Lebron isn't a good at isos

[3ball]

Because he takes too long - the NBA's player-tracking data (http://stats.nba.com/league/player/shots/#!/?sectionName=Touch%20Time%20Range&section=TouchTimeRange&range=Touch%206%2B%20Seconds&sort=FGA_FREQUENCY&dir=1&Season=2014-15&SeasonType=Regular%20Season) shows that a whopping 38% of Lebron's points are scored by taking longer than 6 seconds - that's 8th in entire league..

Also, this stat is a point guard stat - Lebron and Harden were the only non-PG's in the top 50.. But Lebron has always played point guard for his team, as he did alongside Mo Williams and Chalmers.

Unfortunately for Lebron, the best isolators aren't players that take a long time by use existing, live-dribbles and a ton of screen rolls to make their moves (point guards).. The best isolators like Melo, Bird, and Worthy use off-ball and post/triple threat moves that enable them to isolate QUICKLY (http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cebaec04eb04d06fba2884406be8c52f.gif) - quick isolations allow them to isolate more often and more successfully than players that use a live-dribble and screens to make their move (ball-dominators/point guards)..

In the playoffs, a guy like Vandeweghe (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=360034) repeatedly crushed Michael Cooper and James Worthy in isolations with refined shooting touch and sophisticated off-ball play, triple-threat, and post-ups.. But Lebron doesn't even isolate as well as his fellow ball-dominators, like say Magic Johnson.. But at least Magic got twice the assists to justify his non-GOAT iso/scoring ability.. Whereas Lebron's assist averages are closer to the Bird/MJ level, despite his point-guard level ball-domination.
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[ISHGoat]

Lebron is a PG

[sd3035]

also because he has no real moves other than charging towards the basket for a layup

[RRR3]

LeBron is very good at isos. There have been better but that doesn't mean he's not a super productive isolation scorer.

[imnew09]

Lebron holds the ball for 18 seconds, either drive in and kick it out with about 3 secs left, or brick a shot :facepalm I rather watch James Harden then Lebron

[sd3035]

Lebron holds the ball for 18 seconds, either drive in and kick it out with about 3 secs left, or brick a shot :facepalm I rather watch James Harden then Lebron

forced assist or missed FG which isn't on him

A good strategy for a stat obsessed fraud who can't pass the eye test

[Le Shaqtus]

LeBron is very good at isos. There have been better but that doesn't mean he's not a super productive isolation scorer.

He isn't "very" good at isos... There's a reason teams dare him to shoot.

He will have games where his isos will be on point, but those are few and far between, his iso game isn't consistent enough, he barely has any moves besides like 2 post moves, barreling into the lane.

That being said, it's good that he's not a great iso scorer, because his talents lie in ball movement and being a PG, which is way more valuable for someone his size.

[Rose'sACL]

He isn't "very" good at isos... There's a reason teams dare him to shoot.

He will have games where his isos will be on point, but those are few and far between, his iso game isn't consistent enough, he barely has any moves besides like 2 post moves, barreling into the lane.

That being said, it's good that he's not a great iso scorer, because his talents lie in ball movement and being a PG, which is way more valuable for someone his size.
wtf are you talking about? he is one of the best at ISOs in the history of the league. Have you guys not watched the games or do you live in some other world?

[keep-itreal]

lebron crab dribbles his way to the basket

[Haymaker]

Bron got good ball security but his handles are average. He can't do any sort of crossover move, his footwork is erratic.

[Trollsmasher]

attracting solid attention for someone who is not good at isos

http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png

[jlip]

I would love to have a poor isolation scorer on my team who after 11 seasons has the 4th highest regular season and 5th highest playoff scoring averages in league history, a regular season scoring title, and two playoff scoring titles.

[Fudge]

I'm good at asos

[sd3035]

I would love to have a poor isolation scorer on my team who after 11 seasons has the 4th highest regular season and 5th highest playoff scoring averages in league history, a regular season scoring title, and two playoff scoring titles.

I'd rather have MJ

[jlip]

I'd rather have MJ

OK:confusedshrug:

[Megabox!]

I'd rather have MJ
Good for you

[Megabox!]

attracting solid attention for someone who is not good at isos

http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png
He attracts the entire starting 5 whenever he got the ball last night. They were shading him like crazy whenever he was in the post

[tmacattack33]

OP seems to have some strange logic.

He probably looked at this stat and sat there and stared at it for a while and thought his hardest to come up with a reason how this stat can be used against Lebron.

And so he came up with some weak sh*t like this thread.

Putting up shots quickly doesn't mean you are good at isolating. WTF.

[funnystuff]

"Lebron isn't a good at isos" :wtf:

OP wishes he could brush the tip of his tongue against 50 year old MJs toe hairs.

[SpecialQue]

Stop acting like a dickhead.

[Lebron23]

Stop acting like a dickhead.


This

OP needs to watch Pre Miami LeBron.

[ClipperRevival]

It's common knowledge that his iso game has never been that great. At least when compared to the all time bests like MJ, Kobe, Wade, etc. And let me clarify what iso is. That's when the D is set and his defender is set. So that does not include semi-trans or p&r, where he does a lot of his damage. But in iso situations, Lebron does not have a set of go too moves that he can rely on to consistently break down a set defender. Most of his damage comes within the flow of the game, not when his defender is set. Having said that, I am not saying his iso game sucks. But it clearly falls short of other great iso players.

That's why I laugh when people say who would win one on one vs him and Kobe. Kobe's bread and butter was based off iso situations. That's what he does.

[Prime_Shaq]

His dribbling moves and footwork aren't very good (I hate it when he tries to do a shitty crossover) but I don't think there is anybody in the history of the NBA with his combination of size and speed which makes him such a defensive nightmare, combo that with his great court vision. He doesn't just break down one defender but breaks down the team's defense.

[Dragonyeuw]

Lebron's at this best when he's full speed ahead, noone can match his size-athleticism. Take a disciplined defensive team with a really good perimeter defender in a half court setting(Spurs, Leonard) who makes him really on jumpers, and his inability to create in iso off the dribble becomes apparent. Its why Kobe had great success against them in his prime, far greater variation of moves and iso ability.

[Kvnzhangyay]

It's common knowledge that his iso game has never been that great. At least when compared to the all time bests like MJ, Kobe, Wade, etc. And let me clarify what iso is. That's when the D is set and his defender is set. So that does not include semi-trans or p&r, where he does a lot of his damage. But in iso situations, Lebron does not have a set of go too moves that he can rely on to consistently break down a set defender. Most of his damage comes within the flow of the game, not when his defender is set. Having said that, I am not saying his iso game sucks. But it clearly falls short of other great iso players.

That's why I laugh when people say who would win one on one vs him and Kobe. Kobe's bread and butter was based off iso situations. That's what he does.

Strangely enough, his iso post game is actually really good now, but he often settles with a jumper in isos for some reason. (probably based on the offensive system and how Blatt wants him to play)

[ClipperRevival]

You can argue that at his peak, Kobe was the greatest offensive player in history for wing players. What he had over MJ was his ability to get hot from deep. That added an additional explosive element to his game that MJ didn't consistently have. That explains his 81 points. 62 points in 3 quarters and outscore a team by himself. 4 straight games of 50+ points. 13 straights games of 40+ points. These are ridiculous peak moments.

I think he was the most complete, offensive wing player in history. And the most skilled. His offensive skill level was off the charts. He could get his shot off almost anywhere on the court within 30 feet. A defender could be drapped all over him and he could still get his shot off. He could literally lose a set defender in a phone booth with his skills. The guy was fun to watch. Yes, a ball hog but when he had it going, it was fun.

[ClipperRevival]

Strangely enough, his iso post game is actually really good now, but he often settles with a jumper in isos for some reason. (probably based on the offensive system and how Blatt wants him to play)

His post game was coming along a few years ago. But he should be good in the post as he's almost always guarded by guys he outweighs by 20-50 lbs.

[Dragonyeuw]

You can argue that at his peak, Kobe was the greatest offensive player in history for wing players. What he had over MJ was his ability to get hot from deep. That added an additional explosive element to his game that MJ didn't consistently have. That explains his 81 points. 62 points in 3 quarters and outscore a team by himself. 4 straight games of 50+ points. 13 straights games of 40+ points. These are ridiculous peak moments
.

Kobe and MJ played differently when in the zone. Kobe would heatcheck from deep all game long without conscience, as you said thats what led to those crazy scoring peaks. He also took a far greater degree of 'wtf' shots even if it was the worst possible basketball play imaginable, but on 'those' nights it often didnt matter.

On-fire MJ was pretty much the same as MJ on a regular night in terms of the kinds of shots, he simply made more of them.

[Straight_Ballin]

Lebron is not good at isos because he takes wayyyy to long. Stop being salty about the fact that MJ was so superior in that he wasted no movement or seconds on the clock. Bron can't even play one full 82 game season. MJ might be a has been, but Lebron is a never was.

[ImKobe]

His post game was coming along a few years ago. But he should be good in the post as he's almost always guarded by guys he outweighs by 20-50 lbs.

He slimmed down a bit this season though. He has a nice fadeaway, but his footwork isn't the best and he isn't as fluid as Kobe or MJ. Peak Bron would absolutely destroy almost anyone who's defending him in the post because he would dominate with his physical attributes, but now he's slowing down and isn't as effective in those situations.

But who cares? He's still a very effective player and he's putting up big numbers every night.

[3ball]

http://i61.tinypic.com/2z7mnvm.png

They were shading him like crazy whenever he was in the post


It's not just Lebron - the above picture is standard defense against most wings.. In today's game, the spacing and paint-camping ban means bigs can't stand and wait in the paint anymore - teams are forced to bring them out of the paint to shade on the perimeter against ALL penetrating wings, even Austin Rivers (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=374490).

Today's game forces bigs to leave their wheelhouse (the paint) and contest in the ballhandler's wheelhouse, the perimeter.. That's simply how you defend spacing while keeping the paint clear (abiding by defensive 3 seconds).. :confusedshrug:
.

[ClipperRevival]

Kobe and MJ played differently when in the zone. Kobe would heatcheck from deep all game long without conscience, as you said thats what led to those crazy scoring peaks. He also took a far greater degree of 'wtf' shots even if it was the worst possible basketball play imaginable, but on 'those' nights it often didnt matter.

On-fire MJ was pretty much the same as MJ on a regular night in terms of the kinds of shots, he simply made more of them.

MJ's game was more closer to the basket and he attacked the basket much more. So his scoring was more consistent. That's why he was a lot more 40 point games than Kobe. But yeah, on those nights when everything was clicking for Kobe, it was like "watch out" because once you start hitting those 3's, the point totals go up quickly.

That's why Kobe had 4 60+ point games and I think MJ had 2-3. MJ was the more consistent scorer but at their peak, you can argue Kobe was a bit more dangerous because of his 3 point shooting. They both possessed iso skills that are off the charts.

[Dragonyeuw]

MJ's game was more closer to the basket and he attacked the basket much more. So his scoring was more consistent. That's why he was a lot more 40 point games than Kobe. But yeah, on those nights when everything was clicking for Kobe, it was like "watch out" because once you start hitting those 3's, the point totals go up quickly.

That's why Kobe had 4 60+ point games and I think MJ had 2-3. MJ was the more consistent scorer but at their peak, you can argue Kobe was a bit more dangerous because of his 3 point shooting. They both possessed iso skills that are off the charts.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/834376-comparing-michaels-and-kobes-60-point-games

This is a breakdown of their highest scoring games. Each has 5....it's interesting to note that MJ contributed more in other facets of the game i.e rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. It begs the question of how many more points MJ could have scored in his 69 point game if he wasn't also grabbing 18 boards, 6 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks.

It's also interesting to note the cumulative records of the teams MJ and Kobe faced when they went off for 60+.

[TheMarkMadsen]

wtf are you talking about? he is one of the best at ISOs in the history of the league. Have you guys not watched the games or do you live in some other world?

:roll: :roll:

holy shit you are delusional if you really believe that

[ClipperRevival]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/834376-comparing-michaels-and-kobes-60-point-games

This is a breakdown of their highest scoring games. Each has 5....it's interesting to note that MJ contributed more in other facets of the game i.e rebounds, assists, steals, and blocks. It begs the question of how many more points MJ could have scored in his 69 point game if he wasn't also grabbing 18 boards, 6 assists, 3 steals and 2 blocks.

It's also interesting to note the cumulative records of the teams MJ and Kobe faced when they went off for 60+.

Kobe was 25 of 48 from 3 while MJ was 3 of 14 from 3 in those 5 games. That's a 66 point difference! That just backs up the claim that Kobe's ability to get hot from deep enabled him to stay with or perhaps surpass MJ at his peak as a scorer.

Imagine the heights MJ would've reached had he possessed Kobe's ability to get hot from deep? MJ was clearly the more well rounded scorer, doing it in more ways. But because Kobe possessed that deep threat, when he went off, his point totals racked up more quickly.

[Dragonyeuw]

Kobe was 25 of 48 from 3 while MJ was 3 of 14 from 3 in those 5 games. That's a 66 point difference! That just backs up the claim that Kobe's ability to get hot from deep enabled him to stay with or perhaps surpass MJ at his peak as a scorer.

Imagine the heights MJ would've reached had he possessed Kobe's ability to get hot from deep? MJ was clearly the more well rounded scorer, doing it in more ways. But because Kobe possessed that deep threat, when he went off, his point totals racked up more quickly.

Indeed, the stats basically highlighted that the 3 was a much bigger part of Kobe's offense. The 3 wasn't as utilized during MJs peak, but nowadays asides from someone like Wade most of the great perimeter scorers use the shot as a major part of their repertoire. I recall at one point, if you hit 150 3's in a year you were considered prolific. Now you got a guys like Curry going off for like 270 plus...