Magic calls Michael Jordan the great of all time in 1993. [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Micku

03-28-2015, 01:55 AM

Yup. People thought he was GOAT by 1993. There were some claims before he even won his first championship too if I can recall from interviews, articles and commentaries. Just watch some of the Pistons vs Bulls stuff. They would say something like, "MJ may be the GOAT player, but the pistons are etc."

Mr Feeny

03-28-2015, 02:24 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w

Even before the first 3peat was completed, Magic already called Michael Jordan the greatest of all time... and not only the best basketball player, but the greatest athlete ever in sports.

Yup, Magic openly admitted it by then. And scarily enough, that was BEFORE the second three peat, 3 more FMVPs, 2 more regular season MVPS, and 3 more scoring titles :biggums:

kennethgriffin

03-28-2015, 03:23 AM

magic said kobe is the Goat laker... which basically means hes top 5 all time at the very least

just sayin

TAZORAC

03-28-2015, 03:54 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w

Even before the first 3peat was completed, Magic already called Michael Jordan the greatest of all time... and not only the best basketball player, but the greatest athlete ever in sports.

He was, until the BEAST we call Lebron James came along.

dunksby

03-28-2015, 03:57 AM

Magic has a big mouth.

Mr Feeny

03-28-2015, 04:58 AM

magic said kobe is the Goat laker... which basically means hes top 5 all time at the very least

just sayin

And that Lebron is the only one from the current generation (which includes Kobe) that can match jordan. Just saying.

Siemens

03-28-2015, 05:00 AM

Even a broken clock is right twice per day.

stanlove1111

03-28-2015, 11:29 AM

Yup, Magic openly admitted it by then. And scarily enough, that was BEFORE the second three peat, 3 more FMVPs, 2 more regular season MVPS, and 3 more scoring titles :biggums:

If I ran this board you would be banned for the stupid FMVP obsession. Out of all the dumb things that constantly happen on this board the making a big deal out of the finals MVL is at the top.

I think leading his team to 3 more titles is good enough. Not sure why his playing the best in one series is supposed to mean something special..Hard to take anyone serious who thinks the FMVP is really important when rating players..Plus its awarded by very few people voting..

LAZERUSS

03-28-2015, 12:23 PM

Magic and Jerry West have probably proclaimed more GOATs than anyone else in history. More like the "Flavor-of-the-month Club" with those two.

NumberSix

03-28-2015, 01:26 PM

Yes. This was before the days of Internet ring counters.

jlip

03-28-2015, 01:29 PM

Magic and Jerry West have probably proclaimed more GOATs than anyone else in history. More like the "Flavor-of-the-month Club" with those two.

This

bizil

03-28-2015, 02:36 PM

As of 1993, I certainly think that peak wise MJ or Wilt was the best of all time. But GOAT wise, I still think Magic, Russ, Wilt, and Kareem had a case on MJ as the GOAT. GOAT status factors solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, peak value, and impact on the league. So when u look at it like that, MJ certainly WASN'T a lock in that regard in '93.

But pop culture wise, MJ was the most popular athlete of all time. So due to his peak value AND pop culture influence, it was easy to proclaim MJ as the GOAT. But when compared to a guy like Kareem, I don't think MJ was the GOAT in 1993. Once MJ got five rings, THEN i was very comfortable saying MJ was the GOAT.

AkronAngel

03-28-2015, 02:39 PM

Magic and Jerry West have probably proclaimed more GOATs than anyone else in history. More like the "Flavor-of-the-month Club" with those two.

Agreed. It is impossible to take anything he says seriously.

ZMonkey11

03-28-2015, 02:52 PM

Isaiah's closing comments were great. Can't imagine hearing at mind of psychological analysis in today's commentary.

In sorry to pick on you young blood, but it's Isiah,, not Isaiah. This new midget is not arguably the greatest small man of all-time and every time I see this, it makes me feel like Thomas is being disrespected.

Mr Feeny

03-28-2015, 03:38 PM

If I ran this board you would be banned for the stupid FMVP obsession. Out of all the dumb things that constantly happen on this board the making a big deal out of the finals MVL is at the top.

I think leading his team to 3 more titles is good enough. Not sure why his playing the best in one series is supposed to mean something special..Hard to take anyone serious who thinks the FMVP is really important when rating players..Plus its awarded by very few people voting..

It's a good thing you don't run this board then:cheers:back to your mother's basement:applause:
MJ>Kobe
Lebron>Kobe
Magic>Kobe
Bird>Kobe
Shaq>Kobe
Duncan>>>>>Kobe:rockon:

jlip

03-28-2015, 04:53 PM

Premature statements like this are not unique to MJ. Jerry Sloan pretty much had Bird as GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=lqgrAAAAIBAJ&sjid=Bv0FAAAAIBAJ&pg=6684,2938934&dq=larry+bird+best+ever+basketball+player&hl=en) during rookie season.

People were calling Kareem (Lew Alcindor) the best player in the world during his 2nd season.
(http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=348&dat=19710330&id=9ZtOAAAAIBAJ&sjid=30MDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4519,4185979)

George Mikan called Bill Russell the GOAT (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=ENUmAAAAIBAJ&sjid=owIGAAAAIBAJ&pg=2445,4482680&dq=russell+so-good-he-scares-you+mikan&hl=en) before he had even played one NBA game.

...

navy

03-28-2015, 04:59 PM

...
:roll:

3ba11

10-07-2021, 01:12 AM

Here's MJ running a confirmed 4.3 forty-yard dash:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8e5lj2qBwd8&t=07m58s

3ba11

07-21-2022, 05:30 PM

Jordan was considered goat by the vast majority before he retired for good, while Lebron is NOT consider the goat by most, even after 20 seasons to prove it

Round Mound

07-21-2022, 07:12 PM

MJ is the GOAT not because of championships. Its because he is the best player ever. Quite simple.

Full Court

07-21-2022, 10:31 PM

MJ is the GOAT not because of championships. Its because he is the best player ever. Quite simple.

Greatest and best player are two different things in my opinion. I think MJ is the GOAT, and I definitely think he's one of the best ever, but I also think it's impossible to really determine the best player ever. How do you compare MJ with Wilt? How do you compare who's better between a guard and a center? You can't just base it on stats.

I would say though that Jordan has the hands down best combination of skill, individual accomplishments, and team accomplishments. Which is why he gets the GOAT title.

TheGoatest

07-22-2022, 04:33 AM

Thanks for the reminder that the slurping of jordon is not based on the amount of championships he won, and that his circle-jerk repeating of his final tally of championships won is merely coincidental.
Further proof that apparently the criteria for GOAThood is custom-fitted around what jordon managed to accomplish in the end, and not the other way around: There wasn't a set criteria requirement for jordon, i.e. if he accomplished this/that, then he would be considered GOAT.

TheMan

07-22-2022, 06:31 AM

Seething

colts19

07-22-2022, 01:38 PM

3ba11

07-22-2022, 05:38 PM

I think that MJ is goat, however, I do find myself wondering if he is GOAT why couldn't he win until the 90s when the great teams were past their prime, and the Bulls were playing in the weakest decade ever. But then again I saw him time after time put up great scoring number when it meant the most in the 4th quarter. But then again I also saw him get more touch foul calls than anyone in history and got to go to the line and add about 10 or 12 points a game. It's hard to deny his greatness.

The Bad Boys had 3x all-stars at every starting spot, while the Lakers and Celtics had super-teams

Pippen was weak help compared to this, so Jordan couldn't win until the 90's - that's when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star tteams could win

Obviously, anyone wins alongside Jordan in a 2-star vs 2-star format.. 19 on 42% from Pippen (aka Wiggins) was all Jordan needed to win 6 Finals

90sgoat

07-22-2022, 08:05 PM

Greatest and best player are two different things in my opinion. I think MJ is the GOAT, and I definitely think he's one of the best ever, but I also think it's impossible to really determine the best player ever. How do you compare MJ with Wilt? How do you compare who's better between a guard and a center? You can't just base it on stats.

I would say though that Jordan has the hands down best combination of skill, individual accomplishments, and team accomplishments. Which is why he gets the GOAT title.

Yeah, I'm done with this lame GOAT debate, if you ask me, there's a bunch of players who had "it" and who could claim to at some point have been the most important, the best, the most skilled.

I would say, guys like Russel, Wilt, Kareem, Bird, Magic, MJ and now Luka.

Lebron however, should never have been mentioned, in that group.

Does not have the winning of Russell, the stats dominance of Wilt, the unstoppable offense of Kareem, the insane IQ of Bird, the unbelieveable skilled of Magic, the complete package of MJ or the savant technical skill of Luka.

Lebron simply is not remarkable outside his athleticism.

I've said it for 10 years and I'll keep saying it, Lebron is somewhere above Karl Malone, in the running with Charles Barkley, not as dominant in any way as Shaq.

You want to claim he is better than Kobe? I think that's a very hard sell, but he could have been, but ultimately his lack of mental fortitude keeps him out.

colts19

07-22-2022, 08:28 PM

The Bad Boys had 3x all-stars at every starting spot, while the Lakers and Celtics had super-teams

Pippen was weak help compared to this, so Jordan couldn't win until the 90's - that's when expansion spread the talent around evenly so 2-star tteams could win

Obviously, anyone wins alongside Jordan in a 2-star vs 2-star format.. 19 on 42% from Pippen (aka Wiggins) was all Jordan needed to win 6 Finals

I think the thing that really stands out about Jordan even in the weak 90's is that he so totally dominated. Starting in 1990 his team won 27 out of 29 playoff series. Only 2 of which went 7 games, the loss to detroit and the win against the pacers. That is pretty amazing. Only matched by Bill Russell, who also won 27 out of 29 playoff series.

3ba11

07-22-2022, 10:31 PM

I think the thing that really stands out about Jordan even in the weak 90's is that he so totally dominated. Starting in 1990 his team won 27 out of 29 playoff series. Only 2 of which went 7 games, the loss to detroit and the win against the pacers. That is pretty amazing. Only matched by Bill Russell, who also won 27 out of 29 playoff series.

It's easier to be 1 of 2 super-teams with automatic trips to the Finals (80's) than one of MANY Finals-caliber teams (90's), aka parity.

Parity = tougher league

Super-team rings are easier than non-super-team rings

With the talent evenly-spread in the 90's, only 2 stars were needed for a Finals-caliber team, so there were MANY Finals-caliber teams - this is much tougher than a top-heavy league where the 2 super-teams get automatic trips to the Finals.

kawhileonard2

07-22-2022, 10:36 PM

Magic is correct

colts19

07-23-2022, 01:18 PM

It's easier to be 1 of 2 super-teams with automatic trips to the Finals (80's) than one of MANY Finals-caliber teams (90's), aka parity.

Parity = tougher league

Super-team rings are easier than non-super-team rings

With the talent evenly-spread in the 90's, only 2 stars were needed for a Finals-caliber team, so there were MANY Finals-caliber teams - this is much tougher than a top-heavy league where the 2 super-teams get automatic trips to the Finals.

Come on 3ball, give Bill Russell a little credit. He won 27 out of 29 playoff series and he did it without all of the playoff losses MJ had prior to that streak. I don't care who he did it against, its still an amazing stat.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 03:21 PM

Come on 3ball, give Bill Russell a little credit. He won 27 out of 29 playoff series and he did it without all of the playoff losses MJ had prior to that streak. I don't care who he did it against, its still an amazing stat.

It isn't about who Russell faced - it's about who he HAD

Russell had 10 HOF teammates

Otoh, Jordan was nearly undefeated with just 1 all-star

Jordan would've had 80-win seasons with the help Russell had

Russell also faced no defensive attention because teammates led the scoring, whereas Jordan defeated maximum defensive attention (carried scoring load).. Remember that Jordan averaged 35 as DPOY, so that's 8 points better than Hakeem's 27 as DPOY

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 03:24 PM

It isn't about who Russell faced - it's about who he HAD

Russell had 10 HOF teammates

Jordan was nearly undefeated with just 1 all-star

Jordan would've had 80-win seasons with the help Russell had

Russell's greatness made his teammates hall of famers.

K.C. Jones, Tom Sanders, & Frank Ramsey don't sniff the HOF without Russell. None of them were all-stars.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 03:35 PM

Russell's greatness made his teammates hall of famers.

Rookie Russell joined a team that had 4 HOF and the 2nd best record in the league.

MJ would've won every year with that too

And those Celtics added several more HOF's after Russell arrived

K.C. Jones, Tom Sanders, & Frank Ramsey don't sniff the HOF without Russell. None of them were all-stars.

So they were a bunch of "pippen's" and therefore nothing without dynasty system and chemistry?

They luckboxed the perfect situation by getting to grow up in dynasty system and chemistry.?

Then I agree with your assessment.. After all, Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 03:43 PM

Rookie Russell joined a team that had 4 HOF and the 2nd best record in the league.

MJ would've won every year with that too

And those Celtics added several more HOF's after Russell arrived

So they were a bunch of "pippen's" and therefore nothing without dynasty system and chemistry?

They luckboxed the perfect situation by getting to grow up in dynasty system and chemistry.?

Then I agree with your assessment.. After all, Pippen was a 14 ppg dunker that couldn't score outside the triangle

Russell won a championships with a completely different cast, his roster in 1957 was completely different from 1969. MJ always needed Pippen.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 03:53 PM

Russell won a championships with a completely different cast, his roster in 1957 was completely different from 1969. MJ always needed Pippen.

Russell was carried - he won a bunch of Horry rings or Draymond rings.. Horry won on 3 different teams too with 3 different guys carrying his ass like Russell.. whooptiwhoop

It's disingenuous to compare Jordan and Russell's rings

Ultimately, MJ was good enough to win with Pippen so the Bulls never upgraded

They almost did several times though.. They considered moving Pippen because there were near-losses that would've been his fault - anytime a series was close or lost, it was Pippen's poor play that caused it.... LOOK IT UP.. Pippen was the bare minimum that a human can have a dynasty with (the Bulls had the least star help of any dynasty)

The most notable Pippen trade talk was after the 96' Finals, when Krause realized how much better Kemp was than Pippen.. Krause hoped that "4 rings doh" would sucker the Sonics into killing their franchise like the Rockets did in 99'.. But the Sonics and their fans were like hell no - we don't want Brick City Pippen

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 03:59 PM

Russell was carried - he won a bunch of Horry rings or Draymond rings.. Horry won on 3 different teams too with 3 different guys carrying his ass like Russell.. whooptiwhoop

WRONG

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503095-Bill-Russell-s-incredible-defensive-impact-Why-he-is-easily-the-GOAT-Defender

Of course, you never take defense into account so I understand if you can't comprehend.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 04:08 PM

WRONG

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?503095-Bill-Russell-s-incredible-defensive-impact-Why-he-is-easily-the-GOAT-Defender

Of course, you never take defense into account so I understand if you can't comprehend.

Jordan averaged 35 as DPOY, which is 8 points better than Hakeem's 27 as DPOY (the next highest guy)

So Jordan was heads-and-shoulders above everyone as a 2-way player.. completely unmatched

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 04:13 PM

Jordan averaged 35 as DPOY, which is 8 points better than Hakeem's 27 as DPOY (the next highest guy)

I think it's pretty clear to any real fan that MJ never had the defensive impact of a prime Hakeem, or any other elite defensive bigs for that matter. Guards have limited defensive impact compared to bigger players. Just look at Marcus Smart, won DPOY, but in the playoffs and in the Finals it was clear his teammate Robert Williams was the more impactful defender, by alot.

Jordan wishes he had Russell's defensive impact.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 04:24 PM

I think it's pretty clear to any real fan that MJ never had the defensive impact of a prime Hakeem, or any other other elite defensive bigs for that matter. Guards have limited defensive impact compared to bigger players. Just look at Marcus Smart, won DPOY, but in the playoffs and in the Finals it was clear his teammate Robert Williams was the more impactful defender, by alot.

Jordan wishes he had Russell's defensive impact.

I disagree because a great team defense can be achieved numerous ways

In Jordan's case - he could carry an offense, so this allowed GM's to surround him with cheap defenders, while Hakeem and Russell required expensive shooters and scorers (more star help)

Heck, Curry had better defensive teams than Hakeem for the same reason.

then there's CULTURE

You can have a human eraser like Hakeem, or you can have a great culture that's spearheaded by a cold-blooded assassin who ensures there's never any let down.

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 04:29 PM

I disagree because a great team defense can be achieved numerous ways

In Jordan's case - he could carry an offense, so this allowed GM's to surround him with cheap defenders, while Hakeem and Russell required expensive shooters and scorers (more star help)

Hakeem won a title with his 2nd option producing 14 ppg in '94. Bigger carry job than any of Jordan's titles.

3ba11

07-23-2022, 04:38 PM

Hakeem won a title with his 2nd option producing 14 ppg in '94. Bigger carry job than any of Jordan's titles.

One-off's in a down year don't count

Hakeem was mostly a massive loser that couldn't carry anything compared to MJ

1987_Lakers

07-23-2022, 04:40 PM

One-off's in a down year don't count

Hakeem was mostly a massive loser that couldn't carry anything compared to MJ

lmao. "It doesn't count".

:lol

3ba11

07-23-2022, 04:44 PM

lmao. "It doesn't count".

:lol

It's a one-off - Jordan has 6 like that

Both guys could lead great defenses, but Jordan led GOAT offenses too - Jordan allowed a 2-way team

It's called 2-way play, and no one is close to MJ

You're pretending offense doesn't count but it does and MJ was far superior to anyone in history, while also being a goat defender - no one is close this

FilmyCogTurner

07-23-2022, 07:01 PM