Isiah Thomas: The Most Underrated Great Ever?

[ClipperRevival]

The guy was "the man" on a team that won back-to-back championships in an amazingly tough era. Taking down the great Celtics, Lakers and Bulls teams. His team went to 3 straight finals.

Who can forget his 25 points in the 3rd quarter in game 6 in the Finals in 1988, when he could barely walk? Or his 16 points in 90 seconds against the Knicks?

His career peaked when he averaged 28 ppg against the Blazers in the 1990 Finals, taking home FMVP.

His Pistons took the 1987 Celtics to 7 games and might've won the series had Isiah not choked away the last second pass in game 6 of the ECF. Instead, they had to wait another year before they regrouped and beat the Celtics in 1988.

They very well might've beaten the 1988 Lakers had Isiah not hurt his ankle. We could be talking about a 3 peat team.

His teams kept MJ's teams from advancing for years, finally relenting to the Bulls in 1991.

The guy was the ultimate warrior. He smiled on the outside but inside, he was a straight killer. Fighting Cartwright, taking elbows from Malone, etc.

The guy competed in the toughest era ever in terms of top tier teams and his team came away with 3 finals appearances and a back-to-back championship. His teams interrupted the glory days of Bird's Celtics, Magic's Lakers and MJ's Bulls.

The Pistons of that era are one of the best teams ever. And Isiah was the guy leading the charge. Sure, Dumars won Finals MVP in 1989, but everyone in the world knows Isiah was "the man." The alpha dog. The leader.

It might be quite some time when we see a PG winning a ring as "the man." That is so tough to do.

Thoughts?

[SourSamCassell]

I absolutely agree with you!

The 80's and 90's were the greatest eras on NBA basketball! Ha ha!

[Prime_Shaq]

Yes.

[upside24]

The comments about Bird, leaving the game against the Bulls in the ECF after defeat and his absence from the Dream Team.

[ClipperRevival]

Also, let's not forget he got blackballed by MJ on the 1992 Dream Team. Everyone knows Isiah deserved to be on the that team ahead of Stockton at the time. And the way his team left the court early in the 1991 ECF against the Bulls might've justified MJ's hate for Isiah but still, he deserved to be on that team.

And his piggybacking on the comments made by Rodman about Bird being just a good player if he was black. That really put his image at a bad place.

But film don't lie. This guy was a legend.

[imdaman99]

Fck Isiah. As a GM though. He was great as a player. The heart he showed (was too young to really have watched) on a broken leg? Meanwhile we have guys sitting out the last minutes of Finals games with cramps? :roll:

[upside24]

Also, let's not forget he got blackballed by MJ on the 1992 Dream Team. Everyone knows Isiah deserved to be on the that team ahead of Stockton at the time. And the way his team left the court early in the 1991 ECF against the Bulls might've justified MJ's hate for Isiah but still, he deserved to be on that team.

And his piggybacking on the comments made by Rodman about Bird being just a good player if he was black. That really put his image at a bad place.

But film don't lie. This guy was a legend.
Absolutely. His actions and words may have upset many but he should get way more recognition for what he was able to accomplish.

[ClipperRevival]

If anyone hasn't watched the 30 for 30 ESPN documentary on these Pistons, titled, "Bad Boys", you really need to watch it. IMO, it's the best basketball documentary I have ever seen.

[Jailblazers7]

The thing that hurts is legacy is the simple fact that he made so many enemies. Basically he made too many enemies to truly be celebrated long after his playing days. Also, he kind of gets the shaft because the league is so sensitive about physicality and fighting so the Bad Boys have more of a cult following instead of being a celebrated part of tradition.

[ZMonkey11]

Underrated at criminal levels. 1st degree felony charges should be brought up against everybody.

[upside24]

Underrated at criminal levels. 1st degree felony charges should be brought up against everybody.
Rep.

[ClipperRevival]

The thing that hurts is legacy is the simple fact that he made so many enemies. Basically he made too many enemies to truly be celebrated long after his playing days. Also, he kind of gets the shaft because the league is so sensitive about physicality and fighting so the Bad Boys have more of a cult following instead of being a celebrated part of tradition.

All true. The fact that he called out Bird when he was considered the best player on the planet really hurt his image. Also, the Bulls incident hurt. He got on the bad side of both Bird and MJ, two freaken legends (although Bird always said that never bothered him).

And yes, you can put me in the cult following part. I so miss the days when physicality was allowed and you could show emotion and get in a guys face without being called a T. That's the era I grew up in. So getting a hard foul was part of the game, even in the playgrounds. I still love the game but today, the game is a joke because you can't touch anyone and can't show any emotion.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So you watched a 30 for 30 documentary, and now feel the need to overrate Isiah because you actually never saw him play...

He's rated just fine hipsters.

[ClipperRevival]

So you watched a 30 for 30 documentary, and now feel the need to overrate Isiah because you actually never saw him play...

He's rated just fine hipsters.

No you 12 year old kid. I grew up watching him. Please feel free NOT to comment on this thread and make this a "my era is better than your era" thread like you always do. :facepalm

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

No you 12 year old kid. I grew up watching him. Please feel free NOT to comment on this thread and make this a "my era is better than your era" thread like you always do. :facepalm
Listen idiot,

You're infatuated with a player all because of a documentary. I promise that your angst will eventually subside. :oldlol:

[ClipperRevival]

Listen idiot,

You're infatuated with a player all because of a documentary. I promise that your angst will eventually subside. :oldlol:

LOL. Freaken little kid. I'll ball you up so badly even at the age of 38. I promise you. Just stop posting in my thread ok?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

LOL. Freaken little kid. I'll ball you up so badly even at the age of 38. I promise you. Just stop posting in my thread ok?
You're a posing hipster. Shut up.

[SHAQisGOAT]

All true. The fact that he called out Bird when he was considered the best player on the planet really hurt his image. Also, the Bulls incident hurt. He got on the bad side of both Bird and MJ, two freaken legends (although Bird always said that never bothered him.

And yes, you can put in the cult following part. I so miss the days when physicality was allowed and you could show emotion and get in a guys face without being called a T. That's the era I grew up in. So getting a hard foul was part of the game, even in the playgrounds. I still love the game but today, the game is a joke today because you can't touch anyone and can't show any emotion.

It wasn't Zeke who called out Bird, it was Rodman, who was mad because Larry was killing him 1on1, probably the 1st time he got lit up so bad by a white boy, LB even did a reverse dunk "on him". They asked Isiah about Dennis' comments, and he just laughed and went along with it (clear in the 30 for 30 documentary too).

As for Jordan, there's obviously plenty of bad blood but can't tell exactly everything that went down (except for all the physicality in games, to say the least); things such as the ASG freeze-out are not clear to see...

Isiah is underrated sometimes, yea... As I've said before, I probably got him as the 3rd GOAT PG. Probably top30 on my all-time list too.

Those Bad Boys didn't beat the best "version" of the 80's Celtics though, in 1987 they were declining already, plenty of injuries, no bench... Took that clutch steal (and a terrific series) by Bird to get Boston through. Yea, call it choke by Thomas but also very clutch by Larry.
In 1988, they were even worse and Bird couldn't just play like before, on the verge of getting surgery to remove bone spurs on both ankles, and very messed up back.

LA wasn't at their VERY best either, but that bogus call in '88 most likely cost the Pistons a title.

[ClipperRevival]

It wasn't Zeke who called out Bird, it was Rodman, who was mad because Larry was killing him 1on1, probably the 1st time he got lit up so bad by a white boy, LB even did a reverse dunk "on him". They asked Isiah about Dennis' comments, and he just laughed and went along with it (clear in the 30 for 30 documentary too).

As for Jordan, there's obviously plenty of bad blood but can't tell exactly everything that went down (except for all the physicality in games, to say the least); things such as the ASG freeze-out are not clear to see...

Isiah is underrated sometimes, yea... As I've said before, I probably got him as the 3rd GOAT PG. Probably top30 on my all-time list too.

Those Bad Boys didn't beat the best "version" of the 80's Celtics though, in 1987 they were declining already, plenty of injuries, no bench... Took that clutch steal (and a terrific series) by Bird to get Boston through. Yea, call it choke by Thomas but also very clutch by Larry.
In 1988, they were even worse and Bird couldn't just play like before, on the verge of getting surgery to remove bone spurs on both ankles, and very messed up back.

LA wasn't at their VERY best either, but that bogus call in '88 most likely cost the Pistons a title.


I know about the comment, that's why I said, "And his piggybacking on the comments made by Rodman about Bird being just a good player if he was black."

But yeah, Bird's Celtics were peak in 1986. But still, you can say they might've choked away the series in 1987.

[Dro]

Didn't we just have this topic the other day?

[navy]

Didn't we just have this topic the other day?
We did. How underrated can a guy be if everyone thinks they are underrated.

[GOBB]

90% of this thread wasn't even born yet. Stop frauding please.

[SouBeachTalents]

Fck Isiah. As a GM though. He was great as a player. The heart he showed (was too young to really have watched) on a broken leg? Meanwhile we have guys sitting out the last minutes of Finals games with cramps? :roll:

It doesn't matter what the thread topic is, you are literally incapable of making a post that doesn't allude to LeBron

[bizil]

Didn't we just have this topic the other day?

We sure did! Personally, I don't think Zeke is underrated. Any small guard who can dominate a game scoring is compared to Isiah or AI. He's universally known basically as the 3rd GOAT PG. He made the 50 greatest team and is ALWAYS praised as the guy who went through Bird, MJ, and Magic on the way to a ring. Zeke was SIMPLY to high profile and accomplished to be underrated. He had team and solo accolades in SPADES!

And if he was underrated to an extent, it was BECAUSE OF HIS OWN BEHAVIOR!! The Bad Boy Pistons thrived on being villians at all cost. And got two rings out of the deal. But on the flip side, Isiah was the leader of the pack. So ultimately, he paid the ultimate price!

For example, Chuck Daly was still chosen to be the Dream Team coach despite Detroit's playing style. BUT Isiah was left off because of his damaged relationships with the players.

And even Magic was instrumental in not wanting him on the Dream Team. At the time, Magic not wanting Zeke on the team wasn't public knowledge. It was about Isiah's beefs with MJ and Bird that were common knowledge. So POLARIZING HELL YA! Underrated I would say no. Guys like Nique, McAdoo, English, Dantley, George McGinnis, Dan Issel, Gilmore, etc. are much more underrated.

[sp6r=underrated]

Thomas is among the most overrated players commonly considered ATG:

(i) his peak seasons weren't that high in quality. I doubt he should crack a top 40 list of players based on peak play.
(ii) he doesn't have great longevity. He was about a league average player for his final three seasons.
(iii) he gets tons of credit for the success of the bad boy pistons even though the team won primarily because of its defense in which he was far from a critical piece.

I don't have a problem with him being a hofer due to how his career turned out but he doesn't deserve his lofty rep in casual circles.

[AirFederer]

#11 all time :cheers:

[SouBeachTalents]

#11 all time :cheers:

:biggums:

[97 bulls]

It wasn't Zeke who called out Bird, it was Rodman, who was mad because Larry was killing him 1on1, probably the 1st time he got lit up so bad by a white boy, LB even did a reverse dunk "on him". They asked Isiah about Dennis' comments, and he just laughed and went along with it (clear in the 30 for 30 documentary too).

As for Jordan, there's obviously plenty of bad blood but can't tell exactly everything that went down (except for all the physicality in games, to say the least); things such as the ASG freeze-out are not clear to see...

Isiah is underrated sometimes, yea... As I've said before, I probably got him as the 3rd GOAT PG. Probably top30 on my all-time list too.

