Are you opposed to getting rid of the "Hack-A-playerthatcantshootFTs"?

[Solefade]

While watching a free throw contest between DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard could be very aesthetically unpleasant, I feel like teams shouldn't get a pass for having bad free throw shooters...what do you think?

[Rooster]

While watching a free throw contest between DeAndre Jordan and Dwight Howard could be very aesthetically unpleasant, I feel like teams shouldn't get a pass for having bad free throw shooters...what do you think?

I think they should get rid of that. It's slows the game and it's not a fan friendly. History will tell you that there are just some players that just can't hit freethrows but it does not stop few of them from being great players.

[kshutts1]

My sole complaint of the tactic is that EVERY SINGLE TIME it is employed, there is a Flagrant foul that is not called. That is not a basketball play, nor is there a play on the ball. By definition.. Flagrant. Call it as such.

Edit to add link:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/04/18/flagrant.technical/

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Learn to shoot FTs or stop complaining.

[Eric Cartman]

My sole complaint of the tactic is that EVERY SINGLE TIME it is employed, there is a Flagrant foul that is not called. That is not a basketball play, nor is there a play on the ball. By definition.. Flagrant. Call it as such.

Edit to add link:
http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/04/18/flagrant.technical/

NBA gonna asssign technicals for hugging opposing players.

Sarcastaball all over again.

[kshutts1]

NBA gonna asssign technicals for hugging opposing players.

Sarcastaball all over again.
Either enforce the rules or get rid of them.

We don't need rule changes to slow, or even stop, "hack-a-player" strategies. The rules are in place. Utilize them. It is, very clearly, no argument possible, not a basketball play, nor is it a play on the ball. It is entirely "unnecessary" which, by literal definition, makes it Flagrant.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/2e71a7c58ecfc6faf5b33ced9c778beb/tumblr_mqkw87o3tj1r4gei2o1_400.gif

[Velocirap31]

Certain professional players need to learn how to shoot a free throw better than some random person off the street. It's pathetic.

[Derka]

Make your free throws and this practice becomes a thing of the past. No need to legislate on behalf of professional ball players who can't play the game they're being paid to play.

[kshutts1]

Learn to shoot FTs or stop complaining.
Not everyone can shoot FTs.

Just as there are some natural shooters, there are some natural non-shooters.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Not everyone can shoot FTs.

Just as there are some natural shooters, there are some natural non-shooters.

I don't buy that at all. If you can't shoot 70% from the FT line it's lack of practice or mental weakness.

[kshutts1]

I don't buy that at all. If you can't shoot 70% from the FT line it's lack of practice or mental weakness.
You don't need to buy it; it's a fact.

Some people can naturally...
run faster than others
Jump higher
think more quickly
learn a particular subject more easily

Having an innate ability is not a matter of conjecture, or a matter of opinion, but rather fact. It stands to reason that shooting is also one of those.

[Droid101]

"Make your free throws!" doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch. You realize that the strategy will still be employed to "slow the game down" by enterprising coaches, even if there are all 70% shooters on the floor.

It's not fun to watch. If your team gets fouled, your coach should be able to say if they want free throws or the ball out of bounds. Remove the "foul away from the ball in the last 2 minutes" rule all together and employ this rule, and all is set going forward.

[Eric Cartman]

Either enforce the rules or get rid of them.

We don't need rule changes to slow, or even stop, "hack-a-player" strategies. The rules are in place. Utilize them. It is, very clearly, no argument possible, not a basketball play, nor is it a play on the ball. It is entirely "unnecessary" which, by literal definition, makes it Flagrant.

While we're at it, call it a flagrant if DeAndre doesn't get multiple high 5's, hugs and a big compliment (huge esteem boost) from the hacking team.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You don't need to buy it; it's a fact.

Some people can naturally...
run faster than others
Jump higher
think more quickly
learn a particular subject more easily

Having an innate ability is not a matter of conjecture, or a matter of opinion, but rather fact. It stands to reason that shooting is also one of those.

