Going Clear on HBO is a must watch.

[KevinNYC]

I knew a lot about the Church of Scientology, but it was still an eye opener.

Crazy Stuff. A very high member left the Church and they bought the house across the street (http://www.texasmonthly.com/story/his-town) from his and began filming him all the time.[QUOTE]One of the most well-known heretics is Rathbun, a 55-year-old from California who spent 27 years in the church and rose to the rank of inspector general of the Religious Technology Center

[Sarcastic]

Scientologists are bat shit crazy, but then again so are all religions. They are all based on myths, and the sheep follow no matter what.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Looking forward to it. Just got the torrent earlier today

[KingBeasley08]

Scientology is some creepy shit. This shit got raved at Sundance. I already have it ready to watch, just needa find the time

[KingBeasley08]

Scientology is some creepy shit. This shit got raved at Sundance. I already have it ready to watch, just needa find the time
Figured I'd watch it. Holy shit 10/10. See it as soon as you can. Its some fcked up shit

[El Kabong]

Inspector General is a pretty good title to have.

[Thorpesaurous]

I have a buddy who is in the media and he got an advanced screener, and he lives a few blocks from the main church that's on the press for the doc. He raved about it, and he's a pretty good judge for me.

I'm a little surprised, because in spite of all the adoration it got prior to it's release, from my friend and otherwise, I really don't have much interest in it. It's just not a subject I care that much about. But I'm going to make an effort to see it this week.

[rufuspaul]

I thought the best parts were the footage of L. Ron Hubbard. The guy was clearly insane.

[KevinNYC]

I thought the best parts were the footage of L. Ron Hubbard. The guy was clearly insane.
My favorite part was the stage decoration when they gave Tom Cruise "you the most awesome eva award."

It's like a Nazi version of Oz.

[DukeDelonte13]

Scientologists are bat shit crazy, but then again so are all religions. They are all based on myths, and the sheep follow no matter what.


most religions don't make you sign up for classes that cost thousands upon thousands of dollars and have their own special slave labor camps.

[fiddy]

downloading, will check it out after work

[rufuspaul]

My favorite part was the stage decoration when they gave Tom Cruise "you the most awesome eva award."

It's like a Nazi version of Oz.


Yeah that was beyond weird. What the hell was Cruise wearing around his neck?

[LJJ]

Watched it in 1080p on the good old youtube last night. People are dedicated to this shit, only for that to be taken down 10 hours later?

I agree with rufus that the best parts was the Hubbard footage. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U451kQ_4Qww) He's crazy but at the same time you can see why he could get a following of confused, desperate people and start a religion. I think he sounds a lot like Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers movies. He hunted with pygmies in the Philippines.

At the same time, with all these former high ranking members participating in this documentary, I'm disappointed. I wanted to hear more about what they did as members of the church. These people during their time at scientology must have personally abused people mentally, extorted people, done terrible things to their parents and their family, etc.
Instead they are mostly focusing on how they got into the church and how they have been victimized by the church after leaving and some zany incidents, rather than all the dirt they've done themselves in the 30 years between that time.

[ArbitraryWater]

Scientologists are bat shit crazy, but then again so are all religions. They are all based on myths, and the sheep follow no matter what.

Other religions aren't one bit like Scientology.

edit: Anyone have an online streaming link?


Watched it in 1080p on the good old youtube last night. People are dedicated to this shit, only for that to be taken down 10 hours later?

I agree with rufus that the best parts was the Hubbard footage. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U451kQ_4Qww) He's crazy but at the same time you can see why he could get a following of confused, desperate people and start a religion. I think he sounds a lot like Dr. Evil from the Austin Powers movies. He hunted with pygmies in the Philippines.

