So people still believe their sexual preferences is a choice?

[ArbitraryWater]

Talking to some 'murricans on Twitter... these people still believe you can choose what gender you are attracted to :oldlol:

[Jameerthefear]

you can't choose what u are attracted to imo

[sammichoffate]

you can't choose what u are attracted to imoSure you can, it's just the level of interest varies depending on if you're a horny teenager or a horny adult.

[ArbitraryWater]

couple counter points:

-Please choose to be Gay for a month, hell, a day... (the retort was: No thanks I like being straight)
-Me feeling attracted to Females the first time: Getting a funny feeling while watching late night TV... asked if he just made a decision one day to be attracted to Women... dude really answered with Yes, that was it.

It was PROVEN to it not being a choice one can make... so I don't know why people even try to debate it, just Bigots.

[Budadiiii]

Yes, dumbass. People have different beliefs than you. Shocker!

[The Iron Sheik]

who cares? it's a personal sexual preference. i don't walk around parading a shirt saying i like to choke my bitch while she's cumming. bdsm people don't walk around in spandex handcuffed to each other. just f*ck who you want to f*ck and keep it to yourself.

[sweggeh]

Its not a choice, but you are definitely not born with it.

Also OP you are a stupid homosexual. **** you.

[NumberSix]

couple counter points:

-Please choose to be Gay for a month, hell, a day... (the retort was: No thanks I like being straight)
-Me feeling attracted to Females the first time: Getting a funny feeling while watching late night TV... asked if he just made a decision one day to be attracted to Women... dude really answered with Yes, that was it.

It was PROVEN to it not being a choice one can make... so I don't know why people even try to debate it, just Bigots.
No, that has not been proven.

I'm trying to tread lightly because I'm honestly trying to not be offensive, but I think its important to call out extremism on both sides. The truth is we don't even know what causes a person to be gay. The people that say you're definitely born that way and the people that say you're definitely not born that way both don't know if that's true or not.

[SexSymbol]

Of course it's a choice. The relationship between them has no end result, so it's logical that there are no real genetic differences between a gay man and a straight man. It's a psychological disease that wasn't treated because people in power had it and now it became a fashionable thing. It will go away.
Recently, scientists did tests on two test subjects, both identical twins, one gay, one straight, and there were absolutely no genetic differences.
It's a disease, stop believing the liberal propoganda.

[ArbitraryWater]

Of course it's a choice. The relationship between them has no end result, so it's logical that there are no real genetic differences between a gay man and a straight man. It's a psychological disease that wasn't treated because people in power had it and now it became a fashionable thing. It will go away.
Recently, scientists did tests on two test subjects, both identical twins, one gay, one straight, and there were absolutely no genetic differences.
It's a disease, stop believing the liberal propoganda.

:facepalm


who cares? it's a personal sexual preference. i don't walk around parading a shirt saying i like to choke my bitch while she's cumming. bdsm people don't walk around in spandex handcuffed to each other. just f*ck who you want to f*ck and keep it to yourself.

wrong thread eh? Don't worry, shit happens.

[sammichoffate]

Of course it's a choice. The relationship between them has no end result, so it's logical that there are no real genetic differences between a gay man and a straight man. It's a psychological disease that wasn't treated because people in power had it and now it became a fashionable thing. It will go away.
Recently, scientists did tests on two test subjects, both identical twins, one gay, one straight, and there were absolutely no genetic differences.
It's a disease, stop believing the liberal propoganda.http://fumaga.com/i/the-computer-homo-devil-machine-alan-turing.jpg

[NumberSix]

http://fumaga.com/i/the-computer-homo-devil-machine-alan-turing.jpg
Lol. That HAS to be photoshopped. People can't be that cra....... Actually, yeah they probably can

[Jameerthefear]

http://fumaga.com/i/the-computer-homo-devil-machine-alan-turing.jpg
https://youtu.be/SxJ4VWoeOzs?t=8m56s

[SexSymbol]

So you chose to be straight?

No?

Hmm...
No, it is programmed in your genes, because that's practically the purpose of your life, to **** a woman and make babies.
There is no end result in the relationship between gay people. So it is easily a choice. If ****ing a woman to make babies was exclusive to humans then maybe you'd have an argument, but it's all around the world in pretty much every species.
being gay became fashionable recently, because there's a rising amount of nerds that can't talk to people, get together to play games and eventually touch each others *****.
Hate it all you want, you know it's the truth, scientists have already proven there's no difference genetically between gay and straight twins.

[Siemens]

http://fumaga.com/i/the-computer-homo-devil-machine-alan-turing.jpg

:oldlol:

[SexSymbol]

http://fumaga.com/i/the-computer-homo-devil-machine-alan-turing.jpg
That's funny, even if it doesn't neglect my point at all

[KingBeasley08]

Of course it's a choice. The relationship between them has no end result, so it's logical that there are no real genetic differences between a gay man and a straight man. It's a psychological disease that wasn't treated because people in power had it and now it became a fashionable thing. It will go away.
Recently, scientists did tests on two test subjects, both identical twins, one gay, one straight, and there were absolutely no genetic differences.
It's a disease, stop believing the liberal propoganda.
Nah, it isn't a recent thing. The ancient greeks used to boink each other all the time. hell Socrates and alexander the great both took it up the ass

[Im Still Ballin]

Environment, interactions during crucial development stages

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

you can't choose what u are attracted to imo
Stop tryna come up wit excuses for y to jerk it to 2D photos of 6yo u chichiboi

[SexSymbol]

Nah, it isn't a recent thing. The ancient greeks used to boink each other all the time. hell Socrates and alexander the great both took it up the ass
yeah, I know. Da Vinci is rumored to be a *** too.
But it became a BIG trend recently.

[ArbitraryWater]

No, it is programmed in your genes, because that's practically the purpose of your life, to **** a woman and make babies.
There is no end result in the relationship between gay people. So it is easily a choice. If ****ing a woman to make babies was exclusive to humans then maybe you'd have an argument, but it's all around the world in pretty much every species.
being gay became fashionable recently, because there's a rising amount of nerds that can't talk to people, get together to play games and eventually touch each others *****.
Hate it all you want, you know it's the truth, scientists have already proven there's no difference genetically between gay and straight twins.

You talk about Sex like BangBros, like it doesn't take 2... **** outta here.

If you believe in a specific purpose, I'm guessing it comes from a belief in God / Religion, then I'd much rather prefer that reason to be learning, and evolving as humans.

If thats your reason to choose being straight (since I would ask you to be Gay for a week), then you better plan on making a Baby.. otherwise you make no sense.

You know how you also make no sense?

If your only excuse is because one is supposed to create new life, then just be Gay for a month... if you still deny, because God wouldn't like that or whatever, or thats wrong, then you're bullshitting again, because I doubt you're that religious or care that much about doing something supposedly wrong...

Fact is: You can't... you will never be able to enjoy it, because naturally you're attracted to Females.

[The Iron Sheik]

wrong thread eh? Don't worry, shit happens.

no. they're all sexual preferences, just like being gay. there's no difference except that the people that like to f*ck that way don't have advocate groups.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Why would anyone choose to part of a ridiculed minority?

I think they just want to be with guys for some reason. It could be genetic or they could learn to like guys. I'm not sure and they probably dont know eith

[TheMan]

Of course it's a choice...

I'm still holding out for hope that all the males in the world will one day choose to become gay so they leave me free reigns on all the females :rockon:

[The Iron Sheik]

Fact is: You can't... you will never be able to enjoy it, because naturally you're attracted to Females.

i'm attracted to females because ***** are gross, except mine

[ArbitraryWater]

i'm attracted to females because ***** are gross, except mine

yep, when one is attracted to Women, they usually are grossed out by *****.... thats amazing, groundbreaking info :applause:

can you make a meaningful post for once?

[NumberSix]

So you chose to be straight?

No?

Hmm...
I didn't say anything about choices. I never claimed gays choose to be gay.

[SexSymbol]

You talk about Sex like BangBros, like it doesn't take 2... **** outta here.

If you believe in a specific purpose, I'm guessing it comes from a belief in God / Religion, then I'd much rather prefer that reason to be learning, and evolving as humans.

If thats your reason to choose being straight (since I would ask you to be Gay for a week), then you better plan on making a Baby.. otherwise you make no sense.

You know how you also make no sense?

If your only excuse is because one is supposed to create new life, then just be Gay for a month... if you still deny, because God wouldn't like that or whatever, or thats wrong, then you're bullshitting again, because I doubt you're that religious or care that much about doing something supposedly wrong...

Fact is: You can't... you will never be able to enjoy it, because naturally you're attracted to Females.
Bolded is a laughable statement. It has an end result, because that's how you make babies, that's how you fulfill something that is genetically your life's destiny and purpose.
I hate religion, it's stupid, all of them.
Alright, how come more people have gone back to being straight than stay gay? I believe I've read an article for it, can't seem to find it now, but I think I'll find it eventually.
Your attraction always changes in terms of what do you prefer. You may like boobs more than ass for a week, may like brown nipples instead of purple ones for five years and then change it. Naturally, some people can get more deluded in their sexual preferences than others and eventually try gay things.
There's two types of gays:
Those who chose to be gay because they had their entire surroundings filled with gay agenda or hidden yet obvious gay thoughts and people who chose to be gay, because no girl would sleep with them as they are terrible in talking to them. It's that simple.
There's no fundamental difference between a pedophile and a gay guy, both are attracted to other human beings that they can't reproduce with. You think this statement is insane, but when you actually think about, there's no difference at all, it's just that for now being a pedophile is morally wrong and you get jailed for it, like you did with homosexuals back in the day.
So you and other pro-gay people didn't address the study that I mentioned two times already, this is gonna be a third one, where they tested identical twins, of which one was gay and the other was full on macho straight and there were no genetic differences between them.
Stop listening to bullshit liberal propoganda and think of the facts that are hitting you in the face.

[The Iron Sheik]

yep, when one is attracted to Women, they usually are grossed out by *****.... thats amazing, groundbreaking info :applause:

can you make a meaningful post for once?

sure, right after you

[SexSymbol]

Why would anyone choose to part of a ridiculed minority?

I think they just want to be with guys for some reason. It could be genetic or they could learn to like guys. I'm not sure and they probably dont know eith
Because they are usually ridiculed on daily basis, so even a small group is better than no roof.


I seriously don't have a problem with gay people. But when they want to adopt children and marry it's stupid and just becomes cringe-worthy eventually. They tried to push the pro-gay agenda for so long, they didn't find any biological evidence to suggest that they didn't choose to be this way.
It's a sexual preference, that usually goes away, and there's nothing wrong with that if you want to do it behind closed doors, but to raise children in this environment? Or show it as an example to society in marriages and gay pride parades? That's unacceptable and very, very stupid.

[ArbitraryWater]

:oldlol:

Are you saying no one really is gay? Lmao

Like you said, attraction changes naturally.. you realize it when its happenning. Its not a choice you make, if it is, again, please be Gay for a week.. **** around have a good time, but since you don't want to live like that forever, you can go back to being straight afterwards. :cheers:

[SexSymbol]

:oldlol:

Are you saying no one really is gay? Lmao

Like you said, attraction changes naturally.. you realize it when its happenning. Its not a choice you make, if it is, again, please be Gay for a week.. **** around have a good time, but since you don't want to live like that forever, you can go back to being straight afterwards. :cheers:
Thanks for agreeing, attraction does change, but it changes because you see it in your environment or have fantasies about it. You don't love brown nipples if you have never even seen them, right?
Why would I be gay for a week, that is such a stupid argument, you're shooting empty bullets all over the place, friend, why would I do something that is sexually not acceptable to me? If I'll find a man's butthole attractive one day I might find one to ****, but why would I do it now? There's endless people who do the exact same thing like you mention, **** with men a few times and then get back to their families forever. I just don't understand your argument, which is probably not meant to be understood.
You still haven't addresses the studies I've mentioned, nor have you really addressed anything I've mentioned.

[joe]

Because they are usually ridiculed on daily basis, so even a small group is better than no roof.


