how all the top 11 players all time rings stack up to each other

[kennethgriffin]

year they won / playoff points / rebounds / assists / great team mates (*lockout )


Michael Jordan

1991 - 31/6/8 ( Pippen )
1992 - 34/6/6 ( Pippen )
1993 - 35/7/6 ( Pippen )
1996 - 31/5/4 ( Pippen/ Rodman )
1997 - 31/8/5 ( Pippen/ Rodman )
1998 - 32/5/3 ( Pippen/ Rodman )

---------------------

Kobe Bryant

2000 - 21/4/4 ( Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( Shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( Shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( Gasol )
2010 - 29/6/5 ( Gasol )

----------------------

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

1971 - 26/17/2 ( Oscar/ Dandridge )
1980 - 32/12/3 ( Magic/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper )
1982 - 20/8/4 ( Magic/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1985 - 22/8/4 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1987 - 19/7/2 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper )
1988 - 14/5/1 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Green/ Cooper )

----------------------

Bill Russell

1957 - 14/24/3 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay )
1959 - 15/28/4 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones )
1960 - 18/26/3 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones )
1961 - 19/30/5 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders )
1962 - 22/26/5 ( Cousy/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders/ KC.Jones )
1963 - 20/25/5 ( Cousy/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders/ KC.Jones/ Havlicek )
1964 - 13/27/4 ( S.Jones/ Heinsohn/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ Naulls/ KC. Jones/ Ramsay )
1965 - 16/25/6 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ Heinsohn/ KC.Jones/ Naulls )
1966 - 19/25/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ KC.Jones/ Nelson )
1968 - 14/23/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Howell/ Sanders/ Nelson )
1969 - 11/20/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Howell/ Nelson/ Sanders )

-------------------

Larry Bird

1981 - 22/14/6 ( Parish/ Archibald/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1984 - 27/11/6 ( Parish/ Johnson/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1986 - 26/9/8 ( Mchale/ Johnson/ Ainge/ Parish/ Walton )

-------------------

Tim Duncan

1999* - 23/11/3 ( Robinson )
2003 - 25/15/5 ( Robinson/ Parker )
2005 - 24/12/3 ( Parker/ Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( Parker/ Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( Kawhi/ Parker/ Ginobili )


----------------------

Lebron James

2012* - 30/10/5 ( Wade/ Bosh )
2013 - 26/8/7 ( Wade/ Bosh/ Allen )

----------------------

Magic Johnson

1980 - 18/10/9 ( Kareem/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper )
1982 - 17/11/9 ( Kareem/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1985 - 17/7/15 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1987 - 22/8/12 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper )
1988 - 20/5/13 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Green/ Cooper )

-----------------------

Shaquille Oneal

2000 - 31/15/3 ( Kobe )
2001 - 30/15/3 ( Kobe )
2002 - 28/13/3 ( Kobe )
2006 - 18/10/2 ( Wade )

-----------------------

Wilt Chamberlain

1967 - 22/29/9 ( Greer/ Walker/ Cunningham )
1972 - 15/21/3 ( Goodrich/ West )

-----------------------

Hakeem Olajuwon

1994 - 29/11/4
1995 - 33/10/4 ( Drexler )









i think when you look at all the performances and amount of help. how they rank all time in terms of ring value:


#1 Jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Shaq
#4 Duncan
#5 Hakeem
#6 Magic
#7 Kareem
#8 Wilt
#9 Bird
#10 Lebron
#11 Bill


this is the true top 11 all time if you actually dissect each players playoff runs and how hard it was for them

[dh144498]

Kobe is not top 11 all time.

[ClipperRevival]

Come on Kobe fan. How on Earth can anyone with any level of objectivity rank Kobe #2 given that 3 of his rings came as second fiddle.

[kennethgriffin]

Come on Kobe fan. How on Earth can anyone with any level of objectivity rank Kobe #2 given that 3 of his rings came as second fiddle.

because of his performances and having only 1 other great team mate

while guys like russell had 7-8 legends at a time

5 rings is the most by any player in history with only 1 other guy helping out

[Fudge]

:oldlol:

If there's one thing I appreciate from certain Kobe stans, it's gotta be their trolling.

Bravo, sir. Bravo.

[ClipperRevival]

because of his performances and having only 1 other great team mate

while guys like russell had 7-8 legends at a time

5 rings is the most by any player in history with only 1 other guy helping out

Please. I have been a Laker fan since about 1987. Living in LA my whole life. Kobe won 3 as second fiddle. Then he won 2 as "the man" with a pretty solid team. Gasol was second fiddle. Then Odom was a heck of a 3rd wheel. You also had guys like Ariza, Fisher and Bynum. The 2009 Lakers team won 65 games.

Just try to be objective man.

[IMObjective]

Love it Kenneth. Can't wait till the haters show up. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

Please. I have been a Laker fan since about 1987. Living in LA my whole life. Kobe won 3 as second fiddle. Then he won 2 as "the man" with a pretty solid team. Gasol was second fiddle. Then Odom was a heck of a 3rd wheel. You also had guys like Ariza, Fisher and Bynum. The 2009 Lakers team won 65 games.

Just try to be objective man.


a 2nd fiddle ring with 1 less ppg is still a full ring bud

its about performance. not #1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#2


#1 practically equalled #2

[kennethgriffin]

its quite obvious that russells/magics/birds/kareems rings are bogus compared to the likes of kobe when you factor in help

especially russells. his rings are worth about 10 cents to the dollar

[Papaya Petee]

:roll: :roll:

First of all no, Kobe isn't close.

Second of all, Magics last year #s are wrong

Third of all, WHO GIVES A ****, if its a lockout year. You stupid idiot do you comprehend that you still need to win 16 playoff games in order to win it all, like any other year?

2011
1.) Bulls
2.) Heat
3.) Celtics
4.) Magic
5.) Hawks
6.) Knicks
7.) Sixers
8.) Pacers

2012 (Lockout year)
1.) Bulls
2.) Heat
3.) Pacers
4.) Celtics
5.) Hawks
6.) Magic
7.) Knicks
8.) Sixers

ZOMG, THE STANDINGS ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT BECAUSE ITS A LOCKOUT YEAR.... no you idiot, the same exact 8 teams made the playoffs in the year as the season before, just a few different spots.

2011 West
1.) Spurs
2.) Lakers
3.) Mavs
4.) Thunder
5.)Nuggets
6.) Blazers
7.) Hornets
8.) Grizzlies

2012 (Lockout year)
1.) Spurs
2.) Thunder
3.) Lakers
4.) Grizzlies
5.) Clippers
6.) Nuggets
7.) Mavs
8.) Jazz

Impossible... only difference is that Cp3 left New Orleans, so the Hornets missed the playoffs and the Clippers made it. Also the Blazers completely lost Roy and Aldridge was injured which allowed the Jazz to sneak in.

Of course you Kobe dickriders want to discredit the Lockout seasons, when in reality they made NO difference at all, because you want to discredit Duncan and LeBron (who are both better than Kobe) and to a smaller extent Wade.

[ClipperRevival]

a 2nd fiddle ring with 1 less ppg is still a full ring bud

its about performance. not #1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>#2


#1 practically equalled #2

Kobe was a great player from 2000-2002 but he was not yet ready to lead as "the man" and be the guy who can carry the burden of the offense every night, face double teams and still win. He proved that in the years after his 3 peat when he still didn't play the game the right way (trying to get his).

There are levels to greatness. Kobe was great in 2000-2002 but he was not yet ready to lead. That happened around 2007-2008 on. Same thing happened to MJ. When he first got to the league, he set the league on fire with his individual brilliance. But he didn't know how to play the game the right way to win as a team. That happened later in his career.

I will grant you that Kobe is the greatest "second fiddle" ever in those 2000-2002 runs. But he was still the second fiddle. Shaq was clearly "the man". He was the guy defenses focused on first and foremost. He had to carry the offensive burden which opened everything up for his teammates.

[kennethgriffin]

i mean seriously..

Larry Bird

1981 - 22/14/6 ( Parish/ Archibald/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1984 - 27/11/6 ( Parish/ Johnson/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1986 - 26/9/8 ( Mchale/ Johnson/ Ainge/ Parish/ Walton )


vs

Kobe Bryant

2000 - 21/4/4 ( Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( Shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( Shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( Gasol )
2010 - 29/6/5 ( Gasol )


both with 2 fmvps


who the hell puts bird over kobe again?

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was a great player from 2000-2002 but he was not yet ready to lead as "the man" and be the guy who can carry the burden of the offense every night, face double teams and still win. He proved that in the years after his 3 peat when he still didn't play the game the right way (trying to get his).

There are levels to greatness. Kobe was great in 2000-2002 but he was not yet ready to lead. That happened around 2007-2008 on. Same thing happened to MJ. When he first got to the league, he set the league on fire with his individual brilliance. But he didn't know how to play the game the right way to win as a team. That happened later in his career.

I will grant you that Kobe is the greatest "second fiddle" ever in those 2000-2002 runs. But he was still the second fiddle. Shaq was clearly "the man". He was the guy defenses focused on first and foremost. He had to carry the offensive burden which opened everything up for his teammates.



kobe was "the man" for the first 3 rounds in 2001... when he averaged 33/7/6 against the spurs/portland/sacramento


gtfo. kobe was legit as f*ck
:roll:

[dh144498]

Kobe is a great player, one of the greatest ever, top 12-20 player all time.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is a great player, one of the greatest ever, top 12-20 player all time.


weak era for trolling

[ClipperRevival]

kobe was "the man" for the first 3 rounds in 2001... when he averaged 33/7/6 against the spurs/portland/sacramento


gtfo. kobe was legit as f*ck
:roll:

I know. And he had some dominant games against other WC teams. And that's why I said he was the greatest second fiddle ever, which is saying a lot given the history of the game. But still, there was a pecking order from 2000 - 2002. If you can't see that, that's not my problem.

[kennethgriffin]

:roll: :roll:

First of all no, Kobe isn't close.

Second of all, Magics last year #s are wrong

Third of all, WHO GIVES A ****, if its a lockout year. You stupid idiot do you comprehend that you still need to win 16 playoff games in order to win it all, like any other year?

2011
1.) Bulls
2.) Heat
3.) Celtics
4.) Magic
5.) Hawks
6.) Knicks
7.) Sixers
8.) Pacers

2012 (Lockout year)
1.) Bulls
2.) Heat
3.) Pacers
4.) Celtics
5.) Hawks
6.) Magic
7.) Knicks
8.) Sixers

ZOMG, THE STANDINGS ARE SO MUCH DIFFERENT BECAUSE ITS A LOCKOUT YEAR.... no you idiot, the same exact 8 teams made the playoffs in the year as the season before, just a few different spots.