At the same time, with all these former high ranking members participating in this documentary, I'm disappointed. I wanted to hear more about what they did as members of the church. These people during their time at scientology must have personally abused people mentally, extorted people, done terrible things to their parents and their family, etc.
Instead they are mostly focusing on how they got into the church and how they have been victimized by the church after leaving and some zany incidents, rather than all the dirt they've done themselves in the 30 years between that time.

http://www.lermanet2.com/images/hubbard-and-miscavige-2.jpg

[KevinNYC]

At the same time, with all these former high ranking members participating in this documentary, I'm disappointed. I wanted to hear more about what they did as members of the church. These people during their time at scientology must have personally abused people mentally, extorted people, done terrible things to their parents and their family, etc.
Instead they are mostly focusing on how they got into the church and how they have been victimized by the church after leaving and some zany incidents, rather than all the dirt they've done themselves in the 30 years between that time.
Well, I'm sure there's enough material for an 8 hour movie. I think they did talk about the fact they did bad stuff and then the irony was then it was was turned against them. They talked about how anyone who attacked the Church was "Fair Game." How they went after journalists previously and were completely dishonest about it. How they were asked to physically assault members. Then when they left the Church, it was shown how their wives attacked them for it on national TV. That was probably the scariest bit.

I think the POV of the movies was to show how Scientology, the system, works. That the abuse was systematic and part of their core practices rather than focus on any particular bad apple.

[rufuspaul]

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f80/rufuspaul/tom%20cruise%20scientology_zpsy56bvkbd.jpg

[gigantes]

i'm watching it right now. about 25 minutes in.

i'd already known the fundamentals of scientology, but it's great learning about the actual mechanisms and how the indoctrination process works.

i've been interested in religion, behavior and how the brain works for a while, but i have a feeling i'm going to learn a lot more from this film. :rockon:

[gigantes]

Other religions aren't one bit like Scientology.

edit: Anyone have an online streaming link?
other religions absolutely have some things in common with scientology. that's part of what made it so successful!

hubbard latched on to some of the key mechanisms of what makes religion work and blended it in to his own unique brand of self-serving bullshit.

for example, when you look at their mission statement of peace, prosperity, goodwill etc, that's very eastern, i think. not just buddhism but probably taoism, maybe shinto, etc.

another one is the e-meter expression of repressed memories. that's right in common with psychiatry, fringe-psychiatry, and probably some more esoteric religions like shakers and maybe sufi, kaballah, etc.


anyway, here's the stream i'm watching:
http://www.promptfile.com/l/F61265447F-03C17BA771

[rufuspaul]

I love the progression or "bridge" that people follow to rise in the church. At first it's like a guided self help seminar that seeks to clear one of bad memories. Despite the ridiculousness of the "meter" I can see how people would feel empowered and more confident about themselves, just like in traditional psychotherapy.

As they progress these people get empowered to be "auditors" themselves, and so on. Still makes sense as to how that would be appealing. A person looking for direction not only gets guidance but is now trusted to provide guidance to others.

Then they get the sacred text, handwritten by Hubbard himself. That's when you'd think even the most ardent follower would go "what the **** is this?!!?" Some absolutely bizarre shit.

[~primetime~]

Have not seen this yet...

Have only briefly read up on this stuff...Hubbard believes we all have spirits that reincarnate correct? (that part isn't crazy at all actually) But the actually 'crazy' part is that he thinks our spirits have interacted with aliens or something like that?

I know Hubbard wrote the "Bible" of this thing...but my question is where did Hubbard gain the knowledge for these writings? Or where does he claim he got this spiritual insight? Was that even covered in this documentary?

[~primetime~]

Believing in reincarnation isn't abnormal...and people claim to get knowledge of that through meditation, NDEs, astral plane, etc etc...

It's the alien stuff (that I don't know much about) that is abnormal...




I'm just wondering how Hubbard came to 'know' about his claims, and why people believe him?...there must be some convincing story behind it. Does he claim to have been abducted or something? What happened to him exactly to give him his insight on our spirits?

[rufuspaul]

Believing in reincarnation isn't abnormal...and people claim to get knowledge of that through meditation, NDEs, astral plane, etc etc...

It's the alien stuff (that I don't know much about) that is abnormal...




Um, yeah.



In the OT levels, Hubbard explains how to reverse the effects of past-life trauma patterns that supposedly extend millions of years into the past.[139] Among these advanced teachings is the story of Xenu (sometimes Xemu), introduced as the tyrant ruler of the "Galactic Confederacy". According to this story, 75 million years ago Xenu brought billions of people to Earth in spacecraft resembling Douglas DC-8 airliners, stacked them around volcanoes and detonated hydrogen bombs in the volcanoes. The thetans then clustered together, stuck to the bodies of the living, and continue to do this today. Scientologists at advanced levels place considerable emphasis on isolating body thetans and neutralizing their ill effects.

[DCL]

is it as whack as worshipping jesus?

[~primetime~]

:lol

So how did Hubbard find out about Xenu?

I don't get why anyone would buy into that? it's just a Sci-Fi novel...a cheezy one even.

I mean Tom Cruise (and others in Hollywood) aren't THAT out there...something compelling had to make them believers

[gigantes]

...but my question is where did Hubbard gain the knowledge for these writings? Or where does he claim he got this spiritual insight? Was that even covered in this documentary?
from the documentary and my previous knowledge:

- fairly gifted fiction writer, particularly in amount of output
- tremendous bullshit artist and con man
- mentally unstable with a deep need to feel better somehow
- strong urge to create order and systems
- claimed to have studied dozens of early civilisations, cultures and religions
- big time drug-user and likely pedophile



history is probably full of such people, but he was clearly one of the more successful ones.

[LJJ]

:lol

So how did Hubbard find out about Xenu?

Well you can say that about any prophet and any religion tho.

[~primetime~]

I'm not saying believing in it is abnormal

I'm saying it's fvking crazy

Not like you're crazy if you believe it, like holy shit what the fvk crazy
Yeah I gotcha

it IS crazy...but really the universe in general is crazy

[gigantes]

it IS crazy...but really the universe in general is crazy
you forgot to mention that climate is cyclical, therefore we have no impact on it.

[~primetime~]

Well you can say that about any prophet and any religion tho.
I'm just trying to figure out his source...I can figure out how the Christian Bible came to be and where those writing originated...or at least how we think they came to be.


Hubbard has some kind of technique to look into our past lives I guess? And that is how he knows about Xenu and blowing up volcanoes and all that, okay...so my next question is what makes it so convincing? Are other people also using this technique and seeing Xenu as well?

Tom Cruise might be kooky, but I know he is clinically SANE...as well as many others that buy into this thing.

[Hotlantadude81]

They deserve what they get for entering this stupid religion in the first place.

[LJJ]

Hubbard has some kind of technique to look into our past lives I guess? And that is how he knows about Xenu and blowing up volcanoes and all that, okay...so my next question is what makes it so convincing? Are other people also using this technique and seeing Xenu as well?

Tom Cruise might be kooky, but I know he is clinically SANE...as well as many others that buy into this thing.

Well for the regular people who are in Scientology, at this point most of the people in the top grew up in the church 100%. The current leader was born into it.

For others, to reach the level where you actually get the privilege to know the deeper mythology, you have to sacrifice decades of your life and essentially every penny you've ever earned. By that point, even if you realize the mythology is batshit insane, you might not want to / can't leave anyway, because it's your entire life.

For the celebrities, it's a different situation. The main theory for Cruise and Travolta being so loyal is that Scientology has entire file cabinets of videotapes of both of them discussing their entire history and their entire psyche. I don't know about that (because wouldn't the tapes of celebs who left scientology have surfaced then), but apparently they just get treated really well too.

[ArbitraryWater]

Hell, even I believe in reincarnation, since it wouldn't make ANY sense for me to live one singular life, with the wide disparity of luck/situations people are given...

Difference between religion and Scientology are the brute techniques, brainwashing even...

A friend of a parent's friend was in one of those clinics, and I remember him telling that they didn't want to let him out, or do something with him, and he threatened he would burn their whole thing down if they wouldn't let him go at that moment, which is when he got out.

[gigantes]

They deserve what they get for entering this stupid religion in the first place.
no, a lot of them don't. that's the whole problem.


masses of them joined before the xenu stuff was well-known in the public.

when you first get in, it's a pragmatic form of therapy that makes you feel better. each step you go further you think you're progressing along a healthy and rational path, only the rewards are a little less and the BS-factor upped slightly as you go on. eventually it begins to mess with your heard, encouraging you to think that you're being a bad church member. similar to how people get conditioned to be bullied.

it's a huge bait-and-switch with all kinds of psychological hooks to eventually turn you in to a pawn for the org.

[Hotlantadude81]

no, a lot of them don't. that's the whole problem.


masses of them joined before the xenu stuff was well-known in the public.

when you first get in, it's a pragmatic form of therapy that makes you feel better. each step you go further you think you're progressing along a healthy and rational path, only the rewards are a little less and the BS-factor upped slightly as you go on. eventually it begins to mess with your heard, encouraging you to think that you're being a bad church member. similar to how people get conditioned to be bullied.

it's a huge bait-and-switch with all kinds of psychological hooks to eventually turn you in to a pawn for the org.

I can't see myself ever getting fooled into believing in in BS like this.

But I'm a guy that never gave a shit about any religion... Even though my mom took me to church regularly as a child.

It all seems stupid to me.

[KevinNYC]

The movie points out how Scientology won its IRS exemption as a religion. They filed a ton of lawsuit and blackmailed the IRS basically.

They also mention that since we have a religious exemption as part of tax code, how do you define what a religion is? How can write the definition to exclude Scientology without excluding say, Catholicism?

I was thinking about this and it occurred to me there's a Satan in Scientology, but no God. They have Xenu who their Satan figure, who is an alien who is the cause of human suffering, but there's no deity as far as I know.

You are supposed to be able to cure yourself of disease if you "go clear" so perhaps you are the deity.

[rufuspaul]

You are supposed to be able to cure yourself of disease if you "go clear" so perhaps you are the deity.


You and LRH. There is an empty office in their headquarters waiting for his return.

[Nanners]

It was a pretty solid documentary, but I dont know how you can make a documentary about scientology without even mentioning operation snow white (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White).

[rufuspaul]

It was a pretty solid documentary, but I dont know how you can make a documentary about scientology without even mentioning operation snow white (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Snow_White).


They mentioned this towards the beginning of the doc, though I don't think they called it by name.

[Nanners]

They mentioned this towards the beginning of the doc, though I don't think they called it by name.

Oh, perhaps I missed that bit. I figured they would have talked about it when they were talking about the IRS.

[gigantes]

in the movie, miscavige did say at one point something about 'scientology clearing away rubble so as to bring you closer to god.'

LRH and he are definitely the org's demigods, in any case.

[DonDadda59]

Believing in reincarnation isn't abnormal...and people claim to get knowledge of that through meditation, NDEs, astral plane, etc etc...



Here we go.... :rolleyes:

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2010/02/11/article-1250078-009275EF00000578-531_468x513.jpg

[~primetime~]

That's YOU Don...you're the one on a mission to convert people in here

You know more about Jesus than the fckin Pope...

[KingBeasley08]

It's also worth nothing that most Scientologists don't know about the Xenu shit unless they've seen South Park. All the people being interviewed talked about how happy they were to finally reach the final level, reading it and going.. "what the f-ck"

[gigantes]

It's also worth nothing that most Scientologists don't know about the Xenu shit unless they've seen South Park. All the people being interviewed talked about how happy they were to finally reach the final level, reading it and going.. "what the f-ck"
well... it was the primary subjects who said that, about 3-4 people... and they were all middle-aged folks years out of the org who probably got to that stage a pretty long time ago.

but yeah, the xenu stuff seems to have blown up in the public eye between the mid-80's to mid-90's... way before the south park episode.

also, since anti-scientology media is considered slander within the org, they set you up to feel like a judas if you check that stuff out. if they read about the SP episode or any other critique, generally the last thing they'd want to do would be to dirty themselves with that stuff.

[Godzuki]

oh damn didn't see this thread.

honestly its hard to just believe 3 dudes, especially when they said flat out if the police came in and said any of them could leave if they're being held involuntarily, none would. brainwashed or not, that indicates none are being held against their wills, and if they're getting their asses kicked, treated like slaves, fukk'em if they can't help themselves :sleeping

[Godzuki]

and tom cruise is such a jerk off :facepalm

[KevinNYC]

Oh, perhaps I missed that bit. I figured they would have talked about it when they were talking about the IRS.
The didn't mention "Operation Snow White," but they mentioned the FBI raids and explained the fact that a bunch of people went to jail helped David Miscavige and Marty Rathbun move up in the hierarchy even though they were only in their 20s.

and the movie seems to be structured around not a full history of Scientology, but around the interviews with the high level Scientologist who left.

Also I just realized that Going Clear is a great title, since it's the goal of Scientologists, but in this case it can also mean getting clear of the Church.

[DonDadda59]

That's YOU Don...you're the one on a mission to convert people in here

:kobe:

Yet you're the one on the usual NDE astral plane bullshit in a thread about scientology.


You know more about Jesus than the fckin Pope...

Well, I know my History. Only makes sense I'd know more than some snake oil salesman in a silly hat. :confusedshrug:

[J Shuttlesworth]

I've watched most of it so far. God damn, Scientology is creepy

[gigantes]

the IMDB comments section on this film is pretty interesting.

threads full of people who've had personal brushes with the org... also a pro-scientology guy running around in other threads, trying to pick holes in other ppl's comments. he comes across as a classic internet loudmouth from about ten years ago, but i'm sure he thinks he's flaming in triumph.


btw miscavige is only 5'1." he makes cruise look like a tall man when they stand together. i'd be surprised if compensation wasn't a part of his extreme drive.

[KevinNYC]

btw miscavige is only 5'1." he makes cruise look like a tall man when they stand together.no wonder Tom Cruise will never leave.

[Derka]

Just a super-creepy organization.

[ItsMillerTime]

The fact they're still tax-exempt blows my mind. Thanks Obama.

[gigantes]

The fact they're still tax-exempt blows my mind. Thanks Obama.
yeah right, it's obama's fault.

the evil deed happened in 1993, and since then every FBI, IRS director and whoever else have had a chance to fix it.

[ItsMillerTime]

yeah right, it's obama's fault.

the evil deed happened in 1993, and since then every FBI, IRS director and whoever else have had a chance to fix it.

oh great gigantes didn't understand my meme reference.

Thanks Obama.

[gigantes]

if it's a meme then it means someone somewhere was saying that. i was therefore responding to that person!

[Sarcastic]

They probably have so much dirt on Travolta and Cruise that they couldn't leave if they wanted to.

[Duderonomy]

My girl stupidly deleted it. Anyone got a link?

[gigantes]

My girl stupidly deleted it. Anyone got a link?
it's on primewire, of course.


btw, the other day there was a pretty interesting thread of people sharing dark secrets of their hometown. one person in a midwestern town with a lot of drug / alcohol problems was saying that a lot of dilapidated property around there was being bought up under various names. turns out scientology is behind all that.

seems their plan in this particular scam is to reopen these places as rehabilitation centers. it's a terrifyingly effective strategy, really. scientology in its beginner stages is so useful and effective that you could not ask for a more helpless and willing lot of guinea pigs to become good little worker bees in future, and keep the cycle of exploitation and expansion moving right along..