I seriously don't have a problem with gay people. But when they want to adopt children and marry it's stupid and just becomes cringe-worthy eventually. They tried to push the pro-gay agenda for so long, they didn't find any biological evidence to suggest that they didn't choose to be this way.
It's a sexual preference, that usually goes away, and there's nothing wrong with that if you want to do it behind closed doors, but to raise children in this environment? Or show it as an example to society in marriages and gay pride parades? That's unacceptable and very, very stupid.

Straight people raise kids in terrible environments all the time. Abuse, infidelity, neglect, molestation, parental bullying, etc etc etc.

Two gay parents have challenges that straight parents don't. That is true. But good parenting is good parenting. There aren't enough adopters to go around.

What you are saying is that a kid is always better off in an orphanage than with two gay parents- even if they are two great parents. Frankly, you are being kind of.. gay about this.

[SexSymbol]

Straight people raise kids in terrible environments all the time. Abuse, infidelity, neglect, molestation, parental bullying, etc etc etc.

Two gay parents have challenges that straight parents don't. That is true. But good parenting is good parenting. There aren't enough adopters to go around.

What you are saying is that a kid is always better off in an orphanage than with two gay parents- even if they are two great parents. Frankly, you are being kind of.. gay about this.
Well that's why it's legally punishable and against the law.
Orphanage sucks on it's own, but when kids realize you have two men as parents you're going to get eaten alive by bullies. Just straight up murdered.

[joe]

Well that's why it's legally punishable and against the law.
Orphanage sucks on it's own, but when kids realize you have two men as parents you're going to get eaten alive by bullies. Just straight up murdered.

You know who doesn't get bullied... kids who are well adjusted. Rarely ever seen that type of kid get bullied.

And for the record, gay people can't adopt because in ten years their kid might be bullied. Gotcha. If that is the case, parents who drive ugly cars shouldn't be able to have kids. And parents who pick out ugly sweaters. And parents who kiss their kids in front of the school. And parents who name their kid ''Richard,'' and then the other kids starting calling him Dickard.

[SexSymbol]

You know who doesn't get bullied... kids who are well adjusted. Rarely ever seen that type of kid get bullied.

And for the record, gay people can't adopt because in ten years their kid might be bullied. Gotcha. If that is the case, parents who drive ugly cars shouldn't be able to have kids. And parents who pick out ugly sweaters. And parents who kiss their kids in front of the school. And parents who name their kid ''Richard,'' and then the other kids starting calling him Dickard.
Another terrible argument.
Nobody ever considered killing themselves because their parent picked out a bad sweater or because the parent owned an ugly car, c'mon now. Having gay parents is a completely new level of bullying that no child should ever experience.
Various studies shown increased physical abuse in same sex couples that have adopted children. Not even taking in the account of molestation and all other sick shit. I've been researching this subject, though kinda vaguely recently, for years now.
I agree that orphanage is a terrible place, but at least they are taught to be normal heterosexuals, instead of having a homosexual environment around them, making them much more prone to choosing to become gay.
You wouldn't let a pedophile adopt a child, you wouldn't let a zoophile adopt an animal, you wouldn't let a necrophiliac work in a morgue. Why let people with disease of the same category adopt children?
Being gay is not in the same sentence as pedophilia just because being pedo isn't socially normal yet, but it's slowly coming, there's even a sort of a pedo party in europe.

[joe]

Another terrible argument.
Nobody ever considered killing themselves because their parent picked out a bad sweater or because the parent owned an ugly car, c'mon now. Having gay parents is a completely new level of bullying that no child should ever experience.
Various studies shown increased physical abuse in same sex couples that have adopted children. Not even taking in the account of molestation and all other sick shit. I've been researching this subject, though kinda vaguely recently, for years now.
I agree that orphanage is a terrible place, but at least they are taught to be normal heterosexuals, instead of having a homosexual environment around them, making them much more prone to choosing to become gay.
You wouldn't let a pedophile adopt a child, you wouldn't let a zoophile adopt an animal, you wouldn't let a necrophiliac work in a morgue. Why let people with disease of the same category adopt children?
Being gay is not in the same sentence as pedophilia just because being pedo isn't socially normal yet, but it's slowly coming, there's even a sort of a pedo party in europe.

Your trolling was pretty decent until right there. You went a little too far.

Anywho. My Dad abused my whole family and flagrantly cheated on my Mom. My gay uncle Bob could have adopted me any time he wanted, and he was an alcoholic. So that is my two cents.

[SexSymbol]

Your trolling was pretty decent until right there. You went a little too far.

Anywho. My Dad abused my whole family and flagrantly cheated on my Mom. My gay uncle Bob could have adopted me any time he wanted, and he was an alcoholic. So that is my two cents.
Alright, your dad should've been punished, he violated the law. If someone is punching my face of course it's better to be in a place where i'm not being punched in the face, even if that place is terrible in all other aspects.
Thanks for calling me a troll and stupid and whatever, it's just that us as a society are so brainwashed by now by all this liberal propoganda, that we actually categorize pedo and gay as a different sexuality, when fundamentally it's pretty much the same.

So the facts are -
It's been proven you aren't born gay.
There's more domestic abuse and sexual abuse in gay families
Children adopted by gay parents are much more prone to the worst kind of bullying.
What's the argument here, c'mon guys...

[ArbitraryWater]

Still amazes me how wrong SexSymbol is on every single topic, weather its this, OTC stuff in general, movies, and of course Basketball.. he's trolling us IMO.

[SexSymbol]

Still amazes me how wrong SexSymbol is on every single topic, weather its this, OTC stuff in general, movies, and of course Basketball.. he's trolling us IMO.
You didn't present any facts, evidence or scientific studies and couldn't offer counter-arguments to anything I've said AND kept repeating same "try being gay for a weak" song that makes no sense.
It's appropriate that your arguing resulted in personal insults and ad hominem. I may not have the most popular opinions, but at least I sincerely defend stuff that I say with actual evidence.

[ArbitraryWater]

"Being gay is a choice!"

Homosexuals just wake up one day saying "I'm gonna like Men from now on" ... right, SexSymbol?

Thats all I'm saying here... it's not a choice.

[joe]

Alright, your dad should've been punished, he :banana: the law. If someone is punching my face of course it's better to be in a place where i'm not being punched in the face, even if that place is terrible in all other aspects.
Thanks for calling me a troll and stupid and whatever, it's just that us as a society are so brainwashed by now by all this liberal propoganda, that we actually categorize pedo and gay as a different sexuality, when fundamentally it's pretty much the same.

So the facts are -
It's been proven you aren't born gay.
There's more domestic abuse and sexual abuse in gay families
Children adopted by gay parents are much more prone to the worst kind of bullying.
What's the argument here, c'mon guys...

I didn't call you stupid, I believe you are a troll and frankly, I applaud the effort. I just think you went slightly too far earlier and it blew up your scheme. You need to really hook the other person into getting mad, and you can't do that if your arguments are so preposterous that they aren't believable. I might have really gotten riled up in this debate if you had just kept it a little more subtle.

Even if you are being honest, that doesn't make you stupid. I think it makes you blinded by your aversion to homosexuality. You know, Bobby Fischer was anti-semetic at the end of his life. One of the greatest chess geniuses in history. Hatred and dislike does not care how smart you are. And it can make you say some pretty silly things. It can make you actively seek out studies and facts that support your opinion..

There was a study that linked the amount of testosterone a baby is exposed to in the womb with homosexuality. If your index finger is longer than your ring finger, you were likely exposed to less testosterone. This is common in girls and also in gay men.

That is also believed to be why the youngest of multiple sons is more likely to be gay; because Mothers tend to produce less testosterone for each baby. By the 3rd or 4th son, they might be exposed to such little testosterone that they are biologically more likely to be gay.

There is also the good advice: give science time. Don't be the guy in the 1930's who believes cigarettes are good for you, know what I'm saying? Just because definitive proof has not been found, does not mean it won't be found.

[97 bulls]

It is a choice. A man that is attracted to another man today, may choose to be with a woman tommorow.

In order for a person to have no choice in a matter, they must nit be able to make a decision on it. For example. I have no choice but to be black. I had no choice but to have been born a male.. I have no choice in who my brothers and sisters are, I have no choice in who my fathered and mothered me. Hell we can't even choose our kids.

Who you choose to have sex with is definitely a choice. The real question is whether or not it's morally wrong.

[Jameerthefear]

You didn't present any facts, evidence or scientific studies and couldn't offer counter-arguments to anything I've said AND kept repeating same "try being gay for a weak" song that makes no sense.
It's appropriate that your arguing resulted in personal insults and ad hominem. I may not have the most popular opinions, but at least I sincerely defend stuff that I say with actual evidence.
if u think people choose to be gay because of attention or whatever is it the same for all attractions? i.e. do you think pedos choose to be pedos for the same reason?
ur logic is dumb

[ArbitraryWater]

It is a choice. A man that is attracted to another man today, man choose to be with a woman tommorow.

In order for a person to have no choice in a matter, they must nit be able to make a decision on it. For example. I have no choice but to be black. I had no choice but to have been born a male.. I have no choice in who my brothers and sisters are, I have no choice in who my fathered and mothered me. Hell we can't even choose our kids.

Who you choose to have sex with is definitely a choice. The real question is whether or not it's morally wrong.

Thats not really what its about... when people are Gay, they enjoy it.... just having Sex with one is always possible, fact is, if you're straight, having Sex with a man will be like almost traumatizing lol. You can't choose that attraction, it won't come...

Homosexuality is a feeling inside you, you can't choose to have it.

Like for straight men, craving *****..

I've heard Women say they wish it was a choice, since their requirements for males are usually plenty, they'd have a much larger variety to choose from with Women too (btw, naturally aren't as grossed out by Female genital parts as Men).

[Jameerthefear]

It is a choice. A man that is attracted to another man today, may choose to be with a woman tommorow.

In order for a person to have no choice in a matter, they must nit be able to make a decision on it. For example. I have no choice but to be black. I had no choice but to have been born a male.. I have no choice in who my brothers and sisters are, I have no choice in who my fathered and mothered me. Hell we can't even choose our kids.

Who you choose to have sex with is definitely a choice. The real question is whether or not it's morally wrong.
that isn't the question. it's sexual attraction

[warriorfan]

jameer cant help it that he likes cartoon porn he was born that way

[plowking]

Your title doesn't help your case OP.

"Preference" somewhat indicates there is a choice.

[97 bulls]

Thats not really what its shout... when people are Gay, they enjoy it.... just having Sex with one is always possible, fact is, if you're straight, having Sex with a man will be like almost traumatizing lol. You can't choose that attraction, it won't come...

Homosexuality is a feeling inside you, you can't choose to have it.

Like for straight men, craving *****..

I've heard Women say they wish it was a choice, since their requirements for males are usually plenty, they'd have a much larger variety to choose from with Women too (btw, naturally aren't as grossed out by Female genital parts as Men).
You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with enjoyment. I love women but that doesn't mean id enjoy having sex with a 400lbs woman. Throw enjoyment out of it. Its about what you choose to do. When you say homosexual have no choice but to choose be homosexual, thats an oxymoron.

Like I said. Homosexuals have the option to change who theyre going to have sex with. It is something they can control.

I think youre confusing this with a preference.

[Bandito]

No, it is programmed in your genes, because that's practically the purpose of your life, to **** a woman and make babies.
There is no end result in the relationship between gay people. So it is easily a choice. If ****ing a woman to make babies was exclusive to humans then maybe you'd have an argument, but it's all around the world in pretty much every species.
being gay became fashionable recently, because there's a rising amount of nerds that can't talk to people, get together to play games and eventually touch each others *****.
Hate it all you want, you know it's the truth, scientists have already proven there's no difference genetically between gay and straight twins.
Gay has been in society since the Greeks of old.

[97 bulls]

that isn't the question. it's sexual attraction
Ok. Then answer this question. Why do many homosexual people choose to be with a person attempting to look like the opposite sex? That makes absolutely noooooooo sense to me. If you're attracted to a man, why choose to date a man thats trying to be a woman?

Ti be honest, the homosexual community is full of confused individuals.

[NumberSix]

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with enjoyment. I love women but that doesn't mean id enjoy having sex with a 400lbs woman. Throw enjoyment out of it. Its about what you choose to do. When you say homosexual have no choice but to choose be homosexual, thats an oxymoron.

