A few things to keep in mind fellas.. for when Lebron wins it all this year

[3ball]

He's a beta that needed to team-hop for ALL his championships - his scoring repertoire and style was never sufficiently adjustable to mesh optimally with teammates, so he could never build a team from scratch into a champion.

Also, when he wins the championship this year, he will invariably do so without putting up anywhere near (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10861834&postcount=13) goat stats, as always.

Then of course, the paint defense in today's game is like whore - wide the **** open - you can't compare this:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


To this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UruofXufVuo&t=4m01s

NO COMPARISON

[ShawkFactory]

:roll:

3ball getting scared

[3ball]

3ball getting scared


Of course - Lebron's team-hopping ensures he plays alongside the most talent in the league, which will serve to vastly overrate his ability going forward when compared to other greats.

Btw, just for the record, Phil Jackson is NOT a genius, and this season exposes him as a fraud that merely benefited from GOAT talent.. After all, Phil is the primary reason Lebron will win the championship this year - it was HIS trade that stacked Cleveland to the brim by giving Lebron a legit interior presence in Mosgov, and a proven all-star caliber talent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDt3gMo4c5w) in JR Smith... (Shumpert was a great addition too)..

I remember when Doug Collins was fired.. His Bulls had lost to the Pistons in 5 games in 1988 and then 6 games in 1989 - when Phil took over in 1990, he did exactly what Doug would have done - lose to the Pistons in 7 games.. Jordan wins in 1991 regardless - Doug was building them up towards the goal just like Phil did.

But anyway, due to his horrific trade and due to his clear ineptness as a front office guy, Phil is officially a fraud luckbox that benefited from coaching literally the greatest players of all time... Phil - you will always be a ********** to me because of this trade.
.

[Smoke117]

http://i.imgur.com/ycYOT4f.gif

[ShawkFactory]

Btw, just for the record, Phil Jackson is NOT a genius, and this season exposes him as a fraud that merely benefited from GOAT talent.. After all, Phil is the primary reason Lebron will win the championship this year - it was HIS trade that stacked Cleveland to the brim by giving Lebron a legit interior presence in Mosgov, and a proven all-star caliber talent (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDt3gMo4c5w) in JR Smith... (Shumpert was a great addition too)..

I remember when Doug Collins was fired.. His Bulls had lost to the Pistons in 5 games in 1988 and then 6 games in 1989 - when Phil took over in 1990, he did exactly what Doug would have done - lose to the Pistons in 7 games.. Jordan wins in 1991 regardless - Doug was building them up towards the goal just like Phil did.

But anyway, due to his horrific trade and due to his clear ineptness as a front office guy, Phil is officially a fraud luckbox that benefited from coaching literally the greatest players of all time... Phil - you will always be a ********** to me because of this trade.
Lol you're clueless.

That's ok. There's places for people like you.

[sd3035]

http://www.lobshots.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/lebron-face.jpg

[dubeta]

The talent around LeBron is similar to the talent Jordan had from 1984-1987, you know, the time where Jordan went 1-9 (www.yougottrolled.com) in the playoffs.


Therefore, if LeBron's overall playoff record over the next few years is better than 1-9, he will automatically be better than Jordan, who at many years struggled to make the playoffs with star teammates, going 30-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_NBA_Playoffs) and still making the playoffs is a weak conference.

Furthermore, Jordan's lack of all-around playmaking, rebounding, and overall defense was a detriment to his team, needing to get the GOAT at each of those skills (Pippen, Rodman) before Jordan was even a factor. LeBron on the otherhand often leads his team in all categories, allowing him to win even with subpar teammate production (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/59460/5-stats-to-know-struggles-of-wade-bosh), something Jordan could never do.

This Cavs team is the 1986 Bulls all over again, lets see if LeBron can take them further.

[warriorfan]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


That modern day D! :lol

[HOoopCityJones]

3ball. You funny and all but this kinda reeks of a meltdown, you ok bro?

[3ball]

Lol you're clueless.

That's ok. There's places for people like you.


