Basketball rule I'm not clear on...

[iamgine]

How much shoulder contact constitutes an offensive foul?

Should this be a foul:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/yAVGRW.gif

or this:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vbXOgW.gif

Forget the stationery/moving defender part. Can you just slam your shoulder as hard as you can into a defensive player?

[FKAri]

Rules? There are no "actual" rules. It's all for entertainment. Refs step in when things go off script tho.

[BigNBAfan]

Bigs get hacked way more than guards, unfair but true. Shaq, Dwight etc. all get beat up in the paint, they're the only ones that should be able to b!tch to the refs. Bigger the player, the more impact they can take, that seems to be the ref's philosophy.

But in regards to that play - that was a miscall, even pop got a T for giving it to the refs.

[navy]

Both are flops so it's hard to tell.

[ILLsmak]

Supposedly it's lowering the shoulder. And it depends on the person and situation. You really can bump into someone and knock them back, it happens all of the time. You can even do it with your side/shoulder and not get called for it.

The whole 'shoulder' issue is just something people added in, I think. It's a judgment call. I guess it came from too many people doing shit like dudes in movies that are trying to break down doors.

Like there is a difference between what Shaq did to Dikembe and lowering the shoulder. When you see Shaq pound into Dikembe in slomo you can tell that it probably was a foul, but in play, he did it without making making a kind of uppercut with his shoulder. That's when it becomes a surefire foul. Even on dudes like LeBron.

-Smak

[Akrazotile]

First one's a foul, second one's play on. IMO.

[UK2K]

If you dip your shoulder into the defender, its a foul.

Now if you dip your shoulder and don't put it directly into the defenders chest, you're good.

[3peated]

don't worry. the refs aren't clear on it either.

[Achilleas]

if you go with the shoulder with power it it foul,the problem is you can never evaluate the power ,so if a big do this most of the time is a foul and if a pg do this they will not call it

[iamgine]

Thing is, sometimes I meet people on the basketball court who do this body slam:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vbXOgW.gif

everytime they drive, then claim foul because defense was moving when they make contact. I always thought it can't be right but I don't really know the actual rule for this.

[chips93]

Thing is, sometimes I meet people on the basketball court who do this body slam:

http://share.gifyoutube.com/vbXOgW.gif

everytime they drive, then claim foul because defense was moving when they make contact. I always thought it can't be right but I don't really know the actual rule for this.

i think its really up to the discretion of the referee

however, its worth noting that you dont have to be stationary to draw a charge, the rulebook just says that you have to be 'established'.

i think in the above gif, the guard initiates the contact, and he is out of control so it should be a charge.

its true what people say about the block/charge being the toughest call for referees

[JimmyMcAdocious]

imo, a lot has to due with what the defender decides to do. On the Kanter play when you first asked this in the other thread, Gobert could have taken the charge if he wanted and I'm pretty sure it would have been called.

Hijack, but since we're somewhat on topic...

I've seen this in college. Not sure about the NBA.

What about fouling without time coming off the clock? Intentionally fouling before the inbounds is shots and the ball. But sometimes you see the ref call the defender holding the offensive player, or something like that, and they get the foul with no time being wasted. How do they determine what the call is in that situation?

[T_L_P]

Both are flops so it's hard to tell.

The Kings homer commentators were astounded that it wasn't called an offensive foul. :facepalm

[navy]

The Kings homer commentators were astounded that it wasn't called an offensive foul. :facepalm
Not sure what you mean by this...

the natural response to a that move by Cousins is probably to make Duncan take a step back not fall over. That's a flop. In fact watch it closely. There is a pause between the hit and the fall where Duncan decided to fall over and hell even flew a bit further than he probably should have.

[T_L_P]

Not sure what you mean by this...

the natural response to a that move by Cousins is probably to make Duncan take a step back not fall over. That's a flop. In fact watch it closely. There is a pause between the hit and the fall where Duncan decided to fall over and hell even flew a bit further than he probably should have.

You said you can't tell whether it's an offensive foul because "it's a flop".

Really? You can't tell if that was an offensive foul? It's not the ref's job to make calls based on how players react. DeMarcus lowered his shoulder and plowed into Duncan. That's the literal definition of an offensive foul. The Kings commentators knew it, I know it, and you know.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVVaMEHmvAE

1:05.

But you can't tell?