Is Tim Duncan a top 5 player all-time?

[Springsteen]

Title.

[SouBeachTalents]

Original topic

[ninephive]

Yes, mathematically a top 3 player of All-Time is a top 5 player of All-Time.

[masonanddixon]

Top 10 fo sho, not top 5

[BuffaloBill]

Tim Duncan is a basketball player in the league

[Springsteen]

Original topic

Thanks.

[COnDEMnED]

In the 6,7,8 range. Not top 5

[kennethgriffin]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

[Real14]

:roll:

[BuffaloBill]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals





Long story short, Duncan is better than Kobe and it's not even close :applause:

[kennethgriffin]

Long story short, Duncan is better than Kobe and it's not even close :applause:

did you even bother reading the long story before making your short summary

:roll:

[TheBigVeto]

He's better than Kobe.

[kennethgriffin]

He's better than Kobe.


right now? maybe. but kobe had a career ending injury basically

all time? kobe is better

same success except both without their success duncan would fall to barely top 30 all time while kobe would still be top 15 even without a ring



duncans career is twice as dependent on his team accomplishments.

[kennethgriffin]

duncan is basically patrick ewing without any of his trophies


kobe without trophies is still on an elgin baylor level

ewing is around top 30

baylor is top 12-13


so if you throw 5 titles on baylor and 5 titles on ewing... baylor would obviously be higher than ewing still right?

[SouBeachTalents]

right now? maybe. but kobe had a career ending injury basically

all time? kobe is better

same success except both without their success duncan would fall to barely top 30 all time while kobe would still be top 15 even without a ring



duncans career is twice as dependent on his team accomplishments.

Kind of ironic since all you hear from Kobe stans is "rangz" and 5/7

[kennethgriffin]

Kind of ironic since all you hear from Kobe stans is "rangz" and 5/7


when a player is tied in rings. then the tie breaker of "what they did minus the rings" comes into play


obviously when its some hair transplant insecure f*ggot being compared to kobe. 5>2 pretty much settles it

but if however that ring chasing colluder tied up 5 to 5...then the mouth breathing ape can use his triple doubles and stat padded numbers to be in the discussion

[kennethgriffin]

if both lebron and kobe both had 0 rings. i'd have no problem putting lebron over kobe all time for just his output on box scores.. since thats all 2 loser scumbag bummy rejects could possibly be judged on

like a tmac/iverson debate

ya know?

so in that sense yeah sure


but success is the measurement. stats are the tie breaker



so kobe and duncan might be tied in success. but kobe sh*ts on duncan in terms of stats

[TheBigVeto]

right now? maybe. but kobe had a career ending injury basically



Then, now and forever.

[mrpuente]

Kobe and Duncan are not tied in success. If you're an owner and know what you know now you'll choose Duncan 100% of the time.

[Castor Troy]

How did a question about whether or not Duncan is top 5 become a slagging competition involving Kobe? FFS!

[LEFT4DEAD]

when a player is tied in rings. then the tie breaker of "what they did minus the rings" comes into play


obviously when its some hair transplant insecure f*ggot being compared to kobe. 5>2 pretty much settles it

but if however that ring chasing colluder tied up 5 to 5...then the mouth breathing ape can use his triple doubles and stat padded numbers to be in the discussion
Hmm lets see, a chucker who cant lead his team to the playoffs on his own or a guy who guarantees a playoffs spot since his rookie year and multiple championship no matter which teammates he has?
oohhh man thats a tough one, help me over here... :banghead:

[el_locoteee]

Hmm lets see, a chucker who cant lead his team to the playoffs on his own or a guy who guarantees a playoffs spot since his rookie year and multiple championship no matter which teammates he has?
oohhh man thats a tough one, help me over here... :banghead:

To the lottery actually.

[pauk]

Not on my list.

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Magic

Are players who not only got more accolades but were more prominent.

[kurple]

This is the top4 IMO

Jordan
KAJ
Russell
Duncan

after that

Shaq
Magic
Wilt
Bird
Hakeem
Kobe

[kurple]

Not on my list.

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Russell
Magic

Are players who not only got more accolades but were more prominent.
wilt winning so little should matter

also Magic playing alongside Kareem (not sayng duncan hasnt had great teammates) and lack of defense

[DMV2]

I think he should be.

People just don't want to break up the Big 6(MJ,KAJ,Wilt,Russ,Magic,Bird). It understandable when you consider their impact on the game. Wilt and Russell- the pioneers, first superstars of the game. KAJ- most decorated player, all-time total record holder. Magic and Bird put the game in mainstream prime time. MJ- the GOAT, made the league a world wide phenomenon and legit corporation.