2011 West
1.) Spurs
2.) Lakers
3.) Mavs
4.) Thunder
5.)Nuggets
6.) Blazers
7.) Hornets
8.) Grizzlies

2012 (Lockout year)
1.) Spurs
2.) Thunder
3.) Lakers
4.) Grizzlies
5.) Clippers
6.) Nuggets
7.) Mavs
8.) Jazz

Impossible... only difference is that Cp3 left New Orleans, so the Hornets missed the playoffs and the Clippers made it. Also the Blazers completely lost Roy and Aldridge was injured which allowed the Jazz to sneak in.

Of course you Kobe dickriders want to discredit the Lockout seasons, when in reality they made NO difference at all, because you want to discredit Duncan and LeBron (who are both better than Kobe) and to a smaller extent Wade.


1. yes he is. this is why i posted evidence. at worst kobes top 3 on ring value

2. fixed

3. lots of people give a f*ck. its a lockout. changes the outcome. injury plagged stars/no training camp/very few practices and no rest favors younger teams with systems in place

[kennethgriffin]

I know. And he had some dominant games against other WC teams. And that's why I said he was the greatest second fiddle ever, which is saying a lot given the history of the game. But still, there was a pecking order from 2000 - 2002. If you can't see that, that's not my problem.


the west was the real finals though. and kobe lead the lakers past their toughest matchups

not shaq

[Hey Yo]

I stopped after


year they won / playoff points

This is the only foot Kobe stans have to stand on. They include playoff points instead of just using the Finals.

They know, we all know, why they do this.

[Hey Yo]

the west was the real finals though. and kobe lead the lakers past their toughest matchups

not shaq
:sleeping

rinse and repeat, same shit different day

[kennethgriffin]

I stopped after



This is the only foot Kobe stans have to stand on. They include playoff points instead of just using the Finals.

They know, we all know, why they do this.


kobe could have averaged 20ppg in all 5 finals and he'd still have more ring value than 9 out of those 11 players based on help



but we've had this discussion before. and kobes finals average is only 1 less ppg than his playoff average for his 5 titles

goes from 27 down to 26

big deal

[ClipperRevival]

the west was the real finals though. and kobe lead the lakers past their toughest matchups

not shaq

And what do you think Shaq was doing? Sleep walking and doing nothing? I can concede that he had some better games over Shaq but that does not mean he was "the man" over Shaq. From 2000 - 2002, Shaq was clearly the man and everyone knows this. Just because Kobe had better games here and there doesn't mean he was the man. It just means he is probably the greatest second fiddle ever in 2001.

[kennethgriffin]

:sleeping

rinse and repeat, same shit different day


do you deny it?

was philly/jersey better than sacramento/sanantonio those years?

even when kobe saved the 2000 wcf in game 7. that was more important vs portland than any game shaq had vs indiana

portland was 3 times as good

[kennethgriffin]

And what do you think Shaq was doing? Sleep walking and doing nothing? I can concede that he had some better games over Shaq but that does not mean he was "the man" over Shaq. From 2000 - 2002, Shaq was clearly the man and everyone knows this. Just because Kobe had better games here and there doesn't mean he was the man. It just means he is probably the greatest second fiddle ever in 2001.

now you know kobe fans argument. what do you think? kobe was sleep walking and doing nothing?

both kobe and shaq took turns dominating series. shaq just picked the easy ones and they happened to come last

[kennethgriffin]

i give shaq full credit for 3 rings and slightly less for his last. i give kobe full credit for 4 of his rings and slightly less for his first


this is logic. when you look at kobe averaging near 30ppg for his last 4 rings. and shaq averaging the same for his first 3. thi:lol s is the logical outcome

why people think its black and white fmvp or nothing is beyond me. maybe cause theyre mad as f*ck

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

OP notes Cooper, Mcadoo (on his last legs) and AC Green (LOL) for Magic/Kareem yet there's no Bynum, Glen Rice, or Odom on Kobe's list.

Sounds legit.

[r15mohd]

Kenneth...please put in Fisher, Horry, etc. if you're going to include one shot wonders like Allen's for Miami in 2013. Also, please be sure to do the same for MJ and Kerr's winner as well.

where are the mods with this agenda driven thread :facepalm

[KG215]

I've come to enjoy Griff's Kobe dicksucking/troll threads. It's always entertaining to see the new mental gymnastics he performs, the cherrypicking he does, and what context he ignores in order to come up with some other arbitrary way to rank Kobe as high as possible in his all-time rankings.

We're not too far removed (summer of 2012 and 2013) from these threads by Griff being ways to convince us Kobe was top 5-6 all-time. Now his threads are using whatever bullshit criteria he deems relevant to argue Kobe is #2 all-time. I'm guessing we're not too far away from a series of "Why Kobe is the GOAT" threads.

[SHAQisGOAT]

This fool gonna list players like Ainge, Willie Nauls, AC Green, total-shell-of-his-former-self Tiny, KC Jones, old Cornbread Maxwell, rookie McHale or old McAdoo... Yet for Kobe only mentions Shaq and Gasol :roll: Nice trolling.

Not saying those dudes weren't solid contributors or something but why neglect players like Odom, Bynum, Fisher, Rice or Horry then? Follow the same criteria, please...

Oh, and btw, out of all those teammates listed (considering their level/game/impact at the time) Shaq is the clear-cut best... How about that?

[OnFire]

i mean seriously..

Larry Bird

1981 - 22/14/6 ( Parish/ Archibald/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1984 - 27/11/6 ( Parish/ Johnson/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1986 - 26/9/8 ( Mchale/ Johnson/ Ainge/ Parish/ Walton )


vs

Kobe Bryant

2000 - 21/4/4 ( Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( Shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( Shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( Gasol )
2010 - 29/6/5 ( Gasol )


both with 2 fmvps


who the hell puts bird over kobe again?

If you really want to compare you should also factor in the star power on the opposition.

For example, the 2001 NBA Finals was vs Iverson and....Dikembe i guess..???

The 1984 NBA Finals was vs Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Rambis

[Hey Yo]

do you deny it?

was philly/jersey better than sacramento/sanantonio those years?

even when kobe saved the 2000 wcf in game 7. that was more important vs portland than any game shaq had vs indiana

portland was 3 times as good
So where was the domination from Kobe against such the so-called weak opponent(s)??

[ClipperRevival]

now you know kobe fans argument. what do you think? kobe was sleep walking and doing nothing?

both kobe and shaq took turns dominating series. shaq just picked the easy ones and they happened to come last

Shaq was the dominant force teams game planned against every game. He had to carry the burden of being the man. Obviously me conceding that Kobe was the greatest 2nd fiddle ever won't satisfy you so i will stop.

[ClipperRevival]

This is like me saying Gasol was the man from 2009 -2010 because he had some better games in the playoffs. But anyone with a brain knows Kobe was the man. He was the guy teams focused on most and had to carry the burden.

[kennethgriffin]

Kenneth...please put in Fisher, Horry, etc. if you're going to include one shot wonders like Allen's for Miami in 2013. Also, please be sure to do the same for MJ and Kerr's winner as well.

where are the mods with this agenda driven thread :facepalm

do you know the difference between a ray allen and a kerr/fisher/horry?


its not their "big shot" or "shots"



its the fact that ray allen is an all time legend sacrificing money and shots to help 3 other f*ggots win another ring you dumb mother f*cking neanderthal

:biggums:


ray on his own bottom feeding franchise in 2013 would average 20ppg

[kennethgriffin]

So where was the domination from Kobe against such the so-called weak opponent(s)??


it wasnt needed. the lakers coasted to victory in the finals. why on earth would they need both kobe and shaq to average 30+ when its a cake walk

that was only necessary vs good teams

shaq went to work in the finals cause he faced todd macculloch

if the east could have actually produced a team that needed kobes extra firepower then maybe he coulda stole a fmvp or 2

but shaq wanted the hardware cause of his ego. and kobe said "im happy with that. i just want the ring.. 26ppg is fine out of me as long as we win"


then shaq started bragging about his hardware and kobe kicked him out of town

[Prometheus]

idk how ppl respond to this by attempting to actually debate. "op is a f@g", "shut the f*ck up", "k but u rong doe"... all appropriate responses. trying to reason with this garbage is just sad.

[r15mohd]

do you know the difference between a ray allen and a kerr/fisher/horry?


its not their "big shot" or "shots"



its the fact that ray allen is an all time legend sacrificing money and shots to help 3 other f*ggots win another ring you dumb mother f*cking neanderthal

:biggums:


ray on his own bottom feeding franchise in 2013 would average 20ppg


:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and you wonder why no one takes you seriously on here. :facepalm

[KG215]

If you really want to compare you should also factor in the star power on the opposition.

For example, the 2001 NBA Finals was vs Iverson and....Dikembe i guess..???

The 1984 NBA Finals was vs Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Rambis
Right, but in order to do this Griff would need to have the ability to look below the surface, and actually include things like context in his arguments. His brain isn't capable of handling such complex cognitive tasks.

[T_L_P]

Ray Allen was a shell of himself in 2013 and 2014, regardless of any "sacrifices" he made. Nobody sane would suggest otherwise.

The double standard for role players is hilarious though (listing AC Green...seriously?)

Odd isn't it? Did you sort of think nobody would notice? Well, technically no one else does because you're so irrelvant most do not care to view your comments or pay you that attention you yearn.

It doesn't even end there.

To him all 'legends' are equal. 03 Parker and 00 Shaq have exactly the same impact. :oldlol:

Also, you forgot to mention 02 Richmond for Kobe, fool.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

(double post)

Ray Allen was a shell of himself in 2013 and 2014, regardless of any "sacrifices" he made. Nobody sane would suggest otherwise.

The double standard for role players is hilarious though (listing AC Green...seriously?)

Odd isn't it? Did you sort of think nobody would notice? Well, technically no one else does because you're so irrelevant they do not care to view your comments or pay you that attention you yearn.

[SHAQisGOAT]

If you really want to compare you should also factor in the star power on the opposition.

For example, the 2001 NBA Finals was vs Iverson and....Dikembe i guess..???

The 1984 NBA Finals was vs Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Rambis

:applause:

Also true. Many people forget about stuff like that though.

[ArbitraryWater]

(double post)

Ray Allen was a shell of himself in 2013 and 2014, regardless of any "sacrifices" he made. Nobody sane would suggest otherwise.

The double standard for role players is hilarious though (listing AC Green...seriously?)

Odd isn't it? Did you sort of think nobody would notice? Well, technically no one else does because you're so irrelevant they do not care to view your comments or pay you that attention you yearn.

Why? Whats this for you had it right the first time :lol

[sammichoffate]

Kenneth rustling some jimmies up in this bitch and he doesn't even know it :oldlol:

[Smoke117]

ray on his own bottom feeding franchise in 2013 would average 20ppg

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-37094-Tom-Cruise-WHAT-gif-Oblivion-I-wDog.gif

[GimmeThat]

Some players, you build a team around it and it settles the court.
Some players you build a court around it and it settles the team.

[SHAQisGOAT]

(double post)

Ray Allen was a shell of himself in 2013 and 2014, regardless of any "sacrifices" he made. Nobody sane would suggest otherwise.

The double standard for role players is hilarious though (listing AC Green...seriously?)

Odd isn't it? Did you sort of think nobody would notice? Well, technically no one else does because you're so irrelevant they do not care to view your comments or pay you that attention you yearn.

Funny because Green also played for the 2000 Lakers... And if he mentioned him before, why not there (given that he also named some other old, past-their-prime players)? Anyways, no point in trying to "understand" a trolling post...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Why? Whats this for you had it right the first time :lol
My computer acts up and posts the same thing twice sometimes. Did do a few ninja edits in there though. :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

If you really want to compare you should also factor in the star power on the opposition.

For example, the 2001 NBA Finals was vs Iverson and....Dikembe i guess..???

The 1984 NBA Finals was vs Kareem, Magic, Worthy, McAdoo, Rambis

except that the real best teams kobe went through were ones like portland who had

rasheed wallace
scottie pippen
steve smith
damon stoudemire
arvydas sabonis
detlef schrempf
brian grant
bonzi wells
jermaine oneal
stacy augman




and the kings with

chris webber
peja stojakovic
doug christie
mike bibby
vlade divac
hedo turkoglu
bobby jackson
gerald wallace



or the 2010 celtics

rajon rondo
rasheed wallace
kevin garnett
ray allen
paul pierce
glen davis
tony allen
michael finley
nate robinson


the finals werent always the real finals.. like ive said before

[Keno]

you forgot phil jackson, the greatest coach of all time, key piece.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Funny because Green also played for the 2000 Lakers... And if he mentioned him before, why not there (given that he also named some other old, past-their-prime players)? Anyways, no point in trying to "understand" a trolling post...
Pretty much, although Green was definitely a better player in the 80s (obviously).

As stated... If Kenneth is gonna be name dropping THOSE guys, he better be doing it for everyone, his lover included.

[kennethgriffin]

you forgot phil jackson, the greatest coach of all time, key piece.


all those guys had great coaches

and kobe had the phil that was lazy and wouldnt call time outs. atleast jordan had the one that would walk up and down the sidelines calling out plays and matchups or things to look out for

[kennethgriffin]

Funny because Green also played for the 2000 Lakers... And if he mentioned him before, why not there (given that he also named some other old, past-their-prime players)? Anyways, no point in trying to "understand" a trolling post...


the title i listed ac green for was a year within him being an nba allstar and he had a huge impact for the title

on the 2000 lakers he sat on the bench the entire playoffs 1 year from retirement

[ArbitraryWater]

the title i listed ac green for was a year within him being an nba allstar and he had a huge impact for the title

on the 2000 lakers he sat on the bench the entire playoffs 1 year from retirement

the difference is minimal, you just pick what you like, even according to your ridiculous flawed logic, 2013 Allen was one year from retirement as well.

[Smoke117]

except that the real best teams kobe went through were ones like portland who had

rasheed wallace
scottie pippen
steve smith
damon stoudemire
arvydas sabonis
detlef schrempf
brian grant
bonzi wells
jermaine oneal
stacy augman


the finals werent the finals. like ive said before

:roll: :roll: :roll: Jermaine O'neal huh? Augmon? The Blazers 3rd string forward? Jermaine played 22 minutes TOTAL vs the Lakers in the WCF. Augmon played 18 minutes.

[OnFire]

Also

2002 NBA Finals vs Jason Kidd and average players
2009 NBA Finals vs Dwight and averages players

[OnFire]

except that the real best teams kobe went through were ones like portland who had

rasheed wallace
scottie pippen
steve smith
damon stoudemire
arvydas sabonis
detlef schrempf
brian grant
bonzi wells
jermaine oneal
stacy augman




and the kings with

chris webber
peja stojakovic
doug christie
mike bibby
vlade divac
hedo turkoglu
bobby jackson
gerald wallace



or the 2010 celtics

rajon rondo
rasheed wallace
kevin garnett
ray allen
paul pierce
glen davis
tony allen
michael finley
nate robinson


the finals werent always the real finals.. like ive said before

The best team Kobe won a title against was the Big 3 Celtics which he had already lost to.

[kennethgriffin]

The best team Kobe won a title against was the Big 3 Celtics which he had already lost to.


kobe faced 6 teams combined better than the 2001 and 2002 finals matchup before even getting there

as for 2009

in the playoffs the wcf matchup denver nuggets had

HOF billups
HOF carmelo
JR Smith
nene
kmart
anderson



that wasnt a tough team to go through? if they win that series theyre probly nba champions

[Keno]

all those guys had great coaches

and kobe had the phil that was lazy and wouldnt call time outs. atleast jordan had the one that would walk up and down the sidelines calling out plays and matchups or things to look out for

spo is far from a great coach, he's lucky to have had lebron to win him 2 rings. meanwhile phil.....

[kennethgriffin]

spo is far from a great coach, he's lucky to have had lebron to win him 2 rings. meanwhile phil.....

spo got 2 hall of fame legends to sacrifice in order to save lebrons legacy. even after lebron cost wade a finals mvp. spo still got that team to play perfect team basketball asside from lestat pad.. got guys like ray allen to only shoot when someone allows him to in order to save nba finals for them

thats a great coach.. most idiots wouldnt know what to do with 3-4 egos

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Very interesting

Looks like Kobe's rings are noteworthy for being won

- with fewer HOF teammates
- with fewer All Star teammates
- facing tougher competition (first round to Finals)
- and more efficient defenses.

Not sure why pointing that out is considered trolling. Facts are facts. :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

Terrible thread; dr

[kennethgriffin]

Terrible thread; dr


how would you know if you didnt read

[He Strong]

This needs standardized to just flat out listing all-stars of those years, because the OP obviously adds good role players as something to count for players not named Kobe, but then gets to ignore great role players on the Lakers.

Example:
OP counts the Celtics as having KC Jones in '63 against Bill Russell, who averaged 7/3/4, but doesn't count Glen Rice in 2000 who averaged 16/4/2 against Kobe.

[ShawkFactory]

how would you know if you didnt read
Cause I haven't read a single reply. I was gonna stop reading the OP once I saw Bird's 86 great players. Then I DID stop and immediately posted what I did when I saw what you listed for Duncan in 03 :roll:

Don't even know what happens after that.

It's getting more and more obvious.

[kennethgriffin]

This needs standardized to just flat out listing all-stars of those years, because the OP obviously adds good role players as something to count for players not named Kobe, but then gets to ignore great role players on the Lakers.

Example:
OP counts the Celtics as having KC Jones in '63 against Bill Russell, who averaged 7/3/4, but doesn't count Glen Rice in 2000 who averaged 16/4/2 against Kobe.


how does a team with 5-6 allstar level players send all 5-6 guys to the allstar game when half of them are severely sacrificing numbers and the league can only send so many guys from 1 team to make it fair

sometimes they send 4. but its extremely rare



for instance... a guy like dennis johnson who is a former finals mvp that lead his own team to a championship was forced to come off the bench in 1986 cause of how insanely stacked boston was... averaging 16/4/6 in the playoffs for their championship

he wasnt an allstar. but in reality on his own team he would have been a 20+ppg player and made it easly

same for the 60s celtics. they had 7 guys at a time. cant send em all to the allstar game

or with the lakers when guys like norm nixon would lead a title team in APG and not make the allstar game. or byron scott lead a title team in scoring and not make the allstar game

same sh*t. its hard to send them all when you have more allstars than you know what to do with

[ISHGoat]

just shut the **** up kennith

[kennethgriffin]

Cause I haven't read a single reply. I was gonna stop reading the OP once I saw Bird's 86 great players. Then I DID stop and immediately posted what I did when I saw what you listed for Duncan in 03 :roll:

Don't even know what happens after that.

It's getting more and more obvious.

Mchale 25/9/3 playoff average, nba allstar that year, nba legend
Johnson 16/4/6 playoff average, allstar a year before, nba legend, former finals mvp
Ainge - 16/4/5/2 playoff average, allstar a year later
Parish - nba allstar that season, 15/9/2blk for the playoffs, HOF legend
Walton - league leader in defensive rating that season* HOF legend




03 duncan didnt have david robinsons rebounding/defense and HOF presence?

parker wasnt the starting PG averaging 15/3/4 in the playoffs? he isnt a HOFr?

[ShawkFactory]

Mchale 25/9/3 playoff average, nba allstar that year, nba legend
Johnson 16/4/6 playoff average, allstar a year before, nba legend, former finals mvp
Ainge - 16/4/5/2 playoff average, allstar a year later
Parish - nba allstar that season, 15/9/2blk for the playoffs, HOF legend
Walton - league leader in defensive rating that season* HOF legend
didn't read

[ISHGoat]

Mchale 25/9/3 playoff average, nba allstar that year, nba legend
Johnson 16/4/6 playoff average, allstar a year before, nba legend, former finals mvp
Ainge - 16/4/5/2 playoff average, allstar a year later
Parish - nba allstar that season, 15/9/2blk for the playoffs, HOF legend
Walton - league leader in defensive rating that season* HOF legend




03 duncan didnt have david robinsons rebounding/defense and HOF presence?

parker didnt lead the team as starting PG averaging 15/3/4 in the playoffs? he isnt a HOFr?

didnt read

kenneth is like one of those euroleague, 3ball, personalities that should be banned. contributes little to the forum, clutters it with the same chit every single day.

[kennethgriffin]

didn't read
Mchale 25/9/3 playoff average, nba allstar that year, nba legend
Johnson 16/4/6 playoff average, allstar a year before, nba legend, former finals mvp
Ainge - 16/4/5/2 playoff average, allstar a year later
Parish - nba allstar that season, 15/9/2blk for the playoffs, HOF legend
Walton - league leader in defensive rating that season* HOF legend

[kamil]

Kobe is not top 11 all time.

Then logically speaking, neither is LeBron*

[kennethgriffin]

the 86 celtics could have won the title without bird

[kennethgriffin]

PG - Dennis Johnson ( 16/4/6 )
SG - Danny ainge ( 16/4/5 )
SF - Scott Wedman ( 19ppg peak, 2 time allstar )
PF - Kevin Mchale ( 25/9/3 )
C - Robert Parish ( 15/9/2blk )

6th man - Bill Walton ( league leader in defensive rating )


this team perhaps still wins the nba finals

even with bird out for the year

[T_L_P]

Mchale 25/9/3 playoff average, nba allstar that year, nba legend
Johnson 16/4/6 playoff average, allstar a year before, nba legend, former finals mvp
Ainge - 16/4/5/2 playoff average, allstar a year later
Parish - nba allstar that season, 15/9/2blk for the playoffs, HOF legend
Walton - league leader in defensive rating that season* HOF legend




03 duncan didnt have david robinsons rebounding/defense and HOF presence?

parker wasnt the starting PG averaging 15/3/4 in the playoffs? he isnt a HOFr?

Lamar Odom in 09 averaged 13/9/2 on much better shooting with literally 1000 times better defense.

Why would 03 Parker get a mention and not Odom? Isn't this about what they did on those specific teams (otherwise according to you 02 Richmond also deserves a mention over 09 Odom), not what they did before or after?

And why don't you separate the level of 'legends'. 00 Shaq averaged more points than 03 Parker and Robinson combined.

[Kblaze8855]

AC Green, KC Jones, and so on count....hes got dudes who put up 7/3 with 40% shooting in 15 minutes a game in the playoffs listed for some of these guys. Another guy put up 6/3 in 13 minutes a game in the playoffs. Dude put up 13 points off the bench...in the entire 7 game NBA finals.

He counts.

Odom and Glen Rice....never even existed.

And this dude seems to genuinely not understand his lack of credibility.....

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Did you seriously list Ray Allen and not Lamar Odom?

[He Strong]

how does a team with 5-6 allstar level players send all 5-6 guys to the allstar game when half of them are severely sacrificing numbers and the league can only send so many guys from 1 team to make it fair

sometimes they send 4. but its extremely rare

...


he wasnt an allstar. but in reality on his own team he would have been a 20+ppg player and made it easly


That still doesn't explain why you omit players like Rice who was actually (not hypothetically like yours) an all-star averaging over 20ppg before he joined the Lakers, sacrificed his scoring to be 3rd string, and still averaged 16ppg. Face it, you are a bitch troll who picks and chooses what fits your agenda.

[He Strong]

Did you seriously list Ray Allen and not Lamar Odom?

Yes, because it didn't fit his agenda.

[Springsteen]

I wonder, if the Lakers won the years you gave Duncan and Lebron asterisks for their rings, would you have put those asterisks on Kobe?

Nah.

[kennethgriffin]

Lamar Odom in 09 averaged 13/9/2 on much better shooting with literally 1000 times better defense.

Why would 03 Parker get a mention and not Odom? Isn't this about what they did on those specific teams (otherwise according to you 02 Richmond also deserves a mention over 09 Odom), not what they did before or after?

And why don't you separate the level of 'legends'. 00 Shaq averaged more points than 03 Parker and Robinson combined.


just going on pure stats is dumb. i go by both their place all time and production

its obvious 2003 david robinson has more impact than lamar odom

one is a sacrificing NBA legend top 20 player all time
the other is a sacrificing crack head that never made an allstar team

[He Strong]

I wonder, if the Lakers won the years you gave Duncan and Lebron asterisks for their rings, would you have put those asterisks on Kobe?

Nah.

Of course not.

[kennethgriffin]

I wonder, if the Lakers won the years you gave Duncan and Lebron asterisks for their rings, would you have put those asterisks on Kobe?

Nah.


no. but other people who didnt show my favoritism all would have.

its obvious i cant expect duncan and lebron fans to realize what a lockout is and how it effects the timelines/outcomes due to their bias

even with logic such as

- no training camp ( costing new teams/coaches/systems )
- major injuries to stars due to lack of proper conditioning/training/practice/rest
- older teams having a disadvantage
- younger teams having a major advantage


without the lockouts the jazz win in 1999 and the bulls win in 2012

[kennethgriffin]

no fan will admit it if their favorite player or team won in a fake season

i'm not denying it because people have agendas. everyone does no matter how much they can try and hide it

but the fact remains there was a major flaw/change/difference to those titles

[kennethgriffin]

if theres a lockout in 2016-17 and kobes there with 2 other allstars winning a title in his last season

i'l say it right now. it wont count the same as a title won during a real season

save this post for future reference

[Kblaze8855]

At least 6 people banned right now did less to justify it than the trolling nonsense in this topic. Really. I see people banned for not posting "honest realistic opinions". At this point you have to just be seeing what it takes with some of this shit.

[Smoke117]

if theres a lockout in 2016-17 and kobes there with 2 other allstars winning a title in his last season

i'l say it right now. it wont count the same as a title won during a real season

save this post for future reference


http://media.giphy.com/media/qvJLmqfuhh2ec/giphy.gif

Why would we possibly need to save this?

[kennethgriffin]

At least 6 people banned right now did less to justify it than the trolling nonsense in this topic. Really. I see people banned for not posting "honest realistic opinions". At this point you have to just be seeing what it takes with some of this shit.

are you talking to me?

[He Strong]

if theres a lockout in 2016-17 and kobes there with 2 other allstars winning a title in his last season

i'l say it right now. it wont count the same as a title won during a real season

save this post for future reference

No sweat off your back saying this, because no way it happens.

[guy]

Very interesting

Looks like Kobe's rings are noteworthy for being won

- with fewer HOF teammates
- with fewer All Star teammates
- facing tougher competition (first round to Finals)
- and more efficient defenses.

Not sure why pointing that out is considered trolling. Facts are facts. :confusedshrug:

And with more FMVP/MVP teammates :oldlol: Fact are facts :oldlol:

[kennethgriffin]

i've lost 2 red bars since i started this topic. obviously must be doing something positive

am i trolling? no. all i did was list titles/numbers/help

then gave a re ranking list based on simply that

thats just my observation and opinion based on facts. its not like i made a topic and said "kobe> youre favorite player HAH"

i actually took the time to get all those stats to make a real point.

[Smoke117]

i've lost 2 red bars since i started this topic. obviously must be doing something positive

am i trolling? no. all i did was list titles/numbers/help

then gave a re ranking list based on simply that

thats just my observation and opinion based on facts. its not like i made a topic and said "kobe> youre favorite player HAH"

i actually took the time to get all those stats to make a real point.

The Kobe stan piss ants stick together...no shit, you don't say?

[ShawkFactory]

i've lost 2 red bars since i started this topic. obviously must be doing something positive

am i trolling? no. all i did was list titles/numbers/help

then gave a re ranking list based on simply that

thats just my observation and opinion based on facts. its not like i made a topic and said "kobe> youre favorite player HAH"

i actually took the time to get all those stats to make a real point.
:lol

[Cleverness]

year they won / playoff points / rebounds / assists / great team mates (*lockout )


Michael Jordan

1991 - 31/6/8 ( Pippen )
1992 - 34/6/6 ( Pippen )
1993 - 35/7/6 ( Pippen )
1996 - 31/5/4 ( Pippen/ Rodman )
1997 - 31/8/5 ( Pippen/ Rodman )
1998 - 32/5/3 ( Pippen/ Rodman )

---------------------

Kobe Bryant

2000 - 21/4/4 ( Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( Shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( Shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( Gasol )
2010 - 29/6/5 ( Gasol )

----------------------

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

1971 - 26/17/2 ( Oscar/ Dandridge )
1980 - 32/12/3 ( Magic/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper )
1982 - 20/8/4 ( Magic/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1985 - 22/8/4 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1987 - 19/7/2 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper )
1988 - 14/5/1 ( Magic/ Worthy/ Scott/ Green/ Cooper )

----------------------

Bill Russell

1957 - 14/24/3 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay )
1959 - 15/28/4 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones )
1960 - 18/26/3 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones )
1961 - 19/30/5 ( Cousy/ Sharman/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders )
1962 - 22/26/5 ( Cousy/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders/ KC.Jones )
1963 - 20/25/5 ( Cousy/ Heinsohn/ Ramsay/ S.Jones/ Sanders/ KC.Jones/ Havlicek )
1964 - 13/27/4 ( S.Jones/ Heinsohn/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ Naulls/ KC. Jones/ Ramsay )
1965 - 16/25/6 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ Heinsohn/ KC.Jones/ Naulls )
1966 - 19/25/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Sanders/ KC.Jones/ Nelson )
1968 - 14/23/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Howell/ Sanders/ Nelson )
1969 - 11/20/5 ( S.Jones/ Havlicek/ Howell/ Nelson/ Sanders )

-------------------

Larry Bird

1981 - 22/14/6 ( Parish/ Archibald/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1984 - 27/11/6 ( Parish/ Johnson/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1986 - 26/9/8 ( Mchale/ Johnson/ Ainge/ Parish/ Walton )

-------------------

Tim Duncan

1999* - 23/11/3 ( Robinson )
2003 - 25/15/5 ( Robinson/ Parker )
2005 - 24/12/3 ( Parker/ Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( Parker/ Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( Kawhi/ Parker/ Ginobili )


----------------------

Lebron James

2012* - 30/10/5 ( Wade/ Bosh )
2013 - 26/8/7 ( Wade/ Bosh/ Allen )

----------------------

Magic Johnson

1980 - 18/10/9 ( Kareem/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper )
1982 - 17/11/9 ( Kareem/ Nixon/ Wilkes/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1985 - 17/7/15 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper/ Mcadoo )
1987 - 22/8/12 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Cooper )
1988 - 20/5/13 ( Kareem/ Worthy/ Scott/ Green/ Cooper )

-----------------------

Shaquille Oneal

2000 - 31/15/3 ( Kobe )
2001 - 30/15/3 ( Kobe )
2002 - 28/13/3 ( Kobe )
2006 - 18/10/2 ( Wade )

-----------------------

Wilt Chamberlain

1967 - 22/29/9 ( Greer/ Walker/ Cunningham )
1972 - 15/21/3 ( Goodrich/ West )

-----------------------

Hakeem Olajuwon

1994 - 29/11/4
1995 - 33/10/4 ( Drexler )









i think when you look at all the performances and amount of help. how they rank all time in terms of ring value:


#1 Jordan
#2 Kobe
#3 Shaq
#4 Duncan
#5 Hakeem
#6 Magic
#7 Kareem
#8 Wilt
#9 Bird
#10 Lebron
#11 Bill


this is the true top 11 all time if you actually dissect each players playoff runs and how hard it was for them


why did you spend so much time typing all that out:facepalm

[el gringos]

because of his performances and having only 1 other great team mate

while guys like russell had 7-8 legends at a time

5 rings is the most by any player in history with only 1 other guy helping out
Sounds like reasons to have Olajuwon up there too. Can't remember did you rank Kobe and Olajuwon right together? I love drexler but he wasn't Portland Clyde when he got to Houston

[Mrofir]

damn i thought this was going to be an interesting thread that required some background research.

Expected to see guys like Horry and D Fish on this list judging by thread title.

Oh well. Hard to argue with a list that includes Danny Ainge but doesn't include Lamar Odom. Or Ron Artest. Or Andrew Bynum*. Definitely an objective and thorough analysis.



*Does anyone remember that Andrew Bynum was a pretty good player? People remember Kobe/Gasol -- let's try Kobe/Gasol/Bynum/Odom/Artest

[He Strong]

Sounds like reasons to have Olajuwon up there too. Can't remember did you rank Kobe and Olajuwon right together? I love drexler but he wasn't Portland Clyde when he got to Houston

He wasn't Portland Clyde, but Houston Clyde gets underrated as well. In the championship season, he averaged 22/6/5 and went 22/9/7 in the Finals. If you ask me, that is pretty badass.