Robert Horry video. I think people may need to stop using him as a negative example.

[Kblaze8855]

He wasnt just on a gang of great teams. He helped make a lot of teams great. Especially early. He was talked about as the next Scottie Pippen at one point. He came in 6'9'' running the floor, handling the ball, guarding 4 positions, hitting threes, dunking everything, blocking shots, and setting steals records. He was a complete player and had a lot in common with current Leonard in ways....


Lot of what you expect to see in a Horry tribute. Perhaps some things you didnt know he was capable of.




https://youtu.be/Os3YViQU5yI


Something I said a while back:



Horry guards Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, and at times Sean Elliot, Penny, and Nick Anderson on the way to a title.

He puts up 19/8/3 steals and 5 blocks in game 1 of the finals.

11 points, 10 rebounds, 7 steals(finals record), and 2 blocks in game 2.

20/9/4/2/1 game 3.

21/13/5 to close it out.

He guards....the entire other team if asked. He makes big shots. He handles the ball...great off the ball D. Takes charges.

18 points, 10 rebounds, 4 assits, 3 steals, and 2 blocks a game in the finals.


He came out of that expected to become a star. But he was always so selfless. He never wanted it. He never really pushed himself as an offensive player...but ive heard coaches refer to him as the best defensive tweener of the 90s other than Pippen. considering that would put him over rodman...I dont agree....but hes been given high praise.

And he spent 15 years making people look like idiots for walking away from him for big shots.

Rasheed did it twice....

ISH went crazy when they let old ass Horry wet that 3 to win game 5 of the finals. He shouldnt have been open for 3 with the game on the line after 2001....but it just kept on happening. And he kept coming though...

03 is about the only time I remember him coming up short and that ball was 95% in...almost like Jordans bank 3 after Reggie hit the shot in 98. couldnt have been more in...

Anyway...

I think Horry had too much to do with too much winning to be just a "Yea but is ____ better than _____" footnote in history.

He didnt bullshit his way to 7 rings.

At least 3 of them likely go the other way without him.

Even back to his rocket days...hes pretty much the reason Dennis Rodman was traded to the Bulls. Dennis did not want to step out and guard Horry who kept making big shots....big locker room issue...Dennis vs Drob. Whole controversy....

One such huge shot was in the video. Dennis is nowhere to be seen. I love Dennis...but he dropped the ball guarding Horry. He wanted the rebounds and to lock down the paint...but the opposing 4 was playing 25 feet from the basket...

He really had a lot to do with them beating the Spurs but the numbers dont show it.

He was a key defensive player on 5 of those title teams....a key offensive player on 2....and hit huge shots in the playoffs on 6....

Watching him evolve from a do everything future star to the ultimate no credit role player makes me wonder what Leonard is gonna do. Hes luckier in that his teams best players are aging and have to pass the torch. Robert ended up on the Lakers with young stars. Plus the era Robert was in started to favor isolation players and his fullcourt abilities were wasted.

In the 80s or now I think he would be a bit better used on the offensive end.

Leonard took a good step this year so hes leaving Robert behind quickly....but he had a spark.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW6DXulhG74



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IokmwfkB1Dw

^
That Horry was no joke.


Im not gonna do the "Which career would you rather...." thing. You take the superstar career...get the money. But I have to say that I think he had more to do with his teams winning than hes given credit for due to his numbers.

[SCdac]

Underrated defender. Loved him on the Spurs. Clutch as a mofo but I liked what he did on defense just as much. may not have been a powerhouse defender but he hustled and was scrappy

[The Iron Sheik]

that 4 minute stretch he had in the 05 finals is one of the most impressive sequences I've ever seen in a basketball game.

i've also been thinking, when did the whole "but robert horry has 7 rings" thing start? and why did people always use that as an argument to say rings don't matter?

[Kblaze8855]

that 4 minute stretch he had in the 05 finals is one of the most impressive sequences I've ever seen in a basketball game.

Im partial to the double shot block right into the drawn charge myself.

That may well never happen again in basketball history. Block 2 shots and draw a charge in 5 seconds? Thats my kinda highlight.

[Akrazotile]

I dont think people talk about him negatively. Just use him as the most eternal example you can't simply measure a player by rings, otherwise Horry becomes a top 10 player alltime.

Still, it's not a coincidence to be a key contributor for three different title winning franchises. And obviously for he and Shaq to win three straight NBA titles together puts him in a very rarified historical air.

