What if Scottie Pippen never existed?

[CavaliersFTW]

How would NBA history be different:

[dubeta]

Well, Wilt would still be a choker.

[Akrazotile]

Kobe moves up a spot

[Sarcastic]

Who?

[jimmybball]

Kobe moves up a spot

So you have Pippen over Kobe, nice.

[DCL]

mj would still have more rings than wilt

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Jordan wouldn't have 6 rings.

He might not have any. Bait, inb4 3ball.

[JohnMax]

1990: I am taking my talents to...

[HomieWeMajor]

Madonna would be alot tighter.

[ISHGoat]

Madonna would be alot tighter.

i think its a myth that puhcee stretches after taking big d

[clipps]

Shaq signs with the Bulls instead of the Lakers. Jordan stays on the Bulls until 2003, Shaq retires a Bull. Kobe becomes irrelevant not making the playoffs until 2006.

[MP.Trey]

Bulls draft KJ and still win a few chips.

[Marchesk]

Who was considered the GOAT until MJ had a few rings? I remember in the late 80s people saying Bird was the best player ever, but how can that be if Kareem, Wilt and Russell are rated ahead of him nowadays?

[jstern]

The Bulls would have 11 men on their team and not even know that it was because Scottie Pippen never came into existence.

But seriously, this is like asking, what if Kobe didn't have Shaq or Gasol, what if Lebron didn't have Wade. Then other players would or would not come to take their position on the team. It doesn't mean that no other star would ever sign with the teams. There are literally billions, well infinite amount of paths that the course of history could take.

[TheReal Kendall]

Phil Jackson would be just another coach, no Shaq/Kobe Lakers, Kings would have a ring, Spurs would have more rings, and Barkley and a few others would have rings.

Kids wouldn't be dying over Jordans also

[jstern]

Who was considered the GOAT until MJ had a few rings? I remember in the late 80s people saying Bird was the best player ever, but how can that be if Kareem, Wilt and Russell are rated ahead of him nowadays?
According to old 80s forum post from even people who didn't like Jordan, and games from right before Jordan won his first ring, he was consider by a lot the GOAT.

None the less you bring up a good point. In games from like 86, 87 that I've watch, some, but not all were saying that Bird could perhaps be the GOAT. I think Bob Cousy called him the GOAT. But perhaps others had Kareem as the GOAT. I have a limited sample size, so I can't say what people were saying back then.

And up until a few years ago, like 5, 6 years ago, perhaps a little more, in almost every top ten list I saw people had Bird ahead of Magic, and that is completely not the case right now.

Shows the ridiculousness of people ranking things. Most of it depends on the moment.

[SpecialQue]

We would have to invent him.

[Micku]

They may get another player to take Pippen's place as a quality second option or MJ would demand to get traded or something.

There could be different things that could happen. Who knows really. This could affect Phil Jax legacy too.

[bizil]

The SF forward position would have looked very different. At least until a G Hill or Bron came around. Before Pippen, there weren't ANY 6'7-6'8 SF's with his combination of skills and athletic ability. He combined Dr. J's size and athletic ability with Hondo's all around skillset.

Pippen was the perfect complement to MJ. He took pressure off of MJ defensively and passing wise. And scoring wise, peak Pip was getting 20-22 points a night. NO OTHER SF in that era could have complemented MJ any better.

I don't think ANY OTHER perimeter player in that era could have gotten the best out of MJ like Pippen. Sure MJ made Pippen better, BUT Pippen was able to help MJ ACROSS the board in a manner no other SF could have.

The Bulls NEVER had the deepest talent on their teams. Hell most of the time in the Finals, the opposing teams had more depth. BUT u had two perimeter players redefining their positions at the same time.

[COnDEMnED]

Maybe Jordans dad would still be alive.

[bigkingsfan]

olden polynice would be a top 25 player

[CavaliersFTW]

The SF forward position would have looked very different. At least until a G Hill or Bron came around. Before Pippen, there weren't ANY 6'7-6'8 SF's with his combination of skills and athletic ability. He combined Dr. J's size and athletic ability with Hondo's all around skillset.

Pippen was the perfect complement to MJ. He took pressure off of MJ defensively and passing wise. And scoring wise, peak Pip was getting 20-22 points a night. NO OTHER SF in that era could have complemented MJ any better.

I don't think ANY OTHER perimeter player in that era could have gotten the best out of MJ like Pippen. Sure MJ made Pippen better, BUT Pippen was able to help MJ ACROSS the board in a manner no other SF could have.

The Bulls NEVER had the deepest talent on their teams. Hell most of the time in the Finals, the opposing teams had more depth. BUT u had two perimeter players redefining their positions at the same time.
Wait though, Dr. J was more skilled than Hondo, a lot more skilled actually so what are you saying he was a lesser skilled Dr. J?

Also he wasn't as athletic as Dr. J either so... lesser skilled less athletic Dr. J?

[greymatter]

Bulls wind up getting Derrick McKey or Kevin Johnson instead. Kevin Johnson never develops into a top 3 PG playing with a ball dominant Jordan. He lacked 3-pt range and wouldn't have been a good fit. He'd have been traded and blossomed elsewhere. McKey would have been a decent fit as a 6th man, but the Bulls wouldn't have been good enough to be anything other than 2nd round fodder unless they managed to acquire another borderline AS caliber player.

Jordan's Bulls likely never progress beyond those late 80s Cavs teams in terms of overall talent. MJ without any titles gets ranked behind Big O all time, somewhere in the mid teens.

[Real14]

Jordan would still have more rings than LeBron and of course still be levels higher than him.

[bizil]

Wait though, Dr. J was more skilled than Hondo, a lot more skilled actually so what are you saying he was a lesser skilled Dr. J?

Also he wasn't as athletic as Dr. J either so... lesser skilled less athletic Dr. J?

Dr. J wasn't a point forward caliber player OR a lockdown defender. Hondo was both of those. I feel Dr. J was the better player than Hondo though. He was a more dominant scorer who was virtually unstoppable. And passing wise, he was NEVER ON HONDO'S LEVEL. Hondo was simply a better ALL AROUND PLAYER across the board. But Doc WAS THE BETTER PLAYER!! There's a difference.

Secondly, Pippen was a freak athlete like Dr. J. with those big hands. The difference was that Doc was more crafty and a more dominant scorer. Pip EASILY qualifies as one of the most freakish athletes to ever play SF. TO THIS DAY!

I never said he was a dominant scorer like Doc. But athletic ability wise, he's on Doc's level. Doc just had more of a killer mentality and craftiness to DOMINATE with his athletic ability.

[CavaliersFTW]

Dr. J wasn't a point forward caliber player OR a lockdown defender. Hondo was both of those. I feel Dr. J was the better player than Hondo though. He was a more dominant scorer who was virtually unstoppable. BUT Doc NEVER MADE an All Defensive team. And passing wise, he was NEVER ON HONDO'S LEVEL. Hondo was simply a better ALL AROUND PLAYER across the board. But Doc WAS THE BETTER PLAYER!! There's a difference.

Secondly, Pippen was a freak athlete like Dr. J. with those big hands. The difference was that Doc was more crafty and a more dominant scorer. Pip EASILY qualifies as one of the most freakish athletes to ever play SF. TO THIS DAY!

I never said he was a dominant scorer like Doc. But athletic ability wise, he's on Doc's level. Doc just had more of a killer mentality and craftiness to DOMINATE with his athletic ability.
In my eyes Doc has superior body control than Pippen both on and off the ground, and on top of that appears to be a better leaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50yUKl-4uUU

From what I know about their measurements Pippen is about an inch taller than Doc, might have longer arms though Dr. J's armspan is unknown. Docs hands are bigger than Pips though Pippen does have big enough hands that it's probably not that big a deal. But Doc just looks more athletic to me. I don't think Pippen is any more freakish an athlete at SF than Elgin Baylor, Doc, Lebron, Durant, or even James Worthy, Wilkins or Tmac what makes him so markedly better than them to you? They've all got unique physical gifts with plenty of overlap in some of them.

I get what you're saying on the defensive end with Havlicek and facilitating as far as where he directs his abilities. I think Dr. J played a complete game. Defensively he might not have been as dialed in but then again he didn't play on the same teams as Havlicek and have the same roles.

[DonDadda59]

Germany wins WWII. The Third Reich lasts for 2,000 years. Wilt doesn't choke in the finals and wins 11 rings. Brave New World.

[dubeta]

Well, Jordan was 1-9 in the years before Pippen

So 1-9 over those 3 years


Let's say MJ plays 15 seasons

15/3 = 5

1-9 * 5 = 5-45



Jordan would end up 5-45 in the playoffs


And y'all thought CP3 was a choker :lol

[bizil]

In my eyes Doc has superior body control than Pippen both on and off the ground, and on top of that appears to be a better leaper.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=50yUKl-4uUU

From what I know about their measurements Pippen is about an inch taller than Doc, might have longer arms though Dr. J's armspan is unknown. Docs hands are bigger than Pips though Pippen does have big enough hands that it's probably not that big a deal. But Doc just looks more athletic to me. I don't think Pippen is any more freakish an athlete at SF than Elgin Baylor, Doc, Lebron, Durant, or even James Worthy, Wilkins or Tmac what makes him so markedly better than them to you? They've all got unique physical gifts with plenty of overlap in some of them.

I get what you're saying on the defensive end with Havlicek and facilitating as far as where he directs his abilities. I think Dr. J played a complete game. Defensively he might not have been as dialed in but then again he didn't play on the same teams as Havlicek and have the same roles.

I don't think Pippen is more of a freakish athlete than Nique, T Mac, Lebron, or Doc. But he qualifies as a freakish athlete. I'm fine if u think Dr. J is more athletic than Pippen. But Pip EASILY qualifies as a freakish athlete.

My premise in my initial post was that if u combined Dr. J type size and athletic ability to go with Hondo's all around skillset, the SF u would come up with was Pippen. Not saying he's a carbon copy of either in that regard. But if u combined the two facets together, Pippen would be a great example of that.

And Hondo and Doc were two different small forwards. I think Doc peak wise and GOAT wise is the better player. However, Hondo, Pippen, and Lebron are the gold standard for great two way small forwards. And to top it off, all had point forward kind of players. Those guys could get u 7-8 assists a night. As great as Doc was, he wasn't the two way threat Hondo was.

[hahaitme]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan's KILLER INSTINCT would have kicked in without a sidekick and he would have actually won 12 rings + 12 FMVP's surpassing Bill Russell.

[AirFederer]

What if Bill Russel never existed?

Would Wilt still find a way to not win more rings?

We know from LAZ that all his HOF teammates and coaches were terrible.

[LAZERUSS]

What if Bill Russel never existed?

Would Wilt still find a way to not win more rings?

We know from LAZ that all his HOF teammates and coaches were terrible.

A better "what-if?"...

[QUOTE]During summer vacations Chamberlain worked as a bellhop in Kutsher's Hotel. Subsequently, owners Milton and Helen Kutsher kept up a lifelong friendship with Wilt, and according to their son Mark, "They were his second set of parents."[19] Red Auerbach, the coach of the Boston Celtics, spotted the talented teenager at Kutscher's and had him play 1-on-1 against Kansas University standout and national champion, B. H. Born, elected the Most Valuable Player of the 1953 NCAA Finals. Chamberlain won 25

[blablabla]

Who was considered the GOAT until MJ had a few rings? I remember in the late 80s people saying Bird was the best player ever, but how can that be if Kareem, Wilt and Russell are rated ahead of him nowadays?
Jordan was considered the goat before he won rings

[NZStreetBaller]

What if goku never exsisted:eek:

[VengefulAngel]

MJ ends up with 3-4 rings.

[pauk]

Nothing except that it would have changed the course of Jordans career and hence accolades and hence ranking all-time.....

It would have been either:

1. Pippen being replaced with somebody else good enough so Jordan could have still ended up with as many or perhaps less rings, who knows... maybe even more, but i doubt that, he would have needed somebody like Shaq and even if he would have got him he would have been ready to risk sacrifice some fmvp & mvp here and there....

OR

2. If the above doesnt happen i can guarantee Jordan (as notoriously discontenting he was towards bad performing teammates and his demeanor/will to win) would get fed up after 7 years and counting, of zero help, not enough to win a championship at least, he would be in the same exact situation as Lebron was (sorry for bringing his name up, but i couldnt find a finer example) and start considering weighing his options, he would venture out seeking greener pastures... i doubt a player of that stature (especially Jordan) would be fine with not taking advantage of his talent, career potential and just stay with scrubs for 18 years "for the fans, to be loyal and beloved" and end up ringless, certainly would be nowhere near GOAT lol... this aint highschool... its a business, all those guys who you think were "LOYAL" in the NBA were loyal only because the Franchise gave them a very nice reason to be Loyal....