Like I said. Homosexuals have the option to change who theyre going to have sex with. It is something they can control.

I think youre confusing this with a preference.
Why does it matter if it is or isn't a choice? Even if we grant you that it is indeed a choice, that would still be each individuals choice to make, isn't it?

[LJJ]

You're missing the point. It has nothing to do with enjoyment. I love women but that doesn't mean id enjoy having sex with a 400lbs woman. Throw enjoyment out of it. Its about what you choose to do. When you say homosexual have no choice but to choose be homosexual, thats an oxymoron.

Like I said. Homosexuals have the option to change who theyre going to have sex with. It is something they can control.

I think youre confusing this with a preference.

You are confused. What makes you gay is being attracted to the same sex.

That's what is being discussed. That is not a choice.

[97 bulls]

if u think people choose to be gay because of attention or whatever is it the same for all attractions? i.e. do you think pedos choose to be pedos for the same reason?
ur logic is dumb
This just goes ti show how twisted our society is. Why excuse homosexual behavior as being uncontrollable, but then say a person that is attracted to children should be able to control their urges?

And just for the record. Pedophiles are sick individuals and have no place in our society.

[joe]

This just goes ti show how twisted our society is. Why excuse homosexual behavior as being uncontrollable, but then say a person that is attracted to children should be able to control their urges?

And just for the record. Pedophiles are sick individuals and have no place in our society.

Because homosexuality is between two consenting people and pedophilia is not, smarty pants.

[Jameerthefear]

This just goes ti show how twisted our society is. Why excuse homosexual behavior as being uncontrollable, but then say a person that is attracted to children should be able to control their urges?

And just for the record. Pedophiles are sick individuals and have no place in our society.
I agree with you except for that last part. The issue is that people can't step out of their comfort zones.

[JohnFreeman]

I think being a lesbian is more of a choice then being a knob jockey, but who cares really.

[Jameerthefear]

Because homosexuality is between two consenting people and pedophilia is not, smarty pants.
You're getting off subject. We are talking about attractions.

[dude77]

what about people who from a young age have said they were attracted to the same sex .. without really having much influence from anything .. it's not a choice .. something genetic or something in the brain maybe ?

[JohnFreeman]

what about people who from a young age have said they were attracted to the same sex .. without really having much influence from anything .. it's not a choice .. something genetic or something in the brain maybe ?
Scientists are looking for a "gay gene"

[97 bulls]

You are confused. What makes you gay is being attracted to the same sex.

That's what is being discussed. That is not a choice.
The title of this thread is.........

"So people still believe their sexual preference is a choice?"

[Im Still Ballin]

'White people are less likely to be gay': Poll reveals African-American community has highest percentage of 'LGBT' adults in U.S.
Gallup survey, based on interviews with more than 121,000 people, showed that 3.4% of U.S. adults were lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT)
Highest proportion in black community, at 4.6%, followed by Asians (4.3%), Hispanics (4%) and Caucasians (3.2%)
Poll found 44% of LGBT adults were Democratic, and 13% Republican


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220120/White-people-likely-gay-Huge-study-reveals-highest-proportion-homosexual-people-African-American-community.html#ixzz3VpRf4hGZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

[JohnFreeman]

'White people are less likely to be gay': Poll reveals African-American community has highest percentage of 'LGBT' adults in U.S.
Gallup survey, based on interviews with more than 121,000 people, showed that 3.4% of U.S. adults were lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT)
Highest proportion in black community, at 4.6%, followed by Asians (4.3%), Hispanics (4%) and Caucasians (3.2%)
Poll found 44% of LGBT adults were Democratic, and 13% Republican


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220120/White-people-likely-gay-Huge-study-reveals-highest-proportion-homosexual-people-African-American-community.html#ixzz3VpRf4hGZ
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
https://38.media.tumblr.com/b0cbfda1713b87ef3c255b5bca78f896/tumblr_n4h5v3IQmx1tsypcbo1_400.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

What is leading African-Americans and Asians towards homosexuality more so than Caucasians?

Is it something genetic? In their make-up?

Or is it their culture? The society they grew up and live in?

Who knows, although if it were genetic; that you don't have a choice regarding sexual preference; then clearly blacks and asians are more biologically inclined to be a homosexual

?

[JohnFreeman]

Hitting them with some home truths Mack

[97 bulls]

Because homosexuality is between two consenting people and pedophilia is not, smarty pants.
I understand that. Im concentrating on the discussion as to the distinction between a controllable, and and uncontrollablee urge.

[97 bulls]

what about people who from a young age have said they were attracted to the same sex .. without really having much influence from anything .. it's not a choice .. something genetic or something in the brain maybe ?
If youre referring to those that say that at the tended age of 5 or 6 they had a sexual attraction to the same sex, then thats hogwash. No human that young developes a sexual attraction.

Now I'm not arguing genetics. Im sure it is. But why are some people willing to kill when agered and some not willing to take it that far? We control our urges.

[ArbitraryWater]

Playing around with the wording now.. are you too retarded to understand it, 97 bulls? So far you've horribly missed the topic, and proven great ignorance.

[dude77]

If youre referring to those that say that at the tended age of 5 or 6 they had a sexual attraction to the same sex, then thats hogwash. No human that young developes a sexual attraction.

Now I'm not arguing genetics. Im sure it is. But why are some people willing to kill when agered and some not willing to take it that far? We control our urges.

not lustful sexual attraction but kids do start having an affinity for certain people .. I know I 'liked' females as far back as kindergarten .. that's nothing new I'm saying because I know it happens to other people .. and I'm sure that's tied into the eventual sexual attraction that follows

[LJJ]

Gay peeps also have bigger *****. real talk.

[joe]

If youre referring to those that say that at the tended age of 5 or 6 they had a sexual attraction to the same sex, then thats hogwash. No human that young developes a sexual attraction.

Now I'm not arguing genetics. Im sure it is. But why are some people willing to kill when agered and some not willing to take it that far? We control our urges.

So I don't really see your point. Do you think gay people should control their urges? Are you saying that some pedophiles simply can't control their urges? I am not sure you are going for.

[97 bulls]

not lustful sexual attraction but kids do start having an affinity for certain people .. I know I 'liked' females as far back as kindergarten .. that's nothing new I'm saying because I know it happens to other people .. and I'm sure that's tied into the eventual sexual attraction that follows
Thats true. But what those people are referring to is a lustful attraction to the opposite sex as a five year old

[christian1923]

It's a choice. Everything we do is a choice. Some choose to take weenie in the butt

[ArbitraryWater]

It's a choice. Everything we do is a choice. Some choose to take weenie in the butt

Flat World and Sexuality is such a simple thing :) All so nice and easy

[97 bulls]

So I don't really see your point. Do you think gay people should control their urges? Are you saying that some pedophiles simply can't control their urges? I am not sure you are going for.
No. Im saying don't excuse their lifestyle as being uncontrollable. It's a choice. Cuz when you do, you go down a slippery slope.

[97 bulls]

Fine it's a choice that doesn't hurt anyone or have any affect on anyone whatsoever unless you're really fvking dumb
Right. But God says its morally wrong, people know this, and thus try to justify this by saying they have no control over their decision when it comes to this.

[dude77]

But God says

http://i.imgur.com/arvPckr.gif

[Milbuck]

Right. But God says its morally wrong, people know this, and thus try to justify this by saying they have no control over their decision when it comes to this.
People can say and do things without constantly basing it around God. We have that capability. Saying your sexuality isn't a choice isn't a rebuttal to religious morality.

[JEFFERSON MONEY]

You'd be surprised what humans can do if they force themselves to.

Antoine Dobson had kids.

[joe]

No. Im saying don't excuse their lifestyle as being uncontrollable. It's a choice. Cuz when you do, you go down a slippery slope.

Your logical pathway in this discussion is off course.

Let's make two claims. We will assume both of these claims are true:

-Homosexuality is not a choice; it is a genetic factor.

-Pedophilia is not a choice; it is a genetic factor.

Neither of those statements say anything about the persons lifestyle. Just because those statements are true, it does not make these statements true:

-A homosexual cannot help himself but engage in gay sex.
-A pedophile cannot help himself but to molest children.

Choosing to have gay sex, or choosing to molest a child, are just that; choices. Nobody has to have sex, they choose to. But we do not choose our sexual orientation.

There is no slippery slope here.

The morality of the issue is a separate discussion. Is gay sex immoral? I don't believe so, but that depends on how you define your morals. I believe in the concept of negative rights. Under that concept, having a religious qualm with someones behavior does not give you the right to stop that behavior, as long as they are not harming others. There is not one objection to homosexuality that, to me, is sufficient. It comes across as mostly bigotry and personal opinion. If you think homosexuality is wrong, that is your business. I have no problem with you feeling that way. But two consenting gay adults are not harming anyone, so you have no right to interfere with their lives. The same cannot be said about a pedophile. That is the difference.

[97 bulls]

Your logical pathway in this discussion is off course.

Let's make two claims. We will assume both of these claims are true:

-Homosexuality is not a choice; it is a genetic factor.

-Pedophilia is not a choice; it is a genetic factor.

Neither of those statements say anything about the persons lifestyle. Just because those statements are true, it does not make these statements true:

-A homosexual cannot help himself but engage in gay sex.
-A pedophile cannot help himself but to molest children.

Choosing to have gay sex, or choosing to molest a child, are just that; choices. Nobody has to have sex, they choose to. But we do not choose our sexual orientation.

There is no slippery slope here.

The morality of the issue is a separate discussion. Is gay sex immoral? I don't believe so, but that depends on how you define your morals. I believe in the concept of negative rights. Under that concept, having a religious qualm with someones behavior does not give you the right to stop that behavior, as long as they are not harming others. There is not one objection to homosexuality that, to me, is sufficient. It comes across as mostly bigotry and personal opinion. If you think homosexuality is wrong, that is your business. I have no problem with you feeling that way. But two consenting gay adults are not harming anyone, so you have no right to interfere with their lives. The same cannot be said about a pedophile. That is the difference.
Here's the problem. Live and let live right? As long as no one gets hurt in the process. So lets say. A 12 year old girl has a crush on her math teacher. I say 12 because thats roughly the age where females are able to have children give or take. And thus able to be married in some societies even today. You're gonna tell me that since its consensual that its ok? And please dont start with consenting adults cuz my reply would be who are you to say what constitutes an "adult" and not? You basically want society to live and let live so long as it conforms to your personal views. Thats hypocritical.

And this is what I mean by a slippery slope. I was a kid once. And even at13 there were women that worked at my school that I would've eagerly been willing to have sex with or give consent. But because YOU don't feel im ready then I gotta miss out? You dont see the folly in your reasoning?

Just come out and say what you feel. Live and let live so long as it doesn't hurt anyone, and infringe on your personal views.

[97 bulls]

I can't believe you guys continue o spout the nonsense that your sexual orientation isn't a choice. I choose to be heterosexual. And at any time I can choose to be homosexual. It's a preference.

[97 bulls]

People can say and do things without constantly basing it around God. We have that capability. Saying your sexuality isn't a choice isn't a rebuttal to religious morality.
No. But I do think its the reason as to why this situation or conversation arises so much.

[97 bulls]

...God isn't real though
Sure he is.

[NumberSix]

Dude said it's proven that it's not a choice

You said it has been proven

Implying you think it's possible that it is a choice

You then said it's unknown if you're born that way or its environmental which is fair but it's definitely not a choice.

But whatever the reason is, and even if it was a choice... it doesn't matter.
You're right. I don't know why, but I thought the quote I bolded said "it's been proven people are born gay". Brain fart on my behalf. My mistake.

[joe]

Here's the problem. Live and let live right? As long as no one gets hurt in the process. So lets say. A 12 year old girl has a crush on her math teacher. I say 12 because thats roughly the age where females are able to have children give or take. And thus able to be married in some societies even today. You're gonna tell me that since its consensual that its ok? And please dont start with consenting adults cuz my reply would be who are you to say what constitutes an "adult" and not? You basically want society to live and let live so long as it conforms to your personal views. Thats hypocritical.

