Most effective signature move of this generation?

[the_troof]

There have been a number of players with nasty signature moves throughout this generation.. who's had the most effective one?

Pierce step back?
Dirk post fade?
Lebron hgh drive to rim (with unnecessary and-1)?
Kobe high post fade?
Manu euro step?
Duncan bank shot?
AI crossover?

which one of these moves (or any others you decide to add) was/is the most effective throughout a players career?

[SCdac]

Duncan and Shaq's post moves in general. not quite a signature move but the most effective

[Bernkastel]

NBA's ref-step.

[Yoshi]

There have been a number of players with nasty signature moves throughout this generation.. who's had the most effective one?

Pierce step back?
Dirk post fade?
Lebron hgh drive to rim (with unnecessary and-1)?
Kobe high post fade?
Manu euro step?
Duncan bank shot?
AI crossover?

which one of these moves (or any others you decide to add) was/is the most effective throughout a players career?

I found the agenda. What do I win?

[riseagainst]

the kobe assist

[Ramza]

Ref whistle blow.

[scm5]

Shaq's drop step

[Ai2death]

It would have to be the Dirk one foot turnaround. Other players have nicer moves but i've seen Dirk win entire games with just that one move

[ISHGoat]

gotta be the kobe assist

[StephHamann]

James Harden with the powerflop
https://i.na.cx/51sdt6.gif

[ImKobe]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3167276/kobe-fadeaway-on-lebron-o.gif

[scm5]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3167276/kobe-fadeaway-on-lebron-o.gif

i think that's gotta be the most beautiful signature move of this generation and one of the most effective, but idk how you would top Shaq's drop step.

That thing was devastating.

[Haymaker]

The Flop.

[TheMan]

The LeFlop.

fixed

Honorable mention, the LeCrab dribble, epic travel, never get's called :bowdown:

[Magic 32]

http://i.giflike.com/GMIBOt4.gif

Lebron's reverse cheerleader.

Pure artistry.

[r15mohd]

i think that's gotta be the most beautiful signature move of this generation and one of the most effective, but idk how you would top Shaq's drop step.

That thing was devastating.

it's MJ's move :no:

[SwayDizzle]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3167276/kobe-fadeaway-on-lebron-o.gif
Kobe is so frikin strong. he bullied Bronze in the post :wtf:

[Magic 32]

it's MJ's move :no:

Everyone steals from their idols.

http://media.giphy.com/media/RkMFWDyoDtvgs/giphy.gif

[r15mohd]

Everyone steals from their idols.

http://media.giphy.com/media/RkMFWDyoDtvgs/giphy.gif


you don't even know the guy you waste endless energy over stanning day in/out :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

"The number one player to me, my greatest idol, is that guy right there, Oscar.

[3ball]

Kobe is so frikin strong. he bullied Bronze in the post :wtf:
Scoring on Lebron is not a big deal - everyone drops off Lebron, from Gordon Hayward to old man Paul Pierce..

But it's still plenty of fun watching Kobe do it, because he looks a little like MJ would look - here's a video of Kobe scoring on Lebron at will:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABKg2azkp0

Just think what the more athletic, skilled, and mentally stronger MJ would do to slow-footed Lebron... yikes

[Jailblazers7]

Dirk fade is my pick. Hard to call Shaq doing a drop step a "move" and Duncan didn't really have a signature move.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan and Shaq's post moves in general. not quite a signature move but the most effective

Stop putting Duncan on the Shaq level of offense.

Duncan's post game has no place in a discussion on the signature move of this generation.

And you know I love Duncan and his game...perhaps more than anyone on this forum.

But just no...his offense / post game is just nowhere near as good as you think it was based on some of the posts I've seen you make recently.

Shaq drop step dunk
Kobe wing post fade
Lebron one handed flying dunks
Dirk one legged fades

The Duncan bank and Wade euro deserve honorable mention.

Are the signature moves of this era. As for the most effective one? Clearly Shaq...not only from an unstoppable angle, but from a...it changes everything a team is trying to do on defense angle.

[3ball]

the stand-still, catch-and-shoot 3-pointer after a drive-and-kick is the signature move of this generation..

realtalk

[TheBigVeto]

Wade's flop.

