better player all-time: Lebron or Moses

[kennethgriffin]

Moses:

1 NBA title
1 Finals MVP
3 season MVP's
14 time all-star
8 time all nba

Career ABA / NBA statistics:
Points 29,580
Rebounds 17,834
Assists 1,936


Lebron:

1.5 NBA titles
1.5 Finals MVPs
4 season MVP's
11 time all-star
10 time all nba

Career NBA statistics:
Points 24,857
Rebounds 6,480
Assists 6,275

[JohnFreeman]

LeBron is a top 10 player all time.

On to the next one.

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron.

Moses is somewhere around 10-13.

[navy]

I personally got Moses over Kobe.

[Prometheus]

Moses is one of the most underrated and not-talked-about-enough players in NBA history. LeBron is better though.

[LAZERUSS]

Moses is one of the most underrated and not-talked-about-enough players in NBA history. LeBron is better though.

:applause: :applause: :applause:

:cheers:

[Prometheus]

I personally got Moses over Kobe.

Kobe higher on GOAT list, Moses actually better for your team.

[kennethgriffin]

LeBron is a top 10 player all time.

On to the next one.

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings

[LAZERUSS]

BTW...

Moses was "the Kareem Killer."

[JohnFreeman]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings
Come back when you are willing to try.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings

:facepalm

[LAZERUSS]

Lebron:

1.5 NBA titles
1.5 Finals MVPs

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

LeBron.

[SugarHill]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings

Explain how Kobe has 5 rings but Duncan has 4.5 or LeBron has 1.5

[Prometheus]

Explain how Kobe has 5 rings but Duncan has 4.5 or LeBron has 1.5

He's obviously referring to lockout seasons.

[kennethgriffin]

Explain how Kobe has 5 rings but Duncan has 4.5 or LeBron has 1.5


lockouts?

those seasons shouldn't even have took place... theyre lucky to get half a ring

[LAZERUSS]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings

Using your formula...

Wilt with 4.5 rings. He nearly won FIVE more rings...so I will give 2.5 rings.

[aj1987]

Since LeBron is a top 7 player, the better comparison would be between Kobe and Moses. Both are top 12-15 all time.


Using your formula...

Wilt with 4.5 rings. He nearly won FIVE more rings...so I will give 2.5 rings.
Did you drop out of kindergarten?

Wilt = 0 rings, TBH. Weak ass era + epic chokes from Chokerlain.

[kennethgriffin]

That's a little more accurate. Kobe was carried to three of his rings. Duncan deserves credit for all five of his.

so kobes 29/7/6 playoff run in 2001 is worthless

but duncans 3rd option 15ppg playoff run in 2014 is full credit?

lol


thats delusional

atleast lockout asterisks are reality and not "opinion"

there actually are asterisks in the nba record books dictating a shortened season for 1999 and 2012

[LAZERUSS]

Since LeBron is a top 7 player, the better comparison would be between Kobe and Moses. Both are top 12-15 all time.


Did you drop out of kindergarten?

Wilt = 0 rings, TBH. Weak ass era + epic chokes from Chokerlain.

Wilt >>>>>>>>>> Russell...

the same Russell with 11 rings.

Wilt = GOAT.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

so kobes 29/7/6 playoff run in 2001 is worthless

but duncans 3rd option 15ppg playoff run in 2014 is full credit?

lol


thats delusional

atleast lockout asterisks are reality and not "opinion"

there actually are asterisks in the nba record books dictating a shortened season for 1999 and 2012

Take Shaq away from those teams and Kobe goes 0/3, assuming he even makes it to the finals. The MDE was the reason those teams won three rings.

LeBron > Moses.

LeBron > Kobe.

Lockout rings are full rings, enough of your bullshit. All of these threads trying to discredit LeBron reek of insecurity, you know that LeBron > Kobe but you're trying so very hard not to accept it.

[aj1987]

Russell >>>>>>>>>> Chokerlain...

the same Russell with 11 rings.

Wilt "the mental midget" Chokerlain = GOAT Choker.
FTFY. Too easy. :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings

Lol, so Kareem's last title when he averaged 10 ppg all season gets full credit, same goes for Bird in '81, Kobe in '00 and Shaq in '06 where they all averaged far less than 20 ppg in the Finals, and in the case of Shaq and Kobe, were outscored in the Finals by a teammate by over 20 ppg. But LeBron winning a title being bar none the best player on his team and playing great the entire postseason gets an *

Dat logic :applause:

[Hey Yo]

is he?

dunno about that...

- Jordan ( 6 rings )
- Kareem ( 6 rings )
- Russell ( 11 rings )
- Magic ( 5 rings )
- Kobe ( 5 rings )
- Duncan ( 4.5 rings )
- Wilt ( 2 rings )
- Bird ( 3 rings )
- Shaq ( 4 rings )
- Hakeem ( 2 rings )


you dont make the top 10 all time without atleast 2 rings
Kobe only has 2, played horribly for his 2nd one and the team needed 23FTA in the 4th quarter FTW

That's why he's around 13-15

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Cute 11 point neg. :oldlol:

If LeBron/Duncan are getting .5 rings for ridiculous reasons then Kobe sure as shit is getting 3 knocked off for being carried. :confusedshrug:

[Magic 32]

That's a little more accurate. Kobe was carried to three of his rings. Duncan deserves credit for all five of his.


http://s11.postimg.org/ri8lq2ab7/87567.png

http://s11.postimg.org/lvc8sl7sj/image.png


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/Xanar_Tulason/chris%20colfer%20gifs/ups.gif

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://s11.postimg.org/ri8lq2ab7/87567.png

http://s11.postimg.org/lvc8sl7sj/image.png


http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a10/Xanar_Tulason/chris%20colfer%20gifs/ups.gif

:hammerhead:

1) How do any of those box score stats gauge defensive impact? They're also not nearly as skewed as you might think, nothing wrong with 16/9 at 37.

2) Look at those game-scores...21 year old Kobe pretty much equates to 37 year old Duncan.

[Magic 32]

:hammerhead:

1) How do any of those box score stats gauge defensive impact? They're also not nearly as skewed as you might think, nothing wrong with 16/9 at 37.

2) Look at those game-scores...21 year old Kobe pretty much equates to 37 year old Duncan.

1)

Kobe was an elite defender in 2000. Absolute elite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0RFja2znY&t=4m35s

Bob knew.

2)

2x in assists, more blocks, more steals, 5 more points.

Timmy wins in rebounds and FG% (and that's nothing special for a big).

[pauk]

lol kenneth

[TheMarkMadsen]

2000 Kobe was an elite defender. Absolute elite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0RFja2znY&t=4m35s

Bob knew.


notice how he dodged the fact that guard was averaging more steals and blocks than Ducan

don't even post 01 & 02 playoff numbers, too much ether for this kid..

don't even mention that Kobe led the playoffs in 4th quarter scoring in 01 & 02 the ether might be too much

By the way great clip, too much ether

[greatest-ever]

This is Lebron easily and it's not debatable.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

2000 Kobe was an elite defender. Absolute elite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0RFja2znY&t=4m35s

Bob knew.

Oh shit, a quote from a broadcaster? Case closed. :rolleyes:

LeBron > Moses.

LeBron > Kobe.

[Magic 32]

Oh shit, a quote from a broadcaster?


And Doug Collins. And anyone with a brain.

Kobe was almost certainly the best perimeter defender in 1999-2000.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

And Doug collins. And anyone with a brain.

Kobe was almost certaly the best perimeter defender in 1999-2000.

Prove it. :confusedshrug:

LeBron > Kobe.

Shaq >>> Kobe.

Duncan >>>>> Kobe.

[SouBeachTalents]

And Doug Collins. And anyone with a brain.

Kobe was almost certainly the best perimeter defender in 1999-2000.

He'd definitely have a case. It'd be between him, Payton, and Eddie Jones

[pauk]

lockouts?

those seasons shouldn't even have took place... theyre lucky to get half a ring

The only thing 16 more regular season games would do that season is give Lebron more stat totals....

[Magic 32]

Prove it. :confusedshrug:


http://s7.postimg.org/536uq73jv/dfg.png

[SpecialQue]

Obviously Moses.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://s7.postimg.org/536uq73jv/dfg.png

:oldlol:

Derek Jeter has 5 Gold Gloves, he was an average defender at best.

[Magic 32]

:oldlol:

Derek Jeter has 5 Gold Gloves, he was an average defender at best.

So personal accounts from broadcasters and former players is not proof, same with official awards from the NBA.

What proof do you need?

Should I send you back before you were born to watch the entire 99-00 season?

[Showtime2001]

That's a little more accurate. Kobe was carried to three of his rings. Duncan deserves credit for all five of his.
http://s9.postimg.org/oudgd4l6n/11117335_10205494142207211_587409578_n_jpg_oh_c4.j pg

Try again. :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

So personal accounts from broadcasters and former players is not proof, same with official awards from the NBA.

What proof do you need?

Should I send you back before you were born to watch the entire 99-00 season?

:oldlol:

I wasn't even saying he was a bad defender, just that he wasn't the best. You can spin it however you want, Shaq was that squad's x-factor.

[plowking]

Moses comfortably.

[kennethgriffin]

the truth is

1999 - lockout ( asterisk 0.5 title )
2003 - legit ring
2005 - Manu 20ppg on 60% + assist leader in finals ( duncan 20ppg on 40% )
2007 - parker finals mvp
2014 - kawhi finals mvp ( parker 2nd option )

this is not better than kobe


1. kobe has no lockout rings
2. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as manu in the finals
3. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as parker in the finals
4. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as kawhi in the finals


when kobe wasnt winning finals mvps.. atleast he averaged a combined 26ppg for those 3 playoff runs

thats more than any of duncans 1st option rings

[TheMarkMadsen]

:oldlol:

Derek Jeter has 5 Gold Gloves, he was an average defender at best.

wow talk about deflecting

:roll: :roll:

[SouBeachTalents]

the truth is

1999 - lockout ( asterisk 0.5 title )
2003 - legit ring
2005 - Manu 20ppg on 60% + assist leader in finals ( duncan 20ppg on 40% )
2007 - parker finals mvp
2014 - kawhi finals mvp ( parker 2nd option )

this is not better than kobe


1. kobe has no lockout rings
2. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as manu in the finals
3. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as parker in the finals
4. kobe was never out performed by a teammate as low as kawhi in the finals


when kobe wasnt winning finals mvps.. atleast he averaged a combined 26ppg for those 3 playoff runs

thats more than any of duncans 1st option rings

That's only because Duncan didn't get to spend 7 years playing with another top 10 player of all time, one who was arguably the MDE

[kennethgriffin]

The only thing 16 more regular season games would do that season is give Lebron more stat totals....


less games changes all the seedings

compact schedule ****s over older teams

less practice and no training camp ****s over new coaches/systems/players

randomness combined with all the injuries due to the messy schedule means the wrong team likely won in 2012

if it was a full season i'd say the spurs/bulls likely end up in the finals and rose doesnt go down

bulls likely end up nba champs

[Magic 32]

:oldlol:

I wasn't even saying he was a bad defender, just that he wasn't the best. You can spin it however you want, Shaq was that squad's x-factor.

So Shaq made Kobe an elite defender?

Talk about spin.

Kobe was by far the best defender in 1999-00. Not even close. The hands, the speed, the length, the athleticism? Amazing defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrdTzh_iH6s

[kennethgriffin]

with full seasons

1999 champs = utah jazz
2012 champs = chicago bulls


this is why theres asterisks

[kennethgriffin]

That's only because Duncan didn't get to spend 7 years playing with another top 10 player of all time, one who was arguably the MDE

:biggums:

you're saying duncan was outperformed by manu/parker/kawhi because he didn't have shaq?

did you just hit your head or something?

[SouBeachTalents]

:biggums:

you're saying duncan was outperformed by manu/parker/kawhi because he didn't have shaq?

did you just hit your head or something?

Lol, no, your argument was Kobe was never outperformed by someone as "low" as Duncan's teammates, but that's only because the guy who outperformed Kobe was a top 10 player of all time. With that in mind, it's pretty amazing they ended up with the same amount of rings

[24-Inch_Chrome]

So Shaq made Kobe an elite defender?

Talk about spin.

Kobe was by far the best defender in 1999-00. Not even close. The hands, the speed, the length, the athleticism? Amazing defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BrdTzh_iH6s

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

[kennethgriffin]

Lol, no, your argument was Kobe was never outperformed by someone as "low" as Duncan's teammates, but that's only because the guy who outperformed Kobe was a top 10 player of all time. With that in mind, it's pretty amazing they ended up with the same amount of rings

i dont get it..

all 5 of kobes titles and even kobes 2 finals he lost he had a better finals average than manu in 05, parker in 07 and kawhi in 14

you definitely hit your head

at best you could argue 2000 but without his sprained ankle game where he had to leave with only 2 points kobe averaged 19ppg for the series

[Magic 32]

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

Yes, video evidence, stats, personal accounts from journalists and players, official awards.

I think were done here.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Yes, video evidence, stats, personal accounts from journalists and players, official awards.

I think were done here.

http://media2.giphy.com/media/Fml0fgAxVx1eM/giphy.gif

[Lebron23]

The guy who's a 4x NBA MVP, 2x Finals MVP, Back to Back NBA Champion, and 1x NBA Scoring Champion.

[dubeta]

1)

Kobe was an elite defender in 2000. Absolute elite.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ0RFja2znY&t=4m35s

Bob knew.



Are those the same people saying Kobe was a clutch performer as well? :oldlol:


Kobes entire career has been nothing but lies

[Nash]

except for being lucky getting drafted into the Lakers with monster shaq Kobe would not even sniff top 10.

i mean even with the Shaq rings he still has as many accolades as Lebron and Lebron has played 7 seasons less.