Map: These are the world

[MavsSuperFan]

http://i.imgur.com/GDaEgdZ.png

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/04/14/map-these-are-the-worlds-least-religious-countries/

[QUOTE]The world's most populous country is also the globe's least religious. According to a new study, 90 percent of all Chinese consider themselves to be atheists or not to be religious.

The survey of 65 countries, conducted by Gallup International and the WI Network of Market Research, is based on 63,898 interviews. China tops the list of the world's least religious nations by far; it's followed by countries in Europe

[Prometheus]

I'm honestly ashamed to be a United States citizen.

:facepalm

Pathetic.

[MavsSuperFan]

Interesting how with the US and china being outliers the more prosperous a nation the less religious it is.

[MavsSuperFan]

I'm honestly ashamed to be a United States citizen.

:facepalm

Pathetic.
Why we da richest:pimp: :pimp:

[KingBeasley08]

Goddamn Bible Belt bringing us down :facepalm

[Patrick Chewing]

Godless heathens. No wonder they eat their young and dogs and cats over there in China town.

[fiddy]

gotta immigrate to the Netherlands

[KingBeasley08]

Godless heathens. No wonder they eat their young and dogs and cats over there in China town.
Please, with the exception of China, the less religious countries are all prosperous


Hell, even in the US, the most religious parts happen to also be the most economically backwards. Mississippi is a third world shithole, let's be real

[Akrazotile]

Interesting how with the US and china being outliers the more prosperous a nation the less religious it is.


OP do you know what the most prosperous ethnic group per capita in the world is by any chance?

[Akrazotile]

Please, with the exception of China, the less religious countries are all prosperous


Hell, even in the US, the most religious parts happen to also be the most economically backwards. Mississippi is a third world shithole, let's be real


Do you have a map of which countries have the highest incidences of depression and suicide?

[RightToCensor]

You atheists need to take your ass out of the States.

In God We Trust

[KingBeasley08]

Do you have a map of which countries have the highest incidences of depression and suicide?
I don't. You can put one up if you have it

[DonDadda59]

Really surprised at Israel being so high. But then again, after the Holocaust... who could blame them for being less than convinced of that higher power bullshit?

[Patrick Chewing]

No data on the Middle East, huh??


Gee I wonder.

[DonDadda59]

No data on the Middle East, huh??


Gee I wonder.

They're religious as shit... which is why the region is a bastion of knowledge and economic prosperity.

[gts]

They're religious as shit... which is why the region is a bastion of knowledge and economic prosperity.

They killed all the Atheists :lol

[Akrazotile]

Really surprised at Israel being so high. But then again, after the Holocaust... who could blame them for being less than convinced of that higher power bullshit?


Many jews, famous ones - freud, einstein, bob dylan etc - or otherwise do not live religious lives but recognize that belief in a higher power is simply healthier for many people than endless materialistic competition in a rat race which by definition only a small number of people can win.

To each their own.


Doesnt mean you have to acquiesce to all religious values as part of a nation's secular law. If you prefer secular approaches to certain policies, that's fair. Debate it and vote on it. But really what does anyone get for attacking religious people?

Can you imagine if some rich celebrity came out and mocked poor people? Hed be shredded by all the same people who seem to obtain security by publicly mocking religious people. I dont see the difference.

[L.A.Showtime]

I'm honestly ashamed to be a United States citizen.

:facepalm

Pathetic.

Agreed.

[Patrick Chewing]

They're religious as shit... which is why the region is a bastion of knowledge and economic prosperity.


I want to live there one day.

[MavsSuperFan]

Really surprised at Israel being so high. But then again, after the Holocaust... who could blame them for being less than convinced of that higher power bullshit?
Almost all jewish people I know are not religious.

Secular jews that will eat bacon. They are culturally jewish. I dont think its related to the holocaust lol

[DonDadda59]

Many jews, famous ones - freud, einstein, bob dylan etc - or otherwise do not live religious lives but recognize that belief in a higher power is simply healthier for many people than endless materialistic competition in a rat race which by definition only a small number of people can win.

To each their own.


Doesnt mean you have to acquiesce to all religious values as part of a nation's secular law. If you prefer secular approaches to certain policies, that's fair. Debate it and vote on it. But really what does anyone get for attacking religious people?