[Kvnzhangyay]

Scoring on Lebron is not a big deal - everyone drops off Lebron, from Gordon Hayward to old man Paul Pierce..

But it's still plenty of fun watching Kobe do it, because he looks a little like MJ would look - here's a video of Kobe scoring on Lebron at will:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JABKg2azkp0

Just think what the more athletic, skilled, and mentally stronger MJ would do to slow-footed Lebron... yikes

huh? Kobe has shot 42% vs Lebron in their matchups

[Mr. Jabbar]

the lebron phone call

[MP.Trey]

Durant's rip through caused the league to change the rules about it since he was so dominant at it. :bowdown:

[Jailblazers7]

Stop putting Duncan on the Shaq level of offense.

Duncan's post game has no place in a discussion on the signature move of this generation.

And you know I love Duncan and his game...perhaps more than anyone on this forum.

But just no...his offense / post game is just nowhere near as good as you think it was based on some of the posts I've seen you make recently.

Shaq drop step dunk
Kobe wing post fade
Lebron one handed flying dunks
Dirk one legged fades

Are the signature moves of this era. As for the most effective one? Clearly Shaq...not only from an unstoppable angle, but from a...it changes everything a team is trying to do on defense angle.

It pretty much changed the entire league too with the 7 foot stiffs that people were drafting in the hopes that they could slow Shaq down even a tiny bit.

[HylianNightmare]

Melos 35 foot heat check

[sd3035]

http://i.giflike.com/GMIBOt4.gif

Lebron's reverse cheerleader.

Pure artistry.


Lol that's the most impressive flop I've ever seen. He risked near death to complete the flop instead of bracing his fall

[Angel Face]

http://i.giflike.com/GMIBOt4.gif

Lebron's reverse cheerleader.

Pure artistry.

:wtf: he managed to flop that? Truly an ATG flopper! :applause:

[G0ATbe]

Obviously kobe's fadeaway is GOAT.

But also his signature Kobeast block:bowdown:
https://33.media.tumblr.com/fa4679d7a9679f0b29fa4c5028c3e7d4/tumblr_n14euzsAHI1qcmnsoo3_400.gif
http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/2254892/kobe-block-jordan-mad-o.gif

[305Baller]

The Weak-east stat stuffer.

[Micku]

James Harden with the powerflop
https://i.na.cx/51sdt6.gif

This for the regular season. It doesn't work in the playoffs as much tho.

And for the list, I would have to say LBJ drive to the rim since he's soo good at it. That and the Dirk fade away. Ppl are stealing his kick fadeaway move and it's very effective.

[SCdac]

Stop putting Duncan on the Shaq level of offense.

Duncan's post game has no place in a discussion on the signature move of this generation.

And you know I love Duncan and his game...perhaps more than anyone on this forum.

But just no...his offense / post game is just nowhere near as good as you think it was based on some of the posts I've seen you make recently.


Duncan has had huuuge series against Shaq's Lakers, went H2H against prime Shaq and has both lost and beaten him / his Lakers.

You're getting caught up in the "signature move" aspect of this thread, which is fine, but you're also starting to bleed into the "his offense is just nowhere near as good..." stance, which I don't agree with at all based on TD's history.

I've heard you say that Duncan was a "beast" before, and he was, on offense and defense. Prime Duncan was dominant offensively and it took whole defenses to stop him. Have the reason Kerr traded Amare for Shaq was to stand up to Duncan and the Spurs.

some select/better series in TD's prime:

99 playoffs vs. Lakers:

29 ppg / .80 FT% / .51 FG%

02 playoffs vs. Lakers:

29 ppg / .77 FT% / .43 FG%

03 playoffs vs. Lakers:

28 ppg / .70 FT% / .53 FG%

05 playoffs vs. Suns (w/ high scoring Amare):

27 ppg / .75 FT% / .53 FG%

06 playoffs vs. Mavs:

32 ppg / .73 FT% / .56 FG%

Look, I'm not saying he's the best offensive big man ever, but from this era? He's absolutely up there with Shaq, KG, and Dirk. I wonder if you're so devout in disagreeing with me in particular (it rings throughout your responses) that you're actually underrating Duncan's offense - an offense which was stellar and helped make him a superstar and back-to-back MVP.

