You'd think an off-ball player would be the top scorer every year, since...

[3ball]

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There's no time to set up floods or shading on a quick-hitting, off-ball player:


http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/4fed286079c3b64f18d2c6177f41f7e4.gif


http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-12-2015/kZ6KsT.gif


Yet amazingly, the leading scorer today is the NBA's most ball-dominant player (Westbrook), even though today's floods and shading are specifically designed to stop ballhandlers.

We can only assume guys like MJ or Bird would do way better considering they used quick-hitting, off-ball styles that weren't exploitable or susceptible to any defensive scheme.
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[navy]

Quit being dumb. The scoring leader is who gets the most shots up more often then sprinkled in with efficiency as you actually need to make some baskets.

You can get up shots no matter how you play if you want to.

[Asukal]

STFU 3ball

Stop being insecure. Are you jlauber/loseruss per chance? :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

We're just days away from the postseason, and ALL this guy can think about is spamming the same 20 year old Jordan gifs.

Frighteningly pathetic if you think about it.

[jongib369]

We're just days away from the postseason, and ALL this guy can think about is spamming the same 20 year old Jordan gifs.

Frighteningly pathetic if you think about it.
Considering the amount of people who think there are a plethora of guys in the league the same size and athleticism as Wilt/shaq, and that MJ wouldn't be as good today... I think he has some reason to counter troll/spam them. Wont say I agree with everything, he would probably rank Jordan over Wilt and I don't think he should be higher...But, at least he's seemingly well researched to some extent, right? Its almost refreshing having to counter what he says versus "2/6", or some idiot thinking Moses Malone wouldn't be the best center in the league right now because "He couldn't adjust to today's defenses"

[LoneyROY7]

Nice travel on that first gif. :lol

[3ball]

The scoring leader is who gets the most shots up


The leading scorer can have league-leading efficiency too - MJ used to do both - he had 4 straight seasons of 31+ PER and 60%+ TS.





You can get up shots no matter how you play if you want to.


Exactly - the plethora of ballhandlers like Westbrook who've found tremendous success in today's game disproves the entire narrative that shading and flooding slows down ballhandlers - this is something people like to say, but it's obviously not true at all.. We see with our own eyes that ballhandlers run wild with today's wider driving lanes and no touch penetration.

Also, spacing and defensive 3 seconds leaves the rim and paint wide open on a perpetual basis - i.e. instead of being able to paint-camp like previous eras, today's bigs are forced to go outside the paint to shade/flood in Westbrook and Jordan's wheelhouse, the perimeter.

[dubeta]

LeBron won the scoring title in 2008 playing solely off-ball

Probably the last off-ball player to win it.

[LoneyROY7]

How about if you stop flooding this board with your diarrhea, I'll stop shading your rep crimson red.

[navy]

The leading scorer can have league-leading efficiency too - MJ used to do both - he had 4 straight seasons of 31+ PER and 60%+ TS.



Exactly - the plethora of ballhandlers like Westbrook who've found tremendous success in today's game disproves the entire narrative that shading and flooding slows down ballhandlers - this is something people like to say, but it's obviously not true at all.. We see with our own eyes that ballhandlers run wild with today's wider driving lanes and no touch penetration.

Also, spacing and defensive 3 seconds leaves the rim and paint wide open on a perpetual basis - i.e. instead of being able to paint-camp like previous eras, today's bigs are forced to go outside the paint to shade/flood in Westbrook and Jordan's wheelhouse, the perimeter.
.....lol.

Like I said, quit being dumb. Westbrook can chuck up shots in any era. The vast majority of his shots were from the outside and not at the rim off dribble penetration. There is nothing special or era specific about it.

[3ball]

Nice travel on that first gif. :lol


It's not a travel - it's just that almost no one ever posters anyone with that specific footwork, so it looks unusual to you.

That play represents elite navigation efficiency (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360900) and requires elite athleticism and skill - you won't find another player posterizing someone using that specific footwork.. certainly not off just one dribble.
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[Eric Cartman]

Would you consider Durant an off ball player? cause he has won it 4 times.

He does alot of catch and shot, move without the ball, sometimes iso, but MJ did too occasionally.

[Achilleas]

best off ball passer :pimp:

[TripleA]

well westbrook is literally the most one dimensional lowest scoring leader since allen iverson. The only reason he is leading the league in scoring is because he has ball more than any other player by far. Well carmelo, kevin durant were scoring leaders the last 5 previous seasons and they were not ball dominate like westbrook, they were off ball shooters who could drive and post up.

[LoneyROY7]

yes, absolutely - and when you look at it, the times durant has played his best, he was playing mostly off-ball.

only in recent years has he really made a concerted effort to take on the point-guard-style of ball-domination and become more of that type of player, and his results haven't been nearly as good.

:biggums:

Did I hallucinate Durant winning the MVP and putting up 32/7.4/5.5/ on 50 percent last year then?

[3ball]

Durant is not good enough at being a ball-dominator for that to take over what he does best, which is being an off-ball shooter and player (an athletic dirk).

that's his wheelhouse, and when he played like that (2012 WCF vs. Spurs was his peak playing like this), he was never better - that's his best shot at dominating the best competition..

don't get me wrong - durant should still be the primary ballhandler at times and push it on the break, but for the most part, leave the point guard style to the point guards.
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[jstern]

Quit being dumb. The scoring leader is who gets the most shots up more often then sprinkled in with efficiency as you actually need to make some baskets.

You can get up shots no matter how you play if you want to.

The most impressive things about guys like Kobe and Jordan is their ability to create shots. Not just any players can create 20+ shots per game. They could, if they simply just threw the ball, but then they would be benched pretty quickly, and kicked out of the league.

A Kobe could shoot 37% from the field this season, he shouldn't be doing it, but at the same time being able to create that many shots is impressive by itself.

[LoneyROY7]

when he was catching the ball on the wing and operating out of the triple-threat against SA in the 2012 playoffs - that's when he was at his best.. this is how he dominated every 4th quarter against the Spurs that year.

obviously, durant's off-ball style allows his efficiency to be much higher, and notice how he can have big scoring games so much EASIER than westbrook's ball-domination.. westbrook-style ball-domination not only wastes a lot of energy, but production achieved via ball-domination takes longer and can impinge on teammates' touches.

You don't need to copy and paste the same thing you just posted. :lol

KD put up the best season of his career thus far last year, playing a more ball-dominating role.

[navy]

Im not sure what you are watching, the reason Durant struggled is because he was getting denied the ball far too often in his spot and pushed out of postion forcing Westbrook to chuck when he couldnt get the ball to him. If anything Durant should have brought the ball up more to stop them from denying him his spots and the ball. Taking the ball directly away from Westbrook.

[navy]

The most impressive things about guys like Kobe and Jordan is their ability to create shots. Not just any players can create 20+ shots per game. They could, if they simply just threw the ball, but then they would be benched pretty quickly, and kicked out of the league.

A Kobe could shoot 37% from the field this season, he shouldn't be doing it, but at the same time being able to create that many shots is impressive by itself.

Any reasonable star player can create 20 shots a game in my opinion. Obviously they would have much worse efficiency, but if they really wanted to they could chuck and win a scoring title.

[3ball]

The vast majority of Westbrook's shots were from the outside and not at the rim off dribble penetration.


Westbrook's points were all scored while he was the primary ballhandler.. He won the scoring crown even though he's only good at one role - the primary ballhandler role.

So it's scary to think how much better a guy like MJ would do, since he was elite at ALL roles, including low post scoring (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10861649&postcount=3), off-ball play (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10862372&postcount=18), mid-range shooting (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11181251&postcount=44), mid-range repertoire (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10861764&postcount=7), rim attack (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353826), drop-step ability (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10422917&postcount=172), primary ballhandler ability (http://www.complex.com/sports/2014/01/michael-jordan-point-guard-in-1989-posted-triple-double-10-of-11-games), beating perimeter double teams (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10699081&postcount=10), all aspects (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11021030&postcount=6)
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