You take all of that away and just look at numbers, accolades, leadership, etc...Duncan is definitely Top 5. Never played with another Top 10, hell, Parker and Manu aren't even Top 50 all-time.

[swagga]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

this man is in pain, seeing duncan continue with the same productivity as kobe is reduced to seeking attention on twitter. I feel you bro, lets cry together

http://media.giphy.com/media/dyTWBF7oOkmNa/giphy.gif
http://media.giphy.com/media/3dcL6qjP8FuVy/giphy.gif
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http://media.giphy.com/media/2TJ0IZcPYNlm/giphy.gif

[DMV2]

when a player is tied in rings. then the tie breaker of "what they did minus the rings" comes into play


obviously when its some hair transplant insecure f*ggot being compared to kobe. 5>2 pretty much settles it

but if however that ring chasing colluder tied up 5 to 5...then the mouth breathing ape can use his triple doubles and stat padded numbers to be in the discussion
Kobe only played 4 full games, 10 minutes in another and missed one in the 2000 Finals. He didn't even deserved that one.

[Dresta]

duncan is basically patrick ewing without any of his trophies


kobe without trophies is still on an elgin baylor level

ewing is around top 30

baylor is top 12-13


so if you throw 5 titles on baylor and 5 titles on ewing... baylor would obviously be higher than ewing still right?
:biggums:


btw: Duncan>Kobe in accolades and impact. Can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to try and say Kobe was as good a defender as Duncan, jeez...

[T_L_P]

I think he should be.

People just don't want to break up the Big 6(MJ,KAJ,Wilt,Russ,Magic,Bird). It understandable when you consider their impact on the game. Wilt and Russell- the pioneers, first superstars of the game. KAJ- most decorated player, all-time total record holder. Magic and Bird put the game in mainstream prime time. MJ- the GOAT, made the league a world wide phenomenon and legit corporation.

You take all of that away and just look at numbers, accolades, leadership, etc...Duncan is definitely Top 5. Never played with another Top 10, hell, Parker and Manu aren't even Top 50 all-time.
:bowdown:

[StephHamann]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0



a) Kobe has basically as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )





"i thought it was a mistake actually, i saw 81 and i was like nah thats not right. i thought it was a typo definitely a typo. but i was amazed. people dont even give the 60 points the credit it deserves. or how hard it is to score 40. that doesnt get the credit it deserves. but to hear someone do 81 is above and beyond anything i could ever imagine." - Tim Duncan






and before people argue defense:

Kobe Bryant = 9 time first team all defense ( can make G/G )
Tim Duncan = 8 time first team all defense ( can make F/F/C ... literally had 17 more chances to make it )



and before people argue winning:

Kobe Bryant 4-2 career playoff series record vs Tim Duncan




and before people argue MVPs:

Tim Duncan and Steve Nash = 2
Kobe Bryant and Derrick Rose = 1


and before people argue finals MVP's:

playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )





common people. duncans an all time great. hes a legendary team mate. maybe the best PF ever. who knows. but hes no Kobe Bryant. never was.



and if you need one more piece of evidence. from duncans own coach during both mens primes back in 2005-06


"i think hes the most talented player on both ends of the floor" - Gregg Popovich ( referring to Kobe Bryant )




8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

[r15mohd]

8 popovich/robinson 22/11/3 avrey/vinny/elliott/jackson/person
99 popovich/robinson 16/10/3 avrey/elliott/ellie/jackson/kerr/kersey/daniels
00 popovich/robinson 18/10/2 avery/ellie/porter/jackson/rose/daniels/elliott
01 popovich/robinson 15/9/2 anderson/daniels/elliott/rose/porter/avery/ferry
02 popovich/robinson 13/8/2 parker/smith/rose/daniels/bowen/porter/jackson
03 popovich/parker 15/5/3 robinson/ginobili/jackson/rose/bowen/smith/willis
04 popovich/parker 15/6/3 ginobili/hedo/rasho/rose/bowen/horry/mercer
05 popovich/parker 17/6/4 ginobili/glen/bruce/brent/rose/nazr/horry/beno
06 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/bowen/nazr/brent/exel/horry/beno
07 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/white/bowen/horry/beno
08 popovich/parker 19/6/3 ginobili/finley/barry/bowen/oberto/bonner/vaughn
09 popovich/parker 22/7/3 ginobili/mason/gooden/finley/hill/bonner/bowen
10 popovich/parker 16/6/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/blair/mason/mcdeyes/finley
11 popovich/parker 18/7/3 ginobili/hill/jefferson/neal/blair/mcdeyes/green
12 popovich/parker 18/8/3 ginobili/mills/neal/blair/splitter/jefferson/green
13 popovich/parker 20/8/3 Leonard/ginobili/green/splitter/neal/jackson/diaw
14 popovich/parker 17/6/2 Leonard/ginobili/marco/mills/diaw/green/splitter
15 popovich/parker 15/5/2 Leonard/ginobili/green/marco/diaw/splitter/mills

always*

1. legendary coach
2. top 50 all time team mate*
3. stacked roster


5 titles/6 finals




while kobe bryant


1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

dont you all love when Kenneth lists out so many players on other teams, and never any credit to those on Laker squads? :lol :lol :lol you are beyond delusional...but an "A" for the consistent effort behind Kobe, you are truly his #1 fan, no doubting that! :rolleyes:

ohh btw, Gasol is equal (if not better) to what David Robinson was in those Spurs/TD years, as well as the same impact to those Parker/Ginobili years too.

