A dominating center is long gone in todays sceme. It's a peremeter era.

[Fawker]

No more great bigs.

[3ball]

Indeed, like the OP title says - it's a perimeter player's era.. Here's the NBA officially stating how the rule changes accomplished their objective of incresasing dribble-penetration - this is from the source, so it's not subjective opinion, just like Warren Buffet's vision for Berkshire Hathaway isn't subjective opinion:

http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html


NBA.COM: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

STU JACKSON: Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.


NBA.COM: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

STU JACKSON: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim.


NBA.COM: From an Xs and Os perspective, how have coaches adjusted to a more wide-open game? What have they done differently?

STU JACKSON: Coaches have utilized more space on the floor so to create more room for dribble penetration, two-man pick-and-roll basketball and dribble exchanges on the perimeter.


NBA.COM: When you watch the game today, does it closely resemble an international game or are there still distinct differences in the style of play?

STU JACKSON: Our game does more closely resemble an international game in terms of the style of play than it used to. However, there are distinct differences in the international game vs. the NBA game. The international game utilizes a pure zone defense (as opposed to the defensive three-second rule), which allows frontcourt players to stand in the middle of the lane and discourage cutting, passing and dribble penetration.
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[Imtheman]

Dcousins

[3ball]

Al Jeffereson would be a 2nd tier bigmen in 1996 - no better than the 12th-best:

Hakeem
Shaq
Robinson
Ewing
Alonzo
Sabonis (25 PER - unbelievable all-round talent)
Karl Malone
Barkley
Webber
Kemp

And he'd probably be behind Rik Smits, Vin Baker, Dino Radja, and certainly Derrick Coleman.


The post efficiencies of today's bigs lets us know how the superior bigs of previous eras would do today - Al Jefferson and others would be considered a 2nd tier bigs in previous eras, yet they are league-leaders in post efficiency today (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/post-up/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*200), and they're all at the universally-recognized standard for elite efficiency of 1.00 PPP.

This elite post efficiency from 2nd tier bigs flat-out proves today's defensive environment hasn't diminished post efficiencies... The only reason coaches don't use post-ups as much as before is because floor-spacing and the hand-check ban increased efficiencies on ball movement and dribble penetration, allowing these methods to SURPASS post-ups.. But Al Jefferson scoring 1.00 PPP on the post proves that post efficiencies THEMSELVES haven't diminished at all.

Also, if we are keeping it real, simple logic tells us that today's spacing and defensive 3 seconds rule force defenders to help from further distances on post players.. So even without the Al Jefferson proof, it makes sense that post PPP is higher today than it used to be.. After all, everything else (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) is.
.

[LoneyROY7]

Karl-Anthony Towns.

[Im Still Ballin]

Thanks Stu

[qrich]

Antonio Davis
Przemek Karnowski

[Imtheman]

Thanks Stu
:roll:

[navy]

Thanks Stu
:roll:

[theaussieguy]

and thank god for that, watching big men fumble a ball around until they get it into the hoop simply because they are tall enough to do so, without possessing any real talent or ability other than being taller than everyone else, is very boring.

"OH MY GOD, PRIME WILT WAS SO DOMINANT....HE COULD LIKE PICK UP THE BALL AND SLAM DUNK IT WITHOUT EVEN LEAVING THE GROUND, OMG SUCH TALENT, TOTALLY SLAMMING ON 6'5 WHITE GUYS WHO SIMPLY COULDNT REACH THE BALL, WE WILL NEVER WITNESS SOMETHING SO GREAT AGAIN"

[Sarcastic]

Jah Okafor gonna change all that.

[navy]

How many pages of post do you have readily available to be copied and pasted?

[Im Still Ballin]

How many pages of post do you have readily available to be copied and pasted?
3ball has taken it to the next level

He most likely has his whole agenda cataloged in a word document or something

[3ball]

Still Ballin got jokes i see..
.

[JtotheIzzo]

No more great bigs.

Davis
Embiid
Towns
Okafor
Maker
etc...

There are a lot of bigs coming up for the next era that are near or at the top of their class.

Right now the pace and space, dribble pen, corner three is the offense du jour, but someone will scheme something to counter that and it will involve a big.