And this is what I mean by a slippery slope. I was a kid once. And even at13 there were women that worked at my school that I would've eagerly been willing to have sex with or give consent. But because YOU don't feel im ready then I gotta miss out? You dont see the folly in your reasoning?

Just come out and say what you feel. Live and let live so long as it doesn't hurt anyone, and infringe on your personal views.

At what age a person becomes an adult is a very interesting topic. I have read a lot on the topic and of course, there is nothing concrete about it. It is philosophy, it is reasoning, it is logic.

I do believe that up until a certain point, a person is not able to claim responsibility for themselves. We see that clearly in babies; they are completely reliant on older humans to take care of them. How about at 8 years old? Most 8 year olds are still heavily reliant on adults. At that stage, we cannot call this person a consenting party in a sexual act with another adult. They do not have the understanding of the world to make that kind of decision. It is the same reason that they cannot apply for bank loans or drive a car. The implications of such a decision are beyond their realm of reasoning and understanding.

So, your financial status and your understanding of the world around you play a part.

So then, how about a 30 year old that still lives at home, and is reliant on his parents to get by? At that point, I think another factor kicks in; brain development. Biologically, your brain is finished developing around your mid-20s. By your early 20s, much of your brain is finished developing. Those ages, at the very most, are the hard cut off. At that point, failing some mental handicap, you are an adult.

So that leaves us with the gray area: the teen years. When is a person capable of making their own decision? To me, that is between them and their parents. A person at 15 is generally not mature enough to take care of themselves entirely. Yet, they do understand the world to a greater degree than an 8 year old. I think this is one of those gray area laws that I would rather be handled by families and small governments (like townships or states). If a family is okay with their 15 year old dating an adult, then I am okay with it.

However, keep in mind, a pedophile, by definition, is someone who is attracted to children who have yet to hit puberty. At no point is a person at that age rational enough to be considered an adult. At no point do they have the reasoning to understand the implications of sex with an adult. So no, pedophilia can never, in my opinion, by considered consensual.

So what about your 12 year old girl who has a crush on her math teacher? At that age, she most likely does not have the understanding of the world to be an equal party in that relationship. She is still under the domain of her parents, both financially and physically. Her brain will still require another 12 years of development before it is fully formed. The consequences of her choices, such as pregnancy, will fall on many other people besides her, mostly her parents. For those reasons, she cannot be considered an adult, and thus cannot consent to sex with an adult teacher.

[Milbuck]

I can't believe you guys continue o spout the nonsense that your sexual orientation isn't a choice. I choose to be heterosexual. And at any time I can choose to be homosexual. It's a preference.
Decent bait.

[Batz]

If you're waking up every morning and convincing yourself to be straight, you're gay homie.
rekt.

[97 bulls]

If you're waking up every morning and convincing yourself to be straight, you're gay homie.
I personally think theres something mentally wrong with homosexual people. Its another aspect that unfortunately some of us humans must fight to overcome. And can also be broken.

[poido123]

All you mutha f.ckers are gay.




https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpsb9ogtU61qft298o1_500.gif

[Bandito]

It has not be proven genes has anything to do with sexual attraction while it has been proven it is more phsycological. Not saying it is a disease though.

[warriorfan]

All you mutha f.ckers are gay.




https://33.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpsb9ogtU61qft298o1_500.gif


:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

At what age a person becomes an adult is a very interesting topic. I have read a lot on the topic and of course, there is nothing concrete about it. It is philosophy, it is reasoning, it is logic.
Im not advocating allowing kids to be able to make those types of decisions. Its strictly for the sake of argument.


I do believe that up until a certain point, a person is not able to claim responsibility for themselves. We see that clearly in babies; they are completely reliant on older humans to take care of them. How about at 8 years old? Most 8 year olds are still heavily reliant on adults. At that stage, we cannot call this person a consenting party in a sexual act with another adult. They do not have the understanding of the world to make that kind of decision. It is the same reason that they cannot apply for bank loans or drive a car. The implications of such a decision are beyond their realm of reasoning and understanding.
Right. But see, your typical 8 year old is not looking to have sex. Their hormones haven't kicked in yet.

So, your financial status and your understanding of the world around you play a part.

So then, how about a 30 year old that still lives at home, and is reliant on his parents to get by? At that point, I think another factor kicks in; brain development. Biologically, your brain is finished developing around your mid-20s. By your early 20s, much of your brain is finished developing. Those ages, at the very most, are the hard cut off. At that point, failing some mental handicap, you are an adult.
I think the human brain is fully developed alot earlier than 20. Now learing? Thats another thing. I think what you're talking about is experience.



So that leaves us with the gray area: the teen years. When is a person capable of making their own decision? To me, that is between them and their parents. A person at 15 is generally not mature enough to take care of themselves entirely. Yet, they do understand the world to a greater degree than an 8 year old. I think this is one of those gray area laws that I would rather be handled by families and small governments (like townships or states). If a family is okay with their 15 year old dating an adult, then I am okay with it.
Theres 30 year olds that are fully incapable of making mature decisions. Some people never figure it out. And in my 40 years, ive yet to come across an 18 year old that I felt was really ready to date much less have children. I'm just your argument against you. If its all about consent, then why have such restrictions?


However, keep in mind, a pedophile, by definition, is someone who is attracted to children who have yet to hit puberty. At no point is a person at that age rational enough to be considered an adult. At no point do they have the reasoning to understand the implications of sex with an adult. So no, pedophilia can never, in my opinion, by considered consensual.

Im not advocating pedophilia. I assume your an adult. We both know that your typical 8 year old isnt even thinking about a sexual relationship with an adult. Now 12? 13? 14. I don't think you could offer a 12 year old some candy in exchange for......


So what about your 12 year old girl who has a crush on her math teacher? At that age, she most likely does not have the understanding of the world to be an equal party in that relationship. She is still under the domain of her parents, both financially and physically. Her brain will still require another 12 years of development before it is fully formed. The consequences of her choices, such as pregnancy, will fall on many other people besides her, mostly her parents. For those reasons, she cannot be considered an adult, and thus cannot consent to sex with an adult teacher.
This rule applies for 18, 19, even people in their 20s. To be honest, theres very few people that are mentally, financially, capable of raising a child. Hell my daughter is 19 and I still support her. Ill even take it a step further. Based on your assesment, even adults shouldn't be able to have a relationship with adults much older than them based on experience right?


This still goes back to my main point. Using the consenting adults argument in an effort to justify homosexuality is wrong.

[Smoke117]

Billions of people believe there is an all seeing, all knowing boogey man in an imaginary paradise in the clouds...

That's all I have to say about what human beings are capable of believing.

[dude77]

I personally think theres something mentally wrong with homosexual people. Its another aspect that unfortunately some of us humans must fight to overcome. And can also be broken.

if you think there's something mentally wrong with gays then you have to agree that it is not a choice to be gay

[dunksby]

People who think they have a choice are probably bisexual.

[joe]

Im not advocating allowing kids to be able to make those types of decisions. Its strictly for the sake of argument.


Right. But see, your typical 8 year old is not looking to have sex. Their hormones haven't kicked in yet.

I think the human brain is fully developed alot earlier than 20. Now learing? Thats another thing. I think what you're talking about is experience.



Theres 30 year olds that are fully incapable of making mature decisions. Some people never figure it out. And in my 40 years, ive yet to come across an 18 year old that I felt was really ready to date much less have children. I'm just your argument against you. If its all about consent, then why have such restrictions?


Im not advocating pedophilia. I assume your an adult. We both know that your typical 8 year old isnt even thinking about a sexual relationship with an adult. Now 12? 13? 14. I don't think you could offer a 12 year old some candy in exchange for......


This rule applies for 18, 19, even people in their 20s. To be honest, theres very few people that are mentally, financially, capable of raising a child. Hell my daughter is 19 and I still support her. Ill even take it a step further. Based on your assesment, even adults shouldn't be able to have a relationship with adults much older than them based on experience right?


This still goes back to my main point. Using the consenting adults argument in an effort to justify homosexuality is wrong.

No, your brain is literally not done developing until you are in your 20s. Your frontal lobes, the part of your brain most responsible for things like critical thinking and what we might think of as maturity, undergoes heavy development still in your late teens and early 20s.


This rule applies for 18, 19, even people in their 20s. To be honest, theres very few people that are mentally, financially, capable of raising a child. Hell my daughter is 19 and I still support her. Ill even take it a step further. Based on your assesment, even adults shouldn't be able to have a relationship with adults much older than them based on experience right?

No, we cannot stop adults from engaging in relationships with older, more experienced adults. Adults have the freedom to do as they choose, so long as it doesn't violate the freedom of others. If you follow that rule, everything becomes pretty simple. We can date who we want, but we cannot force others to date who we want them to date. We can pursue risky behaviors if we want, but we can't force others to pursue risky behaviors.

Adults, unlike children, are responsible for their own decisions. They are biologically developed, specifically in brain function. They have spent ample time in the world and with other people. They can do as they choose, so long as their choices do not interfere with our freedom to do as we choose.

That is my philosophy. And yeah, it is wrong when someone is taken advantage of by a more experienced person. But it is not a violation of rights if both of them are consenting adults. It is just one person being tricked. Big difference.


This still goes back to my main point. Using the consenting adults argument in an effort to justify homosexuality is wrong.

You are the one who brought pedophilia into this discussion. You argued that homosexuals don't have to act on their sexual orientation, just as we expect pedophiles not to act on their sexual orientation. I claimed that homosexuals have no reason NOT to act on their sexuality, if their relationship is between two consenting adults. I then discussed why pedophilia is not between two consenting adults, thus blowing up your comparison. So no, the consenting adults argument was not wrong. It was and is exactly the point that you are missing.

I am not using consent to justify homosexuality. My justification for accepting homosexuality is that two homosexuals being together has no effect on my life. They are not impeding on the rights of anyone else, and they are not causing harm or endangering anyone. Even if I had religious or moral qualms with their lifestyle, which I don't, I would still hold the same position. Because this is not about my personal feelings, it is about rights and morality- two things which are both violated in a pedophile-child relationship.

[poido123]

In my experience, it was an age issue.



My age preference was my undoing, not sexual preference.

[Dresta]

The thing is, people are happy to take conclusions like this and apply it to homosexuality, but because they don't like the consequences, they don't bother to pursue their logic to its logical conclusions, which is that sexual orientation is no more a choice than anything else is a choice.

Also, because people love waving their moral superiority in the faces of others, they ignore that the actual Christian argument has nothing to do with 'homophobia' (the one made by intelligent Christians rather than the rabble who go out with placards btw - though they're not really much different or any less intelligent than the OWS clowns tbh), and everything to do with their belief that non-procreational sex is immoral, a self-indulgent pleasure that is better reigned in and controlled. It's all about resisting temptation (i.e. transient, temporal pleasure), because it is believed to be destructive in the long-run.

The way we now chastise these people for their moral beliefs (with a moral - and thus arbitrary - belief of our own) is profoundly intolerant, and a sign of the banality of people who make moral impositions on people. I don't want Christians shoving their morality down everyone's throats, but the same goes for the moral orthodoxy of the times, which has been embraced with such fanaticism by people who think they aren't religious and are free from faith :roll:

[97 bulls]

if you think there's something mentally wrong with gays then you have to agree that it is not a choice to be gay
Not mentally wrong as if theyre retarded. But its a personal problem like a person that has a problem procrastinating, or a person that has an anger management problem. Why are some men able to control their anger enough to not beat oj their wives and others can't?

[97 bulls]

No, we cannot stop adults from engaging in relationships with older, more experienced adults. Adults have the freedom to do as they choose, so long as it doesn't violate the freedom of others. If you follow that rule, everything becomes pretty simple. We can date who we want, but we cannot force others to date who we want them to date. We can pursue risky behaviors if we want, but we can't force others to pursue risky behaviors.

Adults, unlike children, are responsible for their own decisions. They are biologically developed, specifically in brain function. They have spent ample time in the world and with other people. They can do as they choose, so long as their choices do not interfere with our freedom to do as we choose.

