Harden's Rockets vs. LeBron's Cavs

[Black and White]

Which player had more help?

Keep in mind Harden has been playing without Howard for a good part of the season and I think what hes done with this team in the west has been nothing short of incredible.

LeBrons team was also seen to consist of very little help,

So I leave it up to debate, which player has done more with less?

Keep in mind this is LeBrons Cavs pre-Miami I'm talking about

[dubeta]

Well, if LeBron didnt get injured the Cavs would have a much better record than Houston...

[ArbitraryWater]

Oh no, this ****er again..

are you retarded? Have you taken a look at the teams?

[swagga]

Which player had more help?

Keep in mind Harden has been playing without Howard for a good part of the season and I think what hes done with this team in the west has been nothing short of incredible.

LeBrons team was also seen to consist of very little help,

So I leave it up to debate, which player has done more with less?

Keep in mind this is LeBrons Cavs pre-Miami I'm talking about

just look at those cavs teams and you'll answer your question. :lol
an older less athletic dwight howard that plays only 40 games is still >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> anything lebron had in cleveland.

[Milbuck]

Lebron and it's not close. Harden's team is criminally underrated. Just because they don't have their 2nd star doesn't mean they're a bunch of scrubs. They defend, they shoot, they play hard, they play smart. Just because they're built around Harden doesn't mean they suck. It's just...roster construction.

[nba_55]

FYI, OP is a passive aggressive Lebron hater

[Black and White]

Lebron and it's not close. Harden's team is criminally underrated. Just because they don't have their 2nd star doesn't mean they're a bunch of scrubs. They defend, they shoot, they play hard, they play smart. Just because they're built around Harden doesn't mean they suck. It's just...roster construction.

TBH the same thing could be said about the 09 Cavs or the Magic that made the Finals that year.

Roster construction.

[YouGotServed]

Take away Harden and this team is a lottery team. Take LeBron away and they still make the playoffs in the East.

LeBron Cavs had a lot more talent. Period.

[Milbuck]

TBH the same thing could be said about the 09 Cavs or the Magic that made the Finals that year.

Roster construction.
Not gonna get into the Cavs because I'm in the middle on that, don't think they were quite as bad as a lot of people paint them as, but I also think expecting a championship out of Lebron with those teams was unfair.

But those Magic teams were solid in terms of talent. And that's my point. They didn't have a 2nd high quality star-superstar like KD or Lebron now has. They were just very well built, around one guy who formed the identity of the team. Just because they relied on him for their success doesn't mean the talent wasn't there around him.

It's also why I hate the pro-Harden argument of "take him off the team and they SUCK"...no shit. They're built around him completely, his style of play dictates how they play 100%. Obviously without him they lose their identity.

[scm5]

Lebron and it's not close. Harden's team is criminally underrated. Just because they don't have their 2nd star doesn't mean they're a bunch of scrubs. They defend, they shoot, they play hard, they play smart. Just because they're built around Harden doesn't mean they suck. It's just...roster construction.

:biggums:

TIL Ariza, Josh Smith, Beverley, Terrence Jones, Corey Brewer, Montiejunas, Prigioni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kyrie, Love, Thompson, JR, Mozgov, Marion, Miller

[Proctor]

Oh no, this ****er again..

are you retarded? Have you taken a look at the teams?
Dude, you were just in the other thread completely unaware of the early Lebron Cavs roster. Are you kidding me? You thought dubeta arbitrarily selected those players.

Shameless stan.

[Milbuck]

:biggums:

TIL Ariza, Josh Smith, Beverley, Terrence Jones, Corey Brewer, Montiejunas, Prigioni >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kyrie, Love, Thompson, JR, Mozgov, Marion, Miller
Thought this was about the pre-decision Cavs...

[ArbitraryWater]

Dude, you were just in the other thread completely unaware of the early Lebron Cavs roster. Are you kidding me? You thought dubeta arbitrarily selected those players.

Shameless stan.

bit disappointed at how retarded you are, can't see an obvious joke when its right infront of you.

[Proctor]

bit disappointed at how retarded you are, can't see an obvious joke when its right infront of you.
2/5 for the damage control effort

[Black and White]

Not gonna get into the Cavs because I'm in the middle on that, don't think they were quite as bad as a lot of people paint them as, but I also think expecting a championship out of Lebron with those teams was unfair.

But those Magic teams were solid in terms of talent. And that's my point. They didn't have a 2nd high quality star-superstar like KD or Lebron now has. They were just very well built, around one guy who formed the identity of the team. Just because they relied on him for their success doesn't mean the talent wasn't there around him.

It's also why I hate the pro-Harden argument of "take him off the team and they SUCK"...no shit. They're built around him completely, his style of play dictates how they play 100%. Obviously without him they lose their identity.

In 09, most people thought that Cleveland could win, so I think that year the championship expectation was fair.

I can see your point about the Magic and Rockets though, roster fit for those teams are around the two players. I just thought it would be an interesting comparison between the two, I dislike Harden, but hes been great with this team.

[scm5]

Thought this was about the pre-decision Cavs...

My bad.

You're 100% right. :cheers:

[RightToCensor]

The Cavaliers were always this elite defensive team inside and out. Our best trait defensively is defending the three. We were the better shooting team, part of it because we take so many of them.

Adjusting for era + conference:

Put Lebron on this Rockets team he'd probably make the 2nd Round or WCF.

Put Harden on those late 2000 Cavaliers team he'd make the Finals every year they don't meet a healthy Big Three Celtics.