I can see a four corner with shot changing center in the middle type zone defense (Like an extended 2-3) becoming a popular way to protect the rim, pick and roll, and the three point line, and once defenses catch up and slow down offenses, then getting people into the high and low posts will become an effective way to beat the new defenses.

Offense always evolves before defense, and once the defensive masterminds scheme ways to stop the current offensive styles, offenses will counter with a new approach likely involving bigs.

[3ball]

Thanks Stu


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/fa322e569c8c0b0e413a45e58bb9e54a.gif


Very funny.

The idea was to allow more players to play the way Jordan was PERCEIVED to play - as a player that went 1-on-5 every play via dribble-penetration.

But the NBA messed up.. they made it too easy to get in the lane, so now that's all players do - they drive for layups and kick for 3-pointers - but they've lost everything in between.

Not that any of it matters - none of today's wings play like MJ because he was an off-ball player anyway.. Ironically, off-ball players actually benefit THE MOST from spacing, less physicality and enhanced ball movement, so the only question is which part of Jordan's game would go MORE bananas in today's game - his off-ball game that had the fastest isolation pace ever (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=371913), or his GOAT ball-dominator game (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games)?.

He's the only guy ever that was elite at everything - the guy could morph into Stephan Curry in the 1992 Finals if needed, or score 55 in the playoffs on all JJ Redick catch-and-shoot (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U06ly1eN4tI) - whatever the defense gave him, he'd use elite ability to exploit.

[Im Still Ballin]

What do you think of Lebron James

[KirbyPls]

What do you think of Lebron James

Not as good as MJ, better than Kobe, legitimate shot to be top-5-6 player ever.

[3ball]

What do you think of Lebron James


He's already down to a 25 PER and he's barely 30.. He's basically a 25 PPG scorer at this point in his career..

And even when his stats were slightly better a few years ago, his style (lebron-ball) always reduced the role and production of teammates (i.e. Bosh, Wade, Love).. With teammates not being able to maximize their production, the TEAM was prevented from maximizing its production, which was the source of the repeated underachievement Lebron's teams have become known for (2006 World Games, 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014).. In both 2009 and 2010, the Cavs were the #1 seed, and both seasons, they failed to reach the Finals (in part because Lebron-ball facilitates team-underachievement).

Also, Lebron's teams are always stacked with the most talent in the league due to his team-hopping.. Consequently, compared to various all-time greats, the stats prove he gets to ring without having to play nearly as well as they did - for example, this year when he rings, he'll probably get to average like 22 ppg in the playoffs and/or Finals.. That's standard from here on out, nor is it a surprise - he almost never achieved a GOAT stat level in a playoff series, and the few times he did, he never won (due to lebron-ball).

[Nash]

the lebron legacy, managed to make the league a perimeter orianted and made bigs obsolete.

inb4 raging 3ball

[Im Still Ballin]

The SF position has been relatively stacked during Lebron's reign...

Very top heavy to say the least, comparable to the center position in the 90's

Lebron
Durant
Carmelo
Pierce
McGrady
Joe Johnson
Peja
Richard Jefferson
Rashard Lewis
Jamal Mashburn
Andre Igoudala
Jeff Green
Rudy Gay
Parsons
Gerald Wallace

[veilside23]

The SF position has been relatively stacked during Lebron's reign...

Very top heavy to say the least, comparable to the center position in the 90's

Lebron
Durant
Carmelo
Pierce
McGrady
Joe Johnson
Peja
Richard Jefferson
Rashard Lewis
Jamal Mashburn
Andre Igoudala
Jeff Green
Rudy Gay
Parsons
Gerald Wallace

mcgrady is more of a combo...

yes i understand lebron and carmelo

but 90's center are you kidding me?

hakeem
shaq
ewing
mourning
drob
divac
rik smiths
motombo


i dont know if sf this decade is really top heavy... and imo mashburn peja jefferson lewis is not really considered lebron era... peak of those guys was pre lebron


i think cousins , towns, embiid can change that really soon. we can also put AD to center as well

[3ball]

The SF position has been relatively stacked during Lebron's reign...

Very top heavy to say the least, comparable to the center position in the 90's

Lebron
Durant
Carmelo
Pierce
McGrady
Joe Johnson
Peja
Richard Jefferson
Rashard Lewis
Jamal Mashburn
Andre Igoudala
Jeff Green
Rudy Gay
Parsons
Gerald Wallace



2000-2014 SF's .............1984-1998 SF's

Lebron.............................. Larry Bird
Durant.............................. Dominique
Carmelo............................ Adrian Dantley
Pierce............................... James Worthy
Paul George....................... Grant Hill
Kawhi Leonard.................... Scottie Pippen
Rashard Lewis.................... Glen Rice
Peja................................. Chris Mullin
Richard Jefferson................ Dr. J
McGrady............................ Bernard King
Ron Artest......................... Dennis Rodman
Andre Igoudala................... Sean Elliot
Jeff Green......................... Sharif Abdur Rahim
Rudy Gay.......................... Alex English
Parsons............................. Detlef Schrempf
Gerald Wallace................... Reggie Lewis
Shawn Marion.....................Richard Dumas
Luol Deng.......................... Glenn Robinson
Caron Butler...................... Mark Aguirre
....................................... Tom Gugliotta
....................................... Jamal Mashburn


So it wasn't just the PF's and Centers that were deeper - ALL frontcourt positions had far greater depth of talent in previous eras, including SF's...

Btw, the SF class from 1984-1998 looks night-and-day better than the SF's from today - the difference in quality couldn't look more obvious.

And in the backcourt, the SG's of previous eras were deeper too... The only position where today has any advantage is PG.
.

[TripleA]

Your SF List ....................1984-1998 SF List

Lebron............................. Larry Bird
Durant............................. Dominique
Carmelo........................... Grant Hill
Pierce.............................. Bernard King
McGrady........................... Dr. J
Joe Johnson...................... Glen Rice
Peja................................ Chris Mullin
Richard Jefferson............... James Worthy
Rashard Lewis................... Adrian Dantley
Jamal Mashburn................ Glenn Robinson
Andre Igoudala................. Scottie Pippen
Jeff Green........................ Sharif Abdur Rahim
Rudy Gay......................... Alex English
Parsons........................... Detlef Schrempf
Gerald Wallace................. Dennis Rodman
..................................... Mark Aguirre
..................................... Sean Elliot
..................................... Richard Dumas
..................................... Reggie Lewis
..................................... Tom Gugliotta
.....................................


So it wasn't just the PF's and Centers that were deeper - ALL frontcourt positions had far greater depth of talent in previous eras, including SF's...

Btw, the SF class from 1984-1998 looks night-and-day better than the SF's from today - the difference in quality couldn't look more obvious.

And in the backcourt, the SG's of previous eras were deeper too... The only position where today has any advantage is PG.
.

Alright how but this list 2004 - 2015

Lebron james
Kevin durant
Carmelo anthony
Paul pierce
t-mac
Shawn marion
andrei kirlenko
Peja
Luol deng
iggy
rashard lewis
ron artest
paul george
gerald wallace
stephen jackson
caron butler
josh howard

I think this list is pretty equal in depth and star power

[RightToCensor]

Why are we talking about SFs? I don't care to look up why.

Centers in today's league don't win as the number one offensive option on their team. Defenses are smart enough to double, recover, cut passing lanes, and make adjustments for a low post big man to single-handedly beat a playoff team. There's a reason Demarcus Cousins of the Sacramento Kings and Brook Lopez of the Brooklyn Nets struggle to make it out the lottery without major help from the perimeter. It's too easy in today's league to counteract the positive effect big men have for their respective team. The three pointer is so important and apparent that team's need shooters more than they need a low post threat. We're in the era of perimeter play, that's what wins in today's league.

[Showtime80']

BS! The league has HAD to become perimeter oriented because dominant centers are NOT being developed. Cousins and Lopez are not in the same league as the centers from 20 years ago!

And what a discovery, again the NBA is a team game not one on one. Put Shaq, Kareem or Hakeem on bad teams and their going to struggle in 60's, 70's, 80's or any other decade no matter what the league focus is.

In the same token, look at what an offensively limited center like Dwight Howard did a couple of years ago in getting to the Finals just surrounded with a bunch of shooters. Can you imagine if you put a prime Shaq or Hakeem with that team in the pathetic East? probably 70+ wins and sweeping their way to the title.

[Showtime80']

Please TripleA!

3ball's SF list included 12 hall of famers, how many in your list?

[Paul George 24]

No more great bigs.
because big man lack skills

[Paul George 24]

What do you think of Lebron James
weak era