Prime Duncan would be far and away the MVP of the league today - and yes his elite offense would be a huge factor.

[DMAVS41]

Duncan has had huuuge series against Shaq's Lakers, went H2H against prime Shaq and has both lost and beaten him / his Lakers.

You're getting caught up in the "signature move" aspect of this thread, which is fine, but you're also starting to bleed into the "his offense is just nowhere near as good..." stance, which I don't agree with at all based on TD's history.

I've heard you say that Duncan was a "beast" before, and he was, on offense and defense. Prime Duncan was dominant offensively and it took whole defenses to stop him. Have the reason Kerr traded Amare for Shaq was to stand up to Duncan and the Spurs.

some select/better series in TD's prime:

99 playoffs vs. Lakers:

29 ppg / .80 FT% / .51 FG%

02 playoffs vs. Lakers:

29 ppg / .77 FT% / .43 FG%

03 playoffs vs. Lakers:

28 ppg / .70 FT% / .53 FG%

05 playoffs vs. Suns (w/ high scoring Amare):

27 ppg / .75 FT% / .53 FG%

Look, I'm not saying he's the best offensive big man ever, but from this era? He's absolutely up there with Shaq, KG, and Dirk. I wonder if you're so devout in disagreeing with me in particular (it rings throughout your responses) that you're actually underrating Duncan's offense - an offense which was stellar and helped make him a superstar and back-to-back MVP.

Prime Duncan would be far and away the MVP of the league today - and yes his elite offense would be a huge factor.


A few things:

1. By no means am I saying Duncan wasn't a beast on offense. I have made that absolutely clear and it's a total straw man to act like I'm not giving Duncan credit for his offense. He's just not as good as you say. Not even really an opinion. You'll find virtually no objective data offensively that would lead one to believe Duncan was better than Dirk or Shaq offensively.

2. He's just not as good of an offensive force as Shaq/Dirk...he's better than KG in my opinion because of his superior post game....at least in the playoffs. KG's offense at times in the regular season reached levels I don't think Duncan's ever really did, but not sure it was repeatable in the playoffs the way the games are played. I think that is our difference...you view Shaq/KG/Dirk/Duncan all on the same tier on offense. I don't.

3. It has nothing to do with you. You just happen to say something I disagree with. You just aren't going to find really much evidence that supports Duncan being a better offensive force than Dirk or Shaq. Go ahead and look. You'll see inferior rapm numbers on offense, inferior scoring efficiency, I know inferior offensive ratings compared to Dirk...at some point your opinions need to conform to the evidence.

Again, not saying Duncan wasn't a really good offensive player. He just wasn't Dirk or Shaq on offense. He was a better player than both of them in my opinion, but not better on offense.

[tpols]

lol @ mentioning duncan on offense.. a pure in the flow opportunistic scorer whose never taken over a game with dominant scoring in his life.

Dirk's midrange fade is probably most unstoppable because of the accuracy, height, positioning etc. just one unstoppable move he works around besides screening and spotting up.

Kobe's fadeaway was just as unstoppable but more prone to cold streak or overdoing it.

And maybe.. AI's crossover?

Shaq, bron, wade, etc didnt really have one move they dominated with.. they just beasted athletically.

[bobopenguin]

http://s17.postimg.org/6v000zjod/output_LBI5_Uo.gif

at alternative universe.

[Hit_Em]

LeBron's sick hesitation dribble.Very underrated.The King just backs up hits you with a hesi and vroooooooooooooooom he's right by you.

#allin #10moregames #lebronfamily

[Duggrr]

the lebron phone call
:roll:

[edrick]

The Lebron hater salt train up in here.

The best move was clearly the crab dribble.

[Miyagi]

hate the spurs, but Timmys 15 foot bank is most certain a signature move.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

Stop putting Duncan on the Shaq level of offense.

Duncan's post game has no place in a discussion on the signature move of this generation.

And you know I love Duncan and his game...perhaps more than anyone on this forum.

