this shit but still didn't answer my question



haitions are black people. you're confusing "race" with nationality.

and no black person gets millions or thousands of dollars in grants just for being black. again, if all of this shit was just sitting there available to take for free, why are black people so behind like you said?



what allowed you to reach this conclusion that those groups are "more successful" than black people? you've done some field research

My point is that Blacks and Black culture is so far behind due to their own choosing. I know Haitians are black, but Haitians don't know about American slavery and the plight of the black man in America. They've come to this country and are actually IN school. You ever been to the hospital or a hospice? Mostly all the nurses are either Asian or Haitian. And you ask them how long they've been in this country and you can literally count it with just one hand sometimes.

And if you don't know what "handouts" are given to blacks, then you're just being ignorant. Welfare checks may not apply to a single race, but blacks dominate as the majority recipients. Go to a Financial Aid counselor in college and ask them to name you how many grants and scholarships are out there for African-Americans. Bring a notebook and a pen cause you'll be there for a while.

[Akrazotile]

Maybe you should read the beginning of the thread? That might be a good idea. Not just my response to someone who's writing 500 words on how you can't control for poverty or other important covariates while analyzing the effects of race on economic and social achievement.

Should I agree with him? Would that be a good idea? "Yes person talking about scientific analysis who actually has no idea what he/she is talking about. Yes you are right. You can't analyze race at all."

If someone doesnt get a job because their name is LaTavrius it's impossible to determine (without being explicitly told) whether the hiring party passed them over due to their presumed skin color, or their presumed culture/background, which are DIFFERENT issues. The point Dresta seemed to be making was that while a one-trick pony like you can simply chalk everything up to "racism" over and over again, in reality it's not that simple.

And instead of contributing thoughts to the actual topic of the thread, you've locked onto a semantic point and keep repeating "covariates covariates covariates" hoping people will mistake it for a contribution.

Youve still not articulated any viewpoints on the subtleties of the issue. Youve just given a couple blanket agreements "yup it's racism" and then just keep repeating "covariates covariates covariates covariates covariates".

Youre not fooling anyone. Discuss the topic or just stfu.

[NumberSix]

If someone doesnt get a job because their name is LaTavrius it's impossible to determine (without being explicitly told) whether the hiring party passed them over due to their presumed skin color, or their presumed culture/background, which are DIFFERENT issues. The point Dresta seemed to be making was that while a one-trick pony like you can simply chalk everything up to "racism" over and over again, in reality it's not that simple.

And instead of contributing thoughts to the actual topic of the thread, you've locked onto a semantic point and keep repeating "covariates covariates covariates" hoping people will mistake it for a contribution.

Youve still not articulated any viewpoints on the subtleties of the issue. Youve just given a couple blanket agreements "yup it's racism" and then just keep repeating "covariates covariates covariates covariates covariates".

Youre not fooling anyone. Discuss the topic or just stfu.
There definitely is subtlety. If an employer sees a name like "Michael Washington" with education from a respected historically black university, he's not gonna have the same negative impression as he would with "JaMarian Washington" from a local community college.

It still is a prejudice. It's that he thinks JaMarian might be some ghetto guy. It's not a blanket thing against blacks, but it's not clean of racial stereotyping either.

[dannywpt]

LaTavrius?

JaMarian?

What the **** :oldlol:

[The Iron Sheik]

And if you don't know what "handouts" are given to blacks, then you're just being ignorant. Welfare checks may not apply to a single race, but blacks dominate as the majority recipients

even though that isn't true, go ahead and say this instead. government assistance programs weren't created for black people. and they aren't something that the majority of black people live on. it isn't possible to live entirely off of government assistance anyway.


Go to a Financial Aid counselor in college and ask them to name you how many grants and scholarships are out there for African-Americans. Bring a notebook and a pen cause you'll be there for a while.

i did and it's not much believe me. but you'll get much more money by having good grades, or having great recommendations, or having parents who have good enough credit to take out big loans. minority scholarships aren't a large part of paying for college lol. college is expensive for everyone. black people experience the same college debt as anyone else.

i just want to know what all of these amazing benefits for black people are so i can go get them. i'd gladly take a check