That is my philosophy. And yeah, it is wrong when someone is taken advantage of by a more experienced person. But it is not a violation of rights if both of them are consenting adults. It is just one person being tricked. Big difference.
But isn't your argument basically that minors can't make their own decisions because theyre not experienced enough? And isn't your argument basically that homosexuality isnt wrong because it doesnt hurt anyone? You don't think manipulating a person due to being more experienced isn't hurting one of them? Big difference?????? Come on.

And again, is 18 really a good age to say a person is capable of making their own decisions? Because as I said before and since you didnt debate it, 18 year olds are not finacially or mentally ready to make good decisions for themselves. Its just some arbitrary age established to determine a law.




You are the one who brought pedophilia into this discussion. You argued that homosexuals don't have to act on their sexual orientation, just as we expect pedophiles not to act on their sexual orientation. I claimed that homosexuals have no reason NOT to act on their sexuality, if their relationship is between two consenting adults. I then discussed why pedophilia is not between two consenting adults, thus blowing up your comparison. So no, the consenting adults argument was not wrong. It was and is exactly the point that you are missing.

I am not using consent to justify homosexuality. My justification for accepting homosexuality is that two homosexuals being together has no effect on my life. They are not impeding on the rights of anyone else, and they are not causing harm or endangering anyone. Even if I had religious or moral qualms with their lifestyle, which I don't, I would still hold the same position. Because this is not about my personal feelings, it is about rights and morality- two things which are both violated in a pedophile-child relationship.
Ill even take it further. If its true that a person knows their homosexual at an early age, then why try to stop them engaging in that type of behavior.

[LJJ]

If you're waking up every morning and convincing yourself to be straight, you're gay homie.

Jokes, but I think this is seriously the case with Bulls, given his arguments and train of thought. Maybe one day he will accept himself and be happy.

[Kblaze8855]

The idea that you can choose what you desire is ****ing idiotic. You can choose to act on it or not. But what is in your head...its just there. To quote a fairly awful movie with a decent cult following if "Your wang is...hugafied by a man...and not a lady" that isnt anyones decision.

I remember looking at a girl when I was in the 3rd grade....I wouldnt have known what to do with her....but I wanted her. There were gay kids even then. In my boy scout troop we had 2 brothers....I found them on facebook now decades later....openly gay.

They were gay then. Just didnt act on it...like the rest of us were straight...and didnt act on it. That was just...in them. And they didnt really...talk gay. Have the gay "lisp". None of that. They never said anything gay...we just...thought they were. And they were.

Its hard to explain without getting the PC police on you...but some kids are just....gay. Gay from the jump.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVK_OqyUzk

^
Those kids are real.

[ArbitraryWater]

Good seing the majority here being sensible :applause:

That Curb Your Enthusiasm video :roll: :roll: :roll:

[97 bulls]

The idea that you can choose what you desire is ****ing idiotic. You can choose to act on it or not. But what is in your head...its just there. To quote a fairly awful movie with a decent cult following if "Your wang is...hugafied by a man...and not a lady" that isnt anyones decision.

I remember looking at a girl when I was in the 3rd grade....I wouldnt have known what to do with her....but I wanted her. There were gay kids even then. In my boy scout troop we had 2 brothers....I found them on facebook now decades later....openly gay.

They were gay then. Just didnt act on it...like the rest of us were straight...and didnt act on it. That was just...in them. And they didnt really...talk gay. Have the gay "lisp". None of that. They never said anything gay...we just...thought they were. And they were.

Its hard to explain without getting the PC police on you...but some kids are just....gay. Gay from the jump.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVK_OqyUzk

^
Those kids are real.
Can't say I disagree. But again, to say a person can't overcome it and thus its OK becsuse of it is where I disagree. We struggle with things in our head everyday. What I think is silly is the mind set that a 4 year-old knows that he or she is gay.

Thats video you showed is disturbing. Yes there are kids like that, but that kid did not look comfortable doing that scene. Why did the kid have to act gay? Was that relevant to the episode?

[ArbitraryWater]

Can't say I disagree. But again, to say a person can't overcome it and thus its OK becsuse of it is where I disagree. We struggle with things in our head everyday. What I think is silly is the mind set that a 4 year-old knows that he or she is gay.

Thats video you showed is disturbing. Yes there are kids like that, but that kid did not look comfortable doing that scene. Why did the kid have to act gay? Was that relevant to the episode?

It's really not :oldlol:

You still think there's something wrong with being gay, THATS the disturbing thing here...

[SexSymbol]

It's really not :oldlol:

You still think there's something wrong with being gay, THATS the disturbing thing here...
But you still didn't present any facts or smart argumentated opinions on why is it good for those people and why isn't it wrong aside from insulting all people that don't agree with you.
I maybe wrong on the subject, I don't know, but you are seriously a stupid individual.

[joe]

But isn't your argument basically that minors can't make their own decisions because theyre not experienced enough? And isn't your argument basically that homosexuality isnt wrong because it doesnt hurt anyone? You don't think manipulating a person due to being more experienced isn't hurting one of them? Big difference?????? Come on.

And again, is 18 really a good age to say a person is capable of making their own decisions? Because as I said before and since you didnt debate it, 18 year olds are not finacially or mentally ready to make good decisions for themselves. Its just some arbitrary age established to determine a law.


No, you are ignoring what I am saying to suit your point. I did not say that manipulating a person is not hurting them. Of course it is. But an adult in the world has a right to pursue relationships with other adults. We are not allowed to stop them from doing so, that would be impeding on their autonomy as adults. If they get into a relationship with a drug addict, that is their choice. If they get into a relationship with a player who just uses them for sex, that is their choice. We can disagree with their decision and do our best to talk them out of it. But we cannot say they are not ALLOWED. Just like they can't stop us from playing an instrument we like or watching Netflix on the weekend. It is pretty simple.

You are just filling this discussion with red herrings and pointless hypothetical questions. We have gone from talking about homosexuality being a choice to whether or not a person is an adult when they are in their 30s. You are grasping at anything you can to ignore the actual topic at hand.

And I never argued that 18 is a good age to claim someone is an adult. I think, if you are going to set an age, 18 is reasonable. But I think the question of when someone becomes an adult is far more complicated than setting one number. It is a huge debate with many possible angles to consider. And that is also why I said, the cut off for this is mid-20s. Because at that point, biologically, you have matured as much as you will ever mature. But experience in the world does play a part. It is not a concrete thing. You need to stop trying to make it a concrete thing.



Ill even take it further. If its true that a person knows their homosexual at an early age, then why try to stop them engaging in that type of behavior.

Uh, yeah, why try to stop them? That is kind of the point.

[97 bulls]

No, you are ignoring what I am saying to suit your point. I did not say that manipulating a person is not hurting them. Of course it is. But an adult in the world has a right to pursue relationships with other adults. We are not allowed to stop them from doing so, that would be impeding on their autonomy as adults. If they get into a relationship with a drug addict, that is their choice. If they get into a relationship with a player who just uses them for sex, that is their choice. We can disagree with their decision and do our best to talk them out of it. But we cannot say they are not ALLOWED. Just like they can't stop us from playing an instrument we like or watching Netflix on the weekend. It is pretty simple.

You are just filling this discussion with red herrings and pointless hypothetical questions. We have gone from talking about homosexuality being a choice to whether or not a person is an adult when they are in their 30s. You are grasping at anything you can to ignore the actual topic at hand.

And I never argued that 18 is a good age to claim someone is an adult. I think, if you are going to set an age, 18 is reasonable. But I think the question of when someone becomes an adult is far more complicated than setting one number. It is a huge debate with many possible angles to consider. And that is also why I said, the cut off for this is mid-20s. Because at that point, biologically, you have matured as much as you will ever mature. But experience in the world does play a part. It is not a concrete thing. You need to stop trying to make it a concrete thing.



Uh, yeah, why try to stop them? That is kind of the point.
No. This has evolved because an excuse is made for homosexuality. Mainly that its a choice that can't be controlled. My point is that theres are many aspects of life that we expect each other to control. And I gave examples. Plain and simple. I just wanna see some consistency.

[LJJ]

But you still didn't present any facts or smart argumentated opinions on why is it good for those people and why isn't it wrong aside from insulting all people that don't agree with you.
I maybe wrong on the subject, I don't know, but you are seriously a stupid individual.

The benefits of having sex really need to be explained to you? It's great for mental and physical health and a deep natural urge and need for humans.


I'm incredibly sorry for you that you don't understand this. You are missing a huge part of what makes life good, if you don't understand why sex is good.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Religion and morality are ****ing useless arguments for anything.

Also, not everyone has homosexual thoughts, but everyone has violent thoughts. Saying that asking people to reign in one thing and not the other is hypocritical is not a real argument.

[Kblaze8855]

The issue seems to be that some think you are only gay when you have sex with someone of the same sex.....which makes it a choice. What I wonder is this.....

Ate you only straight when you have sex with a woman?

What are you the extreme vast majority of life that isn't acting on sexual desires?

Gay and straight aren't actions......they are a matter of what attracts you.

Meaning what you do doesn't determine it.....

[Milbuck]

It's not worth it. He will not budge on his views.

[gts]

I don't believe fighting a natural urge is exercising a matter of choice. An alcoholic doesn't stop being an alcoholic because he fights the urge to drink, even sober for 20 years he's still an alcoholic...

if you're gay living the life of a straight person isn't choosing to be straight it's just masking your natural feelings

You can't choose to be straight, just like you can't choose which color you find most appealing or if you like salty more than sweet...

just my two cents, gotta get some more work done...

[SexSymbol]

I don't believe fighting a natural urge is exercising a matter of choice. An alcoholic doesn't stop being an alcoholic because he fights the urge to drink, even sober for 20 years he's still an alcoholic...

if you're gay living the life of a straight person isn't choosing to be straight it's just masking your natural feelings

You can't choose to be straight, just like you can't choose which color you find most appealing or if you like salty more than sweet...

just my two cents, gotta get some more work done...
bad exampes, there's scientific explainings of why you prefer one over another because of your genes and physiology.
Since there's nothing to suggest that gay people are different genetically, those are terrible examples, it's all psychological

[RoseCity07]

Lol if you think it's a choice. I asked this religious girl if she could choose to be attracted to women. I've never see someone hit a mental wall like that.:oldlol: I could see the light go on in her head as she tried to square her beliefs with her answer. She couldn't.

If it was a choice no one would be gay. No one would be something that puts their life in danger.

[The Iron Sheik]

The issue seems to be that some think you are only gay when you have sex with someone of the same sex.....which makes it a choice. What I wonder is this.....

Ate you only straight when you have sex with a woman?

What are you the extreme vast majority of life that isn't acting on sexual desires?

Gay and straight aren't actions......they are a matter of what attracts you.

Meaning what you do doesn't determine it.....

sex is what makes it gay or straight. i can say i love another man, but it's not gay unless sexual stuff is involved. i can say i love my sister, but it's not incest unless sex in involved. whether the sex is physical or thoughts doesn't matter, it's still sexual

[97 bulls]

Religion and morality are ****ing useless arguments for anything.

Also, not everyone has homosexual thoughts, but everyone has violent thoughts. Saying that asking people to reign in one thing and not the other is hypocritical is not a real argument.
Lol. How do you know what's in people's minds and whats not?

This never ceases to amaze me. You people constantly preach tolerance and understanding and live and let live but are quick to make unsubstantiated claims and insults and accusations yourselves.

Look at this thread. I havnt insulted anyone here. Or made any accusations. All I've asked is to think outside the box and really consider WHY you feel the way you do.

[97 bulls]

Lol if you think it's a choice. I asked this religious girl if she could choose to be attracted to women. I've never see someone hit a mental wall like that.:oldlol: I could see the light go on in her head as she tried to square her beliefs with her answer. She couldn't.

If it was a choice no one would be gay. No one would be something that puts their life in danger.
Then why do humans cheat? Or steal? Or Muder? Or do anything they know is morally wrong?

Why can someone get upset if a person cuts them off in traffic but take it no further than being upset, and yet another person in the same situation get mad enough to run the person off the road?

