Lebron has now hit more GW shots in playoffs than Jordan.

[pauk]

Just some data & stats news.... it doesnt mean anything more than that, i just find it notable/interesting Lebron made & took more gamewinning/gametying shots than Jordan in playoffs in less games, but then again he may also been put in more crucial last second gamewinning/gamelosing possession situations than Jordan, not compared to Kobe though (who played many more games than Jordan & took the most gw/gt shots under 10 secs.)...

Criteria:

With 10 secs or less left in 4th or OT, fieldgoal to take the lead or tie the game.

Lebron James -

1 shot to tie the game
7 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
11 missed

Total - 8 of 19 (42.1%) in 166 playoff games

Michael Jordan

Total - 7 of 15 (46.6%) in 179 playoff games.

Kobe Bryant -

2 shots to tie the game
3 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
17 missed

Total - 5 of 22 (22.7%) in 220 playoff games.





Source:
Basketball-reference shot & game finders, no problem for Kobe/Lebron but it doesnt date back enough to cover all those Jordans shots in detail so i used THIS (click me) (http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/bwtxfczcmae-dec-large.png) aswell, in those shots the photo is about ~2-3 years old(?), since that photo nothing changed for Kobe (and obviously Jordan) but Lebron however added 2 more (1 gamewinner & 1 buzzer beating gamewinner) out of 5.... which now also from what i heard (click me) (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/105527/james-3rd-career-playoff-buzzer-beater-ties-series) ties Jordan for most buzzer beating gamewinners in playoffs aswell...


Jordan is the GOAT, was the better player, Jordan > Lebron, all praise the almighty untouchable Jordan and all that hoopla.... doesnt mean anything except what this above literally means, which is simply Lebron has hit more gamewinners in the playoffs than Jordan... so please dont accuse me of such an agenda with this, the only agenda here is that its just some data & news i found interesting & impressive i wanted to share and perhaps commend Lebron a bit maybe, this is not bad afterall and kindof thread worthy, thats it...

[JerrySeinfeld]

these stats are pointless because they are narrowed down to some form of arbitrary critera that leaves other shit out.

in many cases a player hits a game winner in the form of the other team having to play the foul game to have a chance but end up losing, or they miss a shot that was needed with 10.2 seconds left to win the game, etc.

[TheMarkMadsen]

so that point blank lay up Lebron missed at the end of game 3 doesn't count as a clutch shot missed

ok

[chips93]

why would you include game tying shots if you're talking about game winners?

[pauk]

why would you include game tying shots if you're talking about game winners?

Because that is the criteria i had to go after to include Jordan since this photo is the only data on Jordan's gamewinners/gametying shots in the playoffs:

http://i.imgur.com/U8SMksl.png

[pauk]

Clutch isn't just game winners.

Clutch is dominance in the 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals..

We have stats for all these clutch areas and MJ is #1 in all of them, by far.

Agree, like i said... doesnt mean anything more than this does.

[christian1923]

Didnt kobe hit like 3 in one game against portland?

[TheMarkMadsen]

I remember when I used to think this shot was clutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCIPacbNxk0

then I realized it wasn't because it came with :25 seconds left in the game

[3ball]

Clutch is dominance in the 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals..

We have stats for all these clutch areas and MJ is #1 in all of them, by far.

Do we really want to start posting comparisons of MJ's 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron?.. It would look pretty ugly to Lebron stans.

[pauk]

Didnt kobe hit like 3 in one game against portland?

This is the only 3 Kobe hit to tie or win the game (this one was a tie) in his playoff career:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shot_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=bryanko01&match=play&year_id=&is_playoffs=Y&team_id=&opp_id=&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=W&shot_pts=3&is_make=Y&shot_type=&shot_distance_min=&shot_distance_max=&q4=Y&q5=Y&time_remain_minutes=0&time_remain_seconds=24&time_remain_comp=le&margin_min=&margin_max=&is_tying=Y&is_go_ahead=Y&c1stat=&c1comp=ge&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=ge&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=ge&c3val=&order_by=fg

[JerrySeinfeld]

I remember when I used to think this shot was clutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCIPacbNxk0

then I realized it wasn't because it came with :25 seconds left in the game

lol Kevin Durant had 3 game winners like this in the playoffs of that shortened year alone.

they probably wouldn't fall within the criteria of whatever arbitrary cut-off OP is setting though (I'm assuming he got it from ESPN so it automatically is set to favor LeBron)

[Hey Yo]

so that point blank lay up Lebron missed at the end of game 3 doesn't count as a clutch shot missed

ok
There was close to like 23 seconds left in the game when that happened.

