Is Curry a Nash type of MVP?

[Ca$H]

Just a regular season media darling? Curry hasn't stepped up at all against Memphis. One of the most embarrassing performances by an MVP in NBA history.
As a Curry stan I am embarrassed. :facepalm

[JerrySeinfeld]

yeah, he was.

but I thought everyone, the media included, was aware of that.

[SourSamCassell]

Nash is 10x better.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nash's numbers go up in the 2005/2006 playoffs and he makes the conference finals in each year but he's a regular season media darling. :rolleyes:

Will neg.

[Ca$H]

Nash is 10x better.

LOL. Nash is worse. He is the ultimate beta.

[Bernkastel]

Is OP an ISH type of MVP?

An unfunny shitposter? He's been here for five years and hasn't improved at all. It's pretty embarrassing.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

LOL. Nash is worse. He is the ultimate beta.

Will neg repeatedly. You're ****ing clueless.

[Proctor]

LOL. Nash is worse. He is the ultimate beta.
Comeone men :facepalm

[Ca$H]

Should I stick with Curry guys? I was a Jordan stan first then I became a Kobe stan. Now I'm a Curry stan. Maybe I should just stan Wiggins?

[Fudge]

Even worse.

Honestly may be the worst MVP of all-time.

[SaltyMeatballs]

LOL. Nash is worse. He is the ultimate beta.
Nash didnt make himself look like a fool by salsa dancing
Nash didn't chew on his mouth guard
Nash never danced like an idiot after a shot
Nash wasn't cocky or arrogant

Curry the real beta. He's also a bitch.

[Lensanity]

Nash in the playoffs > Nash in the regular season

OP should have been aborted

[Rocketswin2013]

They're not close to the same level. Nash turned guys into all-stars.

[T_L_P]

Nash was still a very, very good Playoff performer.

He just got beat by better players (Duncan, Dirk). Nothing wrong with that.

[PickernRoller]

Nash is 10x better.

I wouldn't say 10x better cause that would be hyperbole. But, 3x better is factually correct.

[Ca$H]

They're not close to the same level. Nash turned guys into all-stars.

Nash was just a great fit in MDA's system. Nash wasn't that great in Dallas. He was an all star but not a superstar in Dallas.

[oarabbus]

Should I stick with Curry guys? I was a Jordan stan first then I became a Kobe stan. Now I'm a Curry stan. Maybe I should just stan Wiggins?


Pathetic

[k0kakw0rld]

Just a regular season media darling? Curry hasn't stepped up at all against Memphis. One of the most embarrassing performances by an MVP in NBA history.
As a Curry stan I am embarrassed. :facepalm
Nah more like a Derrick Rose type MVP...The curse been activated ever since game 2. :facepalm

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nash was just a great fit in MDA's system. Nash wasn't that great in Dallas. He was an all star but not a superstar in Dallas.

You're wrong. He led historically great offenses in Dallas. Since 1977-1978 (the first year for which ORTG is available), Nash has led the top-5 all-time offenses as far as differential relative to league average. The #1 and #3 seasons both came in Dallas.

Shut the **** up you clown.

[Ca$H]

You're wrong. He led historically great offenses in Dallas. Since 1977-1978 (the first year for which ORTG is available), Nash has led the top-5 all-time offenses as far as differential relative to league average. The #1 and #3 seasons both came in Dallas.

Shut the **** up you clown.

Location: Canada. I understand bro. :oldlol:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Location: Canada. I understand bro. :oldlol:

My location doesn't matter. You're wrong.

https://turnernbahangtime.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/20141024_nash.gif

[Ca$H]

Pathetic

I know. I am originally from the Bay Area. So I started stanning Curry last season. I figured it makes sense since I'm from the Bay Area. I just don't have the same confidence in him that I had in MJ and Kobe. Hopefully he turns it around. MJ and Kobe were selfish arrogant a$$holes. Curry is humble, nice, and a great role model. I really want a guy like him to succeed.

[SaltyMeatballs]

My location doesn't matter. You're wrong.

https://turnernbahangtime.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/20141024_nash.gif
Owned that clown. He tried ignoring your post by bringing up your location :roll: :roll:

[Ca$H]

My location doesn't matter. You're wrong.

https://turnernbahangtime.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/20141024_nash.gif

zero championships. He didn't even make it to the finals.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

zero championships. He didn't even make it to the finals.

You said a) that he wasn't as effective in the playoffs and b) that he was a product of a system.

a) His numbers went up in the playoffs. It wasn't his fault that he ran into great teams. He was an excellent playoff performer, it takes a team to win a series.

b) See picture from previous post. You're a ****ing moron.