[BRabbiT]

no, it's not a choice (straight or gay).

but other sexual preferences (e.g., group, bdsm) is a preference. people can turn the volume up or down, depending on will power, for example

[97 bulls]

sex is what makes it gay or straight. i can say i love another man, but it's not gay unless sexual stuff is involved. i can say i love my sister, but it's not incest unless sex in involved. whether the sex is physical or thoughts doesn't matter, it's still sexual
It comes down to what the person is willing to make publicly known. If we were to actually be able to read the mind of a human, I think we all would be shocked at what we find out. Some transgressions are much easier to overcome than others. Why can some people be happy with a one drink and another need to drink until they collapse?

[97 bulls]

no, it's not a choice (straight or gay).

but other sexual preferences (e.g., group, bdsm) is a preference. people can turn the volume up or down, depending on will power, for example
If it's not a choice, then how do you answer a person that used to be gay or lesbian and choose to no longer be? They're lying?

I used to love thicker vuloptuous women. But now I've began to appreciate smaller framed women as well. Prefereces can change.

[BRabbiT]

If it's not a choice, then how do you answer a person that used to be gay or lesbian and choose to no longer be? They're lying?



nah, even if they're not 'gay' anymore, they're still attracted to their own sex.

that's the part that's not a choice. basic instinct.

whether they act on it or not is up to them.

[Milbuck]

sex is what makes it gay or straight. i can say i love another man, but it's not gay unless sexual stuff is involved. i can say i love my sister, but it's not incest unless sex in involved. whether the sex is physical or thoughts doesn't matter, it's still sexual
No it's not. Sexual orientation is the sexual attraction you feel towards a particular gender or more, rooted in psychological, biological, and behavioral patterns. It has nothing to do with whether or not you act on it. I can be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual my entire life and never act on that attraction physically. But it doesn't make me asexual.

Sex =/= sexual attracion.

[The Iron Sheik]

No it's not. Sexual orientation is the sexual attraction you feel towards a particular gender or more, rooted in psychological, biological, and behavioral patterns. It has nothing to do with whether or not you act on it. I can be heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual my entire life and never act on that attraction physically. But it doesn't make me asexual.

Sex =/= sexual attracion.

read my last sentence. i didn't say it had to be physical. it can be a sexual thought, but it's still sex involved. that's why it's called sexual preference. it's no different than wanting to f*ck old women or liking to have your nipples licked. they're all preferences, and have no reason to be accepted publicly. what you do in your bedroom is your own business. i'm all for gay people wanting to marry and have all of the legal shit, sure. but i don't want my right to hate them being taken away. that's my problem. they want public acceptance as well as law. the legal shit is fine, but we should still be able to hate them.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Worst thread ever.

[Milbuck]

read my last sentence. i didn't say it had to be physical. it can be a sexual thought, but it's still sex involved. that's why it's called sexual preference. it's no different than wanting to f*ck old women or liking to have your nipples licked. they're all preferences, and have no reason to be accepted publicly. what you do in your bedroom is your own business. i'm all for gay people wanting to marry and have all of the legal shit, sure. but i don't want my right to hate them being taken away. that's my problem. they want public acceptance as well as law. the legal shit is fine, but we should still be able to hate them.
Wanting to f*ck old women and being sexually attracted to women in general is a huge difference. One is a preference within a mostly uncontrollable orientation. The other is...well, a mostly uncontrollable orientation.


Humans aren't the only species that has same-sex pairings. For instance, female Japanese macaques may sometimes participate in energetic sexual stimulation. Lions, chimpanzees, bison and dolphins have also been spotted in same-sex pairings. And nearly 130 bird species have been observed engaging in sexual activities with same-sex partners.

While the evolutionary purpose of this behavior is not clear, the fact that animals routinely exhibit same-sex behavior belies the notion that gay sex is a modern human innovation.

No studies have found specific "gay genes" that reliably make someone gay. But some genes may make being gay likelier. For instance, a 2014 study in the journal Psychological Medicine showed that a gene on the X chromosome (one of the sex chromosomes) called Xq28 and a gene on chromosome 8 seem to be found in higher prevalence in men who are gay. That study, involving more than 400 pairs of gay brothers, followed the 1993 report by geneticist Dean Hamer suggesting the existence of a "gay gene." Other research has found that being gay or lesbian tends to run in families. It's also more likely for two identical twins, who share all of their genes, to both be gay than it is for two fraternal twins, who share just half of their genes, to both be homosexual. Those studies also suggest that genes seemed to have a greater influence on the sexual orientation of male versus female identical twins.

A 2012 study proposed that epigenetic changes, or alterations in marks on DNA that turn certain genes on and off, may play a role in homosexuality. This type of gene regulation isn't as stable as DNA, and can be switched on and off by environmental factors or conditions in the womb during prenatal development. But this so-called epigenome can also be passed on from generation to generation, which would explain why being gay seems to run in families, even when a single gene can't be pinpointed.

How such gay genes get passed down from generation to generation has puzzled scientists, given that gay couples cannot reproduce. One study found that gay men are biologically predisposed to help care for their nieces and nephews. Essentially, these gay uncles are helping their relatives to reproduce. "Kin therefore pass on more of the genes which they would share with their homosexual relatives," said evolutionary psychologist Paul Vasey of the University of Lethbridge in Canada, in a past Live Science article.

Orientation change

If being gay is truly a choice, then people who attempt to change their orientation should be able to do so. But most people who are gay describe it as a deeply ingrained attraction that can't simply be shut off or redirected.

On that, studies are clear. Gay conversion therapy is ineffective, several studies have found, and the American Psychological Association now says such treatment is harmful and can worsen feelings of self-hatred.

For men, studies suggest that orientation is fixed by the time the individual reaches puberty. Women show greater levels of "erotic plasticity," meaning their levels of attraction are more significantly shaped by culture, experience and love than is the case for men. However, even women who switch from gay to straight lifestyles don't stop being attracted to women, according to a 2012 study in the journal Archives of Sexual Behavior.

Those results suggest that while people can change their behavior, they aren't really changing their basic sexual attraction.

Of course they're going to want public acceptance. When a giant chunk of the population hates them, no shit they're gonna want to change that. It's a pointless fact of reality to bring it up. You're allowed to hate them all you want if that hate manifests itself strictly as a belief and nothing more. But don't expect yourself not to be mocked and ridiculed by the rest of society.

[SexSymbol]

no, it's not a choice (straight or gay).

but other sexual preferences (e.g., group, bdsm) is a preference. people can turn the volume up or down, depending on will power, for example
Why?
Being straight is the only one of those preferences that has an end result as is actually programmed into our genes as means of reproducing as continuing the human race.
Being gay is the same as liking brown nipples over pink nipples, it's a sexual preference that you just enjoy more, but it doesn't lead anywhere, so there's no point in wedding and adopting children. You have your wicked sex life in your bedroom and keep it there, don't bring it out to the public that was born to be the other way

[97 bulls]

Why?
Being straight is the only one of those preferences that has an end result as is actually programmed into our genes as means of reproducing as continuing the human race.
Being gay is the same as liking brown nipples over pink nipples, it's a sexual preference that you just enjoy more, but it doesn't lead anywhere, so there's no point in wedding and adopting children. You have your wicked sex life in your bedroom and keep it there, don't bring it out to the public that was born to be the other way
Right. Its a preference. Its a choice. You don't have to be gay. You choose to be gay. At any point for whatever reason, one can change their mind.

[97 bulls]

Why?
Being straight is the only one of those preferences that has an end result as is actually programmed into our genes as means of reproducing as continuing the human race.
Being gay is the same as liking brown nipples over pink nipples, it's a sexual preference that you just enjoy more, but it doesn't lead anywhere, so there's no point in wedding and adopting children. You have your wicked sex life in your bedroom and keep it there, don't bring it out to the public that was born to be the other way
I honestly don't know why a man would want to be gay. I mean, what can you do with a man that you can't do with a woman? Whats more is that there plenty if manly looking tomboys that are heterosexual. Why not be with them and have the best of both worlds.

[The Iron Sheik]

Wanting to f*ck old women and being sexually attracted to women in general is a huge difference. One is a preference within a mostly uncontrollable orientation. The other is...well, a mostly uncontrollable orientation.

they're both uncontrollable. how can you tell a guy who likes to have his balls sniffed that he can control the urge? or a girl that likes to be choked that she has some control over it? it's all about how and who you like to f*ck. it's preference.


Of course they're going to want public acceptance. When a giant chunk of the population hates them, no shit they're gonna want to change that.

that's what i think the problem is for most people. i think there are more people who wouldn't mind if gay people could adopt kids or visit each other in the hospital and all of the other legal stuff, but just can't get behind the idea of watching two dudes kissing on television.


It's a pointless fact of reality to bring it up. You're allowed to hate them all you want if that hate manifests itself strictly as a belief and nothing more. But don't expect yourself not to be mocked and ridiculed by the rest of society.

why should I be ridiculed for hating people though? i'm not talking about hurting them or harassment. i mean why should i be ridiculed for calling someone a f*ggot? or making fun a guy who dresses very effeminately?

[ace23]

they want public acceptance as well as law. the legal shit is fine, but we should still be able to hate them.
Why the **** do you want to hate gay people? :roll: :roll:

You obviously do already, so you still can. When you say "should still be able to hate them", do you mean legally discriminate against them?

[ArbitraryWater]

Right. Its a preference. Its a choice. You don't have to be gay. You choose to be gay. At any point for whatever reason, one can change their mind.

Y'all 2 (add dude77 & Iron Sheik) can keep blocking out logic, go tunnel vision and repeat this dumb shit over and over, but it's still not gonna be true, and deep down you know it.

Especially you, feels like you can't formulate one sentence without the "word of God".

[poido123]

Being gay is genetic.


It's either in you or not in you. Not a choice, but something that develops in someone, genetically stronger in some more than others.


I think most people in here cannot choose to be gay if they wanted to, because it's not in them. It's not what turns them on.

[Kblaze8855]

This is one of those arguments that goes past opinion and into the realm of people just being idiots. You can't reason with an idiot. And unless it's "trolling" there is nothing else to call it at this point.

The human race can only progress so far with dudes like this in the way and teaching their kids such irrational nonsense.

The bottom 20% of humanity anchors down billions. Shit like this is why it took hundreds of years for people to accept that the earth isn't flat.

[97 bulls]

This is one of those arguments that goes past opinion and into the realm of people just being idiots. You can't reason with an idiot. And unless it's "trolling" there is nothing else to call it at this point.

The human race can only progress so far with dudes like this in the way and teaching their kids such irrational nonsense.

The bottom 20% of humanity anchors down billions. Shit like this is why it took hundreds of years for people to accept that the earth isn't flat.
Cut the elitist malarkey. Who are you to say your opinion is more relevant than another?

[97 bulls]

Y'all 2 (add dude77 & Iron Sheik) can keep blocking out logic, go tunnel vision and repeat this dumb shit over and over, but it's still not gonna be true, and deep down you know it.

Especially you, feels like you can't formulate one sentence without the "word of God".
Thats what this boils down to huh? GOD. I'm not arguing as to whether or not its right or wrong. That's for another debate and I personally stay away from those. All I can do is show you what God says and then it goes between you and him.

Our discussion is whether or not a person has to be a homosexual.

[Kblaze8855]

People with common sense have been called out by clowns holding onto logic from centuries ago for all human history.

There comes a point where its an ever shrinking weak minded group holding onto beliefs everyone educated let go of two hundred years ago....and at that point it's obvious reason wont prevail.

You just have to wait til society won't look the other way on such absurdities so people pushing nonsense are marginalized into irrelevance.

The flat earth movement still exists. Give it 50 years the idea that people decide if sucking a dick is appealing or not will be right next to it on the outskirts of society where it belongs.

This isn't something history is gonna view the proponents of well.

You dudes about to be a punchline in science classes for 800 years.

[KingBeasley08]

Why the **** do you want to hate gay people? :roll: :roll:

You obviously do already, so you still can. When you say "should still be able to hate them", do you mean legally discriminate against them?
lol exactly. You already do hate em so don't front

[longtime lurker]

For those people that say being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?

[Kblaze8855]

It would appear they don't believe gay or straight exists independent of sexual acts. People aren't gay due to desire.....but due to acts. Sexual orientation changes with your decisions. Therefore people are not straight unless they are currently having sex with someone of the opposite sex.