[FillJackson]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425

Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120


Tim Duncan has had 39 20+ rebound games. Kobe has had zero.

[JtotheIzzo]

Tim Duncan is all time great, he is not immortal.

The top six are immortal

Over time Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Bran might make the jump to immortal, but for now they are all time great.

sometimes legacies age like wine, so be patient Spurs homers, there might just be positives in future comparisons.

[Optimus Prime]

If Duncan wins another ring and Kobe doesn't, then yes.

If not, then no.

[Optimus Prime]

Tim Duncan is all time great, he is not immortal.

The top six are immortal

Over time Kobe, Shaq, Duncan and Bran might make the jump to immortal, but for now they are all time great.

sometimes legacies age like wine, so be patient Spurs homers, there might just be positives in future comparisons.

Kobe is the best Laker ever, even Magic (and many other all-time greats) has admitted that, yet somehow Magic is higher on the all-time list? :wtf:

And Beta Bran is not Top 10. Super easy path to the Finals, 2/5, epic choke jobs, colluding to always play in the worst conference with a stacked team, The Decision, etc.

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

Kobe >= Duncan >>> Beta Bran and it will always remain that way unless something amazing happens and Beta Bran completely changes after 30.

:kobe:

[kurple]

Magic is too nice to say he's the greatest Laker of all time

it would destroy Kobe

[kurple]

You could argue that West, Shaq and Kareem are greater lakers

[r15mohd]

Kobe is the best Laker ever, even Magic (and many other all-time greats) has admitted that, yet somehow Magic is higher on the all-time list? :wtf:

And Beta Bran is not Top 10. Super easy path to the Finals, 2/5, epic choke jobs, colluding to always play in the worst conference with a stacked team, The Decision, etc.

https://cdn1.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DTd63EvRSYxgtfhBTnEyTNJPV1A=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn0.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/3630642/Finals-Paths.0.png

Kobe >= Duncan >>> Beta Bran and it will always remain that way unless something amazing happens and Beta Bran completely changes after 30.

:kobe:

I never believed when he said that.

Kareem - greatest overall C
Magic - PG, if not the 2nd best

both are better Lakers. Kobe has the polarizing image to somehow say he's best, but he isn't tbh

[r15mohd]

You could argue that West, Shaq and Kareem are greater lakers

completely forgot about West...he's definitely up there. even Shaq has the bid since he's the most dominant player to ever step foot in this league.

[IllegalD]

completely forgot about West...he's definitely up there. even Shaq has the bid since he's the most dominant player to ever step foot in this league.

Funny...

But literally every single Laker great (with the exception of Wilt, 'cause he dead...) EVERYONE has said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time.

:roll: @ you even bringing up West. Who's 1-7 in the Finals (imagine Kobe with that record, and what would your opinion be of him)

Exactly. Go suck off MJ's statute, b*tch. Anyone with an MGay avatar should not be giving any opinions about Kobe. :applause:

[CJ Mustard]

:oldlol: Greatest Laker ever. Kobe's the 4th greatest Laker ever AT BEST.

Magic, Kareem, Shaq >>>>>>>>>

[Stringer Bell]

You actually believe that Magic really thinks that Kobe is greater than him? Or that he really means it when he says Jordan is the greatest ever, and better/greater than him?

Magic and most, if not all, of the legends probably think they're the best and greatest ever.

Some are just too-PC to admit it and want to appear humble.

I remember Jordan in his last year saying in an interview that it was a "false" statement to say that he's the greatest ever, because he never played against legends of the past.

Yeah right, like he actually meant it lol

[r15mohd]

Funny...

But literally every single Laker great (with the exception of Wilt, 'cause he dead...) EVERYONE has said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time.

:roll: @ you even bringing up West. Who's 1-7 in the Finals (imagine Kobe with that record, and what would your opinion be of him)

Exactly. Go suck off MJ's statute, b*tch. Anyone with an MGay avatar should not be giving any opinions about Kobe. :applause:


feeling inferior, a bit threatened...are we?!? :lol


Magic is just throwing some rhetoric out for the stans, like yourself, to keep you all amused.

