LeBron has never been on a team that would make the playoffs without him.

[dubeta]

Still hasnt happened.

2010 Cavs 61 wins 1st seed

2011 Cavs 19 wins worst record in the league



2014 Heat 54 wins, 2nd seed

2015 Heat- probable lottery with a below .500 record



2015 Cavs - On a 60 win pace percentage with Lebron
2015 Cavs without LeBron 2-9, much worse defensively and offensively without LeBron


There you have it, cold hard evidence, a LeBron-less team cannot make the playoffs. So much for all the 'help' LeBron had in his career.

Which other ATGs spent their entire careers on teams that wouldnt make the playoffs without them? :applause:

[retaxis]

Still hasnt happened.

2010 Cavs 61 wins 1st seed

2011 Cavs 19 wins worst record in the league



2014 Heat 54 wins, 2nd seed

2015 Heat- probable lottery with a below .500 record



2015 Cavs - On a 60 win pace percentage with Lebron
2015 Cavs without LeBron 2-9, much worse defensively and offensively without LeBron


There you have it, cold hard evidence, a LeBron-less team cannot make the playoffs. So much for all the 'help' LeBron had in his career.

Which other ATGs spent their entire careers on teams that wouldnt make the playoffs without them? :applause:
Being a Lebron fan since his HS days I can safely say if the Heat had a Bosh who was playing..they would easily make the playoffs. Otherwise you can not underestimate Lebrons impact in making the playoffs on the cavs teams

[3ball]

2011 Cavs 19 wins worst record in the league


the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Delonte, Shaq, and Zydrunas.

Mo Williams missed 50 games... Varejao missed 55... Jamison missed 30.

So their ENTIRE ROSTER was gutted.

Btw, in each of the last 5 years, Lebron's had the ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE with 3 all-stars (except Love missed it this year due to Lebron-ball holding him down).
.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Honestly, this year's Heat even with Bosh healthy might not make the playoffs if they were in the West.

I think last year's Heat wouldn't make it in the West either without LeBron

[SugarHill]

the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Delonte, Shaq, and Zydrunas.

Mo Williams missed 50 games... Varejao missed 55... Jamison missed 30.

So their ENTIRE ROSTER was gutted.

Btw, in each of the last 5 years, Lebron's had the ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE with 3 all-stars (except Love missed it this year due to Lebron-ball holding him down).
.

hawks

lmao @ the corpses of Shaq and Big Z being factors (both retired the season after)

[Nash]

the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Delonte, Shaq, and Zydrunas.

Mo Williams missed 50 games... Varejao missed 55... Jamison missed 30.

So their ENTIRE ROSTER was gutted.

Btw, in each of the last 5 years, Lebron's had the ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE with 3 all-stars (except Love missed it this year due to Lebron-ball holding him down).
.
delonte, shaq and z were all out of the league within a year.

and cavs had already started the longest losing streak in nba history before all the injuries.

[dubeta]

the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Delonte, Shaq, and Zydrunas.

Mo Williams missed 50 games... Varejao missed 55... Jamison missed 30.

So their ENTIRE ROSTER was gutted.

Btw, in each of the last 5 years, Lebron's had the ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE with 3 all-stars (except Love missed it this year due to Lebron-ball holding him down).
.

LeBron is the sole reason his team is any good.

Meanwhile the Bulls did the same with or without Jordan, no change in their winning.

While they lost in the 2nd round in 1994, it was due to horrible officiating, or else Scottie Pippen would have led the Bulls to a 4th championship with a FMVP.

[NZStreetBaller]

Wow lebron must be amazing!!! Surely this guy would be unbeatable. Especially in the finals!!

[dubeta]

Wow lebron must be amazing!!! Surely this guy would be unbeatable. Especially in the finals!!

PM me, little boy

[BlakFrankWhite]

:applause:

[3ball]

Honestly, this year's Heat even with Bosh healthy might not make the playoffs if they were in the West.

