Is Kyrie the best teammate LBJ has ever had?

[Solefade]

Although Wade was a better and more complete player in his prime, has a more established resume when LeBron and Wade played together, I think Kyrie might possibly be the best teammate LeBron has ever had. Agree or nah?


This isn't a bait or overreaction thread.

[Kingwillball]

Wade his first year or so was more complete and accomplished(championship) but Irving fits with Lebron better on court as he and wade were too similar. Irving also is getting better and has many more years of prime play barring injury so in a few years he may turn out to be his best/ most important teammate as far as helping secure titles.

[Prometheus]

I think Kyrie's game is a better compliment for LeBron than Wade's game was. Right now, in terms of offense, Kyrie is playing at least as well as Wade did at any point during LeBron's four years in Miami.

However, Wade brought to the table a defensive prowess, intensity, championship swagger, composure, and leadership that Kyrie knows nothing about. His leadership and composure were actually superior to LeBron's as well.

In time, I think you may be right.

[scm5]

Lebron and Wade on fast breaks was unstoppable.

[game3524]

2011 Wade is best teammate Lebron has ever had.

[aj1987]

I think Kyrie's game is a better compliment for LeBron than Wade's game was. Right now, in terms of offense, Kyrie is playing at least as well as Wade did at any point during LeBron's four years in Miami.

However, Wade brought to the table a defensive prowess, intensity, championship swagger, composure, and leadership that Kyrie knows nothing about. His leadership and composure were actually superior to LeBron's as well.

In time, I think you may be right.
'11 and '12 Wade >>>

[Haymaker]

Lebron and Wade on fast breaks was unstoppable.

This. Kyrie fits Bron better now that he's starting to decline a little bit. But Bron/Wade were some serious shit in the fastbreak.

[Clyde]

Wade easily

[Lebron23]

Wade

[SugarHill]

2011 Wade >>> Kyrie

[Prometheus]

'11 and '12 Wade >>>

It's arguable. We can disagree.

But I think the use of ">>>" needs to be toned down here on ISH. That symbol is used in mathematics when one quantity is so much greater than another that the second becomes insignificant. "'11 and '12 Wade > '15 Kyrie" is fine, but ">>>" is more like comparing the offense of Michael Jordan and Tiago Splitter.

[SugarHill]

It's arguable. We can disagree.

But I think the use of ">>>" needs to be toned down here on ISH. That symbol is used in mathematics when one quantity is so much greater than another that the second becomes insignificant. "'11 and '12 Wade > '15 Kyrie" is fine, but ">>>" is more like comparing the offense of Michael Jordan and Tiago Splitter.
Has Kyrie really changed that much in a year to go from laughing stock "can't make playoffs, barely top 10 overrated PG" to this dude that some say is the best LeBron has played with and the leader of the Cavs? Really? People are so hyperbolic when it comes to sports.

[aj1987]

It's arguable. We can disagree.

But I think the use of ">>>" needs to be toned down here on ISH. That symbol is used in mathematics when one quantity is so much greater than another that the second becomes insignificant. "'11 and '12 Wade > '15 Kyrie" is fine, but ">>>" is more like comparing the offense of Michael Jordan and Tiago Splitter.
Nope. Not even arguable. Kyrie had big games, but dude would stink it up the next couple of games. He was inconsistent AF. Definitely not a better offensive player than '11 and '12 Wade.

Sure, '12 Wade > '15 Irving, but '11 Wade >>> '15 Irving.

[hawksdogsbraves]

2012 Wade only played in 49 regular season games and his stats took a clear dip because of those injuries, so I guess you could make the argument that Irving was more valuable.

2011 Wade was simply better than Irving across the board, there's really no argument to the contrary.

[Solefade]

during the championship years, wade's brilliance only came in flashes and wasn't that consistent because of his health, I think Kyrie is getting to the point of being consistently great with lebron..yeah kyrie doesn't provide the defense and intangibles wade did but his on-court production has been consistently good

[navy]

2012 Wade only played in 49 regular season games, so I guess you could make the argument that Irving was more valuable.

2011 Wade was simply better than Irving across the board, there's really no argument to the contrary.
lockout year

[Magic 32]

Let him play a plus .500 team first.

[hawksdogsbraves]

lockout year

Ooh yeah that's right, stupid me :facepalm

[sd3035]

Kyrie may be the most talented player ever, he has potential to be better than Jordan

[SouBeachTalents]

2011 Wade is the best teammate LeBron will ever have, and I'd still take 2012 Wade and 2013 regular season Wade over current Kyrie

[KyrieTheFuture]

As has been said, not 2011 Wade but I fully expect next year or the following for that to change.

[G0ATbe]

Kyrie is the best fit. He's only just turned 23 and already comparable to 2011 Wade (whom was better than peak LeBald by miles). It's like he's got 2nd year Wade this time around instead of Wade in his 30s. With LeBalds knack for bringing in legends/all star teammates and the weak ass east, Kyrie should be carrying his team to rings for the next decade.

[IncarceratedBob]

Kyrie is still an NBA baby. No doubt in my mind peak KI will be > peak Wade, but who knows if LeBron will still be around for Peak Kyrie, which is still 3-4 years away

[nba_55]

Nope. Not even arguable. Kyrie had big games, but dude would stink it up the next couple of games. He was inconsistent AF. Definitely not a better offensive player than '11 and '12 Wade.

Sure, '12 Wade > '15 Irving, but '11 Wade >>> '15 Irving.

12 Wade < Kyrie
11 Wade > Kyrie

You blame Kyrie was being inconsistent? LOL 12 wade was more inconsistent.