Regardless of whether you agree with that MJ would have won with Collins or not, the point remains that Phil Jackson is clearly inept (voted the 2nd worst executive (http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nba-experts-rate-phil-jackson-as-second-worst-exec/)), and merely benefited from coaching the most dominant players of all time (MJ and Shaq - the only guys to EVER 3-peat in the modern, post 1960's era.. and they did it while winning 3 Finals MVP's.. ofc, MJ did it twice).

Phil Jackson, right place, right time in 1990... But RIGHT NOW, Doug Collins is somewhere being very amused.

[keep-itreal]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


LOL at anyone saying defense is tougher in todays league:roll: :roll:

[Smoke117]

LOL at anyone saying defense is tougher in todays league:roll: :roll:

LOL at anyone who says you have an inkling of intelligence. You are generalizing an entire league over one gif.

[ShawkFactory]

Regardless of whether you agree with that MJ would have won with Collins or not, the point remains that Phil Jackson is clearly inept (voted the 2nd worst executive (http://nypost.com/2015/03/25/nba-experts-rate-phil-jackson-as-second-worst-exec/)), and merely benefited from coaching the most dominant players of all time (MJ and Shaq - the only guys to EVER 3-peat in the modern, post 1960's era.. and they did it while winning 3 Finals MVP's.. ofc, MJ did it twice).

Phil Jackson, right place, right time in 1990... But RIGHT NOW, Doug Collins is somewhere being very amused.
Coach=executive....?

You're the fraud :roll:

[3ball]

Coach=executive....?

You're the fraud :roll:
you act like the triangle was phil's offense - it was tex winters... phil just used it.

and btw, nothing changes the fact that phil benefited from coaching the most dominant players of all time (MJ and Shaq - the only guys to EVER 3-peat in the modern, post 1960's era.. and they did it while winning 3 Finals MVP's.. ofc, MJ did it twice).

[keep-itreal]

LOL at anyone who says you have an inkling of intelligence. You are generalizing an entire league over one gif.

That gif summarizes the rules specifically to cater to Lebron to make sure he can score easily :roll:

[dubeta]

The talent around LeBron is similar to the talent Jordan had from 1984-1987, you know, the time where Jordan went 1-9 (www.yougottrolled.com) in the playoffs.


Therefore, if LeBron's overall playoff record over the next few years is better than 1-9, he will automatically be better than Jordan, who at many years struggled to make the playoffs with star teammates, going 30-52 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1986_NBA_Playoffs) and still making the playoffs is a weak conference.

Furthermore, Jordan's lack of all-around playmaking, rebounding, and overall defense was a detriment to his team, needing to get the GOAT at each of those skills (Pippen, Rodman) before Jordan was even a factor. LeBron on the otherhand often leads his team in all categories, allowing him to win even with subpar teammate production (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/59460/5-stats-to-know-struggles-of-wade-bosh), something Jordan could never do.

This Cavs team is the 1986 Bulls all over again, lets see if LeBron can take them further.

This is the truth, quoted for reference.

[3ball]

You are generalizing an entire league over one gif


It's not generalizing, nor one gif - spacing and defensive 3 seconds occur on EVERY possession - they create wider lanes and force defenders to help from further distances on EVERY possession.

The GIF is just an example for new fans that don't yet fully comprehend what they are watching - but since spacing and defensive 3 seconds happen on every possession, there are an infinite number of GIFs demonstrating these things.

So no need to generalize - it is what it is.
.

[Smoke117]

It's not generalizing, nor one gif - spacing and defensive 3 seconds occur on EVERY possession - they create wider lanes and force defenders to help from further distances on EVERY possession.

The GIF is just an example for new fans that don't yet fully comprehend what they are watching.

So no need to generalize - it is what it is.

http://33.media.tumblr.com/354173ad800133f25816e46d1c5e83df/tumblr_n9ym2zclpU1sky7ayo1_500.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif

[navy]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif
3ball .

:roll:

[KobesFinger]

OP what if the Cavs don't win?

[k0kakw0rld]

OP what if the Cavs don't win?
same question I was gonna ask him. Warriors are going to win it all.

[3ball]

http://share.gifyoutube.com/m6orYV.gif
the defense always looks like that when there is a pick-and-roll in the corner - previous eras defenses looked the same in this particular spot you've identified, except there would be defender(s) camping under the rim too, which you don't see in the GIF above.

[Hey Yo]

Let me know when LeBron quit on his team and the league cause he knew he couldn't win 4 titles in a row, like beta MJ did.

[poido123]

Not happening this year.


I can tell you that.

[SHAQisGOAT]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


That modern day D! :lol

OP's obvious agenda driven but yea... And people have the nerve to say shit about past eras' defense; that's terrible :lol



http://i.imgur.com/ycYOT4f.gif

Ol Jack Burton... Classic movie :bowdown:

[3ball]

the defense always looks like that when there is a pick-and-roll in the corner - previous eras defenses looked the same in this particular spot you've identified, except there would be defender(s) camping under the rim too, which you don't see in the GIF above.



Here's REAL no-spacing and paint-camping - this occurred every possession, as dictated by the VERIFIABLE rules and lack of 3-point shooting... No Spacing = Defenders in Close Proximity = Easier/Better Help Defense:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/573113292e852dcb8f5fe242c53e3982.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c2bdc97f50bdc6f9fb0d44ff4f53f8f6.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/728b10a2dca8fca89dca89f115243b29.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/54cd4db17a9330ca58b8e33a0b6f9b2f.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/9452b82cec96338b7f838b67c9198694.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cc9f5bd27abe1cedf21d5f3133957e62.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/4f4c41732d2efc336f98c983acb52e72.gif... See Bill Walton Waiting in Lane

[3ball]

same question I was gonna ask him. Warriors are going to win it all.
I hope you're right - but if you are, it would show how the game has changed - jumpshooting teams were incapable of winning in previous eras... you had to have wings or bigs that could dominate inside.

GS reminds me of 2011 Mavs with better shooters.. but no Dirk.

[3ball]

Let me know when LeBron quit on his team and the league cause he knew he couldn't win 4 titles in a row, like beta MJ did.
there were no more challenges for Jordan.. that's why he retired... it's well-documented that he retired because there were no more challenges for him..

both he and phil jackson have said that many times.

[3ball]

Not happening this year.


I can tell you that.
hopefully, when they play the best teams in the playoffs, something in their offense or defense will be exposed.

[3ball]

Al Jefferson would be a 2nd tier bigman in 1996 - no better than the 12th-best:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - unbelievable all-round talent)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And he'd probably be behind Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.


In addition to the proof from the previous post that dribble-penetration is easier today, we have proof that post scoring is easier as well:

Al Jefferson and others would be considered a 2nd tier bigs in previous eras, yet they are league-leaders in post efficiency today (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200), and they're all at the universally-recognized standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP.

This elite post efficiency from 2nd tier bigs flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies... The only reason coaches don't use post-ups as much as before is because floor-spacing and the hand-check ban increased efficiencies on ball movement and dribble penetration, allowing these methods to SURPASS post-ups.. But Al Jefferson scoring 1.00 PPP on the post proves that post efficiencies THEMSELVES haven't diminished at all.

Also, if we are keeping it real, simple logic tells us that today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds rule force defenders to help from further distances on post players.. So even without the Al Jefferson proof, it makes sense that post PPP is higher today than it used to be.. After all, everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) is.
.

[3ball]

OP's obvious agenda driven but yea...


Agenda-driven perhaps, but also FACTS-driven:

The NBA's own stats show that Lebron and Harden lead the league in isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time) - almost 30% of their possessions are isolations - more than anything else they do... :eek:

Also, it's easy to prove that dribble-penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. The NBA stated the rule changes had accomplished one of their primary objectives (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of increasing penetration - so unless we think the NBA is flat-out lying and pulling shit out of their ass, we have to take them on their word that penetration occurs more now than before.

And again, the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that dribble penetration accounts for more points in today's game than any other scoring method.

I'm not sure what more proof people need that penetration occurs more today than ever before, and that all of today's offenses are BASED on dribble-penetration...

Not that any of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) anyway.. :oldlol:.. The guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick-style catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense was giving him, he'd use elite ability to exploit - the only player ever that was elite at everything.
.

[Hey Yo]

there were no more challenges for Jordan.. that's why he retired... it's well-documented that he retired because there were no more challenges for him..

both he and phil jackson have said that many times.
If that were truly the case, then why sign a new deal with Chicago before the 95-96 season? Why not sign with struggling Philly, Milwaukee or Dallas? Why not sign with on with expansion team Vancouver or Toronto?

