2015 westbrook vs 2011 Wade

[greatest-ever]

Better player? No troll answers here.

[swagga]

wade by a healthy margin ... The experience and defensive impact gap is significant.

[swagga]

oh, btw, the previous post was from a "winning a ring" perspective.

for the regular season i'd take westbrook's energy.

[greatest-ever]

wade by a healthy margin ... The experience and defensive impact gap is significant.
Agree on defense. There is no experience edge though this was Wade's 8th season, Westbrook's 7th and both jave plenty of postseason action.

[ShawkFactory]

Wade.

Pretty much echoing the others but in the regular season Westbrook would have better numbers but when it came down to it I'd rather have Wade on my team.

[TheNaturalWR]

Wade comfortably. 2011 Wade is such an underrated season for him. Honestly felt like that was his 2nd best season ever tied with 07' pre-injury. He put up 25/6/5 on 50% FG and that's with playing LeBron. If LeBron got injured like Durant did this season, he probably would have put up 30/7/6 and been a strong MVP candidate.

[Prime_Shaq]

Just wondering why do you pick 2011 Wade? Any particular reason?

[aj1987]

Just wondering why do you pick 2011 Wade? Any particular reason?
1. Better offensive player.
2. Higer IQ.
3. More efficient.
4. Better defender.

[BlakFrankWhite]

People picking Wade need to get their head examined..

Wade had far more help then Westbrook did so ofcourse his play was gonna look good....this season Durant's has/will missed 50+.....Ibaka has/will miss 20+ games.....

so Westbrook single-handedly carried his team to the playoffs....while being top 5 in both scoring and assists(first player in 27 years to do so)....

Wade had the frikkin MVP and a perennial all-star...so his FG% would obviously look better....while Westbrook's had to carry the offensive load for much of the season.... he HAS to shoot more considering he has team mates like Roberson,Waiters and Singler.

[aj1987]

People picking Wade need to get their head examined..

Wade had far more help then Westbrook did so ofcourse his play was gonna look good....this season Durant's has/will missed 50+.....Ibaka has/will miss 20+ games.....

so Westbrook single-handedly carried his team to the playoffs....while being top 5 in both scoring and assists(first player in 27 years to do so)....

Wade had the frikkin MVP and a perennial all-star...so his FG% would obviously look better....while Westbrook's had to carry the offensive load for much of the season.... he HAS to shoot more considering he has team mates like Roberson,Waiters and Singler.
'06 - 49.5%
'07 -49.1%
'09 - 49.1%
'11 - 50%

Wade has always been efficient. He actually had WORSE teammates in '09 than what WB has right now. He still managed 49.1%. Just because he had better teammates doesn't make him a worse player than what he was in '09/'10. Even though he shared the ball with LeBron and Bosh a ton, he managed to put up. 26/6/5/2/1 on 58% TS with elite defense.

[greatest-ever]

People picking Wade need to get their head examined..

Wade had far more help then Westbrook did so ofcourse his play was gonna look good....this season Durant's has/will missed 50+.....Ibaka has/will miss 20+ games.....

so Westbrook single-handedly carried his team to the playoffs....while being top 5 in both scoring and assists(first player in 27 years to do so)....

Wade had the frikkin MVP and a perennial all-star...so his FG% would obviously look better....while Westbrook's had to carry the offensive load for much of the season.... he HAS to shoot more considering he has team mates like Roberson,Waiters and Singler.
This comment is strange.

Westbrook has mostly been in the 42-44 fg%, 52-54 ts% for his career even with KD playing so that argument about Wade's teammates isn't a legitimate point. A healthy Wade has always shot much more efficiently than that regardless of supporting cast.

Furthermore, Westbrook's insane usage inflates his numbers and assists in particular, while he's also averaging 4.4 turnovers which is pretty abysmal.

You can't really judge this comparison strictly off numbers though, because Wade had way less ball handling duties with Lebron there. If there was no Lebron, Wade probably would've had another 27 5 7 type season with better defense than Russell.