But just no...his offense / post game is just nowhere near as good as you think it was based on some of the posts I've seen you make recently.

Shaq drop step dunk
Kobe wing post fade
Lebron one handed flying dunks
Dirk one legged fades

The Duncan bank and Wade euro deserve honorable mention.

Are the signature moves of this era. As for the most effective one? Clearly Shaq...not only from an unstoppable angle, but from a...it changes everything a team is trying to do on defense angle.
Manus Euro>>> Wades

[Swaggin916]

Floaters.

That is all.

[Pointguard]

Durant's shot is overlooked here.

Dirks shot.

AI's crossover was the most influential move.

Kyrie's spin move

Tony Parker's floater was the most influential shot.

[TheMarkMadsen]

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/3167276/kobe-fadeaway-on-lebron-o.gif


:kobe: :yaohappy:

[24-Inch_Chrome]

lol @ mentioning duncan on offense.. a pure in the flow opportunistic scorer whose never taken over a game with dominant scoring in his life.



If you weren't a Kobe stan then this would be a surprisingly stupid post. It's still stupid, just isn't a surprise.

Prime Duncan had the ability to take over a game whether you want to admit it or not. I won't even waste my time arguing the point; unless you're completely internet-illiterate there's more than enough evidence of Duncan's dominant postseason scoring performances.

[DonDadda59]

James Harden with the powerflop
https://i.na.cx/51sdt6.gif

Watching that shit live was disgusting. This bearded clown doesn't even look to score. He just threw the ball in the air and did a little cheerleader routine when he wasn't even touched then had the nerve to look at the ref like something happened.

:facepalm

[3ball]

lol @ mentioning duncan on offense.. a pure in the flow opportunistic scorer whose never taken over a game with dominant scoring in his life.


Duncan absolutely dominated offensively in his prime - you could run your entire offense through him on the block.

See the 1999 Finals - he averaged 27.4 PPG in a series that had an 86 pace and Spurs only averaged 85 PPG.. He did a similar thing in the 2003 Finals and he took over tons of playoff series with dominant post play.

[34-24 Footwork]

Stiff arm/crab dribble

[AirFederer]

http://notsportscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LeBronMavsFlop.gif

[KayHaven]

Wade's pumpfake>>>>>

But Harden's arm flail drives are right there...

[34-24 Footwork]

http://notsportscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LeBronMavsFlop.gif



:biggums: :facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

c'mon guys.. no other move has shaped the nba landscape, specially the eastern conference as the lebron phone call.

[smoovegittar]

The Flop.
:applause:

[Cleverness]

The Flop.


Wade's flop.

unfortunately, yes...
Harden
cp3 https://vid.me/wBxu
blake griffin loves to fall on the ground A LOT
and wade/LeBron screamed A LOT for fouls

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Duncan absolutely dominated offensively in his prime - you could run your entire offense through him on the block.

See the 1999 Finals - he averaged 27.4 PPG in a series that had an 86 pace and Spurs only averaged 85 PPG.. He did a similar thing in the 2003 Finals and he took over tons of playoff series with dominant post play.

:applause::

[nzahir]

http://www.vibe.com/sites/vibe.com/files/images/shaq-vs-kobe-7.jpg

[Nuff Said]

gotta say that wade pump fake..gets em everytime

[kennethgriffin]

kobe bryant mid range jumper


best/most counted on and most successful move of the 2000's

it was a shot kobe could get every single time up the floor. and he hit a better percentage than anyone from 15-18 feet... especially on contested looks


it was the main go to move that won 5 titles and made 7 finals in a decade...

and nobody knows how to do it successfully anymore


lebron still cant do it correctly even after 12 years

[kennethgriffin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gjQfDbUWbzU

[PJR]

https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/5492ff516bb3f77e07bd4e88/dwyane%20wade%20eurostep%20kg.gif

[riseagainst]

http://notsportscenter.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/LeBronMavsFlop.gif


:lol

[kennethgriffin]

https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/5492ff516bb3f77e07bd4e88/dwyane%20wade%20eurostep%20kg.gif


that move is strictly an open court opportunity


kobes go to moves are available 24/7

[PJR]

that move is strictly an open court opportunity


kobes go to moves are available 24/7

http://i.imgur.com/fjhGlM9.gif

Come again?

