What would a 3rd chip do for Pau Gasol's legacy?

[Mrofir]

If the Bulls win it all this year, and Gasol is roughly their 2.5th best player, can he crack the top 50? If Bulls win, his resume would look competitive on paper.


Career averages of 18.3/9.4 with 1.7 blocks.

15 seasons -- 10x playoffs, 5x all star, 3x champion, ROTY, 2x 3rd team, 1x 2nd team

Right now he slots in at #45 on basketball reference voting for all time rankings. The number looks reasonable but then you look further down the list and see names like Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Kevin Johnson, Grant Hill, Tony Parker, Manu, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Chris Bosh (who has a similar resume), etc etc. Does Pau belong up there and would a 3rd ring cement his legacy as a top 50 player? Gosh, if Spain wins in the 2012 olympics, maybe he is even higher. Could Pau Gasol be underrated?

[mehyaM24]

gasol's defense makes this a tough question, imo

however, i think you could reasonably put him in the top 5 as far as PF's are concerned. 2009, 2010 and 2015 (assuming chicago wins a title) would have seen pau play at an elite level, while having a significant role in winning championships

[SpecialQue]

Pau is a rare player who is massively under and overrated by competing fan bases.

[dubeta]

Pau is a rare player who is massively under and overrated by competing fan bases.


Nope, just underrated

[triangleoffense]

3rd one puts him in the hall for sure

[JohnMax]

Kobe isn't even top 50

he is top 75 at best to those who actually understand the game of basketball. its the ignorant, bandwagon jumping, kool-aid drinking fools who think otherwise.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe isn't even top 50

he is top 75 at best to those who actually understand the game of basketball. its the ignorant, bandwagon jumping, kool-aid drinking fools who think otherwise.

:wtf:

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

gasol's defense makes this a tough question, imo

however, i think you could reasonably put him in the top 5 as far as PF's are concerned. 2009, 2010 and 2015 (assuming chicago wins a title) would have seen pau play at an elite level, while having a significant role in winning championships
Are u high? top 5?:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

KG
Dirk
Duncan
Chuck
Mailman

:biggums:

[DMV2]

It'll show that Kobe needed the MDE and the GOAT Spanish player to win 5 rings.

[jzek]

Factoring in that he's European, I'd say first-ballot HoF.

[mehyaM24]

Are u high? top 5?:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

KG
Dirk
Duncan
Chuck
Mailman

:biggums:
his resume would be greater than those guys, with the exception of duncan & maybe kg/dirk.

3 titles with those numbers is insane. is he an actual better player? is bill russell a better player than shaq? literally the same shit. resume =/= ability

[DMV2]

I think Gasol will most likely be compared to McHale. #2 option PF on a championship team.

I've heard that McHale was considered the best PF all-time when he was active. This was before Barkley and Mailman became a household name and long before Duncan, Dirk and KG came into the league.

The PF slot got so stacked that McHale is rarely talked about. I think Gasol will have the same fate.

[scm5]

Are u high? top 5?:biggums: :biggums: :biggums:

KG
Dirk
Duncan
Chuck
Mailman

:biggums:

No rings plays a big factor.

You could also argue that this current Bulls team is Pau's team. He's been their first option and their best/most consistent player throughout the season.

IF the Bulls win the championship, I would put Gasol in the conversation with Dirk. This doesn't mean he's as good, just that I think he deserves to be at Dirk's level and probably just below him in the all-time rankings.

If I had to rank them and Pau wins a ring/fmvp this season:

Duncan
Dirk
KG
Pau
Barkley
Malone

[Akrazotile]

Bean shook as **** right now

[24-Inch_Chrome]

He's going to the Hall of Fame either way.

[Akrazotile]

I think Gasol will most likely be compared to McHale. #2 option PF on a championship team.

I've heard that McHale was considered the best PF all-time when he was active. This was before Barkley and Mailman became a household name and long before Duncan, Dirk and KG came into the league.

The PF slot got so stacked that McHale is rarely talked about. I think Gasol will have the same fate.


McHale was not only a post-up savant, but also a first team DEFENSE player.

Dude was a legit beast and an impact player. Not just a flashy stats guy.

Idiot fans though only remember "one alpha per team" and assume everyone else sucked :rolleyes:

[scm5]

If the Bulls win it all this year, and Gasol is roughly their 2.5th best player, can he crack the top 50? If Bulls win, his resume would look competitive on paper.


Career averages of 18.3/9.4 with 1.7 blocks.

15 seasons -- 10x playoffs, 5x all star, 3x champion, ROTY, 2x 3rd team, 1x 2nd team

Right now he slots in at #45 on basketball reference voting for all time rankings. The number looks reasonable but then you look further down the list and see names like Carmelo Anthony, Dwight Howard, Kevin Johnson, Grant Hill, Tony Parker, Manu, Paul Pierce, Vince Carter, Chris Bosh (who has a similar resume), etc etc. Does Pau belong up there and would a 3rd ring cement his legacy as a top 50 player? Gosh, if Spain wins in the 2012 olympics, maybe he is even higher. Could Pau Gasol be underrated?

I hate how much disrespect Pau gets on this forum and probably by basketball-heads in general.

It's at least arguable that Pau has been the Bulls' best player during the regular season. He was at least their most consistent player. In terms of defense, he's probably the most impactful as well. He has the most DWS and the lowest Drtg on the team. He's at least not a scrub on defense.

In the playoffs, no question Butler has been their best player, but Pau has outperformed Rose by a significant level. Not only offensively (PER) but defensively. At the very least, I would consider Pau 1b on this Bulls' team.

Rose is nowhere near Pau's level anymore.