[ApexPredator]

With 10 secs or less left in 4th or OT, fieldgoal to take the lead or tie the game.

Lebron James -

1 shot to tie the game
7 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
11 missed

Total - 8 of 19 (42.1%) in 166 playoff games

Michael Jordan

Total - 7 of 15 (46.6%) in 179 playoff games.

Kobe Bryant -

2 shots to tie the game
3 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
17 missed

Total - 5 of 22 (22.7%) in 220 playoff games.

The title is misleading, because it implies that LeBron is better, but in fact the stats show that Jordan is clearly better. Jordan has also had less opportunities because of not wasting his time being in close games against teams that are supposed to be inferior to him. Heck, LeBron's game winners include one against the Magic, a team that should have been worse than LeBron's, but won the series anyway.

[pauk]

I remember when I used to think this shot was clutch

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCIPacbNxk0

then I realized it wasn't because it came with :25 seconds left in the game

Hehe exactly, but again thats the criteria i had to go after to include Jordan... i wanted to even include up to 30 seconds, hell sometimes a gamewinner (last basket to take the lead) can come with like 1 or even 2 mins in the 4TH/OT..... where you hit the last basket to take the lead and nobody then scores anything....

I could go with that 30+ seconds criteria on another thread and there also include many more players, however the play-by-play doesnt take back further than 2000, so the more interesting names (Bird, Reggie etc.) cant be included. :(

[Hey Yo]

Agree, like i said... doesnt mean anything more than this does.
How were you able to quote 3ball in post #6 when he never posted before that?

[pauk]

The title is misleading, because it implies that LeBron is better, but in fact the stats show that Jordan is clearly better. Jordan has also had less opportunities because of not wasting his time being in close games against teams that are supposed to be inferior to him. Heck, LeBron's game winners include one against the Magic, a team that should have been worse than LeBron's, but won the series anyway.

Come on now... its not my intention... The title only implies literally that "Lebron has now hit more GW shots in playoffs than Jordan"... nothing more, Lebron has hit more GW shots in playoffs, 1 more, yay.... just like he has made more assists... take it like that...

[Yoshi]

Come on now... its not my intention... The title only implies literally that "Lebron has now hit more GW shots in playoffs than Jordan"... nothing more, Lebron has hit more GW shots in playoffs, 1 more, yay.... just like he has made more assists... take it like that...

:coleman:

[RoseCity07]

Both destroyed Kobe no surprise there.

[Bernkastel]

Basically, Jordan didn't need to make a last second shot as many times as LeBron?

[BigBoss]

2 for 5.

[tmacattack33]

these stats are pointless because they are narrowed down to some form of arbitrary critera that leaves other shit out.

in many cases a player hits a game winner in the form of the other team having to play the foul game to have a chance but end up losing, or they miss a shot that was needed with 10.2 seconds left to win the game, etc.

Umm.... what? If player x gets fouled on purpose when the other team is playing the foul game, then player x is going to be shooting FT's, which are not included in these stats.

[Magic 32]

Do you really have time for this Pauk?

Where is that Jordan flop compilation?

[Magic 32]

so please dont accuse me of such an agenda with this, the only agenda here is that its just some data

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/wizthree420.jpg

[La Frescobaldi]

Do you really have time for this Pauk?

Where is that Jordan flop compilation?

how many years have we been waiting for that

[Optimus Prime]

http://the305.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj.jpg

[Yoshi]

these stats are pointless because they are narrowed down to some form of arbitrary critera that leaves other shit out.

in many cases a player hits a game winner in the form of the other team having to play the foul game to have a chance but end up losing, or they miss a shot that was needed with 10.2 seconds left to win the game, etc.

So you mean late game go ahead buckets.

[Rose'sACL]

I used to see "you have to take the last shot to be clutch" posted everywhere when Lebron-is-not-clutch myth was in full flow.

Now those same people want to ignore it.anyone with eyes knew that lebron is more clutch than Kobe.

Jordan was still more clutch than lebron though.
Kobe made less shots while taking more. Playing in LA has it perks.

[Magic 32]

I used to see "you have to take the last shot to be clutch" posted everywhere when Lebron-is-not-clutch myth was in full flow.

