Lebrons finals runs come with an asterisks - SBNation

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/22/8467163/lebron-james-nba-finals-eastern-conference-chart

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wwK0VXzr6OgRpxoM_NyMNKg4jYQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630560/Paths-to-the-Finals.0.png

damn...........the times the east were harder Raisin Bran choked as the favorite in all 3 series
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

so asterisks on the runs (including the overrated 07 run where he got carried by a stacked defense) +2/5
hes still top 30 alltime IMO

[Kvnzhangyay]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/22/8467163/lebron-james-nba-finals-eastern-conference-chart

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wwK0VXzr6OgRpxoM_NyMNKg4jYQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630560/Paths-to-the-Finals.0.png

damn...........the times the east were harder Raisin Bran choked as the favorite in all 3 series
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

so asterisks on the runs (including the overrated 07 run where he got carried by a stacked defense) +2/5
hes still top 30 alltime IMO

Top 10, to be more specific

[game3524]

No shit.:oldlol:

There is a reason why Lebron doesn't even entertain playing in the West.

[Jacks3]

Kobe. :bowdown:

[Hey Yo]

No shit.:oldlol:

There is a reason why Lebron doesn't even entertain playing in the West.
and why rookie Kobe said he would play for the Lakers only.

[MJistheGOAT]

Yes, that

[OnFire]

Did he not still beat the West's best team? Flawed ass logic.

In basketball more than ANY other sport the better team wins so i dont think it matters that much.

[Trollsmasher]

LeBron in the superior West would be playing on a superior Western team

Pointless analysis

[OnFire]

and why rookie Kobe said he would play for the Lakers only.

When Kobe was a rookie the West had 3 losing record teams in the playoffs. He really ran to the West like a bitch when he looked at the rough ass east.

(using your logic)

Kobe ran from the Jordan Bulls
Kobe ran from the Alonzo and Tim Hardaway Heat
Kobe ran from the Ewing, Starks, Houston Knicks
Kobe ran from the Dikembe Hawks
Kobe ran from the Grant Hill (pre injury) Dumars Pistons
Kobe ran from the Penny Magic ..(duh shaq left too lol)
Kobe ran from the Webber, Wallace, Juwan Howard, Rod Strickland Bullets.

Ya'll act like the East has been down for 50 years.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Did he not still beat the West's best team? Flawed ass logic.


Yes he did...................


2/5 times

[MJistheGOAT]

Yes he did...................


2/5 times

Resume would be:

2/2
2 finals/rings (2012, 2013)
3 WCF/WCSF (2007, 2011,2014)

[outbreak]

lebron and kobe are both top 15 but neither are top 10.

[OnFire]

Yes he did...................


2/5 times

And? Kobe's 100% in the Finals?

[game3524]

And? Kobe's 100% in the Finals?

He at least has a winning record. Hell, take away the Shaq years and it is still Kobe 2/3 compare to Lebron 2/5.

[TheMarkMadsen]

What do you know, Lebron has an easy path to the finals every year

[OnFire]

He at least has a winning record. Hell, take away the Shaq years and it is still Kobe 2/3 compare to Lebron 2/5.

Keep making up new criteria.

You must be displaying I hope the dumbest logic that fell off your keyboard.

Also the last LeBron Heat team was 20-10 vs the West, this year the Cavs were 18-12... but don't let facts get in your way, please continue.

[Cold soul]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/22/8467163/lebron-james-nba-finals-eastern-conference-chart

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wwK0VXzr6OgRpxoM_NyMNKg4jYQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630560/Paths-to-the-Finals.0.png

damn...........the times the east were harder Raisin Bran choked as the favorite in all 3 series
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

so asterisks on the runs (including the overrated 07 run where he got carried by a stacked defense) +2/5
hes still top 30 alltime IMO

Nice graph this shows quite a bit of info.

[Wavves]

I honestly do not know the difference between losing in the finals compared to losing in the 2nd or 3rd round in the playoffs.

2/5 don't mean shit.

[OnFire]

I honestly do not know the difference between losing in the finals compared to losing in the 2nd or 3rd round in the playoffs.

2/5 don't mean shit.

You must be 10 or so if you dont know that in the NBA Finals Appearances have always been talked about as an accomplishment. At least until idiotards needed to find some way to slander LeBron.

People's lack of knowing what the **** they are talking about shines through when they hate on LeBron. Like people saying he's not clutch yet if you look at the actual stats he has been one of if not the most clutch.

I'm kind of upset that I have to defend LeBron when I only root against him, but the drooler level is high in here.

[Wavves]

You must be 10 or so if you dont know that in the NBA Finals Appearances have always been talked about as an accomplishment. At least until idiotards needed to find some way to slander LeBron.

People's lack of knowing what the **** they are talking about shines through when they hate on LeBron. Like people saying he's not clutch yet if you look at the actual stats he has been one of if not the most clutch.

I'm kind of upset that I have to defend LeBron when I only root against him, but the drooler level is high in here.
Think you took what I said out of context.

Getting to the finals is always an accomplishment, even in the east. But it's not Lebron's fault he was drafted into the East.

Losing in the1st, 2nd or 3rd round is just as bad as losing in the finals, and in my eyes definitely worse than losing in the finals if you are the better team during that series in the 2nd, 3rd or 4th. The 2/5 talk is dumb. It's not a bright spot in Lebron's resume, but it's definitely not the deciding factor into why somebody may thing he isn't as good as the other all time greats.

[tpols]

Obvi.

[game3524]

Keep making up new criteria.

You must be displaying I hope the dumbest logic that fell off your keyboard.

Also the last LeBron Heat team was 20-10 vs the West, this year the Cavs were 18-12... but don't let facts get in your way, please continue.