Kobe wishes he could amount to Kareem's resume, let alone Magic's:

Magic - 9 finals, 5 rings, 3 FMVP, 3 MVP

[Springsteen]

Wait...



Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )

1997 - no legendary coach
1998 - no legendary coach
1999 - no legendary coach
2000 ( had all 3 )
2001 - no stacked roster*
2002 - no stacked roster*
2003 - no stacked roster
2004 ( had all 3 )
2005 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2006 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2008 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2009 - no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2010 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2011 - no top 50 all time sidekick
2012 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2013 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick
2014 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster
2015 - no legendary coach, no top 50 all time sidekick, no stacked roster

= 5 titles/7 finals

How is "HOF Pau" not a top 50 sidekick? Agenda much? :coleman:

[Mr Feeny]

Funny...

But literally every single Laker great (with the exception of Wilt, 'cause he dead...) EVERYONE has said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time.

:roll: @ you even bringing up West. Who's 1-7 in the Finals (imagine Kobe with that record, and what would your opinion be of him)

Exactly. Go suck off MJ's statute, b*tch. Anyone with an MGay avatar should not be giving any opinions about Kobe. :applause:

"Mgay"?
How old are you?:facepalm

[r15mohd]

Wait...



How is "HOF Pau" not a top 50 sidekick? Agenda much? :coleman:


called him out on it already...he refuses to acknowledge it to prop Kobe. in Kenneth's head, Kobe was a one-man show from beginning to end of his career, those that played alongside him were never really "better" :rolleyes:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I would no longer argue against it. This series vs. LAC has proven without a shadow of a doubt he is the ageless wonder.

Duncan's longevity only parallels KAJ's.

[swagga]

I would no longer argue against it. This series vs. LAC has proven without a shadow of a doubt he is the ageless wonder.

Duncan's longevity only parallels KAJ's.

karl malone, but he is not top 5 like duncan and kaj.

[SouBeachTalents]

called him out on it already...he refuses to acknowledge it to prop Kobe. in Kenneth's head, Kobe was a one-man show from beginning to end of his career, those that played alongside him were never really "better" :rolleyes:

Well he does have a point. I mean was Shaq really better than Kobe in 2000?

[ShawkFactory]

I don't know if at he best he's one of the 5 best ever, but if we're doing a draft of everyone at the start of their careers it would be tough to pick 5 guys over him. Basically 20 years of title contention...

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

karl malone, but he is not top 5 like duncan and kaj.
Good call. Malone's longevity was impressive as hell, but as you said, he wasn't the player/anchor on both ends KAJ and Duncan were. Along with the elite individual play, these guys are also champions and ultimately winners.

[IncarceratedBob]

Not even close to top 5, but definitely top 10.

[Pointguard]

Arguably top five accolade or accomplishment or achievement guy, but he's fighting top ten as a player in his prime and what he does on the court. His only (angle) argument would be all around player because he was rarely a league leader in any category and didn't excel in one category himself.

Best all around players in prime (guys very strong in five or more key categories). Points, Defense, Rebounds, Assist, Gamemenship/smarts, Unstoppable, Leadership, Make others better, Production, Domination):

Wilt
Russell
Oscar
West
from the previous era.


Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron

Were pretty clearly great in certain areas and well rounded 5 tool players players. I know I'm leaving out somebody. But they were better on the court to me than Duncan. For me its possible to have him a top 5 on the GOAT list but on my player list he's not top 10.

[IllegalD]

feeling inferior, a bit threatened...are we?!? :lol


Magic is just throwing some rhetoric out for the stans, like yourself, to keep you all amused.

Kobe wishes he could amount to Kareem's resume, let alone Magic's:

Magic - 9 finals, 5 rings, 3 FMVP, 3 MVP

Ah yes. The typical ISH "Only if your name is Magic or Kareem do your finals appearances count as legacy boosting" :roll:

Imagine if Kobe had lost 4 finals to get his 5 rings. What would you be saying about him then? :confusedshrug:

Ahhhh, ISH hypocrisy at it's finest.

Negged! And exposed as an insecure Jordan Stan. :applause:

BTW, you literally mentioned Jerry West (1-7 in the finals, 1 ring with Finals MVP Wilt) as being arguably a better Laker than Kobe. :roll:

The anti-Kobe butthurt is strong in this one...:kobe:

[r15mohd]

Ah yes. The typical ISH "Only if your name is Magic or Kareem do your finals appearances count as legacy boosting" :roll:

Imagine if Kobe had lost 4 finals to get his 5 rings. What would you be saying about him then? :confusedshrug:

Ahhhh, ISH hypocrisy at it's finest.

Negged! And exposed as an insecure Jordan Stan. :applause:

BTW, you literally mentioned Jerry West (1-7 in the finals, 1 ring with Finals MVP Wilt) as being arguably a better Laker than Kobe. :roll:

The anti-Kobe butthurt is strong in this one...:kobe:

then he'd be contending for all time greatest Laker...but he didn't so it belongs to Magic, then Kareem. stick to reality a little and not the hypothetical's or the what-ifs :no:

and going to the Finals and losing is legacy boosting in it's own right. it is certainly much better than being booted in earlier rounds or missing the playoffs. ironically, the logic Kobe stans prefer :confusedshrug:

[aau]

if he is then kobes top 4 all time

Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1



Tim Duncan:
30+ point games: 120
40+ point games: 5
50+ point games: 1
60+ point games: 0
70+ point games: 0
80+ point games: 0


a) Kobe has as many 40 point games as Duncan has 30 point games

b) Kobe has as many 60 point games as Duncan has 40 point games

c) Kobe has as many 80 point games as Duncan has 50 point games

d) Kobes 2 quarter record ( 55 ) is better than Duncans career high ( 53 )

e) Kobe has nearly as many consecutive 50+ point games ( 4 ) as Duncan has total 40+ point games in his career ( 5 )

f) Kobe has more consecutive 40+ point games ( 9 ) than Duncan has total 40+ point games in his entire lifespan ( 5 )


playoff averages

Duncan: (P/R/A)
1999 - 23/11/2 ( With HOF Robinson )
2003 - 24/15/5 ( with HOF Robinspn/Parker )
2005 - 23/12/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2007 - 22/11/3 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili )
2014 - 16/9/2 ( with HOF Parker/Ginobili and FMVP Leonard )

Kobe: (P/R/A)
2000 - 21/5/5 ( with HOF Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( with HOF shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( with HOF shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( with HOF pau )
2010 - 30/6/5 ( with HOF pau )



damn griff

don't kill'em . . . let'm breath a lil

[Magic 32]

Duncan is one year younger than Karl Malone was in 2004, yet what Duncan is doing in the first round is somehow GOAT material?

http://s4.postimg.org/b18p1jbe5/234234.png

http://s1.postimg.org/bw0h6ub8f/gsdfgs.png


And lets not talk about Kareem's 1986 playoff run at 39.

[ISHGoat]

damn griff

don't kill'em . . . let'm breath a lil

talking to yourself again?

[DMAVS41]

Duncan is one year younger than Karl Malone was in 2004, yet what Duncan is doing in the first round is somehow GOAT material?

http://s4.postimg.org/b18p1jbe5/234234.png

http://s1.postimg.org/bw0h6ub8f/gsdfgs.png


And lets not talk about Kareem's 1986 playoff run at 39.

For starters...look at opponent and then factor in Duncan being an elite defender on top of the numbers

[r15mohd]

For starters...look at opponent and then factor in Duncan being an elite defender on top of the numbers

http://m.memegen.com/zrk2od.jpg

[ShawkFactory]

Duncan is one year younger than Karl Malone was in 2004, yet what Duncan is doing in the first round is somehow GOAT material?

http://s4.postimg.org/b18p1jbe5/234234.png

http://s1.postimg.org/bw0h6ub8f/gsdfgs.png


And lets not talk about Kareem's 1986 playoff run at 39.
Look at the defense.

[Magic 32]

Look at the defense.

Karl played terrific defense in that series.

And his game 4 was every bit as good as Duncan's game 2.

[Magic 32]

For starters...look at opponent

http://giant.gfycat.com/EsteemedInfantileEquestrian.gif

[DMAVS41]

Karl played terrific defense in that series.

And his game 4 was every bit as good as Duncan's game 2.

The opponent was also much tougher for Duncan.

He's going up against Jordan and Blake with Splitter/Baynes doing little

[Magic 32]

The opponent was also much tougher for Duncan.

He's going up against Jordan and Blake with Splitter/Baynes doing little

You respect for Blake and Jordan is yours.

Shaq had a though time with the defense of the Rockets, while Karl was jumpshooting Ming and Taylor/Cato to death.

[lilandywiggins]

Duncan has a great case for top 5.

[Sarcastic]

38 year old Jordan > 38 year old Duncan. Jordan just didn't have the players around him at the time that Duncan has, nor the coach.

[aau]

:biggums:
btw: Duncan>Kobe in accolades and impact. Can't believe anyone would be stupid enough to try and say Kobe was as good a defender as Duncan, jeez...


must be them DPOY votes

kawhi leonard 1 - duncan zero

2013 - tony allen had more voting points
2012 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . igoudala had more
2011 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . grant hill had more - kobe more points
2010 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . kobe had more voting points
2009 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . kobe had more 1stP votes
2008 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . kobe more points - bowen more votes
2007 - Duncan 15 1stP votes .. . .. bowen 22 1stP votes - 2nd overall
2006 - Duncan 3 1stP votes . . . ... bowen 38 1stP votes - 2nd overall
2005 - Duncan 6 1stP votes . . . ... bowen 33 1stP votes - 2nd overall
2004 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . bowen 4 1stP votes 4th place finish
2003 - Duncan 2 1stP votes 4th . . garnett had 8 - bowen finished 7th
2002 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . kobe finished tied for 3rd overall w/deke
2001 - Duncan 14 1stP votes . . . . garnett 26 1stP votes - drob finished 5th
2000 - Duncan zero 1stP votes . . . kobe had 4 with a top 5 finish
1999 - Duncan 2 1stP votes 5th . .. drob had 3 - finished 4th
1998 - Duncan 4 1stP votes T5th .. bo outlaw and mookie blalock also had 4


over rated much

his own teammate dominated his defensive prime

[T_L_P]

Best all around players in prime (guys very strong in five or more key categories). Points, Defense, Rebounds, Assist, Gamemenship/smarts, Unstoppable, Leadership, Make others better, Production, Domination):

Some of these things just seem so...arbitrary.

Unstoppable? That's how you decide which players are the most effective ever? A word that has zero context and is completely subjective, not to mention almost exactly the same as "Domination"?

What is production, exactly? Is it your raw numbers? If so, it cancels out the need for individual breakdowns of the important stats (Pts, Ast, etc). Is it advanced stats?

Also, doing it like this doesn't factor in the degree of separation between some of the players in these made-up categories.

For example, Kobe has a prime AST% (using the raw numbers is an utterly pointless task) of 25.2%. Duncan's is 18.4. That's a difference of 6.8%.

However, Duncan's TRB% in his prime is 18.4%, whereas Kobe's is 8.3%, a 10.1% difference.

How about defense? What would the splits be there? I mean, it's undeniable that Duncan's defensive impact is at least twice Kobe's (though it's probably a lot more). Does that hold the same amount of weight as Kobe only being a slightly better Assist man?

[Bernkastel]

I have no problem with people putting him in their top five. He's around the six to eight range in my list.

[IllegalD]

then he'd be contending for all time greatest Laker...but he didn't so it belongs to Magic, then Kareem. stick to reality a little and not the hypothetical's or the what-ifs :no:

and going to the Finals and losing is legacy boosting in it's own right. it is certainly much better than being booted in earlier rounds or missing the playoffs. ironically, the logic Kobe stans prefer :confusedshrug:

So taking MORE finals appearances/losses to win the SAME amount of rings is somehow a POSITIVE?! :roll:

Next you're gonna' tell me that "man to man defense is overrated"... :facepalm

[r15mohd]

So taking MORE finals appearances/losses to win the SAME amount of rings is somehow a POSITIVE?! :roll:

Next you're gonna' tell me that "man to man defense is overrated"... :facepalm


this really needs no explaining...ask anyone at any level of sports if they'd rather be home watching Finals or be in it competing for it. to be in the Finals throughout, basically, your entire career is pretty astonishing on its own (Magic) 9 out of 12 years rather than be in it 7 out of 19 years is it, now?

whats better with the 5 ring count? you tell me :confusedshrug:

[Odinn]

The only players can be mentioned against Duncan's longevity are Kareem and Karl Malone.

Jordan was still a 20/6/4 guy at his 39.
You can talk about Duncan having a better team for playoff success. But Jordan was free and aimless enough to jack as many shots as he wished. It certainly helped his numbers. So, it can go either way. And we can talk about Jordan's breaks. Duncan, so far, played 87 more games and 6430 more minutes(nearly 2 prime seasons) compared to Jordan's entire career numbers. (rs+po)


Let's not speak about Duncan's positive situation about the coach and the system, totally. It can go either way with Jordan. And Kareem had Magic&Riley by his side. Karl Malone had Stockton&Sloan. (Sure, Stockton wasn't he used to be at that point but there was a proven system.)

Kareem has the edge on scoring. Duncan has the edge on rebounding and scoring. Karl Malone is somewhere between them. There can't be insulting any of them. They are only 3 (or 4, if you insist about Jordan) of a kind.

[Pointguard]

Some of these things just seem so...arbitrary.

Unstoppable? That's how you decide which players are the most effective ever? A word that has zero context and is completely subjective, not to mention almost exactly the same as "Domination"?
I said at least 5 categories because Duncan is not a heavy in one area category. I wasn't using those areas to say they were better, moreso, to make sure people understood why I included Russell and Shaq. Shaq and Wilt were in undeniable Domination categories. Durant could be in an unstoppable category. Duncan was already included so I don't get your point.


What is production, exactly? Is it your raw numbers? If so, it cancels out the need for individual breakdowns of the important stats (Pts, Ast, etc). Is it advanced stats? Once again I didn't use it as a dis qualifier, only as a way of getting in. Wilt/ Hakeem, Bird, Jordan, Kareem and Magic are great in this area.


Also, doing it like this doesn't factor in the degree of separation between some of the players in these made-up categories.

For example, Kobe has a prime AST% (using the raw numbers is an utterly pointless task) of 25.2%. Duncan's is 18.4. That's a difference of 6.8%.

However, Duncan's TRB% in his prime is 18.4%, whereas Kobe's is 8.3%, a 10.1% difference.

How about defense? What would the splits be there? I mean, it's undeniable that Duncan's defensive impact is at least twice Kobe's (though it's probably a lot more). Does that hold the same amount of weight as Kobe only being a slightly better Assist man?
Compare Duncan to other bigs. As a player Kobe is too different and gets in for a totally different set of reasons and played totally different. Duncan's play wasn't the greatest in any one area against his peers in his prime. So its gets a little hard to separate him. He was great with a mix of things. He was a high level rebounder, but people here rarely call KG a great rebounder.

Maybe you can help me out? In what way was Duncan, as a player only, at an all time great - better than the those I named outside of the guards.

[IllegalD]

this really needs no explaining...ask anyone at any level of sports if they'd rather be home watching Finals or be in it competing for it. to be in the Finals throughout, basically, your entire career is pretty astonishing on its own (Magic) 9 out of 12 years rather than be in it 7 out of 19 years is it, now?

whats better with the 5 ring count? you tell me :confusedshrug:

Your full of sh*t and you know it. :no:

No one gives Kobe props JUST for making 7 finals. GTFO. :roll:

[bizil]

Arguably top five accolade or accomplishment or achievement guy, but he's fighting top ten as a player in his prime and what he does on the court. His only (angle) argument would be all around player because he was rarely a league leader in any category and didn't excel in one category himself.

Best all around players in prime (guys very strong in five or more key categories). Points, Defense, Rebounds, Assist, Gamemenship/smarts, Unstoppable, Leadership, Make others better, Production, Domination):

Wilt
Russell
Oscar
West
from the previous era.


Kareem
Magic
Bird
Jordan
Hakeem
Shaq
Kobe
Lebron

Were pretty clearly great in certain areas and well rounded 5 tool players players. I know I'm leaving out somebody. But they were better on the court to me than Duncan. For me its possible to have him a top 5 on the GOAT list but on my player list he's not top 10.

Well said! GOAT wise, Timmy has a case. Because a GOAT list includes solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, and prime-peak value. But if we are judging strictly on peak value, I don't have Timmy in my top 10 either. My top ten players peak wise would be: (no particular order)

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Lebron
Kobe
Big O
Hakeem

After these guys, I think Timmy is more in the top 15-20 range peak wise. People need to realize that there is a difference between GOAT status and peak value-prime status.

[Odinn]

Peak to peak;
Kobe, LeBron and Magic "clearly" greater than Duncan?

Yeah. Sure. Right.

There is a reason why the dude is on my ignore list and I see his posts via quotes. Seems like he'll never able to get over some facts.

[T_L_P]

Well said! GOAT wise, Timmy has a case. Because a GOAT list includes solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, and prime-peak value. But if we are judging strictly on peak value, I don't have Timmy in my top 10 either. People need to realize that there is a difference between GOAT status and peak value-prime status.

03 Duncan has the:

-Most WinShares ever in a postseason
-2nd highest WS/48 for a title run
-2nd highest BPM for a title run
-Highest Net Rating for a title run

He had to be his team's primary scorer, playmaker, defensive anchor and leader; averaged 25/15/5/4 on a dog-slow team and played some of the greatest defense ever.

There aren't 10 better peaks.

[WallIn]

Tim is basically a winner from day 1. He never had a blip in his 18 year old career. That strengthens his claim as a top 5 player.

Listen, if he won a chip this year I'd put him at 5th without a second thought.

1.MJ
2.Russell
3.Kareem
4.Magic
5.Duncan

He'd dethrone Wilt imo.

[DonDadda59]

Timmy not having a DPOY on his mantle is one of the greatest tragedies in NBA History.

[DMAVS41]

Well said! GOAT wise, Timmy has a case. Because a GOAT list includes solo accolades, team accolades, numbers, longevity being great, and prime-peak value. But if we are judging strictly on peak value, I don't have Timmy in my top 10 either. My top ten players peak wise would be: (no particular order)

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Shaq
Magic
Bird
Lebron
Kobe
Big O
Hakeem

After these guys, I think Timmy is more in the top 15-20 range peak wise. People need to realize that there is a difference between GOAT status and peak value-prime status.


So much BS here...

[DMAVS41]

Timmy not having a DPOY on his mantle is one of the greatest tragedies in NBA History.

It really is. Dude is probably a top 5...definitely top 10 defensive player in NBA history.

[DMAVS41]

Depending on what happens the rest of the way in the playoffs...I might move Duncan up on my list.

Right now it's:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Lebron

Duncan isn't far from the number 2 spot on my list. It's hard to judge, but this kind of impact at this age...this many years in...playing elite ball from the jump...going to all 4 years in college...

It's remarkable. Way more remarkable than people on here tend to give it credit.

There is simply no basketball player I saw in my lifetime (didn't see Russell or Wilt) that was on a different tier in impact than Duncan other than MJ.

[bizil]

03 Duncan has the:

-Most WinShares ever in a postseason
-2nd highest WS/48 for a title run
-2nd highest BPM for a title run
-Highest Net Rating for a title run

He had to be his team's primary scorer, playmaker, defensive anchor and leader; averaged 25/15/5/4 on a dog-slow team and played some of the greatest defense ever.

There aren't 10 better peaks.





When it comes to big men, I'm taking Shaq, Wilt, Kareem, and Hakeem over Duncan peak wise. When it comes to perimeter guys, I'm taking MJ, Bird, Magic, Lebron, and Kobe over Duncan peak wise. For my 10th spot, I have Big O in there peak wise. I gotta show some love to some guys from the 60's who were SO AHEAD OF THEIR TIME!! Big O averaging all those triple doubles hold a lot of weight for me. But Duncan is certainly worthy of top 10 peak status.

[Dizzle-2k7]

hes top 2.. MJ and Duncan are both elite on both sides of the ball and extremely clutch, fearless, and competitive

if fisher never hits .04, and if manu never fouls dirk.. duncan has 7 rings right now (going on 8) and is undisputed GOAT

ehh.. top 2 is stilll cool tho

[Dizzle-2k7]

Depending on what happens the rest of the way in the playoffs...I might move Duncan up on my list.

Right now it's:

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Duncan
5. Kareem
6. Wilt
7. Bird
8. Shaq
9. Hakeem
10. Lebron


dis dude really has lebron* and hakeem* over kobe
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[bizil]

So much BS here...

How is what I wrote BS? GOAT wise (which is the most important list and gauge for the HOF), I said Duncan is a top five caliber player. So I'm giving Duncan MAJOR PROPS! I'm saying he's a top 5-7 GOAT kind of player. So for all of u bitching and moaning on here GET A GRIP!! GOAT is the most important list! And I think Duncan is a top five caliber player in that regard! Get off dude's dick!!

But peak wise, I think he's more of a top 15 kind of player. But of course u could argue him a top 10 peak wise. When it comes to centers, I have Wilt, Kareem, Shaq, and Hakeem over Duncan peak wise. And some may argue a Moses Malone or David Robinson over Duncan too. Duncan is a better defender than Moses was. But Moses was a more dominant scorer and a beast on the glass. Robinson was just as good of a defender and rebounder as Duncan. And also a more dominant scorer.

Peak value is STRICTLY about what happens on the court. It's not about awards or accolades. It's actually more about numbers and the talent you bring to the table.

[mehyaM24]

despite having the GOAT coach and multiple international GOATs, duncan is easily a top 10 player - could be argued as a top 5-7 player as well.

higher than kareem though? LMAO

[Timmy D for MVP]

Tim is not higher than: MJ, Russell, KAJ, Magic, Wilt right off the bat.

I can't really see him creeping into that top-5 unless he has a bonkers, throwback playoff run.

[Leroy Jetson]

If Duncan had gone to the Lakers as a rookie with a prime Shaq instead Of Kobe, they would probably win about 10 rings starting his rookie year. Duncan would have found a way to work with Shaq rather than getting him traded.

[Cold soul]

Top 10 for me not five around the same tier as Shaq, Kobe, Bird for me.

[Springsteen]

Tim is not higher than: MJ, Russell, KAJ, Magic, Wilt right off the bat.

I can't really see him creeping into that top-5 unless he has a bonkers, throwback playoff run.

You really would put Wilt over Duncan? :confusedshrug:

[raprap]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Russell
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Duncan
7. Wilt
8. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem/LeBron

[Lebron23]

Hell No.

Unlike Kareem who's stats remains the same after Magic was drafted by the Lakers in 1979. Duncan Stats went down in the mid 2000's. You needs to have a great stats and multiple rings as the best player to be consider as a top player 1-5 player of all time. He's currently no. 7 to 8.