Now those same people want to ignore it.anyone with eyes knew that lebron is more clutch than Kobe.

Jordan was still more clutch than lebron though.
Kobe made less shots while taking more. Playing in LA has it perks.

"I love the east" - Chris Bosh (2013)

[Rose'sACL]

"I love the east" - Chris Bosh (2013)
"West teams other than spurs and grizzlies play tough physical defense in the playoffs"- nobody(2008-2015)

[Magic 32]

"West teams other than spurs and grizzlies play tough physical defense in the playoffs"- nobody(2008-2015)

Are you 5?

[DonDadda59]

So when are you going to differentiate between actual game winners and game-tying shots? :confusedshrug:

[Rose'sACL]

So when are you going to differentiate between actual game winners and game-tying shots? :confusedshrug:
You can do that too you know. Go ahead. Game tying or go ahead is normally the stat used so it is more easily available.
Jordan and lebron both have 3 game winning buzzerr beaters in playoffs. I know that because it was posted on reddit with a source.I can't find just the game winners though. Go do some work and find it out for us.

[Blue&Orange]

That's an amazing stat for someone playing in a historically weak eastern conference against no competition and while in Miami he would avoid them like plague.


Lebron have quantity in pretty much everything but the only thing that all that matters is quantity.



2\5

[ArbitraryWater]

Kobe fans can't stand the fact that Bron is more clutch than him.. eats em alive.

[DonDadda59]

Go do some work and find it out for us.

F*ck you. Pay me.

Not doing someone else's HW on some bullied nerd shit. I didn't write the thread title.

[Magic 32]

Kobe fans can't stand the fact that Bron is more clutch than him.. eats em alive.

The eye test.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/620749_o.gif
http://i.imgur.com/oLCRkqI.jpg


Enjoy another irrelevant catch and shoot buzzer beater against an overrated Eastern Conference team.

The last player who survived Lebron's "clutchness" was just blown out of Staple Center for the second time in 3 night.

[aj1987]

That's an amazing stat for someone playing in a historically weak eastern conference against no competition and while in Miami he would avoid them like plague.


Lebron have quantity in pretty much everything but the only thing that all that matters is quantity.



2\5
Yet, the Knicks are bottom feeding shit hole of a franchise in the "weak" and "no competition" Eastern Conference. :oldlol:

[Rose'sACL]

Kobe fans can't stand the fact that Bron is more clutch than him.. eats em alive.
This forum is filled with lebron haters which is why the forum crashes when he loses a big game but stays perfectly fine when lebron wins a big game or makes a clutch play.

Things would be different if he played for a big market team like LA , NYC or Chicago. The funnies thing is that Knicks fans troll themselves daily just so they can talk shit about lebron. Blue&Orange's post above is a prime example of this.

[chazzy]

This forum is filled with lebron haters which is why the forum crashes when he loses a big game but stays perfectly fine when lebron wins a big game or makes a clutch play.

Things would be different if he played for a big market team like LA , NYC or Chicago. The funnies thing is that Knicks fans troll themselves daily just so they can talk shit about lebron. Blue&Orange's post above is a prime example of this.
Don't kid yourself, there are plenty of Lebron stans like you here "Spurs fan"

[Rose'sACL]

Yet, the Knicks are bottom feeding shit hole of a franchise in the "weak" and "no competition" Eastern Conference. :oldlol:
It must hurt Knicks fans so much that a new franchise like heat is already more successful than knicks while playing in a city which is a way smaller market compared to NYC.

[Rose'sACL]

Don't kid yourself, there are plenty of Lebron stans like you here "Spurs fan"
Each lebron fan is outnumbered at least 3:1 by lebron haters on this forum. Anyone neutral will tell u that.

[NBASTATMAN]

Just some data & stats news.... it doesnt mean anything more than that, i just find it notable/interesting Lebron made & took more gamewinning/gametying shots than Jordan in playoffs in less games, but then again he may also been put in more crucial last second gamewinning/gamelosing possession situations than Jordan, not compared to Kobe though (who played many more games than Jordan & took the most gw/gt shots under 10 secs.)...

Criteria:

With 10 secs or less left in 4th or OT, fieldgoal to take the lead or tie the game.

Lebron James -

1 shot to tie the game
7 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
11 missed

Total - 8 of 19 (42.1%) in 166 playoff games

Michael Jordan

Total - 7 of 15 (46.6%) in 179 playoff games.

