Accoding to simple basketball minds, PG's dont deserve MVP.

[nathanjizzle]

The bias with these simple basketball minded people is obvious. nash didnt deserve his mvps, rose didnt deserve his mvp, curry doesnt deserve to win mvp. Is it a coincidence or is the true reason why they choose pgs as undeserving winners is because they are simple minded and judge on size, frame and position. :roll:

its obvious.

[Eric Cartman]

Rose didn't deserve the MVP over Dwight.

Curry is widely regarded as deserving of the MVP, so was Nash over Kobe and Dirk.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Nobody literally says PG's don't deserve MVP's. I can makeup stuff too by saying the complete opposite.

i.e. OP's post game is thorough and never wrong.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Just because Rose didn't deserve his doesn't mean it's a general statement against PGs winning MVPs, Curry is a deserving candidate, as was Nash. Get your shitty agenda out of here.

[kennethgriffin]

has a point guard ever carried a team to a championship without having 2-3 other hall of famers or allstars at a time


tony parker = 2-3 other HOF'rs
chauncey billups = 2-3 other allstars ( 2 other possible HOF's )
isiah thomas = 2-3 other HOF'rs
magic johnson = 3-4 other HOF'rs
bob cousy = 5-6 other HOF'rs

[BigNBAfan]

Stockton was robbed of MVPs, it's true.

[nathanjizzle]

are you guys retarded? it is often discussed here how nash doesnt deserve his mvps, how rose doesnt, and its just starting how curry doesnt over harden (thats laughable). any pg the last 20 years that won a mvp "doesnt deserve it" get real idiots.

d rose definitely deserved it, stay ignorant.

[kennethgriffin]

kobe bryant is the closest thing to a point guard that carried a team to a championship without a legendary team mate


and its only because he had to be the main playmaker AND scorer AND defender

pure point guards are overrated. theyre only as good as their help

[Eric Cartman]

has a point guard ever carried a team to a championship without having 2-3 other hall of famers or allstars at a time


tony parker = 2-3 other HOF'rs
chauncey billups = 2-3 other allstars ( 2 other possible HOF's )
isiah thomas = 2-3 other HOF'rs
magic johnson = 3-4 other HOF'rs
bob cousy = 5-6 other HOF'rs

Lay off the crack pipe, Isiah was the heart and soul of that team.

[nathanjizzle]

has a point guard ever carried a team to a championship without having 2-3 other hall of famers or allstars at a time


tony parker = 2-3 other HOF'rs
chauncey billups = 2-3 other allstars ( 2 other possible HOF's )
isiah thomas = 2-3 other HOF'rs
magic johnson = 3-4 other HOF'rs
bob cousy = 5-6 other HOF'rs

thats just a nonsensical reason. Every championship team has 2-3 hall of famers:roll: with the exception of the detroit pistons, there goes your theory. If that was the case, then centers arnt as valuable, because any championship team a center needed another hall of famer to win.

stay ignorant

[SouBeachTalents]

has a point guard ever carried a team to a championship without having 2-3 other hall of famers or allstars at a time


tony parker = 2-3 other HOF'rs
chauncey billups = 2-3 other allstars ( 2 other possible HOF's )
isiah thomas = 2-3 other HOF'rs
magic johnson = 3-4 other HOF'rs
bob cousy = 5-6 other HOF'rs

How many players have won a championship without someone who'd eventually make the HOF? Hakeem in '94? Barry in '75?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

are you guys retarded? it is often discussed here how nash doesnt deserve his mvps, how rose doesnt, and its just starting how curry doesnt over harden (thats laughable). any pg the last 20 years that won a mvp "doesnt deserve it" get real idiots.

d rose definitely deserved it, stay ignorant.

Dwight > Rose. Stay mad.

Nash deserved his, or was at the very least a completely deserving candidate. We went through this in those threads, he was a lights out shooter who turned a 20-win team into a juggernaut, his value is unquestionable.

If Curry win he'll deserve his.

[nathanjizzle]

stay ignorant everybody, im out, gotta head back to work.

[nathanjizzle]

Dwight > Rose. Stay mad.

Nash deserved his, or was at the very least a completely deserving candidate. We went through this in those threads, he was a lights out shooter who turned a 20-win team into a juggernaut, his value is unquestionable.

If Curry win he'll deserve his.

good for you?

[kennethgriffin]

Lay off the crack pipe, Isiah was the heart and soul of that team.


yes he was... and he had

joe dumars ( HOF )
dennis rodman ( HOF )
bill laimbeer ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
mark aguirre ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
vinnie johnson ( Legendar 6th man )

[kennethgriffin]

How many players have won a championship without someone who'd eventually make the HOF? Hakeem in '94? Barry in '75?

thats not my point

i said they all had 2-3 other HOF'rs or allstars at a time



you should only need 1 other hof'r tops if you're truly a legend


the fact that no PG has ever done it as leader says allot

[Eric Cartman]

yes he was... and he had

joe dumars ( HOF )
dennis rodman ( HOF )
bill laimbeer ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
mark aguirre ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
vinnie johnson ( Legendar 6th man )

Yeah it was a great team, but so is every single championship team in history, aside from the Barry '75.

09-10 Lakers had Pau (HOF) and Odom (All star level) with the GOAT coach, Hakeem had Drexler and a silly amount of shooters, same with the Mavs in 2011, they all had great chemistry and the complementary players showed up when it mattered most. Talking about that, Kobe in game 7, where his team won DESPITE of him. Artest, Fisher, Odom willed that team to win.

[Pointguard]

Rose didn't deserve the MVP over Dwight.

Curry is widely regarded as deserving of the MVP, so was Nash over Kobe and Dirk.
Nobody got more than five first place votes when Rose won his. Howard got four or five first place votes. Rose over a 100. Harden will easily get more first place votes than Howard and deservedly so.

[Eric Cartman]

Nobody got more than five first place votes when Rose won his. Howard got four or five first place votes. Rose over a 100. Harden will easily get more first place votes than Howard and deservedly so.

It's a media award, guards are flashier and get more attention from ESPN, bigs are disrespected.

Westbrook has a monster game, everyone is on his dick, Cousins has a monster game, no one gives a shit.

That's why Shaq has only 1 MVP.

[kennethgriffin]

thats just a nonsensical reason. Every championship team has 2-3 hall of famers:roll: with the exception of the detroit pistons, there goes your theory. If that was the case, then centers arnt as valuable, because any championship team a center needed another hall of famer to win.

stay ignorant


nearly every team DOES have 2 HOF'rs indeed


i said those PG's had 2-3 other HOF'rs not even counting themselves



guys who won with 1 other HOF'r ( 2 total on a team ) as leader since just 1980


- Kobe Bryant SG
- Dirk Nowitzki PF
- Shaquille Oneal C
- Tim Duncan PF
- Michael Jordan SG
- Hakeem Olajuwon C
- Moses Malone C


its obvious PG's arent as valuable

[kennethgriffin]

It's a media award, guards are flashier and get more attention from ESPN, bigs are disrespected.

Westbrook has a monster game, everyone is on his dick, Cousins has a monster game, no one gives a shit.

That's why Shaq has only 1 MVP.


yeah eh.. they gave that flashy kobe bryant so many awards


LOL

wtf dude...

duncan = 2 mvps.. hes 1000 times less flashy than shaq


it has nothing to do with being flashy..


the mvp is a regular season record award ( team with the best record that has an mvp candidate the media like ) and it could be for A) their skin colour B) their story C) their stats D) their investment

[Eric Cartman]

yeah eh.. they gave that flashy kobe bryant so many awards


LOL

wtf dude...

duncan = 2 mvps.. hes 1000 times less flashy than shaq


it has nothing to do with being flashy..


the mvp is a regular season record award ( team with the best record that has an mvp candidate the media like ) and it could be for A) their skin colour B) their story C) their stats D) their investment

Kobe wasn't gonna get MVP's playing alongside Shaq, latter years he was a beast but his team record was subpar, also was injured one of those years, then won in 2008, after that Lebron surpassed him as a better player.

[Pointguard]

It's a media award, guards are flashier and get more attention from ESPN, bigs are disrespected.

Westbrook has a monster game, everyone is on his dick, Cousins has a monster game, no one gives a shit.

That's why Shaq has only 1 MVP.
Shaq always got a lot of MVP votes. Centers have the majority of the awards position wise. He rarely only got four like Howard. Howard was the perfect example of how not to win the award. Lack of leadership, weak play after the all star game, weak play against better teams, embarrassed his owner and front office when another MVP candidate called the administration out and told them he was going to embarrass the team, Howard lost his team in consequence of this, the best basketball minds (Pop and Phil) came out strong for Rose as MVP, along with the main other MVP candidate, and almost every player that chimed in said it was Rose. Seriously it was only the lost that thought Howard was even a candidate.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe wasn't gonna get MVP's playing alongside Shaq, latter years he was a beast but his team record was subpar, also was injured one of those years, then won in 2008, after that Lebron surpassed him as a better player.

kobe cant win with shaq. but lebron can win with wade/bosh/allen

kobe cant win in 2003. but jordan can win in 1988

kobe cant win in 2006 or 2007, but westbrook has a legit shot in 2015

kobe cant win in 2009 when hes the obvious better player with 1 less win (out west) than a guy ( in the east ).... but lebron can win in 2012 without a top 3 record just based on being "the best player"

and in 2009 kobe was infact the best player. the playoffs and finals showed that even more than the regular season

that was kobes time. his run as champion/finals mvp in 3 straight finals. it was his league.

kobe either deserved multiple mvps for carrying a bad team to the playoffs in 06,07 ... or deserved multiple mvps for carrying an adequate team to multiple championships/3 straight finals out of a way tougher confrence


it wouldn't be so bad if kobe had even just 1 more mvp

but with jordan/lebron criteria kobe might have won it in 2003,2006,2007,2008,2009

[Pointguard]

yes he was... and he had

joe dumars ( HOF )
dennis rodman ( HOF )
bill laimbeer ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
mark aguirre ( prime ALL-STAR, should be HOF )
vinnie johnson ( Legendar 6th man )
In all fairness not one of them were close to being allstars when the Piston's won their first ring. And at no point in their careers could any one of them be much of a player without a great player like Isiah next to them. Rodman was a 9 and 9 guy. Dumars a 17 and 6 guy. And Isiah carried that team the year before as well.

[beastee]

Very rarely is the best player on a championship NBA team under 6' 6". History shows that. But they have won some mvps and are generally debated it seems.

Isiah, MJ, Wade really stand out as the best players on their teams playing solely the guard position at 6'6" or under that won championships.

Any player under 6'6" who wins the mvp really has overcome some great odds, but they rarely win a championship as THE MAN. (Jordan being the real exception here)

[nba_55]

Weak thread because most in here have curry as the mvp.

Fail

[ralph_i_el]

kobe bryant is the closest thing to a point guard that carried a team to a championship without a legendary team mate


and its only because he had to be the main playmaker AND scorer AND defender

pure point guards are overrated. theyre only as good as their help

What year was this?

[nathanjizzle]

nearly every team DOES have 2 HOF'rs indeed


i said those PG's had 2-3 other HOF'rs not even counting themselves



guys who won with 1 other HOF'r ( 2 total on a team ) as leader since just 1980


- Kobe Bryant SG
- Dirk Nowitzki PF
- Shaquille Oneal C
- Tim Duncan PF
- Michael Jordan SG
- Hakeem Olajuwon C
- Moses Malone C


its obvious PG's arent as valuable

papovich and phil jackson are hall of fame coaches, thats 3 hall of famers for kobe shaq, tim duncan michael jordon.

[Solefade]

why are there no PGs in top 10 GOATs?

[nathanjizzle]

why are there no PGs in top 10 GOATs?

size discrimination.

[kennethgriffin]

papovich and phil jackson are hall of fame coaches, thats 3 hall of famers for kobe shaq, tim duncan michael jordon.

A) if you could count... adding 1 to 1 = 2 for them.. unless you're counting themselves as a HOF teammate

B) every PG i listed ( parker, billups, thomas, magic, cousy ) all also had legendary coaches

so even if you added 1 for kobe,shaq,duncan,jordan... 1 gets added to the PG's aswell and they still have a major advantage in help

C) coaches arent teammates


you lose again

[kennethgriffin]

What year was this?


really?

2000 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2001 - assist leader, all defensive 2nd team
2002 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2009 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2010 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team



bolded being top scorer

[kennethgriffin]

nobody under the height of 6-5 is a top 25 player all time


1. Michael Jordan

2. Bill Russell

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

4. Earvin Magic Johnson

5. Kobe Bryant

6. Wilt Chamberlain

7. Tim Duncan

8. Larry Bird

9. Shaquille O'Neal

10. Hakeem Olajuwon

11. Lebron James

12. Oscar Robertson

13. Moses Malone

14. Jerry West

15. Julius Erving

16. George Mikan

17. Bob Pettit

18. Karl Malone

19. Kevin Garnett

20. Elgin Baylor

21. John Havlicek

22. Dirk Nowitzki

23. Charles Barkley

24. David Robinson

25. Scottie Pippen





sorry... traditional PG's ( 6-4 and under ) are not deserving of MVP's

[24-Inch_Chrome]

why are there no PGs in top 10 GOATs?

Magic? Oscar is 10-15ish too.

[kennethgriffin]

Magic? Oscar is 10-15ish too.


theyre not traditional point guards


oscar especially for playing in the 60's... 6-5 even in todays league is a shooting guard.. back then it was like playing small forward and rarely sometimes power forward


which is why guys like elgin baylor could grab nearly 20 rebounds per game.. oscar over 10rpg

[Budadiiii]

Magic? Oscar is 10-15ish too.
Magic was almost 7 feet tall and very efficient.

Kinda proves the point that most PG's have limited impact. Big mans game.

[kennethgriffin]

Magic was almost 7 feet tall and very efficient.

Kinda proves the point that most PG's have limited impact. Big mans game.

which makes jordan/kobe that much more impressive for being shooting guards in the top 5-6 all time. jordan arguable goat

[24-Inch_Chrome]

which makes jordan/kobe that much more impressive for being shooting guards in the top 5-6 all time. jordan arguable goat

:roll:

Jordan is top-2, GOAT in the eyes of many. Kobe is borderline top-10 if that.

Get your goofy Kobe agenda out of here.

[ralph_i_el]

really?

2000 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2001 - assist leader, all defensive 2nd team
2002 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2009 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team
2010 - assist leader, all defensive 1st team



bolded being top scorer

Lol in 09 and 10 he was second on the team in WS, and his defensive 1st team wins were a joke because most of the time he didn't even guard his opponents best perimeter player :roll:

and the first 3 times he obviously wasn't the #1 scorer....because he played with the superior Shaq.

[kennethgriffin]

:roll:

Jordan is top-2, GOAT in the eyes of many. Kobe is borderline top-10 if that.

Get your goofy Kobe agenda out of here.


even if you were correct in assuming kobe was "barely top 10"


you'd still have to give it up and should quite honestly virtually suck the mans **** for overcoming "a big mans game" to reach that high of a spot all time


laughing at a 6-5 SG for being top 10 when its littered with guys 6-10 and up is somewhat






"hating" ..... you jelly?

:roll:

btw... the world sees kobe closer to top 5 than "barely top 10" btw

so best case scenario ... its unfathomable for a 6-5 SG to reach that high...
and worst case scenario... its unfathomable for a 6-5 SG to reach that high...

either way its a compliment

[kennethgriffin]

Lol in 09 and 10 he was second on the team in WS, and his defensive 1st team wins were a joke because most of the time he didn't even guard his opponents best perimeter player :roll:

and the first 3 times he obviously wasn't the #1 scorer....because he played with the superior Shaq.


you've officially entered the "flustered zone"


:roll: broke this f*ggot in half with logic and facts

[ralph_i_el]

you've officially entered the "flustered zone"


:roll: broke this f*ggot in half with logic and facts

except you "logic and facts" proved yourself wrong....

you said he was the #1 scorer, play maker, and defender on his championship teams. 3 times he wasn't the #1 scorer. One of those times he had Ron Artest taking the toughest assignments. So maybe you're arguably right for ONE out of five of his championships.

and Kobe's all-defense nods are widely regarded as a joke. You know the Lakers hid him from tough defensive assignments for YEARS.

[kennethgriffin]

except you "logic and facts" proved yourself wrong....

you said he was the #1 scorer, play maker, and defender on his championship teams. 3 times he wasn't the #1 scorer. One of those times he had Ron Artest taking the toughest assignments. So maybe you're arguably right for ONE out of five of his championships.

and Kobe's all-defense nods are widely regarded as a joke. You know the Lakers hid him from tough defensive assignments for YEARS.


i wasnt refering to all 5 jackass

:roll:


kobe was

a) THE #1 scorer on the 2009, 2010 lakers

B) THE #1 assist leader on the 2009, 2010 lakers

c) THE #1 defensive player on the 2009,2010 lakers


your argument is


a) points dont matter.
b) assists dont matter.
c) all defensive 1st teams dont matter.



you sire.... are a hating jealous r*tard

good day sir ... or madam

:lol :cheers:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

even if you were correct in assuming kobe was "barely top 10"


you'd still have to give it up and should quite honestly virtually suck the mans **** for overcoming "a big mans game" to reach that high of a spot all time


laughing at a 6-5 SG for being top 10 when its littered with guys 6-10 and up is somewhat






"hating" ..... you jelly?

:roll:

btw... the world sees kobe closer to top 5 than "barely top 10" btw

so best case scenario ... its unfathomable for a 6-5 SG to reach that high...
and worst case scenario... its unfathomable for a 6-5 SG to reach that high...

either way its a compliment

He's top-10 to top-15, there's a big difference between Jordan being #1 at 6'6" and Kobe slotting in at 10-15 at 6'5". Jerry West is in that same general ranking area at 6'2". Oscar is there at 6'5". Much less exclusive as far as height than the top-10.

Anyway, this topic was about PGs and the MVP award. Your retarded Kobe agenda turned it into a chance to blow your idol publicly.

[ralph_i_el]

i wasnt refering to all 5 jackass

:roll:


kobe was

a) THE #1 scorer on the 2009, 2010 lakers

B) THE #1 assist leader on the 2009, 2010 lakers

c) THE #1 defensive player on the 2009,2010 lakers


your argument is


a) points dont matter.
b) assists dont matter.
c) all defensive 1st teams dont matter.



you sire.... are a hating jealous r*tard

good day sir ... or madam

:lol :cheers:

:facepalm and you ignore everything I actually said.

1st: You said he had no legendary teammates....in TWO SEASONS WHERE HE HAD A HOF TEAMMATE THAT HAD MORE WS THAN HIM :facepalm

2nd: You completely refuse to acknowledge that Kobe was hidden from tough assignments, and that Artest was a better defender. I seem to remember Ariza chasing around the toughest wings in the other year:roll:

3rd: What? When did I say anything about points and assists not mattering? I just said Kobe has joke all-D awards (truth)

You've been making a fool of yourself on here for like 6 years :roll: you still don't get it

[kennethgriffin]

He's top-10 to top-15, there's a big difference between Jordan being #1 at 6'6" and Kobe slotting in at 10-15 at 6'5". Jerry West is in that same general ranking area at 6'2". Oscar is there at 6'5". Much less exclusive as far as height than the top-10.

Anyway, this topic was about PGs and the MVP award. Your retarded Kobe agenda turned it into a chance to blow your idol publicly.


oh yeah eh? so he just dropped from barely a top 10 player on your list to top 15

lol... guess what f*ggot


no player under 6-5 is in the top 25 all time

you can drop him on your fake list down to "barely top 15-20"

and its STIIIIIIIILLLLLL AMAAAAAZING



:roll: :cheers:


you hurting yet?


i know where kobe ranks all time in most peoples eyes... just knowing that a hater thinks kobe is amazingly high all time is good enough for me

[kennethgriffin]

:facepalm and you ignore everything I actually said.

1st: You said he had no legendary teammates....in TWO SEASONS WHERE HE HAD A HOF TEAMMATE THAT HAD MORE WS THAN HIM :facepalm

2nd: You completely refuse to acknowledge that Kobe was hidden from tough assignments, and that Artest was a better defender. I seem to remember Ariza chasing around the toughest wings in the other year:roll:

3rd: What? When did I say anything about points and assists not mattering? I just said Kobe has joke all-D awards (truth)

You've been making a fool of yourself on here for like 6 years :roll: you still don't get it


"FLUSTERED ZONE!"

ALERT!

"FLUSTERED ZONE!"

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[ralph_i_el]

"FLUSTERED ZONE!"

ALERT!

"FLUSTERED ZONE!"

:roll: :roll: :roll:

You're a 35 year old man with the mental faculties of a 4th grader, and a hooker for a girlfriend.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

oh yeah eh? so he just dropped from barely a top 10 player on your list to top 15

lol... guess what f*ggot


no player under 6-5 is in the top 25 all time

you can drop him on your fake list down to "barely top 15-20"

and its STIIIIIIIILLLLLL AMAAAAAZING



:roll: :cheers:


you hurting yet?

I said he was borderline top-10 if that, borderline implies that he's not actually there; he's on the cusp. Right past the top-10 is the 10-15 bracket, where he does fall. Along with Jerry West and Oscar Robertson.

Jerry West makes it into the top-25, he was 6'2"...is 6'2" no longer under 6'5"?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You're a 35 year old man with the mental faculties of a 4th grader, and a hooker for a girlfriend.

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[kennethgriffin]

I said he was borderline top-10 if that, borderline implies that he's not actually there; he's on the cusp. Right past the top-10 is the 10-15 bracket, where he does fall. Along with Jerry West and Oscar Robertson.

Jerry West makes it into the top-25, he was 6'2"...is 6'2" no longer under 6'5"?


suuuuuure

http://i59.tinypic.com/s0zhol.jpg


and my grandfather was 6 feet at his peak. then at jerry wests age the man was 5-9

you lose 2-3 inches as you age into your 60's, 70's


so if west is a fraction shorter than kobe in a photo. chances are he was taller back in the day



and maybe his height is "without inflated new age heights" and "measured in shoes"


so for all we know kobe/jordan are really around 6-3


who knows


all i know is with todays shoe/infated height measurement.. jerry west would have gotten a 6-5 or 6-6


and i remember profiles of west being 6-7

[kennethgriffin]

You're a 35 year old man with the mental faculties of a 4th grader, and a hooker for a girlfriend.


30*


"griffmoney1984"

do the math you flustered mad man

:cheers:

[ralph_i_el]

30*


"griffmoney1984"

do the math you flustered mad man

:cheers:

I'm glad you agree with the rest of my statement:applause:

[ISHGoat]

I'm glad you agree with the rest of my statement:applause:

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

griff with more losses than the knicks this year

[kennethgriffin]

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

griff with more losses than the knicks this year


" no i didnt get more losses than the knicks this year"

there...

i avoided more losses by directly engaging a loss

:roll:

****in ISH

i destroy them all with logic and reason. they come back at me with trolling delusional hatred and envy/jokes


can't battle me with actual wits though :no:

[ralph_i_el]

can't battle me with actual wits though :no:

Why would we? There's no honor in fighting an unarmed man...

[kennethgriffin]

Why would we? There's no honor in fighting an unarmed man...

- said the american

[kennethgriffin]

lol@ dropping 2 nuclear bombs on 2 entire cities of "unarmed" women and children



they said the good guys won WW2...

:lol

how is that any better than killing jews... atleast hitler actually went through everyone and only picked out the ones he didn't like before killing a bunch of people

:roll:

[ralph_i_el]

lol@ dropping 2 nuclear bombs on 2 entire cities of "unarmed" women and children



they said the good guys won WW2...

:lol

how is that any better than killing jews... atleast hitler actually went through everyone and only picked out the ones he didn't like before killing a bunch of people

:roll:
Lol meltdown much? Google "Operation Downfall" and then tell me how inhumane the nukes were:facepalm

Again, you're a moron.