[Optimus Prime]

2011 Wade was Finals MVP if LeBeta didn't have one of the biggest choke jobs in NBA Finals history.

:kobe:

[red1]

How about we revisit this thread after two championships and 4 straight finals.

[Solefade]

12 Wade < Kyrie
11 Wade > Kyrie

You blame Kyrie was being inconsistent? LOL 12 wade was more inconsistent.


it's still yet to be seen, but '12 wade wasn't that great IMO, reliable enough but not great

[Solefade]

How about we revisit this thread after two championships and 4 straight finals.


kinda speaks more to bron's brilliance tho :confusedshrug:

[RedBlackAttack]

Has Kyrie really changed that much in a year to go from laughing stock "can't make playoffs, barely top 10 overrated PG" to this dude that some say is the best LeBron has played with and the leader of the Cavs? Really? People are so hyperbolic when it comes to sports.
Anyone who thought Kyrie Irving was a "laughing stock" last year wasn't watching him play. You talk about hyperbole... that fits the definition far greater than this thread.

And, yeah... things have changed quite a bit. He was 21 freaking years old last year, which made him the youngest starting PG in the entire league. The team around him was a total mess, to the point where the Cavs spent the first 30 games trying to run their offense through Andrew Bynum and the rest of the season attempting to fit Kyrie and Waiters together which, in retrospect, was a terrible fit.

This is the first year Kyrie has ever played with anything resembling proper spacing and a legitimate rim protector... two things that are almost mandatory in today's NBA.

And, he's growing as a player the way most 22-23 year old players do.

Anyone who thought they had Kyrie Irving figured out because his efficency dropped as a 21-year-old on a team that never fit his talents... well, you're seeing how wrong that presumption was.

It's not like he has only played well with James as his teammate. Hell, he was named the FIBA MVP this past offseason while playing on the same team as James Harden, Anthony Davis and Stephen Curry.

At some point, people are going to have to accept how good this guy is and could become... whether they like it or not.

[Cold soul]

Wade easily.

[supermechasonic]

2011 wade was better than current Irving and 2012 as well albeit its a closer comparison.

[J Shuttlesworth]

2011 2012 Wade > Kyrie > 2013 2014 Wade

Wade is an awesome defender, but Kyrie offensively fits a bit better with LeBron than Wade did. Irving is a better pure shooter and one of the best finishers in the rim at the game. Wade was obviously more experienced though. I wouldn't say "better" but perhaps better fit.

[JebronLames]

Yes. Much better fit than Wade.

[bdreason]

Wade played both sides of the ball. That Heat team won championships because of their perimeter defense. I'm not sure I've ever seen an NBA team have more success trapping on picks... and a lot of that had to do with Wade.

[greatest-ever]

The Wade disrespect is ridiculous. 2011 Wade was on a different stratosphere from Kyrie, and i'd give 2012 Wade an edge as well because he did have some pivotal games in the playoffs and was just a better defender and more experienced player than Kyrie.

I guess in 4-5 years you can argue that as a whole he was better than Wade from 2011-2014 but for now this is a joke question.

[greatest-ever]

It's arguable. We can disagree.

But I think the use of ">>>" needs to be toned down here on ISH. That symbol is used in mathematics when one quantity is so much greater than another that the second becomes insignificant. "'11 and '12 Wade > '15 Kyrie" is fine, but ">>>" is more like comparing the offense of Michael Jordan and Tiago Splitter.
It isn't that ridiculous to say. 2011 Wade was better than Kyrie on offense and defense it isn't even close. 2012 Wade vs Kyrie is closer for sure though.

[dannywpt]

Kyrie is an insanely talented scorer, shooter and ball handler, but 2010-2012 Wade was an all-around superstar and clear top 5 player in the league

[greatest-ever]

I think Kyrie's game is a better compliment for LeBron than Wade's game was. Right now, in terms of offense, Kyrie is playing at least as well as Wade did at any point during LeBron's four years in Miami.

However, Wade brought to the table a defensive prowess, intensity, championship swagger, composure, and leadership that Kyrie knows nothing about. His leadership and composure were actually superior to LeBron's as well.

In time, I think you may be right.
The bold isn't true either. 2011 Wade was putting up nearly 26 ppg on 58 ts% while sharing touches with Lebron and Bosh and his playmaking is a bit better than Irving's as well. The only way you could argue Kyrie is as good offensively is if you are going by ball handling and better shooter. He isn't close to Wade as a scorer.

[Jailblazers7]

2011 Wade was good enough for people to legitimately question who the top dog was on that Miami team until Wade consciously took a backseat. Kyrie has been awesome but it's never been in question who the leader of this Cavs team is. Maybe Kyrie eventually becomes better but it will take him getting to another gear before that becomes debatable.

[tpols]

I think Kyrie's game is a better compliment for LeBron than Wade's game was. Right now, in terms of offense, Kyrie is playing at least as well as Wade did at any point during LeBron's four years in Miami.

However, Wade brought to the table a defensive prowess, intensity, championship swagger, composure, and leadership that Kyrie knows nothing about. His leadership and composure were actually superior to LeBron's as well.

In time, I think you may be right.

Kyrie knows a whOle lot more about clutch and closing than wade did.. like he on a whole other level closing games and taking games over. wade is a in the flow offensive machine like lebron or chris paul

2011 wade in a vacuum is better but kyrie is more potent in cavs current situation

[jzek]

2011 Wade is best teammate Lebron has ever had.

So why did LeBron leave him then?

[TheNaturalWR]

So why did LeBron leave him then?