Only the act counts. What's in your head is immaterial.....because common sense isn't considered.

Gay or straight is the decision to act on otherwise irrelevant desires.

So they are only straight while having sex.....that's when they decide to be straight.

All thoughts and desires before and after aren't the issue.

[ArbitraryWater]

For those people that say being gay is a choice, when did you choose to be straight?

All I ever wanted to know.. one day you realize you really like these female creatures, in a different way than boys.. you don't make that choice, and the guy on Twitter who said he did, lied to himself.

[greymatter]

It's no longer called "sexual preference" because "preference" implies that one's attractions are indeed a choice.

To the inbred Jeebus freaks who continue to claim it is a choice, try choosing to be attracted to the idea of having a man's sausage in one of your orifices.

[KNOW1EDGE]

One doesn't just choose to suck a d1ck. A d1ck naturally and uncontrollably ends up down their throat.

One doesn't just choose to go to a gay bar and fuhck a dude, they have no choice and no control, they are forced into gay bars much like Cawks are forced in their a$$

They have zero control over the choices they make

[greymatter]

Being gay is genetic.

There is no evidence of a "gay" gene. The only thing "genetic" about gayness is the predisposition that one might have with regards to having gay offspring. Whether a child turns out gay is mostly influenced by hormonal development in utero. Some women are genetically predisposed to having higher or lower than normal levels of estrogen/testosterone being fed to their fetus. If a male fetus gets too little testosterone during development, he is very likely to turn out gay. Vice versa if a female fetus gets too much testosterone, she'll be more likely to turn out butch.

What's interesting to note is that a study in humans has shown that the odds of having gay offspring generally increases with the more children a mother has. It's quite interesting since all of the gay people in my family or family's circle of friends are all the youngest amongst their siblings.

[The Iron Sheik]

Why the **** do you want to hate gay people? :roll: :roll:

You obviously do already, so you still can. When you say "should still be able to hate them", do you mean legally discriminate against them?

i explicitly stated that i'm all for gay people have all of the same legal rights as straight people. but a lot of gay people want others to not hate them as well. that's what i'm arguing against. i don't think that's feasible or a battle they should engage.

and i want to hate them because i should be able to hate whoever. i'm not saying that i hate every single gay person that i encounter. i'm saying if i wanted to hate them, i should be able to do so in peace. i hate james harden. i don't have a complete logical reason, and i don't need one. i don't want him to die or anything, but i just should be able to hate him.

i'm just all for being able to verbally express hatred whenever one feels like it.

[ArbitraryWater]

i explicitly stated that i'm all for gay people have all of the same legal rights as straight people. but a lot of gay people want others to not hate them as well. that's what i'm arguing against. i don't think that's feasible or a battle they should engage.

and i want to hate them because i should be able to hate whoever. i'm not saying that i hate every single gay person that i encounter. i'm saying if i wanted to hate them, i should be able to do so in peace. i hate james harden. i don't have a complete logical reason, and i don't need one. i don't want him to die or anything, but i just should be able to hate him.

i'm just all for being able to verbally express hatred whenever one feels like it.

...............................

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rZxKilLVYk4/Tzp5FHku2yI/AAAAAAAAAyU/g_k73uauybI/s1600/jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif

One of the most pathetic posts I've ever read.

[Kblaze8855]

One doesn't just choose to suck a d1ck. A d1ck naturally and uncontrollably ends up down their throat.

One doesn't just choose to go to a gay bar and fuhck a dude, they have no choice and no control, they are forced into gay bars much like Cawks are forced in their a$$

They have zero control over the choices they make


They aren't gay because of choices. They make choices because they are gay. It's the simplest of concepts......

They **** men for the reason you **** women. They are gay no matter if they choose to act on it sexually just as you are straight even if you don't act on it sexuallu.

Gary or straight is not a matter of where your dick is at the moment. It's internal. Plenty of gay people don't have sex at all just like straight people. They don't stop being gay while not having sex just like we don't stop being straight.

How anyone fails to grasp that is baffling.

[The Iron Sheik]

It would appear they don't believe gay or straight exists independent of sexual acts. People aren't gay due to desire.....but due to acts. Sexual orientation changes with your decisions. Therefore people are not straight unless they are currently having sex with someone of the opposite sex.

Only the act counts. What's in your head is immaterial.....because common sense isn't considered.

Gay or straight is the decision to act on otherwise irrelevant desires.

So they are only straight while having sex.....that's when they decide to be straight.

All thoughts and desires before and after aren't the issue.

the bolded only seems to apply to women imo. a girl can kiss a girl or something of that nature then the next day be straight. usually once a guy does something gay, he's considered gay forever.

but to address the rest of your post, sexual orientation isn't just decided when one is actively having sex, it can be through repeated thoughts as well. your most common thoughts will reflect your desires. you may have intrusive thoughts from time to time, but they are far and few in between at least in comparison to the ones you usually have. i'm sure gay guys think more about having sex with men than they do women. the inverse is true with straight men.

but i think we're somewhat in agreement about actions determining if something is gay, i was just approaching it from a different angle. i was just explaining that being gay is no different than wanting to tie your girl up and put an apple in her mouth or getting your nipples licked. they're all sexual preferences.

[The Iron Sheik]

...............................

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rZxKilLVYk4/Tzp5FHku2yI/AAAAAAAAAyU/g_k73uauybI/s1600/jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif

One of the most pathetic posts I've ever read.

yes i'm sure you're just so fond of every person you've ever come across no matter what. you sure feel that way about kobe bryant huh?

[KNOW1EDGE]

Let's all speculate some more and act like we know what we're talking about

[Kblaze8855]

If you people took the opinions of the only ones who do have inside knowledge of this issue serious ir wouldn't be a discussion to begin with. Millions of gay people will tell you the same thing we are.....then you wull act like they don't know what they're taking about either.

[Megabox!]

I actually know people who were once straight and now they're gay and vice versa. So who the f*ck knows

[The Iron Sheik]

I actually know people who were once straight and now they're gay and vice versa. So who the f*ck knows

right. i don't know if people are born gay or not. it really shouldn't matter though. people should be able to f*ck who they want and hate who they want.

[bballnoob1192]

I don't know, but to me it's always been kind of a "sleeper" type gene that gets activated by your environment/influences. idk if that equates to having a "choice" or not.

[SexSymbol]

Y'all 2 (add dude77 & Iron Sheik) can keep blocking out logic, go tunnel vision and repeat this dumb shit over and over, but it's still not gonna be true, and deep down you know it.

Especially you, feels like you can't formulate one sentence without the "word of God".
You just can't make a logical argument, can you?
It's like 8 posts in a row of ad hominem by you. Great work, you really seem to be smart fella

[Dresta]

...............................

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-rZxKilLVYk4/Tzp5FHku2yI/AAAAAAAAAyU/g_k73uauybI/s1600/jaguars-fan-confused-wtf.gif

One of the most pathetic posts I've ever read.
As much as he's a mindless dick, he's still right. Freedom of conscience is the most important thing; the government should not be telling you what and how to think: that is not its business. It is not the government's job to enforce an orthodoxy of moral opinion, especially when it openly conflicts with things like religious freedom and freedom of expression - the forced establishment of a new moral orthodoxy, and using it to guide policy, is little different than the state establishing its own religion, which is completely unconstitutional.

The modern state has supplanted the church and community in many countries, and this is very destructive towards social and cultural harmony. Why is it always that when religion recedes governments and super-states take over? That the worship of God is replaced with the worship of power and of the majority? There is a pretty clear correlation here. It would be my guess that human beings always need to believe something instinctively and without reason, and so when God is removed, it's somewhat inevitable that the credulous will now put themselves at the service of this new absolute, the state. As soon as you give it the right to legislate morality you give it widespread creditability as a source of moral authority and wisdom - a catastrophic mistake.

[Dresta]

It's no longer called "sexual preference" because "preference" implies that one's attractions are indeed a choice.

To the inbred Jeebus freaks who continue to claim it is a choice, try choosing to be attracted to the idea of having a man's sausage in one of your orifices.
No it doesn't. If you have a preference for chocolate over crisps - is this a choice? I don't think so. In fact, this whole argument is redundant and idiotic because there are no choices. How are you defining 'choice' here - something you decide upon consciously? Well, that doesn't make it any more of a choice, more just a mirage or illusion of choice. It's well known that your brain makes decisions before they consciously materialise, and that your conscious thought is only a post hoc justification for something you had already decided to do.

You cannot separate 'choice' and 'un-choice' as you seem to be doing: everything is a choice or nothing is a choice - those are your only options, anything else is self-contradictory. Complete responsibility for ones actions or no responsibility - again, anything else is a contradiction.

[ArbitraryWater]

The thing I fundamentally disagree with, is hating on someone and being fine with not having a logical reason for it.... it's also contradicting, since he doesn't know these people, hates them (for whatever reason, again), but won't go as far as to say they shouldn't have equal rights. Cowardice.

Iron Sheik, pretty sure you won't tell any Gay that into his face, you're all about expressing hatred verbally, but I'm pretty sure the internet is as far as you'll go with that.

[Dresta]

The thing I fundamentally disagree with, is hating on someone and being fine with not having a logical reason for it.... it's also contradicting, since he doesn't know these people, hates them (for whatever reason, again), but won't go as far as to say they shouldn't have equal rights. Cowardice.

Iron Sheik, pretty sure you won't tell any Gay that into his face, you're all about expressing hatred verbally, but I'm pretty sure the internet is as far as you'll go with that.
The truth is that people who hate gays can't help their hating gays anymore than a gay man can stop himself finding other men attractive. They just feel that way, instinctively, and rationalise the matter after, to justify it to themselves. Human beings do this all the time.

Hating people full stop is illogical unless you're religious because no one can help what they are, even Charlie Manson.

[joe]

Even if being gay was a choice, who cares? If I choose to be attracted to males why is that a problem?

[ace23]

i explicitly stated that i'm all for gay people have all of the same legal rights as straight people. but a lot of gay people want others to not hate them as well. that's what i'm arguing against. i don't think that's feasible or a battle they should engage.

and i want to hate them because i should be able to hate whoever. i'm not saying that i hate every single gay person that i encounter. i'm saying if i wanted to hate them, i should be able to do so in peace. i hate james harden. i don't have a complete logical reason, and i don't need one. i don't want him to die or anything, but i just should be able to hate him.

i'm just all for being able to verbally express hatred whenever one feels like it.
Who says you can't though? Lol. As long as you're not saying "I hate you because you're gay", I think you're in the clear.

[ArbitraryWater]

The truth is that people who hate gays can't help their hating gays anymore than a gay man can stop himself finding other men attractive. They just feel that way, instinctively, and rationalise the matter after, to justify it to themselves. Human beings do this all the time.

Hating people full stop is illogical unless you're religious because no one can help what they are, even Charlie Manson.

That doesn't make it any more right, though... confront. I don't just feel the need to hate on anyone without a reason, hate is such a strong word, I hate very few if anyone, tbh. Hate is negative energy. Hate is discrimination. People are what they are (whatever that means) and they can change to the better, too.

[SexSymbol]

That doesn't make it any more right, though... confront. I don't just feel the need to hate on anyone without a reason, hate is such a strong word, I hate very few if anyone, tbh. Hate is negative energy. Hate is discrimination. People are what they are (whatever that means) and they can change to the better, too.
You hate a lot of posters on this site, including me, judging from your ongoing personal insults in threads that don't deserve them. You hate Kobe with a passion, because he's a great basketball players.
IT doesn't make it wrong too.

[Dresta]

That doesn't make it any more right, though... confront. I don't just feel the need to hate on anyone without a reason, hate is such a strong word, I hate very few if anyone, tbh. Hate is negative energy. Hate is discrimination. People are what they are (whatever that means) and they can change to the better, too.
And why is it wrong? What is your problem with hate? It is a salient emotion, intrinsically linked to the profound positive emotions (how many people end up hating someone they used to love?) - you cannot simply remove one without permanently altering the others. Just like you can't remove all the pain in a man's life without sullying all his happy moments also.