[BlakFrankWhite]

'06 - 49.5%
'07 -49.1%
'09 - 49.1%
'11 - 50%

Wade has always been efficient. He actually had WORSE teammates in '09 than what WB has right now. He still managed 49.1%. Just because he had better teammates doesn't make him a worse player than what he was in '09/'10. Even though he shared the ball with LeBron and Bosh a ton, he managed to put up. 26/6/5/2/1 on 58% TS with elite defense.


TS% while being an important stat...isn't the be-all,end all of a player's importance...just look at Kobe,his FG% were never jaw dropping...yet he was the most feared scorer in his prime...

Like I said Westbrook has to shoot more....Waiters just had a 2/2/2 performance in 27 minutes last night and he's been terrible ever since he joined....not to forget the many legendary 0 point performances by Singler,Roberston and ofcourse Kendrick Perkins.

Westbrook puting up a historic 27/7/9 season....he's carrying the Thunder to the PO's in the toughest western conference in history.

2015 WB > 2011 Wade

[greatest-ever]

Just wondering why do you pick 2011 Wade? Any particular reason?
For comparison? Because i think Wade's other healthy prime years being 06, 09, and 2010 are comfortably better and i don't see them as a worth comparison.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

1. Better offensive player.
2. Higer IQ.
3. More efficient.
4. Better defender.
Better offense is arguable. 11 Wade didnt put pressure on defenses like Russ does right now
i would pick Wade tho. Thats a top 20 player ever in one of his best seasons

[greatest-ever]

TS% while being an important stat...isn't the be-all,end all of a player's importance...just look at Kobe,his FG% were never jaw dropping...yet he was the most feared scorer in his prime...

Like I said Westbrook has to shoot more....Waiters just had a 2/2/2 performance in 27 minutes last night and he's been terrible ever since he joined....not to forget the many legendary 0 point performances by Singler,Roberston and ofcourse Kendrick Perkins.

Westbrook puting up a historic 27/7/9 season....he's carrying the Thunder to the PO's in the toughest western conference in history.

2015 WB > 2011 Wade
That really isn't much of a counter to my statement. You didn't address my point about Westbrook's Usage % and keep pointing to stats for Westbrook being the better player. You can't go by stats, Wade was sharing the ball with Lebron who was averaging 27 7 7 himself. Wade is better than his stats suggest here.

Again the fact that he is carrying them to the postseason isn't a relevant argument. Wade has carried scrub teams to the playoffs himself and 2011 would've been no exception if he had scrubs.


2015 WB > 2011 Wade

Yeah repeating that isn't presenting any sort of argument.

I think this comparison is highly debatable and ism waiting for the playoffs to really make my decision.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade: 2006, 2007 (pre injury), 2009, 2010, and 2011

Are comfortably better than what I assume is peak 2015 Westbrook.

It's really not even arguable. Less ball dominance, better numbers, better efficiency, better leadership, smarter, more coachable, better defender, more experience. Westbrook has absolutely no argument.

[BlakFrankWhite]

That really isn't much of a counter to my statement. You didn't address my point about Westbrook's Usage % and keep pointing to stats for Westbrook being the better player. You can't go by stats, Wade was sharing the ball with Lebron who was averaging 27 7 7 himself. Wade is better than his stats suggest here.

Again the fact that he is carrying them to the postseason isn't a relevant argument. Wade has carried scrub teams to the playoffs himself and 2011 would've been no exception if he had scrubs??


Yeah repeating that isn't presenting any sort of argument.

I think this comparison is highly debatable and ism waiting for the playoffs to really make my decision.


Have you seen the Thunder games in which Westbrook didn't play?

Without him They're 5-11 ffs....ofcourse he's gonna have a super high usage%....who do you expect to carry the team? Enes "worst big-man defender in the league" Kanter....Dion "missed open layups" Waiters?


Btw 2015 Western conference >>>> any eastern confernce season Wade has played in

[greatest-ever]

Have you seen the Thunder games in which Westbrook didn't play?

Without him They're 5-11 ffs....ofcourse he's gonna have a super high usage%....who do you expect to carry the team? Enes "worst big-man defender in the league" Kanter....Dion "missed open layups" Waiters?


Btw 2015 Western conference >>>> any eastern confernce season Wade has played in
Idk why you keep using teammates as your argument, it doesn't make sense in this comparison. Nor does bringing up conferences make sense.