[ShawkFactory]

http://i.imgur.com/fjhGlM9.gif

Come again?
Beautiful

[Wade's Rings]

Dwyane Wade's Euro Step


https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/5492ff516bb3f77e07bd4e88/dwyane%20wade%20eurostep%20kg.gif


http://i.imgur.com/fjhGlM9.gif

Come again?

:bowdown:

[HOoopCityJones]

Wade's eurostep is king, I'm sorry.


I'll still take Kobe's fadeaway though.

[Pointguard]

When I think of signature moves its something I expect to see kids in the park trying to do in the park after the games went off. I think the sky hook and Dirk's shot might be hard to pull off without a lot of grace and balance. Most people aren't 7 foot dorks that can transform to graceful once a ball gets in their hands. I think Duncan was a great offensive force once the playoffs hit, but he was dorky even with the ball in his hands. I don't think signature move with him at all, unless you hang out with mummies.

I was looking at draft videos and the most imitated guys coming up are Ginobli (slither move with uneven steps) and Rose (staccato crossover and floater) both of which I see guys in the park/gym doing as well.

[T_L_P]

Duncan absolutely dominated offensively in his prime - you could run your entire offense through him on the block.

See the 1999 Finals - he averaged 27.4 PPG in a series that had an 86 pace and Spurs only averaged 85 PPG.. He did a similar thing in the 2003 Finals and he took over tons of playoff series with dominant post play.

That rat poison. :bowdown:

[ClipperRevival]

https://static-ssl.businessinsider.com/image/5492ff516bb3f77e07bd4e88/dwyane%20wade%20eurostep%20kg.gif

Smoothest player I have ever seen. Every move he made was under control and so smooth. The guy was so skilled.

[tpols]

Duncan absolutely dominated offensively in his prime - you could run your entire offense through him on the block.

See the 1999 Finals - he averaged 27.4 PPG in a series that had an 86 pace and Spurs only averaged 85 PPG.. He did a similar thing in the 2003 Finals and he took over tons of playoff series with dominant post play.

You mean against the 8 seeded Knicks minus their center ? lol

and 27 ppg doesn't mean anything. Karl malone could get you 27 easy.. so could drob.. or early dwight. I would take 20 ppg from dirk over 27 ppg from duncan because I know I can count on dirks points to come at important times and to also come in chunks. Not a basket here a basket there.. I know dirk can get me scoring at any time in any position And also be able to leverage his ability against the defense to space the floor for his teammates when he's not taking over directly.

[Papaya Petee]

Manus Euro>>> Wades
Lol no. Not even close.

The Euro step Wade pulled on Garnett in 2011 ECSF was GOAT euro step.

Not to mention Wade uses the euro step a lot more than Manu. Wade was living off of drives averaging 30,27,27,27,26 PPG seasons. You saw euro step every game from Wade

[kshutts1]

I could be wrong, but I'm 99% sure the NBA literally changed the rules to accommodate Shaq's drop-step.

[SCdac]

... I would take 20 ppg from dirk over 27 ppg from duncan...

:roll:

A mindless Kobe stan would take 20 points on lesser efficiency, and from further away from the basket, than 27 ppg from the greatest power forward of all time on higher efficiency. I don't normally resort to name calling, but dude that's idiotic. It's not a sound decision basketball-wise. We're talking about somebody who lead the Spurs offensively for 4 championships and a key cog for a fifth and was a best offensively (anybody with eyes witnessed it).

[BuffaloBill]

lol @ mentioning duncan on offense.. a pure in the flow opportunistic scorer whose never taken over a game with dominant scoring in his life.


:wtf: Surely you jest.



It's unfortunate how many people there are here who never watched Duncan play in his prime.

[DMAVS41]

:roll:

A mindless Kobe stan would take 20 points on lesser efficiency, and from further away from the basket, than 27 ppg from the greatest power forward of all time on higher efficiency. I don't normally resort to name calling, but dude that's idiotic. It's not a sound decision basketball-wise. We're talking about somebody who lead the Spurs offensively for 4 championships and a key cog for a fifth and was a best offensively (anybody with eyes witnessed it).

Duncan is far less efficient than Dirk on offense though. So where are you getting more efficient?

And the further away from the basket thing is a positive... Not a negative. Not sure what you are talking about here.

[SCdac]

Duncan absolutely dominated offensively in his prime - you could run your entire offense through him on the block.

See the 1999 Finals - he averaged 27.4 PPG in a series that had an 86 pace and Spurs only averaged 85 PPG.. He did a similar thing in the 2003 Finals and he took over tons of playoff series with dominant post play.

Agreed. These people have no idea what they're talking about at best or at worst willfully forgetting for the sake of fawning over advanced stats or what seems most 'aesthetically pleasing'.

Duncan dropped 50+ points on the Mavs one time (what other PF's have done that to them in this era?). In like his 3rd season he dropped 46 points on Karl Malone's Jazz. Went toe to toe with prime Shaq numerous times. Has huge scoring series for a very slow paced team - and Duncan wasn't selfish either. And he didn't need three's to be a dangerous scorer, he'd score in your face, in the paint, high percentage buckets. In his prime he dunked significantly more than he does now and has always had midrange capability. His scoring for his position is multiple-championship, All-NBA teams, HOF calibre... not just "really good" as some would put it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HgUQWV1H3aA

The Spurs offense for the longest time was... "dump the ball into Timmy"

[tpols]

:roll:

A mindless Kobe stan would take 20 points on lesser efficiency, and from further away from the basket, than 27 ppg from the greatest power forward of all time on higher efficiency. I don't normally resort to name calling, but dude that's idiotic. It's not a sound decision basketball-wise. We're talking about somebody who lead the Spurs offensively for 4 championships and a key cog for a fifth and was a best offensively (anybody with eyes witnessed it).

I hate to break it to you man.. but duncan hasn't led anything offensively in over a decade. And before that.. spurs were winning with tough grind it out defense mostly.

From 2000 to 2014 duncan's offensive rapm was a 2.0.

Manus was like a 6 and Parker's was higher as well. Manu was the mid 2000s spurs closer, parker late 2000s and most recently kawhi has been the Spurs takeover player. It isn't even debateable that prime manu was twice the offensive force duncan was..

duncan belongs nowhere near this discussion of atg offense.

[SCdac]

Duncan is far less efficient than Dirk on offense though. So where are you getting more efficient?

And the further away from the basket thing is a positive... Not a negative. Not sure what you are talking about here.

What's generally a higher percentage shot, a slam dunk/lay up or a three pointer? ... I'm gonna venture to say we have fundamentally different views of 'value per position' and what winning basketball generally entails on a micro and macro level. Which in many ways is normal, you're a Dirk stan so obviously you're enamored by stretch-4's and three pointers. I'm not a Duncan stan however, I just recognize greatness when I see it. Duncan is the GOAT PF and not just because of defense. He was a force offensively, it's undeniable.

[DMAVS41]

I hate to break it to you man.. but duncan hasn't led anything offensively in over a decade. And before that.. spurs were winning with tough grind it out defense mostly.

From 2000 to 2014 duncan's offensive rapm was a 2.0.

Manus was like a 6 and Parker's was higher as well. Manu was the mid 2000s spurs closer, parker late 2000s and most recently kawhi has been the Spurs takeover player. It isn't even debateable that prime manu was twice the offensive force duncan was..

duncan belongs nowhere near this discussion of atg offense.

While I'm not nearly as low on Duncan offensively.... tpols is closer to the truth than someone putting Duncan above Dirk and even with Shaq offensively.

Thank god for objective measures that cut through bias.

[r15mohd]

gonna go with the one which the NBA had to apply the rule change too:

-AI's killer crossover


then there's Shaq's dropstep, Wade's eurostep...now it's KD's FT move, the swing through or whatever you call it

[DMAVS41]

What's generally a higher percentage shot, a slam dunk/lay up or a three pointer? ... I'm gonna venture to say we have fundamentally different views of 'value per position' and what winning basketball generally entails on a micro and macro level. Which in many ways is normal, you're a Dirk stan so obviously you're enamored by stretch-4's and three pointers. I'm not a Duncan stan however, I just recognize greatness when I see it. Duncan is the GOAT PF and not just because of defense. He was a force offensively, it's undeniable.

