Is This Proof That "Team" Ball Is Overrated?

[PsychoBe]

warriors - relies heavily on ball-movement and curry's playmaking. down 1-2.

spurs - relies heavily on ball-movement and spacing. out of the postseason.

hawks - relies heavily on ball-movement and spacing. down 1-2 and were down as many as 20+ points.

vs

grizzlies - z-bo & gasol + friends.

bulls - rose & butler + friends.

cavs - bran & irving + friends.

wizards - paul pierce.

clippers - griffin & paul + friends and coach's son.

it seems like every team that isn't able to rely on that one player to consistently bail them out at the end of games in the post-season is struggling mightily at the moment.

[Quickening]

Spurs who won the title last year? :biggums:

[Genaro]

Rockets?
Cavs is in the same situation as Hawks and Warriors, why are they in the group of the people leading the series?

[KembaWalker]

Grizzlies should be in the team ball category, Grizz lose game 2 without Conley and Allen's defense

[iamgine]

Is this the same Spurs that's been the most successful team in this era?

[Sarcastic]

Spurs have one of the top 10 players in the history of the game. That's pretty much the only reason they have 5 rings.

[keep-itreal]

Warriors - Teamball isn't the problem. They're a jumpshooting team.

Spurs - won a title last year

Hawks - Bunch of roleplayers. No go-to scorer, no all-star/superstar to close out games

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Spurs have one of the top 10 players in the history of the game. That's pretty much the only reason they have 5 rings.

:applause:

[DCL]

can you name a hall of famer from the 2000s detroit pistons?

ok, i'll give you one. darko milicic

[JohnMax]

Thabo Sefolosha is the reason the Hawks suck. He's as good on defense as Tony Allen.

[HOoopCityJones]

Is this the same Spurs that's been the most successful team in this era?

> Won one Championship

> Most successful Team of 10's Era


Miami have two, outta four straight Finals. :confusedshrug:

Spurs choked epically in the first series they had against Miami, came back and redeemed themselves and failed to repeat like always.

It wasn't true the previous Era and it's not true now.

00's Era

Spurs: 3

Lakers: 5

[sd3035]

warriors - relies heavily on ball-movement and curry's playmaking. down 1-2.

spurs - relies heavily on ball-movement and spacing. out of the postseason.

hawks - relies heavily on ball-movement and spacing. down 1-2 and were down as many as 20+ points.

vs

grizzlies - z-bo & gasol + friends.

bulls - rose & butler + friends.

cavs - bran & irving + friends.

wizards - paul pierce.

clippers - griffin & paul + friends and coach's son.

it seems like every team that isn't able to rely on that one player to consistently bail them out at the end of games in the post-season is struggling mightily at the moment.


Wizards don't really belong on that list

[DMAVS41]

You win with superstars in the playoffs. Has always been that way and I see no reason why it won't remain that way.

Obviously there are teams that win without one, but it's very rare.

And you often need two top 10 type players to win it all. All you have to do is go down the list of championship teams in NBA history and you'll find that a large majority of them have an all time great player and at least 1 other All NBA type player on the team.

You'll also find good to great coaches on those lists. You won't find Avery Johnson or Scott Brooks or Monty Williams or Long Kruger or Frank Hamblen or Jim Cleamons or Tim Floyd or Gar Heard...etc.

Sadly my Mavs have had so many bad coaches...

[ArbitraryWater]

lol at mentioning Grizzlies and Wiz, Grizz play team ball as much as anyone.

[DMAVS41]

lol at mentioning Grizzlies and Wiz, Grizz play team ball as much as anyone.

Yea, but Gasol/Randolph/Conley are all "All-NBA type players"...and Gasol when he's right is pretty much a top 10 player in the game.

Not sure there are many guys I'd take over a 20/10/4 elite defense playing Marc Gasol right now.

I get your point and I take it, but they aren't the hawks or something. They have more than that....

[Spurs5Rings2014]

It wasn't true the previous Era and it's not true now.

00's Era

Spurs: 3

Lakers: 5

You just said the '10 era then counted 2010 as the '00 era.

:facepalm

[HOoopCityJones]

You just said the '10 era then counted 2010 as the '00 era.

:facepalm

:cheers: Good point.

00's

Spurs: 3

Lakers: 4


10's

Spurs: 1

Lakers: 1


Point still stands, Miami has owned this era so far, Lakers own the previous Era.

[iamgine]

> Won one Championship

> Most successful Team of 10's Era


Miami have two, outta four straight Finals. :confusedshrug:

Spurs choked epically in the first series they had against Miami, came back and redeemed themselves and failed to repeat like always.

It wasn't true the previous Era and it's not true now.

00's Era

Spurs: 3

Lakers: 5
Those are decades, not era.

[HOoopCityJones]

Those are decades, not era.

What do you consider their "Era" then? :rolleyes:

[ArbitraryWater]

What do you consider their "Era" then? :rolleyes:

Do you not know the definitions of these words :biggums:

2000's is their era, but you can't say "2000's era"..

[HOoopCityJones]

Do you not know the definitions of these words :biggums:

2000's is their era, but you can't say "2000's era"..

But you just said exactly that you stupid piece of shit. :roll:

[dunksby]

Yea, but Gasol/Randolph/Conley are all "All-NBA type players"...and Gasol when he's right is pretty much a top 10 player in the game.

Not sure there are many guys I'd take over a 20/10/4 elite defense playing Marc Gasol right now.

I get your point and I take it, but they aren't the hawks or something. They have more than that....
Who said stars can't play team ball? :facepalm

[iamgine]

What do you consider their "Era" then? :rolleyes:
Depends. David Stern era for example, lasted from 1984-2014.

[HOoopCityJones]

Depends. David Stern era for example, lasted from 1984-2014.

You're speaking in broader terms of careers and shit, I'm talking about when the bulk of their winning happened. Which is the 00's.

[CelticBaller]

Yea, but Gasol/Randolph/Conley are all "All-NBA type players"...and Gasol when he's right is pretty much a top 10 player in the game.

Not sure there are many guys I'd take over a 20/10/4 elite defense playing Marc Gasol right now.

I get your point and I take it, but they aren't the hawks or something. They have more than that....
And the warriors have klay and curry


Still team ball, op is an idiot

[SCdac]

NBA is a team game

:biggums:

[ArbitraryWater]

Who said stars can't play team ball? :facepalm

ay, you made my point.. yea, people have different definitions for the term. But naturally, we should be right.

[iamgine]

You're speaking in broader terms of careers and shit, I'm talking about when the bulk of their winning happened. Which is the 00's.
And that is decade.

[hitmanyr2k]

It shows that old school low post play can still dominate today's era of 3 point chucker ball. Some fools were saying that posting up was harder today because of that "advanced defense" bullshit and that's why post play was diminishing :oldlol:

[DonDadda59]

Not at all, but it shows the value of having relaible 'go to' guys aka stars. Tony Parker was garbage all year long and that didn't change in the playoffs. Hawks are a random collection of role players (as were the Bucks, Celtics) with no clear 1st or even 2nd option. And pretty boy jump shooting has never taken anyone far in the postseason, so no surprise with Golden State getting bullied by the Grizzlies.

[3ball]

it seems like every team that isn't able to rely on that one player to consistently bail them out at the end of games in the post-season is struggling mightily at the moment.


Anyone can copy strategy, so it always turns into a stalemate (see Warriors and Hawks copying the Spurs).. But individually-unique skill or talent can't be replicated and is therefore more sustainable in the long run than strategy..

In today's game, teams have finished climbing the learning curve of today's spaced-out game - they've caught up to where the Spurs were at, so now it's coming down to who has the more skilled PLAYERS - with optimal strategy settled, that's where the value-add will be from now on.

In previous eras, the value-add HAD to come from the players.. The lack of spacing reduced the likelihood that ball movement would get an open shot - so there were no bird-fed positions like today's 3-and-D wings or D-and-dunk bigs.. ALL of the players in previous eras resembled the higher level individually-unique skill seen by the guys who've taken over these guys playoffs (Zach, Gasol, Pierce, etc).
.

[SourSamCassell]

For all the rules changes and what not,

In the play-offs, things are generally the same as they've always been

Defenses can be more physical, I've seen plenty of hand-checking defense out on the perimeter that would be called in the regular season... For this reason, being able to defend with more energy, tightness and physicality; shooters are not scoring as efficiently. The Miami Lebron drive and kick offense worked because having Lebron and Dwyane, two of the best slashers of all time, afforded their shooters with more space and comfort to knock down shots. San Antonio the last few years were just offensive perfection, and they exposed Miami's defensive scheme... They just moved the ball so fast....

Golden State really don't have a real elite slasher...They get their open looks from great coaching and offensive sets... Which is fine, but due to the nature of playoffs officiating, doesn't work as well as in the regular season.

I guess what I'm saying here is that... You need superstars to win. One that is either a dominant post presence or an elite slasher that can put his team on his back and keep them afloat when the calls aren't going their way or shots aren't falling

[joe]

The Hawks have not been playing team ball though. They have been going 1 on 1 every play and disregarding ball movement.

The Warriors have great ball movement but Curry and his dumb shot selection are the problem. He needs to take those retarded off the dribble 3s out of his arsenal quickly.

[scott0326]

Yep, wizards just rely solely on Paul Pierce

[DMAVS41]

Who said stars can't play team ball? :facepalm

What?

I didn't say they couldn't. I said that it usually takes all nba type players within any system to win.

I don't think the Hawks, for example, are winning...and it's not the system they have that is the problem. I don't think they have enough star type players that can take over games.

Even with the Spurs, Duncan and Leonard were both all nba type players that could take over and dominate games (at least defensively)...

You want to win the NBA title. It almost always takes a superstar or star, an all nba type player, and a quality head coach.

Very rarely, if ever, do teams win without some combination of that.

[305Baller]

You need a TEAM with top talent.

[Euroleague]

Anyone that thinks the Grizzles and Cavs don't play team basketball is a true moron.

[Euroleague]

Anyone can copy strategy, so it always turns into a stalemate (see Warriors and Hawks copying the Spurs).. But individually-unique skill or talent can't be replicated and is therefore more sustainable in the long run than strategy..

In today's game, teams have finished climbing the learning curve of today's spaced-out game - they've caught up to where the Spurs were at, so now it's coming down to who has the more skilled PLAYERS - with optimal strategy settled, that's where the value-add will be from now on.

In previous eras, the value-add HAD to come from the players.. The lack of spacing reduced the likelihood that ball movement would get an open shot - so there were no bird-fed positions like today's 3-and-D wings or D-and-dunk bigs.. ALL of the players in previous eras resembled the higher level individually-unique skill seen by the guys who've taken over these guys playoffs (Zach, Gasol, Pierce, etc).
.

:lol :oldlol: :roll:

NBA is about 20 years behind the offensive strategy in Europe.

[GimmeThat]

You set the play with 3 routes for your WR to run. HOW he runs it and where he runs is all based off of the defenders reaction. All while the QB ought to know to look where.

All this without audibles.


#

[Euroleague]

For all the rules changes and what not,

In the play-offs, things are generally the same as they've always been

Defenses can be more physical, I've seen plenty of hand-checking defense out on the perimeter that would be called in the regular season... For this reason, being able to defend with more energy, tightness and physicality; shooters are not scoring as efficiently. The Miami Lebron drive and kick offense worked because having Lebron and Dwyane, two of the best slashers of all time, afforded their shooters with more space and comfort to knock down shots. San Antonio the last few years were just offensive perfection, and they exposed Miami's defensive scheme... They just moved the ball so fast....

Golden State really don't have a real elite slasher...They get their open looks from great coaching and offensive sets... Which is fine, but due to the nature of playoffs officiating, doesn't work as well as in the regular season.

I guess what I'm saying here is that... You need superstars to win. One that is either a dominant post presence or an elite slasher that can put his team on his back and keep them afloat when the calls aren't going their way or shots aren't falling


That's strange, because according to ESPN, Curry is basically the best point guard ever...............