Those Bad Boys didn't beat the best "version" of the 80's Celtics though, in 1987 they were declining already, plenty of injuries, no bench... Took that clutch steal (and a terrific series) by Bird to get Boston through. Yea, call it choke by Thomas but also very clutch by Larry.
In 1988, they were even worse and Bird couldn't just play like before, on the verge of getting surgery to remove bone spurs on both ankles, and very messed up back.

LA wasn't at their VERY best either, but that bogus call in '88 most likely cost the Pistons a title.

I've said this before and ill say it again, why are the Lakers and Celtics the only recipients of this kind of logic? Literally every year they beat a team that was hurt or had players comming back from injuries.

[Dro]

We did. How underrated can a guy be if everyone thinks they are underrated.
True, lol...

[Dro]

Thomas is among the most overrated players commonly considered ATG:

(i) his peak seasons weren't that high in quality. I doubt he should crack a top 40 list of players based on peak play.
(ii) he doesn't have great longevity. He was about a league average player for his final three seasons.
(iii) he gets tons of credit for the success of the bad boy pistons even though the team won primarily because of its defense in which he was far from a critical piece.

I don't have a problem with him being a hofer due to how his career turned out but he doesn't deserve his lofty rep in casual circles.
:coleman:

[sp6r=underrated]

:coleman:

Please identify what you consider to be Isiah's peak season. I'll list the players better than him. If you disagree with any of my selections, I will state why you are wrong.

[PsychoBe]

I've said this before and ill say it again, why are the Lakers and Celtics the only recipients of this kind of logic? Literally every year they beat a team that was hurt or had players comming back from injuries.

this. people need to stop with the "but they weren't fully healthy" bull. the celtics never beat the lakers at their peak, the lakers never beat the celtics at their peak, the celtics never beat the sixers at their peak, etc, etc.

just stop it.

[ClipperRevival]

Thomas is among the most overrated players commonly considered ATG:

(i) his peak seasons weren't that high in quality. I doubt he should crack a top 40 list of players based on peak play.
(ii) he doesn't have great longevity. He was about a league average player for his final three seasons.
(iii) he gets tons of credit for the success of the bad boy pistons even though the team won primarily because of its defense in which he was far from a critical piece.

I don't have a problem with him being a hofer due to how his career turned out but he doesn't deserve his lofty rep in casual circles.

At his peak, he was giving you 20-22 ppg and 10-14 apg. And in the 1990 Finals, he averaged 28 ppg and won FMVP. How many pgs exceeded that? Not to mention, leading his team to back to back rings in the toughest era ever for top tier teams? He is one of a few pgs in history to be the alpha dog on a team that won a ring. Most rings are won with a combo of great bigs and/or wing players leading the way. It's incredibly hard for a 6'0" pg to impact the game.

I mean I don't know what more you want from the guy. Could he have scored more? Of course. But that would've probably resulted in him winning no rings. He sacrificed his stats to win. A lot of people can put up meaningless numbers on bad teams. You play the game to win. And let me tell you, their place in history is secure. Winning back to back in the toughest era for top tier teams in history speaks for itself.

[ZMonkey11]

At his peak, he was giving you 20-22 ppg and 10-14 apg. And in the 1990 Finals, he averaged 28 ppg and won FMVP. How many pgs exceeded that? Not to mention, leading his team to back to back rings in the toughest era ever for top tier teams? He is one of a few pgs in history to be the alpha dog on a team that won a ring. Most rings are won with a combo of great bigs and/or wing players leading the way. It's incredibly hard for a 6'0" pg to impact the game.

I mean I don't know what more you want from the guy. Could he have scored more? Of course. But that would've probably resulted in him winning no rings. He sacrificed his stats to win. A lot of people can put up meaningless numbers on bad teams. You play the game to win. And let me tell you, their place in history is secure. Winning back to back in the toughest era for top tier teams in history speaks for itself.


http://cheryl-online.net/gallery/albums/GIFs/X%20Factor/Season%205/542x025.gif

Beautiful.