Kobe Bryant -

2 shots to tie the game
3 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
17 missed

Total - 5 of 22 (22.7%) in 220 playoff games.





Source:
Basketball-reference shot & game finders, no problem for Kobe/Lebron but it doesnt date back enough to cover all those Jordans shots in detail so i used THIS (click me) (http://swishnba.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/bwtxfczcmae-dec-large.png) aswell, in those shots the photo is about ~2-3 years old(?), since that photo nothing changed for Kobe (and obviously Jordan) but Lebron however added 2 more (1 gamewinner & 1 buzzer beating gamewinner) out of 5.... which now also from what i heard (click me) (http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/105527/james-3rd-career-playoff-buzzer-beater-ties-series) ties Jordan for most buzzer beating gamewinners in playoffs aswell...


Jordan is the GOAT, was the better player, Jordan > Lebron, all praise the almighty untouchable Jordan and all that hoopla.... doesnt mean anything except what this above literally means, which is simply Lebron has hit more gamewinners in the playoffs than Jordan... so please dont accuse me of such an agenda with this, the only agenda here is that its just some data & news i found interesting & impressive i wanted to share and perhaps commend Lebron a bit maybe, this is not bad afterall and kindof thread worthy, thats it...



Maybe one of the top of his generation

https://fivethirtyeight.com/datalab/lebron-may-be-the-most-clutch-playoff-shooter-of-his-generation/

[imdaman99]

It must hurt Knicks fans so much that a new franchise like heat is already more successful than knicks while playing in a city which is a way smaller market compared to NYC.
First you're a Spurs fan that loves Lebron. They get knocked out so now you are a Bulls fan that stans Lebron? Talk about identity crisis :hammerhead:

The Heat have been more successful recently due to collusion. Back when real basketball was being played, the Knicks would routinely beat up on the Heat in the playoffs. It was probably before you were born, so I don't blame you.

[Rose'sACL]

First you're a Spurs fan that loves Lebron. They get knocked out so now you are a Bulls fan that stans Lebron? Talk about identity crisis :hammerhead:

The Heat have been more successful recently due to collusion. Back when real basketball was being played, the Knicks would routinely beat up on the Heat in the playoffs. It was probably before you were born, so I don't blame you.
Riley made a joke out of the Knicks. 1 man who wasn't even a player made you guys look like idiots. He has won more titles since leaving the Knicks than Knicks have won in their entire history. LoL.

In the 90s my bulls and spurs beat you guys up. I keep winning. Knicks have been such a joke.

[KG215]

Jordan is the GOAT, was the better player, Jordan > Lebron, all praise the almighty untouchable Jordan and all that hoopla.... doesnt mean anything except what this above literally means, which is simply Lebron has hit more gamewinners in the playoffs than Jordan... so please dont accuse me of such an agenda with this, the only agenda here is that its just some data & news i found interesting & impressive i wanted to share and perhaps commend Lebron a bit maybe, this is not bad afterall and kindof thread worthy, thats it...
In case anyone was wondering, this is the part pauk added to his post when he edited it.


doesnt mean anything except what this above literally means, which is simply Lebron has hit more gamewinners in the playoffs than Jordan... so please dont accuse me of such an agenda with this, the only agenda here is that its just some data & news i found interesting & impressive
:oldlol:

Good one pauk. Why did you even need to go back four minutes after you post to add this? If you truly are trying to just objectively present some data, then why did you feel the need to defend yourself?

[Asukal]

If you have time to post this meaningless agenda driven garbage, where's that jordan flop video? :biggums:

[DonDadda59]

Why is the cut off 10 seconds? :confusedshrug:

Plenty of game winners are hit with 30+ seconds on the clock... a game winner is a game winner, regardless of how much time is on the clock right?:confusedshrug:

I know MJ hit a game-winning 3 with 25 seconds left in the flu game... why doesn't that count as a game winner?

[Bernkastel]

my bulls and spurs

:coleman:

[KG215]

Why is the cut off 10 seconds? :confusedshrug:

Because pauk.

[jimmy77x]

Cant believe a guy who cant even make jump shots consistently, be compared to the GOAT at anything :lol

[DonDadda59]

Because pauk.

