View Full Version : Does the Big O have a case against Magic alltime?
Hamtaro CP3KDKG
04-21-2015, 02:46 AM
Everyone know bout da numbas........Big O was in the opposite situation of Magic, he was like the KG of his era. His impact on the game was on the same level as his peers (Russell, Jerry, Wilt / Kobe, Duncan, Dirk) but he was in a garbage management situation..........Magic OTOH was as blessed as any star. The nikka wouldnt even go into the NBA UNLESS he played w/ Kareem on Lakers. Oscar was like a bigger CP3 from the tape ive seen, bigger more athletic but not as skilled overall (close tho). He could do it all, post up, shoot, great handles for a 60s player, pickandroll game on point, underrated defender etc. and the numbers reflect this.........when u give him an alltimer like Kareem those Bucks were an alltime team w/ him runnin the offense and bein the leader..........similar to KG Celts 08 (except defense).........
All time? You mean was he a better player, because he has zero case over Magic all time
24-Inch_Chrome
04-21-2015, 02:52 AM
Better player? Possibly. Accolades? No.
He has a great case of being ranked higher than Magic All-Time and rightfully so.
Yeah, he's just as good as Magic if not better..But like has already been said, that doesn't put him over Magic on the all-time list......
He has, if your only criteria is talent/skill... stats... n such...
swagga
04-21-2015, 09:20 AM
He has a great case of being ranked higher than Magic All-Time and rightfully so.
http://media.giphy.com/media/kTIL3gvFPE1La/giphy.gif
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swagga
04-21-2015, 09:27 AM
Everyone know bout da numbas........Big O was in the opposite situation of Magic, he was like the KG of his era. His impact on the game was on the same level as his peers (Russell, Jerry, Wilt / Kobe, Duncan, Dirk) but he was in a garbage management situation..........Magic OTOH was as blessed as any star. The nikka wouldnt even go into the NBA UNLESS he played w/ Kareem on Lakers. Oscar was like a bigger CP3 from the tape ive seen, bigger more athletic but not as skilled overall (close tho). He could do it all, post up, shoot, great handles for a 60s player, pickandroll game on point, underrated defender etc. and the numbers reflect this.........when u give him an alltimer like Kareem those Bucks were an alltime team w/ him runnin the offense and bein the leader..........similar to KG Celts 08 (except defense).........
nice trolling there son. take this drake gif, cuz I know you a fan.
http://media.giphy.com/media/z6z7UXgOWVJ3fNn2Cc/giphy.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/gJlPCXvnquSti/giphy.gif
:lol
Hey Yo
04-21-2015, 09:55 AM
http://media.giphy.com/media/z6z7UXgOWVJ3fNn2Cc/giphy.gif
Nice imitation of Johnson's jumpshot. Shows why he never took jumpers.
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Nice imitation of Johnson's jumpshot. Shows why he never took jumpers.
How old are you seriously? Because I don't think you've ever seen Magic or Jordan play from your posts.......
Hey Yo
04-21-2015, 10:15 AM
Old enough to have seen both play, thank you.
It's not safe to say that Johnson couldn't shoot coming into the league and didn't develop an outside shot until late in his career?
4 Inches
04-21-2015, 10:21 AM
Magic > Oscar statpaderson
swagga
04-21-2015, 10:23 AM
Old enough to have seen both play, thank you.
It's not safe to say that Johnson couldn't shoot coming into the league and didn't develop an outside shot until late in his career?
yet he averaged 20+ on 53 FG% :biggums:
scorers aren't just shooters son. That's why lebron is a streaky shooter yet he is top 5 all time in playoffs ppg.
if you want to troll magic fans get in line with the program and say he had massively stacked teams in a conference weaker than the Least. And I'm saying troll because he destroyed those monster east teams in the finals and dragged the lakers through horribly injured seasons.
SMH trolls these days are lazy as hell, just spammers.
dh144498
04-21-2015, 10:28 AM
lol... O is barely even top 10.
Old enough to have seen both play, thank you.
It's not safe to say that Johnson couldn't shoot coming into the league and didn't develop an outside shot until late in his career?
You didn't say that. You said "he never took jumpers", implying that he could not shoot at all.....Which is not the case.
kennethgriffin
04-21-2015, 10:41 AM
If oscar had similar accolades he would be higher all time based on having more offensive and defensive skills
Kind of like how i put kobe over magic or atleast tied with him since he was twice the defensive player and has way more weapons on offense while also having 5 rings averaging 27/6/5 combined for all his titles
But oscar only has 1 title. And to crack the top 10 you need atleast 2 or 3
ShawkFactory
04-21-2015, 10:46 AM
Old enough to have seen both play, thank you.
It's not safe to say that Johnson couldn't shoot coming into the league and didn't develop an outside shot until late in his career?
:whatever:
SugarHill
04-21-2015, 10:55 AM
http://media.giphy.com/media/z6z7UXgOWVJ3fNn2Cc/giphy.gif
:oldlol:
Hey Yo
04-21-2015, 11:22 AM
You didn't say that. You said "he never took jumpers", implying that he could not shoot at all.....Which is not the case.
Okay, we'll just say he barely took them until late in his career because he wasn't able to effectively for most of his career. He did most of his damage in the post.
MiseryCityTexas
04-21-2015, 11:35 AM
Yeah, he's just as good as Magic if not better..But like has already been said, that doesn't put him over Magic on the all-time list......
i honestly think Magic was better than the Big O.
CavaliersFTW
04-21-2015, 01:42 PM
Kareem had Oscar for 4 seasons and Magic as his point guard for 10
He believes Oscar is the better player than Magic, in fact he believes Oscar is a better player than MJ and Lebron. He brings this up any time the topic is brought up in interview, and actually sometimes he'll bring Oscar up even if Oscar isn't a topic of discussion.
Point being, Oscar based on the criteria of on floor ability/talent is among the best all-time and that's the angle where he'll always have a case over Magic and a wide variety of other players. Simply how well he could play.
A "resume" is a popular way for ISH to rank players. But it's not the only way to rank players. Heck most of you guys probably don't even know, but players like Oscar were getting showered with prestigious awards, trophies titles and and accolades that we've now forgotten that don't show up on wikipedia or basketballreference because they're no longer handed out and/or have been forgotten. Oscars resume/trophy case is a lot bigger than we think it is. I remember Elgin Baylors auction and he had about 3 times as many high profile trophies and rings and honors as his wikipedia page would have otherwise indicated his memorabilia filled the entire auction house and that wasn't even all of it. In 1962 for example, there are articles detailing Wilt Chamberlain receiving his MVP trophy voted by a group of people I think the writers guild or something... one that is no longer recognized (Bill Russell received an MVP trophy voted by a different group of people, that's the one that the NBA honors today). So a resume is only as good as the awards that (sometimes by chance alone) remain timeless anyways.
dh144498
04-21-2015, 01:45 PM
Kareem had Oscar for 4 seasons and Magic for as his point guard for 10
He believes Oscar is the better player than Magic, in fact he believes Oscar is a better player than MJ and Lebron. He brings this up any time the topic is brought up in interview, and actually sometimes he'll bring Oscar up even if Oscar isn't a topic of discussion.
Point being, Oscar based on the criteria of on floor ability/talent is among the best all-time and that's the angle where he'll always have a case over Magic and a wide variety of other players. Simply how well he could play.
A "resume" is a popular way for ISH to rank players. But it's not the only way to rank players. Heck most of you guys probably don't even know, but players like Oscar were getting showered with prestigious awards, trophies titles and and accolades that we've now forgotten that don't show up on wikipedia or basketballreference because they're no longer handed out. Oscars resume/trophy case is a lot bigger than we think it is. I remember Elgin Baylors auction and he had about 3 times as many high profile trophies and rings and honors as his wikipedia page would have otherwise indicated his memorabilia filled the entire auction house and that wasn't even all of it.
nostalgia bruh. Oscar has 0 case for being a better player than MJ. He's not even better than Lebron.
CavaliersFTW
04-21-2015, 01:51 PM
nostalgia bruh. Oscar has 0 case for being a better player than MJ. He's not even better than Lebron.
Kareem played against MJ, he still argues Oscar was better.
It's opinion if you disagree and you have a right to disagree, but you certainly can't belittle Kareem's opinion nor anyone who's actually played and had an opportunity to experience a variety of players first hand for comparisons. he's someone who's seen Oscar, Magic, and Jordan operating on the floor first hand. Among many other great players such as Elgin, Dr. J, etc. It's of course his opinion, as other players of his generation favor other guys still (for example Oscar will say Elgin is the best he'd ever seen, Dr. J gives the nod to Kareem, and so on and so on).. Either way you can't just dismiss every testimony that disagree's with you as "nostalgia"... if you do maybe you're a victim of "nostalgia" yourself :oldlol:
kshutts1
04-21-2015, 02:02 PM
I have Magic and Oscar both in my first tier. I put them there because I think Oscar was the better player, but Magic has the better "resume" due to circumstance, etc. Very similar to the KG/Duncan argument, actually.
dh144498
04-21-2015, 02:09 PM
Kareem played against MJ, he still argues Oscar was better.
It's opinion if you disagree and you have a right to disagree, but you certainly can't belittle Kareem's opinion nor anyone who's actually played and had an opportunity to experience a variety of players first hand for comparisons. he's someone who's seen Oscar, Magic, and Jordan operating on the floor first hand. Among many other great players such as Elgin, Dr. J, etc. It's of course his opinion, as other players of his generation favor other guys still (for example Oscar will say Elgin is the best he'd ever seen, Dr. J gives the nod to Kareem, and so on and so on).. Either way you can't just dismiss every testimony that disagree's with you as "nostalgia"... if you do maybe you're a victim of "nostalgia" yourself :oldlol:
Dr.J also doesn't have MJ in his top 5.
Magic also said Kobe is the greatest Laker, so did Shaq.
Charles also said Kobe is one of the top 5 greatest ever, he also said Lebron may be better than MJ.
These legends have said alot of things but that doesn't validate the fact that they are wrong because facts and stats clearly state otherwise.
MiseryCityTexas
04-21-2015, 02:09 PM
Kareem played against MJ, he still argues Oscar was better.
It's opinion if you disagree and you have a right to disagree, but you certainly can't belittle Kareem's opinion nor anyone who's actually played and had an opportunity to experience a variety of players first hand for comparisons. he's someone who's seen Oscar, Magic, and Jordan operating on the floor first hand. Among many other great players such as Elgin, Dr. J, etc. It's of course his opinion, as other players of his generation favor other guys still (for example Oscar will say Elgin is the best he'd ever seen, Dr. J gives the nod to Kareem, and so on and so on).. Either way you can't just dismiss every testimony that disagree's with you as "nostalgia"... if you do maybe you're a victim of "nostalgia" yourself :oldlol:
Oscar was a beast regardless of who was better than who. We all can agree that Oscar Robertson is better than CP3, Tony Parker, and Derrick Rose.
kshutts1
04-21-2015, 02:16 PM
Dr.J also doesn't have MJ in his top 5.
Magic also said Kobe is the greatest Laker, so did Shaq.
Charles also said Kobe is one of the top 5 greatest ever, he also said Lebron may be better than MJ.
These legends have said alot of things but that doesn't validate the fact that they are wrong because facts and stats clearly state otherwise.
Everyone has their own criteria for ranking players. Again, just because you disagree does not mean that they are wrong.
I rank players by tiers, because I believe that trying to compare eras and positions is pretty ridiculous. That said, I've got Jordan in my first tier... but I also have 7 other players in my first tier. What that means is that I believe a case can be made for all 7 of those players to be better than Michael. And a case can be made for Michael to be better than all of them.
So someone leaving MJ out of their top 5? Big deal.
inclinerator
04-21-2015, 02:18 PM
Kareem played against MJ, he still argues Oscar was better.
It's opinion if you disagree and you have a right to disagree, but you certainly can't belittle Kareem's opinion nor anyone who's actually played and had an opportunity to experience a variety of players first hand for comparisons. he's someone who's seen Oscar, Magic, and Jordan operating on the floor first hand. Among many other great players such as Elgin, Dr. J, etc. It's of course his opinion, as other players of his generation favor other guys still (for example Oscar will say Elgin is the best he'd ever seen, Dr. J gives the nod to Kareem, and so on and so on).. Either way you can't just dismiss every testimony that disagree's with you as "nostalgia"... if you do maybe you're a victim of "nostalgia" yourself :oldlol:
and oscar said lebron is in a class of his own
bizil
04-21-2015, 02:44 PM
GOAT status factors team accolades, solo accolades, numbers, peak value, impact on the league (redefining a position, rules changes, etc.) and longevity being great. When u factor all of that, Big O has NO CASE over Magic. Peak wise, Big O has a case over Magic. In terms of being a great passer who is also a great scorer, Big O is the best of all time. He looked to pass first but averaged 30 points a night. Lebron is really the only other guy similar to that.
SHAQisGOAT
04-21-2015, 02:58 PM
Old enough to have seen both play, thank you.
It's not safe to say that Johnson couldn't shoot coming into the league and didn't develop an outside shot until late in his career?
Bit of an overstatement there.
I would never say that he flat-out couldn't shoot, at any point of his career. Yea, he wasn't what you'd call a good shooter when he 1st became a pro but he always developed that part of his game (and not only)...
By the mid-80's everybody started to realize that they couldn't just give him open jumpers anymore, because he would knock them down at a high rate, which meant serious trouble due to teams previously doing such things in order to deny his terrific passing skills, plus his great driving ability and post-game.
For example, he shot 56.4% from mid-range for the '84 Finals, with 55 out of his 84 shots coming from there. Celtics were giving him the open shot, doubling Kareem and such, while Johnson really made them pay.
He also always developed his shooting off the dribble - getting better as his career progressed - and the range on his shot, even shooting 38.4% from 3point land, on 3.5 attempts, in 1990.
Not to mention that he always was at least a nice FT shooter (even in his younger years), peaking at 91% on 7.3 attempts from the stripe, which is terrific.
jongib369
04-21-2015, 03:14 PM
Kareem had Oscar for 4 seasons and Magic as his point guard for 10
He believes Oscar is the better player than Magic, in fact he believes Oscar is a better player than MJ and Lebron. He brings this up any time the topic is brought up in interview, and actually sometimes he'll bring Oscar up even if Oscar isn't a topic of discussion.
Point being, Oscar based on the criteria of on floor ability/talent is among the best all-time and that's the angle where he'll always have a case over Magic and a wide variety of other players. Simply how well he could play.
A "resume" is a popular way for ISH to rank players. But it's not the only way to rank players. Heck most of you guys probably don't even know, but players like Oscar were getting showered with prestigious awards, trophies titles and and accolades that we've now forgotten that don't show up on wikipedia or basketballreference because they're no longer handed out and/or have been forgotten. Oscars resume/trophy case is a lot bigger than we think it is. I remember Elgin Baylors auction and he had about 3 times as many high profile trophies and rings and honors as his wikipedia page would have otherwise indicated his memorabilia filled the entire auction house and that wasn't even all of it. In 1962 for example, there are articles detailing Wilt Chamberlain receiving his MVP trophy voted by a group of people I think the writers guild or something... one that is no longer recognized (Bill Russell received an MVP trophy voted by a different group of people, that's the one that the NBA honors today). So a resume is only as good as the awards that (sometimes by chance alone) remain timeless anyways.
Kareem played against MJ, he still argues Oscar was better.
It's opinion if you disagree and you have a right to disagree, but you certainly can't belittle Kareem's opinion nor anyone who's actually played and had an opportunity to experience a variety of players first hand for comparisons. he's someone who's seen Oscar, Magic, and Jordan operating on the floor first hand. Among many other great players such as Elgin, Dr. J, etc. It's of course his opinion, as other players of his generation favor other guys still (for example Oscar will say Elgin is the best he'd ever seen, Dr. J gives the nod to Kareem, and so on and so on).. Either way you can't just dismiss every testimony that disagree's with you as "nostalgia"... if you do maybe you're a victim of "nostalgia" yourself :oldlol:
This, it isn't as back and white as people make it out to be. Depends what you want from your point guard, and who else is on the team. I'd still give a slight nod to Magic, because of his even larger size advantage. But like I said, it isn't an easy decision.
How long do you expect your Oscar project to be? And any time estimate on when it might be up? Same question for Russells
CavaliersFTW
04-21-2015, 03:58 PM
This, it isn't as back and white as people make it out to be. Depends what you want from your point guard, and who else is on the team. I'd still give a slight nod to Magic, because of his even larger size advantage. But like I said, it isn't an easy decision.
How long do you expect your Oscar project to be? And any time estimate on when it might be up? Same question for Russells
I haven't worked on either for quite a while now, my headphones broke about 2 months ago and I can only hear out of my right ear piece I was working on a revised Connie Hawkins piece but realized until I get a new pair I should focus on single-game highlights where it's not so critical to listen to bits of audio in stereo.
Not trying to disappoint but since I only work on projects in my free-time I'm on again off again. And docu-highlights of the comprehensive variety take a long long time to put together. The projects do still get worked on though.
swagga
04-21-2015, 06:18 PM
This, it isn't as back and white as people make it out to be. Depends what you want from your point guard, and who else is on the team. I'd still give a slight nod to Magic, because of his even larger size advantage. But like I said, it isn't an easy decision.
How long do you expect your Oscar project to be? And any time estimate on when it might be up? Same question for Russells
I haven't worked on either for quite a while now, my headphones broke about 2 months ago and I can only hear out of my right ear piece I was working on a revised Connie Hawkins piece but realized until I get a new pair I should focus on single-game highlights where it's not so critical to listen to bits of audio in stereo.
Not trying to disappoint but since I only work on projects in my free-time I'm on again off again. And docu-highlights of the comprehensive variety take a long long time to put together. The projects do still get worked on though.
yet an older kareem+magic were much more successful in a MUCH tougher era ... that logic doe :lol
you hipsters keep stanning these statpadding 60s chumps who got their silverware only by playing second fiddle :facepalm i bet you like enes "the stats and the L" kanter too :roll:
Marchesk
04-21-2015, 06:25 PM
yet an older kareem+magic were much more successful in a MUCH tougher era ... that logic doe :lol
you hipsters keep stanning these statpadding 60s chumps who got their silverware only by playing second fiddle :facepalm i bet you like enes "the stats and the L" kanter too :roll:
Oscar and Kareem were only teamed up for four seasons during which you had the Knicks best team ever, the Lakers with Wilt, and a Hondo/Cowens Celtics team that won 68 games one season, but lost to the Knicks in the playoffs.
That's four championship teams during that period (including the Bucks).
It also helped Magic that the Lakers had the first pick in the 82 draft somehow.
swagga
04-21-2015, 06:53 PM
Oscar and Kareem were only teamed up for four seasons during which you had the Knicks best team ever, the Lakers with Wilt, and a Hondo/Cowens Celtics team that won 68 games one season, but lost to the Knicks in the playoffs.
That's four championship teams during that period (including the Bucks).
It also helped Magic that the Lakers had the first pick in the 82 draft somehow.
it also helped that oscar chucked his way to a .46 fg% during those years on large volume.
you swap oscar with rookie magic and they are rolling all these teams.
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