heat four straight finals to not making playoffs...

[Marv_Albert]

Is somebody gonna try tell me that lebron is not the best player ever and not the MVP, then goes and takes a cavs no playoff team to a red hot favorite to win it all? Lebron GOAT

[Haymaker]

Bron should be the MVP. :applause:

[dubeta]

LeBron is the GOAT and its not close

Jordan leaves - Bulls win the same amount of games without him

Lakers with Kobe - lottery team
Lakers without Kobe- still lottery team no change


Heat and Cavs without LeBron- turn from a superpower to one of the worst teams in the league

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[TheMarkMadsen]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations

[dubeta]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations

Same can be said when you're best player is Kobe



btw how successful has Bosh been as the 'best player' on a playoff team?

[7secondsorless]

James Jones leaves MIA for CLE-- MIA goes from 4 straight Finals to not making the playoffs, CLE becomes one of the top contenders for the title. GOAT.

[warriorfan]

James Jones leaves MIA for CLE-- MIA goes from 4 straight Finals to not making the playoffs, CLE becomes one of the top contenders for the title. GOAT.



:applause:

[Fire Colangelo]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations

Retarded post.

1. Bosh is not the best player on the Heat, Wade is.

2. The Heat were 19-25 when Bosh played, as well as having a shitty record when Wade and Bosh both played.

3. The Heat had Whiteside for most of the season, who's by far the best centre Miami has had for the past 4 years.

4. Also got Dragic for the 2nd half of the season, by far the best PG Miami has had for the past 10 years.

5. Miami actually found a decent replacement for LeBron in Luol Deng.

ALL that, and they're going from a finals appearance to missing the playoffs. Not to mention Wade missed like 30 games last year.

[ArbitraryWater]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations

Acting like Bosh is some runaway best player lmaooo

Wade/Whiteside/Dragic can ALL be taken > Bosh, and should ALL be enough, even WITH injuries, to make the East, the conference you guys shit on every time.... oh, and Deng.

[JebronLames]

Acting like Bosh is some runaway best player lmaooo

Wade/Whiteside/Dragic can ALL be taken > Bosh, and should ALL be enough, even WITH injuries, to make the East, the conference you guys shit on every time.... oh, and Deng.
:bowdown:

[nba_55]

James Jones leaves MIA for CLE-- MIA goes from 4 straight Finals to not making the playoffs, CLE becomes one of the top contenders for the title. GOAT.
http://www.thecoli.com/attachments/camby-gif.75/

[Hey Yo]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations
From Finals to missing playoffs was last done by the 2004-05 Lakers.

Kobe's rookie year as first option.

[Trollsmasher]

Retarded post.

1. Bosh is not the best player on the Heat, Wade is.

2. The Heat were 19-25 when Bosh played, as well as having a shitty record when Wade and Bosh both played.

3. The Heat had Whiteside for most of the season, who's by far the best centre Miami has had for the past 4 years.

4. Also got Dragic for the 2nd half of the season, by far the best PG Miami has had for the past 10 years.

5. Miami actually found a decent replacement for LeBron in Luol Deng.

ALL that, and they're going from a finals appearance to missing the playoffs. Not to mention Wade missed like 30 games last year.
Rat poison

[dannysc305]

Right lets all pretend LeBron was the sole cause of this collapse.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Retarded post.

1. Bosh is not the best player on the Heat, Wade is. Bosh and Wade have missed a combined 60 games, hard to make the playoffs when your two best players miss 60 games.

2. The Heat were 19-25 when Bosh played, as well as having a shitty record when Wade and Bosh both played. Bosh and Wade played 662 minutes together which was the 11th most on the team.. behind Bosh & Cole.. a guy the HEAT traded away before the trade deadline

3. The Heat had Whiteside for most of the season, who's by far the best centre Miami has had for the past 4 years. He started 30 games, played 46 :lol that's not most of the season and he's only getting 23 mpg.

4. Also got Dragic for the 2nd half of the season, by far the best PG Miami has had for the past 10 years. Dragic's played 24 games during a period where the HEAT have been so devastated by injuries that they had to call a retired shooting guard to come play PF for them :roll:

5. Miami actually found a decent replacement for LeBron in Luol Deng. Luol Deng + Mcrob would have been a decent replacement for bran.

ALL that, and they're going from a finals appearance to missing the playoffs. Not to mention Wade missed like 30 games last year. And if Bran would have missed 40 games last year they would have been in a bad position also

...

[mehyaM24]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations
lebron's in cleveland now, brah

but i agree - his impact on the game & league is something you cannot measure with stats - or even put into words. legend.

[dannysc305]

Acting like Bosh is some runaway best player lmaooo

Wade/Whiteside/Dragic can ALL be taken > Bosh, and should ALL be enough, even WITH injuries, to make the East, the conference you guys shit on every time.... oh, and Deng.

There's this thing called a bench that is non existent in Miami.

Ours is made up of Birdman, Chalmers, and 3 d league/overseas players Michael Beasley, James Ennis, Tyler Johnson

[TheMarkMadsen]

Acting like Bosh is some runaway best player lmaooo

Wade/Whiteside/Dragic can ALL be taken > Bosh, and should ALL be enough, even WITH injuries, to make the East, the conference you guys shit on every time.... oh, and Deng.


That 3 man duo has played 300 minutes together..

:roll: :roll:


and yes, losing your 21/7 big man for 40 games is going to greatly affect your playoff chances especially when your next best player missed 20, and your 3rd best player missed 40 games and has only started for 30 of them while getting 23 mpg

too easy..

[dubeta]

That 3 man duo has played 300 minutes together..

:roll: :roll:


and yes, losing your 21/7 big man for 40 games is going to greatly affect your playoff chances especially when your next best player missed 20, and your 3rd best player missed 40 games and has only started for 30 of them while getting 23 mpg

too easy..

Outside of Bosh, Heat players have all been missing games the last 4 years. Why give them a pass for this specific year, especially when they added key players like Dragic and Whiteside?

[TheMarkMadsen]

Outside of Bosh, Heat players have all been missing games the last 4 years. Why give them a pass for this specific year, especially when they added key players like Dragic and Whiteside?

the past 4 years the 2 out 3 of the HEAT's best players have played for majority of the season, as you just said..


this year, 0/3 of the HEAT's best players have played majority of the season

[Beastmode88]

father time always wins. I see why lebron jumped shipped. Just goes to show lebron is all about playing with the best players not building.

[ArbitraryWater]

I know Madsen is trolling, but I think we all know 60 games from Wade (54 last year), 46 games from Whiteside, 70 games from Deng, AND 24 games from Dragic, AND 44 games from Bosh (more than half the season), is more than enough to make the playoffs in the East... that's saying it kind.

Yes, even a pitful person like Madsen who is doing heavy damage control trying to deny LeBron's impact (lmao) can admit this.

[dubeta]

father time always wins. I see why lebron jumped shipped. Just goes to show lebron is all about playing with the best players not building.

yes so he joins a 33 win team :rolleyes:

Troll :facepalm

[dubeta]

I know Madsen is trolling, but I think we all know 60 games from Wade (54 last year), 46 games from Whiteside, 70 games from Deng, AND 24 games from Dragic, AND 44 games from Bosh (more than half the season), is more than enough to make the playoffs in the East... that's saying it kind.

Yes, even a pitful person like Madsen who is doing heavy damage control trying to deny LeBron's impact (lmao) can admit this.

This is Shaq leaving L.A in 2004 all over again.

Shaq leaves the Lakers, and Kobe misses the playoffs the next season, LeBron leaves Miami, and Wade misses the playoffs.


Its a a psychological thing, Madsen defending the Heat is due to him subconsciously defending Kobe missing the playoffs when Shaq left in 2004, and using that to apply to the Heats season.

[oh the horror]

Same can be said when you're best player is Kobe



btw how successful has Bosh been as the 'best player' on a playoff team?


Nice redirection of the original point.



They haven't had Bosh half their season. It was over for them at that point to make a considerable playoff run

[oh the horror]

I know Madsen is trolling, but I think we all know 60 games from Wade (54 last year), 46 games from Whiteside, 70 games from Deng, AND 24 games from Dragic, AND 44 games from Bosh (more than half the season), is more than enough to make the playoffs in the East... that's saying it kind.

Yes, even a pitful person like Madsen who is doing heavy damage control trying to deny LeBron's impact (lmao) can admit this.




Well obviously it's not since they're going to miss the playoffs dude. Huh??

[COnDEMnED]

This is Shaq leaving L.A in 2004 all over again.

Shaq leaves the Lakers, and Kobe misses the playoffs the next season, LeBron leaves Miami, and Wade misses the playoffs.


Its a a psychological thing, Madsen defending the Heat is due to him subconsciously defending Kobe missing the playoffs when Shaq left in 2004, and using that to apply to the Heats season.
How the **** did you make that jump...?

Psycho.

[Beastmode88]

yes so he joins a 33 win team :rolleyes:

Troll :facepalm

This just proves you're an idiot. How many same players do the cavs have this year than last. Please enlighten me cavs fan.

[dubeta]

This just proves you're an idiot. How many same players do the cavs have this year than last. Please enlighten me cavs fan.

They lost a lot of key players from last year

Jarret Jack, Spencer Hawes,Dion Waiters, Varejao who is injured, the Cavs 2013-2014 had many key pieces they no longer have.

[Bigsmoke]

the past 4 years the 2 out 3 of the HEAT's best players have played for majority of the season, as you just said..


this year, 0/3 of the HEAT's best players have played majority of the season


The Heat were up and now all year.


Just admit you're trying your best to hide LeBron impact on that team and STFU

[DaSeba5]

Just too many injuries to overcome. We're better off getting the lottery pick and getting everyone back healthy next year.

[tpols]

I know Madsen is trolling, but I think we all know 60 games from Wade (54 last year), 46 games from Whiteside, 70 games from Deng, AND 24 games from Dragic, AND 44 games from Bosh (more than half the season), is more than enough to make the playoffs in the East... that's saying it kind.

Yes, even a pitful person like Madsen who is doing heavy damage control trying to deny LeBron's impact (lmao) can admit this.

No... its not since they all played at different times. It was literally a carousel of guys jumping on at different intervals.

Bosh beasting to start the season but then almost literally dying halfway through. Wade coming in and out.. Whiteside emerging halfway but constantly getting injured and doing stupid shit to even get suspended on key runs.. Dragic playing 20 something games.. they have never had a consistent group out there.

If it was Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside for a combined ~70 games thats a different story.. but that lineup has like 10 minutes played together.

[DaSeba5]

No... its not since they all played at different times. It was literally a carousel of guys jumping on at different intervals.

Bosh beasting to start the season but then almost literally dying halfway through. Wade coming in and out.. Whiteside emerging halfway but constantly getting injured and doing stupid shit to even get suspended on key runs.. Dragic playing 20 something games.. they have never had a consistent group out there.

If it was Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside for a combined ~70 games thats a different story.. but that lineup has like 10 minutes played together.

This.

[navy]

No... its not since they all played at different times. It was literally a carousel of guys jumping on at different intervals.

Bosh beasting to start the season but then almost literally dying halfway through. Wade coming in and out.. Whiteside emerging halfway but constantly getting injured and doing stupid shit to even get suspended on key runs.. Dragic playing 20 something games.. they have never had a consistent group out there.

If it was Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside for a combined ~70 games thats a different story.. but that lineup has like 10 minutes played together.
Bosh was beasting to start the season? Dat sample size :biggums:

Bruh, Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside wasnt even suppose to be the intended lineup. They traded for Dragic midseason and found Whiteside out of nowhere.

If this team had Chalmers/Wade/Deng/Bosh/McRoberts like it was suppose to this team would have been in the same position and would have missed the playoffs.

[jlip]

Why is some variation of this thread made everyday?

[DonDadda59]

NBA TV had a graphic that said Miami had 30 different starting lineups this year. How is that even possible? :wtf:

And the Heat had a tendency to outright collapse in the second half of games. They lost 6 games where they had at least a 15 point lead at some point. That's inexcusable, regardless of health. If they win those games, they're in the playoffs comfortably.

Oh well, better to shut everyone down and focus on getting everyone healthy for next season. On paper they have a team that should be a 6-8 seed at least next year, especially if they draft well.

[Bigsmoke]

This just proves you're an idiot. How many same players do the cavs have this year than last. Please enlighten me cavs fan.

If anything you're the idiot.

LeBron makes the teams he play for look stacked because he is on the roster.

[Rose'sACL]

celtics, nets, bucks and bulls are all making the playoffs. there is no excuse for celtics having different very young players in their roster plus so many trades. there is no excuse for bucks trading and losing so many games and still making the playoffs. there is not excuse for nets who had their best player miss most of the season plus the fact that their best player was supposed to be williams.
you have to be biased if you use injuries as an excuse for not making the playoffs when nets and celtics are in it with wade playing more games than last year plus having bosh for more than 40 games plus getting whiteside out of nowhere.
give lebron birdman, whiteside, bosh(40 games) and dragic(30 games) and he is making the 6th seed in the current east if not better even 2 years from now even if their bench sucks.

[FLDFSU]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations


But we have gone from contending to not even making the playoffs "in the worst conference of all time."

We are not trying to win the East, we are merely trying to be one of the top 1/2.

Surely, the most stacked team of all time relative to competition (the East) should still be able to finish in the top 1/2 even with Bosh missing 40 games (but Wade playing 60, with Deng, Dragic, and an actual center)

[FLDFSU]

No... its not since they all played at different times. It was literally a carousel of guys jumping on at different intervals.

Bosh beasting to start the season but then almost literally dying halfway through. Wade coming in and out.. Whiteside emerging halfway but constantly getting injured and doing stupid shit to even get suspended on key runs.. Dragic playing 20 something games.. they have never had a consistent group out there.

If it was Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside for a combined ~70 games thats a different story.. but that lineup has like 10 minutes played together.

"The Miami Heat are the most stacked team of all time relative to competition"
---Tpols not one year ago

"The East is one of the weakest conferences of all time"
---Tpols not one year ago

[AkronAngel]

People like to point towards injuries, but the Heat replaced LeBron with other borderline all-stars (Dragic/Deng) and still failed.

[J Shuttlesworth]

Even though they had health problems, they should have still been making the playoffs. Dragic, Wade, Deng, and Whiteside have played the majority of games since they got Dragic. Before they made the trade, they were an 8 seed. Wade has only missed a couple of games since then. They should be in it if they really wanted it. They lost huge games to Toronto, Indy, and then blew the lead to Chicago. There really are no excuses to not making the playoffs in the East

[Lebron23]

Lebron makes his team and coach better.

[Ancient Legend]

People like to point towards injuries, but the Heat replaced LeBron with other borderline all-stars (Dragic/Deng) and still failed.

Exactly, they couldn't even get the #8 spot in the pathetic EAST. Heck if they went 41-41 they would probably have been the #6 seed.

[Lebron23]

"The Miami Heat are the most stacked team of all time relative to competition"
---Tpols not one year ago

"The East is one of the weakest conferences of all time"
---Tpols not one year ago


The guy is Bipolar. He loves Kobe, and he will always be a biased poster.

[aj1987]

NBA TV had a graphic that said Miami had 30 different starting lineups this year. How is that even possible? :wtf:

And the Heat had a tendency to outright collapse in the second half of games. They lost 6 games where they had at least a 15 point lead at some point. That's inexcusable, regardless of health. If they win those games, they're in the playoffs comfortably.

Oh well, better to shut everyone down and focus on getting everyone healthy for next season. On paper they have a team that should be a 6-8 seed at least next year, especially if they draft well.
Actually they had a double digit lead with a quarter or just over a quarter to go in 16 games.

[DonDadda59]

Actually they had a double digit lead with a quarter or just over a quarter to go in 16 games.

Choke artists :facepalm

Despite all the chaos in the lineup, you really can't excuse that. They just couldn't seal the deal in games they had control of. Lost a ton of games they had no business losing.

[Young X]

The game they lost at the buzzer in Milwaukee and the last game against Chicago is what really killed them. There's no way they should've lost those games. :facepalm

Shame cuz I wanted to see them vs. Cleveland in the playoffs. Oh well.

[OnFire]

NBA TV had a graphic that said Miami had 30 different starting lineups this year. How is that even possible? :wtf:

And the Heat had a tendency to outright collapse in the second half of games. They lost 6 games where they had at least a 15 point lead at some point. That's inexcusable, regardless of health. If they win those games, they're in the playoffs comfortably.

Oh well, better to shut everyone down and focus on getting everyone healthy for next season. On paper they have a team that should be a 6-8 seed at least next year, especially if they draft well.

Its because half the team is D-League quality. I mean the Heat have games where the Henry Bill Walker was the starting PF for chrissakes...

[SouBeachTalents]

Even with injuries, it's really tough to spin this for LeBron haters. The Heat going from the Finals to missing the playoffs in the East, where 38 wins looks like it'll be enough to make the postseason, speaks volumes to LeBron's impact.

[dubeta]

Even with injuries, it's really tough to spin this for LeBron haters. The Heat going from the Finals to missing the playoffs in the East, where 38 wins looks like it'll be enough to make the postseason, speaks volumes to LeBron's impact.

Yup, and thats before even getting into the additions of Dragic, Whiteside, McRoberts, Deng, Granger. The Heat replaced LeBron with a poor mans 'Dream Team' in compensation.

[aj1987]

Choke artists :facepalm

Despite all the chaos in the lineup, you really can't excuse that. They just couldn't seal the deal in games they had control of. Lost a ton of games they had no business losing.
Spo really deserves a lot of that blame. Why the **** would you put Wade on minute restrictions when your team is losing? Dude's rotations are messed up. He sat Wade right after the Heat got a decent lead. The rest of the scrubtastic team blew nice leads. Seriously though, why would a coach sit his best player when he's on fire and making everything? That usually took him off rhythm and he played mediocre after being put back in.

Another thing, Wade has been taking a shit ton of mid-range jumpers. He has been making them at a pretty decent rate (slightly over the league average), but it's the most inefficient shot on the court. Dude kept forcing shit when it wasn't working. Bad judgement basically. Either than or he knows that he can't drive and finish efficiently anymore.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Lol at the "injuries" excuse. Bosh+Dragic combine for a pretty full season and Dwyane played more games this year than last. Let's not forget that they also added Whiteside, and Deng - Guys who both would have been the 4th best players on last year's team. This is ignoring McRoberts (injured most but not all year), and Napier (not that good).

This team is/was simply not that good. People calling them "stacked" last year - or at any point since 2011 - were morons. Carried by LeBron.

[ImKobe]

Injuries all season...it isn't worth comparing.

[LEFT4DEAD]

WTF are you idiots trying to hide Lebrons impact saying the Heat were plagued by injuries???
We are not talking not making the FINALS or ECF here. We are talking about not making the freaking 8th seed in pathetic EAST with no Lebron.

This season should put Lebron in Top 3 impact wise all time just with the Heat' missing the playoffs let alone him leading the pathetic Cavs to the 2nd seed and being among the favourites to win it all.

[VengefulAngel]

WTF are you idiots trying to hide Lebrons impact saying the Heat were plagued by injuries???
We are not talking not making the FINALS or ECF here. We are talking about not making the freaking 8th seed in pathetic EAST with no Lebron.

This season should put Lebron in Top 3 impact wise all time just with the Heat' missing the playoffs let alone him leading the pathetic Cavs to the 2nd seed and being among the favourites to win it all.

Anyone who doubts Lebron's impact doesn't know basketball, but there are mitigating circumstances behinds our poor season, that can't be ignored either.

[Nash]

just adds to lebrons legacy

funny thing is, remove deng, dragic, whiteside from the team and add only lebron(basically last few years team) and ya'll would instead expect the team to make the finals or ecf again. :lol

[ImKobe]

Lol at the "injuries" excuse. Bosh+Dragic combine for a pretty full season and Dwyane played more games this year than last. Let's not forget that they also added Whiteside, and Deng - Guys who both would have been the 4th best players on last year's team. This is ignoring McRoberts (injured most but not all year), and Napier (not that good).

lol @ combined. Bosh was putting up big numbers and keeping the team afloat the first half of the season, before he got injured the first time, Dragic is a nice piece but he was traded there at the deadline..Wade been in and out of line-ups, Whiteside had a nice stretch, but he isn't consistent enough and his defense is overrated.

Deng and Chalmers are the only players that played 70+ games for Miami this season...scrubs like Henry Walker, Shawne Williams and Beasley have been getting 20+ minutes a game, not to mention that Chalmers has been complete ass and has played the most games and is right behind Deng in minutes.

Had Dragic been there from the start, they'd probably be in the Playoffs right now.

It was all good until Wade got fatigued, 21\3\3 with 3 TOs on 43\33\78 shooting in their last 10 games with Wade, 2-8 record.

[dubeta]

just adds to lebrons legacy

funny thing is, remove deng, dragic, whiteside from the team and add only lebron(basically last few years team) and ya'll would instead expect the team to make the finals or ecf again. :lol

Yup, if heat didnt make those additions they would be fighting the knicks for worst team in the east

So much for the "Most Stacked Team in NBA History"

[RoundMoundOfReb]

lol @ combined. Bosh was putting up big numbers and keeping the team afloat the first half of the season, before he got injured the first time, Dragic is a nice piece but he was traded there at the deadline..Wade been in and out of line-ups, Whiteside had a nice stretch, but he isn't consistent enough and his defense is overrated.
.


They were below .500 with Bosh playing and below .500 with Bosh and Wade playing. Keeping them afloat? From NBA finals to not drowning..:applause:

[dubeta]

LOL @ anyone acting like Bosh can carry a team into the playoffs and wouldve been a difference

Can anyone tell me how successfully Bosh was at doing that as a 1st option? :oldlol:


His record of carrying a team into the playoffs is a 2/7, ironically same as Kobe's FMVP ratio

[ImKobe]

They were below .500 with Bosh playing and below .500 with Bosh and Wade playing. Keeping them afloat? From NBA finals to not drowning..:applause:

So, when you lose the 2nd best player in the game, your team is not going to get worse, especially when the team has gone through 4 straight deep Playoff runs? And the first 15 games of the season, Cleveland and Miami had the same record with Wade missing 7 of those games. :confusedshrug:

[Rose'sACL]

So, when you lose the 2nd best player in the game, your team is not going to get worse, especially when the team has gone through 4 straight deep Playoff runs? And the first 15 games of the season, Cleveland and Miami had the same record with Wade missing 7 of those games. :confusedshrug:
No one is talking about making the finals or even ECF. We are talking about making the 8th seed. When Celtics and nets are making the playoffs, you really shouldn't have any excuse to miss the playoffs given that wade played more games this season than last season.

[masonanddixon]

I wonder if the fact that all the free agents they got to replace Lebron succumbed to injury and the Heat ended up starting 2 Dleaguers had anything to do with it? And then lebron cherrypicking two established stars plus elite role players has anything to do with Cleveland's success?

[StephHamann]

James Jones leaves MIA for CLE-- MIA goes from 4 straight Finals to not making the playoffs, CLE becomes one of the top contenders for the title. GOAT.
http://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gif























































































































http://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gifhttp://i.imgur.com/5gPbxQE.gif

[Trollsmasher]

Also, let's not act like the injuries happened in a vacuum. They are mostly a result of the stress caused by the load Lebron carried by himself for the last 4 years that had to be shared by other Miami players this season

Let us recapitulate - that load:
almost killed Bosh
crippled McBob 15 games in
caused minor injuries left and right in every game

And they came nowhere close to actually at least somehow succeeding in their goal to share Lebron's load.

In retrospect LeBron's achievemets look even more amazing. A herculean effort in the last 4 years as I have already said before.

[nashwade]

As a Heat fan I must say I see the full impact of the Lebron effect this season.

[Cali Syndicate]

Bosh was beasting to start the season? Dat sample size :biggums:

Bruh, Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside wasnt even suppose to be the intended lineup. They traded for Dragic midseason and found Whiteside out of nowhere.

If this team had Chalmers/Wade/Deng/Bosh/McRoberts like it was suppose to this team would have been in the same position and would have missed the playoffs.

If this lineup was at all remotely healthy throughout the season, how would they be in the same position the heat are now?

[Cali Syndicate]

Lol at the "injuries" excuse. Bosh+Dragic combine for a pretty full season and Dwyane played more games this year than last. Let's not forget that they also added Whiteside, and Deng - Guys who both would have been the 4th best players on last year's team. This is ignoring McRoberts (injured most but not all year), and Napier (not that good).

This team is/was simply not that good. People calling them "stacked" last year - or at any point since 2011 - were morons. Carried by LeBron.

Top heavy talent with a much deeper bench full of solid role players. This season, both wade and bosh have played less than half the season together and their bench mainly consists of 12th man rotation players.

[Cali Syndicate]

Lebron makes his team and coach better.

Lebron will make any team and coach look better. This is obvious. But Lebron leaving is not directly correlative to the heats downfall this season.

[tpols]

Bosh was beasting to start the season? Dat sample size :biggums:

Bruh, Dragic/Wade/Deng/Bosh/Whiteside wasnt even suppose to be the intended lineup. They traded for Dragic midseason and found Whiteside out of nowhere.

If this team had Chalmers/Wade/Deng/Bosh/McRoberts like it was suppose to this team would have been in the same position and would have missed the playoffs.


huh? That lineup barely played together.. and even with wade and bosh alternating going in and out, they were in the playoffs back in early mid season record wise. So yea.. even if that was the lineup, they wouldve made it if not for a string of major season ending injuries.


The wierd thing for me is why is there no mention of Battier, Mike Miller, and Ray Allen gone? Those guys were like the lifeblood of the heats explosive shooting offense. Battier was also their best man defender and regularly given the tough assignments. But no mention of them leaving and their minutes being taken up by guys like James Ennis, who cant shoot worth shit comparatively, or that small white dude i dont even know his name. tyler something lol..



This is just another case of a bullshit comparison.. a false equivalency. Now apparently the Wade and Bosh that bran teamed up with in 2010 is being graded on how they fared in a injury riddle 2015 season. Cant make this shit up smh

[VengefulAngel]

For the first time ever I read a post by dubeta and actually agreed. :oldlol:

[Nash]

Lebron will make any team and coach look better. This is obvious. But Lebron leaving is not directly correlative to the heats downfall this season.
oh yes it is, put lebron back in and they would never miss the playoffs. You could even take Deng, Dragic and Whiteside out, they'd still make the playoffs.

Hell, they made the nba finals without Bosh ffs. Pretty sure they'd make 38 wins to make the playoffs in the east.

[jzek]

1. Bosh is not the best player on the Heat, Wade is.


Huh? I thought ISH has already decided that Dragic is the Heat's best player and that Wade should be the 6th man? :confusedshrug:

[iamgine]

NBA TV had a graphic that said Miami had 30 different starting lineups this year. How is that even possible? :wtf:

That's not strange for a team with many injuries/new players.

For example, the 76ers has 39 starting lineups. Knicks has 36.

[Hey Yo]

huh? That lineup barely played together.. and even with wade and bosh alternating going in and out, they were in the playoffs back in early mid season record wise. So yea.. even if that was the lineup, they wouldve made it if not for a string of major season ending injuries.


The wierd thing for me is why is there no mention of Battier, Mike Miller, and Ray Allen gone? Those guys were like the lifeblood of the heats explosive shooting offense. Battier was also their best man defender and regularly given the tough assignments. But no mention of them leaving and their minutes being taken up by guys like James Ennis, who cant shoot worth shit comparatively, or that small white dude i dont even know his name. tyler something lol..


This is just another case of a bullshit comparison.. a false equivalency. Now apparently the Wade and Bosh that bran teamed up with in 2010 is being graded on how they fared in a injury riddle 2015 season. Cant make this shit up smh
Miller wasn't even on the team last season. 39yr old Ray Allen shot his worst % from 3 last year since 2010. Battier is 36yrs old and surely his defense wasn't going to get better nor was his 4ppg in 20mp on offense.

You're praising guys who you would call scrubs if they played with Kobe.

[ArbitraryWater]

Well obviously it's not since they're going to miss the playoffs dude. Huh??

What the hell does this mean? Thats exactly WHY its a team LeBron carried. Admit it, pathetico. Your shit's already been debunked by Blaze.

You're too simplistic "omfg Bosh otherwise"

They were below .500 with Bosh playing and below .500 with Bosh and Wade playing.


"The Miami Heat are the most stacked team of all time relative to competition"
---Tpols not one year ago

"The East is one of the weakest conferences of all time"
---Tpols not one year ago

lol

[97 bulls]

Just to give this some scale. The Bulls projected starting lineup once the season began Rose, Butler, Noah, Gasol, Dunkeavy. Have only played 21 games together counting last night. And they still have the third best record in the East.

Injuries are no excuse

[nba_55]

"The Miami Heat are the most stacked team of all time relative to competition"
---Tpols not one year ago

"The East is one of the weakest conferences of all time"
---Tpols not one year ago

It's a known fact that Tpols is the biggest flip flopper in this forum, nothing new in here.

[navy]

huh? That lineup barely played together.. and even with wade and bosh alternating going in and out, they were in the playoffs back in early mid season record wise. So yea.. even if that was the lineup, they wouldve made it if not for a string of major season ending injuries.


The wierd thing for me is why is there no mention of Battier, Mike Miller, and Ray Allen gone? Those guys were like the lifeblood of the heats explosive shooting offense. Battier was also their best man defender and regularly given the tough assignments. But no mention of them leaving and their minutes being taken up by guys like James Ennis, who cant shoot worth shit comparatively, or that small white dude i dont even know his name. tyler something lol..


This is just another case of a bullshit comparison.. a false equivalency. Now apparently the Wade and Bosh that bran teamed up with in 2010 is being graded on how they fared in a injury riddle 2015 season. Cant make this shit up smh
That lineup wasnt going to win anything. Terrible point guard play and terrible interior rebounding/defense. If you watched the Heat, which im sure you caught like one or two games max you would know that. Hassan Whiteside was a god send to this team to be honest. Yet Spolestra still cant find a way to win games with him dominating and Riley bringing in Goran Dragic.

Battier, Ray Allen, and Miller? lol, nice try. Mike Miller was on the Grizzlies last year. Battier was literally finished on offense and defense. Ray Allen had the worst season of his career and opted to not return playing. In fact yes, the young blood the Heat currently have is better than those guys.

Implying that had they fared well you wouldnt have made the opposite of this thread.


If this lineup was at all remotely healthy throughout the season, how would they be in the same position the heat are now?
Watch the games sometime. Chalmers at point guard and Bosh at center dont work. No surprise they went and got Whiteside and Dragic.

[nba_55]

Jabari Parker missed half of the season, Larry Sanders quit on the team, Bucks still making the playoffs.
Paul George missed almost the whole season and Pacers are still fighting for the playoffs.
Bulls had many injuries during the season and they are still 3rd seed.
Wade played more than last year.


NO EXCUSES!

[coin24]

They're probably burnt out from so much ball..
4 straight finals is a lot, bran left and joined a loaded young team

[Hey Yo]

They're probably burnt out from so much ball..
4 straight finals is a lot, bran left and joined a loaded young team
Yep, I remember you saying that right after last seasons finals loss.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Kobe fan going from hating the Heat to defending them....:oldlol:

[tpols]

That lineup wasnt going to win anything. Terrible point guard play and terrible interior rebounding/defense. If you watched the Heat, which im sure you caught like one or two games max you would know that. Hassan Whiteside was a god send to this team to be honest. Yet Spolestra still cant find a way to win games with him dominating and Riley bringing in Goran Dragic.

Battier, Ray Allen, and Miller? lol, nice try. Mike Miller was on the Grizzlies last year. Battier was literally finished on offense and defense. Ray Allen had the worst season of his career and opted to not return playing. In fact yes, the young blood the Heat currently have is better than those guys.

Implying that had they fared well you wouldnt have made the opposite of this thread.c.

That lineup was in the playoffs to start the season record wise.. minus mcbob. So as far as winning anything.. obviously they wouldnt win a ring or anything but they for sure wouldve been a mid level playoff team out east. Once wade started to have those hammy issues mid season and miss chunks of games at a time thats when the load became to much for bosh and his play went south.. and then the stress from carrying scrubs gave him double blood clots and almost killed him.. but Hey! Thats no biggie! That happened every year he played with Lebron anyways.

As far as Ray allen/Mike Miller/Battier goes.. obviously if their 40 year current versions were on the team it wouldnt have helped as much as they did when they were younger over the course of 2011-2013.. the point is if you put say 2012 or 2013 Battier and Mike Miller on this current heat team like bron had on his... that would have helped TREMENDOUSLY. The Heats biggest problem is a lack of spacing. This year they are 24th in 3pt%.. when every other year they had pretty damn good shooting. Its something that should definitely be noted if you want to make any type of fair comparison.



And I actually watched damn near every heat game that was nationally televised this year because I had both Wade and Whiteside on my fanatasy squad.. Ive most likely watched even more than yourself.

[Hey Yo]

tpols, we're comparing this year to LAST YEAR, not 2012 and 13

[navy]

That lineup was in the playoffs to start the season record wise.. minus mcbob. So as far as winning anything.. obviously they wouldnt win a ring or anything but they for sure wouldve been a mid level playoff team out east. Once wade started to have those hammy issues mid season and miss chunks of games at a time thats when the load became to much for bosh and his play went south.. and then the stress from carrying scrubs gave him double blood clots and almost killed him.. but Hey! Thats no biggie! That happened every year he played with Lebron anyways.

As far as Ray allen/Mike Miller/Battier goes.. obviously if their 40 year current versions were on the team it wouldnt have helped as much as they did when they were younger over the course of 2011-2013.. the point is if you put say 2012 or 2013 Battier and Mike Miller on this current heat team like bron had on his... that would have helped TREMENDOUSLY. The Heats biggest problem is a lack of spacing. This year they are 24th in 3pt%.. when every other year they had pretty damn good shooting. Its something that should definitely be noted if you want to make any type of fair comparison.



And I actually watched damn near every heat game that was nationally televised this year because I had both Wade and Whiteside on my fanatasy squad.. Ive most likely watched even more than yourself.
What do you mean in the playoffs record wise? They started the season 5-5 after 10 games, 9-11 after 20. What sample size are you using? :oldlol: I mean yeah if you consider a downward trend from .500, noteworthy. GO ahead. Bosh's play was pretty consistent throughout the year. Typical Chris Bosh kinda stuff. Unless you think 3 games is enough for an mvp case. Although I think I saw that thread somewhere...

You were the one that brought them up lol thinking that they were relevant last year until you got called out on it. Im sure you didnt know that Battier wasnt really any good in 2013 either and that Spolestra never really played Mike Miller until the playoffs sporadically. But hey, let's mention them again and try different years this time. yeah, it should also be noted that lebron was easily the one creating the open threes. Which is why you see such a regression in Mario Chalmers who inexplicably cant even be called a good three point shooter anymore.

Every game nationally televised? Dat sample size once again. lol thinking that's a relevant number of games or that you can claim to watch more than someone else because you've seen 15 or less games. :roll:

[aj1987]

tpols, we're comparing this year to LAST YEAR, not 2012 and 13
Wade is a year older. Replaced the best player in the world with a declining Deng (massive decline). Signed a bunch of guys from the D-League. Mario Chalmers forgot how to shoot. Lost an elite 3pt shooter in Allen. Birdman is a year older. Lost Battier and Rashard as well (who could shoot the 3).

[nba_55]

That lineup was in the playoffs to start the season record wise.. minus mcbob. So as far as winning anything.. obviously they wouldnt win a ring or anything but they for sure wouldve been a mid level playoff team out east. Once wade started to have those hammy issues mid season and miss chunks of games at a time thats when the load became to much for bosh and his play went south.. and then the stress from carrying scrubs gave him double blood clots and almost killed him.. but Hey! Thats no biggie! That happened every year he played with Lebron anyways.

As far as Ray allen/Mike Miller/Battier goes.. obviously if their 40 year current versions were on the team it wouldnt have helped as much as they did when they were younger over the course of 2011-2013.. the point is if you put say 2012 or 2013 Battier and Mike Miller on this current heat team like bron had on his... that would have helped TREMENDOUSLY. The Heats biggest problem is a lack of spacing. This year they are 24th in 3pt%.. when every other year they had pretty damn good shooting. Its something that should definitely be noted if you want to make any type of fair comparison.



And I actually watched damn near every heat game that was nationally televised this year because I had both Wade and Whiteside on my fanatasy squad.. Ive most likely watched even more than yourself.

They went from .364% ( last year) 3pt to .334%. (this year). Not a huge difference if you take away Lebron's 3pts stats from last year's numbers.

[nba_55]

Wade is a year older. Replaced the best player in the world with a declining Deng (massive decline). Signed a bunch of guys from the D-League. Mario Chalmers forgot how to shoot. Lost an elite 3pt shooter in Allen. Birdman is a year older. Lost Battier and Rashard as well (who could shoot the 3).

Wade is putting similar numbers and has played more games this year. Battier wasn't even in the rotation by the end of the year. He sucked that much.

[Real14]

when your best player misses 40 games its tough to have playoff expectations
end thread.

[aj1987]

Wade is putting similar numbers and has played more games this year. Battier wasn't even in the rotation by the end of the year. He sucked that much.
He could still defend. Rashard took his place because he was making his 3's. Oh, and Battier would've probably been the best or 2nd best 3pt shooter on the Heat.

[nba_55]

He could still defend. Rashard took his place because he was making his 3's. Oh, and Battier would've probably been the best or 2nd best 3pt shooter on the Heat.

So Battier was taken out of rotation because he couldn't make 3s and now, you are telling me that he would help Heat this year because he would probably be their best 3pt shooter? :facepalm Think before writing dumb, stupid shit.

[Hey Yo]

Wade is a year older. Replaced the best player in the world with a declining Deng (massive decline). Signed a bunch of guys from the D-League. Mario Chalmers forgot how to shoot. Lost an elite 3pt shooter in Allen. Birdman is a year older. Lost Battier and Rashard as well (who could shoot the 3).
Allen had his worst 3pt shooting % last year since 2010 (37%). He might have scored some points but would provide nothing on defense.

Lewis is 35 and streaky. He may be hot one game and go 0'fer for the next 6.

[97 bulls]

I don't see why this is an argument. Even with both Bosh and Wade the Heat had an under 500 record. And again, if Wade is so a depth at dragging untalented players, why are the Heat so bad? All teams incur injuries. Some more than others but theyre still in the Hunt. Look at Indiana. Their best player has missed the whole season, and theyve had a plethora of injuries. They in the playoff race ahead of the Heat. As has been mentioned the Buck, and the Bulls.

[FLDFSU]

So, when you lose the 2nd best player in the game, your team is not going to get worse, especially when the team has gone through 4 straight deep Playoff runs? And the first 15 games of the season, Cleveland and Miami had the same record with Wade missing 7 of those games. :confusedshrug:

But you guys were calling Lebron a cancer that makes his team worse. So yes, I did think the Heat would get better once Lebron ball left.

[aj1987]

So Battier was taken out of rotation because he couldn't make 3s and now, you are telling me that he would help Heat this year because he would probably be their best 3pt shooter? :facepalm Think before writing dumb, stupid shit.
Rashard was shooting better than him after a slow start, ****ing moron. Not to mention Miami's 3pt shooters SUCK. Battier would've been better than Walker.


Allen had his worst 3pt shooting % last year since 2010 (37%). He might have scored some points but would provide nothing on defense.
Dude shot 38% for the 3. Miami as a team shoots 33%.

[FLDFSU]

Jabari Parker missed half of the season, Larry Sanders quit on the team, Bucks still making the playoffs.
Paul George missed almost the whole season and Pacers are still fighting for the playoffs.
Bulls had many injuries during the season and they are still 3rd seed.
Wade played more than last year.


NO EXCUSES!

:applause: As a Heat fan there is ZERO excuse for this. Boston, the Nets, and the Pacers, who lost Paul George are all of ahead of us.

And please keep in mind, this is the same Heat coaching staff. There is zero excuses for not being the 8th seed in the "weak" East.

[greatest-ever]

I don't see why this is an argument. Even with both Bosh and Wade the Heat had an under 500 record. And again, if Wade is so a depth at dragging untalented players, why are the Heat so bad? All teams incur injuries. Some more than others but theyre still in the Hunt. Look at Indiana. Their best player has missed the whole season, and theyve had a plethora of injuries. They in the playoff race ahead of the Heat. As has been mentioned the Buck, and the Bulls.
Why do you keep judging wade's greatness by using a season where he is 33 and past his prime? You are really reaching here. A healthy Prime wade took 2 scrub squads to the playoffs in 09 and 2010. Those teams were horrible and worse than the cast he has now. Only idiots define a player's legacy by one past prime season. It's arbitrary and disingenuous.

[nba_55]

Rashard was shooting better than him after a slow start, ****ing moron. Not to mention Miami's 3pt shooters SUCK. Battier would've been better than Walker.


Dude shot 38% for the 3. Miami as a team shoots 33%.

With Lebron setting him up, Battier was at .348 % from 3 last year ( most of his 3s were wide open). This year, 1 year older and without Lebron, he would probably be 33% or worse. Stop saying dumb crap. Battier sucked last year and he would suck even more this year.

[nba_55]

Why do you keep judging wade's greatness by using a season where he is 33 and past his prime? You are really reaching here. A healthy Prime wade took 2 scrub squads to the playoffs in 09 and 2010. Those teams were horrible and worse than the cast he has now. Only idiots define a player's legacy by one past prime season. It's arbitrary and disingenuous.

Probably because last year, we had more than half of the forum telling us how great Wade was and how he would score 24-25 ppg without Lebron and lead Miami.

[Wade's Rings]

The Heat lost plenty of Games they should've won. The Game vs the Bulls, vs the Bucks, the Pistons last Saturday. They have had injuries but with those wins they would be in 7th place comfortably.

[greatest-ever]

People are discrediting wade's season too much here. They are judging as if he's still in his prime and never had all those injuries. He was decent this year, 22 4 5 on 47 % shooting and a 21-22 PER. He wasn't just an average player. And sorr wade haters but he can only add to his legacy at this point not subtract from it.

[97 bulls]

Why do you keep judging wade's greatness by using a season where he is 33 and past his prime? You are really reaching here. A healthy Prime wade took 2 scrub squads to the playoffs in 09 and 2010. Those teams were horrible and worse than the cast he has now. Only idiots define a player's legacy by one past prime season. It's arbitrary and disingenuous.
Like I told you in the other thread I don't think you were in that conversation, but In the Wade/Pippen argument, one of the knocks on Pippen was that he didnt lead Porrland or Houston to championships at 33/34 years old.

[greatest-ever]

Probably because last year, we had more than half of the forum telling us how great Wade was and how he would score 24-25 ppg without Lebron and lead Miami.i never thought that i expected basically what hes doing 20-22 ppg on average efficiency.

[Wade's Rings]

People are discrediting wade's season too much here. They are judging as if he's still in his prime and never had all those injuries. He was decent this year, 22 4 5 on 47 % shooting and a 21-22 PER. He wasn't just an average player. And sorr wade haters but he can only add to his legacy at this point not subtract from it.

He played as well as anybody can at 33 with bad knees.

[greatest-ever]

Like I told you in the other thread I don't think you were in that conversation, but In the Wade/Pippen argument, one of the knocks on Pippen was that he didnt lead Porrland or Houston to championships at 33/34 years old.
He was also past his prime so i don't knock him either. Either way pippen has nothing to do with this discussion.

[mehyaM24]

@ the poster who mentioned wade's 'skills' - exactly

if wade, for most of his career, played in the pre-handcheck ban era (~2004) - and if he hadn't played with shaq/lebron, he'd be widely regarded as your run of the mill all-star.

without these guys, wade has either missed the playoffs or been a first round exit - his postseason shooting percentages e.g. fg%, 3pt% and ft% are average as well.

and that's my point - his game has ALWAYS been limited to me. aside from the streaky midrange and lack of 3pt shooting. he doesn't defend other than to get out of position to go for flashy blocks or steals.

his entire game consists of taking people off the dribble (lack of handchecking), and either finishing or looking to the refs to bail him out.

now that he's lost some of his explosion? guy can't take good defenders off the dribble - and lo and behold, one of the worst all stars via RPM (impact).

[97 bulls]

He was also past his prime so i don't knock him either. Either way pippen has nothing to do with this discussion.
Not bringing him in it. Im talking about the mindset. I agree that this isnt prime Wade. But if that is a prerequisite, then I expect it to hold true for Wade as well

[97 bulls]

@ the poster who mentioned wade's 'skills' - exactly

if wade, for most of his career, played in the pre-handcheck ban era (~2004) - and if he hadn't played with shaq/lebron, he'd be widely regarded as your run of the mill all-star.

without these guys, wade has either missed the playoffs or been a first round exit - his postseason shooting percentages e.g. fg%, 3pt% and ft% are average as well.

and that's my point - his game has ALWAYS been limited to me. aside from the streaky shooting and lack of 3pt shooting, consistent midrange, hee doesn't defend other than to get out of position to go for flashy blocks or steals.

his entire game consists of taking people off the dribble (lack of handchecking), and either finishing or looking to the refs to bail him out.

now that he's lost his some of his explosion? guy can't take good defenders off the dribble and lo and behold, one of the worst all stars via RPM (impact).
Very true

[aj1987]

if wade, for most of his career, played in the pre-handcheck ban era (~2004) - and if he hadn't played with shaq/lebron, he'd be widely regarded as your run of the mill all-star.

without these guys, wade has either missed the playoffs or been a first round exit - his postseason shooting percentages e.g. fg%, 3pt% and ft% are average as well.

You do realize that Wade made the PO's during his rookie year and was hitting game winners in those PO's, right? He was more efficient that LeBron in the '04 season as well. LeBron would be a "run of the mill" All-Star as well? :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

You do realize that Wade made the PO's during his rookie year and was hitting game winners in those PO's, right? He was more efficient that LeBron in the '04 season as well. LeBron would be a "run of the mill" All-Star as well? :oldlol:
You can't possibly be serious

[greatest-ever]

Like I told you in the other thread I don't think you were in that conversation, but In the Wade/Pippen argument, one of the knocks on Pippen was that he didnt lead Porrland or Houston to championships at 33/34 years old.
And fwiw, with Pippen vs Wade i rank Wade higher because i think he was a just better player in his prime. I don't count rings or team success or what they did in their latter years.

Where do you rank each of them on your all time list? For me Wade is 20-21 while pippen is around 27-29.

[mehyaM24]

You do realize that Wade made the PO's during his rookie year and was hitting game winners in those PO's, right? He was more efficient that LeBron in the '04 season as well. LeBron would be a "run of the mill" All-Star as well? :oldlol:
i said most of his career, as in his prime. this current version of wade would reduced to a role player pre-handchecking (srs)

[aj1987]

i said most of his career, as in his prime. this current version of wade would reduced to a role player pre-handchecking (srs)
Cool. Then current LeBron, who's shooting significantly worse on his jumpers, this season would just be a run-of-the-mill All-Star according to your logic. :cheers:

[97 bulls]

And fwiw, with Pippen vs Wade i rank Wade higher because i think he was a just better player in his prime. I don't count rings or team success or what they did in their latter years.

Where do you rank each of them on your all time list? For me Wade is 20-21 while pippen is around 27-29.
Rank is based on accomplishments. Not whose better. As far as impact, I think Pippens was higher. But theyre two TOTALLY different types of players.

Th only applies argument that Wade has over Pippen is 3 games in 2006. I believe Wade has more allstar appearances, but thats really it.

[aj1987]

And fwiw, with Pippen vs Wade i rank Wade higher because i think he was a just better player in his prime. I don't count rings or team success or what they did in their latter years.

Where do you rank each of them on your all time list? For me Wade is 20-21 while pippen is around 27-29.
Don't ask that idiot. That guy has absolutely no idea about basketball. Dude is legit retarded.

[mehyaM24]

Cool. Then current LeBron, who's shooting significantly worse on his jumpers, this season would just be a run-of-the-mill All-Star according to your logic. :cheers:
despite the injuries, lebron is one of the highest impact players. even with a down year in shooting (38% on long 2's + 35% from 3PT, which is STILL better than wade).

the vast difference in versatility makes your comparison a silly one (lebron is STILL an MVP candidate/arguably the best player).

[aj1987]

despite the injuries, lebron is one of the highest impact players. even with a down year in shooting (38% on long 2's + 35% from 3PT, which is STILL better than wade).

the vast difference in versatility makes your comparison a silly one (lebron is STILL an MVP candidate/arguably the best player).
Lebron is shooting 36.8% on jumpers and Wade is shooting 40.2%. Not to mention the FACT that Wade actually can play off-ball, which will work in his advantage in the hand check era. LeBron would probably end up being a 20/4/4 player on 53% TS if Wade is relegated to being a role-player.

MVP candidate? Sure.

Elite perimeter defender? Check.
All-NBA PF, who led the league in rebounding? Check.
All-Star PG? Check.
Elite defender at the 5? Check.
6th MOY? Check.
Elite rebounding big off the bench? Check.
Multiple elite 3pt shooters? Check.
Barely winning 50 games with a roster which is stacked AF? Check.

Dat MVP contention and dat impact doe. 50 wins in the stacked as **** EC... :eek:

[mehyaM24]

^^^^ rpm & rapm separate teammates and opposition, so bringing up his 'help' by means to undermine his impact, doesn't work. with bad teammates in cleveland circa 2009 & 2010, lebron was still leading the league in these metrics (individual impact).

so once again, comparing lebron (goat candidate) to wade (barely a top 50 player) & acting like they're the same caliber of player, is low iq.

lebron is one of the most versatile players ever. wade? not so much.

[SouBeachTalents]

^^^^ rpm & rapm separate teammates and opposition, so bringing up his 'help' by means to undermine his impact doesn't work. with bad teammates in cleveland circa 2009 & 2010, lebron was still leading the league in these metrics (individual impact).

so again, comparing lebron (goat candidate) to wade (barely a top 50 player), acting like they're the same caliber of player is low iq.

lebron is one of the most versatile players ever. wade? not so much.

You talking this season or all time?

[aj1987]

^^^^ rpm & rapm separate teammates and opposition, so bringing up his 'help' by means to undermine his impact, doesn't work. with bad teammates in cleveland circa 2009 & 2010, lebron was still leading the league in these metrics (individual impact).

so once again, comparing lebron (goat candidate) to wade (barely a top 50 player) & acting like they're the same caliber of player, is low iq.

lebron is one of the most versatile players ever. wade? not so much.
The **** are you even talking about. What you just said has NOTHING to do with what I posted? I didn't mention the made up "impact" stats.

If Wade is barely a top 50 player, LeBron is barely a top 35 player.


despite the injuries, lebron is one of the highest impact players. even with a down year in shooting (38% on long 2's + 35% from 3PT, which is STILL better than wade).

the vast difference in versatility makes your comparison a silly one (lebron is STILL an MVP candidate/arguably the best player).
Lebron is shooting 36.8% on jumpers and Wade is shooting 40.2%. Not to mention the FACT that Wade actually can play off-ball, which will work in his advantage in the hand check era. LeBron would probably end up being a 20/4/4 player on 53% TS if Wade is relegated to being a role-player.

MVP candidate? Sure.

Elite perimeter defender? Check.
All-NBA PF, who led the league in rebounding? Check.
All-Star PG? Check.
Elite defender at the 5? Check.
6th MOY? Check.
Elite rebounding big off the bench? Check.
Multiple elite 3pt shooters? Check.
Barely winning 50 games with a roster which is stacked AF? Check.

Dat MVP contention and dat impact doe. 50 wins in the stacked as **** EC... :eek:

[mehyaM24]

The **** are you even talking about. What you just said has NOTHING to do with what I posted? I didn't mention the made up

in cleveland, circa 2009 & 2010, lebron took a team with its second best player being mo williams, to the conference & semi finals. prior to that? a washed up ilgauskas (sp?) to the finals.

my point? using 'those' impact stats (regardless of teammates) along with what lebron has accomplished with LITTLE help, refute any excuses you want to make.

a monkey could digest the information i'm posting. LOL

[nba_55]

The **** are you even talking about. What you just said has NOTHING to do with what I posted? I didn't mention the made up "impact" stats.

If Wade is barely a top 50 player, LeBron is barely a top 35 player.


Lebron is shooting 36.8% on jumpers and Wade is shooting 40.2%. Not to mention the FACT that Wade actually can play off-ball, which will work in his advantage in the hand check era. LeBron would probably end up being a 20/4/4 player on 53% TS if Wade is relegated to being a role-player.

MVP candidate? Sure.

Elite perimeter defender? Check.
All-NBA PF, who led the league in rebounding? Check.
All-Star PG? Check.
Elite defender at the 5? Check.
6th MOY? Check.
Elite rebounding big off the bench? Check.
Multiple elite 3pt shooters? Check.
Barely winning 50 games with a roster which is stacked AF? Check.

Dat MVP contention and dat impact doe. 50 wins in the stacked as **** EC... :eek:


2-10 without Lebron? Check :eek: :eek:

[Hotlantadude81]

Why are people so obsesssed with the MVP?

[greatest-ever]

Rank is based on accomplishments. Not whose better. As far as impact, I think Pippens was higher. But theyre two TOTALLY different types of players.

Th only applies argument that Wade has over Pippen is 3 games in 2006. I believe Wade has more allstar appearances, but thats really it.
So by your logic hondo>Lebron because he has more rings? Tony parker> isaiah too?

And again you are being dishonest here wade's 09 season was a 30
5 8 on 49 fg% 57 ts% with all nba defense that was far greater than anything pippen has done. And u cant count rings because pippen was a 2nd option on them all. Wade was so much better at offense that pippen's edge in defense doesn't even matter.

[aj1987]

in cleveland, circa 2009 & 2010, lebron took a team with its second best player being mo williams, to the conference & semi finals. prior to that? a washed up ilgauskas (sp?) to the finals.

my point? using 'those' impact stats (regardless of teammates) along with what lebron has accomplished with LITTLE help, refute any excuses you want to make.

a monkey could digest the information i'm posting. LOL
Again, shit for brains, that doesn't have ANYTHING to do with what I posted earlier. You and I were talking about this season and LeBron's and Wade's ability to play in the hand check era.

****ing idiot.

Once again,


despite the injuries, lebron is one of the highest impact players. even with a down year in shooting (38% on long 2's + 35% from 3PT, which is STILL better than wade).

the vast difference in versatility makes your comparison a silly one (lebron is STILL an MVP candidate/arguably the best player).

Lebron is shooting 36.8% on jumpers and Wade is shooting 40.2%. Not to mention the FACT that Wade actually can play off-ball, which will work in his advantage in the hand check era. LeBron would probably end up being a 20/4/4 player on 53% TS if Wade is relegated to being a role-player.

MVP candidate? Sure.

Elite perimeter defender? Check.
All-NBA PF, who led the league in rebounding? Check.
All-Star PG? Check.
Elite defender at the 5? Check.
6th MOY? Check.
Elite rebounding big off the bench? Check.
Multiple elite 3pt shooters? Check.
Barely winning 50 games with a roster which is stacked AF? Check.

Dat MVP contention and dat impact doe. 50 wins in the stacked as **** EC... :eek:

[mehyaM24]

Lebron is shooting 36.8% on jumpers and Wade is shooting 40.2%. Not to mention the FACT that Wade actually can play off-ball, which will work in his advantage in the hand check era. LeBron would probably end up being a 20/4/4 player on 53% TS if Wade is relegated to being a role-player.

MVP candidate? Sure.

Elite perimeter defender? Check.
All-NBA PF, who led the league in rebounding? Check.
All-Star PG? Check.
Elite defender at the 5? Check.
6th MOY? Check.
Elite rebounding big off the bench? Check.
Multiple elite 3pt shooters? Check.
Barely winning 50 games with a roster which is stacked AF? Check.

Dat MVP contention and dat impact doe. 50 wins in the stacked as **** EC... :eek:

lebron's impact goes beyond his shooting (still a superior 3pt shooter and from long-range 2's, per attempt) - he's a vastly superior playmaker, defender, clutch player & leader.

you repeating what lebron has for help? doesn't mean anything (as noted, they're 2-10 without lebron) - the impact numbers suggest with or without 'stacked teams', lebron is one of the highest impact players all-time. when healthy, practically #1 since the 2008-09 season.

lmao @ "made up" stats, btw. all stats are made up, you ape.

[dubeta]

Why do Heat Fans Hate LeBron so much? :facepalm

[aj1987]

sure it does. for whatever reason, you just cannot comprehend anything i am posting. ape.
Ironic that your retarded ass is calling others as ape.


ebron's impact goes beyond his shooting (still a superior 3pt shooter and from long-range from 2 per attempts). he's a vastly superior playmaker, defender, clutch player & leader.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

This, kids, is the reason why you shouldn't base your opinions on a single stat. Especially when that single stat is RAPM.


you repeating what lebron has for help? doesn't mean anything, as the data shows with or without 'stacked teams', lebron is one of the highest impact players all-time. when healthy, practically #1 since the 2008-09 season.
Dude has a ton of others to take the defensive attention away from him. Love, Kyrie, JR, etc. call all stretch the floor leaving the pain OPEN for LeBron. How hard is that to comprehend?

Again, I never said that LeBron isn't the best player in the world. I actually called him the GOAT SF and best player in the world in another thread. Still, using your retarded logic, LeBron would just be a slightly better player than Wade with hand check. Wade is clearly a better jump shooter and is a better off-ball player. The two aspects of the game which are crucial if there's hand checking involved.


Why do Heat Fans Hate LeBron so much? :facepalm
Because of ******s like you and the retard above you. When you discredit a Heat legend, you're gonna get it back.



EDIT: :oldlol: @ the sensitive ass LeBron turds negging me. Sign your name, cowards.

[mehyaM24]

lol no. using "my logic", lebron is another class of player. he's a goat candidate and shoe-in top 10 ATG. wade is FAR from that, despite playing on better teams.

the fact i'm repeating myself over & over again, just proves that you cannot grasp simple concepts. get an education. :facepalm

[97 bulls]

So by your logic hondo>Lebron because he has more rings? Tony parker> isaiah too?
Its not just rings. It is accomplishments as a whole.


And again you are being dishonest here wade's 09 season was a 30
5 8 on 49 fg% 57 ts% with all nba defense that was far greater than anything pippen has done.
I disagree. I don't see any difference between the season you mentioned and Pips 95 season in which Pippen led his team in every major category. And was the best defender in the league as well as the all nba all defense 1st teams.


And u cant count rings because pippen was a 2nd option on them all. Wade was so much better at offense that pippen's edge in defense doesn't even matter.
Oh come on. The Bulls don't win without Pippen. In All SIX of their runs. Some feel that the Heat won in spite Wade in some of their championships.

[mehyaM24]

Its not just rings. It is accomplishments as a whole.


I disagree. I don't see any difference between the season you mentioned and Pips 95 season in which Pippen led his team in every major category. And was the best defender in the league as well as the all nba all defense 1st teams.


Oh come on. The Bulls don't win without Pippen. In All SIX of their runs. Some feel that the Heat won in spite Wade in some of their championships.
pippen > wade, imo.

its close, but pippen's defensive versatility & playmaking were more consistent than wade's streaky shooting/scoring.

[aj1987]

lol no. using "my logic", lebron is another class of player. he's a goat candidate and shoe-in top 10 ATG. wade is FAR from that, despite playing on better teams.
:oldlol:

Wade at WORST is 15 ranks behind LeBron currently. LeBron is around 7-10 and Wade is around 18-25.

:oldlol: @ LeBron being a GOAT candidate. That ship sailed when dude decided to suck donkey balls in '07 and '11.


the fact i'm repeating myself over & over again, just proves that you cannot grasp simple concepts. get an education. :facepalm
Says the idiot with single digit IQ. :roll:



Oh come on. The Bulls don't win without Pippen. In All SIX of their runs. Some feel that the Heat won in spite Wade in some of their championships.
The resident retard strikes again.

Without Wade:

'06 - 1st or 2nd round loss
'11 - If the make it past the Bulls, a Finals sweep.
'12 - Lose to the Pacers
'13 - Lose to the Spurs
'14 - MIGHT lose to the Pacers in the ECF

So, out of the 5 finals that the Heat went to, they would not only not win a SINGLE ring without him, but they probably might not even make the Finals thrice.

[mehyaM24]

Wade at WORST is 15 ranks behind LeBron currently. LeBron is around 7-10 and Wade is around 18-25.
lebron is unanimously a top 10 player. wade? a tossup in the 20-30 range. some people, like the tnt crew, have him ~35-40, iirc.

either way, you're grasping at straws.


:oldlol: @ LeBron being a GOAT candidate. That ship sailed when dude decided to suck donkey balls in '07 and '11.

Says the idiot with single digit IQ. :roll:

your "insults" are cheap & full of cringe. dilbert lol.

[aj1987]

lebron is unanimously a top 10 player. wade? a tossup in the 20-30 range. some people, like the tnt crew, have him ~35-40, iirc.

either way, you're grasping at straws.
Yeah, LeBron is NOT "unanimously" top 10.

MJ, KAJ, Russell, Shaq, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, and Wilt all have cases to be ranked over LeBron.



your "insults" are cheap & full of cringe. just stop. lol
About cringeworthy as your posts.

[mehyaM24]

Yeah, LeBron is NOT "unanimously" top 10.

MJ, KAJ, Russell, Shaq, Bird, Magic, Kobe, Hakeem, Duncan, and Wilt all have cases to be ranked over LeBron.
LOL at this idiot

thanks for the laugh. :oldlol:

[aj1987]

LOL at this idiot

thanks for the laugh. :oldlol:
Who among those 10 do not have a case?

[Magic 32]

If they stay healthy this Heat team is top 4 next year.

To many changes and injuries this year.

And please let the Lebron stans have their day. It almost June.

60% chance of heartbreak.

[aj1987]

If they stay healthy this Heat team is top 4 next year.

To many changes and injuries this year.

And please let the Lebron stans have their day. It almost June.

60% chance of heartbreak.
So, they have a 40% chance of winning? :oldlol:

I see what you did there.

[sd3035]

Who among those 10 do not have a case?

Lebron doesn't have a case against any of them yet, he might pass a few soon though

[Lensanity]

The Heat lost LeBron, got a new solid SF in Deng, discovered Whiteside out of now where who ended up being a top 10 center in the league this year, and Wade is healthier this year yet they STILL missed the playoffs in the Least. Bosh's season ended right when they got Dragic for nothing but draft picks.

Unbelievable. Lebron carried the same team but with no center, a beat up shitty version of D Wade, and a garbage point guard who he made look decent to the FINALS! Yes, it is easier to make the finals as an East team but that's is still insanely impressive.

The Spurs were insanely good in June last year. They were well above average for a championship team. Lebron had no help because D Wade, who was supposed to be Robin looked like a scrub bench player throughout the entire series. People can't seriously say things like 2/5 and all that when LeBron took that team way further than they should have gone.

Seeing what he has done in Cleveland and Miami and what they were without him I can honestly say that in my entire life of watching basketball I don't think I have ever seen a player that had as significant of a positive impact on their teams than LeBron. He honestly deserves more MVPs than he has.

[Lensanity]

If they stay healthy this Heat team is top 4 next year.

To many changes and injuries this year.

And please let the Lebron stans have their day. It almost June.

60% chance of heartbreak.

Why the hell couldn't they make the playoffs this year? There is no excuse. Wade was better and healthier this year, they found Whiteside, Deng was a solid pickup, and Dragic came right when Bosh got a lung problem so there wasn't much of a loss there. They play in the East. They play crappy East teams all the time and still couldn't get the crappy record requires to get the 8th seed. How pathetic :lol

[Dresta]

The Heat lost LeBron, got a new solid SF in Deng, discovered Whiteside out of now where who ended up being a top 10 center in the league this year, and Wade is healthier this year yet they STILL missed the playoffs in the Least. Bosh's season ended right when they got Dragic for nothing but draft picks.

Unbelievable. Lebron carried the same team but with no center, a beat up shitty version of D Wade, and a garbage point guard who he made look decent to the FINALS! Yes, it is easier to make the finals as an East team but that's is still insanely impressive.

The Spurs were insanely good in June last year. They were well above average for a championship team. Lebron had no help because D Wade, who was supposed to be Robin looked like a scrub bench player throughout the entire series. People can't seriously say things like 2/5 and all that when LeBron took that team way further than they should have gone.

Seeing what he has done in Cleveland and Miami and what they were without him I can honestly say that in my entire life of watching basketball I don't think I have ever seen a player that had as significant of a positive impact on their teams than LeBron. He honestly deserves more MVPs than he has.
Ok obvious alt for some annoying Bron stan with no life.

:rolleyes:

[Magic 32]

Wade was better and healthier this year

Compared to what? Not playing at all?

He missed 20 games and played 32 minutes per game (career low).

[Hey Yo]

Compared to what? Not playing at all?

He missed 20 games and played 32 minutes per game (career low).
March 19th



"This is the best I've felt in years right now," Wade said Wednesday. "You question it. And you try not to question it, like 'Why? Why couldn't I feel like this the last two years?' But it is what it is. I'm feeling like this now, when I need it individually to (carry) more of a load to help this team."


"It feels good, man," said Wade, who is averaging 21.8 points, 5.2 assists and 3.7 rebounds in 49 games. "I've taken a lot of criticism and I've worked very hard on my body to get to the point where I know, fourth quarter, it shows. That means a lot to me. When everyone is tired, I go up a notch. And for an old guy, that's not bad at all to have that extra level to go to."

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25113967/heats-dwyane-wade-this-is-the-best-ive-felt-in-years

[greatest-ever]

Its not just rings. It is accomplishments as a whole.Mmk? Where is Pippen's edge in accomplishments outside of foolish ring counting?

Pip: 7 all star
All star game mvp
3 time all nba 1st team
2 2nd team
2 3rd team
10 defenisve selections

Wade: 11 all star
FMVP
All star game mvp
2 all nba 1st team
3 2nd team
3 3rd team
Scoring title
3 defensive selections

Pippen's only edge even in accolades is defense which i ackwoledge he's a better defender.






I disagree. I don't see any difference between the season you mentioned and Pips 95 season in which Pippen led his team in every major category. And was the best defender in the league as well as the all nba all defense 1st teams.
Lol no difference? One was a 22.6 PER guy and the other was a 30.4 PER seems like a pretty big difference to me.


Oh come on. The Bulls don't win without Pippen. In All SIX of their runs. Some feel that the Heat won in spite Wade in some of their championships.
Ok this is a strawman fallacy. I never said they would win without Pippen. Sorry the heat certainly don't win in 2012 without Wade's Indiana series where he put up 30 9 6 in game 4, 28 in game 5 and 41 10 rbs in game 6. This is all with Bosh being out, and he didn't come back until late in the Ecf. And Wade certainly had an impact in the other series as well. They don't win in 2013 without Wade taking over game 4 in San Antonio sorry they just don't, 32 6 4 while hitting all the clutch shots in the 4th. You'll probably try to look at the box score and point to LEbron having a better game but the reality is Wade put the game away with Lebron on the bench and he just came in and stat padded in garbage time. Think i'm wrong? Go look at the tape.

Again bringing up rings is stupid for Pippen, his best statistical run during the championship playoff runs was 22 9 6 56 ts% with a 22 PER, while Mj faced most of the defensive attention. Wade did 28 6 6 59 ts% 27 PER.

[Magic 32]

March 19th

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25113967/heats-dwyane-wade-this-is-the-best-ive-felt-in-years

Then he woke up the next day.

[97 bulls]

Mmk? Where is Pippen's edge in accomplishments outside of foolish ring counting?

Pip: 7 all star
All star game mvp
3 time all nba 1st team
2 2nd team
2 3rd team
10 defenisve selections

Wade: 11 all star
FMVP
All star game mvp
2 all nba 1st team
3 2nd team
3 3rd team
Scoring title
3 defensive selections

Pippen's only edge even in accolades is defense which i ackwoledge he's a better defender.






Lol no difference? One was a 22.6 PER guy and the other was a 30.4 PER seems like a pretty big difference to me.


Ok this is a strawman fallacy. I never said they would win without Pippen. Sorry the heat certainly don't win in 2012 without Wade's Indiana series where he put up 30 9 6 in game 4, 28 in game 5 and 41 10 rbs in game 6. This is all with Bosh being out, and he didn't come back until late in the Ecf. And Wade certainly had an impact in the other series as well. They don't win in 2013 without Wade taking over game 4 in San Antonio sorry they just don't, 32 6 4 while hitting all the clutch shots in the 4th. You'll probably try to look at the box score and point to LEbron having a better game but the reality is Wade put the game away with Lebron on the bench and he just came in and stat padded in garbage time. Think i'm wrong? Go look at the tape.

Again bringing up rings is stupid for Pippen, his best statistical run during the championship playoff runs was 22 9 6 56 ts% with a 22 PER, while Mj faced most of the defensive attention. Wade did 28 6 6 59 ts% 27 PER.
You can't totally rings bro. Thats why the game is played. And Wade may have more AllNBA awards total (only one) Pippen has more 1st team. Which holds more weight. And Pippen KILLS Wade in All Defense awards where its nowhere near close. I think its insane that you put more credit in All Star game appearances than Titles.

And if you're gonna give Wades failures a pass due to injury, then I can do the same as far as Finals MVP. Because Pippen was well on his way to winning it in 98 before he got hurt.

You also want to minimize defensive impact. PER doesn't take that into consideration. It adds blocks and steals, but not actual defensive impact. Since you're in to advanced stats, lets also include that Pippen led the league in defensive rating. And led the playoffs twice.

[Dresta]

March 19th





http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25113967/heats-dwyane-wade-this-is-the-best-ive-felt-in-years
Why would you believe that? He was playing great, but every time he says something like that, he has a set-back or injury. It doesn't mean shit.

A few weeks after feeling his 'best ever' he was having fluid drained from his knee (though he put up 40 the next day to drag a flagging Miami team over Detriot).

[Dresta]

You can't totally rings bro. Thats why the game is played. And Wade may have more AllNBA awards total (only one) Pippen has more 1st team. Which holds more weight. And Pippen KILLS Wade in All Defense awards where its nowhere near close. I think its insane that you put more credit in All Star game appearances than Titles.

And if you're gonna give Wades failures a pass due to injury, then I can do the same as far as Finals MVP. Because Pippen was well on his way to winning it in 98 before he got hurt.

You also want to minimize defensive impact. PER doesn't take that into consideration. It adds blocks and steals, but not actual defensive impact. Since you're in to advanced stats, lets also include that Pippen led the league in defensive rating. And led the playoffs twice.
No he wasn't. You simply made that shit up, as usual.

[plowking]

Why are people so obsesssed with the MVP?

It is the highest individual award you can hope to achieve. One that defines consistency and shows you were the standout player over the course of an entire season.

At the same time, you have guys like Wade who don't get one, yet a guy like Curry who hasn't reached the peaks as an individual that Wade did getting one.

[BigNBAfan]

It is the highest individual award you can hope to achieve. One that defines consistency and shows you were the standout player over the course of an entire season.

At the same time, you have guys like Wade who don't get one, yet a guy like Curry who hasn't reached the peaks as an individual that Wade did getting one.

It has nothing to do with season game play... the standout player during the season is often times not even in the finals

[97 bulls]

It is the highest individual award you can hope to achieve. One that defines consistency and shows you were the standout player over the course of an entire season.

At the same time, you have guys like Wade who don't get one, yet a guy like Curry who hasn't reached the peaks as an individual that Wade did getting one.
It still comes down to context, if Wade Heat team finishes with a top 3 record in 09 then hed easily win the MVP. In essence, the MVP award is a tewm award because only the best player on the best teams have a legitimate chance to win it.

[97 bulls]

No he wasn't. You simply made that shit up, as usual.
There were newspaper articles all over saying that Pippen was the front runner for MVP after the Bulls took a 3-1 lead. He got hurt taking a charge from Malone in game four and that was all she wrote.

[Mr Feeny]

There were newspaper articles all over saying that Pippen was the front runner for MVP after the Bulls took a 3-1 lead. He got hurt taking a charge from Malone in game four and that was all she wrote.

Too bad it's not a 4 game series:cheers:
Pippen had a disgustingly bad 2-16 shooting game in game 5 and then had an 8 point performance in game 6. Injury or not, he's not the decisive factor in the Bulls run and rightfully so was not voted in as finals mvp. Jordan was. That's all she wrote.

[97 bulls]

Too bad it's not a 4 game series:cheers:
Pippen had a disgustingly bad 2-16 shooting game in game 5 and then had an 8 point performance in game 6. Injury or not, he's not the decisive factor in the Bulls run and rightfully so was not voted in as finals mvp. Jordan was. That's all she wrote.
I absolutely agree. My point is that we need to be consistent. If we're gonna excuse Wades failures to injuries, age, and situation, then we need to do take for everyone.

[RRR3]

Why do Heat Fans Hate LeBron so much? :facepalm
That's not true at all. Many Heat fans still appreciate LeBron a lot (AJ, Plowking, FDFSLU, Navy, and myself-although I'm more of a Heat fan/Bran stan hybrid). If you troll, you'll get troll responses.