Where dem flops? :confusedshrug:

[Hey Yo]

Why is the cut off 10 seconds? :confusedshrug:

Plenty of game winners are hit with 30+ seconds on the clock... a game winner is a game winner, regardless of how much time is on the clock right?:confusedshrug:

I know MJ hit a game-winning 3 with 25 seconds left in the flu game... why doesn't that count as a game winner?
I'm assuming they use 24 seconds or less as the criteria because the team down by 2 or less can use 23 seconds before taking the game winner/tying shot

No reason for the team that's ahead to foul with less than 24 seconds.

[3ball]

the cutoff


Dumb thread.. :rolleyes:

Clutch isn't just game-winners - it's dominance in the 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals..

Too bad we don't have stats for all these... Oh wait, we do... and MJ is #1 in all of them, by far.

Do we really want to start posting comparisons of MJ's 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron?.. MJ blows Lebron away in these areas.

[ILLsmak]

Seems like its weighted toward being tied. Otherwise, you'd score asap. A tie game shot is good, but less pressure. Would like a larger sample.

-Smak

[Hey Yo]

Dumb thread.. :rolleyes:

Clutch isn't just game-winners - it's dominance in the 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals..

Too bad we don't have stats for all these... Oh wait, we do... and MJ is #1 in all of them, by far.

Do we really want to start posting comparisons of MJ's 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron?.. MJ blows Lebron away in these areas.
What was Jordan's stats in route to his 4th straight Finals appearance? Did he lead his team in MP, points, rebounds, assists and steals?

What were they in route to his 5th straight Finals appearance?

[DMAVS41]

Lebron, when he just has to catch and shoot or go quickly...is an uncanny shot maker.

There is no debating it...he's one of the best ever.

But he doesn't shoot like that often and clearly is over thinking or doing something on shots not in the flow. These late game shots really always come in some type of flow...whether it's catch or shot or Lebron just attacking. He is forced to just go....not hold hold hold hold...take a long shot that doesn't go in often.

Still though. Love or hate Lebron...his play in game tying and game winning situations in his playoff career has been all time elite.

[3ball]

What was Jordan's stats in route to his 4th straight Finals appearance? Did he lead his team in MP, points, rebounds, assists and steals?

What were they in route to his 5th straight Finals appearance?


PLAYOFF AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

Jordan: 35 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG
Lebron: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG


FINALS AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

Jordan: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 50% FG
Lebron: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG

Source: basketball-reference.com


So who cares if Lebron leads his team in assists, if MJ still got more assists than him... This was while scoring 25% more in the playoffs and 50% more in the Finals on better efficiency - indeed, Lebron needs 1.5 Finals games to match 1 Finals game from MJ (24 PPG to MJ's 36 PPG).

MJ has VASTLY superior 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats than Lebron - are you disputing this??

[imdaman99]

my bulls and spurs beat you guys up.
You're a joke. You are probably that retard kokock that roots for 14 teams and stans a beta. Why don't you stick to 1 nickname? You're a laughing stock on both accounts, so it wouldn't matter.

[Hey Yo]

PLAYOFF AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

Jordan: 35 PPG / 7 APG / 50% FG
Lebron: 28 PPG / 6 APG / 48% FG


FINALS AVERAGES THRU 30 YRS OLD:

Jordan: 36 PPG / 8 APG / 50% FG
Lebron: 24 PPG / 6 APG / 46% FG

Source: basketball-reference.com


So who cares if Lebron leads his team in assists, if MJ still got more assists than him... This was while scoring 25% more in the playoffs and 50% more in the Finals on better efficiency - indeed, Lebron needs 1.5 Finals games to match 1 Finals game from MJ (24 PPG to MJ's 36 PPG).

MJ has VASTLY superior 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats than Lebron - are you disputing this??
Quit deflecting and answer the questions!

What were Jordan's stats in route to his 4th straight Finals appearance? Did he lead his team in MP, points, rebounds, assists and steals?

What were his stats in the 1st and 2nd rounds in route to possibly his 5th straight Finals appearance?

[34-24 Footwork]

No one in the NBA believes that Lebron is more of a threat in clutch situations than Kobe, Carmelo, Durant, Dirk or Joe Johnson.

That ESPN graphic is funny as hell. I feel like there should be a difference between game winning layups and game winning jump shots, by the way. But I understand the agenda. Do you have any numbers on how many times lebron has dribbled the ball of his foot in the last 24 sec?

[Angel Face]

:oldlol: 10 seconds? What aout the times he turnover the ball on big possesions down the stretch under 30 seconds? The times he passed the supposed game winners and the big shots he missed because he's too chicken shit? Any stats on that? LeSPN :roll:

[Micku]

Just some data & stats news.... it doesnt mean anything more than that, i just find it notable/interesting Lebron made & took more gamewinning/gametying shots than Jordan in playoffs in less games, but then again he may also been put in more crucial last second gamewinning/gamelosing possession situations than Jordan, not compared to Kobe though (who played many more games than Jordan & took the most gw/gt shots under 10 secs.)...

Criteria:

With 10 secs or less left in 4th or OT, fieldgoal to take the lead or tie the game.

Lebron James -

1 shot to tie the game
7 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
11 missed

Total - 8 of 19 (42.1%) in 166 playoff games

Michael Jordan

Total - 7 of 15 (46.6%) in 179 playoff games.

Kobe Bryant -

2 shots to tie the game
3 shots to take the lead (gamewinners)
17 missed

Total - 5 of 22 (22.7%) in 220 playoff games.



Yeah, it depends on the criteria. There was an article a while back that stated MJ was 9/18 on game winning/game tying shots. They tried to do a comparison to Kobe and LBJ at the time, and they didn't really measure up.

http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/

This criteria is meant for the final 24 seconds than the final 10. It also goes with the intent to tie or win the game. The games are:
1985 Milwaukee Bucks Game 3 Make
1986 Boston Celtics Game 2 Miss
1989 Cleveland Cavaliers Game 4 Miss
1989 Cleveland Cavaliers Game 5 Make
1989 Cleveland Cavaliers Game 5 Make
1989 Detroit Pistons Game 3 Make
1991 Los Angeles Lakers Game 1 Miss
1991 Los Angeles Lakers Game 3 Make
1992 Portland Trail Blazers Game 2 Miss
1993 Cleveland Cavaliers Game 4 Make
1996 New York Knicks Game 3 Make
1996 New York Knicks Game 3 Miss
1997 Washington Wizards Game 3 Miss
1997 Utah Jazz Game 1 Make
1997 Utah Jazz Game 4 Miss
1998 Indian Pacers Game 4 Miss
1998 Utah Jazz Game 5 Miss
1998 Utah Jazz Game 6 Make

So...some of these don't count in the criteria that you are using. I would assume the 10 secs or less would be after the FG made/miss or before? If it's before, then the 1998 Jazz one won't count, right?

Regardless, it depends on the criteria that you use to make the claim that LBJ hit more game winning shots than MJ. If it's 10 secs, then some of those game winning shots won't count. Same goes with LBJ. I'm curious what is LBJ stats within the 24 sec mark.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/J_K/KobeoverLebrongamewinner_zpsd97ee867.gif (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/J_K/media/KobeoverLebrongamewinner_zpsd97ee867.gif.html)


game winner under 10 seconds

regular season

[sportjames23]

Lebron has now hit more GW shots in playoffs than Jordan


And yet, MJ has three times more rings than Lebron does.

Also, that shows that MJ didn't let his team get into the position of needing a GW shot as much as Lebron has.

[Mr Feeny]

http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e246/J_K/KobeoverLebrongamewinner_zpsd97ee867.gif (http://s40.photobucket.com/user/J_K/media/KobeoverLebrongamewinner_zpsd97ee867.gif.html)


game winner under 10 seconds

regular season

Good thing you added "regular season" in white texts. That's where Kobe gets to shine. We are dicussing the playoffs - where it really counts. Kobe is 7-28 in playoff potential game tying or game winning shots.

Putrid when it counts :applause:

[DJ Leon Smith]

The main thing we want to know is how many more flops Jordan has than LeBron. Probably hundreds right, someone should make a video highlighting this.

[riseagainst]

i wonder why they use 10 seconds here, but they used 24 seconds for the regular season.

Oh i know: Agenda.

[Taller than CP3]

2/5, soon to be 2/6

[pauk]

And yet, MJ has three times more rings than Lebron does.

Also, that shows that MJ didn't let his team get into the position of needing a GW shot as much as Lebron has.


The main thing we want to know is how many more flops Jordan has than LeBron. Probably hundreds right, someone should make a video highlighting this.


2/5, soon to be 2/6


If you have time to post this meaningless agenda driven garbage, where's that jordan flop video? :biggums:


Dumb thread.. :rolleyes:

Clutch isn't just game-winners - it's dominance in the 2nd half, 4th quarter, playoff and Finals..

Too bad we don't have stats for all these... Oh wait, we do... and MJ is #1 in all of them, by far.

Do we really want to start posting comparisons of MJ's 4th quarter, playoff and Finals stats compared to Lebron?.. MJ blows Lebron away in these areas.


In case anyone was wondering, this is the part pauk added to his post when he edited it.


:oldlol:

Good one pauk. Why did you even need to go back four minutes after you post to add this? If you truly are trying to just objectively present some data, then why did you feel the need to defend yourself?


because of pauk


Why is the cut off 10 seconds? :confusedshrug:


2 for 5.


Do you really have time for this Pauk?

Where is that Jordan flop compilation?


http://the305.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj.jpg


That's an amazing stat for someone playing in a historically weak eastern conference against no competition and while in Miami he would avoid them like plague.


Lebron have quantity in pretty much everything but the only thing that all that matters is quantity.



2\5




http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/of-course.gif

[pauk]

This forum is filled with lebron haters which is why the forum crashes when he loses a big game but stays perfectly fine when lebron wins a big game or makes a clutch play.

Things would be different if he played for a big market team like LA , NYC or Chicago. The funnies thing is that Knicks fans troll themselves daily just so they can talk shit about lebron. Blue&Orange's post above is a prime example of this.

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/this.gif

[Pointguard]

Jordan was so much different than other stars was that you felt wrecked if he had the ball near the end of the game against your team. But the real separator for me was that at the three minute mark he pretty much made sure the game was no longer close. Magic was the same way. Magic is the only one I have in the same tier as Jordan because of his great ability to get easy shots, control the game and make the shot himself (at least 7 game winners himself and at least to another 5 to Kareem and Worthy). Magic had 4 against all time great defensive teams (2 against Celtics, 1 Pistons, 1 Philly), One against Seattle which was a top defensive team, one against Denver, and I recall a big one against Houston as well. And 4 of these were three pointers as well. I am also sure Magic's percentage was better than the rest as well.

Lebron is great in that situation, he really has that knack. As, Dmavs said above, when he has to think that's when he gets in trouble.

[DonDadda59]

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/of-course.gif

Where are the flops?

[Magic 32]

Until I see all of these shots (misses and makes) I don't really care about these lists.

Kobe would take a shot from midcourt with 0.6 seconds left (and thanks to Luke Walton and Lamar Odom's inept inbound passes he has done this many times).

Lebron avoids those shots like the plague. He loves to pass difficult shots to his roleplayers.

Yesterday was some kind of breakthrough for Lebron, but it will hurt his clutch stats in the long run .

[sd3035]

He has also failed, flopped, colluded, taken more emo selfies, and had his mom banged by more NBA players than Jordan

[Ca$H]

I want to give LeBron a rimjob and drink his diarrhea like a chocolate milkshake.

:biggums:

[branslowski]

So if your team is down 1 and I hit a 3 with 11 secs left then im not cluth?

How bout just lead ya team to titles and be clutch for the whole game and end wit 5 rings?

[Lebron23]

Lebron surpassed Jordan in game winners in 2015.

[kawhileonard2]

He also surpassed him in HCA losses in 2009 and bronze medals in 2004.

[TheGoatest]

He also surpassed him in HCA losses in 2009 and bronze medals in 2004.

Needs 4 first round exits to surpass him in those though.

[SATAN]

Needs 4 first round exits to surpass him in those though.

:yaohappy:

[Axe]

Longevity definitely helps for that.

[kawhileonard2]

Needs 4 first round exits to surpass him in those though.

He missed the playoffs already 3x as well. And couldn't even win with Shaq all while Wade and Kobe won with Shaq and this when Shaq had 3x Finals MVP's and a league MVP. Also didn't embarrass America by bringing home bronze medals twice.

[LAmbruh]

https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlQ7LRalQqdWfao/giphy.gif

[TheCorporation]

Longevity definitely helps for that.

No

LBJ actually passed MJ using fewer playoff runs

[kawhileonard2]

He missed the playoffs already 3x as well. And couldn't even win with Shaq all while Wade and Kobe won with Shaq and this when Shaq had 3x Finals MVP's and a league MVP. Also didn't embarrass America by bringing home bronze medals twice.

:bowdown: