Better Player All-Time: Wade or Dirk?

[Wade's Rings]

Wade
3x NBA champion
1x FMVP
11x NBA all star
1x All Star game MVP
2x All NBA first team
3x All NBA second team
3x All NBA third team
3x All NBA defensive 2nd team

Dirk
NBA Champion
1x FMVP
1x NBA MVP
12x NBA All star
4x All NBA first team
5x All NBA second team
3x All NBA third team
50-40-90 club (07)

[Hey Yo]

Dirk....not a hard decision.

[dubeta]

EASILY dirk, there is no debate

[JohnFreeman]

Wade

[Duggrr]

Dirk in a close one.

[Nuff Said]

DWade. Outperformed Dirk in both finals.

[raiderfan19]

Dirk

[Jacks3]

Easily Dirk.

[ClipperRevival]

It's close but I rank Dirk a little higher on my all time great list. Not too many players have both a regular season MVP and Finals MVP.

I still consider Wade the 3rd best 2 guard ever.

[Cold soul]

Dirk this is super close though some days I'll pick Wade.

[Good Ol JR]

That's gotta be WADE

[1987_Lakers]

At their peaks: Wade

Career wise: Dirk

[DaOldLion]

does defense not count give me wade

[L.Kizzle]

D -Winski

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Dirnitzki

[Rolando]

An MVP award is a major difference.

Dirk.

[fsvr54]

Forget MVP awards, it's Wade, he is flat out a more talented player.

[aj1987]

The last time a Dirk vs Wade thread was made, it went to 30+ pages. Bump that shit up.

I pick Wade.

[plowking]

Why is Dirk considered better to those that chose him?

Wade is a better playoff perfomer, and finals performer. Add to the fact that his peak was better, has more championships, and outplayed Dirk twice when they did go head to head, what is the case for him?

Longevity? That is the only thing he really has going for him against Wade.

[Rose'sACL]

wade. the fact is that 2011 heat would have most probably won the 2011 finals if they had as good of a coach as rick carlisle.
wade has better peak, better play making and better defense on his side while dirk only has better longevity on his side.

[fsvr54]

Why is Dirk considered better to those that chose him?

Wade is a better playoff perfomer, and finals performer. Add to the fact that his peak was better, has more championships, and outplayed Dirk twice when they did go head to head, what is the case for him?

Longevity? That is the only thing he really has going for him against Wade.

Plus things like defense, passing, shot blocking, running an offense etc

What is Dirk better at than Wade OTHER than jumpshooting?

[Cone]

dirk, easily

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

wade. the fact is that 2011 heat would have most probably won the 2011 finals if they had as good of a coach as rick carlisle.
wade has better peak, better play making and better defense on his side while dirk only has better longevity on his side.
Dirks a better shooter, scorer and rebounder
the spacing he provides and prolly having the best midrange shot ever complete fcks up even the best defenses

Wade was great top 20 alltime but ill take Dirk. More consistent (playoffs too), durable, played longer, and their peaks are very close

[aj1987]

Dirks a better shooter, scorer and rebounder
the spacing he provides and prolly having the best midrange shot ever complete fcks up even the best defenses

Wade was great top 20 alltime but ill take Dirk. More consistent (playoffs too), durable, played longer, and their peaks are very close
:wtf:

I'd take the double and triple teams that Wade, compared to Dirk's spacing.

[greatest-ever]

As a Wade proponent, and someone that never cared much for Dirk, i rank Dirk higher. Wade clearly peaked higher and i think his 06 and 09 seasons are better than any version of Dirk but the longevity favors Dirk considerably.

Saying "Dirk easily" is disrespectful to Wade. He may lack longevity but his peak is top 15 worthy and he has 3 rings.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:wtf:

I'd take the double and triple teams that Wade, compared to Dirk's spacing.
Um Dirk saw plenty of doubles and triples during his primes. Its Wades GOAT level slashing vs Dirks GOAT level spacing.......i prefer Dirk personally thinks it make the life of his teammates easier but Wades playmaking is underrated

Dirk was even gettin quad team by ur squad in 11

[Akrazotile]

At their peaks: Wade

Career wise: Dirk


Probably this

[RightTwoCensor]

Dirk.

[greatest-ever]

An MVP award is a major difference.

Dirk.
Not really. I'm not taking Rose over Jerry West because he has an mvp.

[nzahir]

1 year in prime...wade
Longevity and health-dirk

Dirks the better option on offense by a bit but wade kills dirk on defense and distributing the ball

[aj1987]

Um Dirk saw plenty of doubles and triples during his primes. Its Wades GOAT level slashing vs Dirks GOAT level spacing.......i prefer Dirk personally thinks it make the life of his teammates easier but Wades playmaking is underrated

Dirk was even gettin quad team by ur squad in 11
:oldlol: @ getting "quad team". Sure, Dirk was getting doubled and tripled. Just not the same level in which Wade attracted the defenses attention though. Not even close.

You still haven't stated why Dirk is a better scorer than Wade...

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Why are nikkas ignorin Dirks rebounding advantage......yeah Wade wins playmaking as a guard VS big. Same sht applies for rebounding Dirk is like top 12 in defensive rebounding alltime for the playoffs or sumthn. Thats not to gloss over

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

:oldlol: @ getting "quad team". Sure, Dirk was getting doubled and tripled. Just not the same level in which Wade attracted the defenses attention though. Not even close.

You still haven't stated why Dirk is a better scorer than Wade...
Whats this?

http://i.imgur.com/vxoUjpZ.png
Had bran dam near shadin as the 5th too............3 mavs dont got a body anywhere near em lmao

[aj1987]

Whats this?

http://i.imgur.com/vxoUjpZ.png
Should've finished my sentence as said "except when he drove to basket the defenses collapsed on him". That happened how many times? 2-3 times during the ENTIRE series?

[raiderfan19]

You gotta point out that dirk also never turned the ball over like wade did. And as for who was better offensively dirk was consistently on elite offensive teams for his entire career. Wade wasn't until lebron got there. There's also the 10k difference in points and 6k difference in rebounds career wise.

[navy]

Why are nikkas ignorin Dirks rebounding advantage......yeah Wade wins playmaking as a guard VS big. Same sht applies for rebounding Dirk is like top 12 in defensive rebounding alltime for the playoffs or sumthn. Thats not to gloss over
Meh. That's like me saying, we gonna ignore Wade's assisting advantage? Dirk is a good rebounder,

Also. Wade at 6'3 is a better shot blocker than Dirk at 7'.

[RightTwoCensor]

Why is Dirk considered better to those that chose him?

Wade is a better playoff perfomer, and finals performer. Add to the fact that his peak was better, has more championships, and outplayed Dirk twice when they did go head to head, what is the case for him?

Longevity? That is the only thing he really has going for him against Wade.
Dirk has never finished below .500 once since 2000, Wade has practically finished below .500 during his peak seasons.

Dirk has an argument for the greatest PF on offense.

Dirk has consistently been good.

Dirk has the advantage in terms of individual achievements. (Wade's two extra sidekick rings aren't as impressive as Dirk's MVP season).

Wade's peak in general is overrated, if he had actually won games he'd have the significant advantage over Dirk.

[fsvr54]

Dirk has never finished below .500 once since 2000, Wade has practically finished below .500 during his peak seasons.

Dirk has an argument for the greatest PF on offense.

Dirk has consistently been good.

Dirk has the advantage in terms of individual achievements. (Wade's two extra sidekick rings aren't as impressive as Dirk's MVP season).

Wade's peak in general is overrated, if he had actually won games he'd have the significant advantage over Dirk.

Dirk's TEAM never finished below .500

Every player that ever won a lot, had great teams around them

[navy]

Second best player on the Heat while Wade was in his peak was Michael Beasley.

[raiderfan19]

Second best player on the Heat while Wade was in his peak was Michael Beasley.
You think Beasley was better than Shawn marion

[ABfor3]

It's close but Dirk.

[navy]

You think Beasley was better than Shawn marion
At the time yeah.

[plowking]

Dirk has never finished below .500 once since 2000, Wade has practically finished below .500 during his peak seasons.

Dirk has an argument for the greatest PF on offense.

Dirk has consistently been good.

Dirk has the advantage in terms of individual achievements. (Wade's two extra sidekick rings aren't as impressive as Dirk's MVP season).

Wade's peak in general is overrated, if he had actually won games he'd have the significant advantage over Dirk.

Wade never finished below .500 during his peak outside of an injured season.

Wade has consistently been good too. He has 8 seasons in a row of 22+ppg, and 10 seasons of 20+ppg.
Individual achievements are about equal. Sure, Dirk has an MVP season, but Wade has 2 seasons undoubtedly better than Dirk's best and MVP season. So yeah...


So Wade is a better offensive and defensive player.
Wade has a better peak.
Wade has won more.
Wade outplayed Dirk in the finals.
Wade is a better playoff and finals performer.

So why is Dirk considered better in your eyes? An MVP and an arbitrary .500 winning record in a single season that Wade doesn't have; one in which he was injured and didn't play the whole season in none the less. That's about as specific as me saying that Dirk can't be higher because Wade has never lost to the 8th seed as the 1st seed.
My above list are just facts given their careers. Your requirements are a bunch of arbitrary accomplishments that are insanely specific.

[raiderfan19]

Wade wasn't better than dirk offensively. And again there's 10k extra points and 6k extra rebounds for dirk.

The issue with wade is he was a candle that burned very brightly for a very short time. Dirk has been great for a really long time.

[plowking]

Wade wasn't better than dirk offensively. And again there's 10k extra points and 6k extra rebounds for dirk.

The issue with wade is he was a candle that burned very brightly for a very short time. Dirk has been great for a really long time.

Dirk has played longer, and is closer to the end of his career than Wade is his most likely.

Wade wasn't better offensively? Interesting seeing as he averaged more points on better efficiency, handed out more assists, and has multiple seasons better than Dirk's best scoring seasons.

Wade is a candle that burned for a very short time, but here he is almost at 20,000 points. Interesting.

[dubeta]

Think about it, Wade had Prime LeBron and the best he did was a 2 for 4.


You telling me Dirk with Prime LeBron wouldn't got at least 5 for 6?

[RightTwoCensor]

Wade never finished below .500 during his peak outside of an injured season.

Wade has consistently been good too. He has 8 seasons in a row of 22+ppg, and 10 seasons of 20+ppg.
Individual achievements are about equal. Sure, Dirk has an MVP season, but Wade has 2 seasons undoubtedly better than Dirk's best and MVP season. So yeah...


So Wade is a better offensive and defensive player.
Wade has a better peak.
Wade has won more.
Wade outplayed Dirk in the finals.
Wade is a better playoff and finals performer.

So why is Dirk considered better in your eyes? An MVP and an arbitrary .500 winning record in a single season that Wade doesn't have; one in which he was injured and didn't play the whole season in none the less. That's about as specific as me saying that Dirk can't be higher because Wade has never lost to the 8th seed as the 1st seed.
My above list are just facts given their careers. Your requirements are a bunch of arbitrary accomplishments that are insanely specific.
I'm on my phone, so I can't (or just don't want to) make an extended post. I agree with your points but I will say that Dirk has undoubtedly been more accomplished than Wade. Dirk is the better offensive player, PPG doesn't tell the story of how great of a shooter and scorer when he wanted to score.

Dirk's monster 2011 playoff run went down as one of the greatest of this era considering his individual performance and the names he beat.

Wade's career just left fans wanting more, especially when he wanted to compete with Kobe. He never had a great statistical and winning season as the undisputed best player of his team after 2006.

[ClipperRevival]

Wade never finished below .500 during his peak outside of an injured season.

Wade has consistently been good too. He has 8 seasons in a row of 22+ppg, and 10 seasons of 20+ppg.
Individual achievements are about equal. Sure, Dirk has an MVP season, but Wade has 2 seasons undoubtedly better than Dirk's best and MVP season. So yeah...


So Wade is a better offensive and defensive player.
Wade has a better peak.
Wade has won more.
Wade outplayed Dirk in the finals.
Wade is a better playoff and finals performer.

So why is Dirk considered better in your eyes? An MVP and an arbitrary .500 winning record in a single season that Wade doesn't have; one in which he was injured and didn't play the whole season in none the less. That's about as specific as me saying that Dirk can't be higher because Wade has never lost to the 8th seed as the 1st seed.
My above list are just facts given their careers. Your requirements are a bunch of arbitrary accomplishments that are insanely specific.

The game has never seen a guy like Dirk. A true 7 footer with 3 point range and a step back jumper that has to rank right up there with one of the most unstoppable moves ever. He doesn't have to dominate the ball to be great. He can sit in the corner and stretch the floor or create his own shot. That's another thing about the guy. You could actually tell him to create his own shot in crunch time. How many 7 footers could do that?

And winning a regular season MVP does carry additional weight. He's only a handful of players to win regular season and finals mvp. He had incredible longevity. He carried a team on his back to a title.

I have no problem with anyone picking Wade. I am just making some points for Dirk.

[aj1987]

I'm on my phone, so I can't (or just don't want to) make an extended post. I agree with your points but I will say that Dirk has undoubtedly been more accomplished than Wade. Dirk is the better offensive player, PPG doesn't tell the story of how great of a shooter and scorer when he wanted to score.

Dirk's monster 2011 playoff run went down as one of the greatest of this era considering his individual performance and the names he beat.

Wade's career just left fans wanting more, especially when he wanted to compete with Kobe. He never had a great statistical and winning season as the undisputed best player of his team after 2006.
How ****ing dumb are you, dude? Look at the teams Wade was on after winning a ring and FMVP.

:oldlol: @ Dirk being the better scorer.

[FKAri]

Without injuries its Wade. Wade's playstyle isnt meant for longevity and racking up all time accolades. So Dirk for career and Wade for peak play.

[RightTwoCensor]

In a embarrassingly weak Eastern Conference he should have been able to get more than 40 wins a season.

Dirk is a better scorer.
50/40/90
Unstoppable Fadeaway
Stretch PF
One Legged Shots
Greatest Pick and Pop Big Man
FT Machine


The fact that Wade never developed a long ranged shot sets the difference between their during arsenal.

It's like you've never watched prime Dirk

[greatest-ever]

Think about it, Wade had Prime LeBron and the best he did was a 2 for 4.


You telling me Dirk with Prime LeBron wouldn't got at least 5 for 6?
Wade was past his prime from 2012-2014 yet they still win 2/3 of those years. 2011 was Lebron's fault, if he plays a bit better in the finals Wade would have 2 fmvps.

It's dishonest for you to act like winning 2 rings in 4 years is some failure and its disingenuous to act like Wade was in his prime those years. You may not realize this but Wade's best years were not during the big 3 era, only 2011 was a prime year.

[mehyaM24]

dirk...without question

wade:
- a mediocre closer, and awful at last-second shots
- he's efficient, but one of the worst when it comes to points per possession.
- average facilitator despite having the ball in hands ad nauseum
- average defender when he plays the passing lanes.
- overrated impact player when there isn't another player with equal and/or better impact on his team.
- dirty player and relies heavily on free throws
- had seasons where he was an abysmal leader - we're seeing it this season
- responsible for winning a ring, but he had a lot of help from the refs

wade is actually one of the most overrated players of all time, tbh. guy is leading the heat OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS despite coming off a finals appearance last year. :oldlol:

[Achilleas]

difficult to answer,they play different possesion
but if i have to pick a player ,i would prefer dirk

for a team that need a scorer and his center is good defender i will pick dirk
for a good team that i need a player for defence and offence i pick wade

[sportjames23]

wade. the fact is that 2011 heat would have most probably won the 2011 finals if Lebron hadn't shit the bed.
wade has better peak, better play making and better defense on his side while dirk only has better longevity on his side.


Fixed that for you.

[greatest-ever]

In a embarrassingly weak Eastern Conference he should have been able to get more than 40 wins a season.

Dirk is a better scorer.
50/40/90
Unstoppable Fadeaway
Stretch PF
One Legged Shots
Greatest Pick and Pop Big Man
FT Machine


The fact that Wade never developed a long ranged shot sets the difference between their during arsenal.

It's like you've never watched prime Dirk
Its obvious that we never watched prime Dirk? It's obvious you didn't watch prime Wade. All you do is look at win totals the years he didn't have Lebron or Shaq. Do you even have the slightest clue as to how bad Wade's cast was in 09 & 2010? His best players were Beasley and an old Jermaine Oneal. If anything its impressive for him to get 46-47 wins in 2010 with that putrid cast.

It's disingenuous for you to look just at team record to evaluate an individual while ignoring statistical production and context. And then you ignore playoff performances entirely. Your criteria for evaluating players is arbitrary and shows a complete lack of knowledge. Stop embarassing yo

[sportjames23]

Think about it, Wade had Prime LeBron and the best he did was a 2 for 4.


You telling me Dirk with Prime LeBron wouldn't got at least 5 for 6?


Says a lot about Lebron, too, then, right?

[aj1987]

dirk...without question

wade:
- a mediocre closer, and awful at last-second shots
- he's efficient, but one of the worst when it comes to points per possession.
- average facilitator despite having the ball in hands ad nauseum
- average defender when he plays the passing lanes.
- overrated impact player when there isn't another player with equal and/or better impact on his team.
- dirty player and relies heavily on free throws
- had seasons where he was an abysmal leader - we're seeing it this season
- responsible for winning a ring, but he had a lot of help from the refs

wade is actually one of the most overrated players of all time, tbh. guy is leading the heat OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS despite coming off a finals appearance last year.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You literally just described LeBron.

[sportjames23]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You literally just described LeBron.


LOL

[plowking]

dirk...without question

wade:
- a mediocre closer, and awful at last-second shots
- he's efficient, but one of the worst when it comes to points per possession.
- average facilitator despite having the ball in hands ad nauseum
- average defender when he plays the passing lanes.
- overrated impact player when there isn't another player with equal and/or better impact on his team.
- dirty player and relies heavily on free throws
- had seasons where he was an abysmal leader - we're seeing it this season
- responsible for winning a ring, but he had a lot of help from the refs

wade is actually one of the most overrated players of all time, tbh. guy is leading the heat OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS despite coming off a finals appearance last year. :oldlol:

Thanks for the unbiased opinion. You clearly hold no grudges, much like the rest of the Lebron fans on here.

[mehyaM24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You literally just described LeBron.
i don't think you know what "literally" means.

but yea, lebron hasn't had one season, since entering his prime, where he had his team on the verge of missing the playoffs.

[plowking]

i don't think you know what "literally" means.

but yea, lebron hasn't had one season, since entering his prime, where he had his team on the verge of missing the playoffs.

So when did Wade miss the playoffs in his prime?

[aj1987]

So when did Wade miss the playoffs in his prime?
Dude is the 3ball of LeBron turds.

[coin24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

You literally just described LeBron.


oh shit:lol :lol

[JohnFreeman]

Wade and it's really not that close.

[Dresta]

dirk...without question

wade:
- a mediocre closer, and awful at last-second shots
- he's efficient, but one of the worst when it comes to points per possession.
- average facilitator despite having the ball in hands ad nauseum
- average defender when he plays the passing lanes.
- overrated impact player when there isn't another player with equal and/or better impact on his team.
- dirty player and relies heavily on free throws
- had seasons where he was an abysmal leader - we're seeing it this season
- responsible for winning a ring, but he had a lot of help from the refs

wade is actually one of the most overrated players of all time, tbh. guy is leading the heat OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS despite coming off a finals appearance last year. :oldlol:
Like someone else said, those all sound far more like Lebron than they do Wade. Wade has never pounded the ball to the same extent as Lebron, even when he averaged 7.5 assists: his game was predicated on making quick and decisive moves, and he could improvise (read & react) in a way Bron could only dream (see 2011 finals - see Bron's whole career in high-pressure moments).

Anyway, you just need to stop posting, because it's clear as day you're just a pitiful stan who gives not the slightest shit about simply lying and making stuff about guys you don't like, so as to prop up those you worship like gods, and show everyone the pathetic and inbred piece of human wastage you are.

[StephHamann]

In a embarrassingly weak Eastern Conference he should have been able to get more than 40 wins a season.

Dirk is a better scorer.
50/40/90
Unstoppable Fadeaway
Stretch PF
One Legged Shots
Greatest Pick and Pop Big Man
FT Machine


The fact that Wade never developed a long ranged shot sets the difference between their during arsenal.

It's like you've never watched prime Dirk

Houston Fan defending Dirk :biggums:

shows what a great nikka Dirk is.

Also if Dirk played in the east throughout his career he would have made the finals probably 4-5x times

[Bigsmoke]

Wade

I gotta keep it chi-town

[sportjames23]

Like someone else said, those all sound far more like Lebron than they do Wade. Wade has never pounded the ball to the same extent as Lebron, even when he averaged 7.5 assists: his game was predicated on making quick and decisive moves, and he could improvise (read & react) in a way Bron could only dream (see 2011 finals - see Bron's whole career in high-pressure moments).

Anyway, you just need to stop posting, because it's clear as day you're just a pitiful stan who gives not the slightest shit about simply lying and making stuff about guys you don't like, so as to prop up those you worship like gods, and show everyone the pathetic and inbred piece of human wastage you are.


Damn. :oldlol:

[coin24]

Like someone else said, those all sound far more like Lebron than they do Wade. Wade has never pounded the ball to the same extent as Lebron, even when he averaged 7.5 assists: his game was predicated on making quick and decisive moves, and he could improvise (read & react) in a way Bron could only dream (see 2011 finals - see Bron's whole career in high-pressure moments).

Anyway, you just need to stop posting, because it's clear as day you're just a pitiful stan who gives not the slightest shit about simply lying and making stuff about guys you don't like, so as to prop up those you worship like gods, and show everyone the pathetic and inbred piece of human wastage you are.


dat ether:applause:

[SilkkTheShocker]

Dirk by far.

[Real14]

Wade is better, he was top 3 in the league when bron signed over to Miami.

[G0ATbe]

Had it not been for LeBald, Dirk would've been 0-2 against Wade in the finals.

[BigNBAfan]

People forget how long Dirks been doing his thing.... him by a landslide. dude has half a decade on wade. in 5 years after dirk retires wades going to be in a wheelchair.

[pauk]

Wade was a better talent overall at his best but I like Dirk's career a bit better...

[ArbitraryWater]

We have a big ass Dirk vs Wade thread right here http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=325008 (40 pages)

and this isn't a discussion anymore... it's Dirk, and not really close either. He's still making more playoffs, winning more games, with less help, in a stronger conference, at a much older age... stop this shit.

[Real14]

Wade was a better talent overall at his best but I like Dirk's career a bit better...

I agree because Dirk earned his accomplishments:applause:

[mehyaM24]

we'll go ahead and cut the last paragraph of yours. if i wanted to read the ramblings of a psycho, i would pickup a ted bundy bio.


Like someone else said, those all sound far more like Lebron than they do Wade. Wade has never pounded the ball to the same extent as Lebron, even when he averaged 7.5 assists: his game was predicated on making quick and decisive moves, and he could improvise (read & react) in a way Bron could only dream (see 2011 finals - see Bron's whole career in high-pressure moments).

how so? lebron and wade were drafted the same year, and since both entered their primes, lebron is the guy who hasn't missed the playoffs. another wade-led team is on the verge of doing it for the second time.

not only that, but, lebron clutch statistics illustrate how much better of a late-game player he is.

http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1112/CSORT11.HTM
http://www.82games.com/1213/CSORT11.HTM

we see kobe/dirk/lebron all in the top 10 - where is wade???

bottom line - lebron's points per possession and assist/turnover ratio and PER says it all. he is a far better offensive player.

[iamgine]

Dirk easily but Wade had a higher peak.

[greatest-ever]

dirk...without question

wade:
- a mediocre closer, and awful at last-second shots
Yeah not really, Prime Wade was one of the best closers in the game, you'd know this if you watched him


- average facilitator despite having the ball in hands ad nauseum So i guess 6 assists for your career as a shooting guard is average? And its impressive to only average 3.4 turnovers a game when you handle the ball that much



- overrated impact player when there isn't another player with equal and/or better impact on his team. Evidence for this? Any time Wade has had a good team it was almost a guaranteed finals trip. The years in between Shaq & Lebron he was playing with total scrubs.

- dirty player and relies heavily on free throws This is a stupid comment, there have been a lot of star wings that generate a lot of free throws; Lebron, prime Kobe, KD, Pierce etc, idk why you are singling out Wade. And besides he's averaged 18 off field goals alone for his career.


- had seasons where he was an abysmal leader - we're seeing it this season
- responsible for winning a ring, but he had a lot of help from the refs These 2 statments contradict one another, you poor leaders don't lead their teams to championships. This season isn't proof of anything. They've dealt with a ton of injuries and inconsistent lineups, Wade isn't putting up empty stats. They've won plenty of games from him beasting. The whole refs thing about 06 has gotten so old, Wade got a lot of free throws in that Dallas Series because they couldn't stop him from attacking the rim, and he averaged over 22 ppg on field goals alone.


wade is actually one of the most overrated players of all time, tbh. guy is leading the heat OUT OF THE PLAYOFFS despite coming off a finals appearance last year. :oldlol:
Again, injuries and you are heavily criticizing him when he's 33 and past his prime.

Your post wasn't an argument for Dirk, it's just a post bashing Wade as best as you can. I rank Dirk higher as well but it's because of longevity only. The disrespect Wade is receiving by people here is embarrassing.

[pauk]

Wade is better, he was top 3 in the league when bron signed over to Miami.

Top 3 was arguable due to Durant/Howard, but he definitely was Top 5.... Dirk hanged around just there within top 10.... the season (2011) Lebron/Wade played together Wade was less than that but still within top 10, so was Dirk again.... but once both were done with their playoff runs Dirk got boosted much higher than him that year, some would even go as far to even say Dirk was the best player in the NBA that year... an honor/title Wade never reached i think...

[SHAQisGOAT]

Dirk but it's extremely close and I can see Wade above

[greatest-ever]

Top 3 was arguable due to Durant/Howard, but he definitely was Top 5.... Dirk hanged around just there within top 10.... the season (2011) Lebron/Wade played together Wade was less than that but still within top 10, so was Dirk again.... but once both were done with their playoff runs Dirk got boosted much higher than him that year, some would even go as far to even say Dirk was the best player in the NBA that year... an honor/title Wade never reached i think...
Durant had no argument over Wade in 2010. He was probably a better scorer but that's it, his playmaking was very weak and his defense was nonexistent. Wade was a concensus top 3-4 that season. Plus Kd was horrible in his playoff series that year while Wade carved up the best defense in the league in his series.

Wade was also a concensus top 4 in 2011 too. Only Lbj Dirk and Howard had an argument as better. If Dirk was the best player that season then Wade has an argument as the best in 06.

[aj1987]

Top 3 was arguable due to Durant/Howard, but he definitely was Top 5.... Dirk hanged around just there within top 10.... the season (2011) Lebron/Wade played together Wade was less than that but still within top 10, so was Dirk again.... but once both were done with their playoff runs Dirk got boosted much higher than him that year, some would even go as far to even say Dirk was the best player in the NBA that year... an honor/title Wade never reached i think...
If you're talking about them as Players, '11 Wade >> '11 Durant. Dude was basically a traffic cone on defense and a subpar facilitator. The top 3 that season were Wade, LeBron, and Howard IMO (in no order). Cases could be made for Dirk and Rose though. Durant was not even top 5 that season. Stop looking at numbers.

[WallIn]

Dirk Nowitzki of course.

[T_L_P]

Like someone else said, those all sound far more like Lebron than they do Wade. Wade has never pounded the ball to the same extent as Lebron, even when he averaged 7.5 assists: his game was predicated on making quick and decisive moves, and he could improvise (read & react) in a way Bron could only dream (see 2011 finals - see Bron's whole career in high-pressure moments).

Anyway, you just need to stop posting, because it's clear as day you're just a pitiful stan who gives not the slightest shit about simply lying and making stuff about guys you don't like, so as to prop up those you worship like gods, and show everyone the pathetic and inbred piece of human wastage you are.
:bowdown:

[Maverick Sniper]

Wade
3x NBA champion
1x FMVP
11x NBA all star
1x All Star game MVP
2x All NBA first team
3x All NBA second team
3x All NBA third team
3x All NBA defensive 2nd team

Dirk
NBA Champion
1x FMVP
1x NBA MVP
12x NBA All star
4x All NBA first team
5x All NBA second team
3x All NBA third team
50-40-90 club (07)

If you're talking about their entire career, i'd say Dirk had the better career. But in their primes, i'd say Wade had the better peak. Much more upside, however you can't go wrong with neither one, it's a VERY close debate!

[Lebron23]

Give me the guy with 3 NBA Championship. And the guy who's a better playoffs and finals performer.

And that man is Dwyane Wade.

[kshutts1]

Wade's the better player... when he plays.

If I have to pick one to have for their career, I pick Dirk. Wade had the better peak, though.

[ArbitraryWater]

If you're talking about them as Players, '11 Wade >> '11 Durant. Dude was basically a traffic cone on defense and a subpar facilitator. The top 3 that season were Wade, LeBron, and Howard IMO (in no order). Cases could be made for Dirk and Rose though. Durant was not even top 5 that season. Stop looking at numbers.

Now Dirk wasn't even top 3 in 2011 :crazysam: :crazysam:

You better make some cases for Wade/Howard lmao

[aj1987]

Now Dirk wasn't even top 3 in 2011

You better make some cases for Wade/Howard lmao
Wade - Better defender, scorer, passer, and almost equal rebounders (10.2% TRB vs 12% TRB in Dirk's favor).

Dwight - 23/14 with DPOY.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Dirk just because of longevity, but I would pick Wade at his best over peak Dirk.

Lol at all of those "not even close" comments.
:kobe:

[Papaya Petee]

Wade

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade - Better defender, scorer, passer, and almost equal rebounders (10.2% TRB vs 12% TRB in Dirk's favor).

Dwight - 23/14 with DPOY.

Dirk: Legendary playoff run, GOAT level value.

Mavs 2-7 without him in the regular season, on pace for #1 record in NBA with Dirk.

28/8/3/1/1 on 49%
Led Team to Championship

For the WCF and Finals (11 games), Dirk scored 10+ points on 50+% in every 4th quarter but for 3 games, in which he all scored 9.

Led an epic comeback in game 4 @ OKC, and another epic comeback in game 2 @ Miami.
In total Dirk had 2 game-winning plays in the NBA finals, the game 2 winner and the game 4 sealing shot up 1.

One of the greatest playoff runs of all-time.

Went through Aldridge, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Bosh, Wade and LeBron James.... GREAT TEAMS.

GOAT clutch play (highest 4th q playoff ppg since its being recorded - 9.9 ppg)

Wade isn't even close to that kind of impact.. he did less with more, in fact.

You know Wade/Howard wouldn't have yielded better results in Dirk's spot.

[aj1987]

Dirk: Legendary playoff run, GOAT level value.

Mavs 2-7 without him in the regular season, on pace for #1 record in NBA with Dirk.

28/8/3/1/1 on 49%
Led Team to Championship

For the WCF and Finals (11 games), Dirk scored 10+ points on 50+% in every 4th quarter but for 3 games, in which he all scored 9.

Led an epic comeback in game 4 @ OKC, and another epic comeback in game 2 @ Miami.
In total Dirk had 2 game-winning plays in the NBA finals, the game 2 winner and the game 4 sealing shot up 1.

One of the greatest playoff runs of all-time.

Went through Aldridge, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Bosh, Wade and LeBron James.... GREAT TEAMS.

GOAT clutch play (highest 4th q playoff ppg since its being recorded - 9.9 ppg)

Wade isn't even close to that kind of impact.. he did less with more, in fact.

You know Wade/Howard wouldn't have yielded better results in Dirk's spot.
Wade was one LeBron choke and a missed three away from owning Dirk TWICE in the Finals. Wade averaged 7.3 points on 55% in the 4th Q's in the Finals. As I said, one MASSIVE LeChoke away owning Dirk TWICE in the Finals.

Wade - Better scorer, playmaker, and defender.

EDIT: Why are you ignoring the RS, BTW? You're ignoring 75+ games sample from the RS, during which Wade was CLEARLY a better player?

[Aussie Dunker]

Dirk has a decent chance to pass MJ in career points when it is all said and done - when you are up that high, as well as having 12 All NBA teams, MVP, Finals MVP, Ring... then to be better career wise we are talking pretty much a top 15 player of all time - Wade doesn't make my top 15,

I say Dirk finishes between 14-18 all time and Wade more like 20-25 all time...

Both very admirable players, a pleasure to be apart of both of their journey's...

[ArbitraryWater]

Wade was one LeBron choke and a missed three away from owning Dirk TWICE in the Finals. Wade averaged 7.3 points on 55% in the 4th Q's in the Finals. As I said, one MASSIVE LeChoke away owning Dirk TWICE in the Finals.

Wade - Better scorer, playmaker, and defender.

EDIT: Why are you ignoring the RS, BTW? You're ignoring 75+ games sample from the RS, during which Wade was CLEARLY a better player?

The "better scorer, playmaker, defender" breakdown is pretty meh.. too simplistic. According to stuff like that KG would be > Magic.

Wade isn't even a better scorer, either.

And how was Wade a clearly better player in the regular season?

Healthy Dirk had the Mavs on pace fort #1 record in the NBA, without Dirk they were 2-7.

So as proven, obviously he had much greater impact, and carried a much greater load.

Dirk then wrecked Wade in numerous 4th quarters.

[aj1987]

The "better scorer, playmaker, defender" breakdown is pretty meh.. too simplistic. According to stuff like that KG would be > Magic.
Sure, depends on the season though. For their careers? Magic >> KG.


Wade isn't even a better scorer, either.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
:facepalm


And how was Wade a clearly better player in the regular season?
He was the better scorer, defender, passer, and almost equal rebounder. How many times do you want me to say that?


Dirk then wrecked LeBron in numerous 4th quarters.
FTFY.

Wade - 7.3 PPG on 55%
LeBron - 3 PPG on 33%

:roll: :roll:

[ArbitraryWater]

Can you point to any visable impact over Dirk, a superior series he had, a moment in the clutch where he outdid him, etc. besides the "better playmaker, better defender" ?

[aj1987]

Can you point to any visable impact over Dirk, a superior series he had, a moment in the clutch where he outdid him, etc. besides the "better playmaker, better defender" ?
The Finals? Wade was literally on pace to own Dirk and the Mav's TWICE in the Fianls until LeChoke decided to pull off the GOAT choke job.

LeBron - 3 PPG on 33% in the 4th in the Finals.

Also, you still haven't said why Dirk was a better scorer. For the FINAL time, Wade was the better scorer, passer, and defender. Can you disprove any of that?

[mehyaM24]

He was the better scorer, defender, passer, and almost equal rebounder. How many times do you want me to say that?

you can repeat this until you're blue in the face, just doesn't make it true.

dirk outscored wade by 3 points in the postseason and on much higher percentages (61%TS vs 57%TS).

and for all the categories wade was supposedly better at, dirk actually brought more impact to his teams. we have data which adjusts individual impact (rapm), and dirk led the league for the entire year. the #1 impact player in the game.

wade? not in the top 5.

tl;dr - you have no idea what you're talking about.

[aj1987]

you can repeat this until you're blue in the face, just doesn't make it true.

dirk outscored wade by 3 points in the postseason and on much higher percentages (61%TS vs 57%TS).

and for all the categories wade was supposedly better at, dirk actually brought more impact to his teams. we have data which adjusts individual impact (rapm), and dirk led the league for the entire year.

wade? not in the top 5.

tl;dr - you have no idea what you're talking about.
You can delude yourself till you die, but it doesn't change the reality.

So, we're ignoring the ENTIRE RS now?

RAMP? How about PER, OWS, DWS, WS, WS/48, OBPM, DBPM, BPM, and VORP? Guess who leads in all those advanced stats among the two.

If you honestly believe that Wade is not in the top 5, LeBron isn't either, ****face. They were basically equal that season and Wade didn't have an EPIC choke job in the Finals.

tl;dr - you have so much LeBron jizz covering your face that you can't see clearly.

[mehyaM24]

You can delude yourself till you die, but it doesn't change the reality.

So, we're ignoring the ENTIRE RS now?

nothing you've said meets the requirements of reality.

fyi, RAPM is an individual stat which also includes postseason play. PER is an efficiency stat. your other metrics are team-based, and are without adjustments. RAPM & RPM actually adjust for teammates and opposition.

wade was definitely a top 5 player, just not better or more impactful than dirk. fact.

[aj1987]

nothing you've said meets the requirements of reality.

fyi, RAPM is an individual stat which also includes postseason play. PER is an efficiency stat, your other metrics are team-based without any adjustments. RAPM & rpm actually adjust for teammates and opposition.

wade was definitely a top 5 player, just not better or more impactful than dirk. fact.
Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Food for thought - LeBron had a player who was equal to Dirk in '11 and he still managed to choke away the Finals. He basically had a player who was equal to the BEST player on the Mav's. And lost. Let that sink in.

:roll: :roll:

3 PPG on 33% in the 4th quarters.

[mehyaM24]

Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Food for thought - LeBron had a player who was equal to Dirk in '11 and he still managed to choke away the Finals. He basically had a player who was equal to the BEST player on the Mav's. And lost. Let that sink in.

:roll: :roll:

3 PPG on 33% in the 4th quarters.

lets stick to the topic at hand.

wade was never dirk's equal in 2011, as the impact data suggests - impact data used by teams & gm's around the nba, along with analysts for big market sports websites.

bottom line - dirk led the ENTIRE league with a 7.84 RAPM - a net impact that is literally staggering.

[aj1987]

lets stick to the topic at hand.

wade was never dirk's equal in 2011, as the impact data suggests - impact data used by teams & gm's around the nba, along with analysts for big market sports websites.

bottom line - dirk led the ENTIRE league with a 7.84 RAPM - a net impact that is literally staggering.
You do know that Manu, Nash, KG, and Nick freaking Collison had a higher RAPM than Wade, right? Were they more "impactful" that Wade?

Oh, and KG > LeBron in '11 according to RAPM and Nash, Manu, and Nick are just half a point away from LeBron.

GOAT stat. :bowdown:

[mehyaM24]

You do know that Manu, Nash, KG, and Nick freaking Collison had a higher RAPM than Wade, right? Were they more "impactful" that Wade?

the stat, like any other, must be used in context. wouldn't expect an ignoramus like you to understand, so let me explain.

for a legit comparison, the players you wish to compare, must have BOTH similar minutes and roles. e.g., nash in 2011 who was STILL an elite offensive player, but consider his minutes - same thing with collison.

you could literally find "wtf is he doing there" players, in any stat, without applied context.

[aj1987]

the stat, like any other, must be used in context. wouldn't expect an ignoramus like you to understand, so let me explain.

for a legit comparison, the players you wish to compare, must have BOTH similar minutes and roles. e.g., nash in 2011 who was STILL an elite offensive player, but consider his minutes - same thing with collison.

you could literally find "wtf is he doing there" players, in any stat, without applied context.
You literally base your entire judgement of players on that one single stat.

It's pretty obvious that you're NEVER watched a single basketball game. I'm just wasting my time arguing with a person whose IQ is in the single digits.

Now I know why almost EVERYONE hates LeBron stats and the hate that LeBron gets.

[plowking]

I remember back just before the 2006 seasons started, Kobe Bryant was rated like 16th all time on this board. With less FMVP's than current Wade, less contributions to championships than current Wade, worse raw stats, worse overall career stats, etc. Yet, now take Wade, and people keep disrespecting him. Funny.

One guy wins a ring, and gets called the clutch king, when prior to 2011 he was known as a choker and as the dude who lost as the 1st seed in the first round. Dirk has gone through a transformation almost as great as Hakeem after winning a championship(s).

Wade has more rings, better finals performances, better playoff performer, better peak, better raw stats, better defense, and for the sake of being kind in the argument, equal offense.

Wade missed the playoffs? When exactly? Once in his entire career so far. This season is up for debate. Dirk missed it in 12-13 too, just two seasons removed from a championship... He has missed it another 2 times. So 3 missed playoffs for Dirk, to 1 so far for Wade. Even if he doesn't make it this season, 2.
Wade has also finished with the 1st seed in his conference more times than Dirk has.

Interesting.

[mehyaM24]

You literally base your entire judgement of players on that one single stat.

It's pretty obvious that you're NEVER watched a single basketball game. I'm just wasting my time arguing with a person whose IQ is in the single digits.

Now I know why almost EVERYONE hates LeBron stats and the hate that LeBron gets.
i like using per and various raw stats, but never to make a full conclusion. rapm along with the eye test are the best measures to use, because using just raw stats (or advanced stats that don't account for teammates/opposition) will give you ****ed up results.

your opinion that wade was better than dirk is just one of many examples - wade literally had no case.

glad that i could educate you on the topic. if you have any more questions on rapm, and how its calculated, PM me for advice.

[aj1987]

i'm a ****ing retard.
Not gonna disagree with you there. :cheers:

[mehyaM24]

Not gonna disagree with you there. :cheers:
facts tend to hurt, but you'll be alright. :cheers:

for a breakdown of impact on the 2011 season, checkout:
http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm/2011-rapm/

[plowking]

Why isn't Dirk penalized for missing the playoffs more than Wade?
Why isn't Dirk penalized for his choke as the 1st seed?
Why aren't we giving Wade props for overall outplaying Dirk in the finals they faced?

[Lebron23]

To me Wade is a top 15-20 player of all time. I put him above Barkley and Malone because wade proved that he was capable of winning a finals MVP, and a 3x NBA Championship.

People are criticizing Wade's lack of season MVP's but he was a perennial MVP candidate during his prime.

[aj1987]

http://i.imgur.com/88SF74o.jpg

:cheers:

GOAT choke job. Cost Wade a ring and a FMVP.

[Kobe_6/8]

Wade - better peak
Dirk - better career

Playoffs - Wade

[mehyaM24]

Why isn't Dirk penalized for missing the playoffs more than Wade?
Why isn't Dirk penalized for his choke as the 1st seed?
Why aren't we giving Wade props for overall outplaying Dirk in the finals they faced?
you raise valid points, and its something to consider when comparing their careers h2h (what op actually asked).

i'm simply discussing the 2011 season, where dirk had the strongest case for best player.

[tpols]

Why isn't Dirk penalized for missing the playoffs more than Wade?
Why isn't Dirk penalized for his choke as the 1st seed?
Why aren't we giving Wade props for overall outplaying Dirk in the finals they faced?

Because in one of them wade got like 200 free throws.. and was like Harden on roids.. and in the other he had way more help with bosh and even a shitty bran. And wade was at times carried by bran and bosh specifically in the ECF's.. while dirk was dropping 45 on 12 shots wade was shooting like 49 TS against Keith bogans..

why do you ignore the playoffs as a whole and focus on only 25% of them? Why do you ignore the difference in dirk and wades help especially relative to competition ?

[plowking]

Because in one of them wade got like 200 free throws.. and was like Harden on roids.. and in the other he had way more help with bosh and even a shitty bran. And wade was at times carried by bran and bosh specifically in the ECF's.. while dirk was dropping 45 on 12 shots wade was shooting like 49 TS against Keith bogans..

why do you ignore the playoffs as a whole and focus on only 25% of them? Why do you ignore the difference in dirk and wades help especially relative to competition ?

Wade had less help in 2006 than Dirk and he won.

And it was actually Dirk who had 200 free throws. He set a record for most free throws made in a playoff run in 2006.
Wade simply shot free throws he deserved. Kobe averaged the same amount of free throws in a 6 game series as Wade did against Utah. No one said anything then.

[navy]

Because in one of them wade got like 200 free throws.. and was like Harden on roids.. and in the other he had way more help with bosh and even a shitty bran. And wade was at times carried by bran and bosh specifically in the ECF's.. while dirk was dropping 45 on 12 shots wade was shooting like 49 TS against Keith bogans..

why do you ignore the playoffs as a whole and focus on only 25% of them? Why do you ignore the difference in dirk and wades help especially relative to competition ?
Why do people keep pretending like Dirk had no help?

Highest payroll in the league, Rick Carlisle coaching, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry,Shawn Marion, Barea. Mavs literally dropping every three pointer that they threw up while Dirk was struggling. The Heat had the big 3, but everyone else after that probably didnt even belong in the league.

[aj1987]

Because in one of them wade got like 200 free throws..
You do know that Dirk averaged just 0.9 FT's fewer than Wade that postseason, right?

Dirk - 8.6 FT/G
Wade - 7.3 FT/G

Wade has made more FT's/G in the PO's than Wade has attempted.

[Wade's Rings]

I remember back just before the 2006 seasons started, Kobe Bryant was rated like 16th all time on this board. With less FMVP's than current Wade, less contributions to championships than current Wade, worse raw stats, worse overall career stats, etc. Yet, now take Wade, and people keep disrespecting him. Funny.

One guy wins a ring, and gets called the clutch king, when prior to 2011 he was known as a choker and as the dude who lost as the 1st seed in the first round. Dirk has gone through a transformation almost as great as Hakeem after winning a championship(s).

Wade has more rings, better finals performances, better playoff performer, better peak, better raw stats, better defense, and for the sake of being kind in the argument, equal offense.

Wade missed the playoffs? When exactly? Once in his entire career so far. This season is up for debate. Dirk missed it in 12-13 too, just two seasons removed from a championship... He has missed it another 2 times. So 3 missed playoffs for Dirk, to 1 so far for Wade. Even if he doesn't make it this season, 2.
Wade has also finished with the 1st seed in his conference more times than Dirk has.

Interesting.

:bowdown: :applause:


To me Wade is a top 15-20 player of all time. I put him above Barkley and Malone because wade proved that he was capable of winning a finals MVP, and a 3x NBA Championship.

People are criticizing Wade's lack of season MVP's but he was a perennial MVP candidate during his prime.

:applause:


Wade had less help in 2006 than Dirk and he won.

And it was actually Dirk who had 200 free throws. He set a record for most free throws made in a playoff run in 2006.
Wade simply shot free throws he deserved. Kobe averaged the same amount of free throws in a 6 game series as Wade did against Utah. No one said anything then.

:lebronamazed:

Kobe also had a Series vs the Kings in 2001 where he shot 15 FTs per Game.


Why do people keep pretending like Dirk had no help?

Highest payroll in the league, Rick Carlisle coaching, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry,Shawn Marion, Barea. Mavs literally dropping every three pointer that they threw up while Dirk was struggling. The Heat had the big 3, but everyone else after that probably didnt even belong in the league.
:applause:

[tpols]

Why do people keep pretending like Dirk had no help?

Highest payroll in the league, Rick Carlisle coaching, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry,Shawn Marion, Barea. Mavs literally dropping every three pointer that they threw up while Dirk was struggling. The Heat had the big 3, but everyone else after that probably didnt even belong in the league.

I didn't say he had no help.. but that he had less. which he did. Not a single one of the players you listed was better than 2011 lebron/bosh. And Heat defense was > mavs by a sizeable amount.

The mavs were focused on stopping lebron and after wade looked like shit in the ECF, wade took them by surprise playing with less attention than he was accustomed to.. while dirk was getting hardcore shadowed by an ATG defense. Still destroying when buckets were needed in the clutch.

Dirk all things accounted for was better than wade in those playoffS. Finals are close but dirk closed games with more attention paid to him while wade couldnt.with less. Rest of the playoffs go to Dirk as well.. he destroyed the thunder who were really stacked almost single handedly and was just godmode scoring in a way wade really never was that year.

[masonanddixon]

Dirk is obviously better but Wade is in the 25-35 range.

[masonanddixon]

I didn't say he had no help.. but that he had less. which he did. Not a single one of the players you listed was better than 2011 lebron/bosh. And Heat defense was > mavs by a sizeable amount.

The mavs were focused on stopping lebron and after wade looked like shit in the ECF, wade took them by surprise playing with less attention than he was accustomed to.. while dirk was getting hardcore shadowed by an ATG defense. Still destroying when buckets were needed in the clutch.

Dirk all things accounted for was better than wade in those playoffS. Finals are close but dirk closed games with more attention paid to him while wade couldnt.with less. Rest of the playoffs go to Dirk as well.. he destroyed the thunder who were really stacked almost single handedly and was just godmode scoring in a way wade really never was that year.

No the Mavs defense was incredible that 2011 postseason. Far better than Miami and they shut down every superstar that postseason.

[oarabbus]

You can't teach 7' and that level of shooting skill.

If Dirk and Wade were both incoming in the 2016 NBA draft and you were the GM, you'd have to be a nutcase to take Wade over Dirk.

[Dresta]

I didn't say he had no help.. but that he had less. which he did. Not a single one of the players you listed was better than 2011 lebron/bosh. And Heat defense was > mavs by a sizeable amount.

The mavs were focused on stopping lebron and after wade looked like shit in the ECF, wade took them by surprise playing with less attention than he was accustomed to.. while dirk was getting hardcore shadowed by an ATG defense. Still destroying when buckets were needed in the clutch.

Dirk all things accounted for was better than wade in those playoffS. Finals are close but dirk closed games with more attention paid to him while wade couldnt.with less. Rest of the playoffs go to Dirk as well.. he destroyed the thunder who were really stacked almost single handedly and was just godmode scoring in a way wade really never was that year.
Dirk wouldn't have been able to close it out either if he had that big-forheaded freak on his team, pounding the life out of the ball and getting left in the dust by Jason Terry. Game 2, when Wade gave Miami that big lead, Bron came back into the game and threw all the momentum away trying to statpad. The man is clearly just jealous of anyone else getting the glory - he's a selfish and irritating narcissist, and that was pretty clear to me while he was in Miami, even.

I've seen that series more than once and the defense Bron faced was nothing special, and Wade got planty of attention also (one poor series doesn't stop a team defending an mvp level player, especially one that tore the Celtics apart). Saying this is what allowed him to dominate is a complete fallacy, and makes no sense whatsoever. If it helped Wade then it helped Lebron as well (because with the way Wade was playing it would've freed Bron up a bit, but he was too shook/sulky to take advantage). He was slow and predictable in his attacks to the rim and so just threw up poor jumpshots while looking lazy as hell. And why is this argument not applied to other people: one wonders how on earth Kobe managed only 16ppg of 37% shooting with Shaq drawing so much attention, or even 2004 against the Pistons - what happened then?

If this argument were at all valid, 2nd options would be outscoring 1st options all over the league, because they can take advantage of all the extra help going to that first guy. What!? This isn't the case!? You mean to tell me that team's and coaches can actually extensively plan for and defend more than one player at a time? Tell me it ain't so!!

[Dresta]

facts tend to hurt, but you'll be alright. :cheers:

for a breakdown of impact on the 2011 season, checkout:
http://www.gotbuckets.com/statistics/rapm/2011-rapm/
Well, what's immediately evident is that Wade's offensive RAPM for that year was actually higher than Dirk's (6.29 to 5.93) and 2nd only to Steve Nash (so higher than Bron's too, by more than a whole point).

And only a moron would argue that Dirk is a better defender at his position than Wade is at his. So what you've really just done is post something that argues (to any logical person, so this excludes you) that Wade had a greater impact than Dirk that season. Dirk had Tyson Chandler bumping his defensive numbers (see his defensive RAPM in the 3 years preceding 2011, all zero, or below zero). What does all this say about your assertions? That they are pure nonsense propounded as fact, when they in fact contain a complete absence of anything even resembling a 'fact.'


Why do people keep pretending like Dirk had no help?

Highest payroll in the league, Rick Carlisle coaching, Tyson Chandler, Jason Kidd, Jason Terry,Shawn Marion, Barea. Mavs literally dropping every three pointer that they threw up while Dirk was struggling. The Heat had the big 3, but everyone else after that probably didnt even belong in the league.
Because they are deluded and think only in terms of star players. "1 star player or 2, or 3?" - this is the only thing worthy of consideration in their eyes, as if coach and depth don't matter one bit ('oh, i'm sure it didn't hurt Miami's chances to have to start Bibby and Joel Anthony in the finals'); basically, eyes blinded by years of playing NBA 2k in the basement.

[HiphopRelated]

The one with more rings and was better in both Finals

[mehyaM24]

Well, what's immediately evident is that Wade's offensive RAPM for that year was actually higher than Dirk's (6.29 to 5.93) and 2nd only to Steve Nash (so higher than Bron's too, by more than a whole point).

And only a moron would argue that Dirk is a better defender at his position than Wade is at his. So what you've really just done is post something that argues (to any logical person, so this excludes you) that Wade had a greater impact than Dirk that season. Dirk had Tyson Chandler bumping his defensive numbers (see his defensive RAPM in the 3 years preceding 2011, all zero, or below zero). What does all this say about your assertions? That they are pure nonsense propounded as fact, when they in fact contain a complete absence of anything even resembling a 'fact.'
all the metric shows is dirk's drpm (presumingly defensive rebounding) brought more impact to his team than wade's did (omg a big with more defensive impact than a guard!!! who would have thought???) whether that had to do with tyson chandler's personality is up for discussion, but rapm actually adjusts for teammates so tyson's defensive impact shouldn't even be discussed.

as far as offense goes, i assume wade's offensive impact was only percentage points higher because of the games dirk missed in the rs along with the 3 or 4 less mpg. either way, its negligible after what we saw in the playoffs.

[greatest-ever]

Dirk: Legendary playoff run, GOAT level value.

Mavs 2-7 without him in the regular season, on pace for #1 record in NBA with Dirk.

28/8/3/1/1 on 49%
Led Team to Championship

For the WCF and Finals (11 games), Dirk scored 10+ points on 50+% in every 4th quarter but for 3 games, in which he all scored 9.

Led an epic comeback in game 4 @ OKC, and another epic comeback in game 2 @ Miami.
In total Dirk had 2 game-winning plays in the NBA finals, the game 2 winner and the game 4 sealing shot up 1.

One of the greatest playoff runs of all-time.

Went through Aldridge, Gasol, Bynum, Odom, Kobe, Harden, Westbrook, Durant, Bosh, Wade and LeBron James.... GREAT TEAMS.

GOAT clutch play (highest 4th q playoff ppg since its being recorded - 9.9 ppg)

Wade isn't even close to that kind of impact.. he did less with more, in fact.

You know Wade/Howard wouldn't have yielded better results in Dirk's spot.
Wade didn't go through great teams in the playoffs? What about the Celtics who were a top 3 defense? And he put up roughly 30 7 5 on 62 ts% against them? Then faced the bulls who won 62+ games and were a top 3 defense? The fact is Wade faced tougher defenses en route to the finals. Then had a better statistical finals than Dirk did with 27 7 5 on 62 ts%.

I'm not neccesarily arguing Wade had a better season, but its fair to say Wade's impact was roughly in the same ballpark as Dirk's.

[Alan Ogg]

Wade is my all-time favorite player, but Dirk definitely ranks higher all-time.

[Wade's Rings]

Ignore the bump...accidentally unsubscribed from thread

[Vertical-24]

I'm actually gonna go with D3 on this one guys.

- Outperformed Dirk in two Finals appearance
- Better playoff performer
- Consistently Better Player during his Prime Years
- 3rd Greatest SG of All Time
- Superior defensive player
- Championships (2 as a sidekick but still a Top 10 player each run)

Its ridiculously close so it wouldn't bother me one way or another though :confusedshrug:

[GreggPopazit]

You do know that Dirk averaged just 0.9 FT's fewer than Wade that postseason, right?

Dirk - 8.6 FT/G
Wade - 7.3 FT/G

Wade has made more FT's/G in the PO's than Wade has attempted.

Wade averaged over 16fta per game over 6 games in the Finals. That is ****ing unreal.

[And1AllDay]

Wade...

One of the most dominant Finals performances ever (check)
Against Dirk, no less (check)
Scoring title (check)
Amazing peak (check)

And of course, the main reason...

DEFENSE.

Case closed

[And1AllDay]

Dirk has never finished below .500 once since 2000, Wade has practically finished below .500 during his peak seasons.

Dirk has an argument for the greatest PF on offense.

Dirk has consistently been good.

Dirk has the advantage in terms of individual achievements. (Wade's two extra sidekick rings aren't as impressive as Dirk's MVP season).

Wade's peak in general is overrated, if he had actually won games he'd have the significant advantage over Dirk.

We gonna compare peak seasons now? Since Dirk's MVP is getting a little overrated.

Dirk's MVP year: 24.6 rpg, 8.9 rpg, 3,4 apg, 0.8 bpg, .7 spg (50/42/90)

Wade 09: 30.2 ppg, 5.0 rpg, 7.5 apg, 1.3 bpg, 2.2 spg (49/32/77)

Wade's "MVP" year was better than Dirk's MVP year...

[And1AllDay]

Oh and I almost forgot, Dirk lost as the #1 seed to the #8 seed Warriors.

Wade > Dirk

[pastis]

Dirk Nowitzki 2006 (so the year before he won the MVP)

Winning 60 Games
led the league in Win Shares,
led the league in Win Shares Per 48 Minutes,
led the league in Offensive Win Shares, Offensive Rating and Player Efficiency Rating
7th in Points Per Game, 17th in Defensive Win Shares, 6th Defensive Rebounds, 14th in Total Rebounds, 16th in Rebounds per game, 7th in Value Over Replacement Player.
Stats: 26.6 PTS, 9.0 TRB, 1.0 BLK, 2.8 AST, 0.7 STL, 48.0 FG%, 40.6 3PT%, 90.1 FT%.

and pointguard: what does the payroll say about the teams? look at dirk teams from 2005-2010. And then again from 2012-unti now. Mavs best player next to Dirk over those years was Terry who shot 3x times under 40% in the playoffs. Driks 2006-2007 teams were with adrian griffin and diop starting, the bench with marquise daniel,s van horn, stackhouse, terry, harris.
From 08-10 he had starting d.george, antoine wright, erica dampier, terry, barea, matt caroll, kidd and shawne williams.
SO with how many alll stars or all-nba players dirk played in those years?
Cuban just overpaid this scrub. nothing new. he alwways did this and is still doing it.

Further more i dont see how Wade is a better playoff performer. Dirk is probably as good as Kobe as a playoff performer.

And about his peak? Would still take Dirks 2006-2007,2009,2010,2011 years over every wade year as a franchise player. I really dont see this "wades peak" thing.
and about defense: Dirks defense from 2004-2011 was pretty good. well above average and he deserved 2 2nd all defense selections at minimum. Most of you guys are talking without watching Dirk closely like i did from 2005 on


im pretty shocked about all those guys saying wade. probaly guys who never watched dirk closely, because he doesnt make the flashy plays and dunks. Well, im pretty sure that any real nba expert wll take dirk comfortably over wade in any all time ranking list. and def. not because his longevity

[TheMarkMadsen]

so close, I'd give the edge to Dirk because of longevity..

[TripleA]

Both are top 25 players. Wade peaked higher while Dirk has better longevity.
I give it to Wade for his ridiculous performances in the playoffs and clutchness.

[TheCorporation]

Peak is clearly Wade
Longevity is clearly Dirk

Then we look at hardware? Wade has 3 rings to Dirk's 1. But Dirk has the Regular season MVP. Wade has as Scoring title, too.

On offense, you could probably argue either was better, it's close, but I give the edge to Wade. Dirk's team was always winning a lot more games than Wade's but Wade's teams weren't the best/he got injured too.

I think what really makes the difference is being a two way player. Dirk and Wade are both amazing offensive players, BUT, Wade also is an amazing defensive player and Dirk just isn't. So because Wade is so much better at defending I have to select Dwyane Wade.

[bizil]

Wow this is a close one in my opinion. U could argue either guy. If Wade had better durability, it would be Wade NO QUESTION! Those three rings would be the deciding factor. But since Wade's durability has been suspect, Dirk's longevity could give him the edge. Dirk has a ring, Finals MVP, Regular Season MVP, AND REDEFINED HIS POSITION!

In GOAT status, your impact on the game is A HUGE FACTOR! Anytime u change the game, that's a huge plus. There was never a 7 footer with Dirk's scoring skillset. I think he's more responsible for the stretch PF craze than anybody.

But the difference with Dirk was the fact that he's a 7 footer. It wasn't an undersized PF kind of situation. Dirk took what McAdoo did at 6'10 and took it to another level. As great as D-Wade was, he didn't redefine the SG position.

[ArbitraryWater]

This is not close at all really..

they're equals from 2005-2011, with Dirk being noticeably better in 2008 and 2011... and besides that, Dirk has an extra career of a bunch of all-star seasons while Wade has very little... Dirk in 2014 was better than 11 year Wade..

Dirk = top 15
Wade = top 25


how is peak clearly Wade lol...

They were considered same tier players in 2006, 2007, 2010, 2011... Wade got the upper hand in the '09 regular season, then Dirk had the massively better post-season.

[derb2k2]

Wade and it's not even close. Dominates on both ends of the court.

[bizil]

Peak wise, Wade was an alpha dog AND great all around player. As great as Dirk was, the only thing he was truly great at was scoring. He could be very good rebounder at times. But he was only an average defender and passer.

Wade was GREAT at scoring, passing, defending, and rebounding his position. PLUS he was a freak athlete on top of it. The only perimeter players who were like that are MJ, Bron, Kobe, and a healthy G Hill. So peak, give me Wade. Career wise, I think Dirk may have pulled ahead of D Wade. For their respective positions, they rank around the same area GOAT wise. Which is in that top 3-5 area.

[MrC1991]

This was a tough choice for me, but I gave a slight edge to Drik Diggler on this one. I wouldn't hesitate to take either one on my team though.

[Papaya Petee]

At their best Wade no question
Dirk has the longevity.


I go with Wade, but no problem with anyone saying Dirk.

Had Lebron showed up in 2011 this wouldn't even be a debate though. I have both ranked around 19-25 all time

[ZMonkey11]

Not knowing anything about my team in a league redraft and i had a choice between the two, id easily take dirk without hesitating.

[Fire Colangelo]

Wade has 5 elite injury free seasons in 05, 06, 09, 10, and 11...

Not sure if I'd take that over a decade of greatness from Dirk.

[ArbitraryWater]

At their best, I'm taking Dirk.. 2006 Dirk, 2009-2011 Dirk.. longevity wise its not even a question though.

[mehyaM24]

that's a no-brainer.. its dirk without question

better playoff performer, faced better competition, less injury prone, and had a better finals/championship run (one that didn't rely on officiating).

dirk's had better lonevity too. he's still a player that impacts the game at a very high level offensively (top 5 of all PFs). otoh, wade isn't even a top 10 offensive player at his position.

[Dragonyeuw]

I don't think Dirk's best eclipses Wade's( 2009) but Dallas has been a playoff team in spite of several roster changes all around Dirk. To me, he's been as much of a rock to the Mavs as Duncan has been for the Spurs. GOAT rankings-wise, I have Dirk around 18th, Wade anywhere from 21-23. I can't ignore a short peak, albeit a great one.

[mehyaM24]

dirk's best in 2011 > wade's best in 2009 - first round knockout against a team lebron's WOAT help swept

[mlp]

Had Lebron showed up in 2011 this wouldn't even be a debate though.

maybe wade should have stepped up in the 4th quarters?
or should have shown his superior defense against terry and barea?

[mehyaM24]

maybe wade should have stepped up in the 4th quarters?
or should have shown his superior defense against terry and barea?

very good point - but will be ignored by people that HATE lebron. :lol

[R.I.P.]

Wade was past his prime from 2012-2014 yet they still win 2/3 of those years. 2011 was Lebron's fault, if he plays a bit better in the finals Wade would have 2 fmvps.

It's dishonest for you to act like winning 2 rings in 4 years is some failure and its disingenuous to act like Wade was in his prime those years. You may not realize this but Wade's best years were not during the big 3 era, only 2011 was a prime year.

Yeah and if the refs don

[R.I.P.]

maybe wade should have stepped up in the 4th quarters?
or should have shown his superior defense against terry and barea?

:lol :lol

[BasedTom]

damn lots of butthurt bran stans and mavs fans unwilling to accept the truth

[StephHamann]

maybe wade should have stepped up in the 4th quarters?
or should have shown his superior defense against terry and barea?

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevin-garnett-reaction.gif

[bizil]

One interesting fact about D Wade is this, he hasn't reached 20,000 points YET!! He's at 18,812. He came in the L in 2003. Bron ALREADY has close to 25,000 points. Melo has nearly 21,000 points. So that right there is a testament to Wade's durability problems.

A healthy Wade would EASILY have over 20,000 points as of now. His career scoring average is a very impressive 24.1 PPG. It's just that his career scoring numbers are MUCH LOWER than they should be..

[And1AllDay]

One interesting fact about D Wade is this, he hasn't reached 20,000 points YET!! He's at 18,812. He came in the L in 2003. Bron ALREADY has close to 25,000 points. Melo has nearly 21,000 points. So that right there is a testament to Wade's durability problems.

A healthy Wade would EASILY have over 20,000 points as of now. His career scoring average is a very impressive 24.1 PPG. It's just that his career scoring numbers are MUCH LOWER than they should be..

Yep, Wade has had to deal with a couple of them, but he is still hanging in there. I expect him to crack 20,000 after the next season.

#25 is Vince Carter with 23,574
I think Wade has a shot to crack the top 25 of all-time.

Don't forget Dirk is #7 all time. Still though, I have to go w/ Dwyane Wade. Dude was brilliant in the 2006 Finals and his 2009 peak season was insane.

[kenny817]

Yep, Wade has had to deal with a couple of them, but he is still hanging in there. I expect him to crack 20,000 after the next season.

#25 is Vince Carter with 23,574
I think Wade has a shot to crack the top 25 of all-time.

Don't forget Dirk is #7 all time. Still though, I have to go w/ Dwyane Wade. Dude was brilliant in the 2006 Finals and his 2009 peak season was insane.

Refs were "brilliant". I was there...complete horseshit

[kenny817]

Oh and I almost forgot, Dirk lost as the #1 seed to the #8 seed Warriors.

Wade > Dirk

So did Tim Duncan in 2011

[WayOfWade]

Let's see, correct me if I'm wrong on any of these:
Scoring: Even
Rebounding: Dirk
Passing: Wade
Steals: Wade
Blocks: Wade
Titles: Wade
FMVP: Even
MVPs: Dirk
Efficiency: even, if you ask me
Longevity: Dirk
Peak: Even
Clutch: Dirk
Competition: Dirk, western conference is always tougher

Better all-time: Probably Dirk, but I'll say Wade only because I'm biast

[ShawkFactory]

At their absolute peak I'd say Wade was the better player but Dirk has always been more consistent.

And clutch. Can't go against Mr. Dagger himself.

[masonanddixon]

I love how 'peak' on here equates to 'black guy is more athletic thus had a better peak.'

Dirk's 2011 playoffs is unmatched by anyone not named Jordan

[ShawkFactory]

I love how 'peak' on here equates to 'black guy is more athletic thus had a better peak.'

Dirk's 2011 playoffs is unmatched by anyone not named Jordan
:kobe:

Dirk's 2011 playoffs were certainly awesome...but it's starting to get overrated really quickly around here.

[masonanddixon]

:kobe:

Dirk's 2011 playoffs were certainly awesome...but it's starting to get overrated really quickly around here.

Considering personnel, circumstances, and clutch play, it's arguably the GOAT postseason of all time.

[ShawkFactory]

Considering personnel, circumstances, and clutch play, it's arguably the GOAT postseason of all time.
And if Lebron didn't play ghost then it's just another very good player playing very well in the postseason with nothing to show for it.

I love Dirk, and he was absolutely awesome.

But unlike many other superstars who are outgunned in the playoffs, Dirk had an excellent coach and players who actually stepped up. Jason Terry was cold-blooded as hell. Marion played amazing ball. Kidd's leadership was huge. Chandler's defense was silly. Etc.

[masonanddixon]

And if Lebron didn't play ghost then it's just another very good player playing very well in the postseason with nothing to show for it.

I love Dirk, and he was absolutely awesome.

But unlike many other superstars who are outgunned in the playoffs, Dirk had an excellent coach and players who actually stepped up. Jason Terry was cold-blooded as hell. Marion played amazing ball. Kidd's leadership was huge. Chandler's defense was silly. Etc.

lol get the hell out of here. You were probably like 98% of people out there thinking Portland would win in 6 in the first round.

Lebrons 2014-2015 Finals team was on par with Dirks 2011 team, and Dirk did it out West and crushed everyone.

Revisionism at its finest.

[DMV2]

Dirk but not by much really.

Dirk is around #21-25 all-time. Wade around #23-27 all-time.

Should been 4 rings/2 FMVP for Wade and he's easily be top 20.
Without that 2011 ring/FMVP where would Dirk be with just an MVP?

Even in a choke job, LeBron changed history.

[ShawkFactory]

lol get the hell out of here. You were probably like 98% of people out there thinking Portland would win in 6 in the first round.

Lebrons 2014-2015 Finals team was on par with Dirks 2011 team, and Dirk did it out West and crushed everyone.

Revisionism at its finest.
Revisionism? It was 4 years ago :lol

Jason Terry was playing the best ball of his career. Shot 44% from 3 over the entire playoffs and averaged 18 a game. Not to mention he's always been a clutch guy.

Tyson Chandler, while lacking on offense, was widely regarded as one of the best defensive centers in the game.

And that doesn't even remotely considered a HOF player and leader like Kidd and the consummate pro in Shawn Marion.

It was certainly one of the better carry jobs in recent memory (a lot of that having to do with circumstance and not 2011 Dirk being the best player since peak Jordan), but it was not some miraculous feat. His boys stepped up. ESPECIALLY Terry. Dude was hitting huge shots every game it seemed.

And lol at comparing that to the 2015 finals Cavs. Take all of Lebron's players with similar talents, but instead make the inexperienced kids...seasoned veterans. And the Warriors were a better team than the Heat that year.

[Lebron23]

Dirk but not by much really.

Dirk is around #21-25.

Wade around #23-27


This

They are both in the same level. Although Wade was the better finals performer. If Wade wasn't injury prone, and if he only had a decent team during his athletic peak. He could be rank higher than Dirk.

[305Baller]

Too close to call. My bias is Wade but Dirk was just as much a factor in the league.

[R.I.P.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7ERnSPHtQ

Let the actual basketball players educate you on who is the better player.

Duncan, Kobe, KG, AI, Dirk and LeBron are unanimous. Wade doesn

[305Baller]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7ERnSPHtQ

Let the actual basketball players educate you on who is the better player.

Duncan, Kobe, KG, AI, Dirk and LeBron are unanimous. Wade doesn

[pastis]

:kobe:

Dirk's 2011 playoffs were certainly awesome...but it's starting to get overrated really quickly around here.

maybe. But itsstatiscally proven that even Duncan 2003 had a stronger team around him. Dirks 2011 team is with hakeem the worst ever.

2011 Dirk Nowitzkis playoffs stats 4th quarter:


Dirk: 10 ppg on 51/53/94

The filters are:
5 point differential or less
Last 5 minutes of the game or OT

(Player Impact Estimate) - Shows what % of a game’s (clutch part of the game’s as described above) events did that player impact:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): 51.3%
2. Michael Jordan (96-97): 41.2%
3. Dwyane Wade (05-06): 40.4%
4. Lebron James (06-07): 39.5%
5. Kobe Bryant (07-08): 35.5%
6. Lebron James (11-12): 32.2%
7. Kobe Bryant (00-01): 31.4%
8. Allen Iverson (00-01): 31.0%
9. Tim Duncan (06-07): 30.6%
10. Shaquille O’neal (99-00): 30.2%


Net Rating (in the clutch as defined above) is Offensive Rating – Defensive Rating:

1. Dirk Nowitzki (10-11): +71.8
2. David Robinson (98-99): +62.5
3. Tim Duncan (98-99): +54.3
4. Shaquille O’neal (01-02): +50.3
5. Lebron James (13-14): +49.8
6. Kobe Bryant (01-02): +44.4
7. Scottie Pippen (96-97): +40.5
8. Michael Jordan (96-97): +39.7
9. Tim Duncan (13-14): +39.4
10. Lebron James (06-07): +37.3




that is alien-esque. god-esque.

and of course Terry was solid. Marion. CHanlder (tough he is defense in the 11 run is so overrated. Also statistcally proven). YOu cant win it alone. Looks at Birds teams. DUncan teams. Kobes teams. MJ teams. Russels teams.

Most NBA experts have Dirk in the top 20. Some in the 15-17 range. Wade is (right now) not up there.

[plowking]

Refs were "brilliant". I was there...complete horseshit

Salty biatch.

If Wade got ref help in 2006, so did you in 2011. Chandler was allowed to get away with murder under the ring, while our bigs, which we were short handed on already got called for touch fouls. Bosh literally being in foul trouble all series.

Quit complaining. I remember at the height of the Bron hate, even the biggest haters on here were saying how the Heat got jobbed in game 3 of the 2011 finals. We still ended up winning that game somehow. Rest of the series didn't get much better as Chandler was allowed to manhandle our team.

[plowking]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB7ERnSPHtQ

Let the actual basketball players educate you on who is the better player.

Duncan, Kobe, KG, AI, Dirk and LeBron are unanimous. Wade doesn

[masonanddixon]

Salty biatch.

If Wade got ref help in 2006, so did you in 2011. Chandler was allowed to get away with murder under the ring, while our bigs, which we were short handed on already got called for touch fouls. Bosh literally being in foul trouble all series.

Quit complaining. I remember at the height of the Bron hate, even the biggest haters on here were saying how the Heat got jobbed in game 3 of the 2011 finals. We still ended up winning that game somehow. Rest of the series didn't get much better as Chandler was allowed to manhandle our team.

lol...this is hilarity. You can't actually believe this bullshit you're spewing.

The only call that shocked me, and I mean absolutely shocked me, was Joey Crawford calling that offensive foul on lefraud at the end of Game 5--that was a HUGE call and I never would've ever thought it would've been called.

[ArbitraryWater]

:kobe:

Dirk's 2011 playoffs were certainly awesome...but it's starting to get overrated really quickly around here.

It's been 4 years and was mentioned multiple times in the thread of players being seemingly unstoppable...

you pulling the teammate card is even dumber, since Dirk had a relatively average cast compared to other title teams. Dont do dumb shit.


Dirk but not by much really.

Dirk is around #21-25 all-time. Wade around #23-27 all-time.

Should been 4 rings/2 FMVP for Wade and he's easily be top 20.
Without that 2011 ring/FMVP where would Dirk be with just an MVP?

Even in a choke job, LeBron changed history.

he was around #16 the last few times ISH did their ranking and also top 20 on the RGM voting... 21-25 is some bs tbh

[Dragonyeuw]

Dirk but not by much really.

Dirk is around #21-25 all-time. Wade around #23-27 all-time.

Should been 4 rings/2 FMVP for Wade and he's easily be top 20.
Without that 2011 ring/FMVP where would Dirk be with just an MVP?



The same question can be asked of someone like Barkley. Where would you rank him?

Dirk really seems to be chronically underrated. He's been the rock of the Mavs franchise for 15 years, likely to wind up with 30k career points, brought a unique skillset to his position at that size, has an MVP and a ring/FMVP where he was basically the lone star leading a cast of veteran role players. Why doesn't that kind of career warrant top 20 status? Not to mention, at 25/10 on 46/37/89 he's IMO one of the top 10 playoff performers ever.

[HighFlyer23]

Dirk

[Derka]

Dirk.

[Rose'sACL]

Dirk has played with better team/coach for most of his career.
Put wade on mavs from 2003 till 2011 and tell me that he would not have done better than dirk.

[HiphopRelated]

Wade

[StephHamann]

Dirk has played with better team/coach for most of his career.
Put wade on mavs from 2003 till 2011 and tell me that he would not have done better than dirk.

:lol

[HiphopRelated]

maybe wade should have stepped up in the 4th quarters?
or should have shown his superior defense against terry and barea?
Wade wasn't the one that was getting raped by Barea on one end and couldn't post him up on the other

[Brunch@Five]

Dirk was a better franchise player, a more efficient and reliably offensive foundation, an all-time great playoff performer and incredibly clutch. He battled it out against some of the all-time greats (Duncan, Nash, KG, Bron, Kobe) and came out on top against all of them at least once.

Wade? Lost against Boston, Atlanta, Chicago in the 1st round when he was the #1 leader on his team after Shaq was done. Missed the playoffs in his best season. It's not all his fault, he certainly didn't have the greatest team. But he just lacks the consistency and perseverance that Dirk, who is a true franchise player, has.

[goldcrow]

Dirk for sure. Wade had a better peak but he's hobbled up now while Dirk still going up the career-scoring ladder at age 37.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk, but really only because of health. A healthy Wade would have been a better player and had a better career.

Now, staying healthy and being durable/consistent is absolutely part of being a good basketball player, but I think it's important to mention the health part.

[GIF REACTION]

It's a tie, but Wade is the better player.

[Wade's Rings]

I'm fine with people saying Dirk but to say it's not close :facepalm

[ArbitraryWater]

Dirk has played with better team/coach for most of his career.
Put wade on mavs from 2003 till 2011 and tell me that he would not have done better than dirk.

Is this like one of those opposite jokes where you really mean that Wade's had far better teams in his career?

And no, it is NOT close... people saying its close :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

Is this like one of those opposite jokes where you really mean that Wade's had far better teams in his career?

And no, it is NOT close... people saying its close :facepalm

What are you referencing when you say it's "not close" though?

Is it just the longevity and durability of Dirk or is it the level of play between the two when both players were healthy throughout their careers?

[HiphopRelated]

Is this like one of those opposite jokes where you really mean that Wade's had far better teams in his career?

And no, it is NOT close... people saying its close :facepalm
Whenever Wade has been on teams expected to do anything he's been in the Conference Finals or Finals

[DMAVS41]

Whenever Wade has been on teams expected to do anything he's been in the Conference Finals or Finals

True, but in a couple of those recently he just wasn't very good.

And playing in the East really bolsters that part of the resume imo.

[Fire Colangelo]

Dirk has a decade of elite seasons whereas Wade only has 5....

Dirk is the better player all time.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I'm fine with people saying Dirk but to say it's not close :facepalm

the same people that are saying its Dirk and not close are the same people you'll see in Wade vs Kobe threads arguing for Wade > Kobe because they believe Wade's best regular season was better than Kobe's best regular season and longevity never gets brought up.. the agenda is real..

this is really amusing..

[DMAVS41]

the same people that are saying its Dirk and not close are the same people you'll see in Wade vs Kobe threads arguing for Wade > Kobe because they believe Wade's best regular season was better than Kobe's best regular season and longevity never gets brought up.. the agenda is real..

this is really amusing..

Are you referencing me?

[West-Side]

There's no way I rank Wade above Dirk on my all-time list.
Dirk is somewhere between 17-22 on my list; Wade somewhere 30-40.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Are you referencing me?

I haven't seen your post in this thread, I see AW in here talking about it not being close, yet at the same time in Wade vs Kobe discussions that 09 regular season holds 200x more weight to him.. and to a lot of people in that discussion honestly do the same thing..

its just funny that when we are comparing Wade to somebody who ISH doesn't hate then his entire body of work gets looked instead of just focusing on one season and trying to argue that being better one year makes up for not being better the other 6-10..

I ultimately take Dirk in this discussion

I feel like at their best they had similar impact.. but Dirk was able to play at his best for 5+ consecutive years, while Wade was not.. therefore Dirk>Wade

[Wade's Rings]

the same people that are saying its Dirk and not close are the same people you'll see in Wade vs Kobe threads arguing for Wade > Kobe because they believe Wade's best regular season was better than Kobe's best regular season and longevity never gets brought up.. the agenda is real..

this is really amusing..

The Contradictions :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

The Contradictions :oldlol:

I can only speak for myself. And I don't see a contradiction here.

I think Wade was better than Kobe when healthy for a period of time, but I also think Kobe clearly deserves to be ranked higher on all time lists because of his longevity/durability.

It's the same thing with Wade and Dirk to an extent. I think Wade was perhaps slightly better than Dirk when both were healthy, but because of Dirk's longevity/durability....he should be known as the better player for these discussions.

So I'm just not seeing this contradiction. It seems like it's perfectly consistent.

[Wade's Rings]

I can only speak for myself. And I don't see a contradiction here.

I think Wade was better than Kobe when healthy for a period of time, but I also think Kobe clearly deserves to be ranked higher on all time lists because of his longevity/durability.

It's the same thing with Wade and Dirk to an extent. I think Wade was perhaps slightly better than Dirk when both were healthy, but because of Dirk's longevity/durability....he should be known as the better player for these discussions.

So I'm just not seeing this contradiction. It seems like it's perfectly consistent.

From what I've seen you're a Consistent Poster. I was laughing at the Bron Stans that make these contradictions.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I can only speak for myself. And I don't see a contradiction here.

I think Wade was better than Kobe when healthy for a period of time, but I also think Kobe clearly deserves to be ranked higher on all time lists because of his longevity/durability.

It's the same thing with Wade and Dirk to an extent. I think Wade was perhaps slightly better than Dirk when both were healthy, but because of Dirk's longevity/durability....he should be known as the better player for these discussions.

So I'm just not seeing this contradiction. It seems like it's perfectly consistent.

you don't see the contradiction when in this thread AW says "Dirk > Wade and its not even close" and then will turn around and use Wade's 09 regular season as a reason why Wade is close to Kobe..

[DMAVS41]

you don't see the contradiction when in this thread AW says "Dirk > Wade and its not even close" and then will turn around and use Wade's 09 regular season as a reason why Wade is close to Kobe..

I can only speak for myself. And I don't see a contradiction here.

First line in the post you quoted.

[plowking]

Dirk was a better franchise player, a more efficient and reliably offensive foundation, an all-time great playoff performer and incredibly clutch. He battled it out against some of the all-time greats (Duncan, Nash, KG, Bron, Kobe) and came out on top against all of them at least once.

Wade? Lost against Boston, Atlanta, Chicago in the 1st round when he was the #1 leader on his team after Shaq was done. Missed the playoffs in his best season. It's not all his fault, he certainly didn't have the greatest team. But he just lacks the consistency and perseverance that Dirk, who is a true franchise player, has.

When did this happen? Wade went to the playoffs every single year apart from this last one, and the season he missed half the games.

Dirk? Lost to GSW as the number 1 seed and as an MVP. Continuous failures as one of the top seeds. And Wade is the better finals and playoffs performer.

Wade is more efficient too, which is crazy considering he is a guard. Has a bigger defensive impact too. Crazy since Dirk is a 7 footer.

[mehyaM24]

Wade is more efficient too, which is crazy considering he is a guard. Has a bigger defensive impact too. Crazy since Dirk is a 7 footer.

not quite.

not only does dirk have better raw stats in the playoffs, he also has seasons shooting 40% from 3PT and ~90% from the line. dirk also has a better career TS% in the regular season and playoffs. :confusedshrug:

[tpols]

Dirk has played with better team/coach for most of his career.
Put wade on mavs from 2003 till 2011 and tell me that he would not have done better than dirk.

This is.. interesting. Wade wouldn't have won anything playing with nash one year at the very beginning of his career and then Josh Howard and Jason terry being his best sidekicks in a loaded west.

And he sure as hell wouldn't win in 2011.

[TheBigVeto]

Dirk easy. 2nd GOAT PF.
Wade isn't even in top 10 GOAT SGs.
Wade has 1 tainted ring and 2 legit rings as Robin.
Dirk has 1 legit ring as Batman, the toughest ring to get in the last 20 years. Dirk was so awesome, after that championship, David Stern planned his retirement. Which is good for the sport.

[plowking]

not quite.

not only does dirk have better raw stats in the playoffs, he also has seasons shooting 40% from 3PT and ~90% from the line. dirk also has a better career TS% in the regular season and playoffs. :confusedshrug:

Dirk has better playoff stats due to not having to play behind Lebron.

Wade is the one with 3 championships, compared to Dirk's 1. Over the course of their careers, you could say they had equally good amounts of chances to win with comparable teams over the course of that time.

At the end of the day, Wade is a better offensive player, defensive player, and he has more championships. Funny how the championship argument is always valid elsewhere, but whenever we compare Wade with anyone it all goes out the door.
What is it with Wade that makes people constantly underrate him? Dude gets counted out after his first injury, counted out before the 08 Olympics, counted out of all time great debates... and for what? Dude is clearly top 25 all time.

It isn't just NBA fans that neglect how good this guy is, it is the media as well. Kevin Durant comes in and has achieved a whole lot of nothing outside his MVP and you have that panel with Reggie, Shaq, Webber, etc all talking about how he belongs in the next 10, while someone like Wade is a maybe. Utterly ridiculous. Wade is better than more than half the guys in the original 50.

24/5/6 while having racked up 20,000 points in his career will be where Wade is sitting at the end of this coming season. How many other players are there ever to do that? While winning 3 championships, and being the best player in 2 or 3 of his finals runs?

This dude is constantly overlooked, and I'm not even entirely sure why. He is the definition of clutch, and out of both Kobe and Lebron, and even Durant, he is the one that has proven most he can take on tough defenses and still torch them. This has been a constant throughout the start of his career.

I just don't get it.

[plowking]

This is.. interesting. Wade wouldn't have won anything playing with nash one year at the very beginning of his career and then Josh Howard and Jason terry being his best sidekicks in a loaded west.

And he sure as hell wouldn't win in 2011.

Clearly the team would be built differently if they had Wade and not Dirk.

And Wade wins in 2011 if Bron plays the same way he did against him. Especially since Wade was better than Dirk in the 2011 finals.

[Wade's Rings]

Dirk has better playoff stats due to not having to play behind Lebron.

Wade is the one with 3 championships, compared to Dirk's 1. Over the course of their careers, you could say they had equally good amounts of chances to win with comparable teams over the course of that time.

At the end of the day, Wade is a better offensive player, defensive player, and he has more championships. Funny how the championship argument is always valid elsewhere, but whenever we compare Wade with anyone it all goes out the door.
What is it with Wade that makes people constantly underrate him? Dude gets counted out after his first injury, counted out before the 08 Olympics, counted out of all time great debates... and for what? Dude is clearly top 25 all time.

It isn't just NBA fans that neglect how good this guy is, it is the media as well. Kevin Durant comes in and has achieved a whole lot of nothing outside his MVP and you have that panel with Reggie, Shaq, Webber, etc all talking about how he belongs in the next 10, while someone like Wade is a maybe. Utterly ridiculous. Wade is better than more than half the guys in the original 50.

24/5/6 while having racked up 20,000 points in his career will be where Wade is sitting at the end of this coming season. How many other players are there ever to do that? While winning 3 championships, and being the best player in 2 or 3 of his finals runs?

This dude is constantly overlooked, and I'm not even entirely sure why. He is the definition of clutch, and out of both Kobe and Lebron, and even Durant, he is the one that has proven most he can take on tough defenses and still torch them. This has been a constant throughout the start of his career.

I just don't get it.


Clearly the team would be built differently if they had Wade and not Dirk.

And Wade wins in 2011 if Bron plays the same way he did against him. Especially since Wade was better than Dirk in the 2011 finals.

plowking slaying :bowdown:

[mehyaM24]

Dirk has better playoff stats due to not having to play behind Lebron.

Wade is the one with 3 championships, compared to Dirk's 1. Over the course of their careers, you could say they had equally good amounts of chances to win with comparable teams over the course of that time.

you contribute wade having less stats due to playing with lebron YET in the same breath, say he has 3 titles to dirks' 1.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

lebron & dirk playing together would have won more than 3 - no doubt.


At the end of the day, Wade is a better offensive player

no he's not. dirk's higher rapm seasons in offense along with his efficiency trump wade's quite easily.

i get that you're a fan of his, but can we be objective here? wade's clearly not as great as you think, evident by his peers ranking of him.

[SamuraiSWISH]

Wade's 2009, 2010, and 2011 were better seasons than Dirk's 2007 MVP season. Yes, he's the greater player all-time. But for some reason it's more likely Dirk will be ranked higher. Unfortunately.

[Wade's Rings]

This is.. interesting. Wade wouldn't have won anything playing with nash one year at the very beginning of his career and then Josh Howard and Jason terry being his best sidekicks in a loaded west.

And he sure as hell wouldn't win in 2011.

What would Kobe have done with those squads?

[tpols]

Clearly the team would be built differently if they had Wade and not Dirk.

And Wade wins in 2011 if Bron plays the same way he did against him. Especially since Wade was better than Dirk in the 2011 finals.

that is true on the whole built around differently..

But 2011? Nah.. Wade was able to save himself for the finals playing out east. Every series dallas won in 2011 they won as underdogs.. they weren't getting Philly in the first round and they sure as fk weren't beating okc with how wade played in his conference finals as compared to what dirk did.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk has better playoff stats due to not having to play behind Lebron.

Wade is the one with 3 championships, compared to Dirk's 1. Over the course of their careers, you could say they had equally good amounts of chances to win with comparable teams over the course of that time.

At the end of the day, Wade is a better offensive player, defensive player, and he has more championships. Funny how the championship argument is always valid elsewhere, but whenever we compare Wade with anyone it all goes out the door.
What is it with Wade that makes people constantly underrate him? Dude gets counted out after his first injury, counted out before the 08 Olympics, counted out of all time great debates... and for what? Dude is clearly top 25 all time.

It isn't just NBA fans that neglect how good this guy is, it is the media as well. Kevin Durant comes in and has achieved a whole lot of nothing outside his MVP and you have that panel with Reggie, Shaq, Webber, etc all talking about how he belongs in the next 10, while someone like Wade is a maybe. Utterly ridiculous. Wade is better than more than half the guys in the original 50.

24/5/6 while having racked up 20,000 points in his career will be where Wade is sitting at the end of this coming season. How many other players are there ever to do that? While winning 3 championships, and being the best player in 2 or 3 of his finals runs?

This dude is constantly overlooked, and I'm not even entirely sure why. He is the definition of clutch, and out of both Kobe and Lebron, and even Durant, he is the one that has proven most he can take on tough defenses and still torch them. This has been a constant throughout the start of his career.

I just don't get it.


I agree that Wade gets under-rated and you should read my posts in this thread to get an idea on what I think.

However, the bold above is absurd.

Dirk's legit contending teams were the 03 Mavs, 06 Mavs, and 11 Mavs. Dirk got hurt in the WCF in 03...very similar to Wade's 05 injury.

So you are down to 2 chances to win a title for Wade if he played with similar help to Dirk. So you are looking at, at best, 2 finals appearances and 2 rings for Wade. And that truly is "at best" because Wade doesn't get a Lebron or Shaq....he'd be getting the likes of the Jason Terry's and Josh Howard's and Dampier's and Stackhouse's and Harris' of the league. He's not getting first team all nba players next to him like he had for his 6 contending teams.

So not only has Wade had more contending teams, but Wade has also had more help for the majority of those....especially the 11 through 14 Heat. Lebron alone trumps any supporting cast Dirk has ever had.

[Wade's Rings]

that is true on the whole built around differently..

But 2011? Nah.. Wade was able to save himself for the finals playing out east. Every series dallas won in 2011 they won as underdogs.. they weren't getting Philly in the first round and they sure as fk weren't beating okc with how wade played in his conference finals as compared to what dirk did.

Wade played the 56 Win Celtics who were the #2 Ranked Defense. Then faced the 62 Win Bulls who were the #1 Ranked Defense. The 76ers were the #10 Defense but yeah he "saved himself" :roll:

Also, Wade played poorly Offensively vs the #1 Ranked Defense in the Bulls. You think he's playing that bad against the #13 Ranked OKC? :oldlol:

[tpols]

What would Kobe have done with those squads?


much better than wade considering he was much more healthy and better to start.

Say rookie wade with nash vs prime 03 or 04 kobe with nash ?

Kobe was also much healthier than wade was in the 06 to 11 period (which would've led to far more chances to win).. and has always shown dedication to keep in top 1% shape and skill level to prove himself. Wade was arguably the greater athlete and more talented physical specimen but he didn't have the same type of determination, or work ethic kobe had.. if he did, he likely would've been better.

[DMAVS41]

Clearly the team would be built differently if they had Wade and not Dirk.

And Wade wins in 2011 if Bron plays the same way he did against him. Especially since Wade was better than Dirk in the 2011 finals.

Meh....you put Dirk and Lebron on the same team in 11 and they win it all unless the rest of the team is ISH members...

Because Dirk actually complements Lebron's game...it's not a case of redundant ball dominant styles of players who lack perimeter shooting.

I don't say that really as a knock on Wade, but just to illustrate that Lebron/Wade were redundant players. Where their true impact only comes with the ball in their hands.

Dirk, on the other hand, can do so much off the ball that he'd be perfect paired next to a Wade or Lebron.

So I don't see how Wade is winning it all in 11 if he had a similar team to the 11 Mavs around him and had to face Lebron/Dirk/Bosh or Bosh type player.

[tpols]

Wade played the 56 Win Celtics who were the #2 Ranked Defense. Then faced the 62 Win Bulls who were the #1 Ranked Defense. The 76ers were the #10 Defense but yeah he "saved himself" :roll:

Also, Wade played poorly Offensively vs the #1 Ranked Defense in the Bulls. You think he's playing that bad against the #13 Ranked OKC? :oldlol:

I don't believe wade played bad against the bulls just because of their defense.. bosh and bron were on a roll and he took a backseat. He saved up energy for the finals there

Any way you slice it, the mavs were underdogs in every series. the heat.. werent. They were overwhelmingly stacked and I do have my doubts wade would be able to keep up his finals level performance for all 4 rounds like what was necessary for dirk.

[Wade's Rings]

I don't believe wade played bad against the bulls just because of their defense.. bosh and bron were on a roll and he took a backseat. He saved up energy for the finals there

Any way you slice it, the mavs were underdogs in every series. the heat.. werent. They were overwhelmingly stacked and I do have my doubts wade would be able to keep up his finals level performance for all 4 rounds like what was necessary for dirk.

I never expected them to lose to the Blazers. I do agree that they were underdogs in the other 3 Series.

[DMAVS41]

I don't believe wade played bad against the bulls just because of their defense.. bosh and bron were on a roll and he took a backseat. He saved up energy for the finals there

Any way you slice it, the mavs were underdogs in every series. the heat.. werent. They were overwhelmingly stacked and I do have my doubts wade would be able to keep up his finals level performance for all 4 rounds like what was necessary for dirk.

The Mavs weren't dogs in every series. They were favored against the Thunder and I think they were actually slightly favored against the Blazers.

But you make good points.

The point that is missing is this:

You don't just get to remove Dirk from the league in 11. In fact, you'd have to switch Wade and Dirk to make it fair. And Dirk/Lebron/Bosh are winning the title...it's just a much better team than with Wade. Doesn't mean Wade is worse than Dirk even in 11...just means the fit of Dirk/Lebron is just simply better.

A Wade led Mavs type team in 11 is at best 50/50 to make the finals and then they'd likely get stomped by Lebron/Dirk in the finals.

[Wade's Rings]

Meh....you put Dirk and Lebron on the same team in 11 and they win it all unless the rest of the team is ISH members...

Because Dirk actually complements Lebron's game...it's not a case of redundant ball dominant styles of players who lack perimeter shooting.

I don't say that really as a knock on Wade, but just to illustrate that Lebron/Wade were redundant players. Where their true impact only comes with the ball in their hands.

Dirk, on the other hand, can do so much off the ball that he'd be perfect paired next to a Wade or Lebron.

So I don't see how Wade is winning it all in 11 if he had a similar team to the 11 Mavs around him and had to face Lebron/Dirk/Bosh or Bosh type player.

The team would have to be built to better suit Wade. If Bron chokes playing the Way he did than Wade wins that series. Also, Dirk doesn't bring Wade's Defense.

[plowking]

you contribute wade having less stats due to playing with lebron YET in the same breath, say he has 3 titles to dirks' 1.

you cant have your cake and eat it too.

Dirk had great teams too, he just didn't win as much.


lebron & dirk playing together would have won more than 3 - no doubt.

A quote like this is absolutely ridiculous. You totally belittle everything that players work for with a quote like that. No doubt? They might not win any. People act like an NBA championship is a lock given the right players. So much luck, circumstance, and just playing right at the right time comes into it.
Have the Lakers play the Pistons again a decade and a bit back, and tell me how many times you would have told me the Lakers would "no doubt" beat the Pistons? I'm guessing a lot. Does not work that way.


no he's not. dirk's higher rapm seasons in offense along with his efficiency trump wade's quite easily.

Scores more points, at a better FG%, averages more assists, pulls down more offensive boards, is a better slasher, is better at getting to the rim, is better at drawing in defenses on drive and kicks, better finisher, just as clutch, more dynamic, etc. He has advantages over Dirk that he shouldn't given the size differences.


i get that you're a fan of his, but can we be objective here? wade's clearly not as great as you think, evident by his peers ranking of him.

Go ahead and explain why? What has he done to prove he isn't? He has done a lot of things to prove he is. "Playing with Lebron and Shaq so we have to take into account his rings are tainted a little"... No one does it for Kobe. Everyone rates him top 10 at the worst.

Find me a player with 24/5/6 as their averages and with at least 20,000 points. Because that is Wade after this season. Show me the list, and you will see the company he is in.

For some reason his peers are rating Reggie nearly as good as Wade. I guess his peers are always right, huh? Shaq was on the show harping on about "are we gonna put Wade over Payton and Penny"... This idiot asked a dumb question and they sat there and mulled it over acting politically correct and said Wade isn't unanimous. Funny it came from Shaq since he is always the one talking about rings and how his 4 is better than blah blah blah.

[DMAVS41]

The team would have to be built to better suit Wade. If Bron chokes playing the Way he did than Wade wins that series. Also, Dirk doesn't bring Wade's Defense.

I know. I'm not saying it would be the same team. It would be a similar team to the 11 Mavs.

The 11 Mavs are one of the least talented teams to ever make the finals. While the 11 Heat were one of the most talented teams to ever make the finals.

Yea, anything is possible, but Lebron is far less likely to choke if he can play Lebron ball and not have a redundant player next to him.

Also, Wade doesn't just get a free pass to the finals. What Dirk did against the Lakers and Thunder might not be replicated by Wade.

I'd say a Wade led team in the West similar to the 11 Mavs would have something around a 25% chance to win the title. Possible, but not probable.

And remember...03, 06, and 11 were the only 3 years Dirk had a legit chance at the title.

[mehyaM24]

plowking - you don't think lebron & dirk would be a BETTER fit?

objectively speaking, dirk hasn't had to battle injuries like wade has - so from 2011-2014, i absolutely think they would win more than 2. seeing as how their games are a perfect mesh/match, i'm not seeing how its "fragile" as you claim.

btw, i'm not belittling wade. i think there were seasons he's had better than dirk, and even lebron (2005) - his greatness just doesn't resonate imo. i don't think anybody on that nba tv panel had agendas. they were just being real about it.

[plowking]

plowking- you don't think lebron & dirk would be a BETTER fit?

objectively speaking, dirk hasn't had to battle injuries like wade has...so from 2011-2014 i absolutely think they would win more than 2. seeing as how their games are a perfect mesh, i'm not seeing how its as fragile as you make it seem.

and btw, i'm not belittling wade. i think there were seasons he had better than dirk, and even lebron (2005) - his greatness just doesn't resonate imo. i don't think anybody on that nba tv panel had agendas. they were just being real about it.

Wasn't Kevin Love supposed to be a perfect fit for Bron? Someone who can rebound and spread the floor for him? How did that go?

People need to stop pretending like Wade and Bron didn't mesh or didn't work. They were a great fit. How did they not mesh well together? They were one of the best fits ever in the NBA. They ran the best fast break show since the Lakers in the 80's. They were a terror on the wings defensively. They made 4 finals together destroying teams together. They were a near perfect fit.

This, "their games are too similar so they didn't work" thing needs to stop. Were we watching the same thing? They played the passing lanes, and were both great on ball defenders the first 2 and a half years together. The only thing in the first year is they tried to play a slower game, and one where they took turns going one on one like they had previously. Once the coach realized how much of a dumbass he was, we started playing great, open, free flowing basketball.

[tpols]

Wasn't Kevin Love supposed to be a perfect fit for Bron? Someone who can rebound and spread the floor for him? How did that go?

People need to stop pretending like Wade and Bron didn't mesh or didn't work. They were a great fit. How did they not mesh well together? They were one of the best fits ever in the NBA. They ran the best fast break show since the Lakers in the 80's. They were a terror on the wings defensively. They made 4 finals together destroying teams together. They were a near perfect fit.

This, "their games are too similar so they didn't work" thing needs to stop. Were we watching the same thing? They played the passing lanes, and were both great on ball defenders the first 2 and a half years together. The only thing in the first year is they tried to play a slower game, and one where they took turns going one on one like they had previously. Once the coach realized how much of a dumbass he was, we started playing great, open, free flowing basketball.


Lol @ comparing Kevin Love to dirk...

[plowking]

btw, i'm not belittling wade. i think there were seasons he's had better than dirk, and even lebron (2005) - his greatness just doesn't resonate imo. i don't think anybody on that nba tv panel had agendas. they were just being real about it.

It doesn't resonate because he isn't the media darling like Bron or Kobe, or achieved over the top like Timmy.

No one outside of those 3 will really be remembered from this era in a high and mighty stature. Dirk and Wade will get their occasional props, as will Melo due to media, while KD will start making a name for himself soon enough and take on the next era.

[mehyaM24]

can't speak for others, but i never thought kevin love and lebron were a perfect fit. i never said wade & lebron were a bad fit either - i just think someone who's accustomed to taking nothing BUT jumpers and is elite off of the ball (dirk) would have helped win lebron a handful of rings.

more-so than a pairing with a broken down wade.

[plowking]

Lol @ comparing Kevin Love to dirk...

They are comparable. Play very similar games, but Dirk is just better.

And you're exactly the type of person I'm talking about. Complains about how Bron makes everyone stand around, then has a problem when making an unflattering comparison for their agendas.

[mehyaM24]

It doesn't resonate because he isn't the media darling like Bron or Kobe, or achieved over the top like Timmy.

No one outside of those 3 will really be remembered from this era in a high and mighty stature. Dirk and Wade will get their occasional props, as will Melo due to media, while KD will start making a name for himself soon enough and take on the next era.

wade's just not as good as you claim dude.

dirk made the "next 10" with those nba tv panelists, btw

[tpols]

They are comparable. Play very similar games, but Dirk is just better.

And you're exactly the type of person I'm talking about. Complains about how Bron makes everyone stand around, then has a problem when making an unflattering comparison for their agendas.

theyre... not. Dirk is on a whole other level closing, passing/moving without the ball to free up space for teammates.. leading an elite offense with all time great clutch ability.

You do realize in 2014, peak Kevin Love led one of the worst clutch teams in the league right?

While 2011 dirk led the best clutch team all time in the playoffs ?

He also plays significantly better defense, is much taller and longer.

[Wade's Rings]

The 11 Mavs are one of the least talented teams to ever make the finals. While the 11 Heat were one of the most talented teams to ever make the finals.

Talent Wise yes. However they were a deep squad filled with Good Role Players.


Yea, anything is possible, but Lebron is far less likely to choke if he can play Lebron ball and not have a redundant player next to him.

Lebron didn't do anything with the ball in his hands though. In Game 2 after the Heat go up by 15, Lebron does absolutely nothing with the ball in his hands. In Game 4 He just played garbage and shook. In Game 5 after the Heat go up 4 he holds the Ball for the next 4 Possessions and misses 2 jumpshots and has 2 turnovers. Even when he had the ball he didn't do anything in that series. Also, his Defense was horrid not just his offense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ This is another factor to consider.


Also, Wade doesn't just get a free pass to the finals. What Dirk did against the Lakers and Thunder might not be replicated by Wade.

Dirk was incredible those series but I believe Wade gets the job done, but his Efficiency would be worse than Dirks.

[DMAVS41]

Talent Wise yes. However they were a deep squad filled with Good Role Players.



Lebron didn't do anything with the ball in his hands though. In Game 2 after the Heat go up by 15, Lebron does absolutely nothing with the ball in his hands. In Game 4 He just played garbage and shook. In Game 5 after the Heat go up 4 he holds the Ball for the next 4 Possessions and misses 2 jumpshots and has 2 turnovers. Even when he had the ball he didn't do anything in that series. Also, his Defense was horrid not just his offense: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eL3Kz3DD1uQ This is another factor to consider.



Dirk was incredible those series but I believe Wade gets the job done, but his Efficiency would be worse than Dirks.


Yea, they were a deep squad, but winning the West with that 11 Mavs team or a similar team is a 50/50 type situation at best. You have to win 3 series in which you really aren't any better than the opponent....and that is just to get to the finals.

Lebron was awful in the 11 finals. I just think he'd have been much better playing with a guy like Dirk....for example, the Mavs could have never defended the Heat like we did with Dirk instead of Wade. Just wouldn't work. Dirk would either abuse them in the post if not doubled and get to the ft line and score at a crazy efficient clip...or he'd stretch the floor and bomb 3's when the defense collapses....or run a pick and pop with Lebron with Bosh spotting up. That would literally be unstoppable.

You put Dirk and Lebron in a pick and pop or Bosh and Lebron...with a big spotting up and shooters? You can't stop that.

Yes...the defense would take a hit, but Dirk was under-rated defensively most of his career and back in 11...and the defensive rebounding of Lebron/Dirk/Bosh would be dominant.

I just don't see how Wade and a bunch of role players is winning the title going through the West and then having to face Lebron/Dirk/Bosh in the finals.

Just far less likely than the Heat winning it.

And to the bigger point. Dirk has simply had less contending teams than Wade. Wade has had 6 legit chances to win titles. 05, 06, 11-14. Dirk has had 3 legit chances. And Wade's help from 11 through 14 was easily better than Dirk's help ever was.

[Brunch@Five]

How is DWade more efficient on offense than Dirk :confusedshrug:
Peak and career TS%, TOV% both go to Dirk, a big reason why he was such an efficient go-to guy. One of the most efficient scorers ever.

Even if Wade and Dirk are considered equals as players, or giving Wade the advantage, Wade will not and should not be ranked higher because he never had the same magnitude as a franchise player that Dirk has.

[disel]

Are you kiddin me? it is Dirk and it aint even close

[Mass Debator]

Wade (12 years) vs Dirk (17 years)

3x vs 1x champion
0x vs 1x MVP
1x vs 1x FMVP
1x vs 0x leader in major category (Wade scoring)
11x vs 13x all-star
8x vs 12x all-nba
3x vs 0x all-defensive

Regular season totals + (playoffs)

781 (152) vs 1265 (140) games played
18812 (3481) vs 28119 (3561) points
3824 (798) vs 10051 (1422) rebounds
4600 (768) vs 3282 (352) assists

It's close; if it's not and you're leaning towards Dirk, it will be if Wade ends up playing 3-4 more years. My opinion is that Wade is already ahead by a tiny bit since he was a major factor in 3 championships and was one of the better defenders at this position up until he got into his 30s. Dirk is the best shooter over 7ft and probably top 5 ever. Wade is the best blocker at 6'4". Wade has super awesome stats if you look at his per 100 possessions numbers. Both great. Both would be even greater if they played together. Just damn great players that we all were lucky to witness.

[SamuraiSWISH]

but Dirk was under-rated defensively most of his career and back in 11
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jlamb47]

Dwade > Dirk On all time list

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Why are you laughing. It's really just a basketball fact that Dirk's defense was demonstrably better than his rep.

You put Dirk next to Lebron and a center that can protect the rim and your defense will be actually just good.