What new criteria? The guy has played a crap conference for the majority of his career that is just a fact.

[OnFire]

What new criteria? The guy has played a crap conference for the majority of his career that is just a fact.

And at the beginning of Kobe's career the East was better so what?

[OnFire]

And the east wouldnt be so bad without your loser ass franchise who don't even try to win... damn embarrassment to the sport.

[Solefade]

LeBron in the superior West would be playing on a superior Western team

Pointless analysis


this..and since when did average margin of points opp scored become the measure of how hard it is to win in the east? lol...each game and series has a different identity

[oh the horror]

Did he not still beat the West's best team? Flawed ass logic.

In basketball more than ANY other sport the better team wins so i dont think it matters that much.




Imagine two cars have to drive to a race. One car has a bumpier, treacherous ride that takes longer.


The other has a straight road, no potholes. Easier.



Which fu*king car would you rather have at the end?



This isn't rocket science.

[oh the horror]

And at the beginning of Kobe's career the East was better so what?


Straw man.


Nice deflection.

[ShawkFactory]

Imagine two cars have to drive to a race. One car has a bumpier, treacherous ride that takes longer.


The other has a straight road, no potholes. Easier.



Which fu*king car would you rather have at the end?



This isn't rocket science.
Depends on what kinda car is better in the first place :cheers:

[Lebron23]

Just like Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers. Jesus Christ look at the record of their opponents in the 1987 NBA Playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

Denver Nuggets - 37-45
Seattle Supersonics - 39-43
Golden State Warriors - 42-40

[Magic 32]

Just like Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers. Jesus Christ look at the record of their opponents in the 1987 NBA Playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

Denver Nuggets - 37-45
Seattle Supersonics - 39-43
Golden State Warriors - 42-40

5-9 against the East.

And do you remember anything Magic did against those WC teams?

His legacy was definded against the best teams he faced.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Just like Magic Johnson and the Showtime Lakers. Jesus Christ look at the record of their opponents in the 1987 NBA Playoffs.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/1987.html

Denver Nuggets - 37-45
Seattle Supersonics - 39-43
Golden State Warriors - 42-40
Yup he 80s west was just as bad as the 00s east

[24-Inch_Chrome]

The balance of power changes between conferences as time passes, the game advances too, happens in all sports. It shouldn't result in an asterisk for a ring won at a certain time, that's an absolutely asinine argument. Agendas don't get any more obvious than that.

Wilt/Bill's rings don't count because weak era, asterisk. Magic/Kareem (during his Lakers tenure) played shit teams to get to the finals, asterisk. Kobe needed Hall of Fame caliber big men to accomplish anything, asterisk. Hakeem needed Jordan out of the league to win rings, asterisk. Jordan won rings in a diluted league, asterisk. **** off with that shit, if you really want to you can asterisk just about any accomplishment.

The only thing that should get an asterisk are records like Bonds' home run total, where the player involved actually cheated to accomplish the feat. Apart from that it's not applicable. Just a bunch of butthurt fans whining about professional athletes. :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

LBJ and his team have a very good record against the Western Conference Teams.

If Lebron starts his career in the west. He's going to have much better teammates because the West have the best front office, and good coaches.

[Lebron23]

5-9 against the East.

And do you remember anything Magic did against those WC teams?

His legacy was definded against the best teams he faced.


Lebron's career is not yet over. He likely surpass Kobe in numbers of Finals MVP. Kobe's career is finish.

[Magic 32]

If Lebron starts his career in the west. He's going to have much better teammates because the West have the best front office, and good coaches.

Wade and Bosh, Kyrie and Love.

Poor Lebron.

[Magic 32]

Lebron's career is not yet over. He likely surpass Kobe in numbers of Finals MVP. Kobe's career is finish.

http://img.pandawhale.com/74489-jim-carrey-gif-what-the-hell-a-Ly3J.gif

[Lebron23]

Wade and Bosh, Kyrie and Love.

Poor Lebron.


Prime Shaq and Phil Jackson, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest and Phil Jackson. Those were some solid teams, but Kobe still shot 41 FG% in 7 NBA Finals appearance.

[Magic 32]

Prime Shaq and Phil Jackson, Gasol, Odom, Bynum...

Stopped reading.

Don't you ever get tired of this garbage?

[Lebron23]

Stopped reading.

Don't you ever get tired of this garbage?


He was pretty good in the regular season in the 2009-10 NBA Season. He still averaged 9 ppg, and 7 rpg in the playoffs.

[aj1987]

lebron and kobe are both top 15 but neither are top 10.
http://i.imgur.com/btTgfgB.gif
http://i.imgur.com/f6JPmbA.jpg























http://i.imgur.com/Weox6q2.gif

[Magic 32]

He was pretty good in the regular season in the 2009-10 NBA Season.

Ok. Until his injury.



He still averaged 9 ppg, and 7 rpg in the playoffs.

:confusedshrug:

[IllegalD]

He was pretty good in the regular season in the 2009-10 NBA Season. He still averaged 9 ppg, and 7 rpg in the playoffs.

LeBron already has 3 finals losses to Kobes 2.

In some people's eyes that means he will NEVER be better than Kobe, even if he wins 5 rings.

Eat sh*t, LeBron Stan.

You're the most embarrassing poster on this whole board.

[aj1987]

LeBron already has 3 finals losses to Kobes 2.

In some people's eyes that means he will NEVER be better than Kobe, even if he wins 5 rings.

Eat sh*t, LeBron Stan.

You're the most embarrassing poster on this whole board.
According to your logic, LeBron is higher than Magic, Wilt, and Kareem?

[r15mohd]

Asterisk ridden on Lebron means asterisk ridden on the showtime lakers...both faced weaker competition in their conference. All is set and final.

Thanks SBNation!