[Teanett]

he was very similar to Boris Diaw in that they could dominate if need be plus guard multiple positions.

[JtotheIzzo]

Forgot how athletic Horry was in Houston.

Here is a great video of Alabama (Horry, Spreewell, Jason Caffey) vs LSU (Shaq).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gR9OfO5bzo

College basketball was light years ahead of what it is now.

[warriorfan]

great player, very versatile and of course very clutch. he didn't stumble upon all those rings :applause:

[Dasher]

It's easy to forget that there was a time when you needed to get out of the way if Horry got a foot into the lane, lest you end up embarrassed.

[gts]

I think with Horry some of what happens is people forget how good a player he was skills wise across the board on both ends of the floor... he could could play with the ball in hand, he could play off the ball hanging on the primeter or make the timely cut to the rim but more importantly and maybe one of the most overlooked skills was he could make plays..

the man flat out could make the right play no matter what, with the ball without it, passing or shooting, on defense on offense he always seemed to be in the right place at the right time when you needed it most

that being said, he could also spend an entire game without having an impact whatsoever, moreso later in his career... sometimes he'd make a big play and you look later and it was one of 3 shots made on the night, or the only steal or block he had all game but he made it when it mattered

[T_L_P]

Underrated defender. Loved him on the Spurs. Clutch as a mofo but I liked what he did on defense just as much. may not have been a powerhouse defender but he hustled and was scrappy

Every best possible 12-man team needs a Robert Horry, tbh.

[poido123]

Great video KBlaze.


Horry was a fun player to watch, some of those plays I don't even remember but amazing AF.

[clipps]

I loved the video. As much as I hate the Lakers, especially the 3 peat Lakers, Robert Horry is definitely one of my favorite players of all time. Young Rockets Horry would be a top 10 player in the NBA today.

[Gotterdammerung]

Great thread, KBlaze. Robert Horry was ahead of his times, the original stretch 4 who jammed on your fool ass if you closed out too quickly.

I remember that game 7 in the 1994 finals when Olajuwon was double teamed and he spun away from the defense and found a cutting Horry to the hoop. Ewing challenged him but Horry dunked on him so hard that Hakeem noticed that he wasn't the same the rest of the game. :oldlol:

[DetroitPiston]

I was at a friend's watching that infamous Sheed mistake. Soon as I saw Horry get the ball, I knew it was over. Sheed actually does his job or it's someone else, Pistons would've won. I can't tell you how many times I saw highlights and it was always Horry. Dude just seemed to live for the big moment.

Horry is the kind of guy you want on your team if you want to win.

[Smoke117]

I loved the video. As much as I hate the Lakers, especially the 3 peat Lakers, Robert Horry is definitely one of my favorite players of all time. Young Rockets Horry would be a top 10 player in the NBA today.

:biggums:

There is the reason I hate on him. People always want to make him much more than he ever was.

[MiseryCityTexas]

he was very similar to Boris Diaw in that they could dominate if need be plus guard multiple positions.


Hell no. Diaw and prime Horry are nothing alike.

[raiderfan19]

The best comparison for him IMO is Rasheed Wallace. Versatile big with range who was a great defender with a ridiculous bball iq who never had the mentality to completely take over even though they showed glimpses at time. Sheed was better individually but that's the best comparison for him IMO.

[Smoke117]

The best comparison for him IMO is Rasheed Wallace. Versatile big with range who was a great defender with a ridiculous bball iq who never had the mentality to completely take over even though they showed glimpses at time. Sheed was better individually but that's the best comparison for him IMO.

:biggums: Rasheed was one of the greatest post players of all time. His level of skill far outmatches Horry's. You cannot be serious? Horry was 29 in 2000 which should have been the middle of his prime being shit on by Sheed. Again...why i hate on him. Robert Horry couldn't take over shit. In 96 when he averaged a career high 37mpg he averaged 12 ppg on 10 shots...wow. What an amazing player.

It's a joke to even compare them defensively. Sheed anchored the Pistons defense the next season after Big Ben left and they barely stumbled in that department. You are going to tell me that Robert Horry could anchor a defense like Sheed to? One of the worst comparisons in another bullshit attempt to try and make Horry a better player than he really was.

