I finally get it James Harden haters want refs to intentionally not call fouls

[Im so nba'd out]

Only for him.


He is so effective that they (his haters) think the only way he can play bad is if the refs go out of their way to not give him calls.


This is lebron/durant level hate right here where they basically want the rules changed just to stop him even kobe didnt get this type of hate :applause:


how great is our James!

[kennethgriffin]

harden is like the modern day jordan/06 wade

which means houston should win the title

automatic freethrows by a good free throw shooter = money in the playoffs


houston = 2015 nba champs

[dh144498]

Harden is a flopper dawg.... look at his FG% compared to his TS%. He's a flopper.

[warriorfan]

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YkcCJM0GiBw/0.jpg

[He Strong]

Only for him.


He is so effective that they (his haters) think the only way he can play bad is if the refs go out of their way to not give him calls.


This is lebron/durant level hate right here where they basically want the rules changed just to stop him even kobe didnt get this type of hate :applause:


how great is our James!

I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.

[RightTwoCensor]

I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.
Name one from last game that is indisputably a bad call.

[RightTwoCensor]

I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.
Name one from last game that is indisputably a bad call.

[He Strong]

Name one from last game that is indisputably a bad call.

When he shoulder blocked Dirk, which should have been an offensive foul.

[Kingwillball]

I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.


This..

[UK2K]

I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.
FT Per 36
Westbrook 10.23
Harden 9.95

Drives Per Game
Harden 10.7
Westbrook 10.1


Then Westbrook gets 6-8 undeserved free throws.

Harden is the one who shoots garbage time free throws. He shoots tech free throws. He had 6 last night within the last minute and a half of the game and one technical free throw.

So in reality, had the Mavs not been repeatedly fouling late, he would have been 8-10 from the FT line. Is that absurd? Even then he finishes with 17 points, 11 assists, and Houston still wins.

No, you only see what you want to see by reading box scores. Did you even watch the game?

[UK2K]

When he shoulder blocked Dirk, which should have been an offensive foul.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3hrBSsPUvo

There it is at 3:07.

Now you tell me, what makes that a non-foul? Did they collide? Yes. Was Dirk moving? Yes. Was Dirk in front of him? No.

Harden attempted to cut across the lane and get his shoulder in front of Dirk, Dirk wasn't having it, and they collided.

You don't even see Dirk complaining about the call afterwards, cause he knows he fouled him, so I'm not exactly sure why you think it was a missed call.

[Im so nba'd out]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3hrBSsPUvo

There it is at 3:07.

Now you tell me, what makes that a non-foul? Did they collide? Yes. Was Dirk moving? Yes. Was Dirk in front of him? No.

Harden attempted to cut across the lane and get his shoulder in front of Dirk, Dirk wasn't having it, and they collided.

You don't even see Dirk complaining about the call afterwards, cause he knows he fouled him, so I'm not exactly sure why you think it was a missed call.
dont do em like that :lebronamazed:

knowledge > being a sheep who just copies what other people say without actually knowing the rules of the game

[RightTwoCensor]

Hold this W, Clutchfans.

[el_locoteee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3hrBSsPUvo

There it is at 3:07.

Now you tell me, what makes that a non-foul? Did they collide? Yes. Was Dirk moving? Yes. Was Dirk in front of him? No.

Harden attempted to cut across the lane and get his shoulder in front of Dirk, Dirk wasn't having it, and they collided.

You don't even see Dirk complaining about the call afterwards, cause he knows he fouled him, so I'm not exactly sure why you think it was a missed call.

Here another piece of knowledge

PPG Without FTs
Lebron 19.9
Harden 18.6
Russel 20
Curry 19.9
A. Davis 18.9

[nba_55]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3hrBSsPUvo

There it is at 3:07.

Now you tell me, what makes that a non-foul? Did they collide? Yes. Was Dirk moving? Yes. Was Dirk in front of him? No.

Harden attempted to cut across the lane and get his shoulder in front of Dirk, Dirk wasn't having it, and they collided.

You don't even see Dirk complaining about the call afterwards, cause he knows he fouled him, so I'm not exactly sure why you think it was a missed call.


a. A player shall not hold, push, charge into, impede the progress of an oppo-nent by extending a hand, forearm, leg or knee or by bending the body into a posi-tion that is not normal. Contact that results in the re-routing of an opponent is a foul which must be called immediately.

nba.com

It's clearly a foul by the rules. Now, you prove to me how it's a foul on Dirk. All the points you made (Dirk not being in front, dirk running...) are not in the rules.

[UK2K]

nba.com

It's clearly a foul by the rules. Now, you prove to me how it's a foul on Dirk. All the points you made (Dirk not being in front, dirk running...) are not in the rules.
Ok...

Outside this area, a defender must be in a legal defensive position before the offensive player gets to them in order to draw a charge on the offensive player. If the defender does not get into position before the offensive player gets there and contact is made, a blocking foul may be called. This foul is called subjectively based on the amount of contact and how much the defender impedes the offensive player.

Dirk wasn't there first. He wasn't in a legal guarding position.

What is Blocking Foul?
This is a foul called on the defensive player when that player illegally impedes the progress of the offensive player with the ball.

That phrase right there will get you every time. If Harden decides he wants to cross the lane, you either recognize it and get there first, or stay with him in a legal guarding position (between him and the basket generally).

Dirk did neither of those things.

Was Harden intentionally trying to go for the contact? Maybe, but I bet had Dirk slowed down just before Harden crossed into the paint, he could have had a chance to block the shot from behind. But he didn't, he just got ran into and they both stumbled.

Like I said, Dirk wasn't even complaining about it. He knew it was a foul. But apparently all of ISH knows better.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

FT Per 36
Westbrook 10.23
Harden 9.95

Drives Per Game
Harden 10.7
Westbrook 10.1


Then Westbrook gets 6-8 undeserved free throws.



http://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/8170039.jpg

Westbrook earns his contact. :confusedshrug:

[He Strong]

FT Per 36
Westbrook 10.23
Harden 9.95

Drives Per Game
Harden 10.7
Westbrook 10.1


Then Westbrook gets 6-8 undeserved free throws.

Harden is the one who shoots garbage time free throws. He shoots tech free throws. He had 6 last night within the last minute and a half of the game and one technical free throw.

So in reality, had the Mavs not been repeatedly fouling late, he would have been 8-10 from the FT line. Is that absurd? Even then he finishes with 17 points, 11 assists, and Houston still wins.

No, you only see what you want to see by reading box scores. Did you even watch the game?

Wow, you don't get it at all. It isn't a matter of free throws per shot. It is a matter of the fouls being legit or not. Westbrook gets hacked as he flies by defenders that can't keep up.

[He Strong]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3hrBSsPUvo

There it is at 3:07.

Now you tell me, what makes that a non-foul? Did they collide? Yes. Was Dirk moving? Yes. Was Dirk in front of him? No.

Harden attempted to cut across the lane and get his shoulder in front of Dirk, Dirk wasn't having it, and they collided.

You don't even see Dirk complaining about the call afterwards, cause he knows he fouled him, so I'm not exactly sure why you think it was a missed call.

The replay shown during the game shows that Harden clearly side swipes Dirk and rams him with his shoulder. You can't charge with your shoulder, doesn't matter if the defender is moving.

[He Strong]

dont do em like that :lebronamazed:

knowledge > being a sheep who just copies what other people say without actually knowing the rules of the game

That is precisely what you are doing right now. :hammerhead:

[UK2K]

The replay shown during the game shows that Harden clearly side swipes Dirk and rams him with his shoulder. You can't charge with your shoulder, doesn't matter if the defender is moving.
It does.

What is Charging?
A foul called when an offensive player collides with a defensive player who is stationary and has both feet firmly planted on the floor. The defensive player has to be in that established position before the offensive player's head or shoulder gets by him.

What part of that applies to Dirk on that play?

He could have been called for an offensive control foul, but he was in control.

Again, if it was so egregious, why was Dirk not upset? Cause he knows he fouled him. You're more upset about it than the guy who actually committed the foul.

[MiseryCityTexas]

harden is like the modern day jordan/06 wade

which means houston should win the title

automatic freethrows by a good free throw shooter = money in the playoffs


houston = 2015 nba champs

Imma diehard Rockets fan but hell nah. I don't even think Harden's on Clyde Drexler's level in terms of being a solid NBA player let alone Jordan.

[UK2K]

Wow, you don't get it at all. It isn't a matter of free throws per shot. It is a matter of the fouls being legit or not. Westbrook gets hacked as he flies by defenders that can't keep up.
So now that statistically I show you Westbrook shoots more fouls on less drives, now the argument has moved to 'Westbrook earns his', which is in no way quantifiable. That is purely your opinion.

Keep moving the goal posts.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Wow, you don't get it at all. It isn't a matter of free throws per shot. It is a matter of the fouls being legit or not. Westbrook gets hacked as he flies by defenders that can't keep up.

Dude might be the biggest homer on this board. I could swear that he posted that Kentucky was better than a few NBA teams :roll:

[UK2K]

http://cdn.meme.am/images/300x/8170039.jpg

Westbrook earns his contact. :confusedshrug:
Again, purely speculation and your opinion.

There's no point in discussing your personal opinion.

[Im so nba'd out]

That is precisely what you are doing right now. :hammerhead:
sounded like he was right idk the exact rules on blocking fouls doe im not gonna fraud like i do

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Again, purely speculation and your opinion.

There's no point in discussing your personal opinion.

I've seen both of them play rather than watching one and watching the box scores of the other. :confusedshrug:

If you had seen both players play the distinction would be clear.

[el_locoteee]

The replay shown during the game shows that Harden clearly side swipes Dirk and rams him with his shoulder. You can't charge with your shoulder, doesn't matter if the defender is moving.

Yes it matters if you are attacking the basket, either move out of the way or turn arround and play defense. You can just try to run with you back turn to the front of the basket, either turn arround and own you space.

Never heard of jumping into the shotblocker to take his ablity to block in the paint, every great shooter does that. The NBA said if you are facing up jumping straight up owning your space there is no foul and BTW there is also not an offensive foul either is a non call.

Harden never extender his arms, player bumps every single time, they get call only when extending their arms or if the player is set and get hit in his chest, charge call.

BTW the foul was on the leg trip not on the bump.

[He Strong]

It does.

What is Charging?
A foul called when an offensive player collides with a defensive player who is stationary and has both feet firmly planted on the floor. The defensive player has to be in that established position before the offensive player's head or shoulder gets by him.

What part of that applies to Dirk on that play?

He could have been called for an offensive control foul, but he was in control.

Again, if it was so egregious, why was Dirk not upset? Cause he knows he fouled him. You're more upset about it than the guy who actually committed the foul.

You are aware you can get offensive fouls without a set defender, right? You can't lower your shoulder to ram through a player even if that player is moving.

And whether Dirk shows he is upset or not has no impact on this. He could have been avoiding a T, or keeping his emotions in tact for himself because he knows Harden gets BS calls. If the players let it get to themselves, they'll definitely be defeated.

[KNOW1EDGE]

ImSoPlayedOut getting straight MURKED in his own thread.

Time for a new alt breh!

[UK2K]

I've seen both of them play rather than watching one and watching the box scores of the other. :confusedshrug:

If you had seen both players play the distinction would be clear.
I have watched them both play. I watched the Thunder choke down the stretch.

But again, you're basing off purely your opinion. Well my opinion is Harden should get 50 free throws a night, cause he earns them.

So let's go round and round and argue over who takes it to the rack harder...

Harden draws fouls. That's his game. It's no different than when I slow down on a fast break to let someone run into me as I shoot my lay up. Is it dirty? No. Is it a foul? Yes. Is it clever? I think so, cause 3 points> 2 points right?

If you're in a bad defensive position, I will make you foul me. Its just the way it is.

Same way in the NFL when receivers stop on a dime to get the cornerbacks to hit them. Pass interference. Is that a dirty play? No. Is it clever? I think so. Free yards is free yards right?

[He Strong]

So now that statistically I show you Westbrook shoots more fouls on less drives, now the argument has moved to 'Westbrook earns his', which is in no way quantifiable. That is purely your opinion.

Keep moving the goal posts.

I never moved the argument, you did. I have only argued that it is a matter of getting the calls right. You are the one who made it about number of free throws per shot attempt.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I have watched them both play. I watched the Thunder choke down the stretch.

But again, you're basing off purely your opinion. Well my opinion is Harden should get 50 free throws a night, cause he earns them.

So let's go round and round and argue over who takes it to the rack harder...

Choking down the stretch has what to do with the level of contact Westbrook takes?

Your opinion is wrong. :oldlol:

Westbrook flies by defenders and gets hit hard going to the rim, Harden rungs alongside the defender and flails both his arms at the slightest hint of contact.

[Milbuck]

I could swear that he posted that Kentucky was better than a few NBA teams :roll:
http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Robin-Lopez-Suns-Bench-Shock-Reaction.gif

[Im so nba'd out]

ImSoPlayedOut getting straight MURKED in his own thread.

Time for a new alt breh!
please dont try to talk like us you're not black and it looks so awkward http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm219/williamcoreycharles/dc_zps2f4ca374.gif



you dont have enough piff to talk like us little guy

[UK2K]

I never moved the argument, you did. I have only argued that it is a matter of getting the calls right. You are the one who made it about number of free throws per shot attempt.
You said Harden gets 6-8 undeserved free throws per game.

So youre implying that the guy with the fourth most drives in the entire NBA should probably only get 2-4 free throws per game.

I pointed out that Westbrook shoots 10% more free throws per 36 on less drives. Then you argue he earns them.

You moved the argument to an unquantifiable argument and now were bitching about differing opinions.

[UK2K]

Choking down the stretch has what to do with the level of contact Westbrook takes?

Your opinion is wrong. :oldlol:

Westbrook flies by defenders and gets hit hard going to the rim, Harden rungs alongside the defender and flails both his arms at the slightest hint of contact.
Nothing. I'm just telling you I watched their last few games. Almost all of them over the last two weeks.

Westbrook goes all out at the rim. I agree with that.

But I don't agree that Harden gets fouls he doesn't deserve, because 90% of the time, he is fouled. It may not be hard or pretty, but it is a foul.

Just like the little rip through jump shooters use to get fouled on their shots, its a foul. I don't like it, but a foul is a foul. I don't agree with a lot of block/charge calls either (offensive players have such an advantage) but its called like it's called. Per the rule book, its a block so, OK.

[He Strong]

You said Harden gets 6-8 undeserved free throws per game.

So youre implying that the guy with the fourth most drives in the entire NBA should probably only get 2-4 free throws per game.

I pointed out that Westbrook shoots 10% more free throws per 36 on less drives. Then you argue he earns them.

You moved the argument to an unquantifiable argument and now were bitching about differing opinions.

My very first post in this thread:


I don't mind the legit foul calls, but he gets roughly 4-6 undeserved free throws per game.

You randomly bring up Westbrook as if his # of free throws is relevant to whether Harden's fouls are legit or not. That is you changing the topic, not me. Also, you changed the # I said from 4-6 to 6-8. Stop completely changing what I said to start a straw man argument.

[Im so nba'd out]

Just seen a video where steven a smith is hating on harden for getting fouls:lol .You hating azz fakkits really want the refs to rig the game and not give him calls.i can see if you fakkits would say everyone should get calls like him but no you just want him to not get calls.****ing haters

[MiseryCityTexas]

Just seen a video where steven a smith is hating on harden for getting fouls:lol .You hating azz fakkits really want the refs to rig the game and not give him calls.i can see if you fakkits would say everyone should get calls like him but no you just want him to not get calls.****ing haters

Seriously everyone would be on Wades nuts when he drew fouls from the refs. People are biased as hell.

[Phenith]

After getting a chance to watch his game more closely in the playoffs, I can understand where the hate comes from... he does the same thing Lou Williams does for the Raptors. He lunges forward and into the defender, and instead of protecting the ball, he holds it out and tries to get his arms into the defender to "draw contact". It's pretty cheesy, but if he were on "your" team... you would love it (at least I love it when Lou does it to his defender and they are all like 'WTF!', lol).
This is also what leads to his high TO totals... when he drives and extends his arms with the ball leaving it way out there to be slapped at. Many times the ball gets slapped away clean and Harden's body language makes it look like a foul. In reality, his TO totals and those of other players that use that move are probably a little lower than they should be as they get a foul call on some player where it would be a legit TO.

A lot of it has to do with body language and Harden, amongst others have come close to mastering it.

Hate all you want, but these players are just taking advantage of the rules as they are currently.

*NOTE* - I am ignoring phantom calls because realistically all the superstars get these calls so it's a mute point.

[Yoshi]

Only for him.


He is so effective that they (his haters) think the only way he can play bad is if the refs go out of their way to not give him calls.


This is lebron/durant level hate right here where they basically want the rules changed just to stop him even kobe didnt get this type of hate :applause:


how great is our James!

He just gets the benefit of doubt that other players don't get. They need to call it evenly.

LeBron's issues are a bit of the opposite. His teams are given more benefit on defense, and he can play more physical without getting calls against him.

[UK2K]

He just gets the benefit of doubt that other players don't get. They need to call it evenly.

LeBron's issues are a bit of the opposite. His teams are given more benefit on defense, and he can play more physical without getting calls against him.
No he's just really good at drawing fouls.

Rarely do I see a foul called in his favor, when it wasn't a foul.

I did see a foul in game 2 with LAC that the ref probably could have let go (I would) but 9 times out of 10, its a clear foul.

As Uncle Drew would say, 'don't reach young blood'.

The art of good man defense is gone. Nobody slides their feet anymore. Players now play with their hands. That's their fault, not Hardens.

[Im so nba'd out]

After getting a chance to watch his game more closely in the playoffs, I can understand where the hate comes from... he does the same thing Lou Williams does for the Raptors. He lunges forward and into the defender, and instead of protecting the ball, he holds it out and tries to get his arms into the defender to "draw contact". It's pretty cheesy, but if he were on "your" team... you would love it (at least I love it when Lou does it to his defender and they are all like 'WTF!', lol).
This is also what leads to his high TO totals... when he drives and extends his arms with the ball leaving it way out there to be slapped at. Many times the ball gets slapped away clean and Harden's body language makes it look like a foul. In reality, his TO totals and those of other players that use that move are probably a little lower than they should be as they get a foul call on some player where it would be a legit TO.

A lot of it has to do with body language and Harden, amongst others have come close to mastering it.

Hate all you want, but these players are just taking advantage of the rules as they are currently.

*NOTE* - I am ignoring phantom calls because realistically all the superstars get these calls so it's a mute point.
Sounds like the haters should be mad @ the ref for calling fouls based on body language.:confusedshrug:

[Phenith]

Sounds like the haters should be mad @ the ref for calling fouls based on body language.:confusedshrug:

I agree, I even called it cheesy... but I'm sure the refs could start calling flopping now and again and that would make some happy and others not. It's like block/charge, except never gets called a charge.

The best call on the questionable ones is "no call", but "superstars" get the benefit of the doubt a lot.

[warriorfan]

Just seen a video where steven a smith is hating on harden for getting fouls:lol .You hating azz fakkits really want the refs to rig the game and not give him calls.i can see if you fakkits would say everyone should get calls like him but no you just want him to not get calls.****ing haters



no basketball fans would just like to see him make a fuccing fieldgoal every once in awhile