Because 2011 Wade is currently present in 2015....:facepalm

[TheNaturalWR]

2011 Wade was good enough for people to legitimately question who the top dog was on that Miami team until Wade consciously took a backseat. Kyrie has been awesome but it's never been in question who the leader of this Cavs team is. Maybe Kyrie eventually becomes better but it will take him getting to another gear before that becomes debatable.

2011 Wade was good enough to be considered the best player in the NBA. That was the last year Dwyane Wade was actually Dwyane Wade. I doubt Kyrie will ever reach 2011 Wade. I mean the guy put up 26/6/5 on 50% FG while sharing touches with LeBron. If LeBron never came to Miami that year Wade would probably have been around 30/7/5 like 09.

[Solefade]

i don't know if we're watching the same wade in 2012, a lot of people here saying 2012 wade is alot better than this kyrie? really? lol i think it's arguable but it's pretty close

[navy]

lol, Cavs have played 1 playoff game. :roll:

[Smoke117]

2011 Wade is better than Kyrie will ever be. (and by a good margin)

[JellyBean]

I disagree. Wade was is best teammate, in my honest opinion.

[Jailblazers7]

2011 Wade was good enough to be considered the best player in the NBA. That was the last year Dwyane Wade was actually Dwyane Wade. I doubt Kyrie will ever reach 2011 Wade. I mean the guy put up 26/6/5 on 50% FG while sharing touches with LeBron. If LeBron never came to Miami that year Wade would probably have been around 30/7/5 like 09.

Yeah, it's highly unlikely that Kyrie is ever as good as Wade but I hate to say never because who knows.. Wade in his prime was one of the best guards the NBA has ever seen. Kyrie is obviously a great talent but I don't think he will be able to have the same impact as Wade even in his prime.

[yarrak]

2011 Wade> Kyrie

At the end of the playoffs, Wade was considered the best in the league by a lot of people. Kyrie isn't close to that level yet.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

2011 Wade. But Kyrie is better than anybody but him IMO.

[navy]

Kyrie hasnt done enough to say he was better than 2012 Wade. Stop overreacting after 1 playoff game. He might get there. Just wait.

[Dro]

Is this a serious question?

[Solefade]

Is this a serious question?


yes it is as you can see from the different answers in this thread :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[ALBballer]

2011 Wade was a better player but Irving complements Lebron's game much better.

[SouBeachTalents]

Kyrie is still an NBA baby. No doubt in my mind peak KI will be > peak Wade, but who knows if LeBron will still be around for Peak Kyrie, which is still 3-4 years away

:facepalm

[Jacks3]

Kyrie is a much better fit.

Mainly because he obliterates Wade as a shooter.

That's one of the big reasons the Cavs offense in their first year has reached levels that Heat didn't get to until their third season.

[ILLsmak]

Although Wade was a better and more complete player in his prime, has a more established resume when LeBron and Wade played together, I think Kyrie might possibly be the best teammate LeBron has ever had. Agree or nah?


This isn't a bait or overreaction thread.

Maybe not yet but probably will be.

His best team tho.

-Smak

[Asukal]

Dunno but Kyrie has better killer instinct than bran. Easily. :oldlol:

[MJistheGOAT]

2011 Wade is the only one better than Kyrie, the hell in that year he was equal/slightly better than LBJ himself.

Kyrie has a chance to be better than D Wade.

[ILLsmak]

2011 Wade is better than Kyrie will ever be. (and by a good margin)

Thing is I think he is factoring in fit. Kyrie is a great fit w bron but I agree not yet. Ever I dunno. Wade does shit kyrie cant but kyrie is such an explosive scorer.

-Smak

[bizil]

D Wade is a top 3 SG of all time peak wise in my opinion. Peak Wade was the total package who was great at scoring, passing, defense, and rebounding for a SG. Plus he was a freak athlete to boot. So Kyrie has some shit to work on to be on the level of D-Wade.

Now in terms of scoring, I think Kyrie is a better fit because he's a better shooter. And has the sickest handles in the league to go with it. But Wade as of now is BY FAR the best player LBJ ever had.

[aj1987]

i don't know if we're watching the same wade in 2012, a lot of people here saying 2012 wade is alot better than this kyrie? really? lol i think it's arguable but it's pretty close
'12 Wade one of Wade's better defensive seasons. One of the reasons Miami's defense was as good as it was was because of Wade. Kyrie is not even close to being as good as Wade was defensively.

[guy]

Lot of overhyping Kyrie and underrating Wade. Kyrie put up 22/3/5 on 58 TS%. In Wade's "down years" the last 3 years, he put up 19/5/5 on 59 TS%, 21/5/5 on 57 TS%, and 22/5/5 on 56 TS%. On top of that, he was a much better defender.

As far as the playoffs go, Wade was definitely underwhelming the past 2 years. But in 2011, he was 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. He put 30/7/5 on 62 TS% against a great Celtics team and 27/7/5 on 61 TS% against the Mavs in the Finals. In 2012, he was 23/5/4 on 53 TS%. He closed out the Pacers with a 41/10 game on 17/25 shooting and averaged 26/6/3 on 54 TS% in that series. Then put up 21/6/5 on 52 TS% against the Celtics. Then 23/6/5 on 52 TS% against the Thunder in the Finals. We forget especially cause no one was paying attention to him that much at the time. Kyrie is not better then 2011 and 2012 Wade.

[ClipperRevival]

No, it was Wade. Kyrie has a ways to go to be on the same level of Wade.

[34-24 Footwork]

This thread has baited bran stans into relinquishing their only excuse when the Cavs lose....

[RedBlackAttack]

Lot of overhyping Kyrie and underrating Wade. Kyrie put up 22/3/5 on 58 TS%. In Wade's "down years" the last 3 years, he put up 19/5/5 on 59 TS%, 21/5/5 on 57 TS%, and 22/5/5 on 56 TS%. On top of that, he was a much better defender.

As far as the playoffs go, Wade was definitely underwhelming the past 2 years. But in 2011, he was 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. He put 30/7/5 on 62 TS% against a great Celtics team and 27/7/5 on 61 TS% against the Mavs in the Finals. In 2012, he was 23/5/4 on 53 TS%. He closed out the Pacers with a 41/10 game on 17/25 shooting and averaged 26/6/3 on 54 TS% in that series. Then put up 21/6/5 on 52 TS% against the Celtics. Then 23/6/5 on 52 TS% against the Thunder in the Finals. We forget especially cause no one was paying attention to him that much at the time. Kyrie is not better then 2011 and 2012 Wade.
1. He was 22.

2. Kyrie's numbers went up significantly after Jan. 15th when the big trade(s) happened. He averaged 23+ points on 48+/45+/88 splits for the 37 games after the team was overhauled.


LeBron needs space to be at his best. Kyrie is an elite jumpshooter. You say "lots of overhyping of Kyrie and underrating of Wade" in a thread where people are saying things like "Wade>>>>>Kyrie" and "Kyrie was a laughing stock last year."

Kyrie is becoming a very good player. How good? We don't know for sure yet. We'll see how the playoffs progress and we'll see how he continues to play as his career unfolds. He's still younger than MCW, Damian Lillard and Shabazz Napier.

But, I will say that I think he is the most explosive scorer LeBron ever played with. Irving has already scored 55 or more points twice in about 65 games with LeBron James. Wade played around 300 games with LeBron James and never did that once.

Irving has played one playoff game with LeBron and he scored 30 efficient points alongside him. Even in the season wherein Wade was supposedly ">>>>" than Kyrie (2011), he scored 30 or more points 5 times out of 21 playoff games.

So, we can sit here and sh!t on Kyrie Irving and snicker at the comparison, but Kyrie has done some pretty eye opening things this season.

Is scoring everything? No. But it is pretty obvious that these guys play extremely well with one another and that Kyrie is fulfilling his role on this team and then some.

It's way too early for these kinds of comparisons, but I think it is crazy to definitively say he can't become the best teammate (which also has to do with "fit") that LeBron has had.

Time will tell. One season at 22 and one playoff game at 23 isn't enough, though.

[aj1987]

Why do you keep bringing up age? This is Irving's 4th year in the league. He's definitely a very good player. He's not going to be a Wade/LeBron prime level player though. Ever. Wade was a FMVP at 24 (his 3rd year in the league) and LeBron was carrying scrubs to the Finals at 22 (his 4th year in the league).

Once again, '11 and '12 Wade played defense at a level which Irving probably never will. Wade was one of the main reasons why Miami was an ELITE defensive team. Those teams' perimeter D is probably top 10 all-time. That coupled with Wade averaging 25 one season and 23 the other puts him a tier above Irving.

[Johnni Gade]

Lebron and Wade on fast breaks was unstoppable.
:rockon: Those were the days.

[TheNaturalWR]

And can we please stop with the Wade and LeBron were a "bad" fit. Both players putting up 25+ PPG on 50% FG in 2011 were being bad fits? Wade being an amazing off the ball player and being a machine in the post should somewhat negate the spacing argument. They didn't become a "bad" fit until Wade started declining.

[hawksdogsbraves]

Why do you keep bringing up age? This is Irving's 4th year in the league. He's definitely a very good player. He's not going to be a Wade/LeBron prime level player though. Ever. Wade was a FMVP at 24 (his 3rd year in the league) and LeBron was carrying scrubs to the Finals at 22 (his 4th year in the league).

Once again, '11 and '12 Wade played defense at a level which Irving probably never will. Wade was one of the main reasons why Miami was an ELITE defensive team. Those teams' perimeter D is probably top 10 all-time. That coupled with Wade averaging 25 one season and 23 the other puts him a tier above Irving.

Prime Wade and Bran on the perimeter was the most ferocious defense I've ever seen.

Irving still has room to grow but I doubt he'll ever hit peak Wade levels, which is where he was in 2011 with the Heat. The fast breaks, the full court lobs, it was so fun to watch.

[navy]

And can we please stop with the Wade and LeBron were a "bad" fit. Both players putting up 25+ PPG on 50% FG in 2011 were being bad fits? Wade being an amazing off the ball player and being a machine in the post should somewhat negate the spacing argument. They didn't become a "bad" fit until Wade started declining.
This. Lebron shot much higher percentages in Miami that it isnt even funny for all the spacing Irving provides.

[RedBlackAttack]

Why do you keep bringing up age? This is Irving's 4th year in the league. He's definitely a very good player. He's not going to be a Wade/LeBron prime level player though. Ever. Wade was a FMVP at 24 (his 3rd year in the league) and LeBron was carrying scrubs to the Finals at 22 (his 4th year in the league).

Once again, '11 and '12 Wade played defense at a level which Irving probably never will. Wade was one of the main reasons why Miami was an ELITE defensive team. Those teams' perimeter D is probably top 10 all-time. That coupled with Wade averaging 25 one season and 23 the other puts him a tier above Irving.
I never insinuated Kyrie was going to be as good as LeBron James, who will likely finish his career as a Top 5-10 player to ever lace them up. Wade will not, so let's not pretend they're equals in the grand scheme.

Secondly, what Wade did prior to his tenure with LeBron James joining the team is completely irrelevant. This discussion is about which guy will go down as LeBron's best teammate... as in, the time they spent on the same team, how they fit together as teammates.

