In regards to the Kobe-Duncan debate

[SouBeachTalents]

Is this extremely basic breakdown an accurate depiction of how they compared during their careers?

'98-'05, Duncan was better
'06-'13, Kobe was better

Would anyone disagree with the above in terms of either 8 year period?

[Shep]

I would definitely disagree. Bryant was better than Duncan in 2000, 2001, and from 2008 - 2012 inclusive, all other years Duncan was better.

[He Strong]

Is this extremely basic breakdown an accurate depiction of how they compared during their careers?

'98-'05, Duncan was better
'06-'13, Kobe was better

Would anyone disagree with the above in terms of either 8 year period?

I think by 2013 Duncan was better again. Kobe put up better stats, but Duncan's D and not being a liability to his team made him better. Otherwise, seems accurate to me.

[He Strong]

I would definitely disagree. Bryant was better than Duncan in 2000, 2001, and from 2008 - 2012 inclusive, all other years Duncan was better.

In no way was Kobe better in 2000. 2001 is arguable, but I still have Duncan.

[Shep]

In no way was Kobe better in 2000. 2001 is arguable, but I still have Duncan.
actually he was. it was close, but Bryant was infact better

[ShawkFactory]

I would definitely disagree. Bryant was better than Duncan in 2000, 2001, and from 2008 - 2012 inclusive, all other years Duncan was better.
:kobe:

[He Strong]

actually he was. it was close, but Bryant was infact better

Based on what? A good playoff series while Duncan was out with injury? Duncan was clearly better that year and just happened to not be able to play in the playoffs.

[Shep]

Based on what? A good playoff series?
lol no, based on being the best perimeter defender in the league, most clutch player in the league, second best player on an all-time great team etc. Bryant played his role to perfection - this was before his head got too big and he wanted to shoot every possession.

[ShawkFactory]

lol no, based on being the best perimeter defender in the league, most clutch player in the league, second best player on an all-time great team etc. Bryant played his role to perfection - this was before his head got too big and he wanted to shoot every possession.
:roll:

McHale and Pippen > Duncan

[Shep]

:roll:

McHale and Pippen > Duncan
:roll: McHale was never better than '00 Duncan

Pippen was better than '00 Duncan on a number of occasions.

[ShawkFactory]

:roll: McHale was never better than '00 Duncan

Pippen was better than '00 Duncan on a number of occasions.
I think you kinda missed the point.

It's like interacting with a German Shepherd. Smart, but not as smart as a human being.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

It's like interacting with a German Shepherd. Smart, but not as smart as a human being.

:lol

[Shep]

I think you kinda missed the point.

It's like interacting with a German Shepherd. Smart, but not as smart as a human being.
Actually you had a pathetic "point" and I destroyed it. Why did you highlight one of the aspects I mentioned and then bring up 2 players who didn't fit into the other categories? Feeble post by an obvious mental midget.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

I would consider Duncan over Kobe in 2012 & 2013 but other that you're right. Also Duncan has been better since.

[Smoke117]

My deep, involved thoughts on this debate: Tim Duncan >>>>>>>> Kobe Bryant.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Is this extremely basic breakdown an accurate depiction of how they compared during their careers?

'98-'05, Duncan was better
'06-'13, Kobe was better

Would anyone disagree with the above in terms of either 8 year period?

I would say Kobe was better in 01

[BlakFrankWhite]

right to some extent

but Duncan's been better in 2012,13,14 as well

[BlakFrankWhite]

I would say Kobe was better in 01


yeah...Duncan had a vicous ACL injury in 2000...which kept him from his best for a year or two

[SouBeachTalents]

I would say Kobe was better in 01

I should have clarified, I'm not saying in each 8 year period one player was better than the other every season, I'd also say Kobe was better in '01 than Duncan. I just meant in the overall 8 year period

[TheMarkMadsen]

I should have clarified, I'm not saying in each 8 year period one player was better than the other every season, I'd also say Kobe was better in '01 than Duncan. I just meant in the overall 8 year period

I understand, and I'd mostly agree with your OP

I'd just note 01,, and I know Duncan was the MVP in 02 and was better but it should be noted that Kobe in 02 led his team in scoring for every game besides game 2 in the 02 series against the Spurs which the Lakers won.. buts its not like Duncan didn't play well but he wasn't very efficient for his position

[He Strong]

lol no, based on being the best perimeter defender in the league, most clutch player in the league, second best player on an all-time great team etc. Bryant played his role to perfection - this was before his head got too big and he wanted to shoot every possession.

2nd best player on his team makes him better than Duncan who was the best player on his team (which was good enough to be #1 option on the championship team the year before)? Most clutch based on what? Best perimeter defender despite being 2nd team defense (Duncan was 1st team btw). So, essentially you saying he was better was based on very subjective criteria, some of which obviously is motivated by bias.

Meanwhile:
Duncan: 23.2ppg, 12.4rpg, 3.2asts, 0.9stls, 2.2blks, 49%fg, 76.1%ft

Kobe: 22.5ppg, 6.3rpg, 4.9asts, 1.6stls, 0.9blks, 46.8%fg, 82.1%ft

[TheMarkMadsen]

2nd best player on his team makes him better than Duncan who was the best player on his team (which was good enough to be #1 option on the championship team the year before)? Most clutch based on what? Best perimeter defender despite being 2nd team defense (Duncan was 1st team btw). So, essentially you saying he was better was based on very subjective criteria, some of which obviously is motivated by bias.

Meanwhile:
Duncan: 23.2ppg, 12.4rpg, 3.2asts, 0.9stls, 2.2blks, 49%fg, 76.1%ft

Kobe: 22.5ppg, 6.3rpg, 4.9asts, 1.6stls, 0.9blks, 46.8%fg, 82.1%ft

Most clutch based on Kobe being the leading 4th quarter scorer in the playoffs in 01 and 02..

and what stats are those?

01 WCF

Kobe: 33/7/7/2/1 on 51%

Duncan: 23/12/4/1/4 on 47%

[Shep]

2nd best player on his team makes him better than Duncan who was the best player on his team
2nd best player on a 67 win and championship team not just any team. Yes Duncan was the best player on his team, but they won 14 games less, and lost in the first round of the playoffs (in which Duncan contributed zero due to not playing).

which was good enough to be #1 option on the championship team the year before)
Who cares what happened the year before? We are talking about what happened in 2000, not what happened in 1999.

Most clutch based on what?
Based on my eyes.

Best perimeter defender despite being 2nd team defense (Duncan was 1st team btw)
:roll: at this loser and his putting any weight in all defense selections.

So, essentially you saying he was better was based on very subjective criteria, some of which obviously is motivated by bias
It isn't subjective, it is facts. If you watched games you would understand but....

Meanwhile:
Duncan: 23.2ppg, 12.4rpg, 3.2asts, 0.9stls, 2.2blks, 49%fg, 76.1%ft

Kobe: 22.5ppg, 6.3rpg, 4.9asts, 1.6stls, 0.9blks, 46.8%fg, 82.1%ft
.........if that's all what you have to say I guess you didn't watch/weren't born yet.

[davehos]

You young pups just haven't lived long enough to know that in 2003 Tim Duncan owned everyone in the NBA ... even Shaq.

Why compare a guard vs. a forward/center? If Shaq has enough respect for Duncan to consider him an equal that's good enough for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC8NapbDkes

[iamgine]

Kobe has never been better than Duncan. Maybe Kobe performed better/has better number in some games or in some situations but Duncan has always been the superior player, even now.

[Timmy D for MVP]

Kobe has never been better than Duncan. Maybe Kobe performed better/has better number in some games or in some situations but Duncan has always been the superior player, even now.

I would agree with this. Save for maybe one or two seasons when injury was an issue I think Duncan has always been the more valuable player. In the great classic who would you draft scenario I don't see any good argument for why you wouldn't take Duncan ahead of Kobe.

[toxicxr6]

:cheers:
I would agree with this. Save for maybe one or two seasons when injury was an issue I think Duncan has always been the more valuable player. In the great classic who would you draft scenario I don't see any good argument for why you wouldn't take Duncan ahead of Kobe.
:cheers:
Tiny rep

[SexSymbol]

Kobe's been better in 00 and 01. And he was definitely better in 12-13, he was phenomenal actually, had like a +15 while he was on the court in the first half of the season, being the only serviceable player for the lakers in the 1st half and then when some of the teammates woke up, he began playing as a pass-first player and at the end of the season he dragged the lakers kicking and screaming into the playoffs. Duncan was great, for his age, but he didn't mean as much to his team as Kobe did, probably not even half of that.

[ShawkFactory]

Actually you had a pathetic "point" and I destroyed it. Why did you highlight one of the aspects I mentioned and then bring up 2 players who didn't fit into the other categories? Feeble post by an obvious mental midget.
:lol

You highlighted Kobe being the second best player on an all-time great team as a reason why he was better than Duncan in 2000. Nothing else really needs to be said, and nothing else in your post needs to be acknowledged.

Sure, he played his role to perfection. Duncan's role wasn't to be clearly the second best player on a team, but to dominate games as the leader :confusedshrug:

And no, Pippen wasn't better than 2000 Duncan on a number of occasions. Absolutely laughable.

[Optimus Prime]

Kobe > Duncan, but it's close.

Both >>>>> LeBeta and it's not even close nor will it ever be.

:kobe:

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe > Duncan, but it's close.

Both >>>>> LeBeta and it's not even close nor will it ever be.

:kobe:

Are you here to contribute or to be the ISH clown?

[swagga]

I would agree with this. Save for maybe one or two seasons when injury was an issue I think Duncan has always been the more valuable player. In the great classic who would you draft scenario I don't see any good argument for why you wouldn't take Duncan ahead of Kobe.

1. kobe dunks better and has better footwork, did you see his 360 double pump hop step with a over and under 3pt shot? nerds are mad kobe got many fans in basketball savvy countries like china and middle east.
2. who needs ball movement when kobe is so efficient with his 45 FG% avg and stellar playmaking? did you see them alleyoops off the rim to shaq/bynum/gasol/dwight?
3. kobes leadership is unrivaled, everybody wants to play with him, except losers like shaq/gasol/dwight who did nothing in their career except kobe. Phil even wrote a book about playing with kobe.
4. kobe ppg > duncan ppg nuff said.

kobe goat.

[Mr Feeny]

1. kobe dunks better and has better footwork, did you see his 360 double pump hop step with a over and under 3pt shot? nerds are mad kobe got many fans in basketball savvy countries like china and middle east.
2. who needs ball movement when kobe is so efficient with his 45 FG% avg and stellar playmaking? did you see them alleyoops off the rim to shaq/bynum/gasol/dwight?
3. kobes leadership is unrivaled, everybody wants to play with him, except losers like shaq/gasol/dwight who did nothing in their career except kobe. Phil even wrote a book about playing with kobe.
4. kobe ppg > duncan ppg nuff said.

kobe goat.

What in the......I don't even:biggums:

[HOoopCityJones]

Get outta here alt Feeny.

[HurricaneKid]

1. kobe dunks better and has better footwork, did you see his 360 double pump hop step with a over and under 3pt shot? nerds are mad kobe got many fans in basketball savvy countries like china and middle east.
2. who needs ball movement when kobe is so efficient with his 45 FG% avg and stellar playmaking? did you see them alleyoops off the rim to shaq/bynum/gasol/dwight?
3. kobes leadership is unrivaled, everybody wants to play with him, except losers like shaq/gasol/dwight who did nothing in their career except kobe. Phil even wrote a book about playing with kobe.
4. kobe ppg > duncan ppg nuff said.

kobe goat.

Well done sir.

I especially like the part about the alley oops off the rim.

[swagga]

What in the......I don't even:biggums:

he also had exceptional PR and locker room presence. To this day his charitable acts are remembered in Colorado, where he donated a lot of money to a young girl in need. It was all over the news and on sports illustrated. Because his wife was a bit jealous Kobe gave her the GOAT ring. Nothing but the best from the GOAT :applause:

[Ne 1]

Is this extremely basic breakdown an accurate depiction of how they compared during their careers?

'98-'05, Duncan was better
'06-'13, Kobe was better

Would anyone disagree with the above in terms of either 8 year period?

1998- Tim Duncan
1999- Tim Duncan
2000- Tim Duncan
2001- Toss up (I'd give the edge to Kobe after the playoffs.)
2002- Toss up
2003- Tim Duncan (Phenomenal year from Kobe though, the best season of his career to that point, but I give the advantage to Duncan after the playoffs)
2004- Tim Duncan
2005- Tim Duncan
2006- Kobe Bryant
2007- Kobe Bryant (Kobe was the best player in the game this year IMO, not as clearly as he was in '06 since I don't think he was quite as good, though he was close. Duncan does have a case in hindsight, but I'm sticking with what I thought back then.)
2008- Kobe Bryant
2009- Kobe Bryant
2010- Kobe Bryant
2011- Kobe Bryant
2012- Kobe Bryant
2013- Kobe Bryant

[Shep]

You highlighted Kobe being the second best player on an all-time great team as a reason why he was better than Duncan in 2000. Nothing else really needs to be said, and nothing else in your post needs to be acknowledged.
Being the second best player on an all-time great team only to peak Shaquille O'Neal as the best player on that team is a great accomplishment. If nothing needed to be said you should've said nothing at all, because you are making yourself look more pitiful by the post.

Sure, he played his role to perfection. Duncan's role wasn't to be clearly the second best player on a team, but to dominate games as the leader
Duncan would be clearly the second best player on that Laker team to peak Shaq. Duncan's apparent role to dominate games as the leader only led his team to the fifth best record in the conference and no contributions in the playoffs in which the Spurs lost in the first round.

And no, Pippen wasn't better than 2000 Duncan on a number of occasions. Absolutely laughable.
:roll:

Pippen was better from '91 to '94 inclusive and '96 to '98 inclusive actually. So yes a number of occasions - 7 to be exact.

[34-24 Footwork]

You know Kobe is good as fock when people try to discredit him by comparing his shooting percentage to dominant centers like a Shaq/Duncan. Lol

[T_L_P]

Kobe was better in 01, Duncan was better in 07.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan 98-07
Kobe 08-12
Duncan 13-15

Broadly... Kobe might have been better in 01. Duncan might have been better in 12.

Not really close anymore. Duncan had a higher peak, better longevity, better teammate, better leader, more durable, and has better accolades as well.

Duncan is on a different tier. He's a top 5 type guy all time. Kobe is fringe top 10.


Both great, but Duncan clearly greater.

[Cold soul]

Kobe was better in 01, Duncan was better in 07.

I give Kobe edge in 07 he was best player in NBA that season. This comparison is still close if you go by year to year throughout both their careers. Duncan was better player most years early 2000's Kobe better towards the end of the decade and past 2006-2013.

[dubeta]

Duncan was better 1997-2000

Kobe was better 2001

Duncan was better from 2002-2005

Kobe was better 2006

Duncan was better 2007

Kobe was better 2008 -2012

Duncan was better 2013-2015





However LeBron has been better than both since 2005

[bdreason]

Not even Kobe stans would take Kobe over Duncan as a franchise player. I would argue that Duncan had more impact on the game than Kobe for the entirety of their respective careers.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Duncan 98-07
Kobe 08-12
Duncan 13-15

Broadly... Kobe might have been better in 01. Duncan might have been better in 12.

Not really close anymore. Duncan had a higher peak, better longevity, better teammate, better leader, more durable, and has better accolades as well.

Duncan is on a different tier. He's a top 5 type guy all time. Kobe is fringe top 10.


Both great, but Duncan clearly greater.

:applause:

[ShawkFactory]

Being the second best player on an all-time great team only to peak Shaquille O'Neal as the best player on that team is a great accomplishment. If nothing needed to be said you should've said nothing at all, because you are making yourself look more pitiful by the post.

Duncan would be clearly the second best player on that Laker team to peak Shaq. Duncan's apparent role to dominate games as the leader only led his team to the fifth best record in the conference and no contributions in the playoffs in which the Spurs lost in the first round.

:roll:

Pippen was better from '91 to '94 inclusive and '96 to '98 inclusive actually. So yes a number of occasions - 7 to be exact.
I never said 2000 Duncan was better than peak Shaq or even peak Duncan. That wasn't in dispute. Using the fact that Kobe was second best as to why he was better than Duncan in 2000 makes no sense. That's literally it. Stop twisting my argument.

Duncan didn't contribute in the 2000 playoffs...because he didn't play. His team lost 3-1 to the lower-seeded team in his absence.

You literally haven't backed up a single argument of yours with anything tangible. Please explain why Pippen was better. Other than because you said so. If you ask me, replacing Pippen with Duncan...the Bulls are better.

Duncan is a top 7-8 player of all time, and he was in his prime in 2000. 2000 Kobe and Pippen at his best were not better. :confusedshrug:

[G0ATbe]

Debate? :kobe:

Nobody outside of Duncan/LeBald trolls on NBA forums think it's debatable. Kobe>>>>>>>>>> by miles.

[Shep]

I never said 2000 Duncan was better than peak Shaq or even peak Duncan. That wasn't in dispute. Using the fact that Kobe was second best as to why he was better than Duncan in 2000 makes no sense. That's literally it. Stop twisting my argument.
Nobody is twisting anything. It makes perfect sense, unless you think winning games of basketball doesn't mean anything.

Duncan didn't contribute in the 2000 playoffs...because he didn't play. His team lost 3-1 to the lower-seeded team in his absence.
So he could not build on his regular season due to missing every game and as a result of his team missing its best player they lost. Bryant built on his regular season due to how he performed in the playoffs.

You literally haven't backed up a single argument of yours with anything tangible. Please explain why Pippen was better. Other than because you said so. If you ask me, replacing Pippen with Duncan...the Bulls are better.
I back up all my statements with facts, and I will not take any responsibility for those who cannot seem to see what is perfectly clear to me. Lol at explaining why Pippen was better when you fail to see what is glaringly obvious. What exactly did Duncan do in the 2000 regular season that outweighed Pippen's contributions to playoff runs and championship teams? :hammerhead:

Duncan is a top 7-8 player of all time, and he was in his prime in 2000. 2000 Kobe and Pippen at his best were not better.
Actually Duncan is a top 4 player all time and 2000 was nowhere near one of his best years in the league.

[ShawkFactory]

Nobody is twisting anything. It makes perfect sense, unless you think winning games of basketball doesn't mean anything.

So he could not build on his regular season due to missing every game and as a result of his team missing its best player they lost. Bryant built on his regular season due to how he performed in the playoffs.

I back up all my statements with facts, and I will not take any responsibility for those who cannot seem to see what is perfectly clear to me. Lol at explaining why Pippen was better when you fail to see what is glaringly obvious. What exactly did Duncan do in the 2000 regular season that outweighed Pippen's contributions to playoff runs and championship teams? :hammerhead:

Actually Duncan is a top 4 player all time and 2000 was nowhere near one of his best years in the league.
What facts? Contributing on a championship team doesn't automatically make you a better player than someone else. If that's your end all be all then I won't continue with this back-and-forth.

It doesn't make sense. The numbers, the MVP votes, etc. say that Duncan was the better player in 2000.

And I don't know why you're making it seem as though I'm the stupid one when, looking through this thread, literally no one agrees with you.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

There isn't a debate. Duncan > Kobe.

[Shep]

What facts?
Every word of my posts

Contributing on a championship team doesn't automatically make you a better player than someone else.
Never said it was (which is why I don't rank Bryant higher than Garnett or Webber for 2000), but in this particular case contributing, and contributing to the level Bryant contributed, to an all-time level team plays a part in determining overall end of season rankings.

It doesn't make sense. The numbers, the MVP votes, etc. say that Duncan was the better player in 2000.
Numbers and MVP votes don't tell much at all.

And I don't know why you're making it seem as though I'm the stupid one when, looking through this thread, literally no one agrees with you.
:cry:

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe was better than duncan in 2000 by default the same way duncan is better than kobe in 2005


Kobe had a historically great 2001 run to the title. With or without the fmvp he went 15-1 averaging 29/7/6


Kobe was arguably better in 2003 or atleast tied

Obviously better from 2006 to 2013

[ShawkFactory]

Every word of my posts

Never said it was (which is why I don't rank Bryant higher than Garnett or Webber for 2000), but in this particular case contributing, and contributing to the level Bryant contributed, to an all-time level team plays a part in determining overall end of season rankings.

Numbers and MVP votes don't tell much at all.

:cry:
Burden of proof is on you. You're the one making the outlandish claim, and you've done nothing to convince me that Kobe > Duncan in 2000.

Contributing as the #2 on a championship team being amazingly impressive and overriding what Duncan did? Not a fact, your opinion.

Scottie being better in every championship run? Again, not even close to a fact.

Freak injury making you a worse player than someone who didn't suffer one? Ummm...

Duncan has ALWAYS upped his game in the playoffs and 2000 would have been no different. The injury is the only thing that can be used...But he was still the better player.

I'm giving YOU facts.

[toxicxr6]

Kobe was better than duncan in 2000 by default the same way duncan is better than kobe in 2005


Kobe had a historically great 2001 run to the title. With or without the fmvp he went 15-1 averaging 29/7/6


Kobe was arguably better in 2003 or atleast tied

Obviously better from 2006 to 2013


Your such a retard
No version of kobe gets remotely close to 2003 duncan.. Not even remotely.. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team lol.. What a joke you are



Anyhow it's set in stone now duncan is 3-5 places ahead of kobe on the goat list now.. If you want to try and prop up your boy start the debate with people like lebron and bird... Duncan is too far ahead for your opinion to have any merit now

[ShawkFactory]

Kobe was better than duncan in 2000 by default the same way duncan is better than kobe in 2005


Kobe had a historically great 2001 run to the title. With or without the fmvp he went 15-1 averaging 29/7/6


Kobe was arguably better in 2003 or atleast tied

Obviously better from 2006 to 2013
So you think without the FMVP on his team he goes 15-1?

[swagga]

Kobe was better than duncan in 2000 by default the same way duncan is better than kobe in 2005


Kobe had a historically great 2001 run to the title. With or without the fmvp he went 15-1 averaging 29/7/6


Kobe was arguably better in 2003 or atleast tied

Obviously better from 2006 to 2013

the year duncan rang with the corpse of drob and rookie manu (basically duncan+role players) while kobe coudn't do it with shaq?
the year where duncan cucked the lakers 4-2 in the series averaging 29/12?
the same year kobe shot 150% more times than shaq in that series, while chucking a stellar 43 FG% ( shaq was dominating as always, 56 FG%)?
the same year kobe had a nervous breakdown 2 weeks after duncan got his ring and started to randomly rape white girls?

cmon son :lol

[HurricaneKid]

LOL.

There is no debate. If there is a debate in your mind you are doing something massively wrong.

[ThickassGlasses]

Kobe stans are still by the far the most annoying and delusional posters (besides Euroleague and 3ball of course) but Kobe gets criminally underrated all of a sudden.


And yes, in general the OP seems about right as far as the two overall 8 year periods. However, Duncan looks like he has a couple more years of productivity and I can only hope we get that from Kobe.

[SuperPippen]

I think I'd rate both Duncan and Kobe higher than they would be rated on average.


IMO Duncan's clearly a top 5 all time GOAT. And Kobe is top 10. I actually believe Kobe to be a greater player than Magic.

[Wiltside]

Debate? :kobe:

Nobody outside of Duncan/LeBald trolls on NBA forums think it's debatable. Kobe>>>>>>>>>> by miles.

Says the obvious Kobe stan/troll.

[Wiltside]

Yes Duncan was the best player on his team, but they won 14 games less, and lost in the first round of the playoffs (in which Duncan contributed zero due to not playing).



So by that rational, in 2005 Kenyon Martin was better than Kobe because he was the 2nd best player on a team that won 14 more games than the Kobe led team and did better than Kobe in the playoffs (in which Kobe didn't make it to). :hammerhead:

[kennethgriffin]

Your such a retard
No version of kobe gets remotely close to 2003 duncan.. Not even remotely.. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team lol.. What a joke you are



Anyhow it's set in stone now duncan is 3-5 places ahead of kobe on the goat list now.. If you want to try and prop up your boy start the debate with people like lebron and bird... Duncan is too far ahead for your opinion to have any merit now


2003 shaq was 50 pounds overweight and injured half the year. Had a foot disorder.

2003 kobe is arguably his most all around skill+athletic year.

If kobe didnt rip his shoulder and knee in the playoffs while horry shot 0% from 3 for the series vs the spurs. Kobe would likely have won a title and finals mvp that season.

Duncan couldnt have had 9 straight 40 point games if he tried. And kobe was also 1st team all defense btw..


Infact kobe had more 40+ games that season than duncans had his entire life



And as far as flunkans place all time. He stopped moving up in 2006. Since that was his last year being better than a 2nd rate star like tony parker

[ShawkFactory]

2003 shaq was 50 pounds overweight and injured half the year. Had a foot disorder.

2003 kobe is arguably his most all around skill+athletic year.

If kobe didnt rip his shoulder and knee in the playoffs while horry shot 0% from 3 for the series vs the spurs. Kobe would likely have won a title and finals mvp that season.

Duncan couldnt have had 9 straight 40 point games if he tried. And kobe was also 1st team all defense btw..


Infact kobe had more 40+ games that season than duncans had his entire life



And as far as flunkans place all time. He stopped moving up in 2006. Since that was his last year being better than a 2nd rate star like tony parker
:whatever:

[Solefade]

duncan is clearly better lol

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

[IllegalD]

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

:eek:

:bowdown: :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

Well i pretty much shut this failure of a thread the **** down forever. Goodnight

[ShawkFactory]

Well i pretty much shut this failure of a thread the **** down forever. Goodnight
:kobe:

[SuperPippen]

Well i pretty much shut this failure of a thread the **** down forever. Goodnight

The fact that you say crap like this is hilarious because you don't realize that you've done nothing to sway anyone's opinion who wasn't already a Kobe stan. In fact, the only thing you do with your incessant trolling is make people hate on Kobe. That's the only thing you've managed to accomplish, and that's the greatest irony about your pathetic existence.

[HOoopCityJones]

Funny part is all these Duncan is definitely better than Kobe clowns were mad silent circa 08-10.

[ShawkFactory]

Funny part is all these Duncan is definitely better than Kobe clowns were mad silent circa 08-10.
Kobe was better during that time...

[HOoopCityJones]

Kobe was better during that time...

Still was better up to 2012-13 season when he got hurt. Only reason why it's supposedly a non discussion now is because Duncan got his role player ring and that some how cancels out Kobe's 5th as the man. Duncan wasn't even the second best payer for the Spurs no matter what their stans say.

[ShawkFactory]

Still was better up to 2012-13 season when he got hurt. Only reason why it's supposedly a non discussion now is because Duncan got his role player ring and that some how cancels out Kobe's 5th as the man. Duncan wasn't even the second best payer for the Spurs no matter what their stans say.
Duncan certainly is AT WORST the second best player on the Spurs. He's #1 when it comes to overall impact. Without him right now the Clippers would absolutely blow them out. Blake and DJ would destroy.

[T_L_P]

Still was better up to 2012-13 season when he got hurt. Only reason why it's supposedly a non discussion now is because Duncan got his role player ring and that some how cancels out Kobe's 5th as the man. Duncan wasn't even the second best payer for the Spurs no matter what their stans say.

Who was?

[Solefade]

duncan's impact >>>>>>>>> kobe's impact

[IllegalD]

Duncan >>>>> Kobe in terms of getting overrated. Given "the man" credit for roleplayer accomplishments (2007 onward)

[TheMarkMadsen]

Duncan >>>>> Kobe in terms of getting overrated. Given "the man" credit for roleplayer accomplishments (2007 onward)

Duncan averaged 11 ppg and the Spurs were still winning 60 games..

imagine if Kobe averaged 11 ppg and the Lakers finished with 60+ wins..

such a double standard

[PsychoBe]

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

what a beautiful post :applause:

[dubeta]

Boiled Down.


Career Player Efficiency Rating (The True Arbitrator)


Duncan 24.47


Kobe 23.21


Duncan > Kobe


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

[ImKobe]

2000 - Duncan injured for the Playoffs - Kobe better
2001 - Kobe leads most dominant Playoff team in WS and avgs 33/7/7 against the Spurs in the WCF - Kobe better
2002 - Kobe 27 ppg on 51% shooting in the Finals -- Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - wash
2005 - Duncan
2006 - 13 - Kobe
14-15 - Duncan because Kobe's injured

Duncan will retire pretty soon(possibly this season), we will see how Kobe bounces back from his injuries.

[ImKobe]

Boiled Down.


Career Player Efficiency Rating (The True Arbitrator)


Duncan 24.47


Kobe 23.21


Duncan > Kobe


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

CP3 has a Playoffs PER of 25.2, I guess he's the 6th best player of all-time :hammerhead:, Wade 8th and KD 10th, right? :coleman:

[SouBeachTalents]

Boiled Down.


Career Player Efficiency Rating (The True Arbitrator)


Duncan 24.47


Kobe 23.21


Duncan > Kobe


http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html

So LeBron had the 8th greatest player of all time as his teammate? Stacked

[dubeta]

So LeBron had the 8th greatest player of all time as his teammate? Stacked

A washed-up version of the 8th greatest ever, sure. Point still stands.

Wade = 8th best player all time

[ImKobe]

A washed-up version of the 8th greatest ever, sure. Point still stands.

Wade = 8th best player all time

CP3 = 6th best player of all-time :bowdown:

[dubeta]

CP3 = 6th best player of all-time :bowdown:

Agreed.


All of them are better than Kobe, how do you feel?

[ImKobe]

Agreed.


All of them are better than Kobe, how do you feel?

A guy that has never led his team to the Western Conference Finals is better than a 2x Finals MVP with 7 Finals runs at 20+ ppg.

I rest my case.

Kobe's Finals run from 2000 alone is better than CP3's entire Playoff career.

