Top 10 Peak's ever.

[VengefulAngel]

Which player's reached the greatest level?

[Sarcastic]

Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Bird
LeBron
Magic
Shaq
Kobe
Oscar
Hakeem

[SHAQisGOAT]

Top5:

-Shaq
-Jordan
-Kareem
-Bird
-Wilt

Rest of the top10:

-Hakeem
-Lebron
-Magic
-Duncan
-last spot is very difficult to pick, you got Barkley, Walton, Moses, Big O, KG, Russell, Kobe, Erving...

[RightTwoCensor]

Harden

[VengefulAngel]

Harden

Doesn't ever scratch top 100.

[pauk]

Top5:

-Shaq
-Jordan
-Kareem
-LeBron
-Wilt

Rest of the top10:

-Bird
-Hakeem
-Magic
-Duncan
-last spot is very difficult to pick, you got Barkley, Walton, Moses, Big O, KG, Russell, Kobe, Erving...


Agree with this one, just one minor but extremly necessary fix.

[SHAQisGOAT]

Agree with this one, just one minor but extremly necessary fix.

http://i.imgur.com/2xVCzNW.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

Lebron has arguably the best peak of all the perimeter players

[SHAQisGOAT]

Lebron has arguably the best peak of all the perimeter players

https://archive.org/serve/msdos_Jordan_vs_Bird_-_One_on_One_1988/Jordan_vs_Bird_-_One_on_One_1988_screenshot.gif

[Im Still Ballin]

Larry lacked athleticism and was a bad defender

Michael, Kobe and Lebron are in a league of their own

[pauk]

@SHAQisGOAT.

I love Bird's game more than Lebron's (its a shooter thing + Bird was not to shabby of a passer himself)... i have no agenda here, then its up to you to believe it or not... i just personally think if there is any edge between those two peaks (which are very close) in my opinion is it has to go to Lebron... its just my opinion and i can respect & see why your opinion would be opposite, Bird was awesome... no problem...

[SHAQisGOAT]

Larry lacked athleticism and was a bad defender

Just from that quote alone is easy to tell you don't know what you're talking about.

Please, stick to unfunny trolling (or was that it, too?)...




I love Bird's game more than Lebron's (its a shooter thing + Bird was not to shabby of a passer himself)... i have no agenda here, then its up to you to believe it or not..

Right :rolleyes: I'm also sure the vast majority of people here will believe that :rolleyes: :oldlol:

[kenny817]

Larry lacked athleticism and was a bad defender

So many dumbasses on this site man

[Dr Hawk]

No order:

Jordan
Hakeem
Kareem
Shaq
Duncan
LeBron
Magic
Bird
Wilt
Garnett

[Im Still Ballin]

So many dumbasses on this site man
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[BigNBAfan]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

He made all defensive second team in the 80s 3 times

[Im Still Ballin]

He made all defensive second team in the 80s 3 times
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

[SHAQisGOAT]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

http://i727.photobucket.com/albums/ww280/goldxpurple/gregpopapproves.gif

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq GOAT Peak

[Rose'sACL]

1. Shaq
2. Jordan
3. Kareem
4. LeBron
5. Hakeem
6. Bird
7. Wilt
8. Kobe
9. Magic
10. Oscar

[SexSymbol]

Jordan
Shaq
Hakeem
Russell
Bird
Kobe
Duncan
Magic
Erving
Kareem

[LEFT4DEAD]

Putting any perimeter player other than MJ over Lebron is just :facepalm
Its smt like this:

Shaq
Kareem
MJ/Lebron
Lebron/MJ
Hakeem

After that it gets tougher.

[Chadwin]

93-94 Hakeem GOAT peak (MVP, DPOY, FMVP, title)

carrying a team with no other all stars/all nbas

[Stormtrooper]

Tim Duncan's peak is underrated as shit. Had one of the greatest playoff runs of all time, getting past the Kobe/Shaq lakers and playing one the best stretches of basketball ever in the 2003 playoffs. No all star help. Just him and Pop. And pop wasn't the same pop back then either. It was give the Ball to duncan in the post or on the block and let him go to work. Then on the other end Timmy was saving the Spurs' asses on defense as well. He was an absolute workhorse on the floor.


His lack of flash is what hurts him in this conversation I guess. But leaving him out of your top 10 peaks is asinine. :confusedshrug:

[SexSymbol]

Putting any perimeter player other than MJ over Lebron is just :facepalm
Its smt like this:

Shaq
Kareem
MJ/Lebron
Lebron/MJ
Hakeem

After that it gets tougher.
wtf, when did LeBron have 41 ppg finals? Or average 38 points in a season? Or win three championships in a row averaging astonishing numbers? MJ's peak is twice as impressive as Lebron's

[sd3035]

https://38.media.tumblr.com/a24196bbe04ced1d0f2df4f28de8d353/tumblr_mh5yo90KG01rw7cmwo1_250.gif

[Kobe_6/8]

Tim Duncan's peak is underrated as shit.

His lack of flash is what hurts him in this conversation I guess. But leaving him out of your top 10 peaks is asinine. :confusedshrug:

#7 all-time playoffs PER
#2 all-time playoffs win shares (behind MJ)
Most win shares in a single playoffs (2003)


Alpha
http://nbareligion.altervista.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Tim-Duncan.jpg

[dubeta]

wtf, when did LeBron have 41 ppg finals? Or average 38 points in a season? Or win three championships in a row averaging astonishing numbers? MJ's peak is twice as impressive as Lebron's

When did LeBron get to play in such a weak era to do that?

[kamil]

When did LeBron get to play in such a weak era to do that?

His entire career. And still failed.

[kennethgriffin]

Never really understood why people underrate kobes peak

Out of all the players mentioned... kobe has

- the 3rd highest season average
- the 2nd highest single game record
- won multiple titles without a legendary sidekick
- single handedly won the united states a gold medal in the last game
- outscored a team by himself
- had the 2nd most 60+ point games ever ( over a span of just a few years )



People trippin

[dh144498]

Never really understood why people underrate kobes peak

Out of all the players mentioned... kobe has

- the 3rd highest season average
- the 2nd highest single game record
- won multiple titles without a legendary sidekick
- single handedly won the united states a gold medal in the last game
- outscored a team by himself
- had the 2nd most 60+ point games ever ( over a span of just a few years )



People trippin

Kobe sucks, bro.

[dubeta]

Never really understood why people underrate kobes peak

Out of all the players mentioned... kobe has

- the 3rd highest season average
- the 2nd highest single game record
- won multiple titles without a legendary sidekick
- single handedly won the united states a gold medal in the last game
- outscored a team by himself
- had the 2nd most 60+ point games ever ( over a span of just a few years )



People trippin


Bolded took place while he was losing games and was literally a net negative on the court. Doesnt count.


If you think Kobe had a GOAT peak then so did players like Tmac and Gilbert Arenas :rolleyes:

[kamil]

T-Mac had one hell of a year in 02/03.

[LEFT4DEAD]

wtf, when did LeBron have 41 ppg finals? Or average 38 points in a season? Or win three championships in a row averaging astonishing numbers? MJ's peak is twice as impressive as Lebron's
Weak era my son. MJ had to wait for Magic to **** that HIV positive bitch with no condom on, Bird to hurt his back and Bad boys to get old in order to win a ring. He played in a weak era and had the most stacked team too.

[Kvnzhangyay]

1. Jordan 90
2. Shaq 00
3. Hakeem 93
4. LeBron 13

5. Kareem 77
6. Duncan 02
7. Magic 90
8. Bird 86
9. Kobe 06
10. Wade 09

[Droid101]

Bolded took place while he was losing games and was literally a net negative on the court. Doesnt count.


Making the playoffs in the West = "losing games"

k bro

[aj1987]

Top5:

-Shaq
-Jordan
-Kareem
-Bird
-Wilt

Rest of the top10:

-Hakeem
-Lebron
-Magic
-Duncan
-last spot is very difficult to pick, you got Barkley, Walton, Moses, Big O, KG, Russell, Kobe, Erving...

Come on, dude. Bird is not an entire tier above Kobe, Duncan, and LeBron. KG's peak is overrated, IMO.

[ClipperRevival]

93-94 Hakeem GOAT peak (MVP, DPOY, FMVP, title)

carrying a team with no other all stars/all nbas

No one has EVER done that. To win all 3 awards in 1 season is unheard of.

[SHAQisGOAT]

No one has EVER done that. To win all 3 awards in 1 season is unheard of.

If DPOY was awarded before 1983 and if FMVP was awarded before 1969... Russell would've done it more than once and Wilt would've done it in 1967.
Bill Walton, in the same "scenario" and if he didn't get injured during the season, most likely also does the same in 1978 (think he would've gotten DPOY and they were big threats to repeat if he didn't go down).

[Magic 32]

i have no agenda here

You don't have time for this stuff pauk.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=353888&page=25

We are still waiting.

[Magic 32]

1. Jordan 90
2. Shaq 00
3. Hakeem 93
4. LeBron 13

5. Kareem 77
6. Duncan 02
7. Magic 90
8. Bird 86
9. Kobe 06
10. Wade 09

Surely it should be Kobe 08.

[dubeta]

Surely it should be Kobe 08.

Kobe shouldnt be on the list.

[Marchesk]

Arguably should be top of the list:

24.1/24.2/7.8 on 68.3% for 68 wins (no other player in history has put up those numbers).

Playoffs:

21.7/29.1/9 on 57.9%, championship

And you factor in 5 game beat down of 8 time defending champion Celtics.

[Magic 32]

Kobe shouldnt be on the list.

Z-level trolling from the youngest member of insidehoops.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/179f4a46321fbc81b050544d98ce59a4/tumblr_mvxbqlOzRm1rnq0vfo1_400.gif

[dubeta]

Arguably should be top of the list:

24.1/24.2/7.8 on 68.3% for 68 wins (no other player in history has put up those numbers).

Playoffs:

21.7/29.1/9 on 57.9%, championship

And you factor in 5 game beat down of 8 time defending champion Celtics.


Difference between regular season and Finals ppg?


Also pace to adjust for inflated stats?


And how many teams were in the league at that season? ie league competitiveness.

[Solefade]

pretty sure i would replace bird with lebron if we're going peak to peak

[VengefulAngel]

pretty sure i would replace bird with lebron if we're going peak to peak

Lebron's peak is actually seriously underrated, I consider 2009, 2012, 2013 his peak levels and they pretty much match anyone.

[Nowitness]

If DPOY was awarded before 1983 and if FMVP was awarded before 1969... Russell would've done it more than once and Wilt would've done it in 1967.
Bill Walton, in the same "scenario" and if he didn't get injured during the season, most likely also does the same in 1978 (think he would've gotten DPOY and they were big threats to repeat if he didn't go down).


Walton has a top 3 peak all time. 18/18/5/5 with impeccable defense and he was a hippie.

[Cold soul]

Top 10 peaks no order.

Jordan
Wilt
Shaq
Kareem
Hakeem
Magic
Duncan
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

[bizil]

Perimeter (no particular order):

MJ
Big O
Lebron
Magic
Bird
Baylor
Kobe
West
Dr. J
Wade

Bigs (no particular order):

Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Hakeem
Barkley
Moses
Duncan
Mailman
KG
McAdoo (my sleeper)

[3ball]

wtf, when did LeBron have 41 ppg finals? Or average 38 points in a season? Or win three championships in a row averaging astonishing numbers? MJ's peak is twice as impressive as Lebron's


:applause: :applause: :applause:

There is no point in Lebron's career where he matches 1987-1993 MJ in both scoring and FG%.

Lebron is always significantly behind in one or the other, or both.

When you couple this type of material statistical gap with the championships, FMVP's, and vastly superior playoff/Finals stats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10668081&postcount=81), Lebron cannot be considered in the same category as MJ.
.

[Prometheus]

:applause: :applause: :applause:

There is no point in Lebron's career where he matches 1987-1993 MJ in both scoring and FG%.

Lebron is always significantly behind in one or the other, or both.

When you couple this type of material statistical gap with the championships, FMVP's, and vastly superior playoff/Finals stats (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10441991&postcount=40), Lebron cannot be considered in the same category as MJ.

:applause:

Michael Jordan is by far the greatest scorer in the history of the game. That he was good at EVERYTHING made him an all-time great, but his one-of-a-kind offensive domination, sustained over almost his entire career, is what distinguishes him as the G.O.A.T.

[showtime2008]

I'll take Lebron over kobe to start a team, but Give me kobe's absolute peak over Lebron's. This is coming from Lakers fan who dislike kobe, his selfish play and his rat face scowl.

I hated kobes personality, but his offense fluidity is a thing of beauty. Add his peak defense and there's only a handful of players you can choose over him.

Prime Kobe use to dismantle a prime Spurs team...nuff said.


MJ
Shaq
Kobe

Top 3, then the rest

[dubeta]

:applause:

Michael Jordan is by far the greatest scorer in the history of the game. That he was good at EVERYTHING made him an all-time great, but his one-of-a-kind offensive domination, sustained over almost his entire career, is what distinguishes him as the G.O.A.T.


This is a flat out lie.

Why did Jordans FG% decline drastically once his athleticism wained? Being a GOAT scorer means being able to score without athleticism

http://i.imgur.com/ciZuJt6.jpg


Also why was Jordans FG% and TS% horrendous in the modern era? In 2001-2003 his TS% was around 47% which is around what Kobe shot this season. He couldnt adjust to todays more advance defenses, with shading and multiple players guarding you.


Finally, Jordan scoring in the 80's, in the fast paced, no zone defense is supposed to be impressive? As a point of reference, Alex English was averaging 28-30 ppg during Jordans time. And we all know he wouldnt be averaging anything close to that in todays era

[Marchesk]

Michael Jordan is by far the greatest scorer in the history of the game.

I don't know how Wilt isn't in the conversation with MJ.

[IncarceratedBob]

This is pretty simple. What's the point of basketball? To put the BALL in the BASKET. So just look at peak scoring output...

1. Wilt
2. Kobe
3. Thompson
4. Baylor
5. Robinson
6. Jordan
7. Pistol Pete

Nobody can argue that those are all ALL TIME GREATS

[ShawkFactory]

This is pretty simple. What's the point of basketball? To put the BALL in the BASKET. So just look at peak scoring output...

1. Wilt
2. Kobe
3. Thompson
4. Baylor
5. Robinson
6. Jordan
7. Pistol Pete

Nobody can argue that those are all ALL TIME GREATS
:biggums:

[greatest-ever]

:lol :roll: at anyone who has Kobe as a top 10 peak.


In order:

Mj
Shaq
Hakeem
LBJ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Duncan
KG


Honorable mentions: Russell, Oscar, Dr J, Drob, Wade

[Nash]

you know kobe's peak is questionable when even has fans can't agree on what year his actual peak was

[ClipperRevival]

If DPOY was awarded before 1983 and if FMVP was awarded before 1969... Russell would've done it more than once and Wilt would've done it in 1967.
Bill Walton, in the same "scenario" and if he didn't get injured during the season, most likely also does the same in 1978 (think he would've gotten DPOY and they were big threats to repeat if he didn't go down).


Good point. But as it stands, he's the only guy to ever do it OFFICIALLY and that carries some series weight. At least for me.

[choppermagic]

It depends on how you define a peak period. If you imagine you are picking a player for one 7 game Finals and that player is playing the very BEST basketball of his life at that very moment, i'd guess

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

Does this mean Bird is better than Lebron, etc. over a career? Not necessarily, but Bird at his best was awesome and his leadership was off the charts too so I'd pick him over Lebron, as an example. Kobe bryant, at his hottest, was just crazy. He's the guy that will hit from any spot on the floor and can literally score 81 on you, if you play the "let him get his, but shut everyone else down" strategy.

I think Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Jordan are obvious because they were monsters at their peak. Shaq was simply a force of nature for one year and Karem, Wilt would not only score on you non-stop, but gran 25 rebounds on your ass too, as well as block your shots.

[Prometheus]

I don't know how Wilt isn't in the conversation with MJ.

Maybe not BY FAR in comparison to Wilt (though certainly far ahead of all others), but Jordan, for his entire career in Chicago, basically led the league in scoring in BOTH the regular season AND the playoffs... every. single. year.

[greatest-ever]

It depends on how you define a peak period. If you imagine you are picking a player for one 7 game Finals and that player is playing the very BEST basketball of his life at that very moment, i'd guess

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

Does this mean Bird is better than Lebron, etc. over a career? Not necessarily, but Bird at his best was awesome and his leadership was off the charts too so I'd pick him over Lebron, as an example. Kobe bryant, at his hottest, was just crazy. He's the guy that will hit from any spot on the floor and can literally score 81 on you, if you play the "let him get his, but shut everyone else down" strategy.

I think Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Jordan are obvious because they were monsters at their peak. Shaq was simply a force of nature for one year and Karem, Wilt would not only score on you non-stop, but gran 25 rebounds on your ass too, as well as block your shots.Kobe went 6-24 in his game 7 of the finals it's weird that he'd be in your top 6-8 for a game 7 of the finals.

[ArbitraryWater]

It depends on how you define a peak period. If you imagine you are picking a player for one 7 game Finals and that player is playing the very BEST basketball of his life at that very moment, i'd guess

Shaq
Wilt
Kareem
Jordan
Magic
Kobe
Bird
Lebron

Does this mean Bird is better than Lebron, etc. over a career? Not necessarily, but Bird at his best was awesome and his leadership was off the charts too so I'd pick him over Lebron, as an example. Kobe bryant, at his hottest, was just crazy. He's the guy that will hit from any spot on the floor and can literally score 81 on you, if you play the "let him get his, but shut everyone else down" strategy.

I think Shaq, Kareem, Wilt, Jordan are obvious because they were monsters at their peak. Shaq was simply a force of nature for one year and Karem, Wilt would not only score on you non-stop, but gran 25 rebounds on your ass too, as well as block your shots.

Weird because LeBron literally has the most points ever scored in a finals game 7

[ClipperRevival]

Mj led the league in scoring for 10 straight years as a Bull if you don't count his 2 year hiatus, that includes his last season in 1998 at age 34.. He is the all time leading scorer in regular season and playoffs. Wilt's playoff avg of 22pg is a huge dip from his regular season numbers while MJ's numbers rose to 33ppg from 30 ppg. He is the greatest scorer ever.

[thefatmiral]

Robinsons peak should be considered. only isnt because he turned over the reigns in the second half of his career.

[ShawkFactory]

Robinsons peak should be considered. only isnt because he turned over the reigns in the second half of his career.
And because he got boned in the playoffs by Hakeem at his peak.

[bizil]

Mj led the league in scoring for 10 straight years as a Bull if you don't count his 2 year hiatus, that includes his last season in 1998 at age 34.. He is the all time leading scorer in regular season and playoffs. Wilt's playoff avg of 22pg is a huge dip from his regular season numbers while MJ's numbers rose to 33ppg from 30 ppg. He is the greatest scorer ever.

When it comes to scoring, MJ, Wilt, and Kareem are the GOAT in their own ways:

MJ- Greatest scorer of all time in terms of total accolades and results.

Kareem- Has scored more points than anybody. And has the most unstoppable weapon of all time with the Skyhook.

Wilt- The most physically dominant scorer of all time. I think even over Shaq because Wilt was faster. NOBODY combined strength, speed, and skill like Wilt.

[3ball]

When it comes to scoring, MJ, Wilt, and Kareem are the GOAT in their own ways:

MJ- Greatest scorer of all time in terms of total accolades and results.

Kareem- Has scored more points than anybody. And has the most unstoppable weapon of all time with the Skyhook.

Wilt- The most physically dominant scorer of all time. I think even over Shaq because Wilt was faster. NOBODY combined strength, speed, and skill like Wilt.
MJ is the only non-big that's compared on-par with bigs, as if MJ was a big himself... a top 5 all-time bigs too.. :pimp:

[thefatmiral]

And because he got boned in the playoffs by Hakeem at his peak.
at least he didnt get swept out by the same team like shaq

[ShawkFactory]

at least he didnt get swept out by the same team like shaq
Shaq was also in his 3rd year, not his absolute peak.

[LAZERUSS]

Mj led the league in scoring for 10 straight years as a Bull if you don't count his 2 year hiatus, that includes his last season in 1998 at age 34.. He is the all time leading scorer in regular season and playoffs. Wilt's playoff avg of 22pg is a huge dip from his regular season numbers while MJ's numbers rose to 33ppg from 30 ppg. He is the greatest scorer ever.

Of course, a "scoring" Chamberlain only played in 52 of his 160 post-season games, and 30 of those were against the greatest defensive player in NBA history (as well as his swarming teammates.) In those 52 games, Wilt averaged 33 ppg, on a .515 FG%, in post-seasons that shot .420 in the same span...or nearly 10 percentage points above the post-season league average.

Furthermore, in those 52 games, he had four of 50+ points (including the ONLY THREE 50+ point games in "must-win" situations...and yes, one of them was against Russell.) In fact, he had 11 40+ point games, and 35 30+ point games...or about 20% of his games were 40+ point games, and two-thirds were 30+.

Oh, and how about his DEFENSE overall in his 160 post-season games?


Wilt's post-season FG% allowed:

59-60:

Kerr regular season FG% against the league: .392
Kerr against Wilt in the playoffs: .294

Dierking regular season FG%: .365
Dierking vs Wilt in the post-season: .333

Russell regular season: .467
Russell vs. Wilt in the post-season: .446


60-61:

Kerr regular season: .397
Kerr vs Wilt: .321

Halbrook regular season: .335
Halbrook vs Wilt: .387


61-62:

Kerr regular season: .443
Kerr vs. Wilt: .376

Russell regular season: .457
Russell vs Wilt: .399


63-64:

Beaty regular season: .444
Beaty vs. Wilt: .520

Russell regular season: .433
Russell vs. Wilt: .386


64-65:

Embry regular season: .456
Embry vs Wilt: .438

Russell regular season: .438
Russell vs. Wilt: .446


65-66:

Russell regular season: .415
Russell vs. Wilt: .424


66-67:

Dierking regular season: .399
Dierking vs Wilt: .427

Russell regular season: .454
Russell vs. Wilt: .358

Thurmond regular season: .437
Thurmond vs. Wilt: .343


67-68:

Bellamy regular season: .541
Bellamy vs. Wilt: .421

Russell regular season: .425
Russell vs. Wilt: .440


68-69:

Thurmond regular season: .410
Thurmond vs Wilt: .392

Beaty regular season: .470
Beaty vs. Wilt: .383

Russell regular season: .433
Russell vs. Wilt: .397


69-70:

Walk regular season: .470
Walk vs Wilt: .395

Fox regular season: .524
Fox vs Wilt: .362

Bellamy regular season: .523
Bellamy vs Wilt: .456

Reed regular season: .507
Reed vs Wilt: .483


70-71:

Boerwinkle regular season: .485
Boerwinkle vs Wilt: .463

Fox regular season: .458
Fox vs Wilt: .434

Kareem regular season: .577
Kareem vs Wilt: .481


71-72:

Ray regular season: .499
Ray vs Wilt: .529

Kareem regular season: .574
Kareem vs Wilt: .457

Lucas regular season: .512
Lucas vs Wilt: .500


72-73:

Awtry regular season: .480
Awtry vs Wilt: .542

Thurmond regular season: .446
Thurmond vs Wilt: .373

Reed regular season: .474
Reed vs Wilt: .493


And of course...he was simply...the GREATEST post-season rebounder of all-time, as well. In his 29 post-season series, 18 of which came against HOF centers...he was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center, and in most he slaughtered them. True, he was outrebounded in one series, by PF Jerry Lucas, 21.0 rpg to 20.0 rpg. BUT, when he faced Lucas as a starting center in the '72 Finals... a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded a 31 year old Lucas, playing 46 mpg...by a staggering 23-10 rpg margin.

So, yes, Chamberlain was, at the very least, the equal of MJ in terms of pure scoring. And if you combine regular seasons, with post-seasons, a peak Wilt was easily the GOAT scorer. And that goes along with being, at worst, the second greatest defensive player in NBA history, and by far, the GOAT rebounder.

[LAZERUSS]

Difference between regular season and Finals ppg?


Also pace to adjust for inflated stats?


And how many teams were in the league at that season? ie league competitiveness.

The difference between his regular season, playoffs, and Finals? Virtually NONE. He OBLITERATED his post-season peers, two of which are two of the three greatest defensive centers in NBA history.

How about this playoff run...

In his first round, and against "only" a decent starting center (Connie Dierking)...he averaged 28 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg (yes, a TRIPLE DOUBLE SERIES), and on a .617 FG% (in a post-season NBA that shot .424...or an unfathomable 19 percentage points above the post-season league average.) In game one of that series, he scored what would be his team's highest post-season game, with 41 points (on 19-30 shooting), and followed that up with a 37 point game on 16-24 shooting. CLEARLY, he COULD have scored MUCH more, but he resumed his passing in the rest of the series, and put up a 16-30-19 game (yes, 19 assists) in game three...and the game recaps had him with as many as 20 blocked shots...or a staggering "unofficial" QUAD-DOUBLE. He also had a KNOWN second TRIPLE DOUBLE, with a 37-27-11 game.

In the EDF's, he took his 68-13 Sixers up against Russell's 60-21 and EIGHT-TIME Defending champion Celtics...and with Wilt just SLAUGHTERING Russell in EVERY single category, he led his Sixers to a 4-1 rout of Boston. In fact, only a poorly played game four loss, by four points, prevented a SWEEP. Then, in game five, Boston jumped out to an early 17 point lead, but with Wilt repeatedly pounding Russell, the Sixers stormed back, and by mid-way thru the 4th quarter, they led by a 131-104 margin...en route to a 140-116 decimation of the Dynasty.

In that deciding game, Wilt outscored Russell by a 29-4 margin (including 22 points in the first half, when the game was still close); outshot Russell from the floor by a 10-16 to 2-5 margin; outassisted Russell by a 13-7 margin (yes, yet ANOTHER TRIPLE DOUBLE...and in a clinching win); and just annihilated Russell on the glass by a 36-21 margin.

Overall, Wilt outscored Russell, per game, by a 21.6 ppg to 10.2 ppg margin; outassisted him by a 10.0 apg to 6.0 apg margin; outshot Russell from the field by a staggering .556 to .358 margin; and just murdered Russell on the glass by an overwhelming 32.0 rpg to 23.4 rpg margin. And, as you can clearly see, he AVERAGED a TRIPLE-DOUBLE series (his SECOND of that post-season.) He also held a 29-8 blocks margin in their known games. Oh, and he not only had THREE Triple-Doubles...he also had a KNOWN QUAD-DOUBLE of 24-32-13-12.

BTW, for those that use "pace" against Wilt...how about his TRB% against Russell in the '67 EDF's... 25.2 to 18.2!


Then, in the Finals, Chamberlain over-powered a PEAK Thurmond (this was Nate's greatest season) in leading his Sixers to a 4-2 series win. He outscored Nate, by a 17.5 ppg to 14.3 ppg margin; outrebounded Thurmond by a 28.5 rpg to 26.7 rpg margin; outassisted Nate by a 6.8 apg to 3.0 apg margin; and outshot Thurmond by an eye-popping .560 to .343 margin (keep in mind that a PEAK Kareem faced an aging Nate in three straight playoff series and shot .486, .428, and .405 against Thurmond.)

True, Wilt's play "declined" against Thurmond from his regular season H2H's, when he pummeled a peak Thurmond by a 20.8 ppg to 13.2 ppg margin; a 25.0 rpg to 21.4 rpg margin; and outshot Nate from the field by an unfathomable .633 to .320 margin.

Overall, in their six H2H's in the Finals, Wilt outscored Nate in five of the six games; outrebounded Thurmond in five of the six games; outassisted Nate in five of the six games; and outshot him from the field in ALL six games.

And, in the clinching game six...Wilt outscored Thurmond, 24-12; outrebounded Nate, 23-22; and outshot him from the field by an 8-13 to 4-13 margin.

THAT was utter domination.


As for "competition"...Wilt's Sixers not only beat a Royals team in the first round with a prime Oscar and a prime Lucas; they routed a 60-21 Celtic team with SIX HOFers; and then wiped out a Warrior team with a peak Thurmond, and a Barry who led the league in scoring at 35.6 ppg.

Think about this...

the Lakers had a prime West, a near prime Baylor...and the two played nearly the entire season...and averaged 29 and 27 ppg. They also had rookie Gail Goodrich, who would be a HOFer; a Walt Hazard, who would average 24 ppg the very next season; an Archie Clark, who would average 20 ppg the very next season; Rudy LaRusso, who averaged 13 ppg, and would average 21 ppg the next season; journeyman Darrall Imhoff, with a 10-13 average; and TWO seven-footers in Mel Counts and Henry Finkle...

and they could only go 36-45!

Imagine the Heat with a prime Lebron, a near-prime Wade, and a solid roster...only going 36-45.

[ClipperRevival]

Of course, a "scoring" Chamberlain only played in 52 of his 160 post-season games, and 30 of those were against the greatest defensive player in NBA history (as well as his swarming teammates.) In those 52 games, Wilt averaged 33 ppg, on a .515 FG%, in post-seasons that shot .420 in the same span...or nearly 10 percentage points above the post-season league average.

Furthermore, in those 52 games, he had four of 50+ points (including the ONLY THREE 50+ point games in "must-win" situations...and yes, one of them was against Russell.) In fact, he had 11 40+ point games, and 35 30+ point games...or about 20% of his games were 40+ point games, and two-thirds were 30+.

Oh, and how about his DEFENSE overall in his 160 post-season games?




And of course...he was simply...the GREATEST post-season rebounder of all-time, as well. In his 29 post-season series, 18 of which came against HOF centers...he was NEVER outrebounded by an opposing center, and in most he slaughtered them. True, he was outrebounded in one series, by PF Jerry Lucas, 21.0 rpg to 20.0 rpg. BUT, when he faced Lucas as a starting center in the '72 Finals... a 35 year old Wilt, playing 47 mpg, outrebounded a 31 year old Lucas, playing 46 mpg...by a staggering 23-10 rpg margin.

So, yes, Chamberlain was, at the very least, the equal of MJ in terms of pure scoring. And if you combine regular seasons, with post-seasons, a peak Wilt was easily the GOAT scorer. And that goes along with being, at worst, the second greatest defensive player in NBA history, and by far, the GOAT rebounder.

Yet, the stats still say he averaged 22 ppg in the playoffs while he averaged 30 ppg in the regular season. That's a serious negative for an atg. To have your numbers dip that much in the playoffs. MJ's went from 30 ppg to 33 ppg in the playoffs. He elevated his game. And this was as "the man", in the modern era, when he was possibly the most popular athlete in the world and got everyone's best every night. He had to shoulder the burden of scoring 30-35 a game, the double and triple teams and still play within the team concept and win. And he was a perimeter player, not a 7 footer who got most of his points only a few feet from the basket.

You can argue that at his peak, Wilt was the better scorer. But overall in the grand scheme of things? Numbers are there for all to see.

[LAZERUSS]

Yet, the stats still say he averaged 22 ppg in the playoffs while he averaged 30 ppg in the regular season. That's a serious negative for an atg. To have your numbers dip that much in the playoffs. MJ's went from 30 ppg to 33 ppg in the playoffs. He elevated his game. And this was as "the man", in the modern era, when he was possibly the most popular athlete in the world and got everyone's best every night. He had to shoulder the burden of scoring 30-35 a game, the double and triple teams and still play within the team concept and win. And he was a perimeter player, not a 7 footer who got most of his points only a few feet from the basket.

You can argue that at his peak, Wilt was the better scorer. But overall in the grand scheme of things? Numbers are there for all to see.

Wilt's roles changed his entire career, but think about this...

a prime Wilt, and before his knee injury, played in 98 playoff games...and 61 of them were against Russell and Thurmond.

Then, think about this...

MJ played a peak "Bad Boys" team in the post-season from '88-90 (and '91..but by 1991 the Pistons were on a sharp decline)...and in those three playoff series, Jordans' scoring and efficiency declined considerably over his regular season numbers.

How about Shaq against the Robinson-led Spurs from '99 thru '02? Sharp declines in scoring and effciency.

And how about a PEAK Kareem, from '71 thru '73, and when facing Thurmond and Wilt in his post-seasons? He literally fell off the cliff in scoring and effciency (a drop of 7 ppg and a an drop from a .563 regular season FG% in that span, to a .456 mark against Nate and Wilt.)

Chamberlain played in 160 post-season games, and 105 were against HOF starting centers, and another 26 against All-Stars...or 131 out of his 160 post-season games against either good, or truly great centers. And again, he only played 52 of his 160 games in his "scoring" seasons.

And this is a HUGE "what-if"...

Wilt only played in ONE post-season series, in his prime ('59-60 thru 67-68) against a Western Division team...and all he did was put up a 39 ppg, 23 rpg, .559 series (in a post-season that shot .420 overall.)

Now, Russell beefed up his post-season stats with FIVE Finals against the Lakers in that span.

Here we go...


Keep in mind that Russell WAS fortunate enough to have faced the Lakers FIVE times in the post-season in that span (actually six, but in the last one, he faced Wilt, and as expected, did absolutely nothing offensively), and it was against LA in which he elevated his playoff scoring and FG%. In fact, remove the Lakers from his post-seasons, and his offensive production would have dropped considerably.

Here were Russell's numbers against LA in those five series:

'62:

Russell averaged 18.9 ppg on a .457 FG% in his regular season against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 22.9 ppg on a .543 FG%. Which included a game seven of 30 points and 40 rebounds.

BTW, against Wilt in the '62 EDF's: 22.0 ppg on a .399 FG%


'63:

Russell averaged 16.8 ppg on a .432 FG% in his regular season.

Against LA in the Finals: 20 ppg on a .467 FG%


'65:

Russell averaged 14.1 ppg on a .438 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 17.8 ppg on a .702 FG% (yes, .702.)

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 15.6 ppg on a .447 FG%


'66:

Russell averaged 12.9 ppg on a .415 FG% against the NBA.

Against LA in the Finals: 23.6 ppg on a .538 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 14.0 ppg on a .423 FG%


'68:

Russell averaged 12.5 ppg on a .425 FG% against the NBA

Against LA in the Finals: 17.3 ppg on a .430 FG%

BTW, against Wilt in the EDF's: 13.7 ppg on a .440 FG%


Oh, and here were Russell's stats in the '69 Finals against Wilt:

Regular season against the NBA: 9.9 ppg on a .433 FG%

Against Wilt in the Finals: 9.0 ppg on a .397 FG%


Again, had Wilt faced the Lakers in any of his nine seasons in the league from '60 thru '68, and he likely would own at least some, (if not a vast majority), playoff and perhaps Finals, scoring records (and perhaps FG% records, as well, since Russell shot .702 against LA in '65.)

And once again, in Wilt's regular seasons, he was facing LA between 7 to 12 games in each season, with an average of about 10.

Also keep in mind that the Lakers were in the Western Conference, and Wilt only had two seasons in the Western Conference from '60 thru '68, and in one of those, his team was so bad, that he didn't make the playoffs, despite a 44.8 ppg season on .528 shooting.


Ok, here we go:

'59-60:

Against the entire NBA that season: 37.6 ppg on a .461 FG%

Against the Lakers in 9 H2H's: 36.8 ppg on a .430 FG%

High games of 41, 41, 41, 45, and 52.


'60-61:

Against the entire NBA: 38.4 ppg on a .509 FG%

Against the Lakers in 10 H2H's: 40.1 ppg on a .506 FG%

High games were 41, 41, 43, 44, 46, and 56 points.


'61-62:

Against the entire NBA: 50.4 ppg on a .506 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2H games: 51.6 ppg on a .503 FG%

High games of 48, 56, 57, 60, 60, and 78 (with 43 rebounds.)


'62-63: Against the entire NBA: 44.8 ppg on a .528 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 48.6 ppg on a .541 FG%

High games of 40, 40, 42, 53, 63, and 72 points.


'63-64: Against the entire NBA: 36.9 ppg on a .524 FG%

Against LA in 12 H2Hs: 44.3 ppg on a .484 FG%

High games of 40, 41, 47, 49, 50, 55, and 59 points.


'64-65: Against the entire NBA: 34.7 ppg on a .510 FG%

Against LA in 8 H2Hs: 29.9 ppg on a .476 FG%

High games of 40, 40, and 41 points.


'65-66: Against the entire NBA: 33.5 ppg on a .540 FG%

Against LA in 10 H2Hs: 40.8 ppg on a .559 FG%

High games of 42, 49, 53, and 65 points.


'66-67: Against the entire NBA: 24.1 ppg on a .683 FG%

Against LA in 9 H2Hs: 26.4 ppg on a .759 FG%

High games of 32, 37, and 39 points.


'67-68: Against the entire NBA: 24.3 ppg on a .595 FG%

Against LA in 7 H2Hs: 28.1 ppg on a .638 FG%

High games of 31, 32, 35, and 53 points.


Overall, in those 86 games:

40 Point Games: 42

50 Point Games: 19

60 Point Games: 7

70 Point Games: 2

High game of 78 points.

Had Wilt had the good fortune to have faced the Lakers in the 60's, and he most certainly would have set post-season scoring and efficiency records.

[ClipperRevival]

Excuses, excuses.

I call it like I see it. Not play "what if" scenarios. You excuse his bad playoff numbers because he faced great players? Well, that's reality in the playoffs. You face other great teams and players. You either rise to the occasion and take it or get outplayed. I know what MJ did. 6/6 in the finals and never extended to a 7th game. I also know what Wilt did. His ppg dropped to 22ppg.

[Odinn]

Tier 1; '91 Jordan / '77 Kareem / '00 Shaq / '94 Hakeem / '86 Bird / '67 Wilt
Tier 2; '03 Duncan / '12 LeBron
Tier 3; '06 Kobe / '87 Magic / '82 Moses / '93 Barkley

Garnett, Robinson, Ewing, Wade, Big O, Walton could be reasoned for being Tier 3. But I have already listed more than 10, so that would be another topic. I'll leave it this way.

[VengefulAngel]

Tier 1; '91 Jordan / '77 Kareem / '00 Shaq / '94 Hakeem / '86 Bird / '67 Wilt
Tier 2; '03 Duncan / '12 LeBron
Tier 3; '06 Kobe / '87 Magic / '82 Moses / '93 Barkley

Garnett, Robinson, Ewing, Wade, Big O, Walton could be reasoned for being Tier 3. But I have already listed more than 10, so that would be another topic. I'll leave it this way.

Lebron deserves to be tier 1, 2009, 2012, 2013 rival most of the tier 1 years.

[3ball]

Lebron deserves to be tier 1, 2009, 2012, 2013 rival most of the tier 1 years.


#delusional

In every single season of Lebron's career, he's trailed 87'-91' MJ significantly in either scoring and/or FG %.

Said another way - Lebron's very best season trails any of MJ's top 5 seasons SIGNIFICANTLY in either PPG and/or FG %.
.

[VengefulAngel]

#delusional

In every single season of Lebron's career, he's trailed 87'-93' MJ significantly in either scoring and/or FG %.

Said another way - Lebron's very best season is significantly behind SEVEN MJ seasons (87'-93') in either scoring and/or FG%.
.

First of all yes MJ is the GOAT, Lebron can't compete with MJ in scoring but Lebron is a better rebounder and playmaker.

[bdreason]

Shaq
Wilt
Hakeem
Kareem
Duncan
MJ
Bird
Magic
LeBron
Moses

[3ball]

First of all yes MJ is the GOAT, Lebron can't compete with MJ in scoring but Lebron is a better rebounder and playmaker.


Lebron's best season is significantly behind 87'-91' MJ in either scoring and/or efficiency.

And Lebron is a better DEFENSIVE rebounder only - MJ is easily the better offensive rebounder, which are more rare than defensive rebounds, and therefore more valuable, especially from a backcourt player (more value-add).

Regarding playmaking - MJ averaged more assists in the playoffs and Finals thru 30 years old, and he did it while undertaking a 25% higher scoring load in the playoffs (35 PPG to Lebron's 28 PPG) and a 50% higher scoring load in the Finals (36 to 24), all on better efficiency.. This is a testament to his considerably better playmaking ability: same or greater assists, less turnovers, far more scoring, on better efficiency = far better playmaking.

Also, the smaller passing lanes of no-spacing environments (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866426&postcount=105) required greater passing skill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11221619&postcount=23) than today's wide open spacing.. Spacing simply makes passing easier - not only does spacing make passing easier, but the NBA changed the rules specifically (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to enhance ball movement, including drive-and-kicks.. The more favorable regulatory environment and the spacing causes today's passers to be overrated compared to passers in the no-spacing eras.

[warriorfan]

Lebron's best season is significantly behind 87'-91' MJ in either scoring and/or efficiency.

And Lebron is a better DEFENSIVE rebounder only - MJ is easily the better offensive rebounder, which are more rare than defensive rebounds, and therefore more valuable, especially from a backcourt player (more value-add).

Regarding playmaking - MJ averaged more assists in the playoffs and Finals thru 30 years old, and he did it while undertaking a 25% higher scoring load in the playoffs (35 PPG to Lebron's 28 PPG) and a 50% higher scoring load in the Finals (36 to 24), all on better efficiency.. This is a testament to his considerably better playmaking ability: same or greater assists, less turnovers, far more scoring, on better efficiency = far better playmaking.

Also, the smaller passing lanes of no-spacing environments (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866426&postcount=105) required greater passing skill (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11221619&postcount=23) than today's wide open spacing.. Spacing simply makes passing easier - not only does spacing make passing easier, but the NBA changed the rules specifically (http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html) to enhance ball movement, including drive-and-kicks.. The more favorable regulatory environment and the spacing causes today's passers to be overrated compared to passers in the no-spacing eras.



:cheers:

[SHAQisGOAT]

Tier 1; '91 Jordan / '77 Kareem / '00 Shaq / '94 Hakeem / '86 Bird / '67 Wilt
Tier 2; '03 Duncan / '12 LeBron
Tier 3; '06 Kobe / '87 Magic / '82 Moses / '93 Barkley

Garnett, Robinson, Ewing, Wade, Big O, Walton could be reasoned for being Tier 3. But I have already listed more than 10, so that would be another topic. I'll leave it this way.

I agree with most of that :applause:

[Psileas]

Excuses, excuses.

I call it like I see it. Not play "what if" scenarios. You excuse his bad playoff numbers because he faced great players? Well, that's reality in the playoffs. You face other great teams and players. You either rise to the occasion and take it or get outplayed. I know what MJ did. 6/6 in the finals and never extended to a 7th game. I also know what Wilt did. His ppg dropped to 22ppg.

It's not Wilt's fault that you don't know how to see deeper and realize how easily stats can be manipulated.

But, since you "call it like you see it", since when are averages like 23/24/4 "bad numbers"? And when was Wilt outplayed?

Not to mention the known epidemic of "certain" posters who fail to perform simple number rounding (22.54 rounds UP to 23 - I guess this doesn't serve your agenda).

[LAZERUSS]

Excuses, excuses.

I call it like I see it. Not play "what if" scenarios. You excuse his bad playoff numbers because he faced great players? Well, that's reality in the playoffs. You face other great teams and players. You either rise to the occasion and take it or get outplayed. I know what MJ did. 6/6 in the finals and never extended to a 7th game. I also know what Wilt did. His ppg dropped to 22ppg.

What were MJ's "excuses" for going 1-9 in his first three playoff series? Or having a losing playoff record in his first six? Or being the only player that was completely refreshed going into the '95 playoffs, and still losing (with a roster that had gone 55-27 the year before without him...sans Grant)? Or shooting .455, .427, and .415 from the field in his last three Finals?

Wilt was single-handedly carrying last place rosters to within an eyelash of beating the greatest, most loaded, dynasty in NBA history. He took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss, in a series in which he absolutely carpet-bombed Russell with a 30-31 .555 series, which included a game seven of 30-32 on an .800 FG%.

And when he was finally given an equal supporting cast, that was healthy, he led his team to a rout over the eight-time defending champs...in a series in which he destroyed Russell in every single category.

A prime, relatively healthy Wilt averaged 30-27-5 .515 (and likely 8+ bpg) over the course of his first 67 playoff games (and that .515 FG% was about a full 10 percentage point above the post-season league average in that same span.) Not only that but he was ELEVATING his SCORING in his BIGGEST games in that span. To give you an idea...in Wilt's 23 "must-win" games, his scoring average was 31.1 ppg, which was just behind MJ's 31.3 ppg in his "must win" playoff games (only Lebron at 31.8 ppg has a higher one.)

Not only that, but Wilt was DRAMATICALLY reducing his OPPOSING centers numbers. And, of course, Wilt was just SLAUGHTERING them on the glass. And a peak Wilt was, quite simply, and by far, the greatest passing center in NBA history.

[feyki]

GOAT Candidates
_________________________________________
67 Chamberlain , 72 Abdul Jabbar , 91 Jordan

TOP 5 Candidates
__________________________________
62 Russell , 94 Akeem , 03 Duncan


TOP 10 Candidates
______________________________

64 Oscar , 00 Shaquille , 87 Magic , 50 Mikan
, 62 Elgin , 84 Bird , 09 Lebron

[Gileraracer]

Lebron has arguably the best peak of all the perimeter players

When was Lebrons peak? The year Jason Terry score more ppg in a finals series than he did or the year he shot 39% on 33 attempts?

[zeerghit]

When was Lebrons peak? The year Jason Terry score more ppg in a finals series than he did or the year he shot 39% on 33 attempts?

hard to believe ur brains will ever peak

[riseagainst]

When was Lebrons peak? The year Jason Terry score more ppg in a finals series than he did or the year he shot 39% on 33 attempts?


:oldlol:

[Ca$H]

2015-2016 Curry = GOAT Peak.

[zeerghit]

2015-2016 Curry = GOAT Peak.

top10 for sure

[VengefulAngel]

am I the only one who weigh's defense in?

[feyki]

top10 for sure


Probably , we should wait for playoffs to mention that .

[TomCat]

I also like to rate Choke factor in too.

[feyki]

am I the only one who weigh's defense in?

Just look at my list :coleman:

[VengefulAngel]

Just look at my list :coleman:

Your list is the best so far without a doubt.

[feyki]

Your list is the best so far without a doubt.


Interesting . What's your list ?

[zeerghit]

Just look at my list :coleman:

i think shaq is too low

[feyki]

i think shaq is too low

2000 or 2001 Shaquille definitely has top 7-8 peak at least . Probably , With Lebron and Mikan , they builds top 9 peak of basketball history in my mind .

But i personally don't think he was better than 94 Hakeem or 62 Russell . Two greatest defensive players ever play the game .

[HurricaneKid]

I LAUGH at the notion that 06/08/ANY version of Kobe is anywhere NEAR the top 10 seasons ever. Its an insane argument. Every other person in the top 10 won a Championship, MVP, FMVP, etc. Kobe leads his squad to a 7 seed and quits in the playoffs and that is somehow in the same conversation?

Kobestans ruin everything.

[Wade's Rings]

I LAUGH at the notion that 06/08/ANY version of Kobe is anywhere NEAR the top 10 seasons ever. Its an insane argument. Every other person in the top 10 won a Championship, MVP, FMVP, etc. Kobe leads his squad to a 7 seed and quits in the playoffs and that is somehow in the same conversation?

Kobestans ruin everything.

You can't tell the difference between being a better player and having the better season?

[bizil]

No particular order:

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Bron
Kobe
Big O
Hakeem

[bizil]

I see Steph's name come up some. Typically when comparing players, I tend to compare perimeter guys to each other. And bigs to each other. The problem Curry is going to have is being compared to bigger perimeter icons like MJ, Bird, Magic, Bron, Kobe, and the Big O.

Even if the scoring is a wash and the passing ability is close, areas such as size, versatility, and defense will come into play. Peak wise, smaller guards under 6'4 like AI, Zeke, Tiny, etc. couldn't really match the bigger or supersized perimeter legends peak wise.

BUT with guys like Curry and Westbrook around, they can CHALLENGE the bigger perimeter legends peak wise more than any other smaller guards could. They have elements than AI, Zeke, or Tiny didn't have..

[choppermagic]

How are we defining "PEAKS"? One season? One stretch of games?

No particular Order,

Shaq
Jordan
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe (some stretches he was unbelievable).

If a "peak" can be a month, then I'm adding Linsanity too. For the sheer global impact alone.

[soots]

Peak to me is taking a bunch of misfits and taking the dump on the entire league and winning the chip.

93-94 Hakeem
03 Duncan
06 Wade
11 Dirk

If you want amazing empty stats, go look at Karl Malone, Magic Shaq, 80s Hakeem etc. They had more than enough tools to win a chip.

[ArbitraryWater]

2000 or 2001 Shaquille definitely has top 7-8 peak at least . Probably , With Lebron and Mikan , they builds top 9 peak of basketball history in my mind .

But i personally don't think he was better than 94 Hakeem or 62 Russell . Two greatest defensive players ever play the game .

:roll: :roll:

[Wade's Rings]

Peak to me is taking a bunch of misfits and taking the dump on the entire league and winning the chip.

93-94 Hakeem
03 Duncan
06 Wade
11 Dirk

If you want amazing empty stats, go look at Karl Malone, Magic Shaq, 80s Hakeem etc. They had more than enough tools to win a chip.

So those are your Top 4 Peaks ever? :biggums:

If not can you list your top 10?

[robby712]

I assume we are talking about the best year of their careers. I am not going to try and rate them because it's difficult to compare a PG to a C and so on. Also, I consider their ability to impact a team at their peak the most important criteria.

Jordan
Shaq
Lebron
Kareem
Olajuwon
Duncan
Wade
Magic
Bird
Kobe

All of them are good -> excellent scorers, playmakers and defenders. All of them are winners. All of them have won championships at their peaks. I've seen all of them take over a game, and not only offensively, but also as a leader, a defender or a facilitator.

And before any comments, I know I don't have anyone from the 60's. IMO they are hard to rate, I have seen little footage of them playing, and I believe that the level of play was not as high as it was from the 80's ->. But that is only my opinion, feel free to judge.

[Wade's Rings]

I assume we are talking about the best year of their careers. I am not going to try and rate them because it's difficult to compare a PG to a C and so on. Also, I consider their ability to impact a team at their peak the most important criteria.

Jordan
Shaq
Lebron
Kareem
Olajuwon
Duncan
Wade
Magic
Bird
Kobe

All of them are good -> excellent scorers, playmakers and defenders. All of them are winners. All of them have won championships at their peaks. I've seen all of them take over a game, and not only offensively, but also as a leader, a defender or a facilitator.

And before any comments, I know I don't have anyone from the 60's. IMO they are hard to rate, I have seen little footage of them playing, and I believe that the level of play was not as high as it was from the 80's ->. But that is only my opinion, feel free to judge.

So you consider '06 Wade's Peak?

[robby712]

So you consider '06 Wade's Peak?

I think it's more debatable than most people think between his 06 and 09 seasons. I mean yeah, he scored 3 ppg more in 09, but it was a shit team and he shot almost 4 times more than in 06, when he had Shaq on his team also. I consider that version of Wade to be more athletic, not as strong, but faster and more explosive. His mid-range game was better in 09, but his FT% was better in 06, and his mid-range was very good in the Playoffs and Finals. He was just unstoppable that year. It's a shame he had those problems in 07 and 08.

[feyki]

Peak to me is taking a bunch of misfits and taking the dump on the entire league and winning the chip.

93-94 Hakeem
03 Duncan
06 Wade
11 Dirk

If you want amazing empty stats, go look at Karl Malone, Magic Shaq, 80s Hakeem etc. They had more than enough tools to win a chip.

Intelligent people , who's wants the truths , want to know "who has better impact on the court" . I think it's different thing than looking at stats .

But with addition of 75 Rick Barry , those players have most impressive playoffs runs in nba history .

[Cold soul]

No order:

Jordan
Hakeem
Kareem
Wilt
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Lebron
Kobe
Duncan

[Odinn]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11226585&postcount=77


Tier 1; '91 Jordan / '77 Kareem / '00 Shaq / '94 Hakeem / '86 Bird / '67 Wilt
Tier 2; '03 Duncan / '12 LeBron
Tier 3; '06 Kobe / '87 Magic / '82 Moses / '93 Barkley

Garnett, Robinson, Ewing, Wade, Big O, Walton could be reasoned for being Tier 3. But I have already listed more than 10, so that would be another topic. I'll leave it this way.

There's no creative matter left for these all-time talks...

[Cold soul]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11226585&postcount=77



There's no creative matter left for these all-time talks...

Kobe peak is same tier as Duncan.

[GrapeApe]

Kobe peak is same tier as Duncan.

Duncan's 2003 title run: 25/15/5 with 3.3 bpg on 53%. I don't think Kobe ever quite reached that level.

[VengefulAngel]

Duncan's 2003 title run: 25/15/5 with 3.3 bpg on 53%. I don't think Kobe ever quite reached that level.

I disagree but I can understand why as it's quite close to me. I've always found it hard to judge Kobe in general because how his offense is created.

[JebronLames]

Peak to me is taking a bunch of misfits and taking the dump on the entire league and winning the chip.

93-94 Hakeem
03 Duncan
06 Wade
11 Dirk

If you want amazing empty stats, go look at Karl Malone, Magic Shaq, 80s Hakeem etc. They had more than enough tools to win a chip.
13 LeBron needs to be included in that list

[Cold soul]

Duncan's 2003 title run: 25/15/5 with 3.3 bpg on 53%. I don't think Kobe ever quite reached that level.

I think he did some will disagree though. 03 Duncan was unreal though he did most with so little talent around him that season special stuff.