I think last year's Heat wouldn't make it in the West either without LeBron


did i miss something?... did lebron jump ship again, this time to the west?

why are we contemplating him being in the west?

if we're saying he's in the west and if we're saying the west is so much harder, then we're conceding that the weak east is the reason for his success GETTING to the Finals - so we can discount his Finals appearances because he's in the east... :confusedshrug:

[coin24]

Wow lebron must be amazing!!! Surely this guy would be unbeatable. Especially in the finals!!


:roll: :roll: :roll:

2/5

[J Shuttlesworth]

did i miss something?... did lebron jump ship again, this time to the west?

why are we contemplating him being in the west?

if we're saying he's in the west and if we're saying the west is so much harder, then we're conceding that the weak east is the reason for his success GETTING to the Finals - so we can discount his Finals appearances because he's in the east... :confusedshrug:
Agreed. We can eliminate the finals appearances where he didn't beat the Western conference team.

2/2, you're right 3ball.

Way to completely miss the point. The point is that those teams without LeBron aren't competitive in the league or anything close to contenders. The idea that LeBron played with the "most stacked help in history", but most people accept that team wouldn't make the playoffs in the West without him... it's really telling, especially after Pippen lead his team to the ECF without Jordan. I thought you had somewhat of an IQ until I realized you didn't comprehend this.

[3ball]

but most people accept that team wouldn't make the playoffs in the West without him.


No one thinks the Heat would miss the playoffs in 2011-2014... maybe 2014 because wade was hurt.

Also, in 2011, mo williams missed 50 games... varejao missed 55... jamison missed 30.. Shaq went to another team - so guys that started - the Cavs lost their 4/5 of their starting lineup in 2011.

but keep deluding yourself about this guy - he'll catch up to Jordan yet i promise.. :rolleyes:





it's really telling, especially after Pippen lead his team to the ECF without Jordan. I thought you had somewhat of an IQ until I realized you didn't comprehend this.


I didn't comprehend it because it never happened - really bad troll attempt brah... :facepalm

The 1994 Bulls were a Kukoc walk-off miracle GW (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8NSpgbPcxoU) away from being down 3-0 and getting swept in the 2nd Round.. not the conference finals.

But then MJ returned and turned that ordinary 2nd round exit team into the greatest team of all time - we know he did that because he'd already 3-peated previously from 1991-1993 and the roster was the same (except replacing 12/10 horace with 3/15 rodman).
.

[SouBeachTalents]

The 2011-13 Heat would be a lock to make it, 2014 might be questionable

[dubeta]

The 2011-13 Heat would be a lock to make it, 2014 might be questionable


That would basically be the current heat team without Dragic, Whiteside, Deng and the other stars Miami has now

So remove those 3 stars and that's what the 2011-2013 Heat would be like without LeBron

Considering they're in the lottery with those 3 additional stars in Dragic, Whiteside, Deng, chances are they would be even worse in the last 3 years than they are now.

[knicksman]

:sleeping
bosh>>pippen
bosh>>pastprime kareem
bosh+wade>>shaq

yet 2/5

[BlakFrankWhite]

:sleeping
bosh>>pippen
bosh>>pastprime kareem
bosh+wade>>shaq

yet 2/5


:facepalm

[dubeta]

:sleeping
2/5


Winning percentage of LeBrons teams without him
:applause:

[3ball]

:facepalm
it's a fact that Lebron's had the best top talent in the league for the last 5 years.

who has a better #2 and #3 than Lebron - who's better than Wade/Bosh or Kyrie/Love?

what other #1 has 2 all-stars as support?

[knicksman]

Winning percentage of LeBrons teams without him
:applause:


:kobe:
try again bro

[SouBeachTalents]

That would basically be the current heat team without Dragic, Whiteside, Deng and the other stars Miami has now

So remove those 3 stars and that's what the 2011-2013 Heat would be like without LeBron

Considering they're in the lottery with those 3 additional stars in Dragic, Whiteside, Deng, chances are they would be even worse in the last 3 years than they are now.

No, they'd have a prime, still top 5-10 player in the league in Wade and a healthy Bosh. There's not a chance in the world that those teams don't make the playoffs in the East

[knicksman]

How about this?

Miami added bosh and bran to a 47 win team and became a 58-win team.
Compare him to other all time greats.
Magic alone and a rookie added to a 47 win team won 60 games + championship.:kobe:
Jordan+rodman added to a 45 win team and they won 72 games + championship.:kobe:

That 2/5 impact tho:kobe:

[3ball]

How about this?

Miami added bosh and bran to a 47 win team and became a 58-win team.
Compare him to other all time greats.
Magic alone and a rookie added to a 47 win team and won 60 games + championship.:kobe:
Jordan+rodman added to a 45 win team and they won 72 games + championship.:kobe:

That 2/5 impact tho:kobe:


clearly, the change in win total isn't a reliable factor - when Jordan played for the Wizards in 2002, they went from 19 to 37 wins (+18), and the roster was EXACTLY the same - no changes whatsoever..

those 18 wins is more than bosh and lebron did for the heat in 2011 - does that mean 38-year old jordan by himself is more impactful than lebron and bosh?.. there's tons of examples like this that show how the change in win total means very little in evaluating a specific player.

and look at David Robinson - no one was more impactful than him as a rookie, he led his spurs to 37 more wins or something like that.

but that didn't stop him from getting crushed when the competition moved up to the next level in the playoffs... this is how lebron is - he ALSO has been crushed several times when the competition moved up to the next level - the change in win total meant nothing.

[Quickening]

Thats why Lebron is the GOAT

[Lebron23]

Put Lebron to any teams in the NBA, and they make the playoffs.

[3ball]

Put Lebron to any teams in the NBA, and they make the playoffs.
just like any other top player

however, most guys when paired with a prime bosh would lead the heat to more than just 11 more wins in 2011 - heat only went from 47 wins in 2010, to 58 wins in 2011 - that's pathetic - most all-time greats would do FAR better than that.
.

[bobopenguin]

everytime Lebron left the team, his formal team mates got injured, retired and depressed. He is the curse.

pls stay away from GSW, LAL and BKN.

edit: pls go to rockets.

[Lebron23]

just like any other top player

however, most guys when paired with a prime bosh would lead the heat to more than just 11 more wins in 2011 - heat only went from 47 wins in 2010, to 58 wins in 2011 - that's pathetic - most all-time greats would do FAR better than that.
.


I don't care about your opinion. Go make me some Burgers!!!

[SexSymbol]

Every cavs team since 2006 would've made it.
Every heat team would've made it

[Prime_Shaq]

The Heat barring injuries this year would make the playoffs no problem. Same goes for any of the previous Heat teams. The Cavs on the other hand are a different story.

[JebronLames]

People were saying that the heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be a top 3 seed in the east with a chance to make the finals were completely wrong. They were still very weak inside, and had no one to make up for it. And all that talk about injuries, but no one talks about how fortunate they were to pick up whiteside. Aside from the most optimistic D-wade fans, it's safe to say wade's health has exceeded expectations this year.

A healthy heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be an under .500 team, and that shows how underrated LeBron was on this team, especially in the playoffs.

Obviously, a team of wade, bosh, deng, dragic, and whiteside will be a much better team next year.

[ImKobe]

People were saying that the heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be a top 3 seed in the east with a chance to make the finals were completely wrong. They were still very weak inside, and had no one to make up for it. And all that talk about injuries, but no one talks about how fortunate they were to pick up whiteside. Aside from the most optimistic D-wade fans, it's safe to say wade's health has exceeded expectations this year.

A healthy heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be an under .500 team, and that shows how underrated LeBron was on this team, especially in the playoffs.

Obviously, a team of wade, bosh, deng, dragic, and whiteside will be a much better team next year.

Heat got gutted by injuries..it is what it is.

[BlakFrankWhite]

Heat not making the PO's this year...would help LeBron's legacy.

His statue should be built outside the AA arena....not D-Fade's

[Joyner82reload]

Uh..if totally healthy, the Heat would not only make the playoffs but they would beat Cleveland in 6 games.

[retaxis]

Uh..if totally healthy, the Heat would not only make the playoffs but they would beat Cleveland in 6 games.
A lot of big ifs. Sounds like Kd and roses career

[Trollsmasher]

The Heat injuries only prove the load and pressure Lebron had to carry.

He got replaced by 4 people + Bosh and Wade sharing the load and most of these players are either crippled for season or looking like corpses on the court some 70 RS games in. And Lebron did it for 4 years while missing like 12 games in total.

Makes Lebron's endurance even more impressive:applause:

[pauk]

Not only that.... but in the East aswell....

[ILLsmak]

Not only that.... but in the East aswell....

don't be a homer. The worst thing to do is to agree w/ trolls if you wanna be a serious poster.

-Smak

[pauk]

don't be a homer. The worst thing to do is to agree w/ trolls if you wanna be a serious poster.

-Smak

Yea, but i mean its kindof true though, its not a to absurd statement, i believe only that team in 2010 when Wade/Bosh were healthy enough to play could make the playoffs without him (believe it or not, these injuries/missed games you see from Bosh/Wade today & the performances you see from them today is what/how Lebron lived with since especially their 2nd year together).... but thats in the East, in the West i dont think they would make it...

Lebrons impact shouldnt be a surprise.... just look at the immediate before/after results from teams he left and joined and then left & joined again....

[FLDFSU]

People were saying that the heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be a top 3 seed in the east with a chance to make the finals were completely wrong. They were still very weak inside, and had no one to make up for it. And all that talk about injuries, but no one talks about how fortunate they were to pick up whiteside. Aside from the most optimistic D-wade fans, it's safe to say wade's health has exceeded expectations this year.

A healthy heat team of wade, bosh, deng would be an under .500 team, and that shows how underrated LeBron was on this team, especially in the playoffs.

Obviously, a team of wade, bosh, deng, dragic, and whiteside will be a much better team next year.

They also said that Lebron was a cancer that was a net-negative on his team...

I am still trying to figure out how the Cavs go from winning 33 games to 50+, and the Heat goes from championship contenders to now out of the playoffs under the theory that Lebron makes his team worse...

[red1]

OP has never not been a homosexual

[dubeta]

Uh..if totally healthy, the Heat would not only make the playoffs but they would beat Cleveland in 6 games.

:facepalm

[SouBeachTalents]

Yea, but i mean its kindof true though, its not a to absurd statement, i believe only that team in 2010 when Wade/Bosh were healthy enough to play could make the playoffs without him (believe it or not, these injuries/missed games you see from Bosh/Wade today & the performances you see from them today is what/how Lebron lived with since especially their 2nd year together).... but thats in the East, in the West i dont think they would make it...

Lebrons impact shouldnt be a surprise.... just look at the immediate before/after results from teams he left and joined and then left & joined again....

There's not a chance in the world the 2012 or 2013 Heat miss the playoffs in the East

[dubeta]

There's not a chance in the world the 2012 or 2013 Heat miss the playoffs in the East


With Wade missing a ton of games both season, and with no rebounding and interior defense? Plus with Chalmers and Cole as the primary playmakers?

[Bandito]

LeBron is the sole reason his team is any good.

Meanwhile the Bulls did the same with or without Jordan, no change in their winning.

While they lost in the 2nd round in 1994, it was due to horrible officiating, or else Scottie Pippen would have led the Bulls to a 4th championship with a FMVP.
After MJ retired in 98 the bulls just disappeared of the NBA until Rose came along.

[SouBeachTalents]

With Wade missing a ton of games both season, and with no rebounding and interior defense? Plus with Chalmers and Cole as the primary playmakers?

Wade missed 17 and 13 games those years, granted not a short amount of time but not a catastrophic number of games either. Plus it's possible he would have played in some of those games he missed if LeBron wasn't on the team to shoulder the load. Wade was still a top 10 player in 2012 and the 2013 regular season, there's no way he and Bosh don't go at least .500 those years, especially in the East

[sdot_thadon]

All his heat teams make it without him, albeit a lower seed. I think this yrs cavs team as well. 1st Cleveland run? I agree.

[Hey Yo]

After MJ retired in 98 the bulls just disappeared of the NBA until Rose came along.
The following season they also lost Pippen, Rodman, Kerr and Longley

[Duderonomy]

This cavs team would win 40 or more.
Miami 2011-14 are locks as well no questions.
2009-10 cavs are questionable but I think they would get in.
If Lebron bailed on the Titantic, his stands would call it overrated.

[Magic 32]

Every Lebron team has been built or slowly mutated into a team that has him as a ball hogging army swiss knife.

You take him away and the teams fall apart.

That is both the strength and limitation of Lebron's game.

With a good SYSTEM in place, the 2011 Heat could have won a championship without Lebron.

[dubeta]

Every Lebron team has been built or slowly mutated into a team that has him as a ball hogging army swiss knife.

You take him away and the teams fall apart.

That is both the strength and limitation of Lebron's game.

With a good SYSTEM in place, the 2011 Heat could have won a championship without Lebron.


:oldlol:

Prime Wade is a 40 win 1st round loser similar to Kobe

Add a career loser in Bosh, who also doesnt show up in big playoff games, and not even Popovich would've led them to a championship

[T_L_P]

So the 2011 Heat would miss the Playoffs?

[dubeta]

So the 2011 Heat would miss the Playoffs?

Yes.


They would be the 2014 Heat with a slightly better Wade, but WITHOUT key contributors in Whiteside, Dragic, and Deng.

And before you say Bosh, Heat were much below .500 even with Bosh this season.

[Joyner82reload]

So the 2011 Heat would miss the Playoffs?

Yep. Despite the fact that the 2010 Heat won 47 games and would have replaced Michael Beasley with Chris Bosh the next season :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

[/B]

:oldlol:

Prime Wade is a 40 win 1st round loser similar to Kobe

Add a career loser in Bosh, who also doesnt show up in big playoff games, and not even Popovich would've led them to a championship

Wade actually never lost in the first round his first 3 years, and unlike LeBron won a title before teaming up together. And just :facepalm at the idea of Wade winning 40 plus games with complete trash in '09 and '10, then adding Bosh and MISSING the playoffs :roll:

[TheMan]

Wow lebron must be amazing!!! Surely this guy would be unbeatable. Especially in the finals!!
rat poison

[Doranku]

The 2011 Heat would not only have made the playoffs, but likely would have won the finals if LeBron wasn't out there sabotaging his team in 4th quarters.

[SouBeachTalents]

The 2011 Heat would not only have made the playoffs, but likely would have won the finals if LeBron wasn't out there sabotaging his team in 4th quarters.

If LeBron scores 12 points in Game 4 instead of 8 they win the title. Hell, if he scores 15-18 they win that game going away

[dubeta]

Todays Heat game vs the Lottery Pacers is a good example of what life is like without LeBron-Ball

[sportjames23]

the 2011 Cavs didn't just lose Lebron - they lost Delonte, Shaq, and Zydrunas.

Mo Williams missed 50 games... Varejao missed 55... Jamison missed 30.

So their ENTIRE ROSTER was gutted.

Btw, in each of the last 5 years, Lebron's had the ONLY TEAM IN THE LEAGUE with 3 all-stars (except Love missed it this year due to Lebron-ball holding him down).
.


Shhhhh, don't hit the stans with this truth bomb, 3ball.

[dubeta]

Shhhhh, don't hit the stans with this truth bomb, 3ball.

1-9 without Pippen and Bulls being the same team without MJ are real truth bombs

[sportjames23]

1-9 without Pippen and Bulls being the same team without MJ are real truth bombs


No more than 2/5 doe, bitch.

Sit yo ass down.

[beastee]

1-9 without Pippen and Bulls being the same team without MJ are real truth bombs
You say this with such confidence. Completely different than your god who never won anything without wade and bosh so I really can't understand your reasoning.

[raprap]

LeBron :applause:

[Beastmode88]

1-9 without Pippen and Bulls being the same team without MJ are real truth bombs

yet lebron got swept by the spurs in 07 while kobe was giving them work every year.

[Trollsmasher]

Two more Heats go down

The legend of the load Lebron had to carry all alone for 4 years is getting even bigger

There is no precedent for this in any sport

[knicksman]

1-9 without Pippen and Bulls being the same team without MJ are real truth bombs

No.. 2/5 is..