[SouBeachTalents]

Just :lol at people saying Pau will go down as greater than Malone or Barkley with a title this year. Those guys easily have a title if not for the GOAT, and they'd be the clear cut best player on their teams winning those titles too.

Gasol has never made an All-NBA First Team, has made just one second team, and iirc has never received a single MVP vote in his entire career. To put him ahead of Malone & Barkley is just a joke

[dubeta]

Just :lol at people saying Pau will go down as greater than Malone or Barkley with a title this year. Those guys easily have a title if not for the GOAT, and they'd be the clear cut best player on their teams winning those titles too.

Gasol has never made an All-NBA First Team, has made just one second team, and iirc has never received a single MVP vote in his entire career. To put him ahead of Malone & Barkley is just a joke


Gasol is better than either Malone or Barkley. LOL Malone was only 6'9 Barkley was 6'5 but Gasol is a legit 7 feet. He has a better post game, better jumpshot, better passer, better defensively than either of them.

[ClipperRevival]

No rings plays a big factor.

You could also argue that this current Bulls team is Pau's team. He's been their first option and their best/most consistent player throughout the season.

IF the Bulls win the championship, I would put Gasol in the conversation with Dirk. This doesn't mean he's as good, just that I think he deserves to be at Dirk's level and probably just below him in the all-time rankings.

If I had to rank them and Pau wins a ring/fmvp this season:

Duncan
Dirk
KG
Pau
Barkley
Malone

When judging great players, whether they were alpha dogs or second fiddle carries a lot of weight. At least to me. Dirk was "the man" for most of his career. Winning a regular season mvp and fmvp. Only truly dominant players win regular season mvps. That is something Gasol could never do. So there are levels to greatness imo.

For instance, D. Robinson has 2 rings, just like Hakeem. But the way they got them makes all the difference in the world. Hakeem carrying his team while Rob piggy backing off of Duncan.

[navy]

All this shows is people need to stop being retarded with ring counts.

[ArbitraryWater]

top 50 all-time, no doubt.

[jimmybball]

OP asking the wrong ISH question and he knows it.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I hate how much disrespect Pau gets on this forum and probably by basketball-heads in general.

It's at least arguable that Pau has been the Bulls' best player during the regular season. He was at least their most consistent player. In terms of defense, he's probably the most impactful as well. He has the most DWS and the lowest Drtg on the team. He's at least not a scrub on defense.

In the playoffs, no question Butler has been their best player, but Pau has outperformed Rose by a significant level. Not only offensively (PER) but defensively. At the very least, I would consider Pau 1b on this Bulls' team.

Rose is nowhere near Pau's level anymore.


Did you really just say that Pau is the most impactful defender on the bulls??

[DCL]

Gasol is better than either Malone or Barkley.

stop it

[ClipperRevival]

If I'm starting a team, I take Malone and Barkley over Gasol in a nanosecond. They had much better peaks and I think they were just better players, despite Gasol winning rings. They were true alpha dogs and the type of players you can build around. At best, I would say Gasol is a 2nd fiddle on a championship team. He just didn't have the consistent defense or was strong/tough enough to consistently carry your team offensively and defensively, something required for truly great big men.

[ISHGoat]

If I'm starting a team, I take Malone and Barkley over Gasol in a nanosecond. They had much better peaks and I think they were just better players, despite Gasol winning rings. They were true alpha dogs and the type of players you can build around. At best, I would say Gasol is a 2nd fiddle on a championship team. He just didn't have the consistent defense or was strong/tough enough to consistently carry your team offensively and defensively, something required for truly great big men.

Sounds like an argument that fits kobe vs any player legit in the top 25. Kobe is not even a top 25 peak/impact player.

To be honest, id take malone/barkly/gasol over kobe if im starting a team too

[ClipperRevival]

Sounds like an argument that fits kobe vs any player legit in the top 25. Kobe is not even a top 25 peak/impact player.

To be honest, id take malone/barkly/gasol over kobe if im starting a team too

:wtf:

You can argue that at his peak, Kobe was the greatest offensive perimeter player EVER. How in the world is his peak not up there?

[SouBeachTalents]

Sounds like an argument that fits kobe vs any player legit in the top 25. Kobe is not even a top 25 peak/impact player.

To be honest, id take malone/barkly/gasol over kobe if im starting a team too

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Ron-Burgundy-Saying-I-Dont-Believe-You.gif

[scm5]

Did you really just say that Pau is the most impactful defender on the bulls??

I said he's probably their most impactful player as the stats back it up. I said that he's at least not a scrub on defense this season.

[greatest-ever]

I have Pau in my top 60 now, so yeah with a 3rd title on 18 12 type numbers it would vault him into my top 50 for sure.

[boldarblood]

Kobe isn't even top 50

he is top 75 at best to those who actually understand the game of basketball. its the ignorant, bandwagon jumping, kool-aid drinking fools who think otherwise.

Either sad little troll or completely basketball stupid...

[scm5]

When judging great players, whether they were alpha dogs or second fiddle carries a lot of weight. At least to me. Dirk was "the man" for most of his career. Winning a regular season mvp and fmvp. Only truly dominant players win regular season mvps. That is something Gasol could never do. So there are levels to greatness imo.

For instance, D. Robinson has 2 rings, just like Hakeem. But the way they got them makes all the difference in the world. Hakeem carrying his team while Rob piggy backing off of Duncan.

Pau wouldn't be piggybacking off of anyone this season if the Bulls won it. Pau didn't piggyback off of Kobe as much as D-Rob did Duncan.

Also, in terms of MVP, I don't hold much weight for that award. It's an extremely biased award.

Also, read what I wrote. Those are my rankings if Pau wins FMVP, and it's a very real possibility he wins it if the Bulls win it all. He's that good.

[Goon Time]

I'm Akrazotile, a fat and ugly failure of life and I'm going to pretend to have some insight here:

[ISHGoat]

:wtf:

You can argue that at his peak, Kobe was the greatest offensive perimeter player EVER. How in the world is his peak not up there?

He was a good offensive player, ill give him that. But he is far from the greatest offensive player ever.

He was simply not as efficient as GOAT tier offensive players like MJ, Lebron, Magic, etc. It is only a difference of 3-5% TS points, but that difference is huge over the course of a career.

There are countless instances of lakers coming down to the last shot and kobe bricking a game winner. Granted he has also hit alot, but when you take 40 game winners and make like 12 of them, is it really that much of an accomplishment?

Also, defense.

[Akrazotile]

I'm Akrazotile, a fat and ugly failure of life and I'm going to pretend to have some insight here:



:roll:

[Type 2]

I'm Akrazotile, a fat and ugly failure of life and I'm going to pretend to have some insight here:

Nothing wrong with being fat. They are probably the most discriminated group.

[G0ATbe]

#44 all time ATM, might move up to 43.

[TheMarkMadsen]

I said he's probably their most impactful player as the stats back it up. I said that he's at least not a scrub on defense this season.

whichever stats that are telling you Pau is the most impactful of a defender on the bulls should be thrown out the window

[kennethgriffin]

Bean shook as **** right now


I'd gladly take a 3rd ring as 2nd banana if it meant bouncing LeTransplant in the 2nd round


Paus making the hall of fame either way honestly. Whether it be on international or winning another ring and having enough nba accolades

Good for him..

Hes still only been a 5 time allstar and made just a few all nba teams. Never being 1st team

An 18ppg career average is ok.. nothing great


I hope the bulls win.

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/hof_prob.html

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 1.0000
2. Michael Jordan* 1.0000
3. Bill Russell* 1.0000
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 1.0000
5. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
6. Tim Duncan 1.0000
7. Shaquille O'Neal 1.0000
8. John Havlicek* 1.0000
9. Oscar Robertson* 1.0000
10. Bob Cousy* 1.0000
11. Kevin Garnett 1.0000
12. Jerry West* 1.0000
13. Magic Johnson* 1.0000
14. Karl Malone* 1.0000
15. LeBron James 1.0000
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 1.0000
17. Larry Bird* 1.0000
18. Elvin Hayes* 1.0000
19. David Robinson* 1.0000
20. Moses Malone* 1.0000
21. Dolph Schayes* 1.0000
22. Dirk Nowitzki 1.0000
23. John Stockton* 1.0000
24. Bob Pettit* 1.0000
25. Isiah Thomas* 1.0000
26. Dwyane Wade 0.9999
27. Charles Barkley* 0.9998
28. Allen Iverson 0.9998
29. Elgin Baylor* 0.9998
30. Paul Arizin* 0.9998
31. Jason Kidd 0.9997
32. Sam Jones* 0.9995
33. George Mikan* 0.9995
34. Chris Paul 0.9995
35. Gary Payton* 0.9994
36. Patrick Ewing* 0.9994
37. Julius Erving* 0.9991
38. Scottie Pippen* 0.9990
39. Ray Allen 0.9987
40. Clyde Drexler* 0.9978
41. Paul Pierce 0.9974
42. Hal Greer* 0.9974
43. Bill Sharman* 0.9970
44. Robert Parish* 0.9966
45. Rick Barry* 0.9950
46. Walt Frazier* 0.9949
47. Slater Martin* 0.9943
48. Tom Heinsohn* 0.9938
49. Neil Johnston* 0.9926
50. Dwight Howard 0.9893
51. Lenny Wilkens* 0.9880
52. Ed Macauley* 0.9873
53. Chris Bosh 0.9864
54. Kevin McHale* 0.9864
55. Dave Cowens* 0.9864
56. Bob McAdoo* 0.9863
57. Tiny Archibald* 0.9842
58. Steve Nash 0.9829
59. Kevin Durant 0.9821
60. Dominique Wilkins* 0.9814
61. George Gervin* 0.9787
62. Vern Mikkelsen* 0.9771
63. Willis Reed* 0.9768
64. Dikembe Mutombo* 0.9691
65. Jerry Lucas* 0.9608
66. Tracy McGrady 0.9555
67. Bob Lanier* 0.9494
68. Vince Carter 0.9455
69. Larry Foust 0.9420
70. Tony Parker 0.9386
71. Chet Walker* 0.9378
72. Bailey Howell* 0.9362
73. Alonzo Mourning* 0.9310
74. Alex English* 0.9235
75. Dave Bing* 0.9188
76. James Worthy* 0.9077
77. Grant Hill 0.8911
78. Adrian Dantley* 0.8862
79. Carmelo Anthony 0.8745
80. Jack Sikma 0.8698
81. Jo Jo White* 0.8692
82. Chauncey Billups 0.8440
83. Dave DeBusschere* 0.8358
84. Harry Gallatin* 0.8091
85. Tim Hardaway 0.7919
86. Richie Guerin* 0.7821
87. Pau Gasol 0.7773