:whatever:

Practice FTs or stop complaining. :confusedshrug:

[kshutts1]

While we're at it, call it a flagrant if DeAndre doesn't get multiple high 5's and a big compliment (huge esteem boost) from the hacking team.
I don't understand. I just looked up the rule, noticed that the "hack-a-player" strategy is in direct conflict with the rule, and pointed that out.

What were you trying to prove?

[Eric Cartman]

Also, we need to lower the rim to 9 feet so players like Barea and Rubio can dunk, don't want to left them feel inadequate, would go a long way in not making them feel awkward.

[Eric Cartman]

I don't understand. I just looked up the rule, noticed that the "hack-a-player" strategy is in direct conflict with the rule, and pointed that out.

What were you trying to prove?

It's not in direct conflict, the term "unnecessary" is so vague and abstract that it is open to stupid interpretations, like the one you just made.

[kshutts1]

It's not in direct conflict, the term "unnecessary" is so vague and abstract that it is open to stupid interpretations, like the one you just made.

It can be made vague. One could argue that hugging an opposing player, who doesn't have the ball and is not even past half court, is fully necessary.

I tend to not side with that... argument... though.

[kshutts1]

Also, we need to lower the rim to 9 feet so players like Barea and Rubio can dunk, don't want to left them feel inadequate, would go a long way in not making them feel awkward.
And this comment in no way correlates to my point, or our discussion.

I'm not saying "disallow intentional fouling because so-and-so can't make a FT". I'm saying "disallow intentional fouling because the current rules say it's illegal".

If the NBA wants to continue to allow intentional fouls, then change the rules to reflect that. If they do not, then they already have the rule structure in place and just need to enforce them.

[Eric Cartman]

It can be made vague. One could argue that hugging an opposing player, who doesn't have the ball and is not even past half court, is fully necessary.

I tend to not side with that... argument... though.

Well, if you want to send that player to the free throw line, it is necessary, at least a tap on the shoulder, hug or grab him.

[kshutts1]

Well, if you want to send that player to the free throw line, it is necessary, at least a tap on the shoulder, hug or grab him.

...Time to get ridiculous. If a team wants to win, sometimes it's "necessary" to purposefully injure the other team. Sometimes it's "necessary" to videotape practices illegally, and use that inside knowledge. Sometimes it's "necessary" to pay off officials.

Being necessary does not mean that the above acts are legal in a particular sport. If said "necessary" act flies against a current rule, that makes it illegal.

[oarabbus]

Learn to shoot FTs or stop complaining.


This hit your ****ing free throws


Why would you give big men a handicap... they already have a natural advantage over small guys. Dumbest idea ever.

[Derka]

Nice little circle jerk you two are having here.

[bluechox2]

keep it simple...first team to intentional foul loses the game

[Eric Cartman]

...Time to get ridiculous. If a team wants to win, sometimes it's "necessary" to purposefully injure the other team. Sometimes it's "necessary" to videotape practices illegally, and use that inside knowledge. Sometimes it's "necessary" to pay off officials.

Being necessary does not mean that the above acts are legal in a particular sport. If said "necessary" act flies against a current rule, that makes it illegal.

Free throws are a part of the game of basketball, like walks in baseball, punts and onside kicks in football. Injuring players isn't, in any non fighting sport. Neither is bribbing officials or tapping practices ilegally (although the Patriots seem to walk a fine line in that aspect). You could argue for ft's to be outlawed, no free throws for anyone, not even Steph Curry or Klay Thompson, but you'd be kind of alone in that respect.

[Vancouver-Grizz]

Leave it as is.


There are no excuses for not hitting free throws. Players in this competition level obvious is acceptable to coaching and change. Put in the work and change the form if needed.

There are plenty of big men that can shoot so don't use the excuse of hand size and so on. It goes back to hard work and dedication.

Webber and Duncan had issues that they both corrected. Even Shaq had a decent year with Phoenix when they focused on it.