And yes i have watched Westbrook this year, he's been great but so was Wade in 2011.

Btw, westbrook missed 15 games himself this season, Wade was more durable.

[Young X]

Besides rebounding, Westbrook doesn't do anything better than 2011 Wade.

[aj1987]

Have you seen the Thunder games in which Westbrook didn't play?

Without him They're 5-11 ffs....ofcourse he's gonna have a super high usage%....who do you expect to carry the team? Enes "worst big-man defender in the league" Kanter....Dion "missed open layups" Waiters?


Btw 2015 Western conference >>>> any eastern confernce season Wade has played in
If you look up career numbers, Wade plays better against the WC than the EC.


TS% while being an important stat...isn't the be-all,end all of a player's importance...just look at Kobe,his FG% were never jaw dropping...yet he was the most feared scorer in his prime...
:biggums:

Look up Kobe's TS. It's pretty much the same as Wade's. Kobe has never been not-efficient. Westbrook is at 53%, IIRC. That's below average efficiency.


Like I said Westbrook has to shoot more....Waiters just had a 2/2/2 performance in 27 minutes last night and he's been terrible ever since he joined....not to forget the many legendary 0 point performances by Singler,Roberston and ofcourse Kendrick Perkins.
How does any of that make him a better player than '11 Wade?

From my earlier post:
1. Better offensive player.
2. Higer IQ.
3. More efficient.
4. Better defender.

Wade was just better than WB.


Westbrook puting up a historic 27/7/9 season....he's carrying the Thunder to the PO's in the toughest western conference in history.
Wade put up 26/6/5/2/1 while sharing 19 touches with another ball dominant player and 14 with Bosh.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Besides rebounding, Westbrook doesn't do anything better than 2011 Wade.

Westbrook has to be one of the GOAT rebounding PG's

Averagin 7.2 rpg this season

[Young X]

Westbrook has to be one of the GOAT rebounding PG's

Averagin 7.2 rpg this seasonNot just PG's, but guards in general. He's averaging those 7 boards in only 34 MPG too.

But besides that, he doesn't help a team in any other area more than '11 Wade.

[swagga]

Have you seen the Thunder games in which Westbrook didn't play?

Without him They're 5-11 ffs....ofcourse he's gonna have a super high usage%....who do you expect to carry the team? Enes "worst big-man defender in the league" Kanter....Dion "missed open layups" Waiters?


Btw 2015 Western conference >>>> any eastern confernce season Wade has played in

wade was one tier above westbrook right now. Wade was in another tier from an efficiency standpoint, much better post offense, smarter off-ball play, better clutch play, much more in control and less prone to stupid mistakes. Also wade is slightly bigger, significantly stronger, and could guard and post up bigger players (he locked up paul george for example, harden another example, could also guard lebron for stretches).

Wade is a superior man defender, you didn't see wade gamble as much as westbrook, much more fundamental. Weakside defense isn't even a discussion, wade being 2nd to jordan in all guards.

Wade also has comparable slashing and creation abilities, so it's not like westbrook is better in that department. Check 2010 wade (one year before) and what he did to boston, a defense that was better than anything besides warriors and grizzlies of the 2015 WC. Hell, check 2011 finals against a GREAT mavs defense.

Not to mention 2011 wade's leadership and intangibles (fmvp, goat finals series, #1 scorer on redemption team) and overall experience, that westbrook can't even sniff and which are really important in the playoffs. They are important because they make a player adapt, and take what the defense gives them, and not force the issue when a teammate has a better matchup (2011 wade vs bulls series). These are things which westbrook does not understand and which decide close series. Westbrook is a very talented loose cannon, but wade could regularly control games against hard playoff opponents and had the game understanding to accommodate lebron on the heat. Westbrook is far from being adaptable or knowledgeable. To say westbrook is in his 7th season, wade was in his 8th is just ignorant, because it doesn't take into account what they actually DID/PROVED in these years.

In conclusion one could argue that westbrook is a shorter, less physically gifted, less composed, lower IQ version of wade. \

stop being a low IQ basketball fan supporting a low iq basketball player.

[BlakFrankWhite]

From my earlier post:
1. Better offensive player.
2. Higer IQ.
3. More efficient.
4. Better defender.

Wade was just better than WB.


Wade put up 26/6/5/2/1 while sharing 19 touches with another ball dominant player and 14 with Bosh.

1.Better offensive player:not really,sure he may have better scoring efficiency...Westbrook's the superior ball distibutor....hence why he's getting double-double with ease....despite playing with scrubs.

2.Higher IQ:yeah ok.

3.More efficient:In scoring yeah,but Westbrook has a PER of 29.6 this season....one of the highest EVER for a guard.

4.Better defender:debateable,Westbrook's carrying the offensive load(unlike 2011 Wade) ..so he isn't able to fully focus on D....but the only time a fully healthy Thunder played GSW this season...Westbrook had Curry on lockdown...hell,the other week he had Wade on lockdown....Westbrook sometimes gambles on D....but he's #1 in steals..

[J Shuttlesworth]

Wade was putting up near similar stats on higher efficiency, but he had his game more in control. We have to consider Wade was still putting up 26 ppg playing next to LeBron, and would probably be getting 29-30 if he was leading his own team. Westbrook never had stats as good as 2011 Wade when he was playing alongside Durant.

Wade's IQ and defense are also considerably better.

[J Shuttlesworth]

And let's not ignore that Wade was doing this with a lower usage rate. 31% vs. 38%

And Westbrook is turning it over 4.7 times per 36 opposed to 3 for Wade

[greatest-ever]

.Westbrook's the superior ball distibutor...
Based on what? Volume of assists? He's averaging 8.7 assists but 4.4 turnovers along with the high usage and ball dominance. I'm not sure how impressive that actually is. Wade could've averaged near 9 assists if he would've handled the ball the way Russell is. I think passing is basically a wash, if anything it's a very slight edge to Westbrook and i don't think it's worth bringing up as an advantage.

[swagga]

1.Better offensive player:not really,sure he may have better scoring efficiency...Westbrook's the superior ball distibutor....hence why he's getting double-double with ease....despite playing with scrubs.

2.Higher IQ:yeah ok.

3.More efficient:In scoring yeah,but Westbrook has a PER of 29.6 this season....one of the highest EVER for a guard.

4.Better defender:debateable,Westbrook's carrying the offensive load(unlike 2011 Wade) ..so he isn't able to fully focus on D....but the only time a fully healthy Thunder played GSW this season...Westbrook had Curry on lockdown...hell,the other week he had Wade on lockdown....Westbrook sometimes gambles on D....but he's #1 in steals..

son it's obvious you didn't even see 2011 wade, not to mention 2009 wade or 2006 wade..... just let it go, 80% of people posting here said the same thing and it's easy to see why, just watch some tape (check 2010/2011 wade per and usage -> same player, check scoring patterns for post usage and super efficiency, check defensive responsabilities and versatility plus help defense, etc).

It might be hard for you to understand this IQ thing since you are just getting your feet wet with this basketball game but it will come in time, don't worry. To give you a head start try to watch for blown plays, tantrums, crazy chucking and horrible turnovers ... you'll see a shitload in westbrook games. That is not high ball-IQ.

Btw, your posts make me :lol. You can't be more than 14-15.

[Milbuck]

It's decently close imho. Peak Wade is easily better. 2011 Wade is better, but it's not as big a margin. If 2011 Wade is a 100, current WB is probably like a 94-95 or something.

The entire argument for Westbrook is based on his numbers. Which are clearly inflated by his usage, no KD, entire offense being run around his constant aggressiveness and total control of everything. There is no way in hell he's putting up 28/7/9 playing with Lebron. Whereas I could totally see 2011 Wade with as much of a green light as current Russ, putting up something like 30/6/8 with great efficiency. There really isn't anything Russ does better than prime Wade aside from rebounding.

Wade's a better scorer, passer, defender, more efficient, less erratic, smarter, etc. He's basically a slightly bigger Westbrook if he played under control, had a way higher BBIQ, better feel for the game, much more efficient, more reliable/consistent. Westbrook honestly isn't that gifted from a skill-perspective, he just plays with such inhuman aggressiveness that opposing teams can't keep up most of the time. It's what makes him look like god sometimes, and a hyper athletic Brandon Knight other times.