Bookmarked for additional future negs.

[TheBigVeto]

Now Nash is still better than Curry. In the future this might change.

[Euroleague]

To even suggest this is an outrageous insult to Nash. Curry is not even 1/4 the player Nash was.

[Ca$H]

Nash played with Dirk and Finely. Dirk is better than everyone on the Warriors. Finely is probably better than Curry's #2 option Klay. Nash couldn't get it done when he had Dirk, Finely, Jamison, and Walker. He also couldn't get it done when he had Amare, Joe Johnson, and the Matrix. So many stacked teams with no results.

[Ca$H]

Comeone men :facepalm

LOL. I guess I'm just trying to act like a penase men.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Nash played with Dirk and Finely. Dirk is better than everyone on the Warriors. Finely is probably better than Curry's #2 option Klay. Nash couldn't get it done when he had Dirk, Finely, Jamison, and Walker. He also couldn't get it done when he had Amare, Joe Johnson, and the Matrix. So many stacked teams with no results.

You're not smart. Stop posting.

[Ca$H]

I want to give Steve Nash a rimjob and drink his diarrhea like a chocolate milkshake.

:biggums:

[Lensanity]

As a Suns fan I can honestly say that Steve Nash had the single greatest impact on a team than any other player I have ever watched in my life. He had some pretty good backup PG's yet the team still absolutely collapsed EVERY TIME he came out of the game.

The offense even collapsed every time Leandro Barbosa came in for Nash the year LB won 6th Man of the Year. I have never seen anything like it. No other player will ever lead the #1 offense in the league that many years in a row.

Nash > Curry although Curry is no slouch

Nash's numbers also exploded in the playoffs. He put up some video game stat lines in huge games

I seriously think OP is less than 15 years old

[TheMarkMadsen]

not really

Nash benefited from the league trying to clean up its image after the malice in the palace, and the whole Kobe situation, this is when they began to change the criteria to "best player on the best team" in order to justify giving the MVP to a guy who was barely putting up better individual stats than the year before when he hadn't even made the all star team

Curry benefited from the real MVP being hurt, Lebrons decline, WB being inured, Harden beinga a fraud.. just weak competition overall

[24-Inch_Chrome]

not really

Nash benefited from the league trying to clean up its image after the malice in the palace, and the whole Kobe situation, this is when they began to change the criteria to "best player on the best team" in order to justify giving the MVP to a guy who was barely putting up better individual stats than the year before when he hadn't even made the all star team

Curry benefited from the real MVP being hurt, Lebron's decline, WB being inured, Harden being a a fraud.. just weak competition overall

Impact >>>>>>>> stats. Even with relatively low stats he still had a GOAT-tier offensive impact with historically elite shooting. No one else in the league impacted their team the way that he did, and no PG has ever had a similar offensive impact.

If you prefer to chalk up the value of a player to their stats, that's your business and you're entitled to that view, but it shouldn't come at the expense of being able to recognize historically great impact and applaud it as such.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Impact >>>>>>>> stats. Even with relatively low stats he still had a GOAT-tier offensive impact with historically elite shooting. No one else in the league impacted their team the way that he did, and no PG has ever had a similar offensive impact.

If you prefer to chalk up the value of a player to their stats, that's your business and you're entitled to that view, but it shouldn't come at the expense of being able to recognize historically great impact and applaud it as such.

not even sure why you're addressing this to me considering it has nothing to do with my post


No one else in the league impacted their team the way that he did, and no PG has ever had a similar offensive impact.

i'll take the point guard who impacted his team enough to win titles, but if you prefer to chalk up the value of a player to their regular season offensive team stats, that's your business and you're entitled to that view.. but it shouldn't come at the expense of not being able to recognize that this guy

http://www.aneki.com/images/greatest_basketball_players/act_magic_johnson.jpg

impacted the game more offensively than Nash..

[24-Inch_Chrome]

impacted the game more offensively than Nash..

That's not true. :confusedshrug:

If you're going to try to trivialize his MVPs you should expect a response..

[TheMarkMadsen]

That's not true. :confusedshrug:

If you're going to try to trivialize his MVPs you should expect a response..

Magic had more impact on the game offensively than Nash, especially in the post season where its not even close to who had more impact

you can't be serious :lol :lol

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Magic had more impact on the game offensively than Nash, especially in the post season where its not even close to who had more impact

you can't be serious :lol :lol

Here's the difference between our positions: mine is quantifiable and is backed by statistical evidence making it clear that Nash's offensive impact is unparalleled. Yours is backed by narrative and conjecture.

If we're gonna talk playoffs...the Lakers played in a weak conference, Phoenix did not. Nash elevated his game in the playoffs but ran into elite contenders every year. Sometimes it just isn't meant to be as far as team success but that doesn't undermine his contributions.

[Lensanity]

Nash would have rings on his fingers if the team did not completely collapse every single time he subbed out of the game in the Playoffs. This is a fact.

[Lensanity]

not even sure why you're addressing this to me considering it has nothing to do with my post



i'll take the point guard who impacted his team enough to win titles, but if you prefer to chalk up the value of a player to their regular season offensive team stats, that's your business and you're entitled to that view.. but it shouldn't come at the expense of not being able to recognize that this guy

http://www.aneki.com/images/greatest_basketball_players/act_magic_johnson.jpg

impacted the game more offensively than Nash..


At least pick a PG that didn't have Kareem on his team while we are talking about impact :facepalm

[TheMarkMadsen]

Here's the difference between our positions: mine is quantifiable and is backed by statistical evidence making it clear that Nash's offensive impact is unparalleled. Yours is backed by narrative and conjecture.

If we're gonna talk playoffs...the Lakers played in a weak conference, Phoenix did not. Nash elevated his game in the playoffs but ran into elite contenders every year. Sometimes it just isn't meant to be as far as team success but that doesn't undermine his contributions.

what is this statistical evidence that somehow proves to you that Nash's impact was more than Magics.. i mean seriously this is absurd

all you've posted is regular season team stats.. who cares..

Nash was great, but if his impact was better than Magics, you'd think the finals made count wouldn't be sitting at 9-0 in favor of Magic..

sorry bud, but if you're trying to argue that Nash had more impact than a guy who led his team to the finals 9 times and won 5 rings..

..while accumulating the most assist in playoff history, the most triple doubles in playoff history..

you're going to need to come with something better than "sometimes it just isn't meant to be" when trying to explain why Nash never made a finals in his 17 year career

[24-Inch_Chrome]

what is this statistical evidence that somehow proves to you that Nash's impact was more than Magics.. i mean seriously this is absurd

all you've posted is regular season team stats.. who cares..

Nash was great, but if his impact was better than Magics, you'd think the finals made count wouldn't be sitting at 9-0 in favor of Magic..

sorry bud, but if you're trying to argue that Nash had more impact than a guy who led his team to the finals 9 times and won 5 rings..

..while accumulating the most assist in playoff history, the most triple doubles in playoff history..

you're going to need to come with something better than "sometimes it just isn't meant to be" when trying to explain why Nash never made a finals in his 17 year career

Did you not see that image I posted on the previous page? I can re-post, but it's still there. Statistical evidence that Nash's offensive impact was unparalleled.

Nash's problem was a) that Phoenix couldn't cope with him sitting but also b) that he didn't have a defensive impact to match his offensive one. I'm not calling him the greatest PG ever, I think I've been careful to say that I'm applying that title only to the offensive side of the position.

You're acting as though their teams and the conferences that they played in are equivalent. They aren't. Context is important.

[D.J.]

Nash deserved his 2005 MVP. It was 2006 MVP that wasn't deserved(Dirk and Kobe both had better cases). I'm no Nash fan and his lack of D did him in, but he did elevate his play in the postseason and he did lose to very good opponents(prime Duncan, prime Dirk, Kobe). Curry led the Warriors to 67 wins and they currently trail Memphis in the series. It's no disrespect to the Grizz as they're a very solid team(especially on the defensive end), but Marc Gasol and Zach Randolph aren't exactly Tim Duncan and Dirk Nowitzki.

[TheBigVeto]

this guy

http://www.aneki.com/images/greatest_basketball_players/act_magic_johnson.jpg

impacted the game more offensively than Nash..

That guy rode Kareem's coattails.
Not even half as good as Nash.

[D.J.]

That guy rode Kareem's coattails.
Not even half as good as Nash.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=au7WJbus5BM


Kareem didn't play BTW.

[Lensanity]

Did you not see that image I posted on the previous page? I can re-post, but it's still there. Statistical evidence that Nash's offensive impact was unparalleled.

Nash's problem was a) that Phoenix couldn't cope with him sitting but also b) that he didn't have a defensive impact to match his offensive one. I'm not calling him the greatest PG ever, I think I've been careful to say that I'm applying that title only to the offensive side of the position.

You're acting as though their teams and the conferences that they played in are equivalent. They aren't. Context is important.


You are pretty much spot on here.

His back problem was a death sentence to Phoenix because he had to rest at least a little. Even with a 6MOY backup PG the offense still collapsed with Nash out of the game. He's not the greatest PG ever but he is without a doubt top 5. He was a negative impact defender but this negative impact was small, literally less than 10% as significant as his offensive impact.

The real problem was the Suns had no center to control the paint on defense. Nash's perimeter D was below average but the real problem was his defense around the basket. When another PG not in the paint it usually resulted in a layup or easy shot because of Nash's size. Just a center with a defensive presence would have made an out of this world impact on this. I can only imagine how good the Suns would have been with a DeAndre Jordan on that team. They would have absolutely STEAMROLLED the playoffs. It wouldn't even be fair

[Mrofir]

The fact that this has turned into a Magic vs Nash debate speaks to just how absurd the original topic was.

[deja vu]

Nash was better than Curry. Only things Curry is better than Nash is scoring and defense. Although I still think Nash should have only 1 MVP, he turned Phoenix into a contender. Problem is a run-and-gun system is ineffective in the post-season and his team was not a great defensive team. Defense wins championships is kind of cliche but it's true as his team couldn't stop opponents from scoring.

Let's just wait and see if Curry can still prove that he really deserves the MVP. I think GSW can bounce back and win the series in 6 or 7.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

what is this statistical evidence that somehow proves to you that Nash's impact was more than Magics.. i mean seriously this is absurd

all you've posted is regular season team stats.. who cares..

Nash was great, but if his impact was better than Magics, you'd think the finals made count wouldn't be sitting at 9-0 in favor of Magic..

sorry bud, but if you're trying to argue that Nash had more impact than a guy who led his team to the finals 9 times and won 5 rings..

..while accumulating the most assist in playoff history, the most triple doubles in playoff history..

you're going to need to come with something better than "sometimes it just isn't meant to be" when trying to explain why Nash never made a finals in his 17 year career

:biggums:

You can't argue Magic is better than Nash because he has rings without mentioning how he played with a top 2-5 GOAT, a top 4 GOAT coach, a top 5/10 GOAT SF, a GOAT 6MOY, etc etc etc in one of the worst conferences of all time. Shit is just absurd.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You are pretty much spot on here.

His back problem was a death sentence to Phoenix because he had to rest at least a little. Even with a 6MOY backup PG the offense still collapsed with Nash out of the game. He's not the greatest PG ever but he is without a doubt top 5. He was a negative impact defender but this negative impact was small, literally less than 10% as significant as his offensive impact.

The real problem was the Suns had no center to control the paint on defense. Nash's perimeter D was below average but the real problem was his defense around the basket. When another PG not in the paint it usually resulted in a layup or easy shot because of Nash's size. Just a center with a defensive presence would have made an out of this world impact on this. I can only imagine how good the Suns would have been with a DeAndre Jordan on that team. They would have absolutely STEAMROLLED the playoffs. It wouldn't even be fair

Great post. :applause:

Will rep.

[TheMarkMadsen]

:biggums:

You can't argue Magic is better than Nash because he has rings without mentioning how he played with a top 2-5 GOAT, a top 4 GOAT coach, a top 5/10 GOAT SF, a GOAT 6MOY, etc etc etc in one of the worst conferences of all time. Shit is just absurd.

the burden of proof isn't on me. To say Nash had more impact than Magic is ridiculous, impact doesn't begin and end on the stat sheet.

and in 1991, with no KAJ, no Riley, no "GOAT 6moy" still makes the finals..

beat a 60 win team and 50 win team to get there

the only thing Nash could do better than Magic was shooting. And even that difference doesn't come close to making up the impact Magic over Nash in all other categories, including

Magic w/o KAJ in a game the Lakers needed in the playoffs and he puts up 42/15/7 as a rookie win the game for his team..

Nash w/o Dirk in a game the Mavs needed in the playoffs and he puts up 25/2/2 with 3 turnovers in a loss, then stinks it up the next game.. Dallas still wins.. then just absolutly shits the bed in game 6 with 6 points on 10 shots

[Young X]

Impact >>>>>>>> stats. Even with relatively low stats he still had a GOAT-tier offensive impact with historically elite shooting. No one else in the league impacted their team the way that he did, and no PG has ever had a similar offensive impact.

If you prefer to chalk up the value of a player to their stats, that's your business and you're entitled to that view, but it shouldn't come at the expense of being able to recognize historically great impact and applaud it as such.Magic led the highest rated regular season and playoff offense in NBA history.

[TheMarkMadsen]

Did you not see that image I posted on the previous page? I can re-post, but it's still there. Statistical evidence that Nash's offensive impact was unparalleled.

Nash's problem was a) that Phoenix couldn't cope with him sitting but also b) that he didn't have a defensive impact to match his offensive one. I'm not calling him the greatest PG ever, I think I've been careful to say that I'm applying that title only to the offensive side of the position.

You're acting as though their teams and the conferences that they played in are equivalent. They aren't. Context is important.

did you not see my response to this... if are trying to claim that Nash's offensive impact was better than Magics then regular season team stats aren't going to sway the argument considering Magic made his legendary impact over and over again in the playoffs

if you want to talk purely regular season then okay.. but Magics impact spans far beyond what he did in the regular season..

[TheMarkMadsen]

:biggums:

You can't argue Magic is better than Nash because he has rings without mentioning how he played with a top 2-5 GOAT, a top 4 GOAT coach, a top 5/10 GOAT SF, a GOAT 6MOY, etc etc etc in one of the worst conferences of all time. Shit is just absurd.

another thing.. as soon as Oscar left KAJ, KAJ MISSED THE PLAYOFFS 2 years in a row during his prime and (75 & 76)

swept out of the second round in 77

swept in the first round of 78

lost in 5 in the second round of 79

Wins a ring during Magic's rookie season of 1980

but that's none of my business

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Magic led the highest rated regular season and playoff offense in NBA history.

I believe I have made it quite clear that I was talking differentials, something that was shown in the image I posted a few pages back. For example, a 120 ORTG in a season where league average is 118 isn't nearly as impressive as a 110 ORTG in a season where league average is 100.

Nash's best postseason ORTG differential was better than any of Magic's that I saw. The best ORTG postseason for Magic that I found was a +7 relative to league average (1985); the 2005 Suns were +10.4.

[FKAri]

Magic is quite possibly the most overrated player of all time. Still better than Nash tho. A little bit of charisma and flair will really do a number for a player's rep.

[D.J.]

Magic is quite possibly the most overrated player of all time. Still better than Nash tho. A little bit of charisma and flair will really do a number for a player's rep.


5 titles, 3 Finals MVPs, 3 regular season MVPs, and 9 All-NBA 1st teams is overrated? :facepalm Go tell Kareem that Magic is overrated. Because when Kareem was injured and couldn't play in a crucial Finals game, a 20 year old Magic won them the title.

[SCdac]

MVP = an offensive award... at least it's become one/been one for awhile.. in saying that Curry deserved it, had a great RS

[FKAri]

5 titles, 3 Finals MVPs, 3 regular season MVPs, and 9 All-NBA 1st teams is overrated? :facepalm Go tell Kareem that Magic is overrated. Because when Kareem was injured and couldn't play in a crucial Finals game, a 20 year old Magic won them the title.

ah yes that memorable Magic sky hook!!!111 Couldn't match Bird in his prime and is probably below Kobe all time as well. Doesn't have a mind for the game like a Kidd or Stockton. But his skill level is exaggerated as he was such an unusually big guard with real point guard skills I will admit. But the romance behind him from the day he was drafted till now really paints him in too flattering of a light.

[ILLsmak]

As a Suns fan I can honestly say that Steve Nash had the single greatest impact on a team than any other player I have ever watched in my life. He had some pretty good backup PG's yet the team still absolutely collapsed EVERY TIME he came out of the game.

The offense even collapsed every time Leandro Barbosa came in for Nash the year LB won 6th Man of the Year. I have never seen anything like it. No other player will ever lead the #1 offense in the league that many years in a row.

Nash > Curry although Curry is no slouch

Nash's numbers also exploded in the playoffs. He put up some video game stat lines in huge games

I seriously think OP is less than 15 years old

They had no good back ups. For a team dependent on nash, they had no one to keep it going. Barbosa is a slasher.

Also curry is young. Curry could be as good as nash. Not as good at pg, but as an impact player. We'll have to see. They haven't even lost yet. They could win the championship.

-Smak

[D.J.]

ah yes that memorable Magic sky hook!!!111


That was '87.



Couldn't match Bird in his prime


Him and Bird were more or less equal and Magic defeated Bird in the Finals 3 of the 4 times they played. Magic also won LA their '87 title.



and is probably below Kobe all time as well.


:facepalm Kobe is borderline top 10. Magic is around 5, 6 at worst.



Doesn't have a mind for the game like a Kidd or Stockton.


Wow, just wow.



But his skill level is exaggerated as he was such an unusually big guard with real point guard skills I will admit. But the romance behind him from the day he was drafted till now really paints him in too flattering of a light.


He's the GOAT PG. How would you prefer the media to paint him?