Kobe and Shaq Longevity?

[Quickening]

Seasons scoring at least 20 ppg and playing 45 games.

Shaq= 14
Kobe = 14

Scoring at least 25 ppg in the playoffs

Shaq= 9
Kobe= 9

Seasons as legitimate superstars/top ten players

Shaq= 13
Kobe= 12

I always thought Kobe had far better longevity, but when you take into account Shaq was dominant as soon as he entered the league (Kobe wasn't a superstar until his 4th season), Shaq has just as much, if not better longevity at the top :confusedshrug:

[Beastmode88]

Only 45 games huh.

[SouBeachTalents]

Only 45 games huh.

:oldlol: I was thinking the same thing. With that metric LeBron and Wade have had the same durability

[gts]

Only 45 games huh.anytime you throw Shaq into a longevity argument you have to edit the standard... he missed a lot of games in his time

[Quickening]

Only 45 games huh.

Ok lets do at a different arbitrary figure like 67 games at 20 ppg in regular season...

Shaq= 9
Kobe= 10

Seems pretty similar to me... how people talk, I was expecting a huge difference.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Points:

Kobe - 32,482

Shaq - 28,596

Playoffs

Kobe - 5,640

Shaq - 5, 250


All NBA selections

Kobe: 15x (11 first team)

Shaq: 14x ( 8 first team)

[TheMarkMadsen]

Only 45 games huh.


:roll: :roll:

[gts]

Ok lets do at a different arbitrary figure like 67 games at 20 ppg in regular season...

Shaq= 9
Kobe= 10

Seems pretty similar to me... how people talk, I was expecting a huge difference.

why not just do it by seasons.. why does there have to be a set number of games played?

[Quickening]

And if games played is a big thing.

Playing at least 75 games, with 25 ppg in regular season.

Lebron= 10
Kobe= 9

So is Lebron longevity already better? :confusedshrug:


why not just do it by seasons.. why does there have to be a set number of games played?

Ok.

Seasons scoring at least 20 ppg.

Shaq= 14
Kobe= 12
Lebron= 12

[Beastmode88]

Ok lets do at a different arbitrary figure like 67 games at 20 ppg in regular season...

Shaq= 9
Kobe= 10

Seems pretty similar to me... how people talk, I was expecting a huge difference.

Ok then we do 30+ PPG and kobe has 3 while shaq has 0. Stop cherry picking random stats.

[Quickening]

Ok then we do 30+ PPG and kobe has 3 while shaq has 0. Stop cherry picking random stats.

How else would I pick stats, everyone is randomly picked you retard. And 20 ppg is a level which shows a good standard of play, so links to longevity argument

[dreamwarrior]

They both weren't all that durable. Kobe avg 67 games a season and Shaq 63. Kobe's last good season was when he was 34. Shaq's was at 33. MJ was still good at what, 39?

[Beastmode88]

How else would I pick stats, everyone is randomly picked you retard. And 20 ppg is a level which shows a good standard of play, so links to longevity argument

Kobe and Shaq are arguably top 10 players to ever play this game and you set average standards. Why not set higher standards when it comes to the best? This is just another thread to discredit kobe.

[Quickening]

Kobe and Shaq are arguably top 10 players to ever play this game and you set average standards. Why not set higher standards when it comes to the best? This is just another thread to discredit kobe.

I set a higher standard, and Kobe lost out to a 30 year old Lebron... So I guess his longevity is overrated.

[Beastmode88]

I set a higher standard, and Kobe lost out to a 30 year old Lebron... So I guess his longevity is overrated.

ok i can say lebron's longevity during a season is overrated compared to mj.

80+ game played seasons: mj - 11, lebron - 2

[kennethgriffin]

Shaq had good longevity

Not as good as kobe though


Boring thread

[imnew09]

playing 45 games.


ARE YOU FOR REAL? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Kobe_6/8]

Also consider they had completely different approaches to training

Kobe - Used to sneak into the gym when it was locked to practice.

Shaq - "I got hurt on company time, so I

[SexSymbol]

Shaq had the statistics, but he was a legitimate superstar for at most 7 seasons, he was more an empty stats choker in the beginning of his career, before Kobe blossomed into a star and Phil came round he was laughing stock of the league. And he was terrible after 2005

[SouBeachTalents]

Shaq had the statistics, but he was a legitimate superstar for at most 7 seasons, he was more an empty stats choker in the beginning of his career, before Kobe blossomed into a star and Phil came round he was laughing stock of the league. And he was terrible after 2005

Shaq was easily a legitimate superstar from '94-'03

[rzp]

Shaq was easily a legitimate superstar from '94-'03

i'd add 03-04 season too, his ppg dropped mainly because of the big 4 (more shots to share).

Shaq was a top 3 player for like 10 seasons in a row, literally... and people act like he only played on his 3 championship seasons LMAO

[ILLsmak]

Shaq gets shit on cuz he fell off at the end. Even tho he was still a starter until his legs gave out.

Shaq was good until he was with the Suns, that's a pretty long time. It's hard to say what he would have done if he wanted to continue to journey, but he did have some injuries. He could have taken better care of himself... but if this is about skill he was good for a long time. He did well at adjusting his game as he aged, too.

It was sad to watch him in the end. But I still remember him out there balling in 10 with the Cavs after Bron quit.

also lol @ Shaq being empty stats. O U.

-Smak

[Prime_Shaq]

Shaq does have underrated longevity. Remember back in 2010 an ancient Shaq was still holding his own against Prime Dwight.

[Genaro]

You suppose to have better longevity if you're a big. How many guards you see playing well that long as Kobe did?

[aj1987]

Kobe and Shaq are arguably top 10 players to ever play this game and you set average standards. Why not set higher standards when it comes to the best? This is just another thread to discredit kobe.
Arguably? Shaq is arguably top 5 and Kobe is arguably top 8. Shaq has been in the top 10 for a good 12 years and Kobe 5.


Shaq had the statistics, but he was a legitimate superstar for at most 7 seasons, he was more an empty stats choker in the beginning of his career, before Kobe blossomed into a star and Phil came round he was laughing stock of the league. And he was terrible after 2005
Using the same logic, Kobe has been a superstar for 5-6 years at best.

[The Iron Sheik]

Ok.

Seasons scoring at least 20 ppg.

Shaq= 14
Kobe= 12
Lebron= 12

this isn't accurate. kobe has played 19 seasons and only had 4 when he wasn't over 20ppg. 3 if you don't count the 13-14 season when he only played 6 games

[Stringer Bell]

Shaq's longevity as an elite player gets overlooked often.

He was an elite player as soon as he entered the NBA and stayed there for 13-14 seasons.

Very impressive.

[Mr Feeny]

Shaq was easily a legitimate superstar from '94-'03

He was the favourite for the MVP in 05. He was more than a legitimate candidate in 2004 and 2005. He was at the top of the tree.

[Dresta]

05 was definitely Shaq's last elite season. Too inconsistent, injured, and slow on defence, from 06 onwards.

[Quickening]

You suppose to have better longevity if you're a big. How many guards you see playing well that long as Kobe did?

People in top ten discussion always state how Kobe ha great longevity and thats puts him over Shaq, they have about the same amount of elite seasons, average a similar number of games.

[Mr Feeny]

You suppose to have better longevity if you're a big. How many guards you see playing well that long as Kobe did?Not when you're Shaq's size and weight. Giants (in all sports) tend to break down with a myriad of injuries (especially at the joints) as they age.

[ImKobe]

I set a higher standard, and Kobe lost out to a 30 year old Lebron... So I guess his longevity is overrated.

What? How did he lose out? Lebron came into the league 7 years after Kobe.

Kobe's numbers in 2013 pretty much identical to Bron's this season :rolleyes: and he played 9 more games despite suffering a serious ankle sprain mid-season and tearing his achilles a couple games before the end of the year.

[Quickening]

What? How did he lose out? Lebron came into the league 7 years after Kobe.

Kobe's numbers in 2013 pretty much identical to Bron's this season :rolleyes: and he played 9 more games despite suffering a serious ankle sprain mid-season and tearing his achilles a couple games before the end of the year.

I stated as an elite player- top ten in the league.

It was until his 4th season that Kobe became an elite player, and he has been irrelevant for the last 2 years = 6 years not being elite.

Lebron came into the league as a superstar and has sustained elite level play every year since, therefore there longevity as elite players is already a wash and Lebron is only 30.

[Mr Feeny]

I stated as an elite player- top ten in the league.

It was until his 4th season that Kobe became an elite player, and he has been irrelevant for the last 2 years = 6 years not being elite.

Lebron came into the league as a superstar and has sustained elite level play every year since, therefore there longevity as elite players is already a wash and Lebron is only 30.

I don't think it's accurate to say that rookie Lebron is elite tbf. That probably spanned 2006-2015. 10 seasons.

[iamgine]

Seasons scoring at least 20 ppg and playing 45 games.

Shaq= 14
Kobe = 14

Out of those 14 years Shaq played: 34,700 minutes. Kobe played: 40,300 minutes. That is 5,600 more minutes or 2-3 more season's worth.

Shaq had good longevity. Just not as good as Kobe.

[Quickening]

I don't think it's accurate to say that rookie Lebron is elite tbf. That probably spanned 2006-2015. 10 seasons.

In season 04-05, a second year Lebron put up 27, 7 and 7 on 47% shooting... so in my opinion he has had at least 11 elite seasons if you discount his first.

[SexSymbol]

Shaq has got some good longevity, yeah, but Kobe's is the best of all time.
Everybody forgets he's a guard, no guard has been as good for as long as Kobe, not even close.

[Prime_Shaq]

05 was definitely Shaq's last elite season. Too inconsistent, injured, and slow on defence, from 06 onwards.
Yet anchored the 06 championship team's defense

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Shaq has got some good longevity, yeah, but Kobe's is the best of all time.

:biggums:

[Cold soul]

:biggums:

Kobe longevity ranks right up there with best ever along aside of Kareem, Duncan, and Malone.

[kennethgriffin]

the reason people think of shaq as having bad longevity is because hes almost always been injured or overweight/missing games throughout his career asside from 1999-2000

also the fact that his prime didnt really start until 1999-2000


since he didnt put together the skill/brain/dominant body thing all together till then


before that he was raw. and after his 2nd ring he was already getting lazy


but shaq had a solid longevity in terms of talent level in comparison to the league average

[ArbitraryWater]

Shaq has got some good longevity, yeah, but Kobe's is the best of all time.
Everybody forgets he's a guard, no guard has been as good for as long as Kobe, not even close.

:roll:

Kareem 1970-1986 shits on Kobe 2001-2013... Malone does, Shaq does. Lot of players have had more elite seasons than Kobe, mind you, nothing Kobe did in 2004, 2005, 2011-2012 was impressive talking all-time among ATG's.

[aj1987]

the reason people think of shaq as having bad longevity is because hes almost always been injured or overweight/missing games throughout his career asside from 1999-2000

also the fact that his prime didnt really start until 1999-2000


since he didnt put together the skill/brain/dominant body thing all together till then


before that he was raw. and after his 2nd ring he was already getting lazy


but shaq had a solid longevity in terms of talent level in comparison to the league average
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Shaq gets trashed by Kobe fans looking to prop up their idol. People forget that Shaq's career started in 1993, dude had a respectable degree of longevity despite the injuries. Too many posters seem to think that his career didn't start until he won the Lakers a ring in 2000.

[Cold soul]

Shaq longivity is underrated he never got praise he deserved for how long he was a good to great player for. In fact Shaq did miss some games during the regular season every season he could never play close to every regular season game each season never the most durable.

[Stringer Bell]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

If that's the case, that's a pretty amazing "pre-prime".

MVP Award Shares
1992-93 NBA 0.031 (7)
1993-94 NBA 0.286 (4)
1994-95 NBA 0.576 (2)
1995-96 NBA 0.056 (9)
1996-97 NBA 0.006 (9)
1997-98 NBA 0.268 (4)
1998-99 NBA 0.075 (6)

Honors
1992-93 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

Rebounds Per Game
1992-93 NBA 13.9 (2)
1993-94 NBA 13.2 (2)
1994-95 NBA 11.4 (3)
1998-99 NBA 10.7 (8)

Blocks Per Game
1992-93 NBA 3.5 (2)
1993-94 NBA 2.9 (6)
1994-95 NBA 2.4 (6)
1995-96 NBA 2.1 (9)
1996-97 NBA 2.9 (3)
1997-98 NBA 2.4 (8)

Points Per Game
1992-93 NBA 23.4 (9)
1993-94 NBA 29.3 (2)
1994-95 NBA 29.3 (1)
1995-96 NBA 26.6 (3)
1996-97 NBA 26.2 (4)
1997-98 NBA 28.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 26.3 (2)

Usage Pct
1992-93 NBA 27.0 (9)
1993-94 NBA 29.0 (5)
1994-95 NBA 31.9 (1)
1995-96 NBA 32.8 (2)
1996-97 NBA 31.1 (3)
1997-98 NBA 32.9 (2)
1998-99 NBA 32.4 (2)

Player Efficiency Rating
1992-93 NBA 22.9 (7)
1993-94 NBA 28.5 (2)
1994-95 NBA 28.6 (2)
1995-96 NBA 26.4 (3)
1996-97 NBA 27.1 (3)
1997-98 NBA 28.8 (1)
1998-99 NBA 30.6 (1)

Field Goal Pct
1992-93 NBA .562 (4)
1993-94 NBA .599 (1)
1994-95 NBA .583 (2)
1995-96 NBA .573 (3)
1996-97 NBA .557 (4)
1997-98 NBA .584 (1)
1998-99 NBA .576 (1)

[HOoopCityJones]

Idk why you guys still take Kenneth seriously , he's obviously a Kobe hater trolling.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Idk why you guys still take Kenneth seriously , he's obviously a Kobe hater trolling.

A Kobe focused 3ball. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

If that's the case, that's a pretty amazing "pre-prime".

MVP Award Shares
1992-93 NBA 0.031 (7)
1993-94 NBA 0.286 (4)
1994-95 NBA 0.576 (2)
1995-96 NBA 0.056 (9)
1996-97 NBA 0.006 (9)
1997-98 NBA 0.268 (4)
1998-99 NBA 0.075 (6)

Honors
1992-93 NBA All-Rookie (1st)
1993-94 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

Rebounds Per Game
1992-93 NBA 13.9 (2)
1993-94 NBA 13.2 (2)
1994-95 NBA 11.4 (3)
1998-99 NBA 10.7 (8)

Blocks Per Game
1992-93 NBA 3.5 (2)
1993-94 NBA 2.9 (6)
1994-95 NBA 2.4 (6)
1995-96 NBA 2.1 (9)
1996-97 NBA 2.9 (3)
1997-98 NBA 2.4 (8)

Points Per Game
1992-93 NBA 23.4 (9)
1993-94 NBA 29.3 (2)
1994-95 NBA 29.3 (1)
1995-96 NBA 26.6 (3)
1996-97 NBA 26.2 (4)
1997-98 NBA 28.3 (2)
1998-99 NBA 26.3 (2)

Usage Pct
1992-93 NBA 27.0 (9)
1993-94 NBA 29.0 (5)
1994-95 NBA 31.9 (1)
1995-96 NBA 32.8 (2)
1996-97 NBA 31.1 (3)
1997-98 NBA 32.9 (2)
1998-99 NBA 32.4 (2)

Player Efficiency Rating
1992-93 NBA 22.9 (7)
1993-94 NBA 28.5 (2)
1994-95 NBA 28.6 (2)
1995-96 NBA 26.4 (3)
1996-97 NBA 27.1 (3)
1997-98 NBA 28.8 (1)
1998-99 NBA 30.6 (1)

Field Goal Pct
1992-93 NBA .562 (4)
1993-94 NBA .599 (1)
1994-95 NBA .583 (2)
1995-96 NBA .573 (3)
1996-97 NBA .557 (4)
1997-98 NBA .584 (1)
1998-99 NBA .576 (1)

lebron had better numbers before his prime

jordan had better numbers before his prime



sometimes players get by on massive physical/athletic advantages and seemingly produce more but fail when it counts most

this is because numbers lie and results tell a players true value

[kennethgriffin]

Idk why you guys still take Kenneth seriously , he's obviously a Kobe hater trolling.


because i make sense

[ShawkFactory]

because i make sense
:oldlol:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I don't know how kenneth only has 5 red bars..

[kennethgriffin]

so basketball fans in 2015 actually believe shaq wasnt a dumb 1 trick pony before he got phil jackson and began actually training hard


90s shaq was dumb as fuq

kobe even said shaq finally put it all together in their title season in his interview with simmons and jalen rose

prime doesnt mean athletic prime. do morons on ISH realize this?

during the 90s shaq had an infant sized brain getting worked up and down like a village wh*re during his matchups with other great centers. even rodman had him in check


yall delusional as f*ck or just started watching basketball

[kennethgriffin]

kobe had the mental side of the game down and was alpha as early as age 21

his coming out party was literally the same year as shaqs was.. which is sad


game 4 in the finals by kobe was his stamp on the league

shaq from 1993-1998 had half the alpha gene kobe had at that point in time


which is crazy because shaq was nearly 7 years older than kobe

[Stringer Bell]

Shaq had plenty of moves before 99-00....part of the reason he became more dominant then was because the center position began to increasingly SUCK. He had some more experience and added some wrinkles, but he declined in some other areas because of all the extra weight. He always had that nice jump hook in the paint and was effective at passing out of doubles. He actually relied more on powering over opponents and elbowing them in the face during the 3-peat than he did in the mid 90s.

He had better help with Kobe maturing into a great player, having better coaching than that genius Del Harris, and then he started winning titles. Before that, the Lakers were just a talented mess.

[He Strong]

Seasons scoring at least 20 ppg and playing 45 games.

Shaq= 14
Kobe = 14

Scoring at least 25 ppg in the playoffs

Shaq= 9
Kobe= 9

Seasons as legitimate superstars/top ten players

Shaq= 13
Kobe= 12

I always thought Kobe had far better longevity, but when you take into account Shaq was dominant as soon as he entered the league (Kobe wasn't a superstar until his 4th season), Shaq has just as much, if not better longevity at the top :confusedshrug:

Kobe's seems longer because of having a long plateau while Shaq had a more pronounced peak.

[He Strong]

Kobe's seems longer because of having a long plateau while Shaq had a more pronounced peak.

Here is how I visualize it.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ns0xgk.png

[gigantes]

shaq was just so incredibly dominant in his prime and pre-prime. the offense could run through him every night and he was almost unstoppable as a low post scorer. he was the de facto league MVP for quite a number of years despite getting the award only once or twice or whatever.

kobe certainly has the longevity, but just never was that level of superstar. he wasn't as dominant or efficient despite having the far better skillset and professional approach.

they were both great in their own ways so it's really an apples and oranges thing to me.

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe wasn't dominant?

[gigantes]

Kobe wasn't dominant?
dominant in a way that wasn't necessarily efficient and didn't have the kind of amazing impact that shaq did.

not because of his skillset but moreso his position and style of game. if kobe had been shaq's size i would not rule him out being the hypotehtical greatest center of all time. he would have had all that olajuwon stuff but with more explosiveness and all.

[SexSymbol]

:roll:

Kareem 1970-1986 shits on Kobe 2001-2013... Malone does, Shaq does. Lot of players have had more elite seasons than Kobe, mind you, nothing Kobe did in 2004, 2005, 2011-2012 was impressive talking all-time among ATG's.
You're posting bigs. And Shaq isn't even arguable, he has missed way too many games and been swept under the rug in series where he shouldn't have been swept. If you stay relatively healthy as a big you'll have your longevity easy, guards base their games off of speed and quickness and agility, these are things that diminish greatly after you reach 30. For Kobe to be ELITE at 34, having the best 17th season ever by a guard by a wide margin is never heard of, he has the best longevity ever when everything's taken into account, or at least top 2 with Kareem.

[kennethgriffin]

Here is how I visualize it.

http://i58.tinypic.com/2ns0xgk.png


i think its more like this
http://i58.tinypic.com/juztcz.png

[Quickening]

i think its more like this
http://i58.tinypic.com/juztcz.png

wtf is this :oldlol: :lol :roll:

It took you ten minutes to edit in that red shit? :roll:

[tpols]

dominant in a way that wasn't necessarily efficient and didn't have the kind of amazing impact that shaq did.

not because of his skillset but moreso his position and style of game. if kobe had been shaq's size i would not rule him out being the hypotehtical greatest center of all time. he would have had all that olajuwon stuff but with more explosiveness and all.

Kobe was more efficient in his 08-10 run as the man than shaq was in the 00-02 threepeat. And kobe just obliterates him in any type of crunch time scoring.. where scoring matters most.

Where shaq makes up the deficit is in his defensive and rebounding impact.

[ArbitraryWater]

i think its more like this
http://i58.tinypic.com/juztcz.png

:roll: :roll:

[gigantes]

Kobe was more efficient in his 08-10 run as the man than shaq was in the 00-02 threepeat.
i don't agree with that at all.

kobe takes on the pressure better than anyone not named jordan or bird, but i don't ever recall him being as efficient as others mentioned.

he busted the offense all the time and jackson was a genius to make it all work, but that's not efficiency to me. his shooting percentage was pretty mediocre for his stature, too.


And kobe just obliterates him in any type of crunch time scoring.. where scoring matters most.

Where shaq makes up the deficit is in his defensive and rebounding impact.
agree, that would be kobe's most glaring advantage over shaq and makes it hard to respect shaq as much as i might.

still, that's not the worst equation in the world. to have one guy who tends to dominate the first three quarts and then another guy who is the pressure scorer in the fourth.

[kennethgriffin]

:roll: :roll:


http://i57.tinypic.com/34isn0i.jpg

[Smoke117]

i think its more like this
http://i58.tinypic.com/juztcz.png

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m0w9frDouN1r0ufaco1_250.gif

[tpols]

i don't agree with that at all.

kobe takes on the pressure better than anyone not named jordan or bird, but i don't ever recall him being as efficient as others mentioned.

he busted the offense all the time and jackson was a genius to make it all work, but that's not efficiency to me. his shooting percentage was pretty mediocre for his stature, too.


agree, that would be kobe's most glaring advantage over shaq and makes it hard to respect shaq as much as i might.

still, that's not the worst equation in the world. to have one guy who tends to dominate the first three quarts and then another guy who is the pressure scorer in the fourth.

kobe had a higher point per possession, higher o-rating, he produced more offense per possession used. And it's not like kobe was harden.. his ftr is completely mediocre for a star.

It's easy to be in awe of the way shaqs scores.. pulverize ng people.. but his FTS just wasted so many possesions. And overall efficiency was nothing special.

[gigantes]

kobe had a higher point per possession, higher o-rating, he produced more offense per possession used. And it's not like kobe was harden.. his ftr is completely mediocre for a star.

It's easy to be in awe of the way shaqs scores.. pulverize ng people.. but his FTS just wasted so many possesions. And overall efficiency was nothing special.
PPP does not impress me in that context.

shaq was much more of a facilitator. he could touch the ball virtually every possession but was great at blending his dominance with a buttload of hockey assists. kobe was more of a black hole that didn't improve his teammates anywhere close to that.

i think this is very much a case of stats being like damned lies.

[kennethgriffin]

all you people have to look at is this


1993-94 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1994-95 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1995-96 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1996-97 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1997-98 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (3rd)





vs
1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)




pretty obvious who was more consistant and lasted longer at the top

[tpols]

PPP does not impress me in that context.

shaq was much more of a facilitator. he could touch the ball virtually every possession but was great at blending his dominance with a buttload of hockey assists. kobe was more of a black hole that didn't improve his teammates anywhere close to that.

i think this is very much a case of stats being like damned lies.

Maybe if youre talking 00-04 Kobe.. I would agree. But playoff 06-10 Kobe played facilitator all game long to try and get his teammates going and would only turn on the blackhole mode for scoring down the stretch of games.

Which made sense.. he had nothing to prove in terms of not getting credit, trying to outdo a teammate for the glory. He was the stand alone best offensive player on his team by a mile.. so he could play it right and save a bit more of the iso stuff for the last few minutes only.

[gigantes]

Maybe if youre talking 00-04 Kobe.. I would agree. But playoff 06-10 Kobe played facilitator all game long to try and get his teammates going and would only turn on the blackhole mode for scoring down the stretch of games.

Which made sense.. he had nothing to prove in terms of not getting credit, trying to outdo a teammate for the glory. He was the stand alone best offensive player on his team by a mile.. so he could play it right and save a bit more of the iso stuff for the last few minutes only.
i guess yes and no.

it was always an issue for him. yes, he went in to this weirdly artificial mode of passing it around and then right back to his weirdly obsessive mode of trying for amazing shots all game long.

sometimes it worked by quarters, but other times i remember him doing this passive-aggressive thing of facilitating and refusing to shoot over the course of multiple games. to teach his teammates a lesson, for example.

i don't think it was ever as smooth as you imagine, and i doubt kobe would have won many (or any) finals without jackson to keep the whole crazy thing humming.

agree to disagree i guess. i'm out to watch the bucks game... later.

[tpols]

i guess yes and no.

it was always an issue for him. yes, he went in to this weirdly artificial mode of passing it around and then right back to his weirdly obsessive mode of trying for amazing shots all game long.

sometimes it worked by quarters, but other times i remember him doing this passive-aggressive thing of facilitating and refusing to shoot over the course of multiple games. to teach his teammates a lesson, for example.

i don't think it was ever as smooth as you imagine, and i doubt kobe would have won many (or any) finals without jackson to keep the whole crazy thing humming.

agree to disagree i guess. i'm out to watch the bucks game... later.
have fun mayne