Magic*
Kareem*
Lebron*

:applause: :applause: :applause:

[poido123]

According to your logic, LeBron is higher than Magic, Wilt, and Kareem?



Lebron under attack!!!!


Must...defend...him....:hammerhead:

[IllegalD]

According to your logic, LeBron is higher than Magic, Wilt, and Kareem?

He's better than Wilt, yes.

Wilt: 2 Championships, 5 finals losses

LeBron: 2 Championships, 3 finals losses.

He's not better than Magic or Kareem because they both have 5 and 6 championships respectively.

Magic: 5 Championships, 4 finals losses

Kareem: 6 championships, 4 finals losses.

If LeBron somehow miraculously manages to win 3 more chips, without losing another finals, then yes, you could make the argument that he's higher than Magic. Same logic applies if he wins 4 more chips without losing another (could be considered higher than Kareem).

How difficult is this to understand? :facepalm

Weak job trying to counter my original point. :applause:

[aj1987]

Lebron under attack!!!!


Must...defend...him....:hammerhead:
aj1987 is posting. Must follow him.

:oldlol: You are one sad individual, pedo.


He's better than Wilt, yes.

Wilt: 2 Championships, 5 finals losses

LeBron: 2 Championships, 3 finals losses.

He's not better than Magic or Kareem because they both have 5 and 6 championships respectively.

Magic: 5 Championships, 4 finals losses

Kareem: 6 championships, 4 finals losses.

If LeBron somehow miraculously manages to win 3 more chips, without losing another finals, then yes, you could make the argument that he's higher than Magic. Same logic applies if he wins 4 more chips without losing another (could be considered higher than Kareem).

How difficult is this to understand? :facepalm

Weak job trying to counter my original point. :applause:
So, it's better to not make the Finals, than lose in the Finals?

[Doranku]

Prime Shaq and Phil Jackson, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Artest and Phil Jackson. Those were some solid teams, but Kobe still shot 41 FG% in 7 NBA Finals appearance.

LeBron has played on TWO different teams that have had the second best player in the conference along with a 20/10 all-star big man... and this nikka over here talkin' about Odom, the corpse of Ron Artest, and Andrew f*cking Bynum. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[r15mohd]

Wade and Bosh, Kyrie and Love.

Poor Lebron.


Wade gets a partial mention because he was good for 1yr...so far, same with Kyrie. Bosh is no where near your inclination of a all-star, and neither is Love this year.

Give Lebron someone like Gasol or Shaq, Pippen, Kareem or even this years Kyrie through this tenure and it's a whole new scenario. But that would involve looking into things with context, which I have zero faith you can accomplish :facepalm

[IllegalD]

aj1987 is posting. Must follow him.

:oldlol: You are one sad individual, pedo.


So, it's better to not make the Finals, than lose in the Finals?

No dumbass.

I'll make it REAL simple for you.

If player A wins 5 finals but looses 4, and player B wins 5 finals and looses 2 (assuming all other things, stats, production, all-star seasons, etc are even), then player B definitely has an argument over player A, since player A took more finals appearances/losses to get to the same amount of chips as player B.

Just stop... :facepalm

[r15mohd]

LeBron has played on TWO different teams that have had the second best player in the conference along with a 20/10 all-star big man... and this nikka over here talkin' about Odom, the corpse of Ron Artest, and Andrew f*cking Bynum. :roll: :roll: :roll:


Three 7 footers: one who is the best passing big and instant double-double player, another a defensive anchor, and the last is as agile as a SF in his play. Put that next to The best SG in the league and it pretty fcking dominant.

Context, it goes a very long way!

Then you want to indicate "the corpse" of a player, when Wade and Bosh, and now Love, was exactly that throughout stints in the season and in majority of the playoffs. But let me guess, it doesn't apply to Lebron, only Kobe?

[aj1987]

No dumbass.

I'll make it REAL simple for you.

If player A wins 5 finals but looses 4, and player B wins 5 finals and looses 2 (assuming all other things, stats, production, all-star seasons, etc are even), then player B definitely has an argument over player A, since player A took more finals appearances/losses to get to the same amount of chips as player B.

Just stop... :facepalm
How do you not see the idiocy in your own logic?

2 players (players of the same caliber) have been in the league for 10 years. Player A goes to the Finals 5 times and wins twice. Player B goes to the Finals 7 times and wins twice. If you rank player A over B, you're a ****ing retard. You're basically awarding a player for getting knocked out earlier in the PO's. How is making the Finals worse than losing in the conference rounds?


Kobetard logic... :facepalm

[IllegalD]

Three 7 footers: one who is the best passing big and instant double-double player, another a defensive anchor, and the last is as agile as a SF in his play. Put that next to The best SG in the league and it pretty fcking dominant.

Context, it goes a very long way!

Then you want to indicate "the corpse" of a player, when Wade and Bosh, and now Love, was exactly that throughout stints in the season and in majority of the playoffs. But let me guess, it doesn't apply to Lebron, only Kobe?

If you mention Bynum in your argument your argument is no longer valid and you've been exposed as a Jordan/LeBron d*cksucking/Kobe hating troll. :facepalm

[Bernkastel]

As long as it confirms Larry being better than Magic.

[Doranku]

Three 7 footers: one who is the best passing big and instant double-double player, another a defensive anchor, and the last is as agile as a SF in his play. Put that next to The best SG in the league and it pretty fcking dominant.

Context, it goes a very long way!

Then you want to indicate "the corpse" of a player, when Wade and Bosh, and now Love, was exactly that throughout stints in the season and in majority of the playoffs. But let me guess, it doesn't apply to Lebron, only Kobe?

This nikka comparing washed up Ron Artest to prime Wade/Bosh/Love. :roll: :roll: :roll: Wooooooooooo boy, only on ISH fellas.

[IllegalD]

How do you not see the idiocy in your own logic?

2 players (players of the same caliber) have been in the league for 10 years. Player A goes to the Finals 5 times and wins twice. Player B goes to the Finals 7 times and wins twice. If you rank player A over B, you're a ****ing retard. You're basically awarding a player for getting knocked out earlier in the PO's. How is making the Finals worse than losing in the conference rounds?


Kobetard logic... :facepalm

Yeah, ok....

Sounds like LeBrontard logic.

Since you know he's probably going to make it to multiple finals going through the sh*t Leastern Conference, only to lose in the finals against superior Western Conference teams then the criteria magically "changes". So now just MAKING it to the Finals is a huge accomplishment?

Sounds like someone isn't so confident about LeBron winning any more finals, so you have no choice but to overvalue "finals appearances" (aka Finals LOSSES).

So according to YOUR logic, then Kobe has an argument over Jordan... right? I mean... he DID make 7 finals (one more than Jordan)... right?

Funny how JUST MAKING THE FINALS wasn't seen as some huge accomplishment when Kobe was "just making finals". But when LeBron starts to lose Finals at a record rate all of a sudden the criteria changes.

:lol :applause:

[G0ATbe]

No surprise it's Godbe that had the toughest path, by far. GOAT gonna GOAT:applause: .

5 > 4.5 > 1.5

[r15mohd]

If you mention Bynum in your argument your argument is no longer valid and you've been exposed as a Jordan/LeBron d*cksucking/Kobe hating troll. :facepalm

Why does every Kobe stan like to underrate Bynum so much...three 7ft players in your front court, but it's excusable bcuz Bynums stats don't represent anything. Who has links to these Laker games so these Kobe stans can see the impact such a front court made against their opponents? Smh

No need to deflect from the truth...like I said, context goes a long way

[IllegalD]

Why does every Kobe stan like to underrate Bynum so much...three 7ft players in your front court, but it's excusable bcuz Bynums stats don't represent anything. Who has links to these Laker games so these Kobe stans can see the impact such a front court made against their opponents? Smh

No need to deflect from the truth...like I said, context goes a long way

Funny...

I've been asking myself the same thing for YEARS. Every time some insecure Jordan/Bron d*cksucker brings up "THE MIGHTY" Bynum in their arguments of how "stacked" Kobe's help was. Yet no one is ever able to provide even the LEAST bit of tangible evidence to show Bynum's supposed impact/dominance. Not ONE boxscore, not ONE statline, not ONE youtube clip of Bynum highlights.... :confusedshrug:

[Doranku]

Ay yo, check this out.

Bynum 2010 playoffs: 9/7/1 on 54%
Ron Artest 2010 playoffs: 11/4/2 on 40%
Mario Chalmers 2012 playoffs: 11/4/4 on 44%

:roll: This dude is trying to compare Artest and Bynum to guys like Wade, Bosh, and Love when they produced less than Mario f*cking Chalmers while Kobe was winning them rings. Can't make this stuff up, folks.

[aj1987]

Yeah, ok....

Sounds like LeBrontard logic.

Since you know he's probably going to make it to multiple finals going through the sh*t Leastern Conference, only to lose in the finals against superior Western Conference teams then the criteria magically "changes". So now just MAKING it to the Finals is a huge accomplishment?

Sounds like someone isn't so confident about LeBron winning any more finals, so you have no choice but to overvalue "finals appearances" (aka Finals LOSSES).

So according to YOUR logic, then Kobe has an argument over Jordan... right? I mean... he DID make 7 finals (one more than Jordan)... right?

Funny how JUST MAKING THE FINALS wasn't seen as some huge accomplishment when Kobe was "just making finals". But when LeBron starts to lose Finals at a record rate all of a sudden the criteria changes.

:lol :applause:
How ****ing stupid are you, dude?

MJ - 6 Rings, 6 FMVP's, 5 MVP's.
Kobe - 5 Rings, 2 FMVP's, 1 MVP.

Literally the only argument Kobe has over MJ is that he made the Finals 1 time more than MJ. Literally everything else (including stats) is in MJ's favor.

I didn't say LeBron is higher ranked than Kobe. Since you're a ****ing moron, you just assumed it.

Kobeturds... :facepalm

[r15mohd]

This nikka comparing washed up Ron Artest to prime Wade/Bosh/Love. :roll: :roll: :roll: Wooooooooooo boy, only on ISH fellas.

If you indicate a player being a corpse of himself, it means he wasn't who he used to be. Same EXACT thing fits Wade and Bosh.

It's not a comparison in who they are to one another...simple understanding of the English language can help you with this.

Plus, don't forget your miscalc on Bosh, a 20/10 all-star? More fathom, you can't truly believe this...as this was his 1st option raptor-days stats.

Wade the 2nd best player in the conference? PG, Derrick Rose, Melo in their respective years on the East...you don't know wtf you're talking about :facepalm

[r15mohd]

Ay yo, check this out.

Bynum 2010 playoffs: 9/7/1 on 54%
Ron Artest 2010 playoffs: 11/4/2 on 40%
Mario Chalmers 2012 playoffs: 11/4/4 on 44%

:roll: This dude is trying to compare Artest and Bynum to guys like Wade, Bosh, and Love when they produced less than Mario f*cking Chalmers while Kobe was winning them rings. Can't make this stuff up, folks.

Check my post above...and like I said, Bynums stats don't tell his presence on the Laker. It's your use to validate his "ineffectiveness"


Here are some excerpts from LakerNation.com - enjoy!


"Also...why would anyone bash him right now? He is playing the role he needs to play. The Lakers have been looking for a defensive anchor for years. Shaq was a defensive presence, but hardly the anchor, as he did show signs of weakness and, for the most part, a lower defensive IQ than many true anchors. Drew is taking smarter shots, less of them, TRYING to pass out of the post, and he's crashing the boards and challenging shots."

"There's no denying that Drew is arguably the best offensive center in the NBA, in regards to post moves and skillset (Yao is done, or else Drew is second). Howard is the most efficient and, technically, the better scorer, but Bynum has far better footwork and go-to moves, and a better hook."

"if bynum stays healthy for the rest of this season and all of next season then keeping bynum was the absolute correct deal. bynum is a far more impactful player than melo at full health. hes a rebounding force, defensive force, and the best offensive center in the NBA. but everything with bynum comes with a disclaimer. can he stay healthy"

link from posts in 2011: http://lakernation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/48102-bynums-defensive-presence/page-5


Like I said, it's only Kobe stans that try to underrate him when their agenda is to prop Kobe only. Have a good day, and learn to understand some context

[IllegalD]

Check my post above...and like I said, Bynums stats don't tell his presence on the Laker. It's your use to validate his "ineffectiveness"


Here are some excerpts from LakerNation.com - enjoy!


Like I said, it's only Kobe stans that try to underrate him when their agenda is to prop Kobe only. Have a good day, and learn to understand some context

Why from 2011....?:confusedshrug:

Kobe didn't win the chip that year...

HMMMM.... kinda seems like some selective "evidence" to make your biased point.

[IllegalD]

How ****ing stupid are you, dude?

MJ - 6 Rings, 6 FMVP's, 5 MVP's.
Kobe - 5 Rings, 2 FMVP's, 1 MVP.

Literally the only argument Kobe has over MJ is that he made the Finals 1 time more than MJ. Literally everything else (including stats) is in MJ's favor.

I didn't say LeBron is higher ranked than Kobe. Since you're a ****ing moron, you just assumed it.

Kobeturds... :facepalm


Riiiiiiight..... 'cause you jumping out of your chair to whiteknight LeBron and comment on my post about how some people would deem LeBron's 3 finals losses damming to him in the KB vs LeBron argument doesn't tell me everything I need to know... :lol

[aj1987]

Riiiiiiight..... 'cause you jumping out of your chair to whiteknight LeBron and comment on my post about how some people would deem LeBron's 3 finals losses damming to him in the KB vs LeBron argument doesn't tell me everything I need to know... :lol
Confirmed. You're just an idiot Kobe nut slurping troll.

[r15mohd]

Why from 2011....?:confusedshrug:

Kobe didn't win the chip that year...

HMMMM.... kinda seems like some selective "evidence" to make your biased point.

U would say selective and not even click the link smh

It includes everything. so based on his previous years...which includes the title runs and losing in the Finals. Like I said, context, and a little understanding of. English helps. Try it sometime :rolleyes:

[IllegalD]

U would say selective and not even click the link smh

It includes everything. so based on his previous years...which includes the title runs and losing in the Finals. Like I said, context, and a little understanding of. English helps. Try it sometime :rolleyes:

So in an era where every single play in modern basketball (especially post 2000s) is on youtube, websites like basketball reference, the best evidence of Bynums "dominance/impact" during the finals/chip runs you can come up with is some msg board posts?! :roll:

[r15mohd]

So in an era where every single play in modern basketball (especially post 2000s) is on youtube, websites like basketball reference, the best evidence of Bynums "dominance/impact" during the finals/chip runs you can come up with is some msg board posts?! :roll:

Stop deflecting...these are laker fans opinions on from a Lakers forums, not Kobe stans. Now wanna resort to "not enough evidence." Just stop already and take the L. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :facepalm

I'll entertain u some:

http://youtu.be/i_EwYwX1WxQ

[r15mohd]

http://youtu.be/_UyPtt74TFM

Another one from the finals to show how huge an impact Gasol and Bynum makes in a front court, not even taking into account Odom


http://youtu.be/ANYmMzDH2BY

Inside presence, 7ft front court means no penetration is easily done.

[Derka]

These asterisk arguments are about the stupidest things ever.

[fiddy]

These asterisk arguments are about the stupidest things ever.
:facepalm

[IllegalD]

http://youtu.be/_UyPtt74TFM

Another one from the finals to show how huge an impact Gasol and Bynum makes in a front court, not even taking into account Odom


http://youtu.be/ANYmMzDH2BY

Inside presence, 7ft front court means no penetration is easily done.

LOL.

NOBODY SAID that Bynum didn't play AT ALL during those playoffs.

I mean REALLY?! The best you can do is is a 52 second clip that shows 2 dunks against the Magic. One individual block play against the jazz. And a "mix" that includes more plays from 2011 than they do from the actual finals from 08 to 10. :lol

Dude, just stop... :facepalm

People's fascination with going to such extreme to discredit Kobe is just... :facepalm

Bunch of obsessed weirdos. :wtf:

[Lebron23]

Lebron living rent free inside IllegalD's head.

[pauk]

Its only because of those Eastern 1st round teams, many who wouldnt even make the playoffs in the West, but to get to the Finals you will have to go through ECSF/2nd round and ECF where it has been as tough and/or tougher teams to beat than in the West during those playoff runs....

Lebron with Cavs/Heat in the West during those playoff runs would have only somewhat tougher 1st round matchups, but none of which he would have lost to unfortunately...... and he would have gone to all those Finals except the one in 2007.... which would be now instead "2 of 4 in Finals" and if he couldnt get to those other Finals in the West it would now be instead "2 of 3 or even 2 of 2" in Finals....

Basically, Lebron in the West during those playoffs runs would have the same accolades but at a more efficient rate... because i dont think they would have lost those 2 championship runs, they would have beaten the OKC/Spurs in the WCF and then have an even easier time against whoever came out of East in the Finals, where he would have an easier time getting his stats upon aswell.... He would have been 2 of 2 or 2 of 3 or 2 of 4 in Finals....

