Imagine this scenario

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron has been sent back in time

Lebron dribbles to ball down to the half court, it's 1996 and the NBA's Illegal Defense rules still exist. Lebron signals his guys to clear out as he moves to the right wing ready to operate 1 on 1 with his defender. He proceeds to backdown his man defender for 15 straight seconds before a left-handed hook-shot from 5 feet from the basket for an easy basket

The next possession he does the exact same thing, except this time the defense opts to double team. Lebron being the cerebral basketball mind that he is locates the open man and hits him for a wide open jumper

The 3rd possession he does exactly the same thing, except the defense tries to sag off in a help defense fashion. The defense is called for Illegal defense and the 24 shot clock is reset. If they do so again Lebron's team will get free throws.

Illegal defense era in a nutshell. Man to man or double

[3ball]

He proceeds to backdown his man defender for 15 straight seconds before a left-handed hook-shot from 5 feet from the basket for an easy basket



You mean like this:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif


The only reason this type of play isn't run on every single possession in today's game is because the NBA changed the rules to increase the percentages on penetration and ball movement, so these options are usually preferred over post-ups.
.

[ralph_i_el]

B-b-b-but what about 3 second rules?

I'll have to consult Stu Jackson on this one bud:lol

[Chadwin]

except that wouldn't happen because he would be worn out by the end of the first quarter

[dubeta]

Good thread, LeBron would dominate

[Im Still Ballin]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif

In this GIF you posted 3ball, this would be considered illegal defense as the strong side 2nd defender is clearly below the free throw line

To avoid Illegal defense he'd either have to stay above the free throw line or aggressively double team Lebron, thus leaving Kevin Love wide open. The subtle help defense we see today is considered Illegal Defense in prior eras

[BigBoss]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif

In this GIF you posted 3ball, this would be considered illegal defense as the strong side 2nd defender is clearly below the free throw line

To avoid Illegal defense he'd either have to stay above the free throw line or aggressively double team Lebron, thus leaving Kevin Love wide open. The subtle help defense we see today is considered Illegal Defense in prior eras

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif

In this GIF you posted 3ball, this would be considered illegal defense as the strong side 2nd defender is clearly below the free throw line


Previous era the defenders were allowed to straddle the paint, exactly like Harrison Barnes is doing.

[Im Still Ballin]

Previous era the defenders were allowed to straddle the paint, exactly like Harrison Barnes is doing.
Incorrect

If his man defender is situated at the 3 point line or above, Harrison Barnes MUST be above the free throw line or he will be in violation of Illegal Defense Rules

[3ball]

.
Now in previous eras, defenders would not be standing behind the 3-point line spreading the floor and clearing the lane:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/fa322e569c8c0b0e413a45e58bb9e54a.gif




Instead, defenders would be packing the paint because they didn't have to guard the 3-point line AND paint-camping was legal:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8c58ee0eb321312606e61f07b74f8312.gif

[BigBoss]

Previous era the defenders were allowed to straddle the paint, exactly like Harrison Barnes is doing.

Incorrect

If his man defender is situated at the 3 point line or above, Harrison Barnes MUST be above the free throw line or he will be in violation of Illegal Defense Rules

[3ball]

.
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/10f1c13acb043d8be838b7cd90e5c5fd.gif


The GIF above and below shows the standard defensive setup in this spot - spacing and defensive 3 seconds ensure that there are NO DEFENDERS IN THE PAINT:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/8cfb1f5cd6acc974960d916586e49b4a.gif



Otoh, the setup below shows 3 DEFENDERS IN THE PAINT because paint-camping was legal and the defense didn't have to guard the 3-point line:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c27a7589bc4681278938f85dbb781f40.gif


This type of example is standard and there are thousands more, whereas it's impossible to find REVERSE examples where today's paint is more packed that previous eras.

[3ball]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif


The spacing and defensive 3 seconds gives Lebron all the time in the world



Compare the difference.. MJ must deal with paint-campers (David Robinson, Duncan, Ostertag) and also defenders helping from closer distances (no spacing) - accordingly, he has to ACT FASTER, and use a superior move:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/af74f33851c4e8d2c698212f0a5f174b.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/96dab71086245b7d9abe001570cf9cf8.gif

[Chadwin]

Compare the difference.. MJ must deal with paint-campers (David Robinson, Duncan, Ostertag) and also defenders helping from closer distances (no spacing) - accordingly, he has to ACT FASTER, and use a superior move:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/af74f33851c4e8d2c698212f0a5f174b.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/96dab71086245b7d9abe001570cf9cf8.gif

OP is not talking about the scenarios in these gifs.

[3ball]

Had enough Big Boss?

I feel like I'm Don Dadda whooping that ass

[3ball]

OP is not talking about the scenarios in these gifs.


what is he talking about then..

is he trying to say that previous era players posted up for 15 seconds at a time?

that never happened.

otoh, i just showed how Lebron benefits from spacing and the ban on paint-camping - even though everyone already knows this.

[Crose]

Had enough Big Boss?

I feel like I'm Don Dadda whooping that ass
because you are don dadda. only you 2 suck jordan off that much, post those gifs and recycle posts

[Im Still Ballin]

what is he talking about then..

is he trying to say that previous era players posted up for 15 seconds at a time?

that never happened.

otoh, i just showed how Lebron benefits from spacing and the ban on paint-camping - even though everyone already knows this.
You clearly didn't watch Kevin Johnson or Charles Barkley

[Chadwin]

what is he talking about then..

is he trying to say that previous era players posted up for 15 seconds at a time?

that never happened.

otoh, i just showed how Lebron benefits from spacing and the ban on paint-camping - even though everyone already knows this.

The four other guys would all be 25 feet from the basket.

[3ball]

You clearly didn't watch Kevin Johnson or Charles Barkley
Anyone can go watch highlights of Barkley games right now - he never posted up for 15 seconds.

That's a myth.

And anyone can go watch highlights of ANY player from previous eras - they didn't post up like that.. They didn't have TIME to - there was no spacing so defenders were in much closer proximity..

That's why you made a thread titled "it's all about the spacing"... because you KNOW that without spacing, the defenders don't have to "come over" to help - they're already there.

[3ball]

The four other guys would all be 25 feet from the basket.
again, that never happened (4 players stationing themselves behind the 3-point line, or 25 feet away, as you say).

you do realize that in say, 1985, teams only averaged two 3-point attempts per game, compared to 22 per game today.

so teams usually had ZERO players behind the 3-point line.. let alone 4.

this is just a fact - go watch any game - teams didn't shoot 3-pointers, so the scenario you describe is pure poppycok

[Chadwin]

again, that never happened (4 players stationing themselves behind the 3-point line, or 25 feet away, as you say).

you do realize that in say, 1985, teams only averaged two 3-point attempts per game, compared to 22 per game today.

so teams usually had ZERO players behind the 3-point line.. let alone 4.

this is just a fact - go watch any game - teams didn't shoot 3-pointers, so the scenario you describe is pure poppycok

I don't care what actually happened. This is a hypothetical scenario.

[3ball]

.
Now which guy do you think would have more problems in the other's era?.. :confusedshrug:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c33b0be11565b94476f8e7a7e9902217.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/832a26d5ea87f83465b92fe12837530b.gif


Uh oh... I'm on top of Big Boss again... grounding and pounding the **** out of his ass

[3ball]

I don't care what actually happened. This is a hypothetical scenario.


what actually happened is what's important..

Because that's what Lebron would have to face if he went back in time - none of his teammates would be spreading the floor for him and he'd face packed paints... he'd better have some sort of mid-range game... :confusedshrug:

Coaches were actually quite dumb in previous eras - not only did they not space the floor, but their approach of positioning offensive players inside the 3-point line and closer to the rim activated the legal paint-camping provision stipulated in Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines - this rule allowed defenders to paint-camp with no time restriction if their man was in the paint already, or within 3 feet of either side.
.

[DonDadda59]

:oldlol:

Instead of Boris Diaw playing 5 feet off of him at all times letting him get wide open jumpers, imagine instead of a broken down old Kobe making him look like a middle schooler by pressuring him full court and handchecking him:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/ExFD4S.gif

It's a prime Pippen instead.

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/3-27-2015/d7ZkI6.gif

He'd look worse than his 2011 finals self. Imagine indeed.

[3ball]

a broken down old Kobe making him look like a middle schooler by pressuring him full court and handchecking him:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/ExFD4S.gif



Your GIF ^^^^ shows SF speed vs. guard speed right there - and Lebron gives Kobe ZERO MOVES - what did he think, that Kobe would back down?

Jordan would've given Kobe some kind of move to shake loose - just like he does to both Dumars and Rodman here - (in-out dribble early, behind the back late)


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/e321399e745e41d60f3ee4f836c261ff.gif


First MJ does an in-out dribble to create a little separation from Dumars and Rodman, then he goes behind the back and breaks both defenders
.

[DonDadda59]

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/911d3cac30b219754c53b4b156428f49.gif

In this GIF you posted 3ball, this would be considered illegal defense as the strong side 2nd defender is clearly below the free throw line

To avoid Illegal defense he'd either have to stay above the free throw line or aggressively double team Lebron, thus leaving Kevin Love wide open. The subtle help defense we see today is considered Illegal Defense in prior eras

:facepalm


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-01-2015/WJfp23.gif

1992^. Also note Ewing doesn't leave the paint once, he's not playing a man. No illegal D was called.

Stop making threads.


Your GIF ^^^^ shows SF speed vs. guard speed right there - and Lebron gives Kobe ZERO MOVES - what did he think, that Kobe would back down?

Jordan would have given Kobe some kind of move to shake loose - kind of like he does to both Dumars and Rodman here:


Bron has limited one on one skills (and his off ball skills are nonexistent). He's lucky that teams don't play full court defense or pressure ball handlers like they used to otherwise you'd see a whole lot more plays like Kobe sonning him and this:

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/dcVahS.gif

The man is blessed he gets to play in this era that has completely freed up the perimeter.

[Im Still Ballin]

So your argument is based on no-calls that is simply bad officiating?

Lol

I might as well say that the hand-checking rule is bogus too because they don't call it (Check out last years playoffs, especially Memphis vs OKC)

And you've been exposed as 3ball so you're going to get treated as the troll you are now

[DonDadda59]

So your argument is based on no-calls that is simply bad officiating?

Don't make me bury you with articles again you clown. How many threads are you going to start that you get continuously shit on? What exactly are you hoping to accomplish? :oldlol:


Lol

I might as well say that the hand-checking rule is bogus too because they don't call it (Check out last years playoffs, especially Memphis vs OKC)

James Harden :lol

And everyone and their grandmother knows that in the playoffs refs swallow their whistles more. It's been like that since time immemorial. It's why certain fraud players' production falls in the postseason. But no one in the league today is seeing anything even remotely as physical as playoff ball in the 90s. Not even in the same area code.


And you've been exposed as 3ball so you're going to get treated as the troll you are now

:kobe:

Stop making these idiotic threads and actually learn something about basketball and then maybe you'd stop being demolished in your own threads.

[3ball]

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/dcVahS.gif



Lebron's attempt to go full court and behind the back was a bad idea - too many moves and clutch required - neither of which are his thing - I think he was trying to do this:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/1ae882a0d15c0e3e18ca2dc3cc99fbde.gif


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/19a8ee27b137cb9a8545a4cfd4301b4b.gif

[warriorfan]

http://www.culbersonfh.com/website_images/homepage_casket.jpg

[3ball]

:facepalm

note Ewing

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-01-2015/WJfp23.gif



Completely standard for Ewing - he was a habitual paint-camper:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/c2bdc97f50bdc6f9fb0d44ff4f53f8f6.gif




So was Larry Nance and Brad Daughtery


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/d0cee9725bfc493b8b23151879aa2838.gif




So was the entire Piston team


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/54cd4db17a9330ca58b8e33a0b6f9b2f.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/728b10a2dca8fca89dca89f115243b29.gif


Night-and-day superior paint defense than today's spacing and defensive 3.
.

[sekachu]

Lebron has been sent back in time

Lebron dribbles to ball down to the half court, it's 1996 and the NBA's Illegal Defense rules still exist. Lebron signals his guys to clear out as he moves to the right wing ready to operate 1 on 1 with his defender. He proceeds to backdown his man defender for 15 straight seconds before a left-handed hook-shot from 5 feet from the basket for an easy basket

The next possession he does the exact same thing, except this time the defense opts to double team. Lebron being the cerebral basketball mind that he is locates the open man and hits him for a wide open jumper

The 3rd possession he does exactly the same thing, except the defense tries to sag off in a help defense fashion. The defense is called for Illegal defense and the 24 shot clock is reset. If they do so again Lebron's team will get free throws.

Illegal defense era in a nutshell. Man to man or double



I don't get it. If you have seen MJ played, you should know he would be still unstoppable whether playing under the illegal defense or without the illegal defense when he has a better post up, midrange jumpshot, off ball movement catch and shoot and better quickness than lebron.

[3ball]

Ain't got spacing ain't got no chance


^^^^^ This was the OP from another thread you made titled: "It's all about spacing".

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=372525

So you are fully aware (like everyone else) that spacing is the most important thing - that's why i roll my eyes when you guys talk about partial zones played outside the paint, when they have a smidgen of importance compared to spacing.

It's like evaluating whether you want to accept a new job, and focusing on the wallpaper in your office (shading) rather than the salary or duties (spacing, physicality).

[Im Still Ballin]

Sweet Mary mother of Jesus

I weakside CHECKED don

Somebody call an ambo'

[DonDadda59]

Sweet Mary mother of Jesus

I weakside CHECKED don

Somebody call an ambo'

You were gang raped in your own thread for like the 100th time in a week. :oldlol:

Looking like Bron vs that advanced Diaw isolation defense

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/9AQF-K.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/eGvWe_.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/uy-41f.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/K-Lp-b.gif

http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-05-2015/tWXg7g.gif

^That's the kind of defense this guys sees in the FINALS... but can't do a damn thing against it. Imagine that. :roll:

[3ball]

The four other guys would all be 25 feet from the basket.



You mean like this:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/461e88f60959be68fcee36b801f0b808.gif


In previous eras, teams had ZERO players behind the 3-point line because teams didn't shoot 3-pointers - in 1985, teams averaged two attempts per game, compared to 22 per game today.

So the setup above is characteristic of TODAY'S game, not previous eras - you never saw the above setup in previous eras.

Coaches were actually quite dumb in previous eras - not only did they not space the floor, but their approach of positioning offensive players inside the 3-point line and closer to the rim activated the legal paint-camping provision stipulated in Rule 2b (http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html) of the Illegal Defense Guidelines - this rule allowed defenders to paint-camp with no time restriction if their man was in the paint already, or within 3 feet of either side.