[T_L_P]

2000 - Duncan injured for the Playoffs - Kobe better
2001 - Kobe leads most dominant Playoff team in WS and avgs 33/7/7 against the Spurs in the WCF - Kobe better
2002 - Kobe 27 ppg on 51% shooting in the Finals -- Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - wash
2005 - Duncan
2006 - 13 - Kobe
14-15 - Duncan because Kobe's injured

Duncan will retire pretty soon(possibly this season), we will see how Kobe bounces back from his injuries.

Your worst post, tbh.

You Kobe Stans loving giving him 02 even though it's not really close. :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2002&p1=duncati01&y2=2002&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Duncan's Regular Season raw stats: 41.9

Kobe's RS raw stats: 35.5

Duncan has a better PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, Net Rating.

It's basically the same story for the Playoffs. Kobe shot .511 TS% throughout the Playoffs yet his team still came him with the ring, because Shaq was his usual dominant self (29/13/3 on .569 TS%). Meanwhile Duncan's best teammate for the Playoffs (Parker, Robinson was injured and averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds) was a 15/3/4 player with mediocre efficiency (.513 TS%) and horrible defense. :facepalm

On a Per 100 Possession basis, Duncan was +11.3 in scoring on his next best teammate, +3.2 in Rebounding, +0.1 in Assists, and +3.8 in Blocks.

Kobe was -4.7 in scoring, -10.1 in Rebounding, -1.1 in Assists, and -0.8 in Steals. Kobe was 7th in TS% and Duncan was 2nd (to Charles Smith who played 15 mins).

And this is all raw production. Duncan was playing the best defense of his career (outside of 03 and 04) and Kobe simply can't compare to him on that end.

Also, if 00 is Kobe because Duncan missed the Playoffs, 13 is Duncan because Kobe missed it. Or are you just being retarded for the lols?

[dubeta]

Your worst post, tbh.

You Kobe Stans loving giving him 02 even though it's not really close. :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2002&p1=duncati01&y2=2002&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Duncan's Regular Season raw stats: 41.9

Kobe's RS raw stats: 35.5

Duncan has a better PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, Net Rating.

It's basically the same story for the Playoffs. Kobe shot .511 TS% throughout the Playoffs yet his team still came him with the ring, because Shaq was his usual dominant self (29/13/3 on .569 TS%). Meanwhile Duncan's best teammate for the Playoffs (Parker, Robinson was injured and averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds) was a 15/3/4 player with mediocre efficiency (.513 TS%) and horrible defense. :facepalm

On a Per 100 Possession basis, Duncan was +11.3 in scoring on his next best teammate, +3.2 in Rebounding, +0.1 in Assists, and +3.8 in Blocks.

Kobe was -4.7 in scoring, -10.1 in Rebounding, -1.1 in Assists, and -0.8 in Steals. Kobe was 7th in TS% and Duncan was 2nd (to Charles Smith who played 15 mins).

And this is all raw production. Duncan was playing the best defense of his career (outside of 03 and 04) and Kobe simply can't compare to him on that end.

Also, if 00 is Kobe because Duncan missed the Playoffs, 13 is Duncan because Kobe missed it. Or are you just being retarded for the lols?

Oh, you love advanced stats now do you :rolleyes:

[IllegalD]

Your worst post, tbh.

You Kobe Stans loving giving him 02 even though it's not really close. :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2002&p1=duncati01&y2=2002&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Duncan's Regular Season raw stats: 41.9

Kobe's RS raw stats: 35.5

Duncan has a better PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, Net Rating.

It's basically the same story for the Playoffs. Kobe shot .511 TS% throughout the Playoffs yet his team still came him with the ring, because Shaq was his usual dominant self (29/13/3 on .569 TS%). Meanwhile Duncan's best teammate for the Playoffs (Parker, Robinson was injured and averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds) was a 15/3/4 player with mediocre efficiency (.513 TS%) and horrible defense.:facepalm

And this is all raw production. Duncan was playing the best defense of his career (outside of 03 and 04) and Kobe simply can't compare to him on that end.

Also, if 00 is Kobe because Duncan missed the Playoffs, 13 is Duncan because Kobe missed it. Or are you just being retarded for the lols?

2002 goes to Kobe. Duncan got the regular season MVP gifted to him for being a "swell, uncontroversial guy" that the media loves. Then Kobe waltzed into Timmy's home and absolutely shat on the Spurs, being a CLUTCH GOD in the 4th quarter and stealing the two games in San Antonio (after the Spurs had stolen the homecourt in Game 2).

2013 Kobe was superior to Duncan in every way. He just got injured just before the playoffs.

[T_L_P]

2002 goes to Kobe. Duncan got the regular season MVP gifted to him for being a "swell, uncontroversial guy" that the media loves. Then Kobe waltzed into Timmy's home and absolutely shat on the Spurs, being a CLUTCH GOD in the 4th quarter and stealing the two games in San Antonio (after the Spurs had stolen the homecourt in Game 2).

2013 Kobe was superior to Duncan in every way. He just got injured just before the playoffs.

So Kobe's case for the entire NBA season consists of: clutch for a series, played next to prime Shaquille O'Neal? :oldlol:

I guess we can all agree then that 04 Billups > 04 Kobe. Took Kobe's lunch even though his team wasn't favoured, ended up almost doubling Kobe's TS% in that series.

[ImKobe]

Your worst post, tbh.

You Kobe Stans loving giving him 02 even though it's not really close. :oldlol:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2002&p1=duncati01&y2=2002&p2=bryanko01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

Duncan's Regular Season raw stats: 41.9

Kobe's RS raw stats: 35.5

Duncan has a better PER, TS%, WS, WS/48, BPM, RAPM, Net Rating.

It's basically the same story for the Playoffs. Kobe shot .511 TS% throughout the Playoffs yet his team still came him with the ring, because Shaq was his usual dominant self (29/13/3 on .569 TS%). Meanwhile Duncan's best teammate for the Playoffs (Parker, Robinson was injured and averaged 5 points and 5 rebounds) was a 15/3/4 player with mediocre efficiency (.513 TS%) and horrible defense. :facepalm

On a Per 100 Possession basis, Duncan was +11.3 in scoring on his next best teammate, +3.2 in Rebounding, +0.1 in Assists, and +3.8 in Blocks.

Kobe was -4.7 in scoring, -10.1 in Rebounding, -1.1 in Assists, and -0.8 in Steals. Kobe was 7th in TS% and Duncan was 2nd (to Charles Smith who played 15 mins).

And this is all raw production. Duncan was playing the best defense of his career (outside of 03 and 04) and Kobe simply can't compare to him on that end.

Also, if 00 is Kobe because Duncan missed the Playoffs, 13 is Duncan because Kobe missed it. Or are you just being retarded for the lols?

2013 Kobe was by far a better player than Duncan during the regular season in terms of carrying a team all year and not playing on restricted minutes, pulling out comeback wins from his ass and going from one of the worst teams to a top 5 record post all-star break with Gasol, Nash facing big injuries and no bench and still putting them in the Playoffs

2000 Kobe was great before injury, he was the reason the Lakers ultimately ended up making the Playoffs and he outplayed PRIME Shaq in the most deciding game of the entire Playoffs

2002 Duncan was spectacular, but Kobe averaged 27/6/5 on 51% shooting with 55% from 3 in the Finals, not too many wing players have accomplished those numbers

ok, so this is the worst post I've ever made because you disagree about 3 seasons, where in 2 of them Kobe ended up winning the title?

Kobe in 2013 carried the entire team, hurting his numbers because of playing on injuries and 40+ minutes a night the 2nd half of the season while being forced to play in the point guard role at his age...it really doesn't compare to Duncan playing merely 30 minutes a night on a stacked team.

[ShawkFactory]

2000 - Duncan injured for the Playoffs - Kobe better
2001 - Kobe leads most dominant Playoff team in WS and avgs 33/7/7 against the Spurs in the WCF - Kobe better
2002 - Kobe 27 ppg on 51% shooting in the Finals -- Kobe
2003 - Duncan
2004 - wash
2005 - Duncan
2006 - 13 - Kobe
14-15 - Duncan because Kobe's injured

Duncan will retire pretty soon(possibly this season), we will see how Kobe bounces back from his injuries.
In the regular season in 2002 Duncan averaged 26 and 13 and was phenomenal defensively. Only Steve Smith and David Robinson (11.6 and 12.2 PPG) averaged in double figures during the season, yet Duncan still led the Spurs to 58 wins and the #2 seed. No one else even played 30 MPG and Duncan was over 40. He was the well-deserved MVP.

Against the Lakers in the playoffs he went for 29 and 17 and outplayed Shaq. The second best player on that team was a rookie Tony Parker, who averaged 14/5/2 on 41% and his always terrible defense. No one else averaged double figures. Duncan was the best player on the floor in that series, and was better than Kobe that season.

2004 was the worst year of Kobe's prime. It's not a wash. Duncan was better.

[IllegalD]

Duncan averaged 26 and 13 in 2002 and was phenomenal defensively. Against the Lakers he went for 29 and 17 and outplayed Shaq. The second best player on that team was a rookie Tony Parker, who averaged 14/5/2 on 41% and his always terrible defense. No one else averaged double figures. Duncan was the best player on the floor in that series, and was better than Kobe that season.

2004 was the worst year of Kobe's prime. It's not a wash. Duncan was better.

"Worst year of his prime", yet when the playoffs rolled around, when it really matters, did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0PmB22MFKw

That and Fisher's 0.4 shot were the turning points of the series which lead to the Lakers backdoor sweeping the Spurs after being up 2-0.

What's your excuse for Duncan's supporting cast then? :confusedshrug:

[ShawkFactory]

"Worst year of his prime", yet when the playoffs rolled around, when it really matters, did this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0PmB22MFKw

That and Fisher's 0.4 shot were the turning points of the series which lead to the Lakers backdoor sweeping the Spurs after being up 2-0.

What's your excuse for Duncan's supporting cast then? :confusedshrug:
:lol

One of the few good games he had in those playoffs.

Without Fishers shot the Spurs win that series.

[Ne 1]

So Kobe's case for the entire NBA season consists of: clutch for a series, played next to prime Shaquille O'Neal? :oldlol:


It's close. I'd probably go with Duncan at #2 and Kobe at #3 that year overall. If you want to give the edge to Duncan for an MVP season, that's fine, but Kobe was superb in the playoffs and Finals so I can see giving the edge to him. That's why it's a toss up IMO, especially considering that Kobe was the MVP of the Spurs series in '02. Shaq was actually injured in that series iirc which was the reason for his low offensive output, and the Lakers would have lost that series if it weren't for Kobe's fourth quarter play in the last 3 games. Shaq was the MVP of the Finals, but Kobe had perhaps the best Finals performance not be awarded MVP in a winning effort besides Kareem in 1980 (who was literally robbed of the FMVP thanks to CBS.)

[Prime_Shaq]

What debate?

[HOoopCityJones]

:lol

One of the few good games he had in those playoffs.

Without Fishers shot the Spurs win that series.

You shook.:roll:

[ShawkFactory]

You shook.:roll:
:oldlol:

Am I really?

Should I just stop arguing with dumbass Kobe stans?

[Shep]

Burden of proof is on you. You're the one making the outlandish claim, and you've done nothing to convince me that Kobe > Duncan in 2000.
Not my problem

Contributing as the #2 on a championship team being amazingly impressive and overriding what Duncan did? Not a fact, your opinion.
My opinion is fact

Scottie being better in every championship run? Again, not even close to a fact.
I made that statement, so it is a fact

Freak injury making you a worse player than someone who didn't suffer one? Ummm...
No not at all. But the fact remains that Bryant was able to build on his regular season where Duncan could not. Bryant's playoff performance was the difference.

Duncan has ALWAYS upped his game in the playoffs and 2000 would have been no different. The injury is the only thing that can be used...But he was still the better player.
:roll: so we should increase his ranking for a particular year based on what he did previous years :roll: this loser.

Duncan did not "up" his game in the playoffs in 2004, 2009, or 2011.

I'm giving YOU facts.
:rolleyes:

So by that rational, in 2005 Kenyon Martin was better than Kobe because he was the 2nd best player on a team that won 14 more games than the Kobe led team and did better than Kobe in the playoffs (in which Kobe didn't make it to).
:lol this dumb ****.

1) The Nuggets actually won 15 more games than the Lakers
2) Martin was actually the Nuggets 3rd best player
3) What comparison does Martin and the Nuggets have on Bryant and the Lakers of '00?
4) **** off

[ShawkFactory]

Not my problem

My opinion is fact

I made that statement, so it is a fact

No not at all. But the fact remains that Bryant was able to build on his regular season where Duncan could not. Bryant's playoff performance was the difference.

:roll: so we should increase his ranking for a particular year based on what he did previous years :roll: this loser.

Duncan did not "up" his game in the playoffs in 2004, 2009, or 2011.

:rolleyes:

:lol this dumb ****.

1) The Nuggets actually won 15 more games than the Lakers
2) Martin was actually the Nuggets 3rd best player
3) What comparison does Martin and the Nuggets have on Bryant and the Lakers of '00?
4) **** off
:whatever:

[G0ATbe]

Duncan stans getting shitted on as usual:applause: .

[Wiltside]

But the fact remains that Bryant was able to build on his regular season where Duncan could not. Bryant's playoff performance was the difference.


Kobe didn't build on his 2005 regular season performance.:confusedshrug:

[Shep]

:whatever:
:rolleyes:

Kobe didn't build on his 2005 regular season performance
Try and keep up, we are talking about 2000

[TheBigVeto]

Disagree with OP.
Duncan is better than Kobe in all seasons.

[Mr Feeny]

Disagree with OP.
Duncan is better than Kobe in all seasons.He was huge tonight. Great performance in a pivotal game.

[Artillery]

lol comparing Kobe to Duncan in recent years. Lakers have been irrelevant the past five years while Spurs are defending champs with back-to-back Finals runs. Duncan's longevity/durability is much better than Kobe's. He's still an impact player at age 39 while Kobe's been a liability for the Lakers.

[AirFederer]

There is no debate.

KObe is/was obviously a great great player, one of the best ever, but for me, it`s quite clear that TD ranks higher.

[HOoopCityJones]

Duncan a beast.

Kobe still own that ass though.

[Mr Feeny]

There is no debate.

KObe is/was obviously a great great player, one of the best ever, but for me, it`s quite clear that TD ranks higher.I think most people agree with you.

[DMV2]

5 rings >>> 4 full rings and a partial 2000 Finals ring
3 FMVP >>> 2 FMVP
2 MVP >>> 1 MVP
Still playing in the playoffs at 39 >>>> being a cripple

Nuff said.

[Stringer Bell]

Duncan is a great player all-time and better at his peak.

[Magic 32]

Still playing in the playoffs at 39 >>>> being a cripple


Classy stuff.

Easy when you play on the senior citizen minutes plan for the last 5 years instead of practically the entire game.

Oh and Kobe is still 4-2.

[r15mohd]

Classy stuff.

Easy when you play on the senior citizen minutes plan for the last 5 years instead of practically the entire game.

Oh and Kobe is still 4-2.


this, too, could have been apart of Kobe's career...however, there was the ridiculing of added superstars, new coaches being fired thanks much to Kobe, and wanting to shoot 25 shots per night to prove he's still the "best" -- shooting yourself in the foot, to sum it up

taking a back-seat isn't something Kobe can do, he refused to be out of the spotlight even when it meant the best for his career in the long run (2004 finals, Shaq being ran out of town). he rushed to be the 1st option and hurt his own legacy, had he let the progression take its course with Shaq fading out of 1st option to 2nd within a few years (likely by the end of 2006), both probably have 6-7 rings together as the crown is passed over.

that's the difference between Kobe and TD...with Kobe, it's all about him 1st and whatever the team does after. with TD, it's all about the team and what he can do to better them.

[DMAVS41]

This debate ended in 13...

Now it's not a debate at all.

[Magic 32]

there was the ridiculing of added superstars, new coaches being fired thanks much to Kybe

Put down The National Enquirer son.



wanting to shoot 25 shots per night to prove he's still the "best"


I remember him trying to get his team to the playoffs.



taking a back-seat isn't something Kobe can do,


He did longer than Lebron, Jordan and Magic combined.



he refused to be out of the spotlight even when it meant the best for his career in the long run (2004 finals, Shaq being ran out of town).


Again, Shaq wanted an insane contract and was over the hill by 2006.

They choose Kobe.



he rushed to be the 1st option and hurt his own legacy,


He was 25. How long should he have waited.

30?



had he let the progression take its course with Shaq fading out of 1st option to 2nd within a few years (likely by the end of 2006), both probably have 6-7 rings together as the crown is passed over.


Do you watch Inside the NBA?

[r15mohd]

Put down The National Enquirer son.

Pau's spoke to it, as had Dwight...try again :rolleyes:


I remember him trying to get his team to the playoffs.

how'd that work out? i assume you don't notice the problem...do you? :rolleyes:


He did longer than Lebron, Jordan and Magic combined.

OK, point? :confusedshrug: it was the better choice in actually winning titles...so long as that was Kobe's goal, and not being just the best player in the league. he showed the latter, and with it came the negatives...missed playoffs, early round exit, etc.


Again, Shaq wanted an insane contract and was over the hill by 2006.

They choose Kobe.

deserved the contract, and by 2006 he was on a title winning team...had Kobe stayed #2 in 2004, the Lakers likely win 2004, 2005 and 2006 with the Shaq/Kobe tandem. not hard to imagine that seeing Shaq won with a lesser Wade in 2006



He was 25. How long should he have waited.

30?

he had maybe 1-2yrs before the 1st option role was passed from Shaq to Kobe...we already saw many instances of it leading up to the 2004 Finals.


Do you watch Inside the NBA.

indicating? :confusedshrug:

[ISHGoat]

What debate?

You put any above average wingman in kobe's place and they will literally achieve the same results.

Youre telling me guys like tmac, vince carter, james harden, joe johnson, paul pierce, etc.. dont win 3 rings with shaq? They dont win rings when you team them up with gasol, bynum, artest, ariza, fisher, coached by PJ?

***** please

[Magic 32]

What debate?

You put any above average wingman in kobe's place and they will literally achieve the same results.

Youre telling me guys like tmac, vince carter, james harden, joe johnson, paul pierce, etc.. dont win 3 rings with shaq? They dont win rings when you team them up with gasol, bynum, artest, ariza, fisher, coached by PJ?

***** please

Is this 2005 again?



They dont win rings when you team them up with gasol, bynum, artest, ariza, fisher, coached by PJ?


Nice. Ariza and Artest on the same team? Fisher? Bynum putting up 9&8 in the playoffs.

http://i.imgur.com/vmJykir.gif

[r15mohd]

Is this 2005 again?



Nice. Ariza and Artest on the same team? Fisher? Bynum putting up 9&8 in the playoffs.

http://i.imgur.com/vmJykir.gif

again failing to see Bynum's impact outside of stats...Pau and Bynum, along with Odom off the bench proved to be the Lakers biggest threat.

since you love pulling stats up...post the offense and defensive paint presence versus their opponents to give a better view

[Magic 32]

Pau's spoke to it, as had Dwight...try again :rolleyes:


http://i.imgur.com/5AIbTU5.gif




how'd that work out? i assume you don't notice the problem...do you? :rolleyes:


He got injured. Did get his team to the playoffs (where they showed why he had to play 48 min to get them in).



OK, point? :confusedshrug: it was the better choice in actually winning titles...so long as that was Kobe's goal, and not being just the best player in the league. he showed the latter, and with it came the negatives...missed playoffs, early round exit, etc.

Are we still talking about the 2004-2007 Lakees?

Nothing Kobe could do with those rosters (other than keeping the 3 pensioners he was playing with together for a sure-fire loss against the Spurs in 2005, 2006 and beyond).



deserved the contract, and by 2006 he was on a title winning team...had Kobe stayed #2 in 2004, the Lakers likely win 2004, 2005 and 2006 with the Shaq/Kobe tandem.


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm




he had maybe 1-2yrs before the 1st option role was passed from Shaq to Kobe...we already saw many instances of it leading up to the 2004 Finals.


So he had to wait until he was 27? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Magic 32]

again failing to see Bynum's impact outside of stats...Pau and Bynum, along with Odom off the bench proved to be the Lakers biggest threat.


Unreal.

I remember game 5 of the 2010 finals when BBallbreakdown made a video calling out the Lakers frontcourt for basically betraying Kobe with their defense.

The hate is stong in you.

[ISHGoat]

Unreal.

I remember game 5 of the 2010 finals when BBallbreakdown made a video calling out the Lakers frontcourt for basically betraying Kobe with their defense.

The hate is stong in you.

Its admirable to stick up for your idol, but give it up man. Kobe just wasnt that good at the game

[Magic 32]

Its admirable to stick up for your idol, but give it up man. Kobe just wasnt that good at the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96iQAHZw_tQ

[r15mohd]

He got injured. Did get his team to the playoffs (there they showed why he had to play 48 min to get them in).

lol...right!


Are we still talking about the 2004-2007 Lakees?

Nothing Kobe could do with those rosters (other than keeping the 3 pensioners he was playing with together for a sure-fire loss against the Spurs in 2005, 2006 and beyond).

wrong! in 2004, all he had to do was stop chucking and let Shaq be 1st option and they were on a 4peat. as for pensioners, wasn't Malone and Payton on short term deals (Malone wanted his ring and was out, i think his was 1yr deal?). Payton left to Miami, no and won with Shaq and Wade.



:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

so Shaq doesnt deserve the contract back then in being the most dominant/game changing player in the league at 32-33yrs while still putting up 22/11 stats and steering his squad into the playoffs with high probabilities at titles...but Kobe deserves his 2yr deal worth close to 50mil and missing the playoffs, albeit at age 36 now?

yup, i'd :facepalm all day too at realizing this :rolleyes:


So he had to wait until he was 27? :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]

what does age have to do with anything when you're loading up on rings, likely 5 by the time he was ready to be first option in 2005/6? all goes back to wanting the spotlight only in himself, same way you perceive it, and not the betterment of the team goals of titles.

[Mr Feeny]

this, too, could have been apart of Kobe's career...however, there was the ridiculing of added superstars, new coaches being fired thanks much to Kobe, and wanting to shoot 25 shots per night to prove he's still the "best" -- shooting yourself in the foot, to sum it up

taking a back-seat isn't something Kobe can do, he refused to be out of the spotlight even when it meant the best for his career in the long run (2004 finals, Shaq being ran out of town). he rushed to be the 1st option and hurt his own legacy, had he let the progression take its course with Shaq fading out of 1st option to 2nd within a few years (likely by the end of 2006), both probably have 6-7 rings together as the crown is passed over.

that's the difference between Kobe and TD...with Kobe, it's all about him 1st and whatever the team does after. with TD, it's all about the team and what he can do to better them.

Pretty much sums up what most people on this board think.

[Magic 32]

Pretty much sums up what most people on this board think.

Wow. What an endorsement.

[Nick Young]

Does Duncan have a gold medal?


Black Mamba all day every day:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Magic 32]

what does age have to do with anything when you're loading up on rings, likely 5 by the time he was ready to be first option in 2005/6?

So now he would have been a first option just one year from when he did? Stay consistent please!

The older and talentless supporting cast of 2004 against the 2005 Spurs and 2006 Mavs?

Sounds like a cake walk, especially if Kobe stays behind Shaq (who was putting up 20/8 and 18/10 in the 2005 and 2006 playoffs).

Stunning numbers!

[Nick Young]

Did Duncan ever swat MJ?
http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0519/photo/jordan_kobe_195.jpg

[r15mohd]

Unreal.

I remember game 5 of the 2010 finals when BBallbreakdown made a video calling out the Lakers frontcourt for basically betraying Kobe with their defense.

The hate is stong in you.

betraying Kobe :rolleyes:

how about Kobe betraying the Lakers with a 6/24 game 7 and Ron Artest having to come to the rescue in the same 2010 finals? :confusedshrug: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

[Magic 32]

betraying Kobe :rolleyes:

how about Kobe betraying the Lakers with a 6/24 game 7 and Ron Artest having to come to the rescue in the same 2010 finals? :confusedshrug: :hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

Nice, but had they showed up in Boston there would have been no game 7.

[r15mohd]

So now he would have been a first option just one year from when he did? Stay consistent please!

I truly underestimate your retardedness :facepalm

1st option with a garbage team because Kobe runs Shaq out of town, missing the playoffs and 1st round exits, etc. or!!!

1st option with Shaq as his 2nd option, and basically being ongoing title contenders

that hard to understand? :confusedshrug: :facepalm



The older and talentless supporting cast of 2004 against the 2005 Spurs and 2006 Mavs?

failed to acknowledge Malone being gone after the 2004 title and surely Horace Grant, Payton probably stays due to him being effective off the bench still. Rick Fox hangs it up too as he was on his final year. your pensioners rhetoric is false...try again!


Sounds like a cake walk, especially if Kobe stays behind Shaq (who was putting up 20/8 and 18/10 in 2005 and 2006)

could be when the tides changed for Kobe as being outright #1, he was showing signs of it through 2004. Shaq gladly took backseat to Flash in 2005/6, no? why wouldn't he do the same for Kobe knowing it meant more title runs?

Shaq was very willing to accept his role on the team to keep them atop, Kobe wasnt.

[r15mohd]

Nice, but had they showed up in Boston there would have been no game 7.


same can be said about Boston's poor output in game 6...had they been even mediocre rather than garbage, they win the title in 6 games

[Magic 32]

1st option with Shaq as his 2nd option, and basically being ongoing title contenders


You just said that Kobe would have to wait 2 years for that to happen.


Now he's the first option?



failed to acknowledge Malone being gone after the 2004 title and surely Horace Grant, Payton probably stays due to him being effective off the bench still. Rick Fox hangs it up too as he was on his final year. your pensioners rhetoric is false...try again!


We keep Payton! Woow Awesome!!!




Shaq gladly took backseat to Flash in 2005/6, no? why wouldn't he do the same for Kobe knowing it meant more title runs?

Shaq was very willing to accept his role on the team to keep them atop, Kobe wasnt.

Shaq gladly took backseat to show up Kobe.

No way he would do it with Kobe.

And they still would have lost in the west if he did in 2005 and 2006.

And Kobe would have been left on his own like Wade was in 2008-2010.

[lilandywiggins]

Did Duncan ever swat MJ?
http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0519/photo/jordan_kobe_195.jpg

Not sure, but Duncan didn't ever guard Jordan, so even as a big, he had less opportunities to. Also, Kobe had more games against Jordan.

[r15mohd]

[QUOTE]You just said that Kobe would have to wait 2 years for that to happen.


Now he's the first option?

if by 2004 he's showing he's showing the approach to 1st option, you'd think that as 2005/6 comes around it becomes apparent. it's call estimation based on their previous years and what took place.

2004 shaq is 1st option, Kobe showing signs of being 1st option too (though not ready)
2005 kobe shows more signs of 1st option, Shaq declines a bit...1st option role likely shared
2006 kobe is outright 1st option, shaq is #2...still title worthy




We keep Payton! Woow Awesome!!!

amazing isnt it! veteran and productive back up PG (pun intended) all while at a very low cost. :applause:




Shaq gladly took backseat to show up Kobe.

No way he would do it with Kobe.

with Phil at the helm and knowing what is best for the team, Shaq listens...it happens.



And they still would have lost in the west if he did in 2005 and 2006.

yes, because the Spurs/Mavs have had their number all along :rolleyes:


And Kobe would have been left on his own like Wade was in 2008-2010.

Wade bought into the Riley's plan of an epic 2010 FA signing...that's why it remained as it did. Lakers have success so who know what FA signings or who is jumping on board at this point.

what is known is there is the likely of a 4-5-6 peat up and through 2005/6, for the least a 4 peat and maybe 5 with not one finals loss to that point.

how does that look on their resume by 2006 with Finals appearances and all of them being wins? pretty good, i'd say :cheers:

[Magic 32]

what is known is there is the likely of a 4-5-6 peat up and through 2005/6, for the least a 4 peat and maybe 5 with not one finals loss to that point.


http://cdn.funnyhub.com/2015/jan/facepalm/facepalm03.gif

http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/FNFN

[ArbitraryWater]

[QUOTE=Magic 32]http://cdn.funnyhub.com/2015/jan/facepalm/facepalm03.gifQUOTE]

You watch "AnneWill", bro?

[r15mohd]

http://cdn.funnyhub.com/2015/jan/facepalm/facepalm03.gif

http://s.mlkshk-cdn.com/r/FNFN

deny all you want...a 4peat, and this LAL squad is competing with the 80s Celtics and 90s Bulls as the best team ever to be formed, if they go 5 for 5 it's basically stapled.

but that's for a Laker fans regret in it not happening...Kobe-only stans wouldn't understand the feeling.

[Magic 32]

[QUOTE=Magic 32]http://cdn.funnyhub.com/2015/jan/facepalm/facepalm03.gifQUOTE]

You watch "AnneWill", bro?

No. But I think I might have seen her show once when I visited Germany.

[Magic 32]

deny all you want...a 4peat, and this LAL squad is competing with the 80s Celtics and 90s Bulls as the best team ever to be formed, if they go 5 for 5 it's basically stapled.

but that's for a Laker fans regret in it not happening...Kobe-only stans wouldn't understand the feeling.

So Shaq and Kobe beats the Mavs, the Spurs and Pistons in 2005 and 2006 with......who is the third best player again?

[r15mohd]

So Shaq and Kobe beats the Mavs, the Spurs and Pistons in 2005 and 2006 with......who is the third best player again?




2004 is won if Kobe accepts his role as #2 in the finals. that title is sealed and delivered to LA, if that were the case. nothing needed changing but that.

as for 2005 and 2006 titles...how often did the Mavs or Spurs beat a 1st option Kobe and a 2nd option big putting up 20/10, with role players? :confusedshrug:

though that came a couple years after with Pau being #2 behind Kobe, we saw exactly what would of happened had Kobe not rushed his #1 shine and allowed Shaq to decline into the #2 role. :hammerhead: :hammerhead: why would it be any different to waiting the few years later, than immediate transition with Shaq and Phil still around?