[r15mohd]

LOL.

NOBODY SAID that Bynum didn't play AT ALL during those playoffs.

I mean REALLY?! The best you can do is is a 52 second clip that shows 2 dunks against the Magic. One individual block play against the jazz. And a "mix" that includes more plays from 2011 than they do from the actual finals from 08 to 10. :lol

Dude, just stop... :facepalm

People's fascination with going to such extreme to discredit Kobe is just... :facepalm

Bunch of obsessed weirdos. :wtf:

point is proven...take the L and leave the thread already. you wanted evidence and you got it, no one cares to see the whole series to have exactly what's proven here in snips.

[Ne 1]

Why does every Kobe stan like to underrate Bynum so much...three 7ft players in your front court, but it's excusable bcuz Bynums stats don't represent anything. Who has links to these Laker games so these Kobe stans can see the impact such a front court made against their opponents? Smh

No need to deflect from the truth...like I said, context goes a long way

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 SG on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade)

The Lakers front-court is usually just overrated by idiotic Kobe detractors trying to diminish him. The "dominant" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in a stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

and that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season: 34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade in 2009 and 2010. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

[r15mohd]

Kobe's range is what made the Lakers length especially successful. Otherwise teams could just clog the paint.

Honesty there were probably 8-10 teams in the league with front-courts that would have been contenders with Kobe, while there was only 1 SG on Kobe's level in 2009 and 2010 (Dwayne Wade)

The Lakers front-court is usually just overrated by idiotic Kobe detractors trying to diminish him. The "dominant" front-court and the Lakers didn't even finish top 5 in OREB%, DREB%, or rebounding differential. I especially like how they always bring up Bynum. I can understand Gasol/Odom, who were both key for the Lakers during the 3 consecutive Finals runs, but including Bynum? :oldlol:

Bynum-
2008 Regular season: Only played 35 games. Lakers won 57 games and finished with the #1 seed in a stacked Western Conference.
2008 Playoffs: Didn't play. Lakers still made the Finals without him.

2009 Regular season: Only played 50 games.
2009 Playoffs: Averaged 6/3. Lakers still win championship

2010 Playoffs: Averaged 9/7. Lakers win championship.

There were more teams that could pose front-courts on the Lakers level than guards that were on Kobe's level.

These front-courts would have been contenders with a Kobe Bryant...
Hawks: Horford/Pachulia/Josh Smith/Kobe
Magic: Dwight/Gortat/Rashard/Kobe
Jazz: Okur/Jefferson/Millsap/Kobe
Boston: Garnett/Perkins/Wallace/Kobe
Portland: Pryzvvilla/Camby/Aldridge/Kobe
Nuggets: Nene/Martin/Andersen
Mavs: Nowitzki/Marion/Chandler/Haywood/Kobe
Bulls: Noah/Boozer/Deng/Kobe

and that's just off the type of my head...

Now keep in mind Kobe averaged 30/6/6 in the playoffs during the Lakers 3 straight Finals runs.

2010 Championship run, Odom/Gasol/Bynum combined: 36 PPG/24 RPG/4 APG

Hawks: Horford/Pazchila/Josh Smith season: 34 PPG/23 RPG/6 APG

Dallas: Dirk/Haywood/Dampier: 39 PPG/22 RPG/4 APG

Orlando:Howard/Rashard/Gortat: 36 PPG/21 RPG/4 APG

Bulls: Boozer/Noah/Deng: 41 PPG/29 RPG/7 APG

That's at least 5 teams that can replace LA's front-court and still expect a ring. The Kobe Bryant's of the world are ridiculously hard to find. No SG could have replaced Kobe except perhaps Wade in 2009 and 2010. That goes without saying Wade's skill set isn't suited for the triangle as well as Kobe's. Not saying he wouldn't be good in it, just not as good as Kobe. Wade doesn't have the range, nor is he as good off the ball.

all this, and outside of the Celtics front court with Garnett/Perkins/Pierce (their entire team was a defensive presence really), the Lakers outmatches everyone including the DPOY Howard, and his Magic, in which we saw first handedly.

to add Kobe, the 2nd best SG, to a team isn't telling me how the team will fair any better/different. it's pretty much a staple with any top 10-15 player that if you add them to like scenarios, results are parallel for the most part. what exactly are you trying to prove here? :confusedshrug:

bottomline is the Lakers had the most dominant front court since probably the 80s Celtics with Parish/McHale/Bird. Phil even said the Gasol/Bynum/Odom front court is one of the best he's come across...a guy who's been around since the 70s.

[Derka]

:facepalm
Stupidest things ever.

[dh144498]

look at the quality of conf opponents Kobe faced.

:biggums:

:bowdown:

[tpols]

all this, and outside of the Celtics front court with Garnett/Perkins/Pierce (their entire team was a defensive presence really), the Lakers outmatches everyone including the DPOY Howard, and his Magic, in which we saw first handedly.

to add Kobe, the 2nd best SG, to a team isn't telling me how the team will fair any better/different. it's pretty much a staple with any top 10-15 player that if you add them to like scenarios, results are parallel for the most part. what exactly are you trying to prove here? :confusedshrug:

bottomline is the Lakers had the most dominant front court since probably the 80s Celtics with Parish/McHale/Bird. Phil even said the Gasol/Bynum/Odom front court is one of the best he's come across...a guy who's been around since the 70s.

You are.. out of your mind.

Duncan/Drob
Kg/perk
dirk/tyson
webber/divaC
hakeem/Sampson
shaq/Horry
ewing/oakley

Are all comfortably ahead. And there's many more that could be considered equal.. 00s pistons Pacers hell even golden state and memphis this year.

