For all the people who think "The modern athlete blah blah blah...

[Showtime80']

You should be watching right now a little dynamo from Argentina named Lionel Messi against Bayern Munich absolutely shred one of the best 4 teams in the world basically on pure IQ and skill!

What's funny is that if you compare his ATHLETICISM to past greats going back to the 60's like Garrincha, Pele, Eusebio, 70's Rivelino, Kempes and Cruif, up to the 90's with Romario or Ronaldo (el fenomeno) and even today against C. Ronaldo it really pales in comparison to the physical athletic attributes those guys had/have.

And what does this skinny, 5'7 dude do against "modern" "sophisticated" defenders? DOMINATE!!!

Modern athleticism in soccer like in basketball, OVERRATED!!! IQ, skill and fundamentals will beat it EVERY time!

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

lol Messi is one of the fastest players in the world and hes very athletic

anyway this is a basketball forum, a real sport. go watch poverty flopper somewhere else

[Im Still Ballin]

Agreed. The athletic potential of players today is no different than the last 30-40 years. Training methods, science and nutrition, and PEDs have advanced in leaps and bounds. Not to mention that todays NBA rules benefit perimeter players who are naturally more athletic than larger frontcourt players that dominated the league prior to 2005 when hand-checking was eliminated. Just take a look at what Stu Jackson had to say about it;

NBA.com: Since the hand-checking rule was interpreted differently beginning in the 2004-05 season, the game has opened up. Players are penetrating and the floor is spread. As a result, scoring has risen every season. Was this anticipated back in 2004?

Stu Jackson: No. The scoring increase was not our goal. Our objective was to allow for more offensive freedom by not allowing defenders to hand-, forearm- or body-check ball handlers. By doing so, we encouraged more dribble penetration. As players penetrated more, it produced higher quality shots for the ball handler as well as shots for teammates on passes back out to perimeter. When NBA players get higher quality shots -- having more time to shoot -- they tend to make more of them.

NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

Stu Jackson: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

[ralph_i_el]

Soccer is a low contact sport. Messi is fast as hell and his low center of gravity allows him to be extremely agile...

[Showtime80']

The "modern NBA" allows LESS contact than any other time in its history!

[Rose'sACL]

The "modern NBA" allows LESS contact than any other time in its history!
but defense is better. i know someone who liked the 80s probably hates defense but it the truth. you can blame guys like thibs for that.

[Showtime80']

Having inept offenses, no low post play and no fast breaks DOES NOT make good defense!

I was watching the Hawks/Wizards game 2 the other night and it is amazing how simplified and slow those offenses are! Basically the guards got to the paint whenever they wanted which is pathetic in itself but their half court offenses consistent in swinging the ball around for 15 to 20 seconds trying to get off a damn tree pointer!!!! That's your great defense for you, offenses with no post game or fast break wasting more than half of the shot clock to shot a long shot!

The 80's Celtics/Lakers or 90's Bulls would absolutely murder this modern style!

[outbreak]

:facepalm Messi is very athletic and well suited to the sport he plays.

[Rose'sACL]

Having inept offenses, no low post play and no fast breaks DOES NOT make good defense!

I was watching the Hawks/Wizards game 2 the other night and it is amazing how simplified and slow those offenses are! Basically the guards got to the paint whenever they wanted which is pathetic in itself but their half court offenses consistent in swinging the ball around for 15 to 20 seconds trying to get off a damn tree pointer!!!! That's your great defense for you, offenses with no post game or fast break wasting more than half of the shot clock to shot a long shot!

The 80's Celtics/Lakers or 90's Bulls would absolutely murder this modern style!
pick 3 all time great teams and then compare them to wizards and hawks and act like an expert saying that those all time great teams would murder hawks and wizards.

[ralph_i_el]

Having inept offenses, no low post play and no fast breaks DOES NOT make good defense!

I was watching the Hawks/Wizards game 2 the other night and it is amazing how simplified and slow those offenses are! Basically the guards got to the paint whenever they wanted which is pathetic in itself but their half court offenses consistent in swinging the ball around for 15 to 20 seconds trying to get off a damn tree pointer!!!! That's your great defense for you, offenses with no post game or fast break wasting more than half of the shot clock to shot a long shot!

The 80's Celtics/Lakers or 90's Bulls would absolutely murder this modern style!
:facepalm you can't be this dumb. The guy that carries the entire wizards offense was not playing.

"no fastbreak" when the best fastbreak player in the league is out with a numb, swollen hand....no ****ing duh. Which nostalgia blind old fart's alt is this anyways?

Post ups are ISO, ISO is harder to do because defenses are free to position themselves to beat them.

[TemporaMutantur]

Stop juxtaposing two sports that are different in every regard.

They both have their merit and respective world-class athletes.

Football is the most popular sport the world for a reason. I personally prefer basketball by far, but this isn't a XBOX v. PS debate, they can co-exist.

As to the other point, the average modern athlete is without a doubt at a higher advantage with modern medicine, training, game development, etc.

Every art is supposed to get more intricate and excel as it moves forward, because part of being part of it is building upon the remnants of others. Athletics aren't passive, they are active.

[TiagoSimoes]

What's funny is that if you compare his ATHLETICISM to past greats going back to the 60's like Garrincha, Pele, Eusebio, 70's Rivelino, Kempes and Cruif, up to the 90's with Romario or Ronaldo (el fenomeno) and even today against C. Ronaldo it really pales in comparison to the physical athletic attributes those guys had/have.

And what does this skinny, 5'7 dude do against "modern" "sophisticated" defenders? DOMINATE!!!


Messi is more athletic than those guys. lol at romario and cruyff. like ralph said, messi is fast as hell and has a small center of gravity and elite balance aswell.. his accelaration is elite, he is small but is strong considering his small size.

besides all that u were right on the iq and skill part, which are his best features. he is easily the best player in the world, and he is possibly the best ever(he is in my opinion). Art in a grass field.

[FKAri]

Cruyff was nothing but an athletic brute. The Gerald Green of soccer.

[Relinquish]

Having inept offenses, no low post play and no fast breaks DOES NOT make good defense!

I was watching the Hawks/Wizards game 2 the other night and it is amazing how simplified and slow those offenses are! Basically the guards got to the paint whenever they wanted which is pathetic in itself but their half court offenses consistent in swinging the ball around for 15 to 20 seconds trying to get off a damn tree pointer!!!! That's your great defense for you, offenses with no post game or fast break wasting more than half of the shot clock to shot a long shot!

The 80's Celtics/Lakers or 90's Bulls would absolutely murder this modern style!

All I see here is stupid conclusions.

[sundizz]

By this rationale is Flash not athletic compared to other people with powers, like Ironman?