Why is being an roleplayer at 39 a bad thing?

[kurple]

Maybe Kobe would still be playing and maybe even winning, if he tried something similar.

More greats should learn from Duncan. Iverson for example


Winning another ring is still a big deal as he's still the leader on the team. He's just able to adapt to his surroundings more than most other ego-driven superstars

[Xoush]

Maybe Kobe would still be playing and maybe even winning, if he tried something similar.
Kobe did not even have the chance to step back and be a roleplayer, what the **** are you talking about? Two seasons destroyed because of injuries, truly horrific ownership and bums as teammates....

[BigNBAfan]

alpha personalities man

[BuffaloBill]

Because insidehoops

[kurple]

Kobe did not even have the chance to step back and be a roleplayer, what the **** are you talking about? Two seasons destroyed because of injuries, truly horrific ownership and bums as teammates....
do i need to post a pic of dwight, nash, pau and artest?

[iamgine]

The great thing is Duncan still maintain everything from his prime. He just scores less and play less minutes. He roughly has the same rbd/ast/stl/blk rate and percentages as his prime self.

[Xoush]

do i need to post a pic of dwight, nash, pau and artest?
Are we talking about Nash and Artest who don't even play anymore?
Pau wasn't invested, played soft. And don't get me started on Dwight Coward...

[kurple]

alpha personalities man
the alpha shit is cool and all. you need some of it

but its a shame when it affect your teams chances to win. Just like this years OKC and Chuckbrook

[kurple]

Are we talking about Nash and Artest who don't even play anymore?
Pau wasn't invested, played soft. And don't get me started on Dwight Coward...
give it up bro. that team was stacked

and one of the biggest failiures in sports

[JohnMax]

Bryant is a fringe top ten all-time player, with the most overinflated legacy in the history of the game. His greatest accomplishment is his remarkable longevity as a top five player. But, contrary to what the media and certain biased fans alike would have us believe with their revisionist history, he was never the best player in the game for an extended stretch and it was never his league, so to speak, the way it was Jordan's or O'Neal's or Duncan's.

[BigNBAfan]

give it up bro. that team was stacked

and one of the biggest failiures in sports

biggest failures in sports even with all the injuries? i guess a nuggets fan would be the one to make that call

[IllegalD]

Yeah right. That 2013 Lakers team was so "stacked" that a 35 year old Kobe in his 17th season had to have one of his GOAT regular seasons of all time, and one of the GOAT regular seasons for a player in his 17th season, putting up crazy numbers, hitting multiple game winners and straight up carrying his team just to get them into the playoffs.

:roll:

Please tell me when the last time that Duncan had to exert that much energy in the regular season just to get his team to the playoffs. :confusedshrug:

A decade ago at best. Ever since then he's had the luxury of having a guy like Tony Parker who can carry the team during the regular season while Duncan takes his oldman rests. :crazysam:

Nobody is saying there's anything "bad" with being a roleplayer at 39.

What we're saying is that if Duncan makes another finals or wins another ring then it shouldn't be viewed in the same context as winning the ring as "the man" of the team (which many people view as whoever wins the Finals MVP). In his past 2 rings, it hasn't been Duncan. And whatever rings he wins from here on out will most likely be the same.

Yet here come all the Duncan Stans out of the woodwork saying crazy sh*t like Duncan has an argument for GOAT over Michael Jordan, or even on par.

Come on, man! :roll: :facepalm

[IllegalD]

Bryant is a fringe top ten all-time player, with the most overinflated legacy in the history of the game. His greatest accomplishment is his remarkable longevity as a top five player. But, contrary to what the media and certain biased fans alike would have us believe with their revisionist history, he was never the best player in the game for an extended stretch and it was never his league, so to speak, the way it was Jordan's or O'Neal's or Duncan's.

Yeah sure. Not surprising that a Rockets fan spews bs like this.

20 years from now ask people who the first player that comes to mind when they think of the 2000s era is (2000-2010).... :confusedshrug:

I guarantee you it WONT be Duncan. :roll:

[kurple]

biggest failures in sports even with all the injuries? i guess a nuggets fan would be the one to make that call
one of the easiest things in the world is to come up with excuses


injuries happens to every team

[kurple]

Yeah right. That 2013 Lakers team was so "stacked" that a 35 year old Kobe in his 17th season had to have one of his GOAT regular seasons of all time, and one of the GOAT regular seasons for a player in his 17th season, putting up crazy numbers, hitting multiple game winners and straight up carrying his team just to get them into the playoffs.
and theeeere it is

maybe that whole situation would have gone better if Kobe was more of a teamplayer? maybe his Achillies wouldnt give up if he hadnt forced him to play and do to much on the court

[Bernkastel]

It's just talking heads who do it for free.

[IllegalD]

and theeeere it is

maybe that whole situation would have gone better if Kobe was more of a teamplayer? maybe his Achillies wouldnt give up if he hadnt forced him to play and do to much on the court

Thanks for proving youre a sh*ttalker that didn't even watch the games. :applause:

[rmt]

Please tell me when the last time that Duncan had to exert that much energy in the regular season just to get his team to the playoffs. :confusedshrug:

A decade ago at best. Ever since then he's had the luxury of having a guy like Tony Parker who can carry the team during the regular season while Duncan takes his oldman rests. :crazysam:

Nobody is saying there's anything "bad" with being a roleplayer at 39.

What we're saying is that if Duncan makes another finals or wins another ring then it shouldn't be viewed in the same context as winning the ring as "the man" of the team (which many people view as whoever wins the Finals MVP). In his past 2 rings, it hasn't been Duncan. And whatever rings he wins from here on out will most likely be the same.

Yet here come all the Duncan Stans out of the woodwork saying crazy sh*t like Duncan has an argument for GOAT over Michael Jordan, or even on par.

Come on, man! :roll: :facepalm

The last time was THIS season. Who do you think was carrying them while Parker, Leonard, Splitter and Mills were dealing with injuries?

I don't see many Spurs fans claiming TD has an argument for GOAT - more likely Lebron/Kobe stans who want to rile up others. OTOH, other stans who insist that Duncan is JUST a role player are wrong. If he's a role player, they are ALL role players. Duncan is integral to their defense and the most consistent player. Over the past 2 seasons, Leonard - 130 games, Parker - 136 games and Duncan - 151 games (even with Pop resting him on some back-to-backs).

2006-07 Regular Season
Duncan 20 pts / 10.6 rebs / 3.4 asst / 2.4 blks 54.6%
Parker 18.6 pts / 5.5 asst 52%

2007 Playoffs
Duncan 22.2 pts / 11.5 rebs / 3.3 asst / 3.1 blks 52.1%
Parker 20.8 pts / 5.8 asst 48%

Now, who's assuming that whoever wins FMVP is the "man"? Seems to me that Duncan was the "man" in 2007 especially when considering his importance to the defense compared to Parker.

[konex]

It's not a bad thing at all. What many of us find annoying is Duncan's contributions getting exaggerated by folks who have an agenda to elevate him above OBVIOUSLY better players like Kobe historically.

[MJistheGOAT]

It's not a bad thing at all. What many of us find annoying is Duncan's contributions getting exaggerated by folks who have an agenda to elevate him above OBVIOUSLY better players like Kobe historically.

:facepalm

[nba_55]

Duncan>Kobe

[IllegalD]

The last time was THIS season. Who do you think was carrying them while Parker, Leonard, Splitter and Mills were dealing with injuries?

Check Duncan's Minutes Per Game averages for the last decade. Compare them to a guy like Kobe or LeBron. Then get back to me...

[retaxis]

Yeah sure. Not surprising that a Rockets fan spews bs like this.

20 years from now ask people who the first player that comes to mind when they think of the 2000s era is (2000-2010).... :confusedshrug:

I guarantee you it WONT be Duncan. :roll:
No people have lives believe it or not. They just look at ring count/finals mvp count and MVP count. No one respectable with a life would bother with stupid sh1t questions like that (not even on ISH)

[bizil]

It's easier being a role player on a consistent world title contender. Duncan at his peak was arguably the most unassuming and unselfish superstar of all time. So in a sense, I believe it's karma that guys like he and Dirk are still playing well in their late 30's. Their games were also built to last for a long time. Many of the legends don't really lose their skills to a great extent. They just can't dominate as consistently as they used to.

Timmy, Dirk, Stockton, Kareem, Mailman, Dr. J, and MJ all played well in their late 30s. I believe all of them were still All Star caliber players and among the top 10 in the league at their respective positions.

[TheMarkMadsen]

do i need to post a pic of dwight, nash, pau and artest?

and do we need to post what they did in the playoffs when Kobe was out?

[Jameerthefear]

and do we need to post what they did in the playoffs when Kobe was out?
I've had enough. You are ABOUT to get negged

[Dro]

It's not a bad thing at all. What many of us find annoying is Duncan's contributions getting exaggerated by folks who have an agenda to elevate him above OBVIOUSLY better players like Kobe historically.
:lol

[Hittin_Shots]

Why is playing within the game, dominating defensively but not forcing shots considered a 'role player' negatively. But dominating the ball and taking more shots than you should at a below average clip considered alpha and positive here in veteren stars....

[pauk]

Not a bad thing, but also not a thing that should boost you 1-3 steps above in the top 10 just because you won 1 more championship....

[Jacks3]

It's a bad thing when people want to move you into the top 5 all-time because your organization is good enough to continue to put up 60+ win seasons and win titles even after you become a shell of your former self and nothing more than a very good player. It's a bad thing when people want to elevate you because you have very mediocre games and your team can win by 30+... as we saw in the last game. It's a bad thing because people want to somehow give you extra credit because your organization was good enough to draft a 23-yr old who is the best perimeter defender since Pippen and already a top 10 player in the league, and has been the best player on that team BY FAR in the past two seasons. It's a bad thing when your team has been better for the past two seasons with you on the bench (seriously, his +/- have been negative) and people want to talk about him moving into the top 5 all-time.

Duncan is easily top 10 ever, but the ways in which people give him credit for things he doesn't deserve is nauseating.

[pauk]

Why is playing within the game, dominating defensively but not forcing shots considered a 'role player' negatively. But dominating the ball and taking more shots than you should at a below average clip considered alpha and positive here in veteren stars....

He couldnt do the latter (dominate, produce, be the best, be alpha, like he could before).... thats why he does the former (playing within the game, not forcing shots, but i dont know about that dominating defensively part) and he does that former because he luckily plays in a genius system that allows him (or anybody else like him) to exploit whatever he has left in the tank the best complementary way.... you put him in another random team where that is not equally possible and he will be forced only to do the latter, which he can not due to age and now he will start pondering about retiring immediately instead....

Thats why guys like Kobe are jelous of Duncan.... they are not jelous of literally him, but jelous of the system / team he plays for, a system that finds a way to exploit whatever ability you have to the best complementation for the team aswell and still most likely getting accolades (championships), while keeping you fresh, elongating your career.....

[bizil]

If u take Duncan off the Spurs, they DON'T win a ring this season. Or they wouldn't have won one last season. So even though he's clearly past his prime, he can still dominate games. He just can't do it consistently like he used to. So for all intents and purposes he's the Spurs 3rd best player at this point. And when u look at MOST TEAMS in the league, their third best player isn't as good as Timmy!

Now let's take Gary Payton or Mitch Richmond when they won a ring. Those teams would have won rings without either one. Hell I forget that they even won rings at times! When guys like Timmy, Kareem, or McAdoo win rings late in their careers, they are still VERY VALUABLE components to their teams.

[dubeta]

You're acting like he JUST became a role player.

The problem is he's been a role player since he was 31.

[TheMarkMadsen]

It's a bad thing when people want to move you into the top 5 all-time because your organization is good enough to continue to put up 60+ win seasons and win titles even after you become a shell of your former self and nothing more than a very good player. It's a bad thing when people want to elevate you because you have very mediocre games and your team can win by 30+... as we saw in the last game. It's a bad thing because people want to somehow give you extra credit because your organization was good enough to draft a 23-yr old who is the best perimeter defender since Pippen and already a top 10 player in the league, and has been the best player on that team BY FAR in the past two seasons. It's a bad thing when your team has been better for the past two seasons with you on the bench (seriously, his +/- have been negative) and people want to talk about him moving into the top 5 all-time.

Duncan is easily top 10 ever, but the ways in which people give him credit for things he doesn't deserve is nauseating.

great post

[T_L_P]

but i dont know about that dominating defensively part)

Well, you're the guy who thinks LeBron dominates enough defensively to have 10+ DPOYs already...so your take on what good defense is really can't be trusted.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9706176&postcount=42

[Wiltside]

Maybe Kobe would still be playing and maybe even winning, if he tried something similar.

More greats should learn from Duncan. Iverson for example


Winning another ring is still a big deal as he's still the leader on the team. He's just able to adapt to his surroundings more than most other ego-driven superstars

:applause:

[ILLsmak]

I've had enough. You are ABOUT to get negged

haha.

-Smak

[BigNBAfan]

You're acting like he JUST became a role player.

The problem is he's been a role player since he was 17.

we're talking about kobe not lebron

[rmt]

Check Duncan's Minutes Per Game averages for the last decade. Compare them to a guy like Kobe or LeBron. Then get back to me...

You need to check his minutes against those of his team mates since the claim is that he's just a role player. Even the 23 year old Leonard is under minute restriction.

2014-15 regular season
Leonard 31.8 minutes
Duncan 28.9
Parker 28.7

2013-14
Parker 29.4
Duncan 29.2
Leonard 29.1

2012-13
Parker 32.9
Leonard 31.2
Duncan 30.1

2011-12
Parker 32.1
Jefferson 28.5
Duncan 28.2

2010-11
Parker 32.4
Jefferson 30.4
Manu 30.3
Duncan 28.4 - really TD's only poor season

2009-10
Duncan 31.3
Jefferson 31.1
Parker 30.9

2008-09
Parker 34.1
Duncan 33.7
Roger Mason 30.4

2007-08
Duncan 34
Parker 33.5
Manu 31.1

2006-07
Duncan 34.1
Parker 32.5
Bowen 30

2005-06
Duncan 34.8
Parker 33.9
Bowen 33.6

[Harison]

There is nothing wrong to be a roleplayer at near 40 yrs old. Timmy is still a valuable piece of a perfectly oiled team-play.

That said, Timmy gets more credit by some when he deserves. Its not his leadership and intangibles which runs the team, its Pop, and has been for years. One great game and people speak of Timmy as Top5 All-time or even GOAT, one scrub game and its ignored. You cant have it both ways. TD does what he can, and we should all respect his contribution at this point of his career. Its also Pop's genius maximizing whatever Timmy has left in tank.

To me personally TD is Top10 All-time and regardless if he wins or loses another ring, his standing wont change. If anything, another ring this year would cement Pop as a GOAT coach, and one more FMVP would bump Kiwi's standing as well.

[CeltsGarlic]

Because insidehoops
:cheers:

[La Frescobaldi]

Maybe Kobe would still be playing and maybe even winning, if he tried something similar.

More greats should learn from Duncan. Iverson for example


Winning another ring is still a big deal as he's still the leader on the team. He's just able to adapt to his surroundings more than most other ego-driven superstars
It's another example why one can't compare Guards with Centers (or power forwards, if you insist). They are different positions.
Lots of centers play at a very high level for years and years... Olajuwan, Parrish, Duncan, are famous for it; Moses Malone, Jabbar, are synonymous with NBA longevity. Look at Shaq, dude played loong time.

Centers can play at a high level longer because they have inherent advantages; height, strength, but also far less sprinting and running. A guy who is 6'9"+ is going to dominate the court just by being on the court.
He can ruin an entire offense just by walking across the paint at the perfect time.

A Guard on defense is constantly running - especially if he is their offensive star. Any coach will try to wear out the other team's scoring threat by making him run and run and run on defense. Every coach does it.
Any guard that lasts 12 years as a starter in the NBA is a phenomenal athlete. Just the competition level for his spot in team selection is brutality itself.

[stanlove1111]

You're acting like he JUST became a role player.

The problem is he's been a role player since he was 31.

Popovich might slap you in your face if you said that to him. Even now to call him just a role player is ridiculous.

People who downplay Duncan's importance are screaming that they are stats obsessed and don't know shit about basketball. But that's Inside Hoops.

[stanlove1111]

If u take Duncan off the Spurs, they DON'T win a ring this season. Or they wouldn't have won one last season. So even though he's clearly past his prime, he can still dominate games. He just can't do it consistently like he used to. So for all intents and purposes he's the Spurs 3rd best player at this point. And when u look at MOST TEAMS in the league, their third best player isn't as good as Timmy!

.

Duncan has as much value to that team as anyone. I know kids in Inside Hoops don't understand the value to a team thing. But I agree with your point that having three players that good is something most don't.


To just say that the Spurs don't win it without Duncan is not much of a point you didn't go nearly far enough. Here is what you should have said. Without Duncan they don't go anywhere, most likely out in the first round year after year.

[Mr Exlax]

If you're the best, or one of the best, at your craft for sooooooo many years, it's almost impossible to accept that you're not the best, or one of the best, anymore. I don't consider it a bad thing, it's just not an easy thing to do.

[LAZERUSS]

The thing is, Duncan has no ego.

Watching that last game, he decided early on that his scoring was not needed. Instead, he made the intelligent passes, and set quality picks. And obviously he was a force on defense.

I suspect that, had that game been closer, he would have taken charge offensively.

In any case, it's all about winning for him. From his contract, to his unselfish play, and to his overall humility.

BTW, and speaking of humility...for those that watched his post-game interview after his 28 point, on 14-23 shooting, 11 rebound, 4 assist, game two...he said that he probably never played worse than his 4th quarter performance in that game.

I have never been a Spurs fan. In fact, I hated them in the 2000's. But I have grown to respect them, their coach, and their organization. The epitome of TEAM and CLASS.

[T_L_P]

Duncan has as much value to that team as anyone. I know kids in Inside Hoops don't understand the value to a team thing. But I agree with your point that having three players that good is something most don't.


To just say that the Spurs don't win it without Duncan is not much of a point you didn't go nearly far enough. Here is what you should have said. Without Duncan they don't go anywhere, most likely out in the first round year after year.

Yep. If you replaced Duncan this season with an actual role player (let's just say Chris Kaman), the Spurs probably get the #7 seed and proceed to get spanked by whoever they play against.

A role player doesn't hold that much importance to their team's success.

[T_L_P]

The thing is, Duncan has no ego.

Watching that last game, he decided early on that his scoring was not needed. Instead, he made the intelligent passes, and set quality picks. And obviously he was a force on defense.

I suspect that, had that game been closer, he would have taken charge offensively.

In any case, it's all about winning for him. From his contract, to his unselfish play, and to his overall humility.

BTW, and speaking of humility...for those that watched his post-game interview after his 28 point, on 14-23 shooting, 11 rebound, 4 assist, game two...he said that he probably never played worse than his 4th quarter performance in that game.

I have never been a Spurs fan. In fact, I hated them in the 2000's. But I have grown to respect them, their coach, and their organization. The epitome of TEAM and CLASS.

:cheers:

[Kblaze8855]

Duncan isnt a role player in the first place. Hes still the most productive player on his team. I dont think you are automatically a role player because your coach doesnt play anyone major minutes. Leonard is playing 30 minutes a game and hes like 23.

[Hittin_Shots]

He couldnt do the latter (dominate, produce, be the best, be alpha, like he could before).... thats why he does the former (playing within the game, not forcing shots, but i dont know about that dominating defensively part) and he does that former because he luckily plays in a genius system that allows him (or anybody else like him) to exploit whatever he has left in the tank the best complementary way.... you put him in another random team where that is not equally possible and he will be forced only to do the latter, which he can not due to age and now he will start pondering about retiring immediately instead....

Thats why guys like Kobe are jelous of Duncan.... they are not jelous of literally him, but jelous of the system / team he plays for, a system that finds a way to exploit whatever ability you have to the best complementation for the team aswell and still most likely getting accolades (championships), while keeping you fresh, elongating your career.....

He could chuck up many more shots if he wanted to and told them to feed him.. playing within the team to get the win, doing what needs to be done on the day is far better than that though. This 'system' spurs use is getting everyone involved and then using the players who are performing well at each role in that role. developing players is quite a lot easier when they get a chance to play and have oppurtunities when they play also...

[Hittin_Shots]

Duncan isnt a role player in the first place. Hes still the most productive player on his team. I dont think you are automatically a role player because your coach doesnt play anyone major minutes. Leonard is playing 30 minutes a game and hes like 23.

People that think he is a role have no idea about basketball.

[stanlove1111]

The thing is, Duncan has no ego.

Watching that last game, he decided early on that his scoring was not needed. Instead, he made the intelligent passes, and set quality picks. And obviously he was a force on defense.

.


People who don't know basketball have never understood this is exactly what makes Duncan so great. I remember even when he was in his prime he would have games where he scored 6 points or something and the Spurs would win but people would use it to say he was not that good. They could never understand that actually was another sign of how great he was. If the flow of the game was his teammates doing the damage he didn't feel the need to worry about his own stats and get in the way ( the anti Kobe ).

[salwan]

basically, kobe is wilt (statpadding primadonna acting tough. nobody wants to play with him).

duncan is russell (humble personality, loved by his teammates, respected by everyone, with an underrated on-court impact numbers don't always reflect. no drama, just 18 years of excellence)


:applause:

[LAZERUSS]

People who don't know basketball have never understood this is exactly what makes Duncan so great. I remember even when he was in his prime he would have games where he scored 6 points or something and the Spurs would win but people would use it to say he was not that good. They could never understand that actually was another sign of how great he was. If the flow of the game was his teammates doing the damage he didn't feel the need to worry about his own stats and get in the way ( the anti Kobe ).

I have three players, and if you want to include Walton it would be four...that just plain have made their TEAMs greater than the sum of their parts.

Russell, Magic, (Walton), and Timmy.

Russell, Magic, and Timmy are the three greatest "winners" in NBA history. Each of them took rosters that changed considerably to either best records, or the Finals, a title(s), or all three.

[Chadwin]

Duncan isnt a role player in the first place. Hes still the most productive player on his team. I dont think you are automatically a role player because your coach doesnt play anyone major minutes. Leonard is playing 30 minutes a game and hes like 23.

exactly

Look at Duncan's per 36 stats this year. His ORtg and DRtg are near prime levels this year.

[La Frescobaldi]

Duncan isnt a role player in the first place. Hes still the most productive player on his team. I dont think you are automatically a role player because your coach doesnt play anyone major minutes. Leonard is playing 30 minutes a game and hes like 23.

Over and over Duncan will come in off a substitution, and the other team forgets he's not Tiago Splitter or Bonner or whoever.... Diaw might be the worst, because they have to have their defense adjusted for his style........ and insantly they get savagely pulped for not paying attention. Parker & Ginobili know it, they use it, they destroy with it; even just using Duncan as a lure.

It's only 2 or 4 points but their entire defensive strategy has to change immediately. He's been doing this for years and he's a past master; he's wrecked lots of timeout strategies doing it.