[kshutts1]

Free throws are a part of the game of basketball, like walks in baseball, punts and onside kicks in football. Injuring players isn't, in any non fighting sport. Neither is bribbing officials or tapping practices ilegally (although the Patriots seem to walk a fine line in that aspect). You could argue for ft's to be outlawed, no free throws for anyone, not even Steph Curry or Klay Thompson, but you'd be kind of alone in that respect.
I don't think you grasp my argument.

I'm arguing that intentional fouls are ALREADY outlawed. It's just not enforced.

And to everyone that says "learn to shoot FTs".. it's not that simple.

Go out and shoot one thousand FTs today. Come back here with your %. Then shoot one or two thousand each week for a year. At the end of the year, do a thousand in a row again. Post your percentage again. I guarantee that almost no one will improve by over 8%.

Everyone can improve at anything. But ceilings, and floors, are "set" at different places for literally every single human being. Deandre could practice FTs all day, every day. He still won't shoot 70%. Curry could NOT practice FTs for five years, and I bet he'd still hit 85% once he started again.

[Eric Cartman]

I'm arguing that intentional fouls are ALREADY outlawed. It's just not enforced.

No, they're not.

[ralph_i_el]

Either enforce the rules or get rid of them.

We don't need rule changes to slow, or even stop, "hack-a-player" strategies. The rules are in place. Utilize them. It is, very clearly, no argument possible, not a basketball play, nor is it a play on the ball. It is entirely "unnecessary" which, by literal definition, makes it Flagrant.
^this

[jimmybball]

http://38.media.tumblr.com/2e71a7c58ecfc6faf5b33ced9c778beb/tumblr_mqkw87o3tj1r4gei2o1_400.gif

:lol

[J Shuttlesworth]

"Make your free throws!" doesn't make it any more entertaining to watch. You realize that the strategy will still be employed to "slow the game down" by enterprising coaches, even if there are all 70% shooters on the floor.

It's not fun to watch. If your team gets fouled, your coach should be able to say if they want free throws or the ball out of bounds. Remove the "foul away from the ball in the last 2 minutes" rule all together and employ this rule, and all is set going forward.
Exactly. The fans reaction to "make your damn free throws" is "I'm changing the god damn channel"

fouling should be a penalty to a team, not a strategy

[HurricaneKid]

I don't understand. I just looked up the rule, noticed that the "hack-a-player" strategy is in direct conflict with the rule, and pointed that out.

What were you trying to prove?

No. In college they delineate between intentional fouls and non-intentional fouls. In the NBA there is no such thing as an intentional foul. They draw the line at flagrant. And no, grabbing a guy is not the same thing as punching a guy or hitting him when he is in the air.

[Real Men Wear Green]

Hack-a-Shaq strategies definitely make games boring and that's bad business. The ideal game would have no whistles whatsoever with few breaks in the action. That kind of perfect game won't happen but the league should try and get as close to that state as possible. No one in human history has ever turned to an NBA game hoping to see DeAndre Jordan shoot 20 free throws.

My solution: Let the coach choose which of his players gets to shoot the FTs whenever they are to be shot in a non-and1 situation. I wanted to avoid any solution that involved techs or anything that called on the referees to gauge intent or punish the fouler beyond calling a basic foul. If Chris Paul or JJ Redick is shooting the free throws we won't see DJ getting intentionally fouled ever again.

[kennethgriffin]

in actuality intentional fouls have been a technical foul in the rule book for a long time

they call flagrents/techs if anyone fouls a shooter without making a play on the basketball


how on earth is someone wacking a guy 20 feet away from the ball ( not in the flow of the game ) not a technical foul and/or flagrent depending on the severity

[warriorfan]

modern day players have gotten enough free passes on rule changes already

[kennethgriffin]

a guy goes for a layup ... a defender wraps him up


WHISTLE!* .... "no play on the ball! 2 shots and the ball back! technical! flagrent! throw him out!"


a guy just stands there doing nothing.... a defender wraps him up


WHISTLE*... "oh well that wasnt too bad. just give him 2 shots if theyre in the penilty"


doesnt make sense

[Droid101]

My solution: Let the coach choose which of his players gets to shoot the FTs whenever they are to be shot in a non-and1 situation. I wanted to avoid any solution that involved techs or anything that called on the referees to gauge intent or punish the fouler beyond calling a basic foul. If Chris Paul or JJ Redick is shooting the free throws we won't see DJ getting intentionally fouled ever again.
I'm cool with this solution as well.

[HurricaneKid]

My solution: Let the coach choose which of his players gets to shoot the FTs whenever they are to be shot in a non-and1 situation. I wanted to avoid any solution that involved techs or anything that called on the referees to gauge intent or punish the fouler beyond calling a basic foul. If Chris Paul or JJ Redick is shooting the free throws we won't see DJ getting intentionally fouled ever again.

This is the exact type of rule I REALLY don't want to have to endure. A rule that completely changes the game and impacts the game enormously because of a theoretical strategy rarely employed of fouling just a handful of players.

The EXISTING rules already have started down that slippery slope. A foul off the ball in the last two min is shot & the ball. In OT of G3 of GSW/Pels Klay got a little overagressive bumping Brow off his line (standard def play) and got called for the foul. Instead of being down 3 with the ball the Pels were down 2 with the ball. A HUGE difference in outcome. Refs are afraid to call off ball fouls in the last few min because of the punitive nature of giving the team a point and have let WAY too much go.

[Real Men Wear Green]

This is the exact type of rule I REALLY don't want to have to endure. A rule that completely changes the game and impacts the game enormously because of a theoretical strategy rarely employed of fouling just a handful of players. "Endure?" All that's going to happen is that you'll see a lot less fouls and a lot less bad free throw shooting. How is this bad?

[Pointguard]

And this comment in no way correlates to my point, or our discussion.

I'm not saying "disallow intentional fouling because so-and-so can't make a FT". I'm saying "disallow intentional fouling because the current rules say it's illegal".

If the NBA wants to continue to allow intentional fouls, then change the rules to reflect that. If they do not, then they already have the rule structure in place and just need to enforce them.
Yes, this. Fouls were never meant to be exploited for inferior teams, plain and simple. Their intention to call fouls is control an aspect of the game that gets out of hand. Its not meant to win a championship with or be a strategy of losing teams.

[buddha]

change the ****ing rules, nothing is more sleep inducing than watching a free throw contest.

[JohnFreeman]

Learn to shoot freethrows.

[zizozain]

sports gloden rule:

''you can't gain an advantage of a foul that you committed''


NBA rules should be changed

[kshutts1]

Hack-a-Shaq strategies definitely make games boring and that's bad business. The ideal game would have no whistles whatsoever with few breaks in the action. That kind of perfect game won't happen but the league should try and get as close to that state as possible. No one in human history has ever turned to an NBA game hoping to see DeAndre Jordan shoot 20 free throws.

My solution: Let the coach choose which of his players gets to shoot the FTs whenever they are to be shot in a non-and1 situation. I wanted to avoid any solution that involved techs or anything that called on the referees to gauge intent or punish the fouler beyond calling a basic foul. If Chris Paul or JJ Redick is shooting the free throws we won't see DJ getting intentionally fouled ever again.
I understand that sentiment, but it's literally not a basic foul. A basic foul would have occurred in the flow of the game, not a bear-hug beyond half court...

[Real Men Wear Green]

I understand that sentiment, but it's literally not a basic foul. A basic foul would have occurred in the flow of the game, not a bear-hug beyond half court...
True but do we want to approach the level of contributing to a player's ejection or anything more severe over a foul that isn't really trying to hurt anyone? If it's a true flagrant, ok, call that, but if it's just a wrapping up it shouldn't be a major offense. Putting the opposing team's best free throw shooter on the line is enough of a deterrent.

[navy]

True but do we want to approach the level of contributing to a player's ejection or anything more severe over a foul that isn't really trying to hurt anyone? If it's a true flagrant, ok, call that, but if it's just a wrapping up it shouldn't be a major offense. Putting the opposing team's best free throw shooter on the line is enough of a deterrent.
Just call a technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct and no one will ever do it again.

[Bernkastel]

Make your free throws.