It's also why Durant is so important for OKC. For as surreal as Westbrook can be you need someone like Durant...a crazy efficient, much more reliable weapon. Doesn't distort your offense as an individual, can dominate a game directly or indirectly. And most importantly...he's way, waaaay more stable a presence in the clutch. He's made his mistakes but I would take Durant in the clutch 10 times out of 10 over Westbrook. It's just a huge component of the game where Westbrook's style of play is really flawed in. You cannot be an elite closer playing as reckless as him. You need a level of control that Westbrook just doesn't have.

This isn't to say what Westbrook is doing with OKC w/o KD isn't impressive...it's impressive as fvck. Honestly don't think anyone has played better than him this year. I just don't think he's as good as his numbers suggest.

[swagga]

It's decently close imho. Peak Wade is easily better. 2011 Wade is better, but it's not as big a margin. If 2011 Wade is a 100, current WB is probably like a 94-95 or something.

The entire argument for Westbrook is based on his numbers. Which are clearly inflated by his usage, no KD, entire offense being run around his constant aggressiveness and total control of everything. There is no way in hell he's putting up 28/7/9 playing with Lebron. Whereas I could totally see 2011 Wade with as much of a green light as current Russ, putting up something like 30/6/8 with great efficiency. There really isn't anything Russ does better than prime Wade aside from rebounding.

Wade's a better scorer, passer, defender, more efficient, less erratic, smarter, etc. He's basically a slightly bigger Westbrook if he played under control, had a way higher BBIQ, better feel for the game, much more efficient, more reliable/consistent. Westbrook honestly isn't that gifted from a skill-perspective, he just plays with such inhuman aggressiveness that opposing teams can't keep up most of the time. It's what makes him look like god sometimes, and a hyper athletic Brandon Knight other times.

It's also why Durant is so important for OKC. For as surreal as Westbrook can be you need someone like Durant...a crazy efficient, much more reliable weapon. Doesn't distort your offense as an individual, can dominate a game directly or indirectly. And most importantly...he's way, waaaay more stable a presence in the clutch. He's made his mistakes but I would take Durant in the clutch 10 times out of 10 over Westbrook. It's just a huge component of the game where Westbrook's style of play is really flawed in. You cannot be an elite closer playing as reckless as him. You need a level of control that Westbrook just doesn't have.

This isn't to say what Westbrook is doing with OKC w/o KD isn't impressive...it's impressive as fvck. Honestly don't think anyone has played better than him this year. I just don't think he's as good as his numbers suggest.

for the regular season spot on.
for the playoffs where composure and game understanding are critical i'd say
wade-100, westbrook 85.

[Prime_Shaq]

1. Better offensive player.
2. Higer IQ.
3. More efficient.
4. Better defender.
Nah I mean why 2011 version of Wade, why not 2009 or something

[aj1987]

Nah I mean why 2011 version of Wade, why not 2009 or something
2009 Wade >> 2011 Wade and 2011 Wade > 2015 WB. So, 2009 Wade vs 2015 WB isn't exactly a fair comparison.

[TheNaturalWR]

If LeBron never joined Miami, 2011 had a strong chance to be Wade's first and only MVP.

[Crimsonrain777]

'06 - 49.5%
'07 -49.1%
'09 - 49.1%
'11 - 50%

Wade has always been efficient. He actually had WORSE teammates in '09 than what WB has right now. He still managed 49.1%. Just because he had better teammates doesn't make him a worse player than what he was in '09/'10. Even though he shared the ball with LeBron and Bosh a ton, he managed to put up. 26/6/5/2/1 on 58% TS with elite defense.

rat poison

[Jacks3]

Very close. Sight advantage to Wade.

[jrong]

In 2011, Wade put up 26/6/4 next to LeBron (27/7/7). Both of them would have went for 30+/7 + if they weren't paired.

Are we really having this conversation?

Triple doubles are nice. They're helpful. So is 50% FG shooting.