You literally have to know nothing about basketball to think Horry would be a top 10 player in the league now or compare him to Rasheed Wallace.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

The best comparison for him IMO is Rasheed Wallace. Versatile big with range who was a great defender with a ridiculous bball iq who never had the mentality to completely take over even though they showed glimpses at time. Sheed was better individually but that's the best comparison for him IMO.
Horrific comparison. I seriously doubt you watched the two play. :oldlol:

[raiderfan19]

:biggums: Rasheed was one of the greatest post players of all time. His level of skill far outmatches Horry's. You cannot be serious? Horry was 29 in 2000 which should have been the middle of his prime being shit on by Sheed. Again...why i hate on him. Robert Horry couldn't take over shit. In 96 when he averaged a career high 37mpg he averaged 12 ppg on 10 shots...wow. What an amazing player.
Sheed was one of the best post players of all time? Really? :wtf:

[Smoke117]

Sheed was one of the best post players of all time? Really? :wtf:

Really.

[raiderfan19]

Was sheed better than horry? Yes. Is it a crazy comparison? No. And sheed was never anything approaching a top 10 player in the league so I don't think comparing horry to him means I think he'd be a top ten player in the league( he wouldn't have been) they were both tweeners with range who played great d but were never as good as people expected them to be. Sheed was a little more of a 4/5 than a 3/4 at his best but I certainly don't think the comparison is crazy. And it's definitely nowhere near as crazy as saying sheed had an all time elite post up game.

[Nuff Said]

Can we use Derek fisher now?

[Reggie43]

Donyell Marshall plays somewhat similar. Horry was faster, quicker more athletic but I think Marshall was slightly better and more consistent.

[Kblaze8855]

There is the reason I hate on him. People always want to make him much more than he ever was.


Considering that he most often comes up as a "Yea well....Horry won a lot too" im not sure about that.

How often does Robert Horry get mentioned in any way that isnt a backhanded compliment?

[tmacattack33]

Early on he was good. Late in his career he was just lucky (well maybe not "lucky"...he chose where he wanted to play) to be on good teams.

[Leroy Jetson]

Early on he was good. Late in his career he was just lucky (well maybe not "lucky"...he chose where he wanted to play) to be on good teams.
That's called smart, not lucky. And he hit a lot of big shots when it counted, even in his later years. He always pulled his weight for those titles.

[ILLsmak]

: Robert Horry couldn't take over shit. In 96 when he averaged a career high 37mpg he averaged 12 ppg on 10 shots...wow. What an amazing player.



He's not all about shots. He was a good rebounder, good steals, good blocks. Who cares if someone can take over. Dennis Rodman can't take over, either.

That being said, I don't agree with Rasheed comparison either.

Horry is a SF that plays like A sf should play. He's not a wing scorer. 3 or 4 assists is not shabby from someone who plays within an offense as a non-primary ball handler.

I don't think Horry is a superstar, but he is an amazing player. He could make any team better. Like I said, he's a Rodman type dude except at the SF. He does different shit. Not an all time great at any one thing (except maybe getting free for clutch open 3s.)

The fact that you think Sheed busting Horry's ass is meaningful... makes no sense to me. Horry was a SF even tho he played PF at times. That goes to show how good he is. But he wasn't really ready to check a great post player.

-Smak

[3ball]

Horry was looked at as a Pippen-type, do-it-all player.

[3ball]

He was a complete player and had a lot in common with current Leonard in ways.



True, MJ blow by Kawhi too - how many times do you think a coach would let this happen before putting the SG back on MJ?


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Blows_By_Robert_a06301d352c7c9a7a26 53e80f329d83b.gif


I'm pretty sure Hakeem is TELLING the coach to make the switch back.. :roll:
.

[Teanett]

Hell no. Diaw and prime Horry are nothing alike.

well duh, not skillset-wise but in function

[Kblaze8855]

Believe it or not I met a guy named "Leonard Horry" today and was reminded of this comparison.

Obviously Leonard went to another level in the years after this(as I mentioned he had started to do) but 95 Horry and 2014 Leonard had similar finals and while its impossible to know potential.....i'll forever feel Robert left a lot on the table.

But maybe not.....its arguable that the guys who could be stars but instead give all they can to fit in and make great teams work have been more impactful than a lot of people in the hall of fame.

Rockets/Lakers Horry, Warriors Iggy, Manu much of his career, and even guys like Dennis Johnson who morphed into...not role players...but guys far removed from all NBA as they had been? Those guys take teams from great to unbeatable at times.

Guess it depends on what you consider success. Horry never had the star runs those guys had to prove he had it in him but....I dont know. He showed quite a bit but would just go back to taking it easy. Not everyone wants to be the guy.

[Kblaze8855]

I will never get over how stupid people have been forgetting that Robert Horry is Robert Horry when a game is on the line:


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ColorlessBlandIslandcanary-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/SerpentineRewardingGrayfox-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuickRewardingBasil-size_restricted.gif

[Kblaze8855]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MasculineInfamousFox-size_restricted.gif



https://thumbs.gfycat.com/PlaintiveSecondaryDevilfish-size_restricted.gif


https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MeaslyTidyLadybug-size_restricted.gif

[Smoke117]

Nice collection of wide open shots. This was a terrible thread five years ago and it’s still terrible now. Do us all a favor and delete it.

[SouBeachTalents]

Horry was looked at as a Pippen-type, do-it-all player.


True, MJ blow by Kawhi too - how many times do you think a coach would let this happen before putting the SG back on MJ?


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/Michael_Jordan_Blows_By_Robert_a06301d352c7c9a7a26 53e80f329d83b.gif


I'm pretty sure Hakeem is TELLING the coach to make the switch back.. :roll:
.
And of course this fakkit manage to bring this shit up in a Robert Horry thread :oldlol:

[Kblaze8855]

Nice collection of wide open shots. This was a terrible thread five years ago and it’s still terrible now. Do us all a favor and delete it.

To be so unimpressed it must be fairly common to have such a collection.

Give me a few others who do.

[Reggie43]

What type of offensive player would Horry have been if he was not so selfless in his prime? A 15 ppg player? He was kind of underrated but he was really not that "good" and definitely not someone whose contributions are hard to replace especially after his houston years.

[leBron Bieber]

He wasnt just on a gang of great teams. He helped make a lot of teams great. Especially early. He was talked about as the next Scottie Pippen at one point. He came in 6'9'' running the floor, handling the ball, guarding 4 positions, hitting threes, dunking everything, blocking shots, and setting steals records. He was a complete player and had a lot in common with current Leonard in ways....


Lot of what you expect to see in a Horry tribute. Perhaps some things you didnt know he was capable of.




https://youtu.be/Os3YViQU5yI


Something I said a while back:





He came out of that expected to become a star. But he was always so selfless. He never wanted it. He never really pushed himself as an offensive player...but ive heard coaches refer to him as the best defensive tweener of the 90s other than Pippen. considering that would put him over rodman...I dont agree....but hes been given high praise.

And he spent 15 years making people look like idiots for walking away from him for big shots.

Rasheed did it twice....

ISH went crazy when they let old ass Horry wet that 3 to win game 5 of the finals. He shouldnt have been open for 3 with the game on the line after 2001....but it just kept on happening. And he kept coming though...

03 is about the only time I remember him coming up short and that ball was 95% in...almost like Jordans bank 3 after Reggie hit the shot in 98. couldnt have been more in...

Anyway...

I think Horry had too much to do with too much winning to be just a "Yea but is ____ better than _____" footnote in history.

He didnt bullshit his way to 7 rings.

At least 3 of them likely go the other way without him.

Even back to his rocket days...hes pretty much the reason Dennis Rodman was traded to the Bulls. Dennis did not want to step out and guard Horry who kept making big shots....big locker room issue...Dennis vs Drob. Whole controversy....

One such huge shot was in the video. Dennis is nowhere to be seen. I love Dennis...but he dropped the ball guarding Horry. He wanted the rebounds and to lock down the paint...but the opposing 4 was playing 25 feet from the basket...

He really had a lot to do with them beating the Spurs but the numbers dont show it.

He was a key defensive player on 5 of those title teams....a key offensive player on 2....and hit huge shots in the playoffs on 6....

Watching him evolve from a do everything future star to the ultimate no credit role player makes me wonder what Leonard is gonna do. Hes luckier in that his teams best players are aging and have to pass the torch. Robert ended up on the Lakers with young stars. Plus the era Robert was in started to favor isolation players and his fullcourt abilities were wasted.

In the 80s or now I think he would be a bit better used on the offensive end.

Leonard took a good step this year so hes leaving Robert behind quickly....but he had a spark.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pW6DXulhG74



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IokmwfkB1Dw

^
That Horry was no joke.


Im not gonna do the "Which career would you rather...." thing. You take the superstar career...get the money. But I have to say that I think he had more to do with his teams winning than hes given credit for due to his numbers.

I can’t say he’s underrated since his name comes up in almost any ring argument but he’s a prime example the nba needs a role player of the year or teammate of the year award for the Horrys, Shane battier , Bruce Bowen .. players who do dirty work that won’t come up in stats but clearly make a winning difference .. I see draymon green as this type too , he’s not a defensive guy to where he could make the knicks a top 2 defense but he could change a culture with how he plays

Plus they are turning defensive player of the year into a joke

[jayfan]

Probably dating myself here, but I loved Horry's game even in college. Dude was a beast coming out of Alabama. Great all-around Forward's game. Could do a little bit of everything, both ends of the floor, and could sky.



.

[Kblaze8855]

What type of offensive player would Horry have been if he was not so selfless in his prime? A 15 ppg player? He was kind of underrated but he was really not that "good" and definitely not someone whose contributions are hard to replace especially after his houston years.


Thats where the question of production vs contribution comes in. There are 200 people you can get 6/6 from like he gave in 2002 off the bench. How many would even be on the floor for the shot he made vs the Kings though...much less make it? How many 6ppg players would a guy like Kobe trust enough to pass up a game winner and hit him in the corner the several times he proved willing to do that? The finals game winner in 01...would Kobe give it up to say....Boki Nachbar? Perfectly competent shooter. But....would stars trust him the same way they all trusted Horry? Would he get so many chances to prove hed come through?

It isnt nearly as simple as taking him away means those many plays cant be made but...its hard to assume. Its like...is Michael Cooper just any 9/4 player who can be all D? Is Bill Hanzliks 12/6 and all d team on the wing the same as Coopers 9/6 and all d the same year?

Its hard to say.

You cant exactly throw out a half dozen or more playoff game winners several of them in key games to help win titles....and many other big plays down the stretch of similar games.

But you also cant assume other similar players wouldnt perform. Marvin Williams will do better numbers than Horry.

Would all of Horrys teams be as successful with him? I find it hard to say yes.

Its the really abstract part of the game its hard to argue about because its all fantasy and assumptions....and our opinions are so colored by the reality that already happened. I cant picture Jonathan Bender making all the plays I saw Horry make....that doesnt mean he couldnt. And its hard for me to imagine many washed up 35 year olds even being in a key finals game late let alone taking it over despite there being 8 younger all stars on the floor and then hitting the game winner on top of it. That doesnt mean Thabo wont do it next season. I just...have trouble picturing it.

Im not sure how to quantify Robert Horrys contribution and how easy it is to replace it.

[Reggie43]

I get what you are saying but we should compare him to similar veteran players and not random guys with similar numbers. Most teams had a ton of those, guys like older Ron Harper, Fisher, Rick Fox, Warrior Iguodala, Mario Elie, older Derrick Mckey etc. They dont necessarily play the same position but they had a similar presence and are more experienced guys who knew how to play the game.

[light]

No one uses him as a negative example.

[HoopsNY]

Stars like Shaq and Kobe make championship teams, but it's guys like Horry that make dynasties. A team needs a cohesive unit of players who rise to the occasion and are not only able to make big stops but also big shots. Horry was one of those guys that fit that script and complimented post players and slashers very well.

[Euroleague]

Horry was one of the clutchest players of all time, and he was very good on defense. He also had a really high basketball IQ, and he was a pure winner. There is no reason to use him as a negative example. He's one of the greatest role players of all time.

[3ball]

.
95' Pippen vs Magic..... 19/7/6 on 52% TS... 15.8 gmsc
96' Pippen vs Magic..... 18/7/7 on 50% TS... 16.6 gmsc

95' Horry. vs Magic...... 18/10/4 on 57% TS.. 19.0 gmsc


So Pippen is vastly overrated - his stats were unspectacular, so regular dudes like Horry or Starks routinely matched him.. and stars like Reggie Miller always outplayed pippen against common opponents

but the winning spotlight inflated pippen and gave him accolades

[dankok8]

Agree that Horry is overlooked. I always feared him when he was on the other team!

[HoopsNY]

Agree that Horry is overlooked. I always feared him when he was on the other team!

Agreed. During his entire career, I was basically rooting against him, even when he played alongside my favorite player of all-time, Hakeem. But for the love of God he kept killing me every friggin time.

Knicks, Magic, Blazers, Spurs, Kings, you name it this flippin guy was always crushing my hopes!