Why is 2/5 an insult?

[ISHGoat]

Its like saying if you got 2 golds and 3 silvers is a bad thing.

[jayfan]

Nothing wrong with being 2/5, unless your stans are constantly trying to promote you as GOAT.



.

[ISHGoat]

Nothing wrong with 2/5, unless your stans are constantly trying to promote you as GOAT.



.

Only retards think he is better than jordan, but he will have a case for top 3 - 5 depending on his play this year.

[G0ATbe]

Except you dont get silver medals for getting curbstomped in the finals over and over again.

2/5 is a losing record, meaning he gets owned and outperformed on the biggest stage more often than not. Not that hard to comprehend:confusedshrug:

[ISHGoat]

Except you dont get silver medals for getting curbstomped in the finals over and over again.

2/5 is a losing record, meaning he gets owned and outperformed on the biggest stage more often than not. Not that hard to comprehend:confusedshrug:

yes but he also got to the biggest stage slightly half of his years in the league. I mean this isnt the russell era 8 team league of short white guys.

[Mr. Jabbar]

its not an insult, its a joke

[IllegalD]

:roll: ISH never ceases to amaze me.

I would love know when "just making it to the finals" all of a sudden became a huge achievement.

Funny, I didn't hear such nonsense when Kobe made 7 finals. All I heard about was about the 2 he lost and how "he can never be GOAT because of it".

If LeBron is supposed to be that much better than Kobe, why wouldn't the same logic apply to him...? :confusedshrug:

[DFish24]

Cause his stans contanstly tout him as a GOAT candidate, yet he can't even achieve a winning finals record all while stacking the deck.

[G0ATbe]

yes but he also got to the biggest stage slightly half of his years in the league. I mean this isnt the russell era 8 team league of short white guys.
Getting to the finals out East is just as impressive as making the playoffs out West tbh.

[plowking]

Except you dont get silver medals for getting curbstomped in the finals over and over again.

2/5 is a losing record, meaning he gets owned and outperformed on the biggest stage more often than not. Not that hard to comprehend:confusedshrug:

Does it count as getting owned if you are not the favourite going into the finals?

[jimmybball]

Nothing wrong with being 2/5, unless your stans are constantly trying to promote you as GOAT.



.

This. 2/5 is great for most players, but not so much when you are pushing him as a top 5 player of all time.

[ISHGoat]

Does it count as getting owned if you are not the favourite going into the finals?

it should count when you are a big reason your team lost, so kobe in 04 and lebron in 11. But the other times, like in 08 for kobe, and 07,14 for lebron, you cant really hold it against them.

Paul pierce went to 2 finals and won 1 of them, you think he rather only win 1 finals and lost in the second round in the other?

[edrick]

It's not an insult. Some of the brilliant minds of ISH consider losing in the second round to be better than making it to the Finals. That's the kind of intelligence we're working with here at ISH, folks.

[Kblaze8855]

I would love know when "just making it to the finals" all of a sudden became a huge achievement.

If you think making the finals has not been generally considered a great achievement you started watching ball in the internet age. Deep into it.

Like...2010.

[Sportal]

Cause his stans contanstly tout him as a GOAT candidate, yet he can't even achieve a winning finals record all while stacking the deck.

Do people forget how Pau Gasol come to the Lakers...

What about the Dwight, Kobe and Nash Lakers attempt?

Chris Paul?

Malone and Payton Lakers attempt?

The Lakers franchise try to stack the deck every year almost.

[Hey Yo]

:roll: ISH never ceases to amaze me.

I would love know when "just making it to the finals" all of a sudden became a huge achievement.

Funny, I didn't hear such nonsense when Kobe made 7 finals. All I heard about was about the 2 he lost and how "he can never be GOAT because of it".

If LeBron is supposed to be that much better than Kobe, why wouldn't the same logic apply to him...? :confusedshrug:
You can't be considered GOAT if more of your rings were won as a sidekick than as 1st option.

Plus the Lakers getting crushed by Detroit as Kobe was ignoring Shaq while trying to win a FMVP of his own, was very embarrassing. Second year Tayshaun Prince had Kobe on lock down but he kept chucking and ignoring.

Basically Kobe is 2/4 as first option. Just like LeBron is.

[dreamwarrior]

Because of how he quit on his team twice after losing. The heat with bron wade bosh whiteside and dragic would have been the favorites to win this year.

[Rose'sACL]

Because of how he quit on his team twice after losing. The heat with bron wade bosh whiteside and dragic would have been the favorites to win this year.
do you have some sort of mental illness?

[kennethgriffin]

why does this guy ask the same question every day

for the 1000th time


its bad because 9 out of the top 10 players ever have winning finals records.. only way wilt got in without it was because he holds nearly all major records. and even then hes still known as a choker

asside from that

he rigged/colluded/ring chased and predicted 8 titles... and still went 2 for 5


losing in the finals is bad because you should have a winning record in each level you reach


win more 1st round series than you lose
win more 2nd round series than you lose
win more 3rd round series than you lose
win more finals series than you lose

the best of the best are know for this trait


you can say "its worse to lose in the first round" ... yes. it is. but its still bad to lose more finals than you won

you should always win more often than you lose


if your team is good enough to be in the finals but youre losing every time you get there. then somethings missing inside of you.

clutch
heart
passion
integrity
work ethic
belief
ambition
toughness
alpha
will
desire
practice
team work
killer instinct
skills


somethings missing.... especially if you hand picked your team mates

and if d*ck head lebron fans wanna discount lebrons 2007 finals cause the east is such c*ck sucking sh*t that he fluked a finals appearance... then we have to discount ALL of lebrons finals appearances coming from the east PERIOD

if its such a joke to be there in the first place. anyone can luck out a hot week if they have a free trip to the finals every year.

[Optimus Prime]

It's actually 2*/5.

First one because of lockout/refs. Second one is all because of Ray Allen.

:kobe:

[knicksman]

it becomes an insult when you choose your teammates. Bosh +Wade>>shaq yet only managed 2/5. Weak for high standards alpha like me.

[ISHGoat]

why does this guy ask the same question every day

for the 1000th time


its bad because 9 out of the top 10 players ever have winning finals records.. only way wilt got in without it was because he holds nearly all major records. and even then hes still known as a choker

asside from that

he rigged/colluded/ring chased and predicted 8 titles... and still went 2 for 5


losing in the finals is bad because you should have a winning record in each level you reach


win more 1st round series than you lose
win more 2nd round series than you lose
win more 3rd round series than you lose
win more finals series than you lose

the best of the best are know for this trait


you can say "its worse to lose in the first round" ... yes. it is. but its still bad to lose more finals than you won

you should always win more often than you lose


if your team is good enough to be in the finals but youre losing every time you get there. then somethings missing inside of you.

clutch
heart
passion
integrity
work ethic
belief
ambition
toughness
alpha
will
desire
practice
team work
killer instinct
skills


somethings missing.... especially if you hand picked your team mates

and if d*ck head lebron fans wanna discount lebrons 2007 finals cause the east is such c*ck sucking sh*t that he fluked a finals appearance... then we have to discount ALL of lebrons finals appearances coming from the east PERIOD

if its such a joke to be there in the first place. anyone can luck out a hot week if they have a free trip to the finals every year.

bro you sound upset

[kennethgriffin]

bro you sound upset


thats your rebuttal?

well thats the end of this thread i guess

:lol

[IllegalD]

If you think making the finals has not been generally considered a great achievement you started watching ball in the internet age. Deep into it.

Like...2010.

I've actually been watching basketball sine the mid 90s.

Do you have a problem with me pointing out the obvious hypocritical double-standards on this forum?

LeBron and Magic make finals it's, "WOWYYY. Look at how many finals they made!!! GOATs."

When Kobe makes Finals its. "B-b-b-b-but he LOST 2."

[Hey Yo]

I've actually been watching basketball sine the mid 90s.

Do you have a problem with me pointing out the obvious hypocritical double-standards on this forum?

LeBron and Magic make finals it's, "WOWYYY. Look at how many finals they made!!! GOATs."

When Kobe makes Finals its. "B-b-b-b-but he LOST 2."
No...it's more about Kobe being the obvious 2nd banana getting to his first 4 Finals appearances. Plus you have to add that LeBron and Magic were huge pieces to their teams puzzle from their rookie year on, while Kobe was doing his best Adam Morrison comparison his rookie year.

The next 3 appearances, Kobe won 2 and lost 1 to the pathetic East.......right?

[kennethgriffin]

No...it's more about Kobe being the obvious 2nd banana getting to his first 4 Finals appearances. Plus you have to add that LeBron and Magic were huge pieces to their teams puzzle from their rookie year on, while Kobe was doing his best Adam Morrison comparison his rookie year.

The next 3 appearances, Kobe won 2 and lost 1 to the pathetic East.......right?


michael jordan would be a 2nd banana to prime shaq

and it was a 2 man team. they needed almost 30ppg from both players just to win after glen rice left

[ISHGoat]

thats your rebuttal?

well thats the end of this thread i guess

:lol

just no time to read all that nonsense by you

[Joyner82reload]

5 Finals apperances isn't near as impressive as it sounds. If LeBron's teams played in the West, moving over their RS record to seed them accordingly...

2004: miss playoffs
2005: miss playoffs
2006: lose in 1st round to 60-22 Dallas
2007: lose in 1st round, not finals, to 58-24 San Antonio
2008: miss playoffs
2009: lose in WCF to 65-17 Los Angeles Lakers
2010: lose in 2nd round to whoever seeing as LeBron quit
2011: lose in 2nd round,not Finals, to 57-24 Dallas
2012: lose in WCF to 60-22 San Antonio, Bosh was injured for the entire ECF
2013: win title
2014: lose in 2nd round to 58-24 San Antonio
2015: lose in 1st round to 56-26 LA Clippers

So you would be looking at 3 missed playoffs, 3 1st round losses, 3 second round losses, 2 WCF losses, and 1 title which was his only Finals appearance. So it would really be 1/1.

Also 2013 is no given. Instead of going through 38-44 Milwaukee, 45-37 Roseless Bulls, and 49-32 Indiana he would have had to go through 45-37 Rockets, 56-26 Memphis, and 58-24 San Antonio to even reach the Finals.

[Rose'sACL]

5 Finals apperances isn't near as impressive as it sounds. If LeBron's teams played in the West, moving over their RS record to seed them accordingly...

2004: miss playoffs
2005: miss playoffs
2006: lose in 1st round to 60-22 Dallas
2007: lose in 1st round, not finals, to 58-24 San Antonio
2008: miss playoffs
2009: lose in WCF to 65-17 Los Angeles Lakers
2010: lose in 2nd round to whoever seeing as LeBron quit
2011: lose in 2nd round,not Finals, to 57-24 Dallas
2012: lose in WCF to 60-22 San Antonio, Bosh was injured for the entire ECF
2013: win title
2014: lose in 2nd round to 58-24 San Antonio
2015: lose in 1st round to 56-26 LA Clippers

So you would be looking at 3 missed playoffs, 3 1st round losses, 3 second round losses, 2 WCF losses, and 1 title which was his only Finals appearance. So it would really be 1/1.

Also 2013 is no given. Instead of going through 38-44 Milwaukee, 45-37 Roseless Bulls, and 49-32 Indiana he would have had to go through 45-37 Rockets, 56-26 Memphis, and 58-24 San Antonio to even reach the Finals.
wouldn't he be playing on loaded teams if he played in the west? West teams have already so much talent. 11 out of 15 teams in the west are considered good every year. Chances of lebron being on a good team would be pretty great. at least better than pre-2010 cavs.
also, heat played the most games in the playoffs in both 2012 and 2013 when they won the title. it is all about matchups. Hawks gave 08 celtics more trouble than the best team from the west.

[ralph_i_el]

Except you dont get silver medals for getting curbstomped in the finals over and over again.

2/5 is a losing record, meaning he gets owned and outperformed on the biggest stage more often than not. Not that hard to comprehend:confusedshrug:

whereas everyone else that season got owned and outperformed BEFORE the biggest stage...

[dubeta]

wouldn't he be playing on loaded teams if he played in the west? West teams have already so much talent. 11 out of 15 teams in the west are considered good every year. Chances of lebron being on a good team would be pretty great. at least better than pre-2010 cavs.
also, heat played the most games in the playoffs in both 2012 and 2013 when they won the title. it is all about matchups. Hawks gave 08 celtics more trouble than the best team from the west.

This. Lebron on OKC instead of Duref would've 3 peated already. And LeBron is actually marketable and brings in money so the hillbilly owners wouldn't have a problem keeping Harden

[gts]

2/5 isn't a insult..



it's a fact

[Joyner82reload]

wouldn't he be playing on loaded teams if he played in the west? West teams have already so much talent. 11 out of 15 teams in the west are considered good every year. Chances of lebron being on a good team would be pretty great. at least better than pre-2010 cavs.
also, heat played the most games in the playoffs in both 2012 and 2013 when they won the title. it is all about matchups. Hawks gave 08 celtics more trouble than the best team from the west.

I'm talking about putting 2004-2010 & 2015 Cleveland and 2011-14 Miami in the West as constructed

[Eric Cartman]

2/5 isn't an insult, 2011 is.

[Rose'sACL]

I'm talking about putting 2004-2010 & 2015 Cleveland and 2011-14 Miami in the West as constructed
How does that make sense?

[Joyner82reload]

How does that make sense?

Easily. If his teams played in the Western conference, i.e. the teams he was a member of during his career. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than just transplanting him on a random team in that conference. Using that logic, putting Shaq on the Spurs leads to San Antonio winning every title from 1998-2009

[sekachu]

Its like saying if you got 2 golds and 3 silvers is a bad thing.



Is a bad thing when he is compared to MJ

[funnystuff]

You can't be considered GOAT if more of your rings were won as a sidekick than as 1st option.

Plus the Lakers getting crushed by Detroit as Kobe was ignoring Shaq while trying to win a FMVP of his own, was very embarrassing. Second year Tayshaun Prince had Kobe on lock down but he kept chucking and ignoring.

Basically Kobe is 2/4 as first option. Just like LeBron is.
Kind of knock on Lebron to be honest, dude is much better by a wide margin

[dubeta]

Kind of knock on Lebron to be honest, dude is much better by a wide margin

True. Kobe was a first option in 2004, 2008, 2009. I'd say he was a slight 1b to PER Leader Pau Gasol in 2010





So realistically.

As a First Option

LeBron : 2/4 50%


Kobe: 1/3 33%



/thread

[Prometheus]

Is a bad thing when he is compared to MJ

But he shouldn't be compared to MJ in the first place. If you compare LeBron to guys like Kobe, Magic, Duncan, Bird, etc... suddenly he doesn't seem so bad.

Comparing anyone to the mighty Michael Jordan is a mistake. No one will come out of that looking very good.

[funnystuff]

2/5 isn't an insult, 2011 is.
Lebron just doesn't fit well with the title of "sidekick" like some other players do..

Lets be honest, he was never comfortable out there because he was never comfortably the first option, Wade wanted it to still be his team.


Look at game 1 and 2 of this current Bulls series, same sh*t brah. Except Wade did what Kyrie did in game 1 for 5 straight games in the 2011 finals.

[dubeta]

But he shouldn't be compared to MJ in the first place. If you compare LeBron to guys like Kobe, Magic, Duncan, Bird, etc... suddenly he doesn't seem so bad.

Comparing anyone to the mighty Michael Jordan is a mistake. No one will come out of that looking very good.


:roll: :roll:

Lay off dat kool-aid

[Prometheus]

:roll: :roll:

Lay off dat kool-aid

I'm a LeBron-supporter you mindless tool. Jordan was better. Deal with it.

[dubeta]

I'm a LeBron-supporter you mindless tool. Jordan was better. Deal with it.

PM me, lets debate this.

[kennethgriffin]

True. Kobe was a first option in 2004, 2008, 2009. I'd say he was a slight 1b to PER Leader Pau Gasol in 2010





So realistically.

As a First Option

LeBron : 2/4 50%


Kobe: 1/3 33%



/thread


i'm pretty sure kobe was the lakers leader in FGA's for 2001,2002,2004,2008,2009,2010

and won 4 out of those 6 finals

and if you only count first option as finals ppg leader

kobe was the lakers leader in 2008,2009,2010

and won 2 out of those 3 finals

:lol

[kennethgriffin]

lebrons beatin 5 teams with 50+ wins to make 5 nba finals


kobes beatin 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 nba finals



so no .... just making the finals for lebron is NOT an accomplishment

[dubeta]

i'm pretty sure kobe was the lakers leader in FGA's for 2001,2002,2004,2008,2009,2010

and won 4 out of those 6 finals

and if you only count first option as finals ppg leader

kobe was the lakers leader in 2008,2009,2010

and won 2 out of those 3 finals

:lol

LOL I like to use PER to figure out who actually was a first option.


Kobe missing more shots than anyone else doesnt mean anything, Kobes great at missing shots, congrats.


Kobe 1/3



LeBron 2/4


Just deal with it.

[funnystuff]

i'm pretty sure kobe was the lakers leader in FGA's for 2001,2002,2004,2008,2009,2010

and won 4 out of those 6 finals

and if you only count first option as finals ppg leader

kobe was the lakers leader in 2008,2009,2010

and won 2 out of those 3 finals

:lol
You know why that is? Because Shaq used to draw 2-3 defenders on him every time he touched the ball, I don't expect you watched Shaqs Lakers before though.

[jzek]

Because ppl compare him to Jordan and some even dare say that he's better than Jordan lol. So when ppl say that, they bring up LeBron's 2/5 to end any discussion.

[dubeta]

I'll admit it, I'm not the biggest Kobe fan, but I admit he's the greatest shot-misser I've ever seen, noone comes close. He can miss shots at a rate I don't think I've ever seen. But I don't think its fair to call him the 1st option of a Finals just because he missed more shots than anyone else :confusedshrug:

[jzek]

lebrons beatin 5 teams with 50+ wins to make 5 nba finals


kobes beatin 24 teams with 50+ wins to make 7 nba finals



so no .... just making the finals for lebron is NOT an accomplishment




What about Jordan? How many 50+ win teams did he beat in all those title years?

[kennethgriffin]

LOL I like to use PER to figure out who actually was a first option.


Kobe missing more shots than anyone else doesnt mean anything, Kobes great at missing shots, congrats.


Kobe 1/3



LeBron 2/4


Just deal with it.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/15767532.jpg








first option
Definition

noun
allowing someone to be the first to have the possibility of deciding something

[kennethgriffin]

What about Jordan? How many 50+ win teams did he beat in all those title years?


20 or 21 i believe.


the east was actually decent before lebron got there

[knicksman]

I'll admit it, I'm not the biggest Kobe fan, but I admit he's the greatest shot-misser I've ever seen, noone comes close. He can miss shots at a rate I don't think I've ever seen. But I don't think its fair to call him the 1st option of a Finals just because he missed more shots than anyone else :confusedshrug:

missed shots>>>missed rings. only cheap betas would care about them. :lol

[Showtime2001]

PM me, lets debate this.
There is nothing to debate

Jordan & Kobe >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> LeBron

deal with it.

:lol

[plowking]

Easily. If his teams played in the Western conference, i.e. the teams he was a member of during his career. It makes a hell of a lot more sense than just transplanting him on a random team in that conference. Using that logic, putting Shaq on the Spurs leads to San Antonio winning every title from 1998-2009

Your argument is worse though.

You're essentially saying the teams Lebron were on weren't good enough to get through in the West, due to the West having more talented teams, and that the less talented team Lebron was on being transported over to the West would lose... You're going around in circles saying the same thing.

Bron on the Thunder more than likely wins a few titles from 09-15.

[tomtucker]

should have been 0/5..........thank the lord for Wade and Bosh

[Straight_Ballin]

Guy has a team good enough to get to the finals 5 times and can only muster up 2 victories? Top 5? That's laughable at best.

Come talk to me when you have a team good enough to get to the finals 6 times and can demonstrate perfection all 6 times.

Weak minded generation trying to prop up mediocre players while they get destroyed by superior logic of those who watched Jordan in his prime. This is ISH in a nutshell.

[Droid101]

Answer: Eastern Conference.

[SpaceJammeR]

i have no idea. winning a championship takes a team effort. only one time he played horrible where they could've/should've won. in his first finals against the spurs he had no chance so that shouldn't count. the rest he played pretty damn good. we should use finals mvp to rate some one individually. basically he's 2/4 and kobe is 2/7 and jordan is 6/6. kobe fans keep bringing up 2/5 to help them sleep at night

[poido123]

2 out of 5?


Can't even win half the time :oldlol:

[Chizdog]

Because making it to the Finals in the EAST isn't an achievement. If he's 2/5 in the West then that's better.

[Mr Exlax]

Last time I checked, basketball was a team game. You can be the greatest player in the world, but if the opposing team is better overall, you're gonna lose. It's a joke, but so is this site. There aren't many basketball enthusiasts on here.

[34-24 Footwork]

Lol. Damn. If Kobe REALLY beat 24 50+ win teams in the playoffs en route to 5 rings, and LeBron only beat 5, then there is a SERIOUS problem With the conferences.

On a serious note, I've never seen a player celebrated for losing this much.

Curb stomped in the 2004 Olympics with wade bosh, Duncan and etc.

Curb stomped in 2007 finals.

Biggest as whooping in NBA finals history in 2014 and he doesn't receive any negative attention for it in the media. Lol.

[34-24 Footwork]

Last time I checked, basketball was a team game. You can be the greatest player in the world, but if the opposing team is better overall, you're gonna lose. It's a joke, but so is this site. There aren't many basketball enthusiasts on here.

People like you who give Bran a pass for losing in the worst eastern conference of all time aren't basketball enthusiasts. You're a Stan.

Get your excuses ready for this year again :lol

[ILLsmak]

Simply because bron is ( it seems ) about efficiency and/or manufactured efficiency. 2/5 is inefficient. So people say bronstats... 55% fg 30 ppg, 8 reb 8 ast... and someone comes in like 2/5 bitch.

It's a troll but it works because of that. It's the opposite of five rangz reply to Kobe stats.

-Smak

[Mr Exlax]

People like you who give Bran a pass for losing in the worst eastern conference of all time aren't basketball enthusiasts. You're a Stan.

Get your excuses ready for this year again :lol

Never give all the credit to one player. Never give all the blame to one player. Obviously you've never actually hooped before. You stay behind that keyboard though tiger.

[sportjames23]

Business just picked up. :oldlol:

[34-24 Footwork]

Never give all the credit to one player. Never give all the blame to one player. Obviously you've never actually hooped before. You stay behind that keyboard though tiger.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Stay mad, little boy.

[Mass Debator]

Wait, who gets bronze?

[red1]

2/5 is a badge of honor

[TheMan]

michael jordan would be a 2nd banana to prime shaq

and it was a 2 man team. they needed almost 30ppg from both players just to win after glen rice left
Let's not get carried away now. Prime MJ 87-93 was as good as any Shaq prime year, if not actually better (check dem stats), he's not a second banana to any player in history. I get the whole dominating big man > dominating wing but MJ was an exception in that regard. It's not like Shaq won with a buch of stiffs either, disregard what the Kobe haters say, Kobe was crucial in that threepeat, he was actually better than Shaq in some of those WC series leading up to the Finals. A prime Shaq and prime Kobe Laker team would be at the very least a case of 1A 1B partnership. A prime Shaq and a prime Jordan would be equal but MJ would always be first option in the closing minutes of a tight game as the opposing team can't employ a hack-a-Jordan tactic.

[Cleverness]

kobe, jordan, and stans

[Straight_Ballin]

People like you who give Bran a pass for losing in the worst eastern conference of all time aren't basketball enthusiasts. You're a Stan.

Get your excuses ready for this year again :lol

He already has them lined up.

"But....but...but... Kevin Love got injured and......"

Blah Blah Blah... no one cares.