[sd3035]

Everything about Bran comes with an asterisk, including his hairline

[dh144498]

all this, and outside of the Celtics front court with Garnett/Perkins/Pierce (their entire team was a defensive presence really), the Lakers outmatches everyone including the DPOY Howard, and his Magic, in which we saw first handedly.

to add Kobe, the 2nd best SG, to a team isn't telling me how the team will fair any better/different. it's pretty much a staple with any top 10-15 player that if you add them to like scenarios, results are parallel for the most part. what exactly are you trying to prove here? :confusedshrug:

bottomline is the Lakers had the most dominant front court since probably the 80s Celtics with Parish/McHale/Bird. Phil even said the Gasol/Bynum/Odom front court is one of the best he's come across...a guy who's been around since the 70s.


link?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

These asterisk arguments are about the stupidest things ever.

:applause:

[Optimus Prime]

Facts disprove the media hype.

Kobe > Duncan >>>>>>>>>>>> LeBeta

Numbers don't lie. Free trips to the Finals in a historically terrible conference and still 2/5.

:kobe:

[Hey Yo]

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/22/8467163/lebron-james-nba-finals-eastern-conference-chart

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/wwK0VXzr6OgRpxoM_NyMNKg4jYQ=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630560/Paths-to-the-Finals.0.png

damn...........the times the east were harder Raisin Bran choked as the favorite in all 3 series
https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

so asterisks on the runs (including the overrated 07 run where he got carried by a stacked defense) +2/5
hes still top 30 alltime IMO
If the chart is starting from 2000, then why are they using Kobe instead of Shaq for comparison?

Shaq led the team in scoring and rebounds in each of Kobe's first 3 rings so it makes no sense to use Kobe to compare to LeBron and Duncan.

If Kobe's going to used, then the chart maker should have started at 2008.

[Ne 1]

If the chart is starting from 2000, then why are they using Kobe instead of Shaq for comparison?

Shaq led the team in scoring and rebounds in each of Kobe's first 3 rings
The scoring difference was minuscule for the '01 and '02 rings and of course he led the team in rebounds, he's a 7'1" center. Kobe led the Lakers in assists ffor the first 3 rings. He was the primary facilitator/play maker on those championship teams, defensive stopper, 2nd scoring option, and the go to guy in the clutch. He had to set up the offense, advance the ball, read the defense and consistently make big plays at critical times and also usually defend the other teams' best swingman. Now I don't think his '00 rings is a meaningful as his other 4, but he stepped up in some huge moments which is why he isn't as replaceable as some like to think.

[OnFire]

Riiiiiiight..... 'cause you jumping out of your chair to whiteknight LeBron and comment on my post about how some people would deem LeBron's 3 finals losses damming to him in the KB vs LeBron argument doesn't tell me everything I need to know... :lol

Sometimes even if you don't like LeBron, the posts are just sooooooo stupid you can't let them go... i'm assuming thats what happened here.

[OnFire]

He's better than Wilt, yes.

Wilt: 2 Championships, 5 finals losses

LeBron: 2 Championships, 3 finals losses.

He's not better than Magic or Kareem because they both have 5 and 6 championships respectively.

Magic: 5 Championships, 4 finals losses

Kareem: 6 championships, 4 finals losses.

If LeBron somehow miraculously manages to win 3 more chips, without losing another finals, then yes, you could make the argument that he's higher than Magic. Same logic applies if he wins 4 more chips without losing another (could be considered higher than Kareem).

How difficult is this to understand? :facepalm

Weak job trying to counter my original point. :applause:

This is the dumbest logic ever that somehow getting to 7 finals < getting to 5.

[red1]

Its only because of those Eastern 1st round teams, many who wouldnt even make the playoffs in the West, but to get to the Finals you will have to go through ECSF/2nd round and ECF where it has been as tough and/or tougher teams to beat than in the West during those playoff runs....

Lebron with Cavs/Heat in the West during those playoff runs would have only somewhat tougher 1st round matchups, but none of which he would have lost to unfortunately...... and he would have gone to all those Finals except the one in 2007.... which would be now instead "2 of 4 in Finals" and if he couldnt get to those other Finals in the West it would now be instead "2 of 3 or even 2 of 2" in Finals....

Basically, Lebron in the West during those playoffs runs would have the same accolades but at a more efficient rate... because i dont think they would have lost those 2 championship runs, they would have beaten the OKC/Spurs in the WCF and then have an even easier time against whoever came out of East in the Finals, where he would have an easier time getting his stats upon aswell.... He would have been 2 of 2 or 2 of 3 or 2 of 4 in Finals....
If he played in the west he would have been 4/4 or 4/5 or some shit like that. Heck if someone like kobe could go 5/7 then 7/7 would be realistic for bron.

[OnFire]

LeBron already has 3 finals losses to Kobes 2.

In some people's eyes that means he will NEVER be better than Kobe, even if he wins 5 rings.

Eat sh*t, LeBron Stan.

You're the most embarrassing poster on this whole board.

So getting to the finals and failing is worse than failing earlier? How does that make sense in your brain?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Outside of 2011, LeBron won the finals he was supposed to win and lost the finals he was supposed to lose. There wasn't a team in the league that was going beat the Spurs last year, and there wasn't a team in the league that was going to beat the Spurs in 2007. Everyone knew that the Spurs were going to win those two.

Were the Lakers not favored to win in the 5 finals they made and won with Kobe on the team? The Celtics were favored in 2008 but the Lakers lost while favored against the 2004 Pistons.

That's both players winning the years they were expected to win, each minus one, and losing the year(s) they were expected to lose. Winning in the finals > making the finals > not making the finals. No shame in losing a series you weren't expected to win.

[IllegalD]

Outside of 2011, LeBron won the finals he was supposed to win and lost the finals he was supposed to lose. There wasn't a team in the league that was going beat the Spurs last year, and there wasn't a team in the league that was going to beat the Spurs in 2007. Everyone knew that the Spurs were going to win those two.

Were the Lakers not favored to win in the 5 finals they made and won with Kobe on the team? The Celtics were favored in 2008 but the Lakers lost while favored against the 2004 Pistons.

That's both players winning the years they were expected to win, each minus one, and losing the year(s) they were expected to lose. Winning in the finals > making the finals > not making the finals. No shame in losing a series you weren't expected to win.

Appales and oranges. When LeBron lost to the Mavs in the 2011 Finals, him, Wade and Bosh were ALL in their primes and the team suffered no significant injuries to key players.

The times Kobe has lost in the finals there were injuries to key players (Malone in 2004, Bynum and Ariza in 2008).

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You just spelled "apples" wrong. :roll:

The Celtics were favored in 2008, I specifically said that and absolved Kobe of responsibility for that loss.

If you're seriously going to say that Karl Malone getting injured was the deciding factor in the 2004 series I'm going to laugh. He was 40.

[IllegalD]

You just spelled "apples" wrong. :roll:

The Celtics were favored in 2008, I specifically said that and absolved Kobe of responsibility for that loss.

If you're seriously going to say that Karl Malone getting injured was the deciding factor in the 2004 series I'm going to laugh. He was 40.

:confusedshrug: still the third best/most important player on that squad after Shaq and Kobe.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

:confusedshrug: still the third best/most important player on that squad after Shaq and Kobe.

:whatever:

So we're going to ignore that was horrible in game 1 when fully healthy? He was actually better during the game where he was injured. Blaming a Karl Malone injury for that series loss is ridiculous. Detroit shut down that whole team outside of Shaq, give them the credit that they're due.

[IllegalD]

:whatever:

So we're going to ignore that was horrible in game 1 when fully healthy? He was actually better during the game where he was injured. Blaming a Karl Malone injury for that series loss is ridiculous. Detroit shut down that whole team outside of Shaq, give them the credit that they're due.

I'm talking about the injury he suffered back in December, dumb*ss. Lakers were 18-3. Yes, Malone got re-injured in Game 2 of the finals but it was clear that he wasn't the same player for the rest of the season/playoffs he was before that December injury.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I'm talking about the injury he suffered back in December, dumb*ss. Lakers were 18-3. Yes, Malone got re-injured in Game 2 of the finals but it was clear that he wasn't the same player for the rest of the season/playoffs he was before that December injury.

So you're seriously going to say that a 40-year old Karl Malone being injured was the difference between the Lakers winning the series and losing in 5 games? Final answer?

[SexSymbol]

Outside of 2011, LeBron won the finals he was supposed to win and lost the finals he was supposed to lose. There wasn't a team in the league that was going beat the Spurs last year, and there wasn't a team in the league that was going to beat the Spurs in 2007. Everyone knew that the Spurs were going to win those two.

Were the Lakers not favored to win in the 5 finals they made and won with Kobe on the team? The Celtics were favored in 2008 but the Lakers lost while favored against the 2004 Pistons.

That's both players winning the years they were expected to win, each minus one, and losing the year(s) they were expected to lose. Winning in the finals > making the finals > not making the finals. No shame in losing a series you weren't expected to win.
Wait what? Were Spurs the favorites pre 07 season with bookmakers? I doubt it.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Wait what? Were Spurs the favorites pre 07 season with bookmakers? I doubt it.

Going into the finals...duh.

[ShawkFactory]

Wait what? Were Spurs the favorites pre 07 season with bookmakers? I doubt it.
No but by the time the playoffs came around...

[ArbitraryWater]

Wait what? Were Spurs the favorites pre 07 season with bookmakers? I doubt it.

lol

[SexSymbol]

Well you put the sentence in the way that it seemed like you're implying that they were the clear favorites going in to the season "the wasn't a team in the league that was going to beat the Spurs in 07" is the direct quote

[Showtime80']

Western conference winning% against the East from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career) 47%

Eastern conference winning% against the West from 2003 to 2015 (LeBron's career) 42%

Next! Never let facts get in the way of debates

[3ball]

Western conference winning% against the East from 1980 to 1991 (Magic's career) 47%

Eastern conference winning% against the West from 2003 to 2015 (LeBron's career) 42%

Next! Never let facts get in the way of debates
what does this mean?

[3ball]

.
Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 59.8% TS.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 54.9% TS.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 64.6% TS.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 59.8% TS.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 44.9% FG)


This easily proves that Lebron's 2007 run is vastly overrated..

[Smoke117]

.
Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007


Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.


1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 59.8% TS.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 54.9% TS.. 42.5% FG)

2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 64.6% TS.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 42.3% FG)

Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 59.8% TS.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 53.7% TS.. 44.9% FG)


This easily proves that Lebron's 2007 run is vastly overrated..

This clearly needs a thread of it's own.

[DDensity]

Did he not still beat the West's best team? Flawed ass logic.

In basketball more than ANY other sport the better team wins so i dont think it matters that much.

It's also about match ups more than any other sport. If you're going up against a field of really good teams, your chances of being "upset" by one who matches up well with you is much higher than if you're going against completely garbage competition.

[oarabbus]

Lebron Finals Wins*

*East

[3ball]

This clearly needs a thread of it's own.
Well, it's funny, because at the time, the NBA's couldn't even beat Euroleague.

They had just lost 7 times on the biggest stage (world stage) to Euroleague talent in international play.. That's how inferior their skill and brand of basketball was at that time..

It's the weakest era the NBA ever had - the ONLY one that couldn't beat Euroleague (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=373182).. :confusedshrug: