Can a team win a title without a Top 5 player?

[305Baller]

What do you guys think? When building your team for a title should you do anything in your power to secure a Top 5 caliber talent?

Look at the remaining teams now, the favorites all have a Top 5 caliber talent:

Clippers: Blake
Warriors: Curry
Cavs: Bald
Rockets: Harden

Theres no doubt that the individual talent catapults a team to the top. What does this say about Duncan? Were the intangibles in his game keeping him as a Top 5 caliber player?

:pimp:

[dubeta]

Heat in 2006

[Prime_Shaq]

2004 Pistons
2008 Celtics
2014 Spurs

[sd3035]

Heat in 2006

Wade was the best Heat player that has ever existed in that year, easily top 5

[TylerOO]

2010 Lakers
2009 Lakers

[TaLvsCuaL]

Memphis 2015 :lol

[305Baller]

Heat in 2006

Nah. Wade was on his way to Top 5 and you had Shaq who was considered the top Center in the game.

[Legends66NBA7]

2004 Pistons
2008 Celtics
2014 Spurs

KG was top 5 in 08.

[305Baller]

2004 Pistons
2008 Celtics
2014 Spurs

Noted.


Thoughts:
Ben Wallace could have been considered top 5 in 04.
Celtics had 3 borderline top 10 talents that perfectly complimented each other, but you are right...notop 5 player.
Spurs are an interesting scenario... check my Duncan comment in the OP

[305Baller]

KG was top 5 in 08.

You sure? Im not sure about this.

[305Baller]

Memphis 2015 :lol

I like Memphis' toughness and inside play but alas... no Top 5 talent... :confusedshrug:

[jimmybball]

You really don't have to go far back in history to find this out, so yes.

[305Baller]

You really don't have to go far back in history to find this out, so yes.

It's rare though.

[Joyner82reload]

Harden and Griffin aren't top 5 players.

Durant(healthy)
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook

Those are the top 5 players in the league, currently.

[305Baller]

2010 Lakers
2009 Lakers

:oldlol:

[jimmybball]

2010 Lakers
2009 Lakers

They had Gasol.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

What about the Bad Boys Pistons? Were any of those players top-5 calibre?

[TaLvsCuaL]

I like Memphis' toughness and inside play but alas... no Top 5 talent... :confusedshrug:
Swap Jeff Green for someone like Gordon Hayward or Kawhi Leonard and this Memphis team can win the title without a top 5 player.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Swap Jeff Green for someone like Gordon Hayward or Kawhi Leonard and this Memphis team can win the title without a top 5 player.

Kawhi on Memphis would be :bowdown:

[Legends66NBA7]

You sure? Im not sure about this.

Yup.

All-NBA First team, All-Defensive First team, Defensive Player of the Year, Best player on the best team in the league, put up 20/10 in the playoffs, etc...

Only players you could argue over him are Kobe, CP3, Duncan, and LeBron.

[FKAri]

They had Gasol.

underrated post

[305Baller]

Harden and Griffin aren't top 5 players.

Durant(healthy)
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook

Those are the top 5 players in the league, currently.

Hmm. I don't know what to think of this... I think you are mostly right but Harden was the #2 MVP vote getter... and Griffin is a top 3 PF... and arguably the best PF.

Both players have an argument for being in the top 5 ... Harden more than Blake obviously...

...but maybe you are right and I should change the whole concept to Top 10.

...or maybe there are just exceptions to the rule.

hmm..

[305Baller]

What about the Bad Boys Pistons? Were any of those players top-5 calibre?

Isiah Thomas was Top 5.

ps.Im watching the doc now.

[Joyner82reload]

Hmm. I don't know what to think of this... I think you are mostly right but Harden was the #2 MVP vote getter... and Griffin is a top 3 PF... and arguably the best PF.

Both players have an argument for being in the top 5 ... Harden more than Blake obviously...

...but maybe you are right and I should change the whole concept to Top 10.

...or maybe there are just exceptions to the rule.

hmm..

Griffin isn't top 10, either. He might be the playoff MVP thus far, but that doesn't mean he's a top 10 player in the league. If he flames out over the next 5 games averaging something like 16/8 48 FG% in a 7 game series loss to Houston, Griffin will be forgotten and go back to the 15-20 range where he was in the RS. This is going by what we've seen to Griffin to date, this doesn't mean he can't win FMVP and have an MVP type season next year launching him immediately into the top 3-5 range

[Horde of Temujin]

What about the Bad Boys Pistons? Were any of those players top-5 calibre?


You could make an argument for Isiah.

[305Baller]

Griffin isn't top 10, either. He might be the playoff MVP thus far, but that doesn't mean he's a top 10 player in the league. If he flames out over the next 5 games averaging something like 16/8 48 FG% in a 7 game series loss to Houston, Griffin will be forgotten and go back to the 15-20 range where he was in the RS.

I'm not in agreement but what about Chris Paul?

[sd3035]

I'm not in agreement but what about Chris Paul?

Paul is definitely not top 5

[305Baller]

Paul is definitely not top 5

But Top 10?

[iamgine]

The answer is obviously yes but it's just harder.

Build your roster with the top 6-15...championship.

[Joyner82reload]

I'm not in agreement but what about Chris Paul?

I would rank them

Durant
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook
Howard
Paul
Harden
Gasol
Cousins

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Isiah Thomas was Top 5.

ps.Im watching the doc now.

Jordan, Bird, Magic, Dominique, Barkley, Malone, Drexler, Ewing, Hakeem...not saying Isiah wasn't a top-5 player but with competition like that it looks like it probably wouldn't be a clear cut selection. Stacked year (1989).

Great documentary. :applause:

[CavaliersFTW]

'00's era Detroit Pistons already a forgotten team and they won 2 freaking titles :oldlol:

*EDIT* One title, 2 Finals appearances.

[sd3035]

But Top 10?

could be top 10, so could Griffin

Two top 10s and some other solid players is enough to win it all, not this year though, the Warriors are a lock

[305Baller]

could be top 10, so could Griffin

Two top 10s and some other solid players is enough to win it all, not this year though, the Warriors are a lock

Yeah, with their top 5 player :D

[Young X]

I would rank them

Durant
Davis
LeBron
Curry
Westbrook
Howard
Paul
Harden
Gasol
CousinsHow is Dwight better than CP3?

[305Baller]

'00's era Detroit Pistons already a forgotten team and they won 2 freaking titles :oldlol:

Prime Ben Wallace was arguably Top 5 material.

[CavaliersFTW]

Prime Ben Wallace was arguably Top 5 material.
You can't name 5 players better than him in 2004?

[305Baller]

You can't name 5 players better than him in 2004?

Can you? :D

[Joyner82reload]

How is Dwight better than CP3?

This year, he wasn't. However, he was injured this regular season and didn't play to his normal level. He has been flatout dominant in the playoffs thus far averaging 18/14 on 59 TS% with 3.5 blocks per game

[Young X]

This year, he wasn't. However, he was injured this regular season and didn't play to his normal level. He has been flatout dominant in the playoffs thus far averaging 18/14 on 59 TS% with 3.5 blocks per gamePaul averaged 23/8/5/2 on 63 TS% against the defending champs and averaged 19/10 on 60 TS% while leading the #1 offense in the league in the regular season.

[CavaliersFTW]

Can you? :D
Kevin Garnett
Shaq O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Baron Davis
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd

Possibly even Ming, Cassell, Peja?

[305Baller]

Kevin Garnett
Shaq O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Tracy McGrady
Baron Davis
Tim Duncan
Paul Pierce
Jason Kidd

Possibly even Ming, Cassell, Peja?

All great players but in Wallace's defense: #1 defensive player and only the 4 players in bold were obviously more effective from a team standpoint.

[jimmybball]

How is Dwight better than CP3?

I wondered the same thing.

[JimmyMcAdocious]

Last year?

[305Baller]

Last year?

Duncan has been top 5 in his career... maybe in spurts he still has it... the Top 5ness...

[kennethgriffin]

ummm

2004 pistons ( kobe/shaq/garnett/tmac/duncan )
2007 spurs ( kobe/nash/dirk/lebron/wade ) - duncan past his prime
2008 celtics ( kobe/paul/lebron/dwight/dirk ) - garnett past his prime
2011 mavs ( kobe/lebron/wade/dwight/durant ) - dirk past his prime
2014 spurs ( paul/harden/durant/lebron/blake or curry )


ofcourse its possible

[305Baller]

ummm

2004 pistons ( kobe/shaq/garnett/tmac/duncan )
2007 spurs ( kobe/nash/dirk/lebron/wade ) - duncan past his prime
2008 celtics ( kobe/paul/lebron/dwight/dirk ) - garnett past his prime
2011 mavs ( kobe/lebron/wade/dwight/durant ) - dirk past his prime
2014 spurs ( paul/harden/durant/lebron/blake or curry )


ofcourse its possible

So since 2000 it's 5 teams. And all of these teams had a former top 5 player on a decline... which means they had Top 5-ness in them at some point.

Oh, except the Pistons... in which Wallace is arguable. 1 team.


Conclusion: You need a dude with TOP 5-NESS.

[kennethgriffin]

So since 2000 it's 5 teams. And all of these teams had a former top 5 player on a decline... which means they had Top 5-ness in them at some point.

Oh, except the Pistons... in which Wallace is arguable. 1 team.


Conclusion: You need a dude with TOP 5-NESS.

lets just say you need a top 10 player...

[305Baller]

lets just say you need a top 10 player...

yeah. Top 10 but with Top 5 potential.

[305Baller]

Like, you cant have 1 top 10 that could never sniff top 5. You need a guy in the top 10 that could have been top 5 at some point.... wtf

[305Baller]

Okay I edited the OP with "Top-5 caliber"

[ClipperRevival]

You can but history has shown it's rare. These are the teams since 1980.

Pistons 1989 and 1990 - No, Isiah was not a top 5 player. Check who played in that era.
Pistons 2004
Celtics 2008 - Was KG still top 5 by 2008?
Spurs 2014 - Duncan was not a top 5 player last year.

[ClipperRevival]

ummm

2004 pistons ( kobe/shaq/garnett/tmac/duncan )
2007 spurs ( kobe/nash/dirk/lebron/wade ) - duncan past his prime
2008 celtics ( kobe/paul/lebron/dwight/dirk ) - garnett past his prime
2011 mavs ( kobe/lebron/wade/dwight/durant ) - dirk past his prime
2014 spurs ( paul/harden/durant/lebron/blake or curry )


ofcourse its possible

Duncan elevated his play in the playoffs in 2007 and played like a top 5 player. Same with Dirk in 2011. He was the best player in the playoffs that year.

[houston]

of course all you need 2 all-star talent players

[Dragonyeuw]

You can but history has shown it's rare. These are the teams since 1980.

Pistons 1989 and 1990 - No, Isiah was not a top 5 player. Check who played in that era.
Pistons 2004
Celtics 2008 - Was KG still top 5 by 2008?
Spurs 2014 - Duncan was not a top 5 player last year.

KG may have been borderline top 5, maybe not, but you had 3 players in the top 25 that year with Pierce and Allen plus great role players.

[rmt]

ummm

2004 pistons ( kobe/shaq/garnett/tmac/duncan )
2007 spurs ( kobe/nash/dirk/lebron/wade ) - duncan past his prime
2008 celtics ( kobe/paul/lebron/dwight/dirk ) - garnett past his prime
2011 mavs ( kobe/lebron/wade/dwight/durant ) - dirk past his prime
2014 spurs ( paul/harden/durant/lebron/blake or curry )


ofcourse its possible

2006-07 NBA MVP Voting

1 Dirk Nowitzki 28 DAL 83.0 1138.0 1290 0.882 78 36.2 24.6 8.9 3.4 0.7 0.8 .502 .416 .904 16.3 .278
2 Steve Nash 32 PHO 44.0 1013.0 1290 0.785 76 35.3 18.6 3.5 11.6 0.8 0.1 .532 .455 .899 12.6 .225
3 Kobe Bryant 28 LAL 2.0 521.0 1290 0.404 77 40.8 31.6 5.7 5.4 1.4 0.5 .463 .344 .868 13.0 .199
4 Tim Duncan 30 SAS 0.0 286.0 1290 0.222 80 34.1 20.0 10.6 3.4 0.8 2.4 .546 .111 .637 13.0 .230
5 LeBron James 22 CLE 0.0 183.0 1290 0.142 78 40.9 27.3 6.7 6.0 1.6 0.7 .476 .319 .698 13.7 .206

Of the top five:

highest in FG%, games played, rebounds, blocks
second highest in WS/48 (after MVP Dirk), age
least in minutes played

All-Star, All-NBA 1st team, All-Defensive 1st team, 3rd in DPOY voting

Pretty good for someone "past his prime"

[rzp]

2004 pistons and 2014 spurs are the most obvious choices.

LoL at people saying Ben Wallace was a top-5 player.

[rzp]

2006-07 NBA MVP Voting

1 Dirk Nowitzki 28 DAL 83.0 1138.0 1290 0.882 78 36.2 24.6 8.9 3.4 0.7 0.8 .502 .416 .904 16.3 .278
2 Steve Nash 32 PHO 44.0 1013.0 1290 0.785 76 35.3 18.6 3.5 11.6 0.8 0.1 .532 .455 .899 12.6 .225
3 Kobe Bryant 28 LAL 2.0 521.0 1290 0.404 77 40.8 31.6 5.7 5.4 1.4 0.5 .463 .344 .868 13.0 .199
4 Tim Duncan 30 SAS 0.0 286.0 1290 0.222 80 34.1 20.0 10.6 3.4 0.8 2.4 .546 .111 .637 13.0 .230
5 LeBron James 22 CLE 0.0 183.0 1290 0.142 78 40.9 27.3 6.7 6.0 1.6 0.7 .476 .319 .698 13.7 .206

Of the top five:

highest in FG%, games played, rebounds, blocks
second highest in WS/48 (after MVP Dirk), age
least in minutes played

All-Star, All-NBA 1st team, All-Defensive 1st team, 3rd in DPOY voting

Pretty good for someone "past his prime"

Yup, past his prime, considering his prime standarts.

[nathanjizzle]

this discussion is so stupid.

[ArbitraryWater]

Late 1980's Pistons, 2004 Pistons, 2014 Spurs

/thread


-And yes, this discussion is stupid... also KG was top 5 in 2008, and Wade was easily top 5 lol what.


So since 2000 it's 5 teams. And all of these teams had a former top 5 player on a decline... which means they had Top 5-ness in them at some point.

Oh, except the Pistons... in which Wallace is arguable. 1 team.


Conclusion: You need a dude with TOP 5-NESS.

you just buy that bullshit he just wrote for 2006, 2007, 2011 :biggums:

Lmao 305 so naive


Duncan has been top 5 in his career... maybe in spurts he still has it... the Top 5ness...

lol what

2014 Duncan is a good seven years removed from 'top 5ness'.

[305Baller]

Ben Wallace was such a defensive presence.. I totally believe he was a top 5 transcendent talent in his prime.



Anyone that thinks this thread is stupid is too stupid to realize they are stupid. It's stupid.

[T_L_P]

Duncan elevated his play in the playoffs in 2007 and played like a top 5 player. Same with Dirk in 2011. He was the best player in the playoffs that year.

http://stats-for-the-nba.appspot.com/ratings/2007.html

Duncan was easily top 5 in 07, as was Garnett in 08.

[T_L_P]

Yup, past his prime, considering his prime standarts.

What does that have to do with him being top 5 or not?

I guess he cant be top 10 either since he was past his prime?