Wouldn't that be considered a huge challenge for him?

[ShawkFactory]

So basically what I gather from this thread is that if Lebron wins the title this year we can expect more repetitive, agenda-driven garbage that no one reads than ever before.

[Hey Yo]

Agenda-driven perhaps, but also FACTS-driven:

The NBA's own stats show that Lebron and Harden lead the league in isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time) - almost 30% of their possessions are isolations - more than anything else they do... :eek:

Also, it's easy to prove that dribble-penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. The NBA stated the rule changes had accomplished one of their primary objectives (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of increasing penetration - so unless we think the NBA is flat-out lying and pulling shit out of their ass, we have to take them on their word that penetration occurs more now than before.

And again, the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that dribble penetration accounts for more points in today's game than any other scoring method.

I'm not sure what more proof people need that penetration occurs more today than ever before, and that all of today's offenses are BASED on dribble-penetration...

Not that any of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) anyway.. :oldlol:.. The guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick-style catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense was giving him, he'd use elite ability to exploit - the only player ever that was elite at everything.
.
Mj was an off the ball player yet led the league in FGA in 9 of the 11 full seasons with Chicago. :oldlol:

[3ball]

So basically what I gather from this thread is that if Lebron wins the title this year we can expect more repetitive, agenda-driven garbage that no one reads than ever before.
Nah, I won't bother - that's why I pre-empting it now - there's only so many times you can post the NBA stating that penetration occurs more now than before.

Once Lebron gets ring #3, you won't see me on here anymore... So that should make you cheer for Lebron even harder... Other Jordan fans should probably copy my shit for future use if they want to argue for MJ once Lebron gets his 3rd and 4th ring (on far worse stats) and everyone says he's better than MJ again.

[3ball]

Mj was an off the ball player yet led the league in FGA in 9 of the 11 full seasons with Chicago. :oldlol:
i know, it's crazy - MJ got GOAT stats and production as an off-ball player.

no wonder he's 6/6 in 13 seasons (only 11 full seasons if you take out the injury year in 86' and baseball comeback year in 95').

[Hey Yo]

i know, it's crazy - MJ got GOAT stats and production as an off-ball player.

no wonder he's 6/6 in 13 seasons (only 11 full seasons if you take out the injury year in 86' and baseball comeback year in 95').
It's not crazy...... cause you're full of shit.

[Trollsmasher]

Still waiting for that proof of dribble penetration accounting for more points today than in the previous eras, OP:lol

[3ball]

http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg


Flooding Deandre to the strongside (seen above) leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable - the ways to exploit this were standardized years ago and are routinely used by all teams.

Whereas letting Deandre paint-camp under the rim doesn't leave the weakside vulnerable - Griffin gets to stay on Love in the near-corner, while Dandre's presence under the rim provides the best opportunity to defend against penetrators from the strongside... He's closer to Mosgov this way too.

It's been long proven that a big man's presence under the rim is the best possible position for him defensively - the only reason the strong-side flood exists is BECAUSE defenders can no longer paint-camp.





This simple isolation play would be frontside flooded with help across the lane low today.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0107/Klay-New-03.gif


Today's defensive 3 seconds and spacing forces bigs to defend in a flood and shading-type fashion on the perimeter, instead of protecting the rim in the paint.. To execute floods and shading, bigs must come AWAY from the hoop and defend a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - essentially, today's game forces bigs to trade in their advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (previous eras paint-camping), for a disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult - teams score more today than in the mid-90's and the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show teams score via dribble-penetration more than any other scoring method..

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://33.media.tumblr.com/354173ad800133f25816e46d1c5e83df/tumblr_n9ym2zclpU1sky7ayo1_500.gif

:applause:

Somehow I've never seen this .gif used. Future repped, definitely saving the link for it.

[3ball]

Still waiting for that proof of dribble penetration accounting for more points today than in the previous eras, OP:lol


The NBA stated (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) that the rule changes worked as planned to increase penetration:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

STU JACKSON: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

STU JACKSON: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

STU JACKSON: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

STU JACKSON: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.



WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

I think we might need more gifs to finally get the point across.

[Trollsmasher]

The NBA stated (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) that the rule changes worked as planned to increase penetration:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html

NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

STU JACKSON: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

STU JACKSON: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

STU JACKSON: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

STU JACKSON: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.



WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?
I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping

[BigBoss]

He'll be 2 for 6. He'll run Kevin Love out of town. He'll lose even more respect by the league

[ArbitraryWater]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/US_Navy_090716-N-8590G-008_Members_of_the_damage_control_team_of_the_guid ed-missile_frigate_USS_John_L._Hall_%28FFG_32%29_comp ete_in_the_pipe-patching_event_of_the_Damage_Control_Olympics.jpg
































































































































































































































































Damage Control

[sdot_thadon]

Came in expecting gif and paste meltdown, op delivered. Goat.:oldlol:

If you really go away after lebron wins his 3rd, I think you just created more cavs fans.

[KingBeasley08]

Hey OP

http://api.ning.com/files/EZlEvMY7iYh4E8SCrx7QnWbrb0PAJgTqkUu79JEUtd5Wjtj-lT-z7Ud0y3ks45utO-CZuNKt0upTrNZjfZ5U4Q__/Lebron.gif

u mad?

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion..

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion...

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.....

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion..........

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.............

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.......................

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion...................

[sdot_thadon]

The meltdown continues......



Brah you aight?

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion................................

[3ball]

I want empirical data. This is just a subjective gibberish.

Until then:sleeping
How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source?.. The NBA said their own rules were meant to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration.

Saying that's subjective opinion like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion..............................

[navy]

Dude is straight up melting down. My goodness. You okay bro?

[3ball]

The NBA stated that the rule changes were designed to increase penetration, and WORKED to increase penetration




I want empirical data. This is just a subjective opinion.


How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

Bill Gates isn't CEO anymore though, he's actually barely involved with the company now. :oldlol:

[navy]

Bill Gates isn't CEO anymore though, he's actually barely involved with the company now. :oldlol:
He's melting down. Let him be.

[3ball]

He's melting down. Let him be.
How am i melting down?

I pointed out how the NBA stated the rule changes were designed to increase penetration and ended up succeeding to increase penetration - this cannot be called subjective opinion because it is coming from the source, similar to how Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft could not have been called subjective opinion.

[navy]

How am i melting down?

I pointed out how the NBA stated the rule changes were designed to increase penetration, and ended up succeeding to increase penetration - this cannot be called subjective opinion because it is coming from the source, similar to how Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft could not have been called subjective opinion.

:oldlol:

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

How can it be subjective opinion when it's coming from the source, the NBA?

Saying that's subjective opinion is like saying Bill Gates' vision for Microsoft is subjective opinion.

[3ball]

^^^^^^^^^^^ that's not me losing it - Arbitrary Water had attempted to crater the thread by posting a massive picture that hindered navigation on the page (the previous page).

so i had to get to the next page by posting a bunch of posts - now we're on the next page and navigation is back to normal sans Arbitrary's hateration.

[navy]

^^^^^^^^^^^ that's not me losing it - Arbitrary Water had attempted to crater the thread by posting a massive picture that hindered navigation on the page (the previous page).

so i had to get to the next page by posting a bunch of posts - now we're on the next page and navigation is back to normal.
:roll:

This picture?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/US_Navy_090716-N-8590G-008_Members_of_the_damage_control_team_of_the_guid ed-missile_frigate_USS_John_L._Hall_%28FFG_32%29_comp ete_in_the_pipe-patching_event_of_the_Damage_Control_Olympics.jpg

[3ball]

Bill Gates isn't CEO anymore


So you conceded my point and then offered some misdirection to change the topic - that's cool.. Btw, the NBA's own stats show that Lebron and Harden lead the league in isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time) - almost 30% of their possessions are isolations - more than anything else they do... :eek:

Also, it's easy to prove that dribble-penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. The NBA stated the rule changes had accomplished one of their primary objectives (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of increasing penetration - this is not subjective opinion because it's from the source, just like Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway would never be considered subjective opinion.

And again, the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that dribble penetration accounts for more points in today's game than any other scoring method.

I'm not sure what more proof people need that penetration occurs more today than ever before, and that all of today's offenses are BASED on dribble-penetration...

Not that any of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) anyway.. :oldlol:.. The guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick-style catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense was giving him, he'd use elite ability to exploit - the only player ever that was elite at everything.

[J Shuttlesworth]

This thread is a legendary meltdown. 3ball has already compiled 2500 words essay in here and he's just getting started.

someone who really thought MJ was goat wouldn't be so insecure about LeBron potentially winning a 3rd ring.

[Warfan]

3ball's malfunctioning, more glorious than I could even imagine.

[3ball]

This thread is a legendary meltdown. 3ball has already compiled 2500 words essay in here and he's just getting started.

someone who really thought MJ was goat wouldn't be so insecure about LeBron potentially winning a 3rd ring.
it's not insecurity - it's predicting that after Lebron wins a ring in Cleveland, the media will shove it down everyone's throat again that Lebron is GOAT, just like they erroneously did the first time he won a ring, even though he's so obviously a team-hopping beta that has never dominated anywhere NEAR to the extent Jordan did.

[sd3035]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/r-3OO71OgjI/maxresdefault.jpg

[Smoke117]

This thread is a legendary meltdown. 3ball has already compiled 2500 words essay in here and he's just getting started.

someone who really thought MJ was goat wouldn't be so insecure about LeBron potentially winning a 3rd ring.

I seriously wonder what is wrong with Jordan stans. It's not enough that he's pretty much universally considered the greatest player of all time for them? :confusedshrug:

[navy]

it's not insecurity - it's predicting that after Lebron wins a ring in Cleveland, the media will shove it down everyone's throat again that Lebron is GOAT, just like they erroneously did the first time he won a ring, even though he's so obviously a team-hopping beta that has never dominated anywhere NEAR to the extent Jordan did.
In other words you ARE insecure. If you thought the media was full of shit you would ignore it like the rest of us instead of repeatedly copying and pasting your statements and spamming gifs.

[J Shuttlesworth]

it's not insecurity - it's predicting that after Lebron wins a ring in Cleveland, the media will shove it down everyone's throat again that Lebron is GOAT, just like they erroneously did the first time he won a ring, even though he's so obviously a team-hopping beta that has never dominated anywhere NEAR to the extent Jordan did.
Yep, you don't sound insecure at all... especially when you bring Jordan into it.

[J Shuttlesworth]

I seriously wonder what is wrong with Jordan stans. It's not enough that he's pretty much universally considered the greatest player of all time for them? :confusedshrug:
I'm Still Ballin is right. They want him to be a God, not just the best NBA player of all time. He must be deprived of something in his life... i'm guessing *****

[J Shuttlesworth]

The funny thing is that regardless of how hard 3ball has tried, he's never presented a convincing case that defense is tougher in the 90s. He just spams gifs and expects people to believe him without throwing in any real analysis.

[Dragic4Life]

3ball stop embarrassing jordan.:facepalm

[Budadiiii]

The funny thing is that regardless of how hard 3ball has tried, he's never presented a convincing case that defense is tougher in the 90s. He just spams gifs and expects people to believe him without throwing in any real analysis.
Where's your analysis, jackass?

[dubeta]

3ball stop embarrassing jordan.:facepalm

true, 1-9 is embarrassing enough as it is.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Where's your analysis, jackass?
I never once claimed either era was tougher than the other, nor do I desperately try to compare LeBron to MJ like 3ball does. He's the one constantly making the comparisons, he should back it up with the data.

And where's your analysis on Durant being better than MJ, ******?

[RoundMoundOfReb]

3ball is shook...badly

[knicksman]

true, 1-9 is embarrassing enough as it is.

how much more for 2/5..:oldlol:

[KingBeasley08]

lol smoke is completely right. Jordan stans are by far the most pathetic on ISH. Dude is already considered the GOAT but they are still so insecure about their support

[3ball]

This simple isolation play would be frontside flooded with help across the lane low today.


http://s29.postimg.org/y32v1xeqv/overload.jpg


Flooding Deandre to the strongside (seen above) leaves the weakside a man down and vulnerable - the ways to exploit this were standardized years ago and are routinely used by all teams.

Whereas letting Deandre paint-camp under the rim doesn't leave the weakside vulnerable - Griffin gets to stay on Love in the near-corner, while Dandre's presence under the rim provides the best opportunity to defend against penetrators from the strongside... He's closer to Mosgov this way too.

It's been long proven that a big man's presence under the rim is the best possible position for him defensively - the only reason the strong-side flood exists is BECAUSE defenders can no longer paint-camp.





This simple isolation play would be frontside flooded with help across the lane low today.


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2015/0107/Klay-New-03.gif


Today's defensive 3 seconds and spacing forces bigs to defend in a flood and shading-type fashion on the perimeter, instead of protecting the rim in the paint.. To execute floods and shading, bigs must come AWAY from the hoop and defend a guard off-the-dribble, as Pau is seen trying to do above.

This is a major disadvantage for the big man - essentially, today's game forces bigs to trade in their advantage of taking on smaller defenders AT the rim (previous eras paint-camping), for a disadvantage of contesting quicker players on the perimeter (today's floods and shading).

And clearly, the stats prove that today's floods and shading haven't made scoring or penetration more difficult - teams score more today than in the mid-90's and the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show teams score via dribble-penetration more than any other scoring method..
.

[pauk]

He's a beta that needed to team-hop for ALL his championships - his scoring repertoire and style was never sufficiently adjustable to mesh optimally with teammates, so he could never build a team from scratch into a champion.


In that case:

Jordan is a beta that needed the most stacked team & best coach in NBA history for ALL his championships - his selfishness, shotjacking and style was never sufficiently adjustable to mesh optimally with teammates, so he could never build a team from scratch into a champion or get the worst team in NBA history to be in a NBA Finals at the age of 21, instead he got his supporting casts thrown at his feet on a silverplate almost every year so he didnt have to do anything.

[Dragic4Life]

3ball while you're online, please report to this thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371720) and respond.

[3ball]

3ball while you're online, please report to this thread (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371720) and respond.
done - all rats exterminated

[3ball]

He's the one constantly making the comparisons, he should back it up with the data.


Playoff Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG / 35.2% 3 PT

LEBRON: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG / 33.3% 3 PT


Finals Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 53% FG / 41% 3 PT

LEBRON: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG / 31% 3 PT


Source: basketball-reference.com
.

[3ball]

Playoff Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG / 35.2% 3 PT

LEBRON: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG / 33.3% 3 PT


Finals Averages Thru Age 29:

JORDAN: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 53% FG / 41% 3 PT

LEBRON: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG / 31% 3 PT


Source: basketball-reference.com
.

How's that for data Shuttlesworth?
.

[3ball]

Al Jefferson would be a 2nd tier bigman in 1996 - no better than the 12th-best:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - unbelievable all-round talent)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And he'd probably be behind Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.




he's never presented a convincing case that defense is tougher in the 90s.


It's not about proving previous era defense was BETTER, it's about proving that defensive effectiveness across different eras remains steady - no one era is playing materially better defense than another era given the rules and style of play of that era - it remains equally hard to score regardless of era.

And I've proved that easily - I proved that dribble-penetration occurs more today than previous eras by pointing out that the NBA's statements on the issue.. The NBA stated (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) the rule changes were meant to increase penetration and had succeeded in doing so - again, this is from the source and creator of the new rules, so it cannot be subjective opinion, similar to how Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway is not subjective opinion.

I've also proved that post scoring is easier than ever - Al Jefferson and others would be considered a 2nd tier bigs in previous eras, yet they are league-leaders in post efficiency today (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200), and they're all at the universally-recognized standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP... This elite post efficiency from 2nd tier bigs flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies.

I also pointed out today's "shading" and "floods" leave defenses quite vulnerable (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11164023&postcount=40) in comparison to the legal paint-camping allowed in previous eras - paint-camping has always been the most equitable and least exploitable way to defend in the halfcourt.

[red1]

3ball such a repulsive and disgusting human being. How do you live with yourself

[3ball]

Bill Gates isn't CEO anymore


So you conceded my point and then offered some misdirection to change the topic - that's cool.. Btw, the NBA's own stats show that Lebron and Harden lead the league in isolations (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/isolation/?dir=1&sort=Time) - almost 30% of their possessions are isolations - more than anything else they do... :eek:

Also, it's easy to prove that dribble-penetration occurs more today than previous eras.. The NBA stated the rule changes had accomplished one of their primary objectives (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) of increasing penetration - this is not subjective opinion because it's from the source, just like Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway is not subjective opinion.

And again, the NBA's own stats (http://stats.nba.com/tracking/#!/team/drives/?sort=DTP&dir=1) show that dribble penetration accounts for more points in today's game than any other scoring method.. I'm not sure what more proof people need that penetration occurs more today than ever before, and that all of today's offenses are BASED on dribble-penetration...

Not that any of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) anyway.. :oldlol:.. The guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick-style catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense gave him, he'd use elite ability to exploit - indeed, the only player ever that was elite at everything.

[ImKobe]

"WHEN"

op is ****ing shook or has been a Bran stan all along

It's not a lock you fakkit

[Smoke117]

"WHEN"

op is ****ing shook or has been a Bran stan all along

It's not a lock you fakkit

...:lol

This Kobe stan read the title and instantly became upset without even reading the actual post. Kobe stans...the 2nd worst stan on ISH.

[Dragic4Life]

...:lol

This Kobe stan read the title and instantly became upset without even reading the actual post. Kobe stans...the 2nd worst stan on ISH.
:roll:

[dubeta]

"WHEN"

op is ****ing shook or has been a Bran stan all along

It's not a lock you fakkit

Relax, LeBron winning or not doesn't threaten Kobe's legacy at all :cheers:



















He's already been surpassed for a while now.

[Dragic4Life]

Relax, LeBron winning or not doesn't threaten Kobe's legacy at all :cheers:









He's already been surpassed for a while now.
what legacy?

[dubeta]

what legacy?

The Kobe Chronicles of course!! :cheers:

http://i.imgur.com/Hk2Vb.png

[J Shuttlesworth]

Damn, his essay in here is longer than pauks' for sure. I'll compile it all up into Word tomorrow and do a word count check

[J Shuttlesworth]

How's that for data Shuttlesworth?
.
you realize I only said that to egg you on and make you type out more paragraphs, right? :roll: It worked better than I expected

[dubeta]

3ball falling into troll traps :oldlol:

Dude taking more L's than Jordan without Pippen

[Dragic4Life]

Dude taking more L's than Jordan without Pippen
Woah slow down there, that's debatable.:oldlol:

[ShawkFactory]

How's that for data Shuttlesworth?
.
Has nothing to do with the conversation or any of your stupid claims you've been making. You just came across more insecure than ever by redirecting the argument.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan

Great post, keep the meltdown going please.

[3ball]

Great post, keep the meltdown going please.
A lot of people in these forums often say that today's defensive 3 seconds rule has no impact on the game - but apparently, the NBA feels differently:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html

NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

STU JACKSON: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.


So the NBA has officially stated that the defensive 3 seconds DOES ban paint-camping... and of course, the NBA also officially stated that the rule changes achieved their objective of increasing penetration.. So no paint-camping and increased penetration - these things are characteristic of today's game.

Not that any of it matters - MJ was an off-ball player (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18) anyway - he didn't need to dribble-penetrate.. :banana:

Ball-dominators that can't adjust invariably get shut down by a good defense - MJ's off-ball game was not susceptible to this - he could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI).. Whatever the defense gave him, he'd use elite ability to exploit - MJ is the only player ever that was elite at everything.
.

[jayfan]

The talent around LeBron is similar to the talent Jordan had from 1984-1987

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:




.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan

I don't care, you melting down is just funny. I don't deny that Jordan is the GOAT, he's my #1, this endless barrage of threads just gets tiresome. They reek of insecurity.

[3ball]

I don't care, you melting down is just funny. I don't deny that Jordan is the GOAT, he's my #1, this endless barrage of threads just gets tiresome. They reek of insecurity.
yeah i'm really losing it.. man, am i just tearing my hair out.. glad you're entertained.

but now you also know it's a fact - the NBA's defensive 3 seconds rule banned paint-camping.. you've also become aware that their rule changes were designed to increase penetration and succeeded in doing so.

so i'm glad to be both entertaining and informative.. :pimp: