Michael jackson is the Goat and its not even close

[rlsmooth775]

Criteria for ranking artists.

Talent
record sale achievements
longevity

Michael can sing, dance, was a prolific songwriter. Top 3 in all time record sales, has 5 best selling albums including the best seller of all time. The first four records of his career were number one hits 1969-1970 and his last album while alive in 2001 was number one in every country.

[L.Kizzle]

Jermaine > Mike

[robert de niro]

:sleeping

[rlsmooth775]

No one else is even close to his dominance quite amazing :applause:

[Godzuki]

MJ was corny to me in all aspects of entertainment other than his slow songs but he was one of the most caring and altruistic humanitarians in history. thats why he gets a pass for being a pedo. fukk u bitches who want to dog him when all those abused mf'ers were clearly after his money.

its really sad to me how MJ ended up vilified when he probably had the biggest heart of any rich human being in history.

[L.Kizzle]

MJ was corny to me in all aspects of entertainment other than his slow songs but he was one of the most caring and altruistic humanitarians in history. thats why he gets a pass for being a pedo. fukk u bitches who want to dog him when all those abused mf'ers were clearly after his money.

its really sad to me how MJ ended up vilified when he probably had the biggest heart of any rich human being in history.
Grown gangsta nighas used to cry at his concerts.

[Smook A.]

[CelticBaller]

and a horrible human being

[BlakFrankWhite]

In terms of being an artist(dancing,music videos) etc he's certainly among the best.

But in terms of being a musician....he isn't even top 50.

[Smook A.]

and a horrible human being
Horrible humans don't donate a combined $350,000,000 to charities, spend countless hours visiting hospitals and giving presents to sick people, or write songs like "Heal The World" "Earth Song" or "Man in the Mirror". Michael Jackson was a great person. He was just extremely misunderstood.

[rlsmooth775]

In terms of being an artist(dancing,music videos) etc he's certainly among the best.

But in terms of being a musician....he isn't even top 50.

Name someone who wrote more hits.

[Jud]

In terms of being an artist(dancing,music videos) etc he's certainly among the best.

But in terms of being a musician....he isn't even top 50.
:biggums:

[rlsmooth775]

His compositions are incredible.

[BlakFrankWhite]

His compositions are incredible.


He hardly did any compositions....much of his lyrics were written for him...all he had to do was go out and sing and dance.


Oh yeah,Beatles sold more albums than Mj....think Gareth brook,Elvis did too

[rlsmooth775]

He hardly did any compositions....much of his lyrics were written for him...all he had to do was go out and sing and dance.

:lol Dudes in the songwriters hall of fame but you claim he didnt write.

[Smook A.]

He hardly did any compositions....much of his lyrics were written for him...all he had to do was go out and sing and dance.


Oh yeah,Beatles sold more albums than Mj....think Gareth brook,Elvis did too
You're so wrong.

Off The Wall - there were 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 4, all the songs he wrote, were all the hits and the ones that got the awards.

Thriller - 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 5, again those that he wrote were the hits and the ones that he got the grammys for.

Bad - 11 songs on the album, MJ wrote all the songs except for 2. that’s 9 songs he wrote, again all the hits.

Dangerous - Michael wrote, and co-wrote all the songs on the dangerous album except for 1.

HIStory - Michael wrote all the songs except for 1

Blood on the Dance Floor - all his own songs, remixes of his own work.

Invincible - MJ wrote and co-wrote all those songs

Also, Michael is 3rd in all-time records sold. Elvis and Beatles are ahead kind of because they've existed longer...

[rlsmooth775]

He hardly did any compositions....much of his lyrics were written for him...all he had to do was go out and sing and dance.


Oh yeah,Beatles sold more albums than Mj....think Gareth brook,Elvis did too

Nope he's top 3 in worldwide record sales behind elvis and the beatles. You might be thinking
of garth brooks on U.S. list. No one has Mjs combination of Talent record sales longevity in al of pop culture.

[rlsmooth775]

[QUOTE=Smook A.]You're so wrong.

Off The Wall - there were 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 4, all the songs he wrote, were all the hits and the ones that got the awards.

Thriller - 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 5, again those that he wrote were the hits and the ones that he got the grammys for.

Bad - 11 songs on the album, MJ wrote all the songs except for 2. that

[Smook A.]

Michael Jackson has written and released over 150 songs while alive. His other songs were made and are still not released
He also said he would write over a hundred songs for each album before picking about 10 of those to be in there.

[Nowitness]

Since when was Pop music artistic?

[rlsmooth775]

Since when was Pop music artistic?

It was until people like britney spears.

[L.Kizzle]

Since when was Pop music artistic?
Pop music is popular music.

[Nowitness]

Pop music is popular music.

Or it is redundant, over sentimental, mechanical, trendy, dumbed down music revolving around relationships, dancing and haters.

So no, Popular Music and Pop aren't the same. Kanye West is not Pop. Led Zeppelin was not Pop. Taylor Swift is Pop. Michael Jackson was Pop.

[rlsmooth775]

Or it is redundant, over sentimental, mechanical, trendy, dumbed down music revolving around relationships, dancing and haters.

So no, Popular Music and Pop aren't the same. Kanye West is not Pop. Led Zeppelin was not Pop. Taylor Swift is Pop. Michael Jackson was Pop.

Nope most of michaels music dealt with his paranoia fears

[32jazz]

Or it is redundant, over sentimental, mechanical, trendy, dumbed down music revolving around relationships, dancing and haters.

So no, Popular Music and Pop aren't the same. Kanye West is not Pop. Led Zeppelin was not Pop. Taylor Swift is Pop. Michael Jackson was Pop.


When the hell did the glorified cover band "Zepellin" & Kanye lift themselves 'above' pop music?

Jazz is the most sophisticated music to come out of the US. Jazz is 'Pop Music'.

[Im so nba'd out]

:lol Dudes in the songwriters hall of fame but you claim he didnt write.
lol he didnt respond after you said this


the either is strong in this one :lol

[ThePhantomCreep]

Pedo Pan wasn't even the best pop songwriter of the 80s, that would be Prince. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye crush him in crafting great songs.

[NZStreetBaller]

I love how authentic mj was. He wrote most of his songs. I think he wrote em all im not sure. And he didnt use auto tune. And didnt have alot of collaboration. It was mostly michael jackson. These days people collab with everyone use autotune and sht.

Everyone is so manufactured These days.

Mj has the most recognizable dance moves and songs worldwide.

[JohnnySic]

In 1984 Michael Jackson was the coolest human being alive. Then he got weird.

[warriorfan]

GOAT molester

[9erempiree]

Elvis Presley could be argued as better than Michael Jackson.

http://hittrax.com.au/images/artists/elvis_presley.jpg

[rlsmooth775]

Pedo Pan wasn't even the best pop songwriter of the 80s, that would be Prince. Stevie Wonder and Marvin Gaye crush him in crafting great songs.

Michael jackson is the greatest writer in pop music history.

[L.Kizzle]

When the hell did the glorified cover band "Zepellin" & Kanye lift themselves 'above' pop music?

Jazz is the most sophisticated music to come out of the US. Jazz is 'Pop Music'.
Why is Led Zep not pop but MJ is?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Michael jackson is the greatest writer in pop music history.

No, he wasn't. The bigger his share of the songwriting credits, the worse his albums got. Doesn't speak well to his GOAT credentials.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Elvis Presley could be argued as better than Michael Jackson.

http://hittrax.com.au/images/artists/elvis_presley.jpg

0 songwriting credits. Next.

[9erempiree]

0 songwriting credits. Next.

MJ had a weak voice compared to Elvis and OP's criteria did not include song writing even though Elvis has written and arranged a lot of songs.

You're totally arguing something not relevant, therefore, I will throw in vocals as another criteria.

[9erempiree]

Also, I rather take a guy that took rock n roll to the mainstream and very influential towards other greats than someone that is considered the King of pop music.

I'm not a pop music guy.

[rlsmooth775]

MJ had a weak voice compared to Elvis and OP's criteria did not include song writing even though Elvis has written and arranged a lot of songs.

You're totally arguing something not relevant, therefore, I will throw in vocals as another criteria.

elvis is like geroge mikan dude lol at you using that clown.

[rlsmooth775]

No, he wasn't. The bigger his share of the songwriting credits, the worse his albums got. Doesn't speak well to his GOAT credentials.

They were all number one albums and are some of the best selling albums of all time.

[9erempiree]

Also Elvis hot all facets of entertainment. He was a great actor too. Most of his music is played when he was performing them live.

He reached a broader audience without Internet. His music was literally spread through word of mouth.

[rlsmooth775]

Also Elvis hot all facets of entertainment. He was a great actor too. Most of his music is played when he was performing them live.

He reached a broader audience without Internet. His music was literally spread through word of mouth.

You lose all credibility when you say he was a great actor

[9erempiree]

The great producer Hal Wallace said in his autobiography that Elvis had more "raw talent and charisma " than any actor in Hollywood in the 1950s and 60s .And he knew them all . He said he (Elvis) was also one of the most polite and kind people he ever met . And he always felt some guilt for not trying to intervene with Col. Parker's treatment of Elvis early on .

He turned down a lot of movies that ended up being all time greats because he had a greedy manager. There are many people in the industry at the time, considered him great because of his natural charisma. No doubt he is a good actor. I've seen a lot of his films and he is very similar to the likes of James Dean and others of the time.

I recommend these movies. This is his actual work. The rest was him in a monkey suit, playing the same part and dancing.

King Creole
Change Of Habit
Flaming Star
Kid Galahad

[tomtucker]

exactly..........check out my new avy............:rockon:

[AkronAngel]

His case for GOAT is pretty damn strong.

[9erempiree]

It also depends on which MJ you are talking about here. Black or White, no pun. Not being in movies is strongly goes against his greatness as an entertainer. Average to good voice, with some classic ballads when he was with the Jackson 5, but anything after was not good. Ben and I'll Be There are Jackson 5 classics and not him.

He was a child prodigy and kept making hits as his career matured. Someone like Elvis immediately hit it off. For example, Elvis sold more records in one year than anyone combined for the decade of the 50's. This happened during a time with so little exposure and early communicating applications of the time.

I consider MJ to be one of the greatest of all time but he cannot be undisputed GOAT when we have a guy like Elvis who sold a lot more records than him. Not only did he sell less records than Elvis but he looked up to the guy that sold more than him.

[Smook A.]

It also depends on which MJ you are talking about here. Black or White, no pun. Not being in movies is strongly goes against his greatness as an entertainer. Average to good voice, with some classic ballads when he was with the Jackson 5, but anything after was not good. Ben and I'll Be There are Jackson 5 classics and not him.

He was a child prodigy and kept making hits as his career matured. Someone like Elvis immediately hit it off. For example, Elvis sold more records in one year than anyone combined for the decade of the 50's. This happened during a time with so little exposure and early communicating applications of the time.

I consider MJ to be one of the greatest of all time but he cannot be undisputed GOAT when we have a guy like Elvis who sold a lot more records than him. Not only did he sell less records than Elvis but he looked up to the guy that sold more than him.
One HUGE reason why Elvis and the Beatles have more records sold than MJ is because they've been around longer. Ever thought of that?

[9erempiree]

One HUGE reason why Elvis and the Beatles have more records sold than MJ is because they've been around longer. Ever thought of that?

You made another point for me that I forgot to mention. Elvis was putting out records till he passed.

Michael Jackson, as much as I loved him, fell off the face of this Earth up until his death. Didn't put out an album for the longest time and when he did, it failed miserably. Nobody cared for the guy. I remember playing MJ songs on the jukebox and people would hate it. Call me gay for listening to a "child molester".

Since he died, he had a re-emergence of popularity and a lot of people jumped on the bandwagon.

Even a google search of ISH, nobody was talking about Michael Jackson, his threads start around the year he passed. Says a lot about the noob fans.

[9erempiree]

2001 was his last album he put out. It was criticized as crap by critics.

Through this 8 year span, nobody gave a shit about him. His music was hardly played on the radio such as Adult Contemporary stations.

Suddenly he dies and became famous again. You kids need to recognize who Elvis Presley is.

[HitandRun Reggie]

When you say the name Michael Jackson, in America at least, the first thing that comes to mind with most is Molester, no Thriller.

[9erempiree]

When you say the name Michael Jackson, in America at least, the first thing that comes to mind with most is Molester, no Thriller.

I have to agree. When people think of MJ they thought of molester, but in reality, he was a legend. Michael Jackson is one of the greatest of all time, but where these guys defending him in 2001-2007? Nowhere to be found.

They are wagoners.

[Joyner82reload]

One HUGE reason why Elvis and the Beatles have more records sold than MJ is because they've been around longer. Ever thought of that?

The Beatles are the GOAT musicians. The impact they have had on music and their what seems like forever lasting appeal sets them above all else. They have 10+ singles that are still well known by every generation, Michael Jackson the solo artist has maybe 2 or 3.

Michael Jackson, however, was the greatest entertainer in the history of music. His moves were unprecedented and his only potential rival was Elvis Presley in that regard. Also if you're going to include the Jackson 5 with Michael Jackson, then you must include the solo careers of McCartney and Lennon.

[L.Kizzle]

It also depends on which MJ you are talking about here. Black or White, no pun. Not being in movies is strongly goes against his greatness as an entertainer. Average to good voice, with some classic ballads when he was with the Jackson 5, but anything after was not good. Ben and I'll Be There are Jackson 5 classics and not him.

He was a child prodigy and kept making hits as his career matured. Someone like Elvis immediately hit it off. For example, Elvis sold more records in one year than anyone combined for the decade of the 50's. This happened during a time with so little exposure and early communicating applications of the time.

I consider MJ to be one of the greatest of all time but he cannot be undisputed GOAT when we have a guy like Elvis who sold a lot more records than him. Not only did he sell less records than Elvis but he looked up to the guy that sold more than him.
Ben is a MJ solo record. 1972 chart topper and Academy Award Winning song from the film Willard.

[ThePhantomCreep]

MJ had a weak voice compared to Elvis and OP's criteria did not include song writing even though Elvis has written and arranged a lot of songs.

You're totally arguing something not relevant, therefore, I will throw in vocals as another criteria.
Songwriting falls under talent, and the OP singled it out. Elvis was not a songwriter. Awesome singer, but he was dependent on others to give him open shots, so to speak.

[ThePhantomCreep]

One HUGE reason why Elvis and the Beatles have more records sold than MJ is because they've been around longer. Ever thought of that?

But the Beatles broke up in 1970 though, and never reunited. Even without John, a reunion tour in 1995 would have annihilated records worldwide. Besides, MJ wasn't that much newer than The Beatles. Jackson 5 anyone?

The Beatles are the GOAT. They were the second best selling musical act of the 2000s, behind Eminem. A group that ceased to exist during the Nixon administration, whipping ass on current the musical acts. They stand alone.

[warriorfan]

who had more litte white weeners in his mouth :confusedshrug:

[Smook A.]

2001 was his last album he put out. It was criticized as crap by critics.

Through this 8 year span, nobody gave a shit about him. His music was hardly played on the radio such as Adult Contemporary stations.

Suddenly he dies and became famous again. You kids need to recognize who Elvis Presley is.
That album might've not been his best work, but it still sold about 10 million copies. Just goes to show you the popularity of Michael Jackson was still sky high. The reason why it didn't get sold more compared to his other albums was because it never got promoted by Sony. Apparently, MJ and the cheif of Sony Music, Tommy Mottola, had some sort of a feud. It was after 2003 where MJ's career started going downhill. The allegations really ****ed him over even though he wasn't guilty. He became more of a joke. It's sad, honestly.


who had more litte white weeners in his mouth :confusedshrug:
Trying to be funny? You can just **** off.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Prince is a multi-instrumentalist and a highly respected guitar player. He composes all his music, his vocal range is superb and he's amazingly prolific, with 25 studio album to his credit.
He has four albums (Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain, Sign O the Times) that are among the most critically acclaimed of the 80s. He even starred in a hit film.

Outside of album sales (which doesn't gauge quality), I see no legit argument that MJ was better.

[rlsmooth775]

Prince is a multi-instrumentalist and a highly respected guitar player. He composes all his music, his vocal range is superb and he's amazingly prolific, with 25 studio album to his credit.
He has four albums (Dirty Mind, 1999, Purple Rain, Sign O the Times) that are among the most critically acclaimed of the 80s. He even starred in a hit film.

Outside of album sales (which doesn't gauge quality), I see no legit argument that MJ was better.

Talented guy but you also need longevity and record sales to be the goat. Michael had more impact on pop culture. This is the man who created the modern day music video, had the first world premier on mtv. I also think MJ was a better writer, made more classics.

[Nowitness]

It's actually pretty shocking to see most people agree with the statement.

He isn't close to being the greatest artist of all time, even if you only mean musical artist.

There is more artistry in a single scream of Kanye, a single piano key of JPJ, a single surreal lyric of Don Van Vilet, a single guitar strum of Frank Zappa than MJ's entire discography.

[Smook A.]

It's actually pretty shocking to see most people agree with the statement.

He isn't close to being the greatest artist of all time, even if you only mean musical artist.

There is more artistry in a single scream of Kanye, a single piano key of JPJ, a single surreal lyric of Don Van Vilet, a single guitar strum of Frank Zappa than MJ's entire discography.
You are so ****ing stupid :oldlol:

[Nowitness]

You are so ****ing stupid :oldlol:

He didn't even write half the songs on his most revered album. You stay losing dude. The man was nothing more than mindless entertainment who occasionally threw us a social song about saving the children.

He isn't in my top 100 musical artists of all time.

[HitandRun Reggie]

Talented guy but you also need longevity and record sales to be the goat. Michael had more impact on pop culture. This is the man who created the modern day music video, had the first world premier on mtv. I also think MJ was a better writer, made more classics.


Versus Prince? I don't even think most hardcore MJ fans would make that bold of a statement.

[Smook A.]

He didn't even write half the songs on his most revered album. You stay losing dude. The man was nothing more than mindless entertainment who occasionally threw us a social song about saving the children.

He isn't in my top 100 musical artists of all time.
Do your research. How ****ing stupid can you get to think that Michael Jackson didn't write the majority of his songs. Google that shit you idiot. He's also helped produce and compose almost all of his songs.

off the wall- there were 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 4, all the songs he wrote, were all the hits and the ones that got the awards.
thriller- 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 5, again those that he wrote were the hits and the ones that he got the grammys for.
bad- 11 songs on the album, MJ wrote all the songs except for 2. thats 9 that he wrote, again all the hits!
dangerous- Michael wrote, and co-wrote all the songs on the dangerous album except for 1.
history- Michael wrote all the songs except for 1.
blood on the dance floor- all his own songs, remixes of his own work.
invincible- MJ wrote and co-wrote all those songs

I don't give a shit if you're not an MJ fan, but saying you don't believe that he's a top 100 artist of all time tells me you don't know anything about music. Stay losing.

[Nowitness]

Do your research. How ****ing stupid can you get to think that Michael Jackson didn't write the majority of his songs. Google that shit you idiot. He's also produced and composed almost all of his songs.

off the wall- there were 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 4, all the songs he wrote, were all the hits and the ones that got the awards.
thriller- 9 songs on the album, MJ wrote 5, again those that he wrote were the hits and the ones that he got the grammys for.
bad- 11 songs on the album, MJ wrote all the songs except for 2. thats 9 that he wrote, again all the hits!
dangerous- Michael wrote, and co-wrote all the songs on the dangerous album except for 1.
history- Michael wrote all the songs except for 1.
blood on the dance floor- all his own songs, remixes of his own work.
invincible- MJ wrote and co-wrote all those songs

I don't give a shit if you're not an MJ fan, but saying you don't believe that he's a top 100 artist of all time tells me you don't know anything about music. Stay losing.

On Thriller he wrote Wanna Be Startin Something, Beat It, Billie Jean and The Girl is Mine. That is 4 out of 9. So not half. On top of this McCartney, Van Halen and Vincent Price outshined him on his own work.

And actually it shows that I know more about music than anyone and everyone on this board. Certainly more than you.

[Smook A.]

On Thriller he wrote Wanna Be Startin Something, Beat It, Billie Jean and The Girl is Mine. That is 4 out of 9. So not half. On top of this McCartney, Van Halen and Vincent Price outshined him on his own work.

And actually it shows that I know more about music than anyone and everyone on this board. Certainly more than you.
You gonna ignore the rest of that list? Bad, Dangerous, and Off The Wall were also huge albums.

[warriorfan]

Jerry Sandusky fucced up, should of made pop music...would of walked away with a much better rep.

[Jud]

Jerry Sandusky fucced up, should of made pop music...would of walked away with a much better rep.
One guy was guilty, the other guy wasn't guilty.

[9erempiree]

I think people arguing he is not GOAT have a better argument than those who claim he is GOAT.

I believe he is one of the greatest of all time and quite possibly my favorite of all time but I cannot ignore all the musical greats of the past and present.

You have to be very open minded when it comes to artists. For example, the Mona Lisa or the Statue of David cannot be argued as GOAT because I may prefer Van Gogh or Picasso.

To deem one person or art as GOAT would be doing a disservice to the art itself.

[SexSymbol]

To me, he's easily better than stones, elvis, beatles, gnr or anything I can think of as of now.
Quite easily the GOAT musician of all time, and one of the best human beings to grace this earth with his existence

[Nowitness]

When are you dummies going to realize that dancing doesn't have anything to do with musical ability?

Never. These people believe that catchy hooks, techno beats and moon walking = artistic genius.

[Nowitness]

To me, he's easily better than stones, elvis, beatles, gnr or anything I can think of as of now.
Quite easily the GOAT musician of all time, and one of the best human beings to grace this earth with his existence

A pedophile is one of the best human beings?
Also lel at putting Axl Rose and Slash next to The Beatles and Elvis.

[SexSymbol]

A pedophile is one of the best human beings?
Also lel at putting Axl Rose and Slash next to The Beatles and Elvis.
Beatles aren't really that great, they were just a stupid boyband before getting into some of the more serious stuff, but even then they quite often come short. They've gone to do some great songs one by one though.
I'd take guns and roses over them anyday of the week.
Elvis is great though

[9erempiree]

All this talk about Beatles and you guys don't bring up The Beach Boys?

Heck, the so-called great Beatles copied The Beach Boys.

I take the original American sound over the British sound.

[SexSymbol]

When are you dummies going to realize that dancing doesn't have anything to do with musical ability?
It does if you are still able to sing at an elite level while dancing your ass off.
MJ is the most innovative music act of all time with incredible levels of depth, fun, worldly issues and so on.
He has the longevity, the quantity and the quality to be objectively considered in the GOAT discussion by anyone who has heard of him.
Nowitness, stop making yourself look stupid, everybody has opinions, but you're just straight up insulting the guy for what he wasn't found guilty for. Even that, you may not like him as a human, but respect the artist that so many people have been inspired by.

[L.Kizzle]

When are you dummies going to realize that dancing doesn't have anything to do with musical ability?
Can Paul McCartney stay on rhythm to a song he just created? I doubt it.

[KNOW1EDGE]

Mentally ill chimo, horrible human being, terrible father, a very sad individual who needed help and never got it.

GOAT entertainer, best dancer of all time, most impactful artist of all time.

Feel bad for him.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Beatles aren't really that great, they were just a stupid boyband before getting into some of the more serious stuff, but even then they quite often come short. They've gone to do some great songs one by one though.
I'd take guns and roses over them anyday of the week.
Elvis is great though

Ironic considering most actual boy bands would cite MJ as a major influence. Justin Timberlake practically worships the guy.

Tune into any top 40 station--that's MJ's musical legacy. Mindless pop garbage. Calling him the GOAT musician is an insult.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Mentally ill chimo, horrible human being, terrible father, a very sad individual who needed help and never got it.

GOAT entertainer, best dancer of all time, most impactful artist of all time.

Feel bad for him.

MJ released 6 measly albums in 30 years and barely toured. Why is he the GOAT entertainer again?

Best dancer ever? Ever heard of Nuryev, Baryshnikov?

James Brown kills him on that front. Hardest working mfer in show business and a brilliant groundbreaking musician, much more so than MJ. He deserves the posthumous kudos MJ is getting.

As for most impactful, in what way?

[9erempiree]

Lets not ne retarded now. While i dont think he is goat, lets not trash him and diminish his accomplishments to prove he is not goat.

Mj was very influential because look at all the artists that try to imitate him. He also invented popping, locking and gliding to the mainstream.

Sold out worldwide. Can write and compose and to choreography. Basically everything from scratch.

[L.Kizzle]

MJ released 6 measly albums in 30 years and barely toured. Why is he the GOAT entertainer again?

Best dancer ever? Ever heard of Nuryev, Baryshnikov?

James Brown kills him on that front. Hardest working mfer in show business and a brilliant groundbreaking musician, much more so than MJ. He deserves the posthumous kudos MJ is getting.

As for most impactful, in what way?
Do the 20+ albums he released with his brothers not count?

[Smook A.]

MJ released 6 measly albums in 30 years and barely toured. Why is he the GOAT entertainer again?

Best dancer ever? Ever heard of Nuryev, Baryshnikov?

James Brown kills him on that front. Hardest working mfer in show business and a brilliant groundbreaking musician, much more so than MJ. He deserves the posthumous kudos MJ is getting.

As for most impactful, in what way?
Barely toured? Between 1980-2000 MJ did 8 tours (3 with the Jacksons). In those 8 tours, there were over 400 concerts. That's a lot.

[JohnFreeman]

Beatles and it's not close

[L.Kizzle]

Barely toured? Between 1980-2000 MJ did 8 tours (3 with the Jacksons). In those 8 tours, there were over 400 concerts. That's a lot.
Not to mention tours between 1970-1979. Plus a Vegas act, a television variety series that ran for two seasons on CBS.

[Joyner82reload]

Is not ultimately an artist rated by their long-lasting appeal? Something that we can look back on 50-100 years later and still revere? Name me 2 songs by Michael Jackson, not including the Jackson 5, that are still well known by most people born post 1985 outside of Thriller, Beat it, Smooth Criminal, Billie Jean, and Man in the Mirror. And half of them wouldn't even recognize Smooth Criminal or Man in the Mirror.

Meanwhile the Beatles have dozens

[L.Kizzle]

Is not ultimately an artist rated by their long-lasting appeal? Something that we can look back on 50-100 years later and still revere? Name me 2 songs by Michael Jackson, not including the Jackson 5, that are still well known by most people born post 1985 outside of Thriller, Beat it, Smooth Criminal, Billie Jean, and Man in the Mirror. And half of them wouldn't even recognize Smooth Criminal or Man in the Mirror.

Meanwhile the Beatles have dozens
Really the Beatles? Tomorrow ask random people to name just 2 Beatles songs.

[warriorfan]

yellow submarine and I wanna hold your hand, I don't know any others...I respect their sales and popularity but personally I've always thought beatles were unlistenable

[ThePhantomCreep]

The best selling album worldwide from 2000-2009. A greatest hits package, from a band that already had several:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ru/b/be/The_Beatles_1_album_cover.jpg

That is all.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Barely toured? Between 1980-2000 MJ did 8 tours (3 with the Jacksons). In those 8 tours, there were over 400 concerts. That's a lot.

That breaks down to 50 dates per tour. Not a lot.

He completed less than 300 dates between 1987-2009. The Stones probably topped that just in the 90s.

[rlsmooth775]

Lol the beatles suck, pop culture was trash in the 60s.

[rlsmooth775]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipADNlW7yBM beatles song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7qXHjxj_0 mj song

Michael jackson has superior records.

[Sarcastic]

1 Beatles
2 Michael Jackson
3 Elvis

Jackson was on his way to GOAT, but the whole pedo thing put a damper on him. You can go anywhere on the planet, and they can play a Jackson song, and people will start to jam out. Can't say that about anyone else really.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Lol the beatles suck, pop culture was trash in the 60s.

So trash, they sold 28 million albums in the US from 2000-2009, far more than MJ or Elvis. Only one artist topped them, Eminem. That's it.

[ThePhantomCreep]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ipADNlW7yBM beatles song
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LJ7qXHjxj_0 mj song

Michael jackson has superior records.

Weak track from an album that received lukewarm reviews. MJ's post-Thriller career in a nutshell.

[rlsmooth775]

So trash, they sold 28 million albums in the US from 2000-2009, far more than MJ or Elvis. Only one artist topped them, Eminem. That's it.

Just old beatle fans buying a greatest hit cd big deal. Whos songs are more popular in 2015 mj or the beatles

[ThePhantomCreep]

Just old beatle fans buying a greatest hit cd big deal. Whos songs are more popular in 2015 mj or the beatlesYou're forgetting the Beatles back catalog, which always does brisk business. The 2009 remasters alone totaled 30 million individual units sold.

Old fans comprised the bulk of MJ's post-2009 sales too. You think kids are clamoring for MJ's posthumous material? Xscape tanked.

[Joyner82reload]

Just old beatle fans buying a greatest hit cd big deal. Whos songs are more popular in 2015 mj or the beatles

EASILY the Beatles.

Twist and Shout
Eleanor Rigby
Let it Be
All you need is Love
Hey Jude
Hello, Goodbye
I want to hold your hand
She Loves You

All of those songs are still immensely popular and regularly featured in ads/movies/tv/sporting events, not to mention the radio.

[bdreason]

He's in the same bracket as Elvis and the Beatles.

[SexSymbol]

EASILY the Beatles.

Twist and Shout
Eleanor Rigby
Let it Be
All you need is Love
Hey Jude
Hello, Goodbye
I want to hold your hand
She Loves You

All of those songs are still immensely popular and regularly featured in ads/movies/tv/sporting events, not to mention the radio.

Billie Jean
Thriller
Smooth Criminal
Earth Song
You are not alone
Black and White
ABC
Beat it
Say Say Say
Dirty Diana
Bad

Beatles top 3 song are more known than MJ's, but MJ's top 3-15 songs are much more known than the counterparts of the beatles

[Dresta]

GOAT of what exactly? Making idiotic squeaks and calling it music?

[ThePhantomCreep]

The Beatles easily have more "famous songs" than any artist in history.

Their list of well known songs that weren't even released as singles blows away most greatest hits packages:

All My Loving
It Won't Be Long
Things We Said Today
I'll Follow the Sun
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Norwegian Wood
In My Life
Nowhere Man
Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band
With A Little Help From My Friends
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Magical Mystery Tour
I Am the Walrus
Day In the Life
Back in the USSR
Obladi-Oblada
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End
Across the Universe

[L.Kizzle]

The Beatles easily have more "famous songs" than any artist in history.

Their list of well known songs that weren't even released as singles blows away most greatest hits packages:

All My Loving
It Won't Be Long
Things We Said Today
I'll Follow the Sun
You've Got to Hide Your Love Away
Norwegian Wood
In My Life
Nowhere Man
Sgt. Peppers Lonely Hearts Club Band
With A Little Help From My Friends
Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
Magical Mystery Tour
I Am the Walrus
Day In the Life
Back in the USSR
Obladi-Oblada
While My Guitar Gently Weeps
Here Comes the Sun
Golden Slumbers/Carry That Weight/The End
Across the Universe
Random.people don't know any of those songs. While random people know MJ songs.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Random.people don't know any of those songs. While random people know MJ songs.Keep telling yourself that. Jacko Homers think kids are blasting "Earth Song" in their headphones on the way to school. :lol

Albums sold (United States):

Beatles: 177
Michael: 76

Random people buy way more Beatles albums.

[NumberSix]

I'm actually trying to picture people in 2015 driving around bumping Michael Jackson. Can't really see it.

[NumberSix]

You gonna ignore the rest of that list? Bad, Dangerous, and Off The Wall were also huge albums.
Yeah, Madonna's albums were huge in the 80s too. Britney Spears, backstreet boys and N'sync albums were huge. So what?

Michael Jackson is in that same category of lame pop music. He is the top dog of that category, but he's still in that category.

[L.Kizzle]

Yeah, Madonna's albums were huge in the 80s too. Britney Spears, backstreet boys and N'sync albums were huge. So what?

Michael Jackson is in that same category of lame pop music. He is the top dog of that category, but he's still in that category.
You're saying a great written piece if music like Heartbreak Hotel is lame music?

[NumberSix]

You're saying a great written piece if music like Heartbreak Hotel is lame music?
No, but that had the benefit of being made before the "80s sound" was established.

Pop music from the 70s and the transitional period between the 70s and the 80s holds up a lot better than 80s pop music. 80s music has not aged well.

[rlsmooth775]

Keep telling yourself that. Jacko Homers think kids are blasting "Earth Song" in their headphones on the way to school. :lol

Albums sold (United States):

Beatles: 177
Michael: 76

Random people buy way more Beatles albums.

Those sale figures are old. Its a fact more young people like Mj in 2015 than the beatles

[rlsmooth775]

You're forgetting the Beatles back catalog, which always does brisk business. The 2009 remasters alone totaled 30 million individual units sold.

Old fans comprised the bulk of MJ's post-2009 sales too. You think kids are clamoring for MJ's posthumous material? Xscape tanked.

number 2 on the charts a platinum single is tanking

[rlsmooth775]

No, but that had the benefit of being made before the "80s sound" was established.

Pop music from the 70s and the transitional period between the 70s and the 80s holds up a lot better than 80s pop music. 80s music has not aged well.

Heartbrwak hotel was made in 80 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iimlSAi6iLA

[L.Kizzle]

Heartbrwak hotel was made in 80 https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iimlSAi6iLA
Mike wrote composed and produced song. Also arranged the orchestration parts and horn arrangements along with Jerry Hey.

Not to many current people in the pop field are making records with this type of structure to it.

[mehyaM24]

there was actually nothing original or groundbreaking about him MUSICALLY.

his music was nothing but typical pop, funk & somewhat disco-esque. music that's been done by a million other people in pop music before him and was even pretty old hat by the time he did it during the mid 80's - post punk & new wave era. sounds miserably dated and cheesy TODAY.

there were much more inventive and original musical acts during the 80's (like Talking Heads, Sonic Youth, Concrete Blonde, Kate Bush, Split Enz, The Smiths among others) who I think would give that decade a much better name music-wise - but get overshadowed and underrated by "The King of Pop's" over-inflated reputation & celebrity. he also didn't pioneer conceptual music videos like alot of idiots falsely claim (re: that famous 'Thriller' video which is also now terribly dated and corny as shit).

[rlsmooth775]

Lol people can't even match the criteria. My artist is better than your artist because your artist sucks.That is basically what this thread has turned into.

[rlsmooth775]

Michael jackson platinum and top ten records from the late 60s- 10s longevity baby.

[Ratnik]

Kendrick Lamar is the greatest artist of all time. Period.

[mehyaM24]

Lol people can't even match the criteria. My artist is better than your artist because your artist sucks. Thats basically what this thread has turned into.
lmao @ "goat" & michael jackson in the same sentence. typical fanboy blinded by perception & celebrity.

many artists had already been making "michael jackson's music" - notably The Buggles, David Bowie, Frank Zappa, Devo among numerous others. the thing jackson actually did BEST was DANCE - i will give him THAT though. just about EVERYBODY, including many who weren't impressed with his music like my self were pretty wowed over by his dance moves.

[rlsmooth775]

lmao @ "goat" & michael jackson in the same sentence. typical fanboy blinded by perception & celebrity.

many artists had already been making "michael jackson's music" - notably The Buggles, David Bowie, Frank Zappa, Devo among numerous others. the thing jackson actually did BEST was DANCE - i will give him THAT though. just about EVERYBODY, including many who weren't impressed with his music like my self were pretty wowed over by his dance moves.

Someone is mad.

[rlsmooth775]

Show me a artist besides mj with the criteria.

Someone who can sing, dance, write music.
Someone with his incredible record sales
His longevity platinum, number one, top ten records from 60s-10s.

[NumberSix]

Show me a artist besides mj with the criteria.

Someone who can sing, dance, write music.
Someone with his incredible record sales
His longevity platinum, number one, top ten records from 60s-10s.
I know dancing is SUPER important in music, but how about, you know, the ability to play musical instruments? :confusedshrug:

[rlsmooth775]

I know dancing is SUPER important in music, but how about, you know, the ability to play musical instruments? :confusedshrug:

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005424-9529e9623a/1.jpg

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005430-680fa6a033/352115_1264376927236_9res_362_300.jpg

[NumberSix]

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005424-9529e9623a/1.jpg
I said "musical instruments". Those are drums.

[rlsmooth775]

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005427-21dcc22d69/19-YEAR-OLD-MICHAEL-PLAYING-GUITAR-michael-jackson-32437304-451-568.jpg

[NumberSix]

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005427-21dcc22d69/19-YEAR-OLD-MICHAEL-PLAYING-GUITAR-michael-jackson-32437304-451-568.jpg
It appears that Michael Jackson definitely has the ability to hold a guitar.

[rlsmooth775]

:lol Is anyone going to meet the criteria? If not i win.

[NumberSix]

:lol Is anyone going to meet the criteria? If not i win.
Why is your criteria worth anything?

Explain how Michael Jackson is a better musician than Stevie Wonder.

[rlsmooth775]

Why is your criteria worth anything?

Explain how Michael Jackson is a better musician than Stevie Wonder.

Michael was a better songwriter,better singer stevie was a better instrumentalist. Can you find a artist who matches the criteria for goat.

[NumberSix]

Michael was a better songwriter,better singer stevie was a better instrumentalist. Can you find a artist who matches the criteria for goat.
What's the criteria?

[rlsmooth775]

What's the criteria?

Its in the op. A music artist who can sing, write music ,
dance (cause it does go along with music right)
High record sales and longevity

[L.Kizzle]

Michael was a better songwriter,better singer stevie was a better instrumentalist. Can you find a artist who matches the criteria for goat.
Have you ever seen Stevie Wonder dance? Way better than Ray Charles and Clarence Carter.

[ThePhantomCreep]

http://files.truemichaeljackson.webnode.cz/200005427-21dcc22d69/19-YEAR-OLD-MICHAEL-PLAYING-GUITAR-michael-jackson-32437304-451-568.jpg

Looks like he's playing the "how the **** do you hold this?" chord with a camera pointing at him.

Here's footage from an artist who actually knew how to play several instruments.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=VgQsVb6uIIfwoASF94CICw&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DrCAk7pJaTYM&ved=0CDYQtwIwCA&usg=AFQjCNHh8Y1FnMJhq57uMHxl9b2qQ5JqEA&sig2=_C0Fiym-dqnd6cMgM1oUEg

[rlsmooth775]

:roll: :roll: no one can find someone who matches my op but mj

[L.Kizzle]

Looks like he's playing the "how the **** do you hold this?" chord with a camera pointing at him.

Here's footage from an artist who actually knew how to play several instruments.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=VgQsVb6uIIfwoASF94CICw&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DrCAk7pJaTYM&ved=0CDYQtwIwCA&usg=AFQjCNHh8Y1FnMJhq57uMHxl9b2qQ5JqEA&sig2=_C0Fiym-dqnd6cMgM1oUEg
Pic is from like 1977, who was he trying to impress at that time?

[ThePhantomCreep]

Michael was a better songwriter ,better singer stevie was a better instrumentalist. Can you find a artist who matches the criteria for goat.

Than Stevie Wonder? Don't make me laugh.

Stevie had a run of artistic brilliance in the 70s than Jacko could only dream of. Dude was composing hits for motown as a teenager.

The term musical genius gets thrown around way too casually, but for Stevie it was apropos.

[L.A.Showtime]

It appears that Michael Jackson definitely has the ability to hold a guitar.

:roll:

[rlsmooth775]

Than Stevie Wonder? Don't make me laugh.

Stevie had a run of artistic brilliance in the 70s than Jacko could only dream of. Dude was composing hits for motown as a teenager.

The term musical genius gets thrown around way too casually, but for Stevie it was apropos.

Michaels songs were better not even close man .

[rlsmooth775]

I guess i win.

[L.Kizzle]

To be real Sly Stone is the king of all this shit. But that's for another discussion.

[rlsmooth775]

To be real Sly Stone is the king of all this shit. But that's for another discussion.

He couldn't dance to the music though.

[L.Kizzle]

He couldn't dance to the music though.
:lol

He could dance though. Seen doing the Funky Chicken and the Hustle on Soul Train.

[rlsmooth775]

:lol

He could dance though. Seen doing the Funky Chicken and the Hustle on Soul Train.

Great show even though Don was a horrible host.

[robert de niro]

He couldn't dance to the music though.
you are so caught up on dancing

[rlsmooth775]

you are so caught up on dancing

It was a sly stone reference.

[L.Kizzle]

you are so caught up on dancing
Was a play on words to a Sly Stone song ...

[ThePhantomCreep]

I thought it was ridiculous how everyone forgot about Michael Jackson's pedophilia after he died, but this overrating of his musical legacy is even worse. Saying MJ > Stevie Wonder as a songwriter is just :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[rlsmooth775]

I thought it was ridiculous how everyone forgot about Michael Jackson's pedophilia after he died, but this overrating of his musical legacy is even worse. Saying MJ > Stevie Wonder as a songwriter is just :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

His songs are better numbers dont lie.

[rlsmooth775]

Who fits the criteria for goat.

[robert de niro]

It was a sly stone reference.

Michael can sing, dance, was a prolific songwriter.

Someone who can sing, dance, write music.

A music artist who can sing, write music ,
dance (cause it does go along with music right)
I will say it again, you are so caught up on dancing

[rlsmooth775]

I will say it again, you are so caught up on dancing

Should i not be :confusedshrug:

[ThePhantomCreep]

His songs are better numbers dont lie.

Numbers say Britney Spears > Miles Davis. Good thing no one with taste uses your logic.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-artists-of-all-time-19691231/bob-dylan-20110420

MJ = did not crack the top 20. Stevie Wonder, and several other black artists, did.

[rlsmooth775]

Numbers say Britney Spears > Miles Davis. Good thing no one with taste uses your logic.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/lists/100-greatest-artists-of-all-time-19691231/bob-dylan-20110420

MJ = did not crack the top 20. Stevie Wonder, and several other black artists, did.

Britney spears comes from a completely different era poor comparison. Who cares about a magazine you're grasping for straws. No afromerican negro is more popular than mj.

[Joyner82reload]

Billie Jean
Thriller
Smooth Criminal
Earth Song
You are not alone
Black and White

ABC
Beat it
[QUOTE=SexSymbol]
Say Say Say
Dirty Diana
Bad
[/B]
Beatles top 3 song are more known than MJ's, but MJ's top 3-15 songs are much more known than the counterparts of the beatles

Nobody outside of Michael Jackson fans recognize those songs. ABC wasn't even Michael Jackson, it was the Jackson 5.

[rlsmooth775]

[QUOTE=SexSymbol]Billie Jean
Thriller
Smooth Criminal
Earth Song
You are not alone
Black and White

ABC
Beat it


Nobody outside of Michael Jackson fans recognize those songs. ABC wasn't even Michael Jackson, it was the Jackson 5.

All of those are #1 hits all have higher view counts than any beatle song

[warriorfan]

All of those are #1 hits all have higher view counts than any beatle song



beatle fans are all old white people that can afford the albums

[9erempiree]

I was under the impression that everyone knew every MJ song but I guess nobody knows tracks like Human Nature.

[Joyner82reload]

[QUOTE=Joyner82reload]

All of those are #1 hits all have higher view counts than any beatle song

Who the hell uses Youtube to listen to music?

[rlsmooth775]

[QUOTE=rlsmooth775]

Who the hell uses Youtube to listen to music?

A lot of people apparently look at the view count

[9erempiree]

[QUOTE=rlsmooth775]

Who the hell uses Youtube to listen to music?

I do.

I make a playlist and have it running.

It is great because I can search what I'm in the mood for.

[Smook A.]

I was under the impression that everyone knew every MJ song but I guess nobody knows tracks like Human Nature.
I know every MJ song. Human Nature is def one of my favs

[ThePhantomCreep]

I know every MJ song. Human Nature is def one of my favs
Human Nature was a top 10 hit from his biggest album. Most people have heard it. Non-singles will illicit blank stares.

[Joyner82reload]

I do.

I make a playlist and have it running.

It is great because I can search what I'm in the mood for.

Have you never heard of Spotify?

[Graviton]

Have you never heard of Spotify?
Is it free? Does it have every song in the world? If not then it doesn't beat youtube.

You can use a converter and your whole youtube playlist on your itunes for free, then drop it on your ipod/iphone.