Dirk is more efficient than Duncan on offense. It's a fact... Not an opinion.

It's also a fact that Dirk's range shooting combined with his post game and elite ft shooting opened things up for his teammates and put defenses in tougher spots than Duncan's traditional post/elbow game did.

LOL... You are coming off horribly here and are a giant Duncan Stan....and continue to straw man my argument.

I'll say it again for you...Duncan was a beast on offense... He just wasn't as good as Dirk or Shaq. Sorry....

Telling me I don't recognize the greatness of a player I rank higher than you all time and have repeatedly called a beast and force on offense. But yea... I'm a hater because I don't pretend Duncan was better than he actually was offensively.


Please provide some evidence...

[SCdac]

From 2000 to 2014 duncan's offensive rapm was a 2.0.

Are cherry picked advanced stats like this really supposed to mean something outside of statistical rankings though (i.e., fantasy basketball, where a great player like Shaq or Dwight Howard can get picked in the 2nd or 3rd round based on stats alone, and a player like Shawn Marion was literally going #1 in the mid-2000s based on his statistical versatility)? It's not a replacement for actually watching the games and watching Tim Duncan in his prime go up against Shaq, Malone, Garnett, Wallace's, Dirk, etc... and win multiple championships as the offensive leader.. Boxscore watching isn't a replacement. and yes, I have been watching Duncan... he was probably the best Spur this season in the playoffs at age 39 :bowdown:

[SCdac]

Dirk is more efficient than Duncan on offense. It's a fact... Not an opinion.

It's also a fact that Dirk's range shooting combined with his post game and elite ft shooting opened things up for his teammates and put defenses in tougher spots than Duncan's traditional post/elbow game did.

LOL... You are coming off horribly here and are a giant Duncan Stan....and continue to straw man my argument.

I'll say it again for you...Duncan was a beast on offense... He just wasn't as good as Dirk or Shaq. Sorry....

I'll ask again, what's generally a higher percentage basket a dunk/layup or a three pointer?

[DMAVS41]

I'll ask again, what's generally a higher percentage basket a dunk/layup or a three pointer?

Why generally? This is Dirk... He's not a "generally" type player.

Terrible question, but you already know that.

The real question is who scored more, more efficiently, more clutch, better at the line, and caused more problems for defenses.

And that would clearly be Dirk.

Where is your evidence?????

[r15mohd]

Why generally? This is Dirk... He's not a "generally" type player.

Terrible question, but you already know that.

The real question is who scored more, more efficiently, more clutch, better at the line, and caused more problems for defenses.

And that would clearly be Dirk.

Where is your evidence?????


hard to go against 15yrs of dominance with TD...Dirk is exciting, but the further away, the bigger the risk, as SCdac mentioned. if Dirk was so significantly greater, the Mavs would have much more success than they do now, especially when compared to the Spurs

[DMAVS41]

hard to go against 15yrs of dominance with TD...Dirk is exciting, but the further away, the bigger the risk, as SCdac mentioned. if Dirk was so significantly greater, the Mavs would have much more success than they do now, especially when compared to the Spurs

We are talking offense only.

Duncan is my 4th best player and Dirk is not in my top 10.

Further away the bigger risk has no meaning here. Dirk was factually a more efficient offensive player. Do you guys not get this?

He scored more and more efficiently... Was better in crunch time and caused more problems for opposing defenses with his vastly more versatile offense.

LOL

Seriously... Go take a look.

You will find Dirk scoring more, more efficiently, in more ways, better in the clutch, better on game winning situations...you will see a superior rapm (way better than biased eye tests) and a better offensive rating. There really isn't much left, but the nail in the coffin is the far superior off ball impact Dirk had. He'd routinely get doubled/trapped 28 feet from the basket with and without the ball. That off ball impact is enormous and doesn't even show up in individual measures.

[Legends66NBA7]

Shaq's elbow is the most dominating signature move of all-time.

Shame it took 6 pages and post 89 to get a mention.