'hate is a negative energy' 'hate is discrimination' - what do these things even mean? Because they mean nothing to me. Hate is however you personally view it, and many think it is a great motivator (which it is). And i think you'll find that any emotion elicited by any individual is 'discrimination' - you think 'love' isn't discrimination? It is the ultimate discrimination, as is marriage. A human being can't live without incessantly discriminating - if 'discrimination' is wrong then living is wrong. And what is driving these opinions of yours? Your intuitive beliefs, which say 'this is wrong and that is wrong' - but if you'd grown up in a different age or even in a different place today, you'd think very differently. The mantra of 'discrimination' has been used to make thought and speech uniform, and to rid the Western world of any actual diversity of opinion (while trumpeting diversity as the benefactor of this).


And it means that people have no control over the things that mould their personality. They can only change if they think that the right thing is to change (which many do not), and also if they even have the strength to break with everything they believed in the past and become a new person (most can't do this one either, especially when it comes to political and moral delusions). It takes a man to admit his faults and change himself.

[joe]

And why is it wrong? What is your problem with hate? It is a salient emotion, intrinsically linked to the profound positive emotions (how many people end up hating someone they used to love?) - you cannot simply remove one without permanently altering the others. Just like you can't remove all the pain in a man's life without sullying all his happy moments also.

'hate is a negative energy' 'hate is discrimination' - what do these things even mean? Because they mean nothing to me. Hate is however you personally view it, and many think it is a great motivator (which it is). And i think you'll find that any emotion elicited by any individual is 'discrimination' - you think 'love' isn't discrimination? It is the ultimate discrimination, as is marriage. A human being can't live without incessantly discriminating - if 'discrimination' is wrong then living is wrong. And what is driving these opinions of yours? Your intuitive beliefs, which say 'this is wrong and that is wrong' - but if you'd grown up in a different age or even in a different place today, you'd think very differently. The mantra of 'discrimination' has been used to make thought and speech uniform, and to rid the Western world of any actual diversity of opinion (while trumpeting diversity as the benefactor of this).


And it means that people have no control over the things that mould their personality. They can only change if they think that the right thing is to change (which many do not), and also if they even have the strength to break with everything they believed in the past and become a new person (most can't do this one either, especially when it comes to political and moral delusions). It takes a man to admit his faults and change himself.

I think there is a pro-social reason to want to end hatred. Not hatred in general, as in the emotion of hatred, but hatred towards specific groups. Because that hate can turn into discrimination, violence, and in the most extreme cases, genocide.

We know that not too long ago, people would get physically attacked for being gay. Coming out of the closet was not only scary because it might make your father hate you... but it might also get you assaulted by a group of people. Wanting to stop that from happening in the future, by educating people on the fact that homosexuality is not some wicked, evil thing- I think it is sensible to do.

I think it is an interesting point that you are making. It is kind of ironic to HATE people who HATE. Or to be intolerant towards people who are intolerant. I understand that point.

But we also both know that masses of ignorant people, filled with hate, are one of the most dangerous things in human society. Especially if that hate ever becomes government sanctioned. So spreading the idea of tolerance serves that purpose of keeping the angry mob in check.

Edit- Not that that's why I make these arguments, really. But I wonder if part of human natural selection has filtered in some of those pro-social behaviors. People who spot potential reasons for future violence and try to cut it off before it grows.

[ArbitraryWater]

You hate a lot of posters on this site, including me, judging from your ongoing personal insults in threads that don't deserve them. You hate Kobe with a passion, because he's a great basketball players.
IT doesn't make it wrong too.

Can you make relevant posts instead of mindless assumptions next time? Thanks.


I think there is a pro-social reason to want to end hatred. Not hatred in general, as in the emotion of hatred, but hatred towards specific groups. Because that hate can turn into discrimination, violence, and in the most extreme cases, genocide.

We know that not too long ago, people would get physically attacked for being gay. Coming out of the closet was not only scary because it might make your father hate you... but it might also get you assaulted by a group of people. Wanting to stop that from happening in the future, by educating people on the fact that homosexuality is not some wicked, evil thing- I think it is sensible to do.

I think it is an interesting point that you are making. It is kind of ironic to HATE people who HATE. Or to be intolerant towards people who are intolerant. I understand that point.

But we also both know that masses of ignorant people, filled with hate, are one of the most dangerous things in human society. Especially if that hate ever becomes government sanctioned. So spreading the idea of tolerance serves that purpose of keeping the angry mob in check.

Edit- Not that that's why I make these arguments, really. But I wonder if part of human natural selection has filtered in some of those pro-social behaviors. People who spot potential reasons for future violence and try to cut it off before it grows.

ya... and for what its good or means to some of you, hatred is wrong. Not just missplaced, but also wasted energy. People throw this word around and don't realize the power of it.

[SexSymbol]

Can you make relevant posts instead of mindless assumptions next time? Thanks.



ya... and for what its good or means to some of you, hatred is wrong. Not just missplaced, but also wasted energy. People throw this word around and don't realize the power of it.
Yeah, I think I would be writing the same stuff you are if I was in your position of not knowing shit about the shit im talking about.
You do realize that I have written quite a few posts in this thread that are relevant to the topic and you've responded to them with irrelevant personal insults and ad hominem, do you?

[The Iron Sheik]

The thing I fundamentally disagree with, is hating on someone and being fine with not having a logical reason for it.... it's also contradicting, since he doesn't know these people, hates them (for whatever reason, again), but won't go as far as to say they shouldn't have equal rights. Cowardice.

Iron Sheik, pretty sure you won't tell any Gay that into his face, you're all about expressing hatred verbally, but I'm pretty sure the internet is as far as you'll go with that.

you're getting emotional. i don't actively hate gay guys because they're gay. i'm pretty apathetic towards the gay community. i couldn't care less about what people do in their bedrooms. i just want the right to call a gay guy a f*ggot and not be crucified for it. just like i can't get mad at someone making a racist joke about black people. it's because i want to be able to say racist things about hispanics and not be a hypocrite.

i'm looking at it from a pragmatic perspective, not an emotional one. you're looking at it from the latter perspective

[ArbitraryWater]

you're getting emotional. i don't actively hate gay guys because they're gay. i'm pretty apathetic towards the gay community. i couldn't care less about what people do in their bedrooms. i just want the right to call a gay guy a f*ggot and not be crucified for it. just like i can't get mad at someone making a racist joke about black people. it's because i want to be able to say racist things about hispanics and not be a hypocrite.

i'm looking at it from a pragmatic perspective, not an emotional one. you're looking at it from the latter perspective

You dont hate gays because they're gay?

That makes ZERO sense...

They're gay people, people you don't know, strangers, and the only thing you know about them is that they're gay, and you hate these people........................ BUT, you don't hate them for being gay (even though thats the only thing you know about them).


Okay, I think we're done here :oldlol:

If you're talking purely jokes, then this is a whole other discussion, wtf. Make gay jokes. Just don't do them too much or people will be bothered, ignored.. thats the deal with every joke, even with people who can take 'em and don't get offended quickly.

[NumberSix]

ya... and for what its good or means to some of you, hatred is wrong. Not just missplaced, but also wasted energy. People throw this word around and don't realize the power of it.
Now we're getting into thought crimes territory.

Why can't we just let people live their own lives?

[ArbitraryWater]

Now we're getting into thought crimes territory.

Why can't we just let people live their own lives?

"thought crime" ? :oldlol:

I give a shit about thought crime, or whatever thats supposed to mean... All I'm saying is I find it ridiculous to hate anyone, especially based on nothing. I don't think there's one person I hate.

[The Iron Sheik]

You dont hate gays because they're gay?

That makes ZERO sense...

They're gay people, people you don't know, strangers, and the only thing you know about them is that they're gay, and you hate these people........................ BUT, you don't hate them for being gay (even though thats the only thing you know about them).


Okay, I think we're done here :oldlol:

If you're talking purely jokes, then this is a whole other discussion, wtf. Make gay jokes. Just don't do them too much or people will be bothered, ignored.. thats the deal with every joke, even with people who can take 'em and don't get offended quickly.

i want the right to be able to hate them. i don't know you but i still want the right to hate you if i want. (i don't hate you btw). that's what i'm saying. it seems that the lgbt community is fighting not only for legal rights (which again, they should have) but also public acceptance. like the suns commercial saying that calling something gay is wrong. or people calling others homophobes for not wanting to see michael sam kiss his boyfriend on tv. that's a different area.

i just find it ironic that a guy who constantly shits on someone (kobe bryant) is crying about acceptance and not judging people that you don't know

[ArbitraryWater]

i want the right to be able to hate them. i don't know you but i still want the right to hate you if i want. (i don't hate you btw). that's what i'm saying. it seems that the lgbt community is fighting not only for legal rights (which again, they should have) but also public acceptance. like the suns commercial saying that calling something gay is wrong. or people calling others homophobes for not wanting to see michael sam kiss his boyfriend on tv. that's a different area.

i just find it ironic that a guy who constantly shits on someone (kobe bryant) is crying about acceptance and not judging people that you don't know

Besides a thread lately about playoff woes, I haven't talked about Kobe in months... I don't even get where this is coming from, since I'm if anything talking about personal dislike over a basketball player.. like, how is this relevant? And whats the acc you used in the nba forum?

I just find hate meaningless.. thats all. You want the right to hate? Like, yeah, no one's gonna put you behind bars for it, but its still senseless. I probably have and will use this word, especially when caught in emotion, though.


You dont hate gays because they're gay?

They're gay people, people you don't know, strangers, and the only thing you know about them is that they're gay, and you hate these people........................ BUT, you don't hate them for being gay (even though thats the only thing you know about them).

This is what I don't get. Why the hate? You must have an explanation to your emotions/feelings, no?

[The Iron Sheik]

Besides a thread lately about playoff woes, I haven't talked about Kobe in months... I don't even get where this is coming from, since I'm if anything talking about personal dislike over a basketball player.. like, how is this relevant? And whats the acc you used in the nba forum?

what do you mean? i've only posted on this account.


I just find hate meaningless.. thats all. You want the right to hate? Like, yeah, no one's gonna put you behind bars for it, but its still senseless. I probably have and will use this word, especially when caught in emotion, though.

fair enough


This is what I don't get. Why the hate? You must have an explanation to your emotions/feelings, no?

nah. i'm not talking about deep rooted, perpetual hatred. when i say "hatred", i mean the ability to say mean, hurtful things about people, usually out of jest, but sometimes serious.

[Joyner82reload]

I'm actually curious if human sexual attraction is based upon cultural pressure/normalcies. I.E. if you put a 10 kids from birth in a village consisting of only 100 homosexuals that was isolated from society/technology and allowed them to grow up, what would their sexual preference be?

[Dresta]

I'm actually curious if human sexual attraction is based upon cultural pressure/normalcies. I.E. if you put a 10 kids from birth in a village consisting of only 100 homosexuals that was isolated from society/technology and allowed them to grow up, what would their sexual preference be?

Dunno, but it's not as black and white as people like to make out: the experiences of other cultures and the prevalence of homosexual interactions tells us at least this much. And you only need to look at the history of young boys in the old English boarding schools, where homosexual experimentation was rife, among many people who generally avoided homosexual behaviour after they left school. So if you shoved 100 young males together from a young age, it's likely that a significantly larger number of people would become 'homosexual' than would otherwise have been.

It's still a murky subject area with a myriad of factors at play, but culture certainly played a big role in stigmatising homosexuality and thus in discouraging it. It is likely still stigmatised by young children (anyone know? i avoid schools) - and it certainly was when i was a boy (variants of 'gay' were the common insults).

[NumberSix]

I'm actually curious if human sexual attraction is based upon cultural pressure/normalcies. I.E. if you put a 10 kids from birth in a village consisting of only 100 homosexuals that was isolated from society/technology and allowed them to grow up, what would their sexual preference be?
Well, gays grow up in a society of straights and they still end up gay. I think it's pretty obvious that people don't just get convinced to be straight or gay.

[Joyner82reload]

Well, gays grow up in a society of straights and they still end up gay. I think it's pretty obvious that people don't just get convinced to be straight or gay.

They aren't the norm, just as their could be straight kids that could theoretically grow up in that all gay village.

[ArbitraryWater]

Had to... reminded me of this thread :oldlol:


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