Third, acting as though age plays no part in player growth is ludicrous. Players peak differently. It just so happens that Wade's most impressive playoff run came when he was 24.

That doesn't mean that every player progresses in the same manner. In fact, most don't nowadays. Wade spent three years in college honing his craft. Irving has been learning on the fly since he was 19. And, since he has continued to improve as a player, it's silly to put a cap on how good he can be.

[RedBlackAttack]

This. Lebron shot much higher percentages in Miami that it isnt even funny for all the spacing Irving provides.
Probably because he was basically playing power forward for the last three years in Miami, thus working from closer to the rim. Those guys usually shoot higher percentages.

No one is trying to sh!t on Wade, here. I was one of the people who thought he was the 2nd best player in the league when they joined up in the summer of 2010. What I don't get are the attempts to put a cap on how good Irving and James can become together.

Just let it play out.

[zoom17]

Wade easily

[navy]

Probably because he was basically playing power forward for the last three years in Miami, thus working from closer to the rim. Those guys usually shoot higher percentages.

No one is trying to sh!t on Wade, here. I was one of the people who thought he was the 2nd best player in the league when they joined up in the summer of 2010. What I don't get are the attempts to put a cap on how good Irving and James can become together.

Just let it play out.
That and Wade and Lebron kept each other in check and always looked for the best shot possible. Which is why they both shot insane percentages from the field. Whereas Lebron and Irving will toss em up. Granted Irving tosses em up with the best of them.

Im not hating on Kyrie. He has all the tools to become the best scoring point guard ever. Just seems like people disrespecting Wade based on recent memories of him and obvious agendas. As if the Cavs haven't played only 1 playoff game.

[RedBlackAttack]

That and Wade and Lebron kept each other in check and always looked for the best shot possible. Which is why they both shot insane percentages from the field. Whereas Lebron and Irving will toss em up. Granted Irving tosses em up with the best of them.

Im not hating on Kyrie. He has all the tools to become the best scoring point guard ever. Just seems like people disrespecting Wade based on recent memories of him and obvious agendas. As if the Cavs haven't played only 1 playoff game.
That's not what I'm seeing just perusing the thread. I see most people saying "Wade easily," "Wade >>>> Kyrie," etc.

I'm not disputing that a prime Wade is superior to current Irving. That seems rather obvious. I'm not even arguing that Kyrie will eventually go down as the best teammate James has had.

I'm just saying that a lot of these dismissive attitudes of a guy who has been eye-openingly good this year and a clear great offensive fit with James shouldn't be just brushed off, especially when looking down the road.

Because, anyone who thinks this guy is currently in his prime... I think he's just scratching the surface. And, unlike most people on here, I've watched every game he has played in his career. I think it will still be a few more years before we see the best he has to offer.

[aj1987]

I never insinuated Kyrie was going to be as good as LeBron James, who will likely finish his career as a Top 5-10 player to ever lace them up. Wade will not, so let's not pretend they're equals in the grand scheme.
Wade and LeBron were pretty much equal till the '11 season. 2012 is where LeBron really separated himself Wade.


Secondly, what Wade did prior to his tenure with LeBron James joining the team is completely irrelevant. This discussion is about which guy will go down as LeBron's best teammate... as in, the time they spent on the same team, how they fit together as teammates.
Since you're bringing up age instead of the number of years in the league, it's definitely relevant. This is Irving's 4th season in the league. More than enough time to establish himself. I see you use his age as an excuse all the time, whenever he doesn't perform well.


Third, acting as though age plays no part in player growth is ludicrous. Players peak differently. It just so happens that Wade's most impressive playoff run came when he was 24.
Again, 4th year in the league. 4 seasons of basketball. I don't care if he's 20 and came into the league at 16. 4 seasons is ample of time to develop.

All that is irrelevant. '11 Wade was a significantly better offensive and defensive player than '15 Irving. '12 Wade was a significant better defensive and a better offensive player than '15 Irving. At no point of time has Irving been the "best" teammate that LeBron had. It's not even close. This can be a discussion when Irving does to a team what Wade did to the '12 Pacers.

[pauk]

Wade (2010-2014).... Kyrie had/has only better handles & a better jumpshot, but Wade was better at everything else, especially defensively.... and far more complementary of a player for Lebron with his IQ & unselfishness, Kyrie would and is just as and/or even more complementary with Lebron if/when he actually does his PG job.... still effective as he is a great scorer, but im just no fan of the PG position being played that way, i think that scoring/chucking/not dishing belongs at SG a la Iverson..

[Kobe_6/8]

I think Wade was better from 2011-2012.

2011 Finals (Game 2)
Wade: 34/5/6 on 65% shooting.

Let's see Kyrie do something like that in the playoffs with Bron.

[jbryan1984]

We are yet to see the best of kyrie. He gets better every year and is still so young. I saw flashes of AI g is rookie year. Its crazy seeing these rankings where guys like Conley, Lillard etc. Only guys better at this stage is CP3, Curry and Westbrook. Also, hisc defense has improved greatly. I dont pay attention to stats but I have probably watched 95 percent of Kyries pro games. Just seems like he has a lot more steals this year and is always on his man. And I don't believe anyone in the NBA can handle a basketball like Irving.

[NuggetsFan]

Kinda unfair right now. Irving put up 22/5/3 which is really good but Wade was a better scorer for a few years, and easily better at everything else on the basketball court. Wade without LeBron would have been an MVP candidate. Irving has also only played 1 playoff game.

Need more time but I don't see Irving matching Wade. Wade is one of the best players of this generation, constantly near the top of his position/best. That first/second year of Wade don't see Irving touching, the later years maybe. I think Irving could wind up being the best scorer LeBron has played with, but Wade just blows him away at everything else. Especially defensively.

[oarabbus]

How can anyone say ringless Kyrie is better than Wade?

[sick_brah07]

wade and bron in those first 2 years and especially the first year together were the best back court i have ever seen in my life, only mj and scottie could or should be ranked higher but I personally have never seen better

[TheNaturalWR]

wade and bron in those first 2 years and especially the first year together were the best back court i have ever seen in my life, only mj and scottie could or should be ranked higher but I personally have never seen better

Yup. LeBron disappearing in 2011 really has made people fail to realize this and how good the 2011 Heat actually were.

[Hoopz2332]

2011 and 2012 Wade when he was healthy are better than Kyrie.

[Derka]

As it stands right now, I still give the nod to 2011/2012 Wade.

But if Kyrie hits his prime in a couple of years and should Lebron still be a Cav? Yikes.

[r15mohd]

Yup. LeBron disappearing in 2011 really has made people fail to realize this and how good the 2011 Heat actually were.

they were good...but not as good as the 2012 or 2013 Heat. 2011 was strictly talent, no real game plan IMO. just go out and find a way to win with Lebron/Wade taking turns.

2012 and 2013, the Heat had better defense, a better offensive direction, that 27 game win streak with both Wade and Bron going off, and even Bosh reemerging too. by far the better years, capped off with the titles to prove it.

2014 it was all Lebron, everyone got old and complacent besides him it seems. defense wasn't as good, Wade and Bosh with disappearing acts moreso than ever before. basically Cavs 2.0 by the time the Finals reached.

[Hoopz2332]

they were good...but not as good as the 2012 or 2013 Heat. 2011 was strictly talent, no real game plan IMO. just go out and find a way to win with Lebron/Wade taking turns.

2012 and 2013, the Heat had better defense, a better offensive direction, that 27 game win streak with both Wade and Bron going off, and even Bosh reemerging too. by far the better years, capped off with the titles to prove it.

2014 it was all Lebron, everyone got old and complacent besides him it seems. defense wasn't as good, Wade and Bosh with disappearing acts moreso than ever before. basically Cavs 2.0 by the time the Finals reached.


this:applause:

[Hoopz2332]

wade and bron in those first 2 years and especially the first year together were the best back court i have ever seen in my life,


Dwyane Wade & Lebron James Alley oop MIX

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjYzL6Dw2LA

[upside24]

they were good...but not as good as the 2012 or 2013 Heat. 2011 was strictly talent, no real game plan IMO. just go out and find a way to win with Lebron/Wade taking turns.

2012 and 2013, the Heat had better defense, a better offensive direction, that 27 game win streak with both Wade and Bron going off, and even Bosh reemerging too. by far the better years, capped off with the titles to prove it.

2014 it was all Lebron, everyone got old and complacent besides him it seems. defense wasn't as good, Wade and Bosh with disappearing acts moreso than ever before. basically Cavs 2.0 by the time the Finals reached.
Well said.

[tmacattack33]

Offensively, current Kyrie is very close to 2011 Wade. It's a toss up.

He certainly fits better with Lebron though. As Lebron gets Irving open three pointers...he couldn't do that with Wade. Well, he could, but Wade would just miss the shot or pass it up.

[greatest-ever]

Offensively, current Kyrie is very close to 2011 Wade. It's a toss up.


I'm no he isn't that is just stupid. Wade was clearly better scorer and an equal or better at playmaking. Better shooter doesn't= better offense alone.

You probably didn't even watch 2011 Wade.

[ShawkFactory]

Offensively, current Kyrie is very close to 2011 Wade. It's a toss up.

He certainly fits better with Lebron though. As Lebron gets Irving open three pointers...he couldn't do that with Wade. Well, he could, but Wade would just miss the shot or pass it up.
Kyrie's offensive game certainly fits better with Lebron than Wade's, but Wade was the better offensive player. Especially if you factor in playmaking.

Kyrie isn't a great playmaker unless its to Lebron. Those two have awesome chemistry.

[Solefade]

I'm no he isn't that is just stupid. Wade was clearly better scorer and an equal or better at playmaking. Better shooter doesn't= better offense alone.

You probably didn't even watch 2011 Wade.

i don't think 2011 wade is clearly better offensively, kyrie is so much more potent offensively

[ShawkFactory]

i don't think 2011 wade is clearly better offensively, kyrie is so much more potent offensively
In that he can get hot from deep? Wade could relentlessly attack, get to the line, and keep an entire defense on its toes for a whole game. Kyrie hasn't shown to be able to do that consistently yet.

[greatest-ever]

i don't think 2011 wade is clearly better offensively, kyrie is so much more potent offensively
LMAO. Based on what? Being a better shooter and ball handler?

2011 Wade: 25.5 PPG 58 ts%
2015 Kyrie: 21.7 PPG 58 ts%

Both were averaging around 5 assists a game. Prime Wade(2011 is still his prime) was arguably the best slasher of all time or 2nd next to MJ, drew fouls at a much higher rate than Kyrie, attacked the basket better, and a better post up game. He also was an outstanding playoff performer who could go off for 40 on any given night against any defense. It's incredibly asinine to say Kyrie was better offensivly or even close to Wade.

[Solefade]

LMAO. Based on what? Being a better shooter and ball handler?

2011 Wade: 25.5 PPG 58 ts%
2015 Kyrie: 21.7 PPG 58 ts%

Both were averaging around 5 assists a game. Prime Wade(2011 is still his prime) was arguably the best slasher of all time or 2nd next to MJ, drew fouls at a much higher rate than Kyrie, attacked the basket better, and a better post up game. He also was an outstanding playoff performer who could go off for 40 on any given night against any defense. It's incredibly asinine to say Kyrie was better offensivly or even close to Wade.


yeah he's clearly a better long range shooter, better handles, not as physical as wade is but is very adept around/finishing at the rim...he's naturally a better fit with lebron

[tpols]

LMAO. Based on what? Being a better shooter and ball handler?

2011 Wade: 25.5 PPG 58 ts%
2015 Kyrie: 21.7 PPG 58 ts%

Both were averaging around 5 assists a game. Prime Wade(2011 is still his prime) was arguably the best slasher of all time or 2nd next to MJ, drew fouls at a much higher rate than Kyrie, attacked the basket better, and a better post up game. He also was an outstanding playoff performer who could go off for 40 on any given night against any defense. It's incredibly asinine to say Kyrie was better offensivly or even close to Wade.

Check the clutch #s on 82 games..

Kyrie absolutely shits on wade in terms of closing games. especially 2011 wade who was total garbage in crunchtime. that's why kyrie looks so good with bron.. Bron supplies the mid game offense. . And Kyrie closes.

wade couldn't close but only take turns with bron scoring mid game in the flow buckets. When direct takeover scoring was needed wade flopped. Kyrie lights it up in those situation. He's a more potent scorer when hot.. Wade is more consistent.

How many 50+ point games w/ GWs did wade have like kyrie did against the Spurs and portland ??

[OnFire]

Check the clutch #s on 82 games..

Kyrie absolutely shits on wade in terms of closing games. especially 2011 wade who was total garbage in crunchtime. that's why kyrie looks so good with bron.. Bron supplies the mid game offense. . And Kyrie closes.

wade couldn't close but only take turns with bron scoring mid game in the flow buckets. When direct takeover scoring was needed wade flopped. Kyrie lights it up in those situation. He's a more potent scorer when hot.. Wade is more consistent.

How many 50+ point games w/ GWs did wade have like kyrie did against the Spurs and portland ??

Kyrie is so clutch he never got to the playoffs or even close without LeBron. In the "weak east"

[upside24]

Kyrie is so clutch he never got to the playoffs or even close without LeBron. In the "weak east"
This years Cavs is a little different from last year. Who was Kyrie's best teammate last year? Waiters?

They added LeBron, Love, Shumpert, Smith, Mozgov and a new coach.

If Kyrie had another quality player and a good supporting cast getting into the playoffs wouldn't have been as difficult.

[aj1987]

Check the clutch #s on 82 games..

Kyrie absolutely shits on wade in terms of closing games. especially 2011 wade who was total garbage in crunchtime. that's why kyrie looks so good with bron.. Bron supplies the mid game offense. . And Kyrie closes.

wade couldn't close but only take turns with bron scoring mid game in the flow buckets. When direct takeover scoring was needed wade flopped. Kyrie lights it up in those situation. He's a more potent scorer when hot.. Wade is more consistent.

How many 50+ point games w/ GWs did wade have like kyrie did against the Spurs and portland ??
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Dwyane Wade:
http://i.imgur.com/I6YB12J.png

Kyrie Irving:
http://i.imgur.com/jsmTkin.png


4th Quarters in '11:

Wade - 6.8 PPG 2.0 RPG 1.1 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG 44.8% FG% 31.7% 3pt% 72.3%

Irving - 5.6 PPG 0.8 RPG 1.0 APG 0.4 SPG 0.1 BPG 43.0% FG% 33.7% 3pt% 85.5% FT%

Wade was so much better than Irving defensively and at playmaking, it's not even comparable.

A better comparison would be '08-'10 Kobe vs '15 Irving.

[dubeta]

LMAO. Based on what? Being a better shooter and ball handler?

2011 Wade: 25.5 PPG 58 ts%
2015 Kyrie: 21.7 PPG 58 ts%

Both were averaging around 5 assists a game. Prime Wade(2011 is still his prime) was arguably the best slasher of all time or 2nd next to MJ, drew fouls at a much higher rate than Kyrie, attacked the basket better, and a better post up game. He also was an outstanding playoff performer who could go off for 40 on any given night against any defense. It's incredibly asinine to say Kyrie was better offensivly or even close to Wade.

He wasnt even the best slasher on his own team..

[tpols]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

4th Quarters in '11:

Wade - 6.8 PPG 2.0 RPG 1.1 APG 0.5 SPG 0.4 BPG 44.8% FG% 31.7% 3pt% 72.3%

Irving - 5.6 PPG 0.8 RPG 1.0 APG 0.4 SPG 0.1 BPG 43.0% FG% 33.7% 3pt% 85.5% FT%

Wade was so much better than Irving defensively and at playmaking, it's not even comparable.

A better comparison would be '08-'10 Kobe vs '15 Irving.

Did you just compare rookie Kyrie to prime 2011 Wade ?? lol..

The funny thing is.. their numbers are comparable. Wade gets 1 extra board and 1 point, has 1% on that FG, but Kyrie provides better 3pt%, and FT%.


Kyrie in 2012

Led league in points per 48 in crunchtime by a big margin.
56/9/4, 54FG

2013... again led the league..

54/7/6, 47FG

2014.. second most points

48/7/3, 38FG


Wade in 2011.. 24th in crunchtime volume

38/8/3, 39FG


Kyrie's worst years are better than Wade's 2011 crunchtime performances. Wade regularly got bottled up once the game tightened up and him and lebron played hot potatoe until one got a lane or a 3 pt shooter got open.. kyrie adds a different dynamic and spaces the court and is ridiculously clutch with his jumper.. wade in 2011 wasnt. He sucked in crunchtime.

[dubeta]

Did you just compare rookie Kyrie to prime 2011 Wade ?? lol..

The funny thing is.. their numbers are comparable. Wade gets 1 extra board and 1 point, has 1% on that FG, but Kyrie provides better 3pt%, and FT%.


Kyrie in 2012

Led league in points per 48 in crunchtime by a big margin.
56/9/4, 54FG

2013... again led the league..

54/7/6, 47FG

2014.. second most points

48/7/3, 38FG


Wade in 2011.. 24th in crunchtime volume

38/8/3, 39FG


Kyrie's worst years are better than Wade's 2011 crunchtime performances. Wade regularly got bottled up once the game tightened up and him and lebron played hot potatoe until one got a lane or a 3 pt shooter got open.. kyrie adds a different dynamic and spaces the court and is ridiculously clutch with his jumper.. wade in 2011 wasnt. He sucked in crunchtime.

Combine Wade and Kyrie together and you still dont get Shaq

/thread

[smoovegittar]

Too early.

[TheNaturalWR]

they were good...but not as good as the 2012 or 2013 Heat. 2011 was strictly talent, no real game plan IMO. just go out and find a way to win with Lebron/Wade taking turns.

2012 and 2013, the Heat had better defense, a better offensive direction, that 27 game win streak with both Wade and Bron going off, and even Bosh reemerging too. by far the better years, capped off with the titles to prove it.

2014 it was all Lebron, everyone got old and complacent besides him it seems. defense wasn't as good, Wade and Bosh with disappearing acts moreso than ever before. basically Cavs 2.0 by the time the Finals reached.

I watched every single Heat game, the 2011 Heat were the best. It doesn't matter if the offense was your turn my turn, it worked and they breezed through the playoffs until LeBron decided to go ghost. 2012, 2013, and 2014 all had tough playoff series because of the fact that Wade wasn't at his 2011 form. You think if 2011 Wade was on the 2013 Heat, the Heat would've have been pushed to 6 by the Spurs? Keep in mind that Wade basically had one Wade-like game and what a coincidence, the Heat won that game.

The 2011 Heat featured 2 top 3 players, and arguably the TWO BEST players in the game. A prime Wade compared to a top 10-15 player-Wade is a huge difference.

[aj1987]

Did you just compare rookie Kyrie to prime 2011 Wade ?? lol..

The funny thing is.. their numbers are comparable. Wade gets 1 extra board and 1 point, has 1% on that FG, but Kyrie provides better 3pt%, and FT%.

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CLE1.HTM

2015 Irving vs 2011 Wade. In all, Wade was a better clutch player, a FAR better offensive and defensive player in general.



Kyrie in 2012

Led league in points per 48 in crunchtime by a big margin.
56/9/4, 54FG

2013... again led the league..

54/7/6, 47FG

2014.. second most points

48/7/3, 38FG


Wade in 2011.. 24th in crunchtime volume

38/8/3, 39FG


Kyrie's worst years are better than Wade's 2011 crunchtime performances. Wade regularly got bottled up once the game tightened up and him and lebron played hot potatoe until one got a lane or a 3 pt shooter got open.. kyrie adds a different dynamic and spaces the court and is ridiculously clutch with his jumper.. wade in 2011 wasnt. He sucked in crunchtime.

:facepalm

We're comparing '15 Irving to '11 Wade. 82stats shows that he's not "ridiculously clutch".

Wade is also so much better on the defensive end during clutch time, it's not even close. Irving is nowhere close to being as good as Wade defensively.

2011 Wade on this Cav's team would've gotten them the #1 seed in the league.

[Kvnzhangyay]

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CLE1.HTM

2015 Irving vs 2011 Wade. In all, Wade was a better clutch player, a FAR better offensive and defensive player in general.




:facepalm

We're comparing '15 Irving to '11 Wade. 82stats shows that he's not "ridiculously clutch".

Wade is also so much better on the defensive end during clutch time, it's not even close. Irving is nowhere close to being as good as Wade defensively.

2011 Wade on this Cav's team would've gotten them the #1 seed in the league.

Wade is better as an individual player and defensively, but I think Kyrie is a better fit

[Smoke117]

http://www.82games.com/1415/14CLE1.HTM

2015 Irving vs 2011 Wade. In all, Wade was a better clutch player, a FAR better offensive and defensive player in general.




:facepalm

We're comparing '15 Irving to '11 Wade. 82stats shows that he's not "ridiculously clutch".

Wade is also so much better on the defensive end during clutch time, it's not even close. Irving is nowhere close to being as good as Wade defensively.

2011 Wade on this Cav's team would've gotten them the #1 seed in the league.

Are these clowns serious? Wade was one of the best defensive guards of all time in 2011...Kyrie was one of the most average guards of all time this season? Wade also averaged more points on better efficiency, more rebounds, and was a better play maker...but what was that in the face of this evidence that Kyrie was better...at nothing? :lol

But this thread is about sacrifice? Sacrificing for the betterment of the team? How did this exactly effect Kyrie? If only Bosh signed up duty, Wade would have been a top 3 MVP vote as they won 55+. Lets say the Cavs only get Kevin Love (the Bosh of the Cavs world)...would the Cavs be even close to a Wade/bosh 2011 team? Unlikely. Kyrie is going to carry a team like Wade did? I'll believe it when I see it...all he's ever done as the man is ensure a good draft pick.

[J Shuttlesworth]

LOL @ the idea of Irving being more clutch than Wade..

A guy who dropped multiple 40 pt games in the finals is supposed to be less clutch than a guy who has played 3 games in the playoffs? :biggums:

[Lebron23]

Let's see in the 2nd round of the playoffs.