Can you imagine if some rich celebrity came out and mocked poor people? Hed be shredded by all the same people who seem to obtain security by publicly mocking religious people. I dont see the difference.

Not a rap fan I take it. Chris Brown don't f*ck with broke nigguhs.


I want to live there one day.


Insha'Allah :bowdown:


Almost all jewish people I know are not religious.

Secular jews that will eat bacon. They are culturally jewish.

Faking the funk. Counterfeit nigguhs.

[Droid101]

They're religious as shit... which is why the region is a bastion of knowledge and economic prosperity.
#rekt

[KingBeasley08]

Almost all jewish people I know are not religious.

Secular jews that will eat bacon. They are culturally jewish. I dont think its related to the holocaust lol
This is true for almost Jew I've met and I grew up in an area with a heavy Jewish population

[christian1923]

Is hating on religion the new cool thing to do? Why you guys all fitting in with that

[Akrazotile]

Not a rap fan I take it. Chris Brown don't f*ck with broke nigguhs.




Not talking bout b-list hip hoppers that nobody takes seriously anyway.

Talking bout the Pitt's, DiCaprio's, Beyonce's, and other A-list limousine liberal celebrities. Imagine if they started talking shit about poor people? Their liberal stanbase would have a got damn mass aneurism of anger. But talk shit about religious people, many of whom ARE poor? Ah, that's coo. They deserve it for believing in a God. #Tolerance.

[Bosnian Sajo]

http://i.imgur.com/Dn48wcr.png




Keyword being "percent of respondents". Considering they only did 65k interviews in 65 different countries (assume 1k in each country), this chart means jack shit.

[Nowitness]

Even though this would be great the data is corrupt.

Not alligning with a religion does not make you an Atheist. My parents according to this data would be Atheists even though they believe in God. I live in the UK, there is no way more than 25% of the population are Atheists.

This is just religious propaganda scaring people.

As for China they have never been a religious country in the sense of something like France/America...

As for Korea if it is N. Korea then it is the most religious country in the world.

[MavsSuperFan]

Is hating on religion the new cool thing to do? Why you guys all fitting in with that
who is hating on religion its a statistical study. Are you going to say claiming smoking causes cancer is hating on tobacco?

[MavsSuperFan]

Keyword being "percent of respondents". Considering they only did 65k interviews in 65 different countries (assume 1k in each country), this chart means jack shit.


Thats much more comprehensive than most statistical studies. As long as the sample is random that is a very comprehensive study. No poll actually asks 100% of people :lol

[MavsSuperFan]

Even though this would be great the data is corrupt.

Not alligning with a religion does not make you an Atheist. My parents according to this data would be Atheists even though they believe in God. I live in the UK, there is no way more than 25% of the population are Atheists.

This is just religious propaganda scaring people.

As for China they have never been a religious country in the sense of something like France/America...

As for Korea if it is N. Korea then it is the most religious country in the world.

They are trying to differentiate between people whose lives are affected very little by religion and those whose lives are religious.

Eg. I go to church about 4-5 times a year. Weddings, Christmas, Easter, etc

Religious considerations do not affect my daily choices in a direct manner.

There are people that go to church weekly or more and religion affects their daily behavior.

Eg. dietary restrictions or praying 5 times a day.

If you are a jewish person that only refrains from eating pork during Passover and wears a yamaka during weddings and funerals you are not very religious.

If you only follow religious customs during special occasions you are not very religious.

[Akrazotile]

Mavs I have a question for you. You seem to feel superior to religion and religious people.

Here's the definition of religion:

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."


So youre white, right? And you believe enslaving other races is wrong, I would assume. Correct?

Why?

Do you have a rationale that is more logical and concurrent with the reality of competitive evolution? If you use words like moral and ethical please define for me how you achieve any sense of reason to attach to them from a scientific, evolutionary standpoint.

From a purely natural evolutionary scientific standpoint, the majority race has only to gain and nothing to lose from slavery. It's not as if there's some man in the sky who is objectively condemning it. So is your reason for being against slavery scientific... Or religious?


Dondadda you feel free to answer as well.

[DonDadda59]

Mavs I have a question for you. You seem to feel superior to religion and religious people.

Here's the definition of religion:

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."


So youre white, right? And you believe enslaving other races is wrong, I would assume. Correct?

Why?

Do you have a rationale that is more logical and concurrent with the reality of competitive evolution? If you use words like moral and ethical please define for me how you achieve any sense of reason to attach to them from a scientific, evolutionary standpoint.

From a purely natural evolutionary scientific standpoint, the majority race has only to gain and nothing to lose from slavery. It's not as if there's some man in the sky who is objectively condemning it. So is your reason for being against slavery scientific... Or religious?


Dondadda you feel free to answer as well.

LORD knows that's not true. :oldlol:


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

-Exodus 21:2-6

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

-Leviticus 25:44-46

And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.

-Exodus 21:7-11

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

-Exodus 21:20-21

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

-Ephesians 6:5

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

-1 Timothy 6:1-2

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

-Luke 12:47-48

Southern Baptist preachers (like Jesse James' father Robert, co-founder of William Jewell College) during the Antebellum period used bible verses like the above to justify the institution of slavery, especially the ones from the NT. In their view, it was religiously moral and mandated by GOD that slavery was just.

[NumberSix]

LORD knows that's not true. :oldlol:


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

-Exodus 21:2-6

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

-Leviticus 25:44-46

And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.

-Exodus 21:7-11

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

-Exodus 21:20-21

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

-Ephesians 6:5

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

-1 Timothy 6:1-2

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

-Luke 12:47-48

Southern Baptist preachers (like Jesse James' father Robert, co-founder of William Jewell College) during the Antebellum period used bible verses like the above to justify the institution of slavery, especially the ones from the NT. In their view, it was religiously moral and mandated by GOD that slavery was just.
What's not true? He said there ISNT a man in the sky who is objectively condemning slavery. It would seem that you are in complete agreement with that.

[~primetime~]

Even though this would be great the data is corrupt.

Not alligning with a religion does not make you an Atheist. My parents according to this data would be Atheists even though they believe in God. I live in the UK, there is no way more than 25% of the population are Atheists.

This is just religious propaganda scaring people.

As for China they have never been a religious country in the sense of something like France/America...

As for Korea if it is N. Korea then it is the most religious country in the world.
This, I believe in a higher power, but I am not the slightest bit "religious"...I would qualify as an "atheist" here but I am far from that.


China's numbers should really be disregarded, they do NOT have freedom of religion in that country, you can actually be put to death for worshiping a certain way. Them saying "atheist" is probably more like pleading the 5th.

[Nanners]

China's numbers should really be disregarded, they do NOT have freedom of religion in that country, you can actually be put to death for worshiping a certain way. Them saying "atheist" is probably more like pleading the 5th.

what?? source please

[rufuspaul]

Many jews, famous ones - freud, einstein, bob dylan etc - or otherwise do not live religious lives but recognize that belief in a higher power is simply healthier for many people than endless materialistic competition in a rat race which by definition only a small number of people can win.


Dylan is actually quite religious. The average ISHer is just like the rest of the young sheeple, thinking that only an idiot could have any sort of spiritual beliefs or practices. Einstein, Gandhi, MLK, Pope Francis, the Dalai Llama, they're all ****ing idiots compared to the average ISHer. It's a common theme among young adults. Belittling people of faith helps them feel intellectually superior. Good luck with that ISH.

[DonDadda59]

What's not true? He said there ISNT a man in the sky who is objectively condemning slavery. It would seem that you are in complete agreement with that.

Indeed. :applause:

[Dresta]

LORD knows that's not true. :oldlol:


If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever.

-Exodus 21:2-6

However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way.

-Leviticus 25:44-46

And if a man sells his daughter to be a female slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who has betrothed her to himself, then he shall let her be redeemed. He shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt deceitfully with her. And if he has betrothed her to his son, he shall deal with her according to the custom of daughters. If he takes another wife, he shall not diminish her food, her clothing, and her marriage rights. And if he does not do these three for her, then she shall go out free, without paying money.

-Exodus 21:7-11

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

-Exodus 21:20-21

Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.

-Ephesians 6:5

Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them.

-1 Timothy 6:1-2

The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given."

-Luke 12:47-48

Southern Baptist preachers (like Jesse James' father Robert, co-founder of William Jewell College) during the Antebellum period used bible verses like the above to justify the institution of slavery, especially the ones from the NT. In their view, it was religiously moral and mandated by GOD that slavery was just.Sorry, but why not tell both sides if you're going to blame the South on religion? The people in the North most keen on eliminating slavery were generally pious religious devotees - the Quakers were petitioning Congress from the off and were quickly pushed under the rug for the sake of compromise. Most Americans cared far more about preserving the Union than abolishing slavery, and they viewed the abolitionists as fanatics as a result. So the fact is that, although Christianity was used to justify slavery in the South, it was Christianity that led to the strongest moral reactions to slavery in the North.

Gee, without the fanatics of the North and South driving antagonisms, i don't even think the Civil War would've broken out, certainly not when it did, at least. It just shows that non-religious are more willing to compromise their morality for personal gain, whatever that morality may be. Which makes sense considering there is no real objective basis for morality - it can only be accepted on faith (or along the basis of efficacy, but then again, this leads to moral compromises over things like slavery) - this makes it rather malleable.

[~primetime~]

what?? source please
I'm on my phone, China puts thousands of people to death every year, more than the rest of the world combined. You can be put to death for political and religious views from what I remember reading.

They don't have freedom of religion, so then answering a certain way on a poll like this probably isn't accurate.

[DonDadda59]

Sorry, but why not tell both sides if you're going to blame the South on religion? The people in the North most keen on eliminating slavery were generally pious religious devotees - the Quakers were petitioning Congress from the off and were quickly pushed under the rug for the sake of compromise. Most Americans cared far more about preserving the Union than abolishing slavery, and they viewed the abolitionists as fanatics as a result. So the fact is that, although Christianity was used to justify slavery in the South, it was Christianity that led to the strongest moral reactions to slavery in the North.

Gee, without the fanatics of the North and South driving antagonisms, i don't even think the Civil War would've broken out, certainly not when it did, at least. It just shows that non-religious are more willing to compromise their morality for personal gain, whatever that morality may be. Which makes sense considering there is no real objective basis for morality - it can only be accepted on faith (or along the basis of efficacy, but then again, this leads to moral compromises over things like slavery) - this makes it rather malleable.

Where did I blame the South for religion? :confusedshrug:

Just pointing out the fact that Southern preachers, slave owners, politicians, etc justified the institution of slavery in part by using the word of GOD.

[LJJ]

China's numbers should really be disregarded, they do NOT have freedom of religion in that country, you can actually be put to death for worshiping a certain way. Them saying "atheist" is probably more like pleading the 5th.

The numbers in regards to China should be disregarded for a different reason too. Chinese people are definitely very spiritual. Much more than people in western Europe at least. They believe in the supernatural, there are many spiritual rituals and the majority of Chinese take this really seriously. Call it "Chinese folk religion" if you will. It's alive and well. But there is no church and it doesn't fit in the western concept of religion, and thus Chinese people are atheist. But that's wrong because their spirituality has the same function as religion.

Anyway, you are right that there is no freedom or religion in China, but there definitely is religion. You are perfectly free to practice the five legal religions: Daoism, Buddhism, Catholicism, Protestantism and Islam. However, the government is very skittish of any new type of religious movement, especially if that movement includes some kind of political view. If you are an active, proselytizing member of what the Chinese government deems to be a cult, you are definitely at risk of ending up in a work rehabilitation prison camp. Execution for religion is not common though, that's very speculative. At the same time, these religious cults are also a big source of crime and violence in China.

[warriorfan]

Hong Kong makes sense if I was born with a tiny pee pee I wouldn't believe in God as well

[Dresta]

Where did I blame the South for religion? :confusedshrug:

Just pointing out the fact that Southern preachers, slave owners, politicians, etc justified the institution of slavery in part by using the word of GOD.
I didn't say that: i just meant blame the attitudes of the South on religion (shortened to 'the South' for convenience).

It's a valid point, but no less valid than that the movement to abolish slavery in America invoked God and Christianity as their moral guide as well at least as often (if not more).

Nor is the Bible strictly the word of God. I am far from being a Christian, but its doctrine is really far more nuanced than you are making out, and also the very foundation upon which our civilisation grew. You are more indebted to Christianity than you know, and you haven't really got a choice in the matter :lol - Freedom of conscience, the 'Rights of Man', and an innate belief in human dignity (i.e. of each individual) are all heavily rooted in the Christian faith (they had been slowly developing for a millennia before the US founding, which was an attempt to enshrine and protect these beliefs). Basically, the ambivalent nature of Christianity gave birth to modern secularism - the entire Western world would be unimaginably different without it. This is what Nietzsche meant when he said 'God is Dead' and called for a 'Revaluation of all values': modern science had made belief in the Christian God untenable, and though this had not been recognised yet, it would create a huge vacuum that would result in unprecedented war and conflict, largely in attempts to enforce new moral valuations (see the 20th century).

It is no coincidence that it was the Germans and Russians and French and Italians and Spanish who all ended up attempting to create new supreme valuation to replace the Christian God and all the securities it brings, while the Americans and English stuck to their Christian morals in a most dedicated fashion - why is this? Because Americans and the English are puritanical by nature, and thus the most dedicated natural adherents to Christian morality.

[BigNBAfan]

I sneezed the other day and someone said god bless you - i had to resist slappingher

[bagelred]

the graph makes it look like the average American is richest. They aren't. You have to remember in America, all the wealth is at the very top. Take those people away. And we probably closer to where Italy is.

[KingBeasley08]

the graph makes it look like the average American is richest. They aren't. You have to remember in America, all the wealth is at the very top. Take those people away. And we probably closer to where Italy is.
Lol not even close. America is actually very rich. Yes, our mean average income is the highest in the world because of our elite 1% but even our average median income is third or fourth highest in the world. Take into consideration that cost of living is less here than the countries above us (Norway etc) and Americans have either the highest or one of the highest levels of purchasing power in the world

[~primetime~]

Lol not even close. America is actually very rich. Yes, our mean average income is the highest in the world because of our elite 1% but even our average median income is third or fourth highest in the world. Take into consideration that cost of living is less here than the countries above us (Norway etc) and Americans have either the highest or one of the highest levels of purchasing power in the world
yep US one of the few countries in the world where the poor people are fat and the rich people are skinny. For the majority of the world it's the opposite.

[MavsSuperFan]

Mavs I have a question for you. You seem to feel superior to religion and religious people.

Here's the definition of religion:

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."


So youre white, right? And you believe enslaving other races is wrong, I would assume. Correct?

Why?

Do you have a rationale that is more logical and concurrent with the reality of competitive evolution? If you use words like moral and ethical please define for me how you achieve any sense of reason to attach to them from a scientific, evolutionary standpoint.

From a purely natural evolutionary scientific standpoint, the majority race has only to gain and nothing to lose from slavery. It's not as if there's some man in the sky who is objectively condemning it. So is your reason for being against slavery scientific... Or religious?


Dondadda you feel free to answer as well.


Mavs I have a question for you. You seem to feel superior to religion and religious people.
I do, there is no evidence that religion is true, and a lot of evidence that specific assertions of many religions are not true. And yet many people base their lives around a literary texts with these inaccuracies.


Here's the definition of religion:

"A religion is an organized collection of beliefs, cultural systems, and world views that relate humanity to an order of existence."

Just to be clear i object to the lack of evidence and the process from which those beliefs were derived.

If we find out decades later that everything science says about the physical universe is wrong, that is fine because the scientific process used to formulate those beliefs and conclusions were sound. It was based on the evidence we could observe. Eg.The big bang released an unimaginable amount of energy. Energy can be converted into matter within stars and when stars explode. If we eventually find out that is wrong, then that is fine.

Religion is authority by fiat.


So youre white, right? And you believe enslaving other races is wrong, I would assume. Correct?

Why?

Do you have a rationale that is more logical and concurrent with the reality of competitive evolution? If you use words like moral and ethical please define for me how you achieve any sense of reason to attach to them from a scientific, evolutionary standpoint.

At the end of the day self-interest. I wouldnt want to be a slave, so I like that slavery is illegal and want people who enslave others to face harsh consequences.

You and I defer in that I dont think on average White people are inherently more intelligent/inventive than black people. perhaps I am being unfair to you but I remember a debate with you about why africa is poor, I believe in Jared Diamond's theory proposed in his book guns germs and steel

Basically Europeans were dealt a good hand by fate (good climate, tamable large animals to do field work, allowed them to relatively easily farm the amount of food necessary to sustain society, which freed up others to do other task, leading to great organization, larger societies and more innovation)

You can watch his documentary for a good synopsis of the book
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i885hopsw6E (part 1)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCBod2jFFyQ (Part 2)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJ9espgY-Po (Part 3)

I seem to remember you disagreeing and attributing the historical fact that Europeans colonized Africa and not the reverse was because Europeans were evolved differently. IIRC you argued that the harsh conditions of africa placed an advantage towards toughness rather than innovation.

Further its a historical fact white people have been and still are slaves. Current day, many eastern European women suffer sexual slavery. Historically the roman empire, the ottoman empire, etc enslaved people of European descent.


From a purely natural evolutionary scientific standpoint, the majority race has only to gain and nothing to lose from slavery. It's not as if there's some man in the sky who is objectively condemning it. So is your reason for being against slavery scientific... Or religious?

Because I dont think white people on average are inherently more intelligent I dont think that its impossible for white people to be enslaved. Thus just out of self interest I see the logic towards making slavery illegal and harshly punishing the crime.

Also just to factual Christianity was used widely to defend the institution to slavery in the american south. There are many bible passages clearly telling slaves to obey.

Islam was widely used to justify the arab slave trade.

[MavsSuperFan]

the graph makes it look like the average American is richest. They aren't. You have to remember in America, all the wealth is at the very top. Take those people away. And we probably closer to where Italy is.
The US is a very rich country despite the economic inequality with in it.

[MavsSuperFan]

what?? source please
the chinese government most recently crushed the falun gong movement, because it was becoming too popular

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Falun_Gong

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Woman_arrested.jpg


An extra-constitutional body called the 6-10 Office was created to lead the persecution of Falun Gong.[3] The authorities mobilized the state media apparatus, judiciary, police, army, the education system, families and workplaces against the group.[4] The campaign was driven by large-scale propaganda through television, newspaper, radio and internet.[5] There are reports of systematic torture,[6][7] illegal imprisonment, forced labor, organ harvesting[8] and abusive psychiatric measures, with the apparent aim of forcing practitioners to recant their belief in Falun Gong.[2]

Foreign observers estimate that hundreds of thousands and perhaps millions of Falun Gong practitioners have been detained in "re-education through labor" camps, prisons and other detention facilities for refusing to renounce the spiritual practice.[3][9] Former prisoners have reported that Falun Gong practitioners consistently received "the longest sentences and worst treatment" in labor camps, and in some facilities Falun Gong practitioners formed the substantial majority of detainees.[10][11] As of 2009 at least 2,000 Falun Gong practitioners had been tortured to death in the persecution campaign.[12]

In 2006, allegations emerged that a large number of Falun Gong practitioners had been killed to supply China's organ transplant industry.[8][13] An initial investigation found that "the source of 41,500 transplants for the six year period 2000 to 2005 is unexplained" and concluded that "there has been and continues today to be large scale organ seizures from unwilling Falun Gong practitioners".[


On the night of 25 April 1999, then-Communist Party chairman Jiang Zemin issued a letter indicating his desire to see Falun Gong defeated. The letter expressed alarm at Falun Gong’s popularity, particularly among Communist Party members.[26] He reportedly called the Zhongnanhai protest "the most serious political incident since the 'June 4' political disturbance in 1989."[27]

At a meeting of the Politburo on 7 June 1999, Jiang described Falun Gong as a grave threat to Communist Party authority—"something unprecedented in the country since its founding 50 years ago"—and ordered the creation of a high-level committee to "get fully prepared for the work of disintegrating [Falun Gong]."[28] Rumors of an impending crackdown began circulating throughout China, prompting demonstrations and petitions.[2] The government publicly denied the reports, calling them "completely baseless" and offering assurances that it had never banned qigong activities.[29]

Just after midnight on 20 July 1999, public security officers seized hundreds of Falun Gong practitioners from their homes in cities across China.[30] Estimates on the number of arrests vary from several hundred to over 5,600. A Hong Kong newspaper reported that 50,000 individuals were detained in the first week of the crackdown.[25] Four Falun Gong coordinators in Beijing were arrested and quickly tried on charges of "leaking state secrets".[1][31] The Public Security Bureau ordered churches, temples, mosques, newspapers, media, courts and police to suppress Falun Gong.[4] Three days of massive demonstrations by practitioners in some thirty cities followed. In Beijing and other cities, protesters were detained in sports stadiums.[30] Editorials in state-run newspapers urged people to give up Falun Gong practice, and Communist Party members in particular were reminded that they were atheists and must not allow themselves to "become superstitious by continuing to practice Falun Gong."

Also the chinese government, as a nominally communist has a strong preference for its citizens to be atheists.
"Die Religion ... ist das Opium des Volkes"
"religion... is the opiate of the masses."


Foreign observers have attempted to explain the Party’s rationale for banning Falun Gong as stemming from a variety of factors. These include Falun Gong’s popularity, its independence from the state and refusal to toe the Party line, internal power politics within the Communist Party, and Falun Gong’s moral and spiritual content, which put it at odds with the Party's Marxist–Leninist atheist ideology.

A World Journal report suggested that certain high-level Party officials wanted to crack down on the practice for years, but lacked sufficient pretext until the protest at Zhongnanhai, which they claim was partly orchestrated by Luo Gan, a long-time opponent of Falun Gong.[33] There were also reportedly rifts in the Politburo at the time of the incident. Willy Wo-Lap Lam writes that Jiang’s campaign against Falun Gong may have been used to promote allegiance to himself; Lam quotes one party veteran as saying, "By unleashing a Mao-style movement [against Falun Gong], Jiang is forcing senior cadres to pledge allegiance to his line."[34] Jiang is held by Falun Gong to be personally responsible for the final decision,[35][36] and sources cited by the Washington Post state that, "Jiang Zemin alone decided that Falun Gong must be eliminated," and "picked what he thought was an easy target."[37] Peerman cited reasons such as suspected personal jealousy of Li Hongzhi;[35] Saich postulates that party leaders' anger at Falun Gong's widespread appeal, and ideological struggle.[36] The Washington Post reported that members of the Politburo Standing Committee did not unanimously support the crackdown, and that "Jiang Zemin alone decided that Falun Gong must be eliminated."[37] The size and reach of Jiang's anti-Falun Gong campaign surpassed that of many previous mass-movements.[38]

Human Rights Watch notes that the crackdown on Falun Gong reflects historical efforts by the Chinese Communist Party to eradicate religion, which the government believed was inherently subversive.[39] Some journalists believe that Beijing's reaction exposes its authoritarian nature and its intolerance for competing loyalty. The Globe and Mail wrote : "...any group that does not come under the control of the Party is a threat"; secondly, the 1989 protests may have heightened the leaders' sense of losing their grip on power, making them live in "mortal fear" of popular demonstrations.[40][41] Craig Smith of the Wall Street Journal suggests that the government which has by definition no view of spirituality, lacks moral credibility with which to fight an expressly spiritual foe; the party feels increasingly threatened by any belief system that challenges its ideology and has an ability to organize itself.[42] That Falun Gong, whose belief system represented a revival of traditional Chinese religion, was being practiced by a large number of Communist Party members and members of the military was seen as particularly disturbing to Jiang Zemin. "Jiang accepts the threat of Falun Gong as an ideological one: spiritual beliefs against militant atheism and historical materialism. He [wished] to purge the government and the military of such beliefs"

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/2004-7-6-gao_rongrong3.jpg

Gao Rongrong, a Falun Gong practitioner from Liaoning province, was reported tortured to death in custody in 2005
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3/2004-6-6-bamboo_stick.jpg

Depiction of an example of a torture method, sometimes used in relation to persecution of Falun Gong: a bamboo stick inserted under nails.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/79/Anti-Falun_Gong_poster.png

The poster reads "Firmly support the decision of the Central Committee to deal with the illegal organization of 'Falun Gong'

[DCL]

when good things happen to religious people, they always credit it to god or that it's a blessing. thank god for this, thank god for that...

but when powerfully f--ked up events suddenly happen to them, why don't they ever follow the same thought and question if it's the will of god that allowed the destruction? if it is, why don't they ever question why is this higher power being unfair and brutal?

it seems like this god takes credit for everything good in the world but none of the bad.

but why don't people ever ask fundamental questions? because they are afraid. they consider that to be the ultimate sin. since birth, most have been pounded with the idea that there is no other possibility other than one all powerful deity. and if they ever defied or questioned his presence, they'd be breaking the biggest commandment,, which is refusing to accept that he is the ultimate authority of everything. and if they go through that route of questioning, it spooks the hell out of them that they might lose all the blessings that they thought they've been given.