[kennethgriffin]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

1 Michael Jordan 1985 2003 1072 38.3 30.1 6.2 5.3 2.3 0.8 .497 .327 .835 214.0 .250
2 Wilt Chamberlain 1960 1973 1045 45.8 30.1 22.9 4.4 .540 .511 247.3 .248
3 Bill Russell 1957 1969 963 42.3 15.1 22.5 4.3 .440 .561 163.5 .193
4 Shaquille O'Neal 1993 2011 1207 34.7 23.7 10.9 2.5 0.6 2.3 .582 .045 .527 181.7 .208
5 Oscar Robertson 1961 1974 1040 42.2 25.7 7.5 9.5 1.1 0.1 .485 .838 189.2 .207
6 Magic Johnson 1980 1996 906 36.7 19.5 7.2 11.2 1.9 0.4 .520 .303 .848 155.8 .225
7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1970 1989 1560 36.8 24.6 11.2 3.6 0.9 2.6 .559 .056 .721 273.4 .228
8 Tim Duncan 1998 2015 1331 34.4 19.5 11.0 3.1 0.7 2.2 .506 .181 .696 201.2 .211
9 Larry Bird 1980 1992 897 38.4 24.3 10.0 6.3 1.7 0.8 .496 .376 .886 145.8 .203
10 Kobe Bryant 1997 2015 1280 36.5 25.4 5.3 4.8 1.5 0.5 .451 .334 .837 173.1 .178
11 Jerry West 1961 1974 932 39.2 27.0 5.8 6.7 2.6 0.7 .474 .814 162.6 .213
12 Elgin Baylor 1959 1972 846 40.0 27.4 13.5 4.3 .431 .780 104.2 .148
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 1985 2002 1238 35.7 21.8 11.1 2.5 1.7 3.1 .512 .202 .712 162.8 .177
14 Bob Pettit 1955 1965 792 38.8 26.4 16.2 3.0 .436 .761 136.0 .213
15 Moses Malone 1977 1995 1329 33.9 20.6 12.2 1.4 0.8 1.3 .491 .100 .769 167.1 .178
16 Julius Erving 1977 1987 836 34.3 22.0 6.7 3.9 1.8 1.5 .507 .261 .777 106.2 .178
17 John Havlicek 1963 1978 1270 36.6 20.8 6.3 4.8 1.2 0.3 .439 .815 131.7 .136
18 Karl Malone 1986 2004 1476 37.2 25.0 10.1 3.6 1.4 0.8 .516 .274 .742 234.6 .205
19 Isiah Thomas 1982 1994 979 36.3 19.2 3.6 9.3 1.9 0.3 .452 .290 .759 80.7 .109
20 Charles Barkley 1985 2000 1073 36.7 22.1 11.7 3.9 1.5 0.8 .541 .266 .735 177.2 .216
21 Rick Barry 1966 1980 794 36.3 23.2 6.5 5.1 2.0 0.5 .449 .330 .900 93.4 .156
22 John Stockton 1985 2003 1504 31.8 13.1 2.7 10.5 2.2 0.2 .515 .384 .826 207.7 .209
23 Elvin Hayes 1969 1984 1303 38.4 21.0 12.5 1.8 1.0 2.0 .452 .147 .670 120.8 .116
24 Bob Cousy 1951 1970 924 35.3 18.4 5.2 7.5 .375 .803 91.1 .139
25 David Robinson 1990 2003 987 34.7 21.1 10.6 2.5 1.4 3.0 .518 .250 .736 178.7 .250
26 Kevin McHale 1981 1993 971 31.0 17.9 7.3 1.7 0.4 1.7 .554 .261 .798 113.0 .180
27 Scottie Pippen 1988 2004 1178 34.9 16.1 6.4 5.2 2.0 0.8 .473 .326 .704 125.1 .146
28 Jason Kidd 1995 2013 1391 36.0 12.6 6.3 8.7 1.9 0.3 .400 .349 .785 138.6 .133
29 George Mikan 1949 1956 439 34.4 23.1 13.4 2.8 .404 .782 108.7 .249
30 Kevin Garnett 1996 2015 1424 35.0 18.2 10.2 3.8 1.3 1.4 .497 .276 .790 190.4 .183
31 LeBron James 2004 2015 911 39.3 27.3 7.1 6.9 1.7 0.8 .496 .342 .745 178.9 .240
32 Willis Reed 1965 1974 650 35.5 18.7 12.9 1.8 0.6 1.1 .476 .747 74.9 .156
33 Wes Unseld 1969 1981 984 36.4 10.8 14.0 3.9 1.1 0.6 .509 .500 .633 110.1 .147
34 Nate Thurmond 1964 1977 964 37.2 15.0 15.0 2.7 0.5 2.1 .421 .667 78.0 .104
35 Dolph Schayes 1950 1964 996 34.4 18.5 12.1 3.1 .380 .849 142.4 .192
36 Walt Frazier 1968 1980 825 37.5 18.9 5.9 6.1 1.9 0.2 .490 .000 .786 113.5 .176
37 Patrick Ewing 1986 2002 1183 34.3 21.0 9.8 1.9 1.0 2.4 .504 .152 .740 126.4 .150
38 Jerry Lucas 1964 1974 829 38.8 17.0 15.6 3.3 0.4 0.3 .499 .783 98.4 .147
39 Gary Payton 1991 2007 1335 35.3 16.3 3.9 6.7 1.8 0.2 .466 .317 .729 145.5 .148
40 Allen Iverson 1997 2010 914 41.1 26.7 3.7 6.2 2.2 0.2 .425 .313 .780 99.0 .126
41 Billy Cunningham 1966 1976 654 34.3 20.8 10.1 4.0 1.2 0.5 .446 .720 63.2 .135
42 Clyde Drexler 1984 1998 1086 34.6 20.4 6.1 5.6 2.0 0.7 .472 .318 .788 135.6 .173
43 Dominique Wilkins 1983 1999 1074 35.5 24.8 6.7 2.5 1.3 0.6 .461 .319 .811 117.5 .148
44 Dave Cowens 1971 1983 766 38.6 17.6 13.6 3.8 1.1 0.9 .460 .071 .783 86.3 .140
45 George Gervin 1977 1986 791 33.5 26.2 4.6 2.8 1.2 0.8 .511 .297 .844 88.1 .159
46 Bob McAdoo 1973 1986 852 33.2 22.1 9.4 2.3 1.0 1.5 .503 .081 .754 89.1 .151
47 Earl Monroe 1968 1980 926 32.0 18.8 3.0 3.9 1.0 0.3 .464 .807 77.4 .125
48 Dennis Rodman 1987 2000 911 31.7 7.3 13.1 1.8 0.7 0.6 .521 .231 .584 89.8 .150
49 Dwyane Wade 2004 2015 781 36.2 24.1 4.9 5.9 1.7 0.9 .490 .289 .765 108.9 .185
50 Steve Nash 1997 2014 1217 31.3 14.3 3.0 8.5 0.7 0.1 .490 .428 .904 129.7 .164
51 Walt Bellamy 1962 1975 1043 37.3 20.1 13.7 2.4 0.7 0.6 .516 .632 130.0 .160
52 Tiny Archibald 1971 1984 876 35.6 18.8 2.3 7.4 1.1 0.1 .467 .224 .810 83.4 .128
53 Dennis Johnson 1977 1990 1100 32.7 14.1 3.9 5.0 1.3 0.6 .445 .172 .797 82.6 .110
54 Reggie Miller 1988 2005 1389 34.3 18.2 3.0 3.0 1.1 0.2 .471 .395 .888 174.4 .176
55 Dirk Nowitzki 1999 2015 1265 35.5 22.2 7.9 2.6 0.9 0.9 .475 .383 .879 192.0 .205
56 Connie Hawkins 1970 1976 499 34.5 16.5 8.0 4.1 1.2 0.8 .467 .785 47.5 .132
57 Dave Bing 1967 1978 901 36.4 20.3 3.8 6.0 1.3 0.2 .441 .775 68.8 .101
58 James Worthy 1983 1994 926 32.4 17.6 5.1 3.0 1.1 0.7 .521 .241 .769 81.2 .130
59 Hal Greer 1959 1973 1122 35.5 19.2 5.0 4.0 .452 .801 102.7 .124
60 Pete Maravich 1971 1980 658 37.0 24.2 4.2 5.4 1.4 0.3 .441 .667 .820 46.7 .092
61 Jack Twyman 1956 1966 823 31.8 19.2 6.6 2.3 .450 .778 75.0 .138
62 Bob Lanier 1971 1984 959 33.5 20.1 10.1 3.1 1.1 1.5 .514 .154 .767 117.1 .175
63 David Thompson 1977 1984 509 32.0 22.1 3.8 3.2 0.9 0.8 .504 .277 .778 50.8 .150
64 Joe Fulks 1947 1954 489 23.4 16.4 5.3 1.2 .302 .766 29.2 -0.045
65 Sam Jones 1958 1969 871 27.9 17.7 4.9 2.5 .456 .803 92.3 .182
66 Gus Johnson 1964 1973 581 34.7 17.1 12.7 2.7 .440 .699 35.8 .085
67 Robert Parish 1977 1997 1611 28.4 14.5 9.1 1.4 0.8 1.5 .537 .000 .721 147.0 .154
68 Tom Heinsohn 1957 1965 654 29.4 18.6 8.8 2.0 .405 .790 60.0 .150
69 Bernard King 1978 1993 874 33.7 22.5 5.8 3.3 1.0 0.3 .518 .172 .730 75.4 .123
70 Bill Sharman 1951 1961 711 32.0 17.8 3.9 3.0 .426 .883 82.8 .178
71 Paul Arizin 1951 1962 713 38.4 22.8 8.6 2.3 .421 .810 108.8 .183
72 Lenny Wilkens 1961 1975 1077 35.3 16.5 4.7 6.7 1.3 0.2 .432 .774 95.5 .120
73 Alonzo Mourning 1993 2008 838 31.0 17.1 8.5 1.1 0.5 2.8 .527 .247 .692 89.7 .166
74 Bill Walton 1975 1987 468 28.3 13.3 10.5 3.4 0.8 2.2 .521 .000 .660 39.3 .142
75 Neil Johnston 1952 1959 516 35.5 19.4 11.3 2.5 .444 .768 92.0 .241
76 Dave DeBusschere 1963 1974 875 35.7 16.1 11.0 2.9 0.9 0.5 .432 .699 60.8 .093
77 Paul Pierce 1999 2015 1250 35.5 20.7 5.8 3.7 1.4 0.6 .447 .371 .806 149.1 .161
78 Joe Dumars 1986 1999 1018 34.5 16.1 2.2 4.5 0.9 0.1 .460 .382 .843 86.2 .118
79 Ray Allen 1997 2014 1300 35.6 18.9 4.1 3.4 1.1 0.2 .452 .400 .894 145.1 .150
80 Chris Webber 1994 2008 831 37.1 20.7 9.8 4.2 1.4 1.4 .479 .299 .649 84.7 .132
81 Ed Macauley 1950 1959 641 35.7 17.5 7.5 3.2 .436 .761 100.4 .196
82 Alex English 1977 1991 1193 31.9 21.5 5.5 3.6 0.9 0.7 .507 .217 .832 100.7 .127
83 Adrian Dantley 1977 1991 955 35.8 24.3 5.7 3.0 1.0 0.2 .540 .171 .818 134.2 .189
84 Artis Gilmore 1977 1988 909 32.7 17.1 10.1 2.0 0.5 1.9 .599 .077 .713 107.4 .174
85 Cliff Hagan 1957 1966 745 29.2 18.0 6.9 3.0 .450 .798 75.1 .166
86 Dwight Howard 2005 2015 809 35.6 18.1 12.7 1.5 1.0 2.1 .579 .104 .573 106.7 .178
87 Tim Hardaway 1990 2003 867 35.3 17.7 3.3 8.2 1.6 0.1 .431 .355 .782 85.0 .133
88 Chris Mullin 1986 2001 986 32.6 18.2 4.1 3.5 1.6 0.6 .509 .384 .865 93.1 .139
89 Mitch Richmond 1989 2002 976 35.2 21.0 3.9 3.5 1.2 0.3 .455 .388 .850 79.3 .111
90 Sidney Moncrief 1980 1991 767 30.2 15.6 4.7 3.6 1.2 0.3 .502 .284 .831 90.3 .187
91 Bob Dandridge 1970 1982 839 35.2 18.5 6.8 3.4 1.3 0.6 .484 .167 .780 80.3 .131
92 Bob Love 1967 1977 789 31.8 17.6 5.9 1.4 0.8 0.2 .429 .805 50.4 .096
93 Jim Pollard 1949 1955 438 35.4 13.2 7.8 3.2 .360 .750 34.9 .093
94 Spencer Haywood 1971 1983 760 33.7 19.2 9.3 1.8 0.6 1.1 .465 .125 .800 61.4 .115
95 Dikembe Mutombo 1992 2009 1196 30.8 9.8 10.3 1.0 0.4 2.8 .518 .000 .684 117.0 .153
96 Pau Gasol 2002 2015 983 35.5 18.3 9.4 3.2 0.5 1.7 .513 .278 .753 123.5 .170

[ISHGoat]

http://i.imgur.com/jiMTzuN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/8wvKoJL.jpg
....

[kennethgriffin]

....


i dont get it

so youre saying lebron stole one of kobes mvps?

[ISHGoat]

i dont get it

so youre saying lebron stole one of kobes mvps?

kobe is the best player in the league only 2 years/18 or whatever

lebron is 5/11

[SouBeachTalents]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/slam_500_greatest.html

1 Michael Jordan 1985 2003 1072 38.3 30.1 6.2 5.3 2.3 0.8 .497 .327 .835 214.0 .250
2 Wilt Chamberlain 1960 1973 1045 45.8 30.1 22.9 4.4 .540 .511 247.3 .248
3 Bill Russell 1957 1969 963 42.3 15.1 22.5 4.3 .440 .561 163.5 .193
4 Shaquille O'Neal 1993 2011 1207 34.7 23.7 10.9 2.5 0.6 2.3 .582 .045 .527 181.7 .208
5 Oscar Robertson 1961 1974 1040 42.2 25.7 7.5 9.5 1.1 0.1 .485 .838 189.2 .207
6 Magic Johnson 1980 1996 906 36.7 19.5 7.2 11.2 1.9 0.4 .520 .303 .848 155.8 .225
7 Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1970 1989 1560 36.8 24.6 11.2 3.6 0.9 2.6 .559 .056 .721 273.4 .228
8 Tim Duncan 1998 2015 1331 34.4 19.5 11.0 3.1 0.7 2.2 .506 .181 .696 201.2 .211
9 Larry Bird 1980 1992 897 38.4 24.3 10.0 6.3 1.7 0.8 .496 .376 .886 145.8 .203
10 Kobe Bryant 1997 2015 1280 36.5 25.4 5.3 4.8 1.5 0.5 .451 .334 .837 173.1 .178
11 Jerry West 1961 1974 932 39.2 27.0 5.8 6.7 2.6 0.7 .474 .814 162.6 .213
12 Elgin Baylor 1959 1972 846 40.0 27.4 13.5 4.3 .431 .780 104.2 .148
13 Hakeem Olajuwon 1985 2002 1238 35.7 21.8 11.1 2.5 1.7 3.1 .512 .202 .712 162.8 .177
14 Bob Pettit 1955 1965 792 38.8 26.4 16.2 3.0 .436 .761 136.0 .213
15 Moses Malone 1977 1995 1329 33.9 20.6 12.2 1.4 0.8 1.3 .491 .100 .769 167.1 .178
16 Julius Erving 1977 1987 836 34.3 22.0 6.7 3.9 1.8 1.5 .507 .261 .777 106.2 .178
17 John Havlicek 1963 1978 1270 36.6 20.8 6.3 4.8 1.2 0.3 .439 .815 131.7 .136
18 Karl Malone 1986 2004 1476 37.2 25.0 10.1 3.6 1.4 0.8 .516 .274 .742 234.6 .205
19 Isiah Thomas 1982 1994 979 36.3 19.2 3.6 9.3 1.9 0.3 .452 .290 .759 80.7 .109
20 Charles Barkley 1985 2000 1073 36.7 22.1 11.7 3.9 1.5 0.8 .541 .266 .735 177.2 .216
21 Rick Barry 1966 1980 794 36.3 23.2 6.5 5.1 2.0 0.5 .449 .330 .900 93.4 .156
22 John Stockton 1985 2003 1504 31.8 13.1 2.7 10.5 2.2 0.2 .515 .384 .826 207.7 .209
23 Elvin Hayes 1969 1984 1303 38.4 21.0 12.5 1.8 1.0 2.0 .452 .147 .670 120.8 .116
24 Bob Cousy 1951 1970 924 35.3 18.4 5.2 7.5 .375 .803 91.1 .139
25 David Robinson 1990 2003 987 34.7 21.1 10.6 2.5 1.4 3.0 .518 .250 .736 178.7 .250
26 Kevin McHale 1981 1993 971 31.0 17.9 7.3 1.7 0.4 1.7 .554 .261 .798 113.0 .180
27 Scottie Pippen 1988 2004 1178 34.9 16.1 6.4 5.2 2.0 0.8 .473 .326 .704 125.1 .146
28 Jason Kidd 1995 2013 1391 36.0 12.6 6.3 8.7 1.9 0.3 .400 .349 .785 138.6 .133
29 George Mikan 1949 1956 439 34.4 23.1 13.4 2.8 .404 .782 108.7 .249
30 Kevin Garnett 1996 2015 1424 35.0 18.2 10.2 3.8 1.3 1.4 .497 .276 .790 190.4 .183
31 LeBron James 2004 2015 911 39.3 27.3 7.1 6.9 1.7 0.8 .496 .342 .745 178.9 .240
32 Willis Reed 1965 1974 650 35.5 18.7 12.9 1.8 0.6 1.1 .476 .747 74.9 .156
33 Wes Unseld 1969 1981 984 36.4 10.8 14.0 3.9 1.1 0.6 .509 .500 .633 110.1 .147
34 Nate Thurmond 1964 1977 964 37.2 15.0 15.0 2.7 0.5 2.1 .421 .667 78.0 .104
35 Dolph Schayes 1950 1964 996 34.4 18.5 12.1 3.1 .380 .849 142.4 .192
36 Walt Frazier 1968 1980 825 37.5 18.9 5.9 6.1 1.9 0.2 .490 .000 .786 113.5 .176
37 Patrick Ewing 1986 2002 1183 34.3 21.0 9.8 1.9 1.0 2.4 .504 .152 .740 126.4 .150
38 Jerry Lucas 1964 1974 829 38.8 17.0 15.6 3.3 0.4 0.3 .499 .783 98.4 .147
39 Gary Payton 1991 2007 1335 35.3 16.3 3.9 6.7 1.8 0.2 .466 .317 .729 145.5 .148
40 Allen Iverson 1997 2010 914 41.1 26.7 3.7 6.2 2.2 0.2 .425 .313 .780 99.0 .126
41 Billy Cunningham 1966 1976 654 34.3 20.8 10.1 4.0 1.2 0.5 .446 .720 63.2 .135
42 Clyde Drexler 1984 1998 1086 34.6 20.4 6.1 5.6 2.0 0.7 .472 .318 .788 135.6 .173
43 Dominique Wilkins 1983 1999 1074 35.5 24.8 6.7 2.5 1.3 0.6 .461 .319 .811 117.5 .148
44 Dave Cowens 1971 1983 766 38.6 17.6 13.6 3.8 1.1 0.9 .460 .071 .783 86.3 .140
45 George Gervin 1977 1986 791 33.5 26.2 4.6 2.8 1.2 0.8 .511 .297 .844 88.1 .159
46 Bob McAdoo 1973 1986 852 33.2 22.1 9.4 2.3 1.0 1.5 .503 .081 .754 89.1 .151
47 Earl Monroe 1968 1980 926 32.0 18.8 3.0 3.9 1.0 0.3 .464 .807 77.4 .125
48 Dennis Rodman 1987 2000 911 31.7 7.3 13.1 1.8 0.7 0.6 .521 .231 .584 89.8 .150
49 Dwyane Wade 2004 2015 781 36.2 24.1 4.9 5.9 1.7 0.9 .490 .289 .765 108.9 .185
50 Steve Nash 1997 2014 1217 31.3 14.3 3.0 8.5 0.7 0.1 .490 .428 .904 129.7 .164
51 Walt Bellamy 1962 1975 1043 37.3 20.1 13.7 2.4 0.7 0.6 .516 .632 130.0 .160
52 Tiny Archibald 1971 1984 876 35.6 18.8 2.3 7.4 1.1 0.1 .467 .224 .810 83.4 .128
53 Dennis Johnson 1977 1990 1100 32.7 14.1 3.9 5.0 1.3 0.6 .445 .172 .797 82.6 .110
54 Reggie Miller 1988 2005 1389 34.3 18.2 3.0 3.0 1.1 0.2 .471 .395 .888 174.4 .176
55 Dirk Nowitzki 1999 2015 1265 35.5 22.2 7.9 2.6 0.9 0.9 .475 .383 .879 192.0 .205
56 Connie Hawkins 1970 1976 499 34.5 16.5 8.0 4.1 1.2 0.8 .467 .785 47.5 .132
57 Dave Bing 1967 1978 901 36.4 20.3 3.8 6.0 1.3 0.2 .441 .775 68.8 .101
58 James Worthy 1983 1994 926 32.4 17.6 5.1 3.0 1.1 0.7 .521 .241 .769 81.2 .130
59 Hal Greer 1959 1973 1122 35.5 19.2 5.0 4.0 .452 .801 102.7 .124
60 Pete Maravich 1971 1980 658 37.0 24.2 4.2 5.4 1.4 0.3 .441 .667 .820 46.7 .092
61 Jack Twyman 1956 1966 823 31.8 19.2 6.6 2.3 .450 .778 75.0 .138
62 Bob Lanier 1971 1984 959 33.5 20.1 10.1 3.1 1.1 1.5 .514 .154 .767 117.1 .175
63 David Thompson 1977 1984 509 32.0 22.1 3.8 3.2 0.9 0.8 .504 .277 .778 50.8 .150
64 Joe Fulks 1947 1954 489 23.4 16.4 5.3 1.2 .302 .766 29.2 -0.045
65 Sam Jones 1958 1969 871 27.9 17.7 4.9 2.5 .456 .803 92.3 .182
66 Gus Johnson 1964 1973 581 34.7 17.1 12.7 2.7 .440 .699 35.8 .085
67 Robert Parish 1977 1997 1611 28.4 14.5 9.1 1.4 0.8 1.5 .537 .000 .721 147.0 .154
68 Tom Heinsohn 1957 1965 654 29.4 18.6 8.8 2.0 .405 .790 60.0 .150
69 Bernard King 1978 1993 874 33.7 22.5 5.8 3.3 1.0 0.3 .518 .172 .730 75.4 .123
70 Bill Sharman 1951 1961 711 32.0 17.8 3.9 3.0 .426 .883 82.8 .178
71 Paul Arizin 1951 1962 713 38.4 22.8 8.6 2.3 .421 .810 108.8 .183
72 Lenny Wilkens 1961 1975 1077 35.3 16.5 4.7 6.7 1.3 0.2 .432 .774 95.5 .120
73 Alonzo Mourning 1993 2008 838 31.0 17.1 8.5 1.1 0.5 2.8 .527 .247 .692 89.7 .166
74 Bill Walton 1975 1987 468 28.3 13.3 10.5 3.4 0.8 2.2 .521 .000 .660 39.3 .142
75 Neil Johnston 1952 1959 516 35.5 19.4 11.3 2.5 .444 .768 92.0 .241
76 Dave DeBusschere 1963 1974 875 35.7 16.1 11.0 2.9 0.9 0.5 .432 .699 60.8 .093
77 Paul Pierce 1999 2015 1250 35.5 20.7 5.8 3.7 1.4 0.6 .447 .371 .806 149.1 .161
78 Joe Dumars 1986 1999 1018 34.5 16.1 2.2 4.5 0.9 0.1 .460 .382 .843 86.2 .118
79 Ray Allen 1997 2014 1300 35.6 18.9 4.1 3.4 1.1 0.2 .452 .400 .894 145.1 .150
80 Chris Webber 1994 2008 831 37.1 20.7 9.8 4.2 1.4 1.4 .479 .299 .649 84.7 .132
81 Ed Macauley 1950 1959 641 35.7 17.5 7.5 3.2 .436 .761 100.4 .196
82 Alex English 1977 1991 1193 31.9 21.5 5.5 3.6 0.9 0.7 .507 .217 .832 100.7 .127
83 Adrian Dantley 1977 1991 955 35.8 24.3 5.7 3.0 1.0 0.2 .540 .171 .818 134.2 .189
84 Artis Gilmore 1977 1988 909 32.7 17.1 10.1 2.0 0.5 1.9 .599 .077 .713 107.4 .174
85 Cliff Hagan 1957 1966 745 29.2 18.0 6.9 3.0 .450 .798 75.1 .166
86 Dwight Howard 2005 2015 809 35.6 18.1 12.7 1.5 1.0 2.1 .579 .104 .573 106.7 .178
87 Tim Hardaway 1990 2003 867 35.3 17.7 3.3 8.2 1.6 0.1 .431 .355 .782 85.0 .133
88 Chris Mullin 1986 2001 986 32.6 18.2 4.1 3.5 1.6 0.6 .509 .384 .865 93.1 .139
89 Mitch Richmond 1989 2002 976 35.2 21.0 3.9 3.5 1.2 0.3 .455 .388 .850 79.3 .111
90 Sidney Moncrief 1980 1991 767 30.2 15.6 4.7 3.6 1.2 0.3 .502 .284 .831 90.3 .187
91 Bob Dandridge 1970 1982 839 35.2 18.5 6.8 3.4 1.3 0.6 .484 .167 .780 80.3 .131
92 Bob Love 1967 1977 789 31.8 17.6 5.9 1.4 0.8 0.2 .429 .805 50.4 .096
93 Jim Pollard 1949 1955 438 35.4 13.2 7.8 3.2 .360 .750 34.9 .093
94 Spencer Haywood 1971 1983 760 33.7 19.2 9.3 1.8 0.6 1.1 .465 .125 .800 61.4 .115
95 Dikembe Mutombo 1992 2009 1196 30.8 9.8 10.3 1.0 0.4 2.8 .518 .000 .684 117.0 .153
96 Pau Gasol 2002 2015 983 35.5 18.3 9.4 3.2 0.5 1.7 .513 .278 .753 123.5 .170

Lol, that was written like 4-5 years ago, unless you think Dirk is 55th, Wade is 49th, LeBron is 31st, and Durant isn't top 100

[kennethgriffin]

kobe is the best player in the league only 2 years/18 or whatever

lebron is 5/11


so youre saying lebron stole one of kobes mvps?

[kennethgriffin]

Lol, that was written like 4-5 years ago, unless you think Dirk is 55th, Wade is 49th, LeBron is 31st, and Durant isn't top 100

ok then use the one above it thats current. pau climbed a whole 9 spots in 5 years

[Taller than CP3]

It will look bad for Kobe showing Pau doesn't need him, just like when it looked bad for Shaq when Kobe won without him, just like when Kobe won without Shaq and it looked bad for him.

[COnDEMnED]

It places him somewhere near D. Wade on the all time list, both above Lebron James.

[Mrofir]

I had work and couldn't be around for this thread to evolve.

Some interesting responses. It's really hard to put Pau up against a guy like Carmelo and decide he should be above him. Even a guy like Amare Stoudemire, with my memories of 7sol and 1\2 a season in ny where he was in the mvp discussion...

Yet Pau is a guy who did his thing rather quietly, and when you look at the resume, it's just all there.