Is Kobe the GOAT?

[Nick Young]

Yes or no?:confusedshrug:
http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/17736-kobe-dunk-on-dwight-howard.jpg
http://lakerholicz.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/kobe-bryant-five-championships.jpg
http://cfs8.blog.daum.net/image/30/blog/2008/11/08/16/26/49153f3deabb3%26filename%3Dlakers_toronto_kobe_bry ant_81_points.jpg
http://blogimages.thescore.com/tbj/files/2012/07/kobe-bryant-gold-medal.jpg
http://espn.go.com/i/editorial/2006/0519/photo/jordan_kobe_195.jpg
http://www.nbaloud.com/userimages/user1195_1174125328.jpg

[kennethgriffin]

its arguable

hes more all around skilled offensively than jordan and faced way more better players at his position
hes a better defender than magic and won with less help
hes had twice as long a career as larry bird
he won in a real era unlike russell/wilt
he has twice the individual dominance as duncan
had a better career than shaq
kareem won with way more help with a free trip to the finals an entire decade



its arguable that kobe is the most dangerous offensive player since the merger

and hes a top notch defender added onto his legendary success

he could be argued as goat player for sure.

[kennethgriffin]

and none of those other guys have a title without another top 50 player all time sidekick

kobe won 2 without one

[Prometheus]

top 5-10

[Dr Hawk]

jordan kareem hakeem duncan shaq lebron magic bird

I would take those guys over Kobe. I don't know about Russell or Wilt

[kennethgriffin]

top 5-10

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX13ZbLluPQ

[TaLvsCuaL]

ISH trolls are getting worse every day. Some time ago they were fun at times, and there were some originality.

[kennethgriffin]

jordan kareem hakeem duncan shaq lebron magic bird

I would take those guys over Kobe. I don't know about Russell or Wilt

now consider for a moment this isnt about absolute peaks


this is an all time ranking based on more than 1-2 seasons


theres absolutely no case for hakeem over kobe since kobes career even cut in half is better than olajuwons

just since shaq left kobe has

- same rings
- same mvps
- same finals mvps
- more 1st team all nbas
- more 1st team all defenses
- more starting allstar selections
- more 40/50/60/70/80 point games



so even if you take away 3 of kobes rings and nominations from 98-04 kobes still above hakeem


:lol


and thats assuming kobes peak wasnt impressive. but it was. and i can see youre just favoring bigs in a biased way like some portland franchise that goes nowhere

[Bernkastel]

He might be in the running for the GOAT Kobe.

[Prometheus]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AX13ZbLluPQ

u mad. im rite. rather be rite than mad

[lilandywiggins]

No

[BuffaloBill]

Somewhere in the 9-15 range

[Prometheus]

and Kenny, if it makes u feel any better, I still rank Kobe above LeBron all time.

[kennethgriffin]

everyone is so quick to dismiss kobe... cept when jordan listed all the guys he'd wanna play 1 on 1... jordan said kobe was the only guy he'd lose to

and jordan also said kobe is the best player all time asside from himself


larry - "kobe is the 1 player i'd want as a team mate"

magic - "kobe is the greatest laker all time"

shaq - "kobe is the best laker ever"

riley - "kobes right there with jordan"

george karl - "kobe is top 3 all time"

jerry west - "kobe is a once in a lifetime player"

PJ - "kobe is more skilled than jordan"


its obvious kobe is in the top 5 all time at worst

[greatest-ever]

Hell no. And he's not top 10 unless you go by "ringzzz" and "81 points!!".

[Budadiiii]

Nah, not even close. Not even close to being close.

[3ball]

if you have to make a thread asking the question, then he's not

[kennethgriffin]

Hell no. And he's not top 10 unless you go by "ringzzz" and "81 points!!".


because winning 5 "riingzzzz" with a 27/6/5 combined playoff average and scoring the most points ever in the post merger era is common place and overrated

right?

you do realize kobes done more than that right? hes the all time record holder for

- 1st team all nbas
- all nba teams
- 1st team all defensive selections
- consecutive allstar selections


among many other major things

[Prometheus]

- 1st team all nbas
- all nba teams
- 1st team all defensive selections
- consecutive allstar selections


These criteria are weak AF. You sound like an idiot when you use these for your arguments. Real talk.

[Chief Keef]

its obvious kobe is in the top 5 all time at worst


He's barely top 5 since the 90s.



MJ, Duncan, Shaq, and Bron over Kobe are all no brainers

[Dr Hawk]

now consider for a moment this isnt about absolute peaks


this is an all time ranking based on more than 1-2 seasons


theres absolutely no case for hakeem over kobe since kobes career even cut in half is better than olajuwons

just since shaq left kobe has

- same rings
- same mvps
- same finals mvps
- more 1st team all nbas
- more 1st team all defenses
- more starting allstar selections
- more 40/50/60/70/80 point games



so even if you take away 3 of kobes rings and nominations from 98-04 kobes still above hakeem


:lol


and thats assuming kobes peak wasnt impressive. but it was. and i can see youre just favoring bigs in a biased way like some portland franchise that goes nowhere

Hakeem through 17 regular seasons with the Rockets:

22.5/11.4/2.5/1.8/3.1 109 ORtg 98 DRtg

He elevated his game in PO's:

14 PO's with the Rockets --> 26.6/11.4/3.3/1.7/3.3 112 ORtg 101 DRtg

He was elite in offense and he is one of the greatest defensive anchors of all time. He has huge prime, huge peak, huge 2 way player and huge longevity.

He lacked better teammates, yet he managed to win 2 rings

You say "more 1st all defenses". You think Kobe has had more impact on defense than Hakeem?

[imdaman99]

No. He lost his chance at goathood in the 2008 NBA Finals. Just like Lebron did in 2011 Finals. I have him in the 5-8 range which is pretty damn great.

[DMV2]

Kobe is barely Top 10.

MJ-KAJ-WILT-RUSS-BIRD-MAGIC your Big 6
Duncan #7
Shaq #8

#9 to #11 is between Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem.

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe is barely Top 10.

MJ-KAJ-WILT-RUSS-BIRD-MAGIC your Big 6
Duncan #7
Shaq #8

#9 to #11 is between Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem.

Why exactly would LeBron not battle it out with Bird and Magic? And why do they have to be above Duncan and Shaq?

We need to be open to newer Rankings, 2015... Bird and Magic aren't a lock in the top 5 anymore with Timmy/Shaq/Bron.

[Thorpesaurous]

My favorite simple model for breaking down is Multiple Titles and Multiple MVPs (I've mentioned this before). There's not many guys who's pulled that off.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron. (I'm not sure where I stand with Mikan on this, it's just too different).

Anyway, just happens that that lines up pretty great with a top tier. Within that it ranks out in a number of ways.

After that you have another tier of guys with 1 title and multiple MVPs, or multiple titles and a single MVP. They seem to pretty comfortably make up a second tier for me. Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, and a few others.

That's just how I look at it. And how you want to split up those tiers for me is sort of preference, era specific, and a few other things.

[Prometheus]

Why exactly would LeBron not battle it out with Bird and Magic? And why do they have to be above Duncan and Shaq?

We need to be open to newer Rankings, 2015... Bird and Magic aren't a lock in the top 5 anymore with Timmy/Shaq/Bron.

There's honestly no reason for Magic and Bird to be a lock for ranking above Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, or Shaq. At all. It's a combination of nostalgia for those who were there, and impressionability to those who weren't. When you really look into how it all went down...

Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe are all in the same tier, with LeBron just a little bit of success left to get there.

[Nick Young]

if you have to make a thread asking the question, then he's not
It was a rhetorical question.

[Nick Young]

My favorite simple model for breaking down is Multiple Titles and Multiple MVPs (I've mentioned this before). There's not many guys who's pulled that off.

Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, Lebron. (I'm not sure where I stand with Mikan on this, it's just too different).

Anyway, just happens that that lines up pretty great with a top tier. Within that it ranks out in a number of ways.

After that you have another tier of guys with 1 title and multiple MVPs, or multiple titles and a single MVP. They seem to pretty comfortably make up a second tier for me. Kobe, Shaq, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, and a few others.

That's just how I look at it. And how you want to split up those tiers for me is sort of preference, era specific, and a few other things.
Kobe deserves atleast 3-4 MVPs. It's not his fault that award is only given to the media favorite. Don't forget, throughout much of his career, the media and Kobe did not have the best relationship. They took it out on him when it came to MVP voting. Nash has 2 MVPs. Derek Rose got an MVP for putting up 20 points a game XD Those men have never even been to the NBA finals. It's a joke award that doesn't mean as much as it once did.

[ImKobe]

Unquestionably.

Magic says he's better than him
Shaq says he's better
he's the only player Jordan thinks can beat him

No matter how much you ISH trolls try to convince me otherwise, I think I'd rather listen to the all-time greats rather than your sorry asses that work in McDonalds.

[kennethgriffin]

No. He lost his chance at goathood in the 2008 NBA Finals. Just like Lebron did in 2011 Finals. I have him in the 5-8 range which is pretty damn great.


how is losing to a colluded ring chasing 4 future HOF team bad for his legacy? especially when he redeemed himself vs that same team 2 years later

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe is barely Top 10.

MJ-KAJ-WILT-RUSS-BIRD-MAGIC your Big 6
Duncan #7
Shaq #8

#9 to #11 is between Kobe, LeBron, Hakeem.


bird has no case over kobe what so ever

kobe has twice the career.. period


2 Larry Birds don't equal 1 Kobe Bryant
and i love larry bird. but....



Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1


Larry Bird:
30+ point games: 223
40+ point games: 47
50+ point games: 4
60+ point games: 1
70+ point games:
80+ point games:

Larry Bird x2
30+ point games: 446 (+21)
40+ point games: 94 (-25)
50+ point games: 8 (-16)
60+ point games: 2 (-4)
70+ point games: 0 (-1)
80+ point games: 0 (-1)



------------------------------------------

Kobe Bryant


13 times top 10 in Points Per Game
12 times top 5 in Points Per Game
4 times top 2 in Points Per Game
2 times leader in Points Per Game


2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)



Larry Bird

6 times top 10 in Points Per Game
4 times top 5 in Points Per Game
1 time top 2 in Points Per Game
0 times league leader in Points Per Game

1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)


Larry Bird x2


1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)
+
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)

12 times top 10 in Points Per Game (-1)
8 times top 5 in Points Per Game (-4)
2 time top 2 in Points Per Game (-2)
0 times league leader in Points Per Game (-2)



---------------------------------



Kobe Bryant


27 time All NBA/Defense
20 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)



Larry Bird

13 time All NBA/Defense
9 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)




Larry Bird x2

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
+
1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

26 time All NBA/Defense (-1)
18 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team (-2)





------------------------------------


oh yeah and 5 out of 7 > 3 out of 5
both have 2 Fmvps

all bird has on kobe is 2 more regular season mvps. ( and i don't even feel a need to explain why that award is bogus. even if it were legit i dont think it would be enough to over come at this point

[Nick Young]

how is losing to a colluded ring chasing 4 future HOF team bad for his legacy? especially when he redeemed himself vs that same team 2 years later
Especially when Bynum didn't even play and Ariza was injured.:roll:

Even with a one legged Bynum it was enough for Mamba to take out the 4 HOFer team.

[Prometheus]

bird has no case over kobe what so ever

kobe has twice the career.. period


2 Larry Birds don't equal 1 Kobe Bryant
and i love larry bird. but....



Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1


Larry Bird:
30+ point games: 223
40+ point games: 47
50+ point games: 4
60+ point games: 1
70+ point games:
80+ point games:

Larry Bird x2
30+ point games: 446 (+21)
40+ point games: 94 (-25)
50+ point games: 8 (-16)
60+ point games: 2 (-4)
70+ point games: 0 (-1)
80+ point games: 0 (-1)



------------------------------------------

Kobe Bryant


13 times top 10 in Points Per Game
12 times top 5 in Points Per Game
4 times top 2 in Points Per Game
2 times leader in Points Per Game


2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)



Larry Bird

6 times top 10 in Points Per Game
4 times top 5 in Points Per Game
1 time top 2 in Points Per Game
0 times league leader in Points Per Game

1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)


Larry Bird x2


1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)
+
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)

12 times top 10 in Points Per Game (-1)
8 times top 5 in Points Per Game (-4)
2 time top 2 in Points Per Game (-2)
0 times league leader in Points Per Game (-2)



---------------------------------



Kobe Bryant


27 time All NBA/Defense
20 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)



Larry Bird

13 time All NBA/Defense
9 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)




Larry Bird x2

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
+
1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

26 time All NBA/Defense (-1)
18 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team (-2)





------------------------------------


oh yeah and 5 out of 7 > 3 out of 5
both have 2 Fmvps

all bird has on kobe is 2 more regular season mvps. ( and i don't even feel a need to explain why that award is bogus. even if it were legit i dont think it would be enough to over come at this point

Because there's really no reason to analyze how they actually played the game. On the court. And what that's worth. Just look at the accolades - that's it.

And I'm not even saying Bird > Kobe for sure. It's a tough call. But your argument is invalid.

[lilandywiggins]

Why do obvious troll threads like this even make it to page 3?

[DMV2]

Why exactly would LeBron not battle it out with Bird and Magic? And why do they have to be above Duncan and Shaq?

We need to be open to newer Rankings, 2015... Bird and Magic aren't a lock in the top 5 anymore with Timmy/Shaq/Bron.Personally I think Duncan should be Top 5. http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11285850&postcount=26 But people will always credit Bird and Magic for putting the league in mainstream prime time. Similar to how Wilt's records will never be broken. Or how Russell's 11 rings will never be matched.

If you just look at numbers, accolades, supporting casts, etc...not where the league is/were, both Duncan and Shaq are definitely Top 5.

[ImKobe]

He's barely top 5 since the 90s.



MJ, Duncan, Shaq, and Bron over Kobe are all no brainers

lol **** outta here with this bullshit

Duncan won 3 rings in a weak era, and twice he wasn't even the FMVP, and you can make a case that Manu was the guy that really put them over the top in 2005.

[ralph_i_el]

KennyG
http://replygif.net/thumbnail/951.gif

[ShawkFactory]

bird has no case over kobe what so ever

kobe has twice the career.. period


2 Larry Birds don't equal 1 Kobe Bryant
and i love larry bird. but....



Kobe Bryant:
30+ point games: 425
40+ point games: 119
50+ point games: 24
60+ point games: 5
70+ point games: 1
80+ point games: 1


Larry Bird:
30+ point games: 223
40+ point games: 47
50+ point games: 4
60+ point games: 1
70+ point games:
80+ point games:

Larry Bird x2
30+ point games: 446 (+21)
40+ point games: 94 (-25)
50+ point games: 8 (-16)
60+ point games: 2 (-4)
70+ point games: 0 (-1)
80+ point games: 0 (-1)



------------------------------------------

Kobe Bryant


13 times top 10 in Points Per Game
12 times top 5 in Points Per Game
4 times top 2 in Points Per Game
2 times leader in Points Per Game


2000-01 NBA 28.5 (4)
2001-02 NBA 25.2 (6)
2002-03 NBA 30.0 (2)
2003-04 NBA 24.0 (4)
2004-05 NBA 27.6 (2)
2005-06 NBA 35.4 (1)
2006-07 NBA 31.6 (1)
2007-08 NBA 28.3 (2)
2008-09 NBA 26.8 (3)
2009-10 NBA 27.0 (4)
2010-11 NBA 25.3 (5)
2011-12 NBA 27.9 (2)
2012-13 NBA 27.3 (3)



Larry Bird

6 times top 10 in Points Per Game
4 times top 5 in Points Per Game
1 time top 2 in Points Per Game
0 times league leader in Points Per Game

1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)


Larry Bird x2


1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)
+
1981-82 NBA 22.9 (10)
1983-84 NBA 24.2 (7)
1984-85 NBA 28.7 (2)
1985-86 NBA 25.8 (4)
1986-87 NBA 28.1 (4)
1987-88 NBA 29.9 (3)

12 times top 10 in Points Per Game (-1)
8 times top 5 in Points Per Game (-4)
2 time top 2 in Points Per Game (-2)
0 times league leader in Points Per Game (-2)



---------------------------------



Kobe Bryant


27 time All NBA/Defense
20 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1998-99 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
1999-00 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
1999-00 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2000-01 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2001-02 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2002-03 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2003-04 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2004-05 NBA All-NBA (3rd)
2005-06 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2005-06 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2006-07 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2007-08 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2008-09 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2009-10 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-Defensive (1st)
2010-11 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2011-12 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
2011-12 NBA All-NBA (1st)
2012-13 NBA All-NBA (1st)



Larry Bird

13 time All NBA/Defense
9 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)




Larry Bird x2

1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)
+
1979-80 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1980-81 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1981-82 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1981-82 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1982-83 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1982-83 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1983-84 NBA All-Defensive (2nd)
1983-84 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1984-85 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1985-86 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1986-87 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1987-88 NBA All-NBA (1st)
1989-90 NBA All-NBA (2nd)

26 time All NBA/Defense (-1)
18 time All NBA/Defensive 1st team (-2)





------------------------------------


oh yeah and 5 out of 7 > 3 out of 5
both have 2 Fmvps

all bird has on kobe is 2 more regular season mvps. ( and i don't even feel a need to explain why that award is bogus. even if it were legit i dont think it would be enough to over come at this point
Let's just copy and paste retarded arguments from other retarded threads you've made. That'll convince people :oldlol:

[DMV2]

lol **** outta here with this bullshit

Duncan won 3 rings in a weak era, and twice he wasn't even the FMVP, and you can make a case that Manu was the guy that really put them over the top in 2005.
So Shaq and Kobe's 3 rings together also from weak era? :oldlol:

[Mr. Jabbar]

he has a good case, top 5 at worst

[kennethgriffin]

Because there's really no reason to analyze how they actually played the game. On the court. And what that's worth. Just look at the accolades - that's it.

And I'm not even saying Bird > Kobe for sure. It's a tough call. But your argument is invalid.


ok heres how they played





year they won / playoff points / rebounds / assists / great team mates


Kobe Bryant

2000 - 21/4/4 ( Shaq )
2001 - 29/7/6 ( Shaq )
2002 - 27/6/5 ( Shaq )
2009 - 30/5/5 ( Gasol )
2010 - 29/6/5 ( Gasol )




Larry Bird

1981 - 22/14/6 ( Parish/ Archibald/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1984 - 27/11/6 ( Parish/ Johnson/ Maxwell/ Mchale )
1986 - 26/9/8 ( Mchale/ Johnson/ Ainge/ Parish/ Walton )

[DMV2]

Kobe shouldn't even be credited for his 2000 ring cuz his missed nearly 2 games in that Finals series.

He got carried for his next two rings.

Beat a Dwight Howard and a bunch of D-leaguers. His one and only ring and F-MVP where he was truly the Man.

Stole Gasol's 2010 F-MVP. Saved by Artest.

[DMV2]

Also, nobdoy gets his ass kicked in the Finals like Kobe.

Demolished by the Pistons. Lost by nearly 40 points in 2008 Finals elimination game. Swept by Dirk and Dallas who were known as chokers prior to that series.

[ImKobe]

So Shaq and Kobe's 3 rings together also from weak era? :oldlol:

00 Blazers, 01 Spurs and 02 Kings are better than ANY team Spurs beat in 05, 07 and 14 Playoffs, fact.

[kennethgriffin]

Kobe shouldn't even be credited for his 2000 ring cuz his missed nearly 2 games in that Finals series.

He got carried for his next two rings.

Beat a Dwight Howard and a bunch of D-leaguers. His one and only ring and F-MVP where he was truly the Man.

Stole Gasol's 2010 F-MVP. Saved by Artest.


its stupid to assume the 2000 finals were the toughest matchup for the lakers


the 2000 WCF was the real nba finals.

portland had a waaaaaaay better team and won 66 games that year


kobe had 25 points, 11 rebounds, 7 assists and 4 blocks in game 7 ... MVP of the most important game of the season. down 15 in the 4th quarter

kobe had to save shaq from another choke job

and shaq choked in the finals in game 4 aswell... kobe saving the series with a magic johnson type effort at the game of 21...


how many guys that age have that kind of poise and alpha mentality under pressure


kobe earned his 2000 nba title ... period

[ArbitraryWater]

00 Blazers, 01 Spurs and 02 Kings are better than ANY team Spurs beat in 05, 07 and 14 Playoffs, fact.

Lmao like the 2001 Spurs were some grand team :roll:

Anyway, 2005 Pistons and all of their 2014 opponents minus the Blazers, match up.

[HOoopCityJones]

Nah, but he Top 7 doe.

[DMV2]

kobe earned his 2000 nba title ... period
nope. 4 full games. one 10 min game and missed one game.

that's like lebron for not showing up for game 4 of the 2011 finals.

[Cold soul]

There's honestly no reason for Magic and Bird to be a lock for ranking above Kobe, LeBron, Duncan, or Shaq. At all. It's a combination of nostalgia for those who were there, and impressionability to those who weren't. When you really look into how it all went down...

Magic, Bird, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe are all in the same tier, with LeBron just a little bit of success left to get there.

One of best post I've seen you make. Well said. :applause:

[Cold soul]

Somewhere in the 9-15 range

Lol at this troll post. Kobe top 5-9 range deal with it.

[ArbitraryWater]

One of best post I've seen you make. Well said. :applause:

........do you actually read any of his Posts?

[Nuff Said]

everyone is so quick to dismiss kobe... cept when jordan listed all the guys he'd wanna play 1 on 1... jordan said kobe was the only guy he'd lose to

and jordan also said kobe is the best player all time asside from himself


larry - "kobe is the 1 player i'd want as a team mate"

magic - "kobe is the greatest laker all time"

shaq - "kobe is the best laker ever"

riley - "kobes right there with jordan"

george karl - "kobe is top 3 all time"

jerry west - "kobe is a once in a lifetime player"

PJ - "kobe is more skilled than jordan"


its obvious kobe is in the top 5 all time at worst
**** you getting these quotes from?

[kennethgriffin]

nope. 4 full games. one 10 min game and missed one game.

that's like lebron for not showing up for game 4 of the 2011 finals.


kobes 2000 finals is underrated

minus the game he left in the 1st quarter he averaged 19ppg

the lakers lost the game he missed entirely

he had 28/4/5 in the most important game of the series with shaq fouled out. hit the game winner

he had 26/10/4/2 in the series clinching game 6


he was the mvp of the WCF game 7 with 25/11/7/4

he hit a game winner vs phoenix

he averaged 21/5/5 for the entire playoffs




seems legit to me

[SouBeachTalents]

kobes 2000 finals is underrated

minus the game he left in the 1st quarter he averaged 19ppg

the lakers lost the game he missed entirely

he had 28/4/5 in the most important game of the series with shaq fouled out. hit the game winner

he had 26/10/4/2 in the series clinching game 6


he was the mvp of the WCF game 7 with 25/11/7/4

he hit a game winner vs phoenix

he averaged 21/5/5 for the entire playoffs




seems legit to me

Averaging 19 ppg on 37% shooting in the Finals while your teammate literally doubles your scoring average isn't that much to brag about

[red1]

The most overrated player of the modern era. Still top 7-8 doe.

[Cold soul]

........do you actually read any of his Posts?

Yes, why you ask? :confusedshrug:

I usually agree with most things he says he's pretty unbiased.

[kennethgriffin]

**** you getting these quotes from?



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CsqbZ-n82Y

"i dont think i'd lose to anyone other than kobe bryant" - michael jordan


http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/michael-jordan-thinks-only-kobe-bryant-deserves-comparisons-222702003.html

"kobe is only player than deserves comparison all time" - michael jordan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AAEiIdQwX50

"larry wants kobe as his 1 team mate he'd choose"

http://espn.go.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/23766/shaq-calls-kobe-the-greatest-laker-of-all-time

"shaq calls kobe greatest laker all time


http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/is-kobe-the-best-laker-ever-jerry-west-and-magic-johnson-think-so/

magic and west call kobe the greatest laker ever


http://www.denverpost.com/nuggets/ci_7646944

"Before the game, Nuggets coach George Karl testified that Bryant is one of the top three basketball talents in the history of basketball."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0565oawy9Ak

"he rates right there with jordan. you gotta put kobe there" - pat riley


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtvRatRkevw

"kobe is more skilled than jordan" - phil jackson













dont test me MOTHER F*CKER


:no:

[kennethgriffin]

Averaging 19 ppg on 37% shooting in the Finals while your teammate literally doubles your scoring average isn't that much to brag about


we both know indiana was maybe the 3rd best team the lakers played that year

[Velocirap31]

we both know indiana was maybe the 3rd best team the lakers played that year

What does this have to do with Kobe stinking that series?

[SuperPippen]

All trolling from beta losers like ImKobe and kennethgriffin aside, no, Kobe has no case as the GOAT, but I still think he's generally underrated.

I'd rank him ahead of Magic simply because I believe Kobe to be the more talented player.

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Lebron
Hakeem


8th all time seems about right.

[Asiantastic]

You guys should just ignore kenneth and ImKobe lol. Jabbar on the other hand :bowdown:

In all seriousness, Kobe is nowhere close to being #1, but I'd rank him between 8-10.

[kennethgriffin]

What does this have to do with Kobe stinking that series?

he didnt though


minus the game he left in the 1st quarter he averaged 19ppg

the lakers lost the game he missed entirely

he had 28/4/5 in the most important game of the series with shaq fouled out. hit the game winner

he had 26/10/4/2 in the series clinching game 6


kobe dominated arguably the most important moments of that nba finals

[G0ATbe]

Absolutely. I could understand why someone might argue Kareem or Magic... but 81, outscoring an entire team, godlike footwork, GOAT killer instinct and especially era is what separates him from them.

[ImKobe]

All trolling from beta losers like ImKobe and kennethgriffin aside, no, Kobe has no case as the GOAT, but I still think he's generally underrated.

I'd rank him ahead of Magic simply because I believe Kobe to be the more talented player.

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Duncan
Shaq
Bird
Kobe
Magic
Lebron
Hakeem


8th all time seems about right.


Who, in the blue hell, are you?

[greatest-ever]

Unquestionably.

Magic says he's better than him
Shaq says he's better
he's the only player Jordan thinks can beat him

No matter how much you ISH trolls try to convince me otherwise, I think I'd rather listen to the all-time greats rather than your sorry asses that work in McDonalds.
That's just them being humble. It means nothing in a vacuum. Also i don't recall Shaq ever claiming Kobe is better than him.

[ImKobe]

That's just them being humble. It means nothing in a vacuum. Also i don't recall Shaq ever claiming Kobe is better than him.

Shaq calls Kobe the GOAT Laker

Shaq's career outside of LA - shit.

[greatest-ever]

Shaq calls Kobe the GOAT Laker

Shaq's career outside of LA - shit.
Saying Kobe is a better laker than him doesn't mean his career was better, its just out of longevity with the Lakers really.

Your second comment is just trash, Shaq was an elite player in Orlando and in his first 2 seasons with the Heat.

[beastee]

no.

[Nick Young]

GOATbe gonna GOAT.
How great is our gawd:bowdown:

[Dr Hawk]

GOATbe gonna GOAT.
How great is our gawd:bowdown:

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125773/4483457-1835649421-tumbl.gif

[TMacYaoRockets]

2nd greatest of all time.

[SwayDizzle]

No. He lost his chance at goathood in the 2008 NBA Finals. Just like Lebron did in 2011 Finals. I have him in the 5-8 range which is pretty damn great.
hate to admit it but you are right. If kobe had destroyed that 08 celtics squad ala MJ and 3-peated, then he would have a very strong argument for GOAT

[Dragonyeuw]

No, but when talking about GOAT lists, some of you guys act like there's a wide gap between,say, 1 and 5. There aren't MAJOR differences combining factors like ability, production, talent and accolades when you throw together a list of Jordan/Russell/Kareem/Magic/ Duncan/ Bird/Kobe/ Hakeem/ Shaq/ Lebron etc etc. If Kobe is ranked 5th by one, and 8th by another, who gives a fukk? Is there really some huge gap between players 5 and 8, when talking about the greatest players of ALL time?!

The differences between those players are probably smaller than the next tier of players normally showing up between 11 and 20. Honestly, you can rank Kobe over Magic or Bird for perfectly legitimate reasons, and the reverse is also true. Its all subjective, and the pissing contests that arise from these debates are laughable.

[DonDadda59]

No but there's no shame in being the 4th best player in the post Jordan era. :applause:

[Cold soul]

No but there's no shame in being the 4th best player in the post Jordan era. :applause:

Nah more like 2nd or 3rd for now.

[TheBigVeto]

Definitely no.

[Nick Young]

How great is our gawd:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[IMObjective]

No, but when talking about GOAT lists, some of you guys act like there's a wide gap between,say, 1 and 5. There aren't MAJOR differences combining factors like ability, production, talent and accolades when you throw together a list of Jordan/Russell/Kareem/Magic/ Duncan/ Bird/Kobe/ Hakeem/ Shaq/ Lebron etc etc. If Kobe is ranked 5th by one, and 8th by another, who gives a fukk? Is there really some huge gap between players 5 and 8, when talking about the greatest players of ALL time?!

The differences between those players are probably smaller than the next tier of players normally showing up between 11 and 20. Honestly, you can rank Kobe over Magic or Bird for perfectly legitimate reasons, and the reverse is also true. Its all subjective, and the pissing contests that arise from these debates are laughable.
I concur

[pastis]

its arguable

hes more all around skilled offensively than jordan and faced way more better players at his position
hes a better defender than magic and won with less help
hes had twice as long a career as larry bird
he won in a real era unlike russell/wilt
he has twice the individual dominance as duncan
had a better career than shaq
Kareem won with way more help with a free trip to the finals an entire decade



its arguable that kobe is the most dangerous offensive player since the merger

and hes a top notch defender added onto his legendary success

he could be argued as goat player for sure.

he faced wade as his only enemy for a first all nba selection. 2 G spotts. Just wade as an enemy for a first team. Haha. Tmac was done 07 and just had good stats in shitty teams. fringe top 50 player. Dirk against Duncan, Garnett, Durant, Bron for a forward spott. All top 20 players all time

http://media.giphy.com/media/O5NyCibf93upy/giphy.gif

[ClipperRevival]

GOAT at what? Basketball? :roll:

[Smoke117]

https://godofall.files.wordpress.com/2014/06/wade-laugh.gif

[raprap]

:lol

[STATUTORY]

81 responses

:applause:

[ekosky]

No idiot, because LeBron James is.

[jstern]

Somewhere in the 9-15 range
I agree with this.

[Angel Face]

No. He's somewhere around 7 - 9.

[ImKobe]

Has been dubbed the greatest Laker of all-time by Shaq, Magic, West..


so top 1-2

[ShawkFactory]

Has been dubbed the greatest Laker of all-time by Shaq, Magic, West..


so top 1-2
Jordan, Russel, KAJ, Wilt, and Bird were not life-long Lakers.

[r15mohd]

Has been dubbed the greatest Laker of all-time by Shaq, Magic, West..


so top 1-2


since when does greatest Laker mean GOAT? :rolleyes:

he doesnt have the most rings...Bill Russell, MJ, Kareem
he doesnt have the most FMVP...MJ, Kareem
he barely has an MVP to his name...Bill, MJ, Kareem, Wilt, Lebron

see those common trends above at just the forefront of details...he is certainly not ahead of them.

then you bring in the intangibles in which guys like Shaq has as having one of the greatest peaks ever along with the jewelry to back it up, Magic leading the Lakers right through his career to 5 titles and arguably the best PG ever, Bird and his many MVPs and titles in the 80s elading the Celtics to dominance, Tim Duncan's consistency for almost 20years in the league and jewelry to show. Kobe is good-great, but he's not the GOAT, not top5 and right now hanging onto top 10 status with guys